density altitude was 3700ft.....ouch.


first run, 18psi, blew the launch, 2.0 60'....only went 13.3@104.2, pump gas. needless to say I'm pretty ****ty right now. I did everything right this time. got a fmic, got a dyno tune, laid down good numbers. granted I wasn't driving for crap, but I only picked up 20mph between the 1/8th and the 1/4. Anyone have any ideas?

Learn to drive your crapbox down the track. ;) You've got more power on pump gas then any of us did when we were running mid to low 12s.

Originally posted by nmyeti
Learn to drive your crapbox down the track. ;) You've got more power on pump gas then any of us did when we were running mid to low 12s.


I don't understand then why it didn't pick up much mph in the big end, and why the trap was so low period?



I tried to launch it really hard the second pass .. but a crunching metal noise encouraged me to let off .. first gear was still attached so I decided to get back in it. 2.4 60's rock.


I turned the boost up on the second pass to 20-21psi, it actually made the same 1/8th speeds as the other run ..83/84 mph, but I had to let off going in the middleish of third because it wouldn't stop detonating .. coasted the rest of the way to a 14.1@81

How much power did you lay down? Don't worry man, if you makes you feel any better, when I bogged the launch and hit a 2.1 60', I went 13.5 @ 108. Then the next run I spun like crazy and hit a 1.84 60' and hit 12.6 @ 110. I'm only going 21-22mph in the big end.. trapping 88-89mph. I'm going to try to tune out the midrange and add some timing and see what happens.

Originally posted by Big Turkey
How much power did you lay down? Don't worry man, if you makes you feel any better, when I bogged the launch and hit a 2.1 60', I went 13.5 @ 108. Then the next run I spun like crazy and hit a 1.84 60' and hit 12.6 @ 110. I'm going to try to tune out the midrange and add some timing and see what happens.



320/277 on pump gas. But I don't remember what boost that was at....car is acting weird and detonating on anything past 19ish it seems.

I still don't understand why you would run on the first map with HIGHER boost on your second pass if you were getting some detonation on the FIRST run. Switch to the map #2 which is 1 degree lower, and then start working the boost.

Then again, pump gas is gay. Your car really didn't want to make much power on pump gas (320 at 21-22psi, but I don't remember) and wouldn't take any timing at that level. On race fuel we still didn't get to run any timing and we had to run a lot of boost to get it to lay down any power.

Why is your car still slow? I don't know... could it be that we had one of the hottest days of the year yesterday, and it was so humid you could see the haze over the area? I don't know. Could it be that you are having driver related issue? I don't know. Could it be that your tune sucks? Ya, I guess it could be that.

I still think you have to use your map switch. There is NO point in turning the boost up to 20psi if you were getting CEL flickers on 18psi.

As for 20mph on the back end, I have to wonder about your 3-4 shift. Any time you spend coasting (shifting) you are not accelerating. Even with your trap speed as low as it is, if your shifting was on, you’d still be running a better ET.

-Nathan

Originally posted by nmyeti
Learn to drive your crapbox down the track. ;)

^ what he said.

Elevation is relative. The track I race at is 4500ft.

I ran a 13.3@105 with a 2.0 60'. And a 13.2@103 with 1.8 60ft hitting fuel cut in 4th. And I only have an 18G.

You need to launch better man. You are not going to get a good time driving like crap. You have to drive the car into the 12's man. Its not going to do it for you.

:lol:

BTW My car was tuned to 280WHP with a VF23. Its not been tuned since I added the 18G. So your car should be faster than mine.

Nathan, what's the typical mph gain in the back half with a 20g or Green?

Originally posted by nmyeti
I still don't understand why you would run on the first map with HIGHER boost on your second pass if you were getting some detonation on the FIRST run. Switch to the map #2 which is 1 degree lower, and then start working the boost.


As I explained to someone else already -- they misheard me. I did not have any detonation on 18psi. Why did I give 20psi a try? Because I was running sunoco 94 vs random gas station 93.



Then again, pump gas is gay.


Yes thats true. But I drive around on pump gas 99% of the time, and I would like to see what it would do.



Your car really didn't want to make much power on pump gas (320 at 21-22psi, but I don't remember) and wouldn't take any timing at that level. On race fuel we still didn't get to run any timing and we had to run a lot of boost to get it to lay down any power.


It was a pain yes.






Why is your car still slow? I don't know... could it be that we had one of the hottest days of the year yesterday, and it was so humid you could see the haze over the area? I don't know. Could it be that you are having driver related issue? I don't know. Could it be that your tune sucks? Ya, I guess it could be that.


Quit getting all defensive.



I still think you have to use your map switch. There is NO point in turning the boost up to 20psi if you were getting CEL flickers on 18psi.


STA.


As for 20mph on the back end, I have to wonder about your 3-4 shift. Any time you spend coasting (shifting) you are not accelerating. Even with your trap speed as low as it is, if your shifting was on, you’d still be running a better ET.

-Nathan

Doug was there -- said they sounded fine.

Mikaust's 18G with 8cm housing on a crappy launch will pick up almost 30 mph from the 8th to the 1/4. Thats a custom c16 tune however.

My set-up, although VERY different, put out similiar #'s on c16 as Bryan's does on pump, 320 whp/270 something wtq.

My best trap 115.2 on an RA gearbox, 114.6 with a stock gearbox. 8th mile- 90.8 on the RA, 91.5 on the stock box.

I was doing 111-113 on pump and also with crappy launches. My pump tune is down 10 whp vs my race gas tune (maxed out turbo).

His shifts seemed fine from my perspective... but I guess thats a hard sale.

def

The weather sucked, I think that is the main factor here. And 2.0 60 ft's, hell I could write a best selling novel about 2.0 - 60ft's :lol: Michael

Originally posted by mikaust
The weather sucked, I think that is the main factor here. And 2.0 60 ft's, hell I could write a best selling novel about 2.0 - 60ft's :lol: Michael


:lol:

even off LC i couldn't get it right

Originally posted by dug-e-fresh
Mikaust's 18G with 8cm housing on a crappy launch will pick up almost 30 mph from the 8th to the 1/4. Thats a custom c16 tune however.

My set-up, although VERY different, put out similiar #'s on c16 as Bryan's does on pump, 320 whp/270 something wtq.

My best trap 115.2 on an RA gearbox, 114.6 with a stock gearbox. 8th mile- 90.8 on the RA, 91.5 on the stock box.

I was doing 111-113 on pump and also with crappy launches. My pump tune is down 10 whp vs my race gas tune (maxed out turbo).

His shifts seemed fine from my perspective... but I guess thats a hard sale.

def
Doug,
Your car however has a better power under the curve than his which can't really be compared.

Hot day, lower boost than tuned for, he was clearly down on power. But 2.0 to 2.4 60ft. Doesn't make anything any better.

Driving with a laggy turbo doesn't make it any easier to drive. You are making more power but with a narrow power band. With stock wrx gearing and rev limit, if you botch your 1-2 and fall out of the power band you can forget about it. Especially when you have narrowed your power band with a turbo that has more lag and lower wheel torque down low.

IMHO, if conditions are right power will be their, it's all up to learning how to drive it correctly. I wish I had more seat time under my 20g.

Jermaine~
www.turboxs.com

Originally posted by dug-e-fresh
My best trap 115.2 on an RA gearbox, 114.6 with a stock gearbox. 8th mile- 90.8 on the RA, 91.5 on the stock box.


So you picked up less than 1 mph on the RA box? I thought most people picked up 2-3. If that is so, I am scratching the whole RA box idea.

Originally posted by illspace
So you picked up less than 1 mph on the RA box? I thought most people picked up 2-3. If that is so, I am scratching the whole RA box idea.

You don't have his power band or rev limit, if you have stock wrx heads.

Jermaine~

The RA gearbox pulls harder in EVERY gear other than 1st. Comparing the RA 1st to the WRX 1st, theres a HUGE difference.

Be interesting to run a hybrid WRX 1st gear, RA 2-5th... best of both worlds perhaps. That is until 1st gear let go...

Doug,
Your car however has a better power under the curve than his which can't really be compared.


yes, true... I was just trying to give hime some numbers to shoot for. I think under the right conditions, he's there. Yesterday was less than favorable.

A friend of mine has an RB25DET Skyline motor in his 240SX... he previously ran an 11.5 @ 126.

Last night, with the addition of a MUCH larger IC, fuel cell, HUGE surge-tank style intake manifold and a custom fab equal length header (work or art btw), he only managed a 12.5 @ 120. He bogged his launch... but still didn't have the mph... just fyi, he was expecting 130+ and high tens.

def

where did you run? Cecil? that track is a "mod" track.. .

people usually get their best times there

rumor is it is downhill ever so slightly

"Driving with a laggy turbo doesn't make it any easier to drive. You are making more power but with a narrow power band. With stock wrx gearing and rev limit, if you botch your 1-2 and fall out of the power band you can forget about it. Especially when you have narrowed your power band with a turbo that has more lag and lower wheel torque down low"


BINGO!!!! Sure, the big turbos make impressive hp numbers but for street and race driving they are a PITA.

Has anybody run a low 12, high 11 @ around 115 mph with a "big" turbo on a 2 liter WRX motor??

jinxproof99 went 11.8-11.9s @ 118-120, or something like that... this was on a Green.

mikaust's 18G uses the 8cm housing off the Green. All he needs to do is swap the compressor side, and his turbo IS a Green. Again, he ran 12.1 @ 118.

def

Originally posted by dug-e-fresh


mikaust's 18G uses the 8cm housing off the Green. All he needs to do is swap the compressor side, and his turbo IS a Green. Again, he ran 12.1 @ 118.

def

Not exactly.

The Green uses a different turbine wheel then Michael’s turbocharger. The only thing that will be reused is his turbine housing. In fact he will have a complete 7cm 18G and a green when it is all finished.

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com

Originally posted by Richard Sierra
BINGO!!!! Sure, the big turbos make impressive hp numbers but for street and race driving they are a PITA.

Has anybody run a low 12, high 11 @ around 115 mph with a "big" turbo on a 2 liter WRX motor??

I agree. There are plenty of people in the 12's with a VF-28/29/30/34. The only difference is that they could also lay the smack down on an auto-x course. ;) (well, the 28/29 at least)

Bryan,

Drag racing a “big” turbo with a 2.0 is a PITA and just takes practice to nail down the technique. Don’t feel too bad as I ran a 12.8 @ 120 mph with a 2.4 60ft the first time I took a “big” turbo down the track.

If you’re using “launch” control try turning it off. Using it will help spool the turbo but when the turbo finally comes on line the boost hits so hard you end up smoking the tires, hitting the rev limiter, shifting into second too soon, and you’ll “bog,” blowing the run. You’ll need to slip the clutch a little more while launching and try to carry the rpms all the way to about 7500 rpm (but don’t hit the limiter). When you grab second gear you will most likely need to slip the clutch to keep it from bogging and make sure not to fully lift off of the throttle between shifts.

Don’t worry about your 60ft too much but if the car pulls cleanly through the run without bogging and you still only trap at 104mph then you’ve lost 50 whp somewhere along the line.

Good luck.
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Originally posted by nmyeti
Not exactly.

The Green uses a different turbine wheel then Michael’s turbocharger. The only thing that will be reused is his turbine housing. In fact he will have a complete 7cm 18G and a green when it is all finished.

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com

Sorry for the misconception... that was the impression I was under.

def

Originally posted by dug-e-fresh
Sorry for the misconception... thats was the impression I was under.

def

No problem

Originally posted by Element Tuning
Bryan,

Drag racing a “big” turbo with a 2.0 is a PITA and just takes practice to nail down the technique. Don’t feel too bad as I ran a 12.8 @ 120 mph with a 2.4 60ft the first time I took a “big” turbo down the track.

If you’re using “launch” control try turning it off. Using it will help spool the turbo but when the turbo finally comes on line the boost hits so hard you end up smoking the tires, hitting the rev limiter, shifting into second too soon, and you’ll “bog,” blowing the run. You’ll need to slip the clutch a little more while launching and try to carry the rpms all the way to about 7500 rpm (but don’t hit the limiter). When you grab second gear you will most likely need to slip the clutch to keep it from bogging and make sure not to fully lift off of the throttle between shifts.

Don’t worry about your 60ft too much but if the car pulls cleanly through the run without bogging and you still only trap at 104mph then you’ve lost 50 whp somewhere along the line.

Good luck.
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

I goobered the BOV .. I kept getting compressor surge with a type-H .. worked down to one washer (which is what i ran on). Found the bov signal line was kinked yesterday, so I'm thinking I had a pretty healthy boost leak to go along with everything...

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Originally posted by North Ursalia
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Brian

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