Hey Guys,

Just to keep everyone posted... I received my Turbo TEC-II Kit on Friday from Shiv and spent today beginning the install.

Everything is going very smoothly with some phone assistance from Shiv and Imprezer. A little slow, but that's entirely because I am being very cautious and taking my time to ensure I do this right. Especially since I have never undertaken a car project so large before.

Thus far, I have installed the Crank Trigger and it's Sensor assembly, Coolant Temperature Sensor, MAP Sensor, and Fuel Injectors. This dosen't sound like much, but this part was the majority of the install and only took about 5 hours. Keep in mind... that's going very slowly.

I still have to install the knock sensor, and O2 sensor, but these are the easy sensors. I wanted to get all the difficult stuff out of the way today. Tomorrow will mostly be wiring up the TEC-II to send/receive to all the inputs and outputs.

For those who want to see what has been done so far and what the kit looks like I have been documenting it all with my digital camera. All the pics are 640x480 and not optimized, so I am just posting the directory. Enjoy... and more to come tomorrow.

NOTE: I am missing a pic of the Knock Sensor and it's custom mount because I forgot to take one... will add it as soon as possible.

<A HREF="http://208.9.184.107/grfx/tec-ii/">TEC-II Install Photos</a>

-Nick

[This message has been edited by NickCat (edited July 08, 2000).]

Nick,
I had a dream your car's tranny blew up
(no joke)
be VERY careful....

i think sev spends too much time on this board. now he's having dreams of other members (and not even the female kind). :)

Ummm... thanks, I think, Sev...

No real risk of that yet, no turbo yet though... that'll be about another 2 weeks. I am going to be pretty conservative once I get the turbo though. I'm starting with a 5PSI map...

-Nick

How are the larger injectors working out on a N/A car?

I'm watching this thread with great interest. The pictures are a good visual aid in understanding what is involved with the installation.

I'm strongly considering the Tec II as one of my first engine upgrades. I understand it may be overkill for a N/A engine, but it is also something you wont outgrow no matter how evolved your motor becomes.

Good luck, and good wrenching.

Tim

Please tell me that the vacumm line that you are using for the MAP is connected to all intake runners, and not just the one shown.

Randy

Hello,

Randy, look at http://208.9.184.107/grfx/tec-ii/Install_DayOne/MAP_Sensor_Installed.jpg and then look at your car. The MAP sensor is sitting on a bracket so that it can be screwed into something and not just flopping around. The vacuum line that you see kind of near the middle of the picture runs from the "plenum" to the area between the two intake runners and then, hidden from view of the camera in that picture, into the bottom facing side of the MAP sensor. That's a pretty good install, actually, on Nick's part. On Shiv's car, Shiv has the MAP sensor facing up and the line coming close to the strut bar. I like Nick's choice better http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smile.gif

In case any of you Bay Area folks saw Shiv's car and can't remember this part, he moved the MAP sensor from it's first location, on one of the holes that held the spark-plug wire distribution block to this position on the intake runner. It's just a cleaner place to put it.

Joel

UPDATE

Hey Guys... still working on it... still going slowly and taking my time...

Revision: Don't know yet... not done hooking it all up. Will let you know.

Tim K: I have a turbo on it's way... and the TEC seemed like the best method to control the turbo as well as be able to control ever nuance of the ingition and fuel without any compromise with multiple piggy back computers.

Randy: Joel is corrent... you can't exactly see how it's mounted... but the MAP is upside down and the vacuum line that I used was the one directly upsteam of the throttle body and plugs directly into the MAP. The line that was there was simple T'd into another vacuum line.

Joel: Thanks for the thumbs up.

Here are some new pics that I took this morning when I started of the injectors and during the day today.

<a HREF="http://208.9.184.107/grfx/tec-ii/Install_DayTwo/">TEC-II Install Pictures - Day 2</a>

-Nick

Absolutely outstanding job documenting all of this.

Thanks.

-Red

[This message has been edited by Red-Impreza (edited July 09, 2000).]

nick,

do you know if the magnecor wires are the same 8.5mm ones they sell to normal people. I mean, i have a set already... will i have to buy another set?

michael

Michael, yes you will have to. The new ones are also 8.5mm but they are much longer than the stock replacement magnecor ones.

Red-Impreza: Thanks... just trying to help everyone else who has decided to take the TEC-II road. Which I highly suggest!

SkiDaZZle: Imprezer got that one, but you will see in the pics that the wire is much longer.

Ok... well now I am just waiting to talk to Shiv to start her up. Here are the last pictures. The only thing that happened between the last pics and these was all the wiring. But this is up to your own discresion as to how, and where you run the wires. I left all the wires in my install long at least until I have decieded if I am keeping the TEC-II on the firewall or not.

The wiring is very simple and didn't take long as all. The wire management of making sure wires weren't in bad places or near anything dangerous is what took so long. I believe I did a pretty good job though.

There are only a few pics this time, but they basically show the finished and wired TEC-II and the new engine bay, still mostly stock, but with the TEC (Notice the longer Magnacor like Imprezer mentioned.

<a href="http://208.9.184.107/grfx/tec-ii/Final/">TEC-II Installation - Final</a>

-Nick

I will be taking more pics later... once the turbo gets here... and I will be documenting that install as well. It will be the Minnam Stage II Kit that I will be installing.

Nick,

Looks nice but I want to reterminate the spark plug wires on the TEC-II side. I think a straight rubber boot would look nicer than a 90 deg. boot. That way, they won't be pointing in different directions. Oh yeah, you can remove the masking tape labels now http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smile.gif

Shiv

Well just got off the phone with Shiv... The car is running very very smoothly now, feels about the same, if not a little faster than it was before. But we haven't tuned it at all yet. We spent some time troubleshooting, as per my hooking up a wrong wire. Apparently I am human and prone to making mistakes, but Shiv went through a few things and low and behold we found the issue.

We just tweaked the settings a little to make sure the TEC wasn't having to adjust to far from the fuel map for the car, and it was really close. We are tuning a completly new beast, since nobody else yet has tuned an NA car with 550cc injectors. But all is going very well... car idles smooth, and response is just as good as it was before.

We'll be continuing the tuning as the week goes on. This is realy hard long distance though, but at least I am getting loads of experience.

Stay tuned for more TEC-II tuning action.

Just need to add this... THANK YOU SHIV!!!

hehe... and now you know why I left the masking tape on... just in case of something like tonight. See how easy it was to determine I am a bonehead! And I owe being able to notice the problem all to the masking tape! http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smile.gif

-Nick

Tired... need sleep... been a loooong weekend...

Don't sweat it. We all make mistakes. When I installed my first TEC-II, I accidentally hooked the injectors to the TEC's idle control ouput. I mean, come on, "IDLE" almost looks like "INJ", right? http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/wink.gif The car would start, run for a few seconds, and then die. No amount of tuning would fix it. I was completely stumped. But all I had to do to find my mistake was take a break, eat some food and check my work with a flashlight. That's the last time I'll ever work in the dark on my driveway!

Shiv

Did you have to remove the strut bar because of clearance problems? Just wondering http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smile.gif Looks good, can't wait to check it out with the turbo!

Nick, your car is N/A as it sits, but what other mods do you have on it?

I, personally, think that this will be a big hitch that shiv will run into... long distance tuning.

Shiv, good luck with getting everything laid out perfectly.

Nick, good luck in getting it running and tuned to perfection. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smile.gif

Nick are you near a drag strip or similar type of track. And can you get us 1/4 mile times? (After the car is tuned and still N/A) http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/biggrin.gif

Nickcat What year is your car. I have a 2000 RS will the TEC-II work for my car? How much was the turbo kit?

Shiv - Your Impreza is was ultimately led to me purchasing my own impreza after reading both build ups in SCC. Keep up the good work and nice going at the "Smackdown"

Rubasu,

My system should work on any Impreza of any year.

Congrats on the car--- I'm glad to hear some good has come out of my scribblings.

shiv, King of the SCC Smackdown http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/wink.gif

You could do free long distace talking with www.dialpad.com, (http://www.dialpad.com,) or using AIM IM with voice chat, or Microsoft NetMeeting and videocameras !!

Larry

Opie: Yep... had to remove the front brace, it wouldn't fit with the intercooler anyway. You wanna buy it? Write me an e-mail.

8Complex: Right now I have for other mods, a K&N Drop in filter with the gasket in the other box on the throttle body and Stromung Dual Tip Stainless Exhaust. I had an underdrive pulley, but with this system you need to put a stock pulley back on for accuracy.

Revision: Only track I am near is Moroso, but I don't think I will have time to make a run before I get the turbo kit installed. I am planning on picking up a G-Tech though... so it won't be perfectly accurate, but have to be close.

Larry: Yeah, the long distance thing is kinda hard, but the car is already so close to being dead on with the map provided, I am really thinking it's not going to take too much more to get it right. However you can't really use anything with a cord to talk, as you need to be mobile in the car while your testing and tuning.

-Nick

Nick,

I guess your need a portable HAM radio and many repeaters, eh?

Larry

NickCat - I've already got the same brace, I was just wondering if it needed to be removed because I was considering the TECII for my RS! I guess I'll have to find an alternate mounting point.

P.S. Do you remove the factory coil pack? If so could the TECII unit be mounted there (with a custom bracket)? Just thinking....

[This message has been edited by Opie (edited July 10, 2000).]

nick,

what are the laptop (or computer, i guess) requirements are there for the TEC configuration? I guess it uses db9 serial interface, but does it require windows 9x? pentium processor?

michael

Congrats on the install! I'm wondering if your still going to be selling any of that stuff like the pulley or tower brace that had to come off. I'd be interested.

Mike

Nice job Nick

Shiv can correct me if the new TEC's are different, but the last gen software needed a next to nothing laptop to run..I used an old Acer 386 laptop that a buddy sold me for $50 for a while, before I upggraded to a nice Toshiba laptop.

Shiv - how did you get the bigger injectors to work.....did you use the stock rail, or is it upgraded to accet 550? Or, were you able to locate another car with the same connector type?

Congrats on smackdown btw...good job....get som roster tail photos next time!

Adam,

I could be wrong,

but it looks like the car used new rails and injector plugs. Is that right ? Did you have to wire in a new injector loom ?

On all the imprezas I've seen, the injectors are side/gallery fed, not top feed as these are.

J.

Hey Guys,

Well I started a little tuning tonight, with the help of Shiv of course, basically we just made a few low rpm to redline runs in 3rd while logging the data to determine how the VE table needed to be edited to correct the base map for my specific engine setup.

We then actually did a few test to determine threshold for ping in the engine by advancing the timing. However no ping was to be found.

I state again... this kit is really great... I don't think anyone else can say they have a kit that ANYONE can install. This proves it... I will be honest, when it comes to cars I am reletivly clueless, in the realm of tuning and anything above basic installs. But I didn't find the kit difficult or confusing.

So what this means... any of you with the standard issue trunk monkey, a wrench and a little time can have yourself a TEC-II in no time! http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smile.gif (had to make reference to the Trunk Monkey somewhere in this post)

As far as computer... I think anything that can run windows... probably any version of windows will work fine. This is giving me more and more reason to hardwire a computer into my car to play MP3s, and now control my TEC... course I would really like to run it off an EMPEG, but I would have to find a way to port the program to linux... oh well... I can dream.

-Nick

[This message has been edited by NickCat (edited July 10, 2000).]

Hello,

For the computer, anything that will run windows 95, 98, or 2000. I'm not sure about NT, but I think it'll run off NT SP3 or greater. Note that you don't need an ultra-fast computer. Some of the techno-geeks can fill in for me, but a serial cable is pretty dang slow and the TEC does all the thinking anyway, so your computer needs to be able to get data. That's it. No mega-processing.

So that means that you, too, can run off a 486. I run a 486dx2-50 (50 MHz) and it can run win95/98 just fine (takes a little bit to boot up, but who cares - even without plugging into the car, I get 8-9 hours off a fresh battery).

If you want to run off a 386 or worse, you will need the older version of the software, which is not as fun to use and might not be as powerful/adaptive.

Larry, err, umm, HAM? How about cell phone? http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smile.gif Or just do your data logging and e-mail the results to Shiv http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/tongue.gif But once the base maps are done and fine tuned, most people probably won't need to "tune" with Shiv over the phone.

Joel



[This message has been edited by Joel Gat, 1.8L (edited July 10, 2000).]

Nick - If you get a G-Tech, you can do a run with the TEC-II active and one with it disabled and running on the stock ECU, right? Or did you remove the original MAF sensor already?

8Complex-- in Nick's case, he would have to swap back in the stock injectors if he wanted to toggle over to the stock ECU. Other than that, it's just a matter of changing ignition wires. But as it stands, the car isn't tuned for max power. I had to include a conservative map since I've never before tuned a NA EJ25 running big 550cc injectors. They always seem to have big turbos slapped on 'em http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smile.gif

Nick's in for some tuning fun.

shiv

[This message has been edited by shiv (edited July 10, 2000).]

Well, I don't know about you guys, but besides spending lots of money on the TECII, I don't want to have to buy an old laptop (much less have it in the car). Once it's tuned, will you need the puter in the car with you at all times, in order to get error codes, etc?

Someone posted a question awhile ago about the possibility of using an LCD display with the TECII. Shiv, is this possible in the future, since the TECII does the "thinking"?

Just curious,
-kagan

Nope. You don't need to keep a laptop in the car. The TEC-II uses the stock CE light for diagnostics, just like the stock ECU. I don't see why you would need an LCD display. The whole idea behind the TEC-II to install it, tune it, and forget about it. From there on, it should be transparent to the user. No additional tweaking, fiddling, etc,. That's the beauty of real tuning....

shiv

Actually, I was the one who posted the LCD display question. The reason was simple -- it could offer a very cheap way to replace a few expensive gauges. An LCD display is $100.

I dunno what exactly the TEC-II could output, but even if it's not useful, I bet it'd be cool to watch while driving! http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smile.gif I do know that a display connected to OBD-2 could replace an A/F ratio gauge, coolant temp gauge, and display many other fun items like fuel trim and air flow readings.

Think of it as a way to keep tabs on the engine status without carrying a laptop in the car. Of course my previous post was to ask whether such a thing was possible in the first place. The CE light isn't the most elegant of diagnostic tools.

[This message has been edited by R Diamond (edited July 11, 2000).]

I like the LCD idea. Add an EEPROM, some buttons, and the bit commands, you could have a hand sized database of different "tuning" for your car. Maybe have like a peformance mapping, fuel-economy mapping, and a "try and steal this" setting.

I'll need to find my computer engineering + CS friends.

BTW, with the power of the TEC-II, what is a good way to set a car up so that no one would want to/be able to steal it? Can you just program it so that the ignition never fires? ... never inject any fuel (would that be safe)?

All of these LCD monitoring ideas are feasible. Perhaps someone else can look into it since I'm quite ignorant in those areas. As for security, it's easy to set the TEC-II's auxillary rev limiter to say, 0rpm. In fact, you can easily hook it up so that you can toggle (with a hidden switch) between the two rev-limters. With no spark, the car aint going anywhere. Or, if you're really mean, you can set it to 710rpm. Just enough to idle.. heh heh... and nothing else.

Of course, if you have your laptop handy, you can download a program so mistuned that there's no way it will even fire up, let alone idle.

shiv

UPDATE:

Tuning is going well... the WOT part of the map seems to be very well tuned. We are still running on the rich side, but this is for safety reasons until we get the rest of the engine ranges tuned properly.

However I have to report that the car does appear to pull harder than it did before... especially above the sweet spot between 4500-5500 that the stock car has. It now definilty pulls just as hard all to way to redline.

-Nick

More tuning to come tonight. I will try to get a G-Tech as soon as possible. Just need to make sure I'm not spending any extra money on stuff I really don't need.

RE: LCD screens

I haven't looked at the TEC-II manual yet, but, here's an idea of the issues you'd have to overcome to put an LCD on the TEC-II.

From what I've heard here, the TEC-II has a serial port and the necessary IO lines to control an engine. (It's what I'd call a "headless" system.) It would need something like a panel-link or other video port if it were to support a display. Also, the firmware/software in the TEC-II would have to include an LCD-video driver and applications to decide what to display on the screen.

A more likely scenario would be to create a device that has the required video HW a serial port, and the SW and processing power to do the same basic thing as the laptop does. It might put the TEC-II in data-logging mode, then simply listen to the serial port and display the data. Basically, it'd be the equivalent of a PC (although you could strip it down considerably if it only monitored the TEC-II). There is another group in the i-Club making a PC for the car (they're calling it the "Trunk Monkey"). I'm sure it would work just fine.

-Red

This is the display that I was thinking about. It seems to me you could a simple custom board could poll the TEC-2/OBD-2 system and reformat the data and redirect it to the display. But, then again, I don't do hardware interfaces...

<A HREF="http://www.jarcom.com/inmotion/">
<IMG SRC="http://www.jarcom.com/inmotion/images/lcdsamp.JPG" WIDTH=286 ALT="lcd" HEIGHT=161></A>

I think I've seen that before - it looks like the interface you'd use with a Possum Link for the WRX's.. Not a bad idea, but I don't know what's involved..

Basil

I found this to be very interesting and full of information on how to install and tune the TEC-II. It is from their website:

website: http://www.emi.cc/home.htm
actual manual: http://www.emi.cc/pdf_files/tec99.pdf

michael

FYI-- my kits don't follow their installation guidelines. Instead of a full-on replacement, the TEC-II runs in parallel with the still functional stock 'puter. Patent pending baby http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/wink.gif

shiv

Is that a basic stamp setup for the LCD ?

UPDATE:

We are just waiting to install the Manifold Air Temperature Probe before we start tuning the ignition advance. I will be installing the gauges this weekend, all but the EGT cause it's not here yet (damn carparts.com). I will be removing my AFC and installing the gauges into a custom faceplate inside the gaugepod.

On another note... I have to rewire the stock CE light to go into the TEC-II, anyone know what wire that is on the stock ECU bundle?

-Nick

Nick,

It is B134 #11
That is on the bottom connector.

Voltage on wire:
Light on 1v
Light off 10-14v

i scanned the ecu pics in for steve... you can see them by scrolling to the bottom of this page: http://www.lagging.com/subaru/faq.htm

good luck
michael

Hey, is anybody going to collect this stuff together and put it in the mods section? I'd love to be able to refer to it later when I'm ready to buy one.

-Red

I don't see why not... that's the intent... but I am just waiting for the entire kit to be installed before I make the mod page. There will be 2 parts to the install... one for N/A, and an additional part for the turbo parts in the kit.

I will also be taking pictures to make a mod page of my gauge install, as soon as I get some free time.

-Nick

Outstanding! You guys are great. I really appreciate the all the tech info. That goes for all of you Subaru gurus.

Thanks,

-Red

Well the gauge install looks like it's going to be pushed back a little, unelss I get time during the evening this week. I have been searching around for the proper fittings to install my Fuel Pressure gauge and Boost. The local autoparts stores around here are a joke. I need to find a performance shop that carries fittings for standard gauges.

I need a T for the fuel line.. that has a 1/8 NPT Female connection in the middle of the T. I also need a Vacuum line T for the Boost that has a 1/8 NPT male connector in the middle of the T.

I'm still searching, but if anyone know's where I am likely to find these sort of connections, please let me know. I tried all the local car parts stores (Discount Auto Parts, PepBoys, Ect.) and the local house and home superstores (HomeDepot), but nothing... everything is either way to large or to complex.

The search goes on...

-Nick

[This message has been edited by NickCat (edited July 17, 2000).]

nick,

come to gainesville, and i will take care of your tec-2 system http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/wink.gif

no, really... i made my egt bung, boost controller, fuel fitments, and water fitments to the turbo with Home Depot parts http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smile.gif

for example:
homemade manuel boost controller: $7 (works like a champ...will replace with tec boost selenoid)

michael

Michael-- does your $7 valve offer closed loop rpm vs. MAP programmability? ; )

Can I ask you a question Nick? Your mounting location seeems a bit strange if you are going turbo, wont your top mount IC obstruct the tec II? Or you are going with a front mount (which i didnt think minnam did)

well thinking a bit hard about it I guess the minnam kit may come with a smaller IC like the WRX. I have a spearco one and it looks close, like if it will hit the left side of the system. I was thinking of mounting mine (hint hint shiv) on the left of the engine bay. where the stock airbox was.

NickSTi-- There is still enough room for the top mount Minnam IC with the TEC-II mounted on the firewall. However, I am making a new intake system-- one which will hold the entire TEC-II system near the ABS system. For now, I'm suggesting to customers that they keep all the wires long so they can relocate the TEC-II later if so desired. More on that later...

Are you converting your car to a manual or are you staying auto for a while? Send me a PM and we can talk about some options...

shiv

Well Shiv answered the question, but basically I am planning on keeping it there until I get one of the airboxes Shiv is talking about. Then I will most likely move it. That's why I kept the wires long for right now. I could really move it anywhere in the engine bay with the wires as long as they are right now.

Michael, thanks for the offer of help, but I think I have it covered now.

-Nick

UPDATE:

Next part of the install was the gauges... I just started tonight with installing my AutoMeter gauges. I installed the Mechanical Boost entirely, and just the Electric Fuel Pressure Gauge Sender into the fuel line. The wires are run into the cabin for the FP, but I still need to mount the box and wire it.

I tapped into the ashtray light for a light switched power source for the Boost light, and I will do the same for the other 2 gauges. I will take pictures of this later.

So here are the pics of the gauge, FP sender and boost gauge tap point. I also took a pic of the lights compared to the dash lights... I think it looks pretty good... it's obviously reversed from the dash scheme, but the green matches well.

<a href="http://208.9.184.107/grfx/tec-ii/Gauge_Install_One/">Gauge Install - One</a>

-Nick

[This message has been edited by NickCat (edited July 19, 2000).]

UPDATE:

Ok guys it's been a while (been rather busy lately) but I finished the housing for the autometer gauges it wasn't easy but it was worth the effort the mount looks great. I will take some pics as soon as I get the car cleaned up a little. For those who didn't know... I mounted the (3) 2-1/6 inch AutoMeter Gauges in the gauge pod. The install itself required the slight modification (read dremmel) of the pod housing itself. I made the plate that holds the gauges out of black lexan. The whole thing looks pretty damn nice. If the lexan were matt finish instead of gloss because of the lexan it would look like the stock gauge pack.

In other news, the turbo (after waiting and waiting) is on it was from Minnam. I should have it next week by this time. Hopefully it will just be a single weekend install. From all the people I have spoken with this seems to be a fairly simple install to the car. I actually choose to get the oil pan with the turbo oil return line already tapped. Since welding is about the only thing I can't do in my garage it seemed like a simple solution for just a little more money on top of the turbo (this option is available from Minnam)

I will finally document a Minnam install from start to finish. I'm just kind of surprised nobody else, besides Steve, has since the kits have been out for well over a year now.

I will probably start an entirely new thread for the turbo install.

Later
-Nick

Maybe some of our developer friends should write a Palm Pilot interface. It already has the video and serial interfaces. It just needs some coding.

Electomotive will eventually be coming out with a Windows CE software version to be run on Palm Pilots. It will be more small screen friendly, from what I hear. Right now, I can't really see running the current software on anything smaller than a full color laptop screen.

shiv

Shiv,

If you have any pull with Electromotive, ask them to do a Windows CE for Automotive (WCEfA) version.

WCEfA is the version of Windows CE (WCE) that runs on the Clarion Auto PC. I realize that the Auto PC has not been very popular and that it only has that little 64x256 display (and it has a slow SH3 processor, and maybe a few other ills), but it would seem reaonable to expect more of these types of devices with more powerful processors and mememory in the future. Wouldn't it? http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/wink.gif

-Red

BTW: WCEfA has speech recognition (limited to a small set of commands) and text-to-speach output. Might make for an interesting interface, IMHO.

UPDATE:

Just to keep everything fresh while I finish up this install I have uploaded my pics again and given them all larger descriptions and they follow the progression of the install from start to finish (stock engine bay - finished TEC-II engine bay)

<a href="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1125321&a=8287653">
http://www.photopoint.com/images/pplogo3.gif</a>

I still need to take pics of the gauge mount I made, just procrastinating. I will soon though.

-Nick

bump... this is some good stuff...

Especially interesting for those considering a Vishnu Turbo Kit.

-Nick