I'm poor and this is what I've cobbled together for a suspension setup. I'm just wondering if anybody else is in the same boat?

BTW: Primary use is AutoX with some street duty and hopefully some track duty.

Thanks,
Dustin

Its a great suspension setup.

Fred is using this on his 2.5RS and Orion on his WRX. On Midnight_Gold's STi we are using 325/300lb GC's over stock shocks.

-Tom

Its a great suspension setup.

It has some issues. One of which I think I have whipped
see this thread. (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602326) I've also modified the design of the GC top mounted camber / caster plates after some issues with bending that may have been caused by the lack of stroke.

Fred is using this on his 2.5RS and Orion on his WRX. On Midnight_Gold's STi we are using 325/300lb GC's over stock shocks.

Am I the only one who has issues w/ bump stroke? What are people using for caster / camber plates?

Thanks,
Dustin

How low is your car? Fender lip to wheel center?

-Tom

How much would this whole setup cost? I've been considering a set of tein coilovers, but I think I can do the work myself to modify a set of stock struts.

For ~$1600 I can get the tein flex that will bolt right in.

On the other hand I could buy Koni's, GC sleeves, & caster / camber plates then cut the stock strut so that it all fits together.

Is that correct?

-jeff

How low is your car? Fender lip to wheel center?

-Tom
13.875" - 14" It's been a while since I measured and the car has been on jack stands for close to a month now ;)

How much would this whole setup cost? I've been considering a set of tein coilovers, but I think I can do the work myself to modify a set of stock struts.

For ~$1600 I can get the tein flex that will bolt right in.

On the other hand I could buy Koni's, GC sleeves, & caster / camber plates then cut the stock strut so that it all fits together.

Is that correct?

-jeff
Well Here is the cost breakdown:
Koni Inserts ~$600
GC Sleeves w/ Springs of your choice ~$400
Caster / Camber Plates ~$350

None of the off the shelf coilovers come with caster adjustable tops that I'm aware of. Most of the Camber only plates can be rotated to adjust camber and caster together though.

Sounds like you're testin' the waters for potential customers... I do like the look of those insert lowering bits!

Anyway, yes, there are a bunch of us out here. The "Team Zen" WRX is currently running a 325(8")/300(7") GC/Koni Combo with Noltec camber/caster plates up front.

Coupled with our PolTec endlinks & prototype adjustable lateral links, the suspension allowed us to put the first Subie ever at the top of the index at the most recent Chicago SCCA event. Needless to say, a bunch of R-tire shod national trophy winners started grumbling about the STX index (remember the index-meister is Chicago-based).

PS:
I've also modified the design of the GC top mounted camber / caster plates after some issues with bending that may have been caused by the lack of stroke.
Details?

-- Gary

Details?

-- Gary
I'm having new plates made for the tops out of 304SS that relocate the bearing carrier. The material difference along with the new location of the bearing carrier should fix the bending issue and allow for more caster at a given camber setting. I am however adding weight and reducing the camber adjustment range.
My GC plates:http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNDcyNTQyNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
My new plates:http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNDcyODEwNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

Later,
Dustin

PS: I'm still exploring ideas for a totally new camber / caster plate ;)

I was going to go with the Koni/GC combo but the issues with the stroke length and folks having to cut bump stops just made me want to avoid it all together. I still am quite curious and may sell the coilovers I have to go with a Koni combo if nothing else out of ride quality issues with my current coilovers.

Looks like you can't go down to the "ideal" 13.5" mark though with the Koni/GC combo though?

I like 'em. If you're not mechanically inclined, you might hate the install. But they work pretty well from what I've seen so far. I wouldn't go over 350 lbs/in on the springs, though.

I had to cut the bumpstops all the way down to the last donut in the front to get what looked like acceptable bump travel. Rear has plenty of room with 1/2 the bumpstop removed. The ride height on my 2000 RS is at 13.75" front & rear, and I'm using the STi Group N top mounts with additional camber bolts in front to get the alignment I need.

edit: Price!

Koni inserts $600
Ground control kit with the springs I wanted $400
STi Group N top mounts $280

vendor www.boxer4racing.com

Fred, how much bump travel do you have? Am I correct in assuming you bottom the shock body against the upper spring perch?

I'll measure when I get home.

I wouldn't go over 350 lbs/in on the springs, though.



Why is that?

Because the Konis can't handle much more than that "off-the-shelf" - if you have them revalved, feel free to use whatever springs you want.

The guy at Koni said that even with this spring rate, don't expect more than one season of autox before needing a rebuild.

Looks like you can't go down to the "ideal" 13.5" mark though with the Koni/GC combo though?
With my mod I could go down to that height and have significantly (about 1/2") more travel than I had before at 14". At 14" I'm not sure I have more spring travel than shock travel. This means I could coil bind. I'll evaluate that once I get my new plates and put the car on the ground. I may have to go slightly lower or put a longer / stiffer bump stop in there just to avoid coil bind.

Later,
Dustin

Sounds like you're testin' the waters for potential customers... I do like the look of those insert lowering bits!
I'd really like to sell em. They would sell for very little and I think represent a big improvement in a >$1K setup. It just seems that there's not enough interest for me to fork out the money up front to make a decent number of them and they are not going to be cheap at one off pricing.
Having said that I want to be clear that this is not just about making money. I've shown everyone how to do it and anybody with a pair of dial calipers and access to a lathe could reproduce the parts. I shared the idea with the world for free ;)

Later,
Dustin

Dustin,

What spring rate are you running? I wouldn't expect a whole terrible lot of spring movement at the rates I want to run; 400lbs/500lbs.

Let me know how it works for you; I'm quite interested. :)

I think Alex performance sells the Koni inserts for $555, saves a little dough.

Dustin,

What spring rate are you running? I wouldn't expect a whole terrible lot of spring movement at the rates I want to run; 400lbs/500lbs.

Let me know how it works for you; I'm quite interested. :)

Right now I'm running 8" 340lb/in springs front and rear. The rear may go up but I doubt the front will change. With your 400lb/in front springs you can expect somewhere around 2.5" of static compression. Weight transfer in a steady state corner will depend on tires but could approach 80% more than the static weight(really just a guess on my part but probably not too far off). That means you need at least 2" of travel to corner at those levels without bottoming out. Unless you set your ride height really high you won't get even close to 2" without modifying something, and that's with the GC top mounted plates.
Just wanted to show you how much things can and will move even with pretty high spring rates. Just FYI the factory bump stops are called spring helpers for a reason. They are quite soft. i put one in a press at work to try to figure out the effective spring rate and they were just too soft for that. They are actually designed to collapse very easily at first and then progressively harder. I think their rate also changes with speed of compression as well.

Hope I help.

Later,
Dustin

I don't intend to use the GC top-mounted plates. If I do a change, I want shortened and revalved Konis along with Noltec plates up front. The Noltec plate raise ride height something like 0.5-0.75" if I remember right?

So really that is what I am aiming for in all of this; to have Konis that work with the GCs, and the Noltec plates. The lowest ride height I would go to is 13.5", but might want to go as high as about 14.5

I'm not sure if you're asking a question. If you shorten your konis there is no need for modifiying the strut housing to lower the insert.
The Noltec plates will increase the stack up height versus stock or the GC tops but I don't have a set so I can't tell you by how much. I can see your bump stroke going away fast if you give away .75" in your tops and then another 0.75" in your perch. Id be interested in seeing how far away from the opening in the strut tower the top of your spring is. Any chance you could estimate? If these numbers are right it could be nearly 2" :(

Guess I'll add my datapoint to this conversation:

GC / Koni / Noltec (standard) setup
8" 325# Front
7" 300# Rear

We can't get the front lower than 14.25" (from stock 15.59"). The rears are currently at 13.5" (from 15.98 stock) and could go lower if we wished.

Going with a 7" spring in the front would require upping the rate to at least 375 to get near the current block load.. and we'd lose .32" of spring travel before bind.

Regardless, I don't want to go any lower without finding a bit more shock travel. In fact, I'm considering raising the rear a bit to be more inline with the front height... a "proportional drop" would put the rear at 14.6 inches. Downside would be going back to about 40 more lbs of weight xfer.... but perhaps the difference in roll couple will make up for it. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

-- Gary

Ok, I couldn't really get to it to measure but it looks like around 2" between the strut insert body & the bumpstop. Is that enough with a 350 lb spring? :confused:

Kevin,

Last I talked to Billy, he was running his car at stock ride height because of shock travel issues. You might want to contact him as your setup seems very similar to his, although I think he runs re-valved Koni's.

Corey #89 STS

Thanks for the info, Corey. The reason I set the ride heights where they are is because that's where they are with the STi V5/RA springs I had on the car. I figured if that's where STi wanted them, that's where they should be. :) (of course, I have no idea what I'm doing, so uh... :lol: )

The stock height on my RS was 14" front & 14.25" rear.

Here's a pic of the car in action at last weekend's autox (my wife is driving)...

http://home.att.net/~kevinmallen/Tina_lburg_40th_01.jpg

this is with 19mm front & 20mm rear sway bars & 215/45/16 Azeni

Does anyone know if this setup will work on the 02 wagon? i'd guess I'd like to go with GC 8" with 325lb and 7" 300-325lb for the rear with Koni inserts and Sti top hats...sound good? if anyone has something like this on the wagon let me know. also do you need camber bolts for the rear?

There is no reason this wouldn't work in a wagon. The only differences I'm aware of are in the bottom bracked got the stut housings and those are retained. As far as spring rates you'll have to tell us a little more about how you intend to use the car. Camber adjustment in the rear will depend again on your application and second upon your ride height desired.

Does anyone know if this setup will work on the 02 wagon? i'd guess I'd like to go with GC 8" with 325lb and 7" 300-325lb for the rear with Koni inserts and Sti top hats...sound good? if anyone has something like this on the wagon let me know. also do you need camber bolts for the rear?

I am running a similar setup on my 2002 2.5TS Wagon but I run the sleeves on AGX struts. :alien:

I run 500# front and 400# rear with a 22mm front swaybar and a 24mm rear swaybar. My ride height is 14.25" front and rear.

Run with max negative camber in front and some insane toe-out (for the track only hey!) with around -0.75 of camber in the rear.

I run 205/50-15 Azenis, gotta get all the gearing advantage I can with my little NA EJ25 and 3.90 final drive. :D

That car has nose like you wouldn't believe. :disco:

Phil =)

nice! my next question is where do I get the Ground control sleeves? I found the konis at a couple of places but who's good to order the sleeves from that knows the WRX?

by the way....this is a daily driver and I autox on the weekends! thanks!

I found the konis at a couple of places but who's good to order the sleeves from that knows the WRX?

Just order directly from Ground Control. They know the rates that sell for particular applications, and can provide a good recommendation. If you really want to do your homework, you can specify your own rates (in 25 lb increments) based on your exact needs.

Link: Ground Control (http://ground-control.com)

-- Gary

nice! my next question is where do I get the Ground control sleeves? I found the konis at a couple of places but who's good to order the sleeves from that knows the WRX?

by the way....this is a daily driver and I autox on the weekends! thanks!

Nino's Auto Accessories is a Ground Control Dealer. Through him, you will see a much better deal than from GC direct. You can call GC and consult them for the application, then call nino and get the Koni's and GC's at a package discount. Thats what i did.

Jon.

Jon,
Is nino still dealing with Koni? I don't see them anymore on his website. I'm going your route very soon, got the donor struts from a wrx.

-- Steve

thanks! i'll try nino

nice! my next question is where do I get the Ground control sleeves? I found the konis at a couple of places but who's good to order the sleeves from that knows the WRX?

by the way....this is a daily driver and I autox on the weekends! thanks!
Dale Teague at Boxer4Racing (http://www.boxer4racing.com) sells both Ground Control and Koni, plus he offers "pre-installed" Konis on an exhange basis.

I've actually got the GC/Koni combo on order from him right now for my 99 2.5RS (including the prebuilt Konis). :)

Shane -- SM 729

what did you pay if I may ask? also, did it include tophats? i guess I can just check to prices?

The company I work for owns Koni......when will they make a really sweet complete kit 4 Subaru???....... Can you say Employee Discount......:banana::banana:

Calimoxo, can you find out if they are going to ever make one of those koni packages (strut, and matched spring) for subaru? Also, what about hookin the rest of us up with some deals :D

-- Steve

They haven't responded to my emails anyways, so I would be lucky to ever get anything myself.......and giving away company discounts would probably constitute theft and I would be handed an empty xerox box....:(

Just scanning through the thread and as an FYI, I'm on JIC FLTA2's this year.

The old Koni's are sitting around collecting dust waiting for someone to finally take them.... :lol:

I will say that I think I made the wrong choice as DrBiggly and I have discussed quite often. I think the base FLT-A2's just aren't up to the task of the spring rates I wanted. I've had to soften them up and still run them darn near full stiff.

I think a 400f/500r GC, shortened SA to DA conversion with Noltecs would have been more to my liking. Pricing out the conversion at Truechoice (2-3 minutes from my house) proved to be a bit more than the JIC's so I went the cheap route.

I got my setup for my '03 sedan from Nino as well. He had everything to me in just a couple days and at a good price. Just email him and he'll set you up.
Just to add: I'm running 8" 340# front, 8" 300# rear Koni/GC. Ride height is currently at 14.5" front and 13.75" rear. I'd like to come down a bit in the front, so I might try D_REX's fix for that extra 0.75". If clearance is OK, and the space is there, why not use it?
-DT

Orion,

Check your PMs please! :)

just talked to GC they said a 7"350front and 7"250 bAck will work very well with the koni set up...I guess I just need to find a deal on the GC set up...GC said $399.00 who should I go with?

after trying to find everything that's need to do this set up I found a set of tein wagons with sti top hats that will bolt right in! Even thought they are not adjustable:( but i'll try them out....thanks for all you help!

after trying to find everything that's need to do this set up I found a set of tein wagons with sti top hats that will bolt right in! Even thought they are not adjustable:( but i'll try them out....thanks for all you help!

Spring rate in the rear are way too soft on these, you will understeer everywhere.

Phil =)