:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: It's true. Well, I spent all day yesterday with Phil, of Element Tuning if you don't know, installing and tuning the long awaited Hydra. So here it goes. Seemless!! Thats the first thing that comes to my mind after all the driving we did and tuning. The car has no hesitation at any rpm, speed, or boost. I drove 2 hours back home without any problems! It pretty much drives like a stock car. Throttle response is unreal, very quick and precise unlike stock which is alot slower. It's compareable to a drive by wire throttle response. I know one of big things people have been worried about is starting the car and how long. 3 seconds.There was one time where I had the a/c, headlights, wipers, WB 02, laptop all on when I started it and it took 3 seconds. Not a problem with me. There is so many features and adjustments that its mind boggling. Phil has put his blood sweat and tears into the Element Hydra and getting a safe well running base map which I am running at this time. I know this post probably dosen't do justice to the Element Hydra but I know the dyno numbers will!!!! Coming soon........

Bastard! :lol:

I think Phil is tired of hearing from me, I gotta get one quick or I may drop dead at work from lack of sleep, LOL!

Chicken! :lol:


Glad to hear you are happy with your setup. Are your numbers being kept secret for the time being?

No there not being kept secret we just have to get to the dyno soon.

A properly tuned standalone is very nice to deal with. Sounds like you got a good base map and tweaked off of it well. Good luck with it.

I wish the Hydra was cheaper... I wouldn't mind putting one in my Corolla when I do the motor swap, but the alternatives are sub-$500 solutions, which makes a big difference on a low-budget car.

This thing sounds so good, I can't wait to upgrade!

So what's the pricing on this bad boy?

Damn it, sometimes I wish I went ahead and got the Hydra and a tune by Phil. Maybe with a GC coupe next time.

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: It's true. Well, I spent all day yesterday with Phil, of Element Tuning if you don't know, installing and tuning the long awaited Hydra. So here it goes. Seemless!! Thats the first thing that comes to my mind after all the driving we did and tuning. The car has no hesitation at any rpm, speed, or boost. I drove 2 hours back home without any problems! It pretty much drives like a stock car. Throttle response is unreal, very quick and precise unlike stock which is alot slower. It's compareable to a drive by wire throttle response. I know one of big things people have been worried about is starting the car and how long. 3 seconds.There was one time where I had the a/c, headlights, wipers, WB 02, laptop all on when I started it and it took 3 seconds. Not a problem with me. There is so many features and adjustments that its mind boggling. Phil has put his blood sweat and tears into the Element Hydra and getting a safe well running base map which I am running at this time. I know this post probably dosen't do justice to the Element Hydra but I know the dyno numbers will!!!! Coming soon........

:banana: I'll give you a banana because it's good to see that they are here. I'll give a few more bananas when get mine.

:banana: I'll give you a banana because it's good to see that they are here. I'll give a few more bananas when get mine.

actually you need to give this guy a couple of nana's :banana: :banana: , a monkey :disco: . and whatever in the hell this is :alien: , cuz he sucks, haha. but really he does have one, hope to see some #'s soon.

So what's the pricing on this bad boy?


Element Tuning Hydra= $1350

Wideband 02 (Enables Autotune)=$300

Is there a website about this thing somewhere? It sounds intriguing.

www.elementtuning.com

Hey thanks a lot! Really interesting reading. I don't know why Google didn't find the site - seems kind of obvious.

Okay, now you get a :disco:. Hopefully only a few days more for me to wait. It's like trying to go to sleep on christmas eve when I was little.

I think wideband is included in the price

Phil is a nice guy.

There should be some others out there that have the Element Hydra on their WRX. Anybody heard anything. I know Phil was putting in at least one other last week.

wideband is not included in the cost... it is 300 extra.

Mine showed up today, I'm doing some road tuning tonight and have a hillclimb friday saturday and sunday :banana:

(dyno results in a couple of weeks)

:( :furious:

DarthChicken,

Keep us updated on how it goes! Do you know if you have the most updated board for the Hydra?

I have the most updated board. I did get the wideband option as well.

I ran into some training issues last night, called Phil this morning, and got it all worked out. That you have to let the autotune do its thing, upload the map from the ECU to the computer, save it, download it back to the ECU, TURN OFF THE CAR (to let the ECU reboot) and THEN the changes show.

Anyway, car started up first try (no kidding... crank 2 seconds, fired up). Doing a LOT of autotuning today, my hillclimb starts tomorrow afternoon so I've gotta move fast! :banana:

OOOooooo I want to drive down to Oregon and ride along. Autotune will be great for optimization. Phil says he has done very little "re-tuning", that the maps he have hold up pretty well, he just globally scales them for each car's set up.

Thanks for the pre-tip on re-setting the ECU after "learning".

So, I've got it tuned well enough for the race this weekend. The unit rocks basically, the software isn't very friendly to make mass changes, but once you get the hang of it, its not too bad. I'll probably wear the paint off my keyboard up and down arrows :lol:

I need to tune higher boost levels (only have it tuned to 20psi or so but for the road course I'm doing, thats MORE than enough). Cruise is dead on at 14.7.... sometimes it moves away from 14.7, and the A/F learning pulls it right back.

One of my friends who owns an STi came over... he's got a utec, bigmaf, perrin injectors, AVO450, etc... I turned the car on for him, and let it idle... he was amazed, it starts up without any problems, and idles ROCK SOLID compared to his car. After 48 hours, I'm now to the point I leave the laptop at home to go for a drive :banana:

Happy to hear you are tuning yourself with success. I've seen that you have to change each value individually, a pain now, but once you get it set, who cares.

When you got the Element was it pretty much set up to your turbo, injector timing, and target boost or did you make those adjustments when you got it? I can't remember what Phil's got on his car. I know he has the 2.5 block too.

How's the data logging? Too much info?

You'll have to let me know how it does at altitude.

The Element has so much flexiblity and you can just save the maps for different set-ups/uses a la UTEC. The flexibilty may be enough to hang myself, but I'm still looking forward to the STI box soon. Phil told me he's been working on water injection control, something I thought I'd have to do myself. A 3D map based on boost and RPM will be very cool for me. I need to call Phil and see if he has heard anymore about the connector fiasco.

For now enjoy, and good luck racing.

There's not much altitude where I'm headed... the race is 2.2 miles, 4 runs (2 a day), and the runs are from 600ft to 1500ft. Its definitely a "hill" climb, not a mountain climb, LOL.

http://www.wmclub.org/hillclimb.html

The datalogging is actually VERY cool. No way does it have too much info, its perfect. Something that hasn't been published that I really like is the knock voltage. There is a knock map on the hydra - ie at "x" RPM, there is a maximum allowable knock voltage, anything over that is knock and it retards timing.

The logs actually show this voltage. So it would be very easy to graph your knock voltage vs. the maximum allowable, and see exactly where you can add timing! This is something the LINK ECU has as well - being able to see how close you are to the knock threshold.

I have the same shortblock, and we both have heads with AVCS. He's using modded side feed injectors, I'm using modded top feed. He's got a VF30, I've got an AVO500. I'm also running water injections with a 30% methanol mix. So, there are similarities, but there are also differences as well. For now, I'm running a fuel map based on his, but it is different obviously (especially boost). The timing map is a good conservative base map that will work on a variety of cars - I haven't touched it yet, as I've spent my time working on getting the correct fueling (so its good enough for VF30 and for AVO500... that says something). Phil has put a lot of work into this, and it shows.

I think they are working through the connector fiasco.... Phil is kinda at the mercy of hydra at this moment, lets face it, its a new unit and until they get all the supply line bugs worked out its gonna be rough (I work in NPI planning and procurement in the electronics industry, I've seen this more than a few times :lol: )

I really pushed Phil a bit, and so I pretty much accepted any responsibility (ie I NEED ONE NOW FOR THE RACE, I don't care if its doesn't have a wideband, I don't care if Andrew is on his death bed, gimme!).... so there have been some late nights and early mornings working through things. All of it has been related to the fact that its a new product - the hardware and software itself is dead on, no issues there. Its just the documentation that needs to be worked through. I will definitely be documenting my experience with it when I feel more comfortable with it.

Anyway, off to the races, I'm taking in car video! :banana:

i have a WRX with 2.5 STi block swap with these mods:
Intake
Header
DP
UP
Exhaust
VF-22
mod. stock inject.
UTEC right now

afew quick ?s
so is this a complete replacement of the stock ECU?
with the "autotune" mode does this basically just make some runs and it "tunes itself"? provided you tell it what boost to hit and what AFR, when combined with the optional WB02
any back order on these?

like to know thinkin of ditching the UTEC and would like something that kinda "takes care of itself" until i can get to the dyno.

Thanks
H

finally another hydra success story... we were missing a few of those...

I'm talking second hand here, but I think Phil has used autotune for more fine tuning, than gross tuning. That said, I think the autotune will give you/me piece of mind then walking the line close to knock. Talking to Phil about knock correction he says its milder than the stock correction, yanking only a couple of degrees at most, but it can also add fuel. That will smooth things out over the stock ECU considerably.

It may be that Phil's base map will be a good enough for starts, and with good target values the Hydra will tune itself. I'd love to see that, but I think you need to start in the ball park.

It's a complete replacement, stand alone ECU. You loose OBDII, possibly cruise (not now, maybe later update). You gain complete control over the engine and other goodies (extra inputs and outputs). They are available for the WRX now, and STI 'drive by wire' soon.

HOK is being quite humble here. He tuned the Hydra himself for his RS in what seemed like about a week. I'm impressed!!!

quick update - I was running 11.2 - 11.8 A/F, 20psi, and I got all of two knock events the entire weekend. This is with my water injection and 30% methanol mix. 92 octane fuel.

Car PULLS like crazy. I'll post some video as soon as I get it off my camera and on to a file, and find somebody to host it, but basically on every shift or throttle application I was getting a little bit of scrub (2nd and 3rd gear). My times were not all that good, but it was familiarity with the hill that I was lacking, not power :devil:

I would have thought you could go even leaner with the water injection, but maybe not with 20 psi. What is scrub? Is it clutch slip? Forgive my ignorance.

You must be somewhere around 400-425 whp. It must feel like a jet.

Sorry, scratch.... tire spin... whatever :p

I would have gone leaner, but my EGTs are a little high right now (peaks at 1650... which is hot, but its not REALLY 1650 - I cruise at about 1500, the gauge is off). I haven't done a whole lot with the timing, I need to add some in.

I'd guess 400whp or so.

The throttle response is incredible with this thing!

:banana: :banana:

Sorry, scratch.... tire spin... whatever :p

I would have gone leaner, but my EGTs are a little high right now (peaks at 1650... which is hot, but its not REALLY 1650 - I cruise at about 1500, the gauge is off). I haven't done a whole lot with the timing, I need to add some in.

I'd guess 400whp or so.

The throttle response is incredible with this thing!

I'm glad you're happy with the Element Hydra unit and got your fine tuning done so quickly.

Yes, we like fast throttle response at Element Tuning but this parameter is adjustable for those less adept at throttle control. The best way to explain the feeling this tuning delivers is "crisp" engine response under all conditions.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Mmmmmmm crisp.

Stock would then be "murky".

Phil, Any word on STI connectors? Are you tuning WRXs like a mad?

I talked to Phil earlier today, he said that the STi Hydra is a piggy back. The stock ecu still controls the DCCD and other functions.

I am still torn between waiting for the hydra or waiting for the UTEC... wait wait wait... that is all I do! I want more powa now!

he said that the STi Hydra is a piggy back. The stock ecu still controls the DCCD and other functions.


:huh:
I don't think these statements are correct. The Hydra is neither a 'piggy back', nor does the stock ECU control the DCCD.

The Hydra is a 'stand alone' computer that controls almost all aspects that the stock ECU usually handles (sans cruise control, that may be added at a later date).

The DCCD is controlled by a board under the parking brake that is not synched with the ECU at all. :)

Ok, but he did say that the stock ecu is retained in the STi application. That doesn't make it a full stand alone.

The STI unit is not a full stand-alone in the sense that the stock ecu is retained due to the CAN Protocol which requires the factory ecu to communicate with the sub-computers of the vehicle.

The stock ecu's throat is cut so to speak for the electronic throttle, ignition, and fuel injection system. No attempt is made for the factory ecu to work in conjunction with the Hydra for engine function.

I hope that clears it up.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

if i have ver8 heads on a 2.0 wrx does it control avcs if wired in???

if i have ver8 heads on a 2.0 wrx does it control avcs if wired in???

Yes, that is correct. You just need to wire in the AVCS system as you would if you were using a JDM ECU. Darthchicken is current using the AVCS function on his 2.5 with AVCS.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Interesting sort of like the old TEC II (ie parallel setup, I wouldn't call it a piggyback)... how are CELs avoided for no feedback on sensors that teh hydra controls...

A quick little update. It's been alittle over 2 weeks and everything is running great! Sometimes I just forget that I'm running a stand alone. Hopefully I can get to the track soon and see what kind of numbers I can put down :devil: .

A quick little update. It's been alittle over 2 weeks and everything is running great! Sometimes I just forget that I'm running a stand alone. Hopefully I can get to the track soon and see what kind of numbers I can put down :devil: .

That's great to hear. I was wondering why you haven't called :lol:

I'll have a WB for you next week so you can start on that race map.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

That's great to hear. I was wondering why you haven't called :lol:

I'll have a WB for you next week so you can start on that race map.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com


SWEEEEETTT!!! Thanks Phil! :banana:

Ok, I got mine so it's time to go NUTS with the nanas. :disco: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :disco:

Congrats! I'm putting mine on the dyno today :banana:

Congrats! I'm putting mine on the dyno today :banana:


Bump for new info. :)

He made 368 whp. Here is the thread but the dyno plot is no longer active http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=616828

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com