no more problems! yaayyy!!!

:rolleyes:

your description and conclusion is suspect, at best.

well, why don't you just buy a new ECU? :confused:

****

well, what i would like to know is, why were you running 100 octane to begin with when using the stage 2 map. the stage 2 map wasn't tuned to 100 octane, it was tuned only for either 91 or 93. when you test drove with your friend's ECU, what octane were you using, 100 or regular 91 or 93? also, if you were using a higher octane for the stage 2, i don't think your EGT's would be so high, since it's tuned to either 91 or 93? this is fishy.

Your EGTs hit 1800....ummm......where did you place the sensor for the gauge????

****

silver, i had an egt probe placed 4 inches from the turbo exhaust side outlet in the downpipe when i measured my egt's.

okay, however it seems fishy that you hit 1800 degrees with 100 octane in your car. were you using a boost controller of some sort? that just doesn't seem possible with 100 octane. if it's true that you say you used 100 oct. in your tank before stage 2 (on stock map), what EGT's were you hitting then?

1800 degrees 4" after the turbo exhaust side in the downpipe and that's what you got?! wow, man, put it this way, i have mine placed 3-4" in the exhaust manifold after cylinder's 2 and 4 and i'm seeing around 850*C at WOT. that's crazy.

****

btw this is 1800 degrees Fahrenheit not degrees Celsius

well, your most accurate readings for EGT readings would be about 3-4 inches in the exhaust manifold taking readings from either cyl. 1-3 or 2-4. so if you're getting 1800 degrees F after the turbo, you've got to think that exhaust gases cool as you move away, so it would be hotter when closer to the engine. that's too hot my friend to be normal.

egt's are supposed to be measured after the turbo per the instructions that i read on here....

Unfortunately, a lot of things on here aren't totally true. Plus, from many sources, I've heard that it should be in the exhaust manifold.

Your real egts were probably around 1600....maybe less?

....

and keep in mind this is on 100 octane. you should've complained to cobb about your high EGT's when running the stage 2 map. why didn't you? i imagine that if you were running a higher octane mix on the stage 2 and were getting 1800 F, i couldn't imagine what you would get with california 91 octane. again, this is fishy.

clamdip, i put in 3 gallons of 100 octane when i switched from stage 2 91 to stage 2 93. the gas in my tank wouldnt affect anything becuase ive put 100 in my tank before i had the accessport and it made no difference with stock ecu. when i tested my friends ecu yesterday i had 91. we dont have 93 in california.


edit: i should say the gas in my tank when i had divorced the accessport wouldnt affect anything.

Just curious...you put 3 gallons of 100 in how many gallons of 91? 13??

....

I haven't heard of any other problems with divorcing APs.....sorry man, but you just got "lucky"

....

also, high EGT's wouldn't f up your ECU however, your O2 sensor probe and many other things can get damaged when EGT's are too high. but this still seems fishy, your high EGT's. my question is, how can your EGT's be so high when you're running the stock turbo, no more than 15psi of boost, and high octane. this just doesn't make sense. and not to mention that the 1800 F reading came further down when exhaust gases are cooled already. okay, i can see 1800 F w/egt probe in exhaust manifold 4" down from the cylinders, but in the downpipe, it just doesn't fit. :confused:

....

also, high EGT's wouldn't f up your ECU however, your O2 sensor probe and many other things can get damaged when EGT's are too high. but this still seems fishy, your high EGT's. my question is, how can your EGT's be so high when you're running the stock turbo, no more than 15psi of boost, and high octane. this just doesn't make sense. and not to mention that the 1800 F reading came further down when exhaust gases are cooled already. okay, i can see 1800 F w/egt probe in exhaust manifold 4" down from the cylinders, but in the downpipe, it just doesn't fit. :confused:

wouldn't his engine be toast?????

wouldn't his engine be toast?????


oh hell yeah! sorry RIP, we're not trying to call you a liar or whatever. so hope you don't take it personal, but things just don't seem right. your argument for that matter.

Well, again, I'm sorry you ran into this problem...hope you get things worked out. I haven't heard about any problems like this before, so I think you're on your own.

okay RIP, just to give you a little better angle on this. for instance, my EGT's are at 850 C which is equal to about 1500 C and this reading is taken from my exhaust manifold about 4" down from the cylinder (2-4). now, you're saying that you got 1800 F which is equal to about 980 C and this is after exhaust gases cool down (probe in the downpipe 4" after the turbo). now, either you didn't hear your motor pinging like a mofo, or you've melted something. also, keep in mind that you were running a higher octane than what the map was tuned for ( i take it 93 octane?) i don't know. this is just too weird. :confused:

well, i guess like silver04 said, you were just lucky. let me put it this way. 1) i haven't heard of any divorced AP's with this problem. 2) given that we're all using off the shelf maps, i'm sure that my map is the same as yours. the ECU learns on itself. it's not the software, it's the ECU and how it adapts to modifications. if this were cobb's fault, i think there would be a lot more problems. 3) everytime i call cobb and i have some type of engine problem associated with either the accessECU or accessPORT, they're right on top of it. for instance, i've had low boost issues and they sent me the restrictor hose asap. i got it in 2 days. well, like silver said, you're just lucky. goodluck and hope it get's resolved soon.

....

....

clamdip, why WOULD i lie and make all this up?
I don't know but your story does not add up.

I've never seen it recommended on nasioc to put an EGT probe after the turbo. I've seen people say they did it and every single time, people who know better come in and say "NO it doesn't work well there. put it in the manifold". If you took that to mean "yeah it's best to put it after the turbo" than you are quite simply a dumbass and you shouldn't be modding your car.

The only measurement we recommend you take after the turbo is the Wideband O2 (for air fuel ratio).

Also, if you measured 1800 after the turbo, you are either lying, unable to read a guage, have the gauge hooked up wrong, or just totally confused about the whole thing. 1800 after the turbo would indicate nearly 2000+ in the manifold which i have never ever seen anybody report anywhere. Quite simply, your numbers are made-up and you're full of ****. In any case, if you DID see 1800 why the hell didn't you stop driving it immediately. Are you really that stupid?

No, I think you're just a medium-crafty chump who is somehow displeased with Cobb and is trying to get revenge by telling lies on the forums.

I call B.S.

i agree with nhluhr. well, not the part where he's basically giving it to you, but the part where your story doesn't make sense, which is why i'm questioning you. also, did you ever think that the ECU may have been screwed up from the factory? there were some people with problems with their ECU in terms of high EGT's or boost issues. and keep in mind that they were completely in true stock form. now, if you add an aggressive map to it, yes, it will damage the ECU or your car for that matter more. software is software and that is what the stock ECU is programmed with as well. so to point the finger to cobb, when you have all these other factors coming into place just doesn't reserve you any such right. again, not trying to put you down or make this personal, but if you want to come after a company and point a finger to them, you will need some better proof than what you state. and yes, if there was a problem, which it seems that there was earlier before you unmarried your AP, you should've done something about it instead of just letting it go and later decide to point the finger to someone else. :)

remember, any modifications you make to your car is on your shoulders not anybody else's. it is a responsibility factor that you should take before something goes bad.

recently i was going to trade my car in for an 04 sti. divorced the AP from my ecu per cobb's instructions. i followed them with the utmost accuracy to be sure i didnt foul anything up. needless to say i tried switching my up pipe and downpipe from stock to PDE after i switched from PDE to stock when i divorced the AP from my ecu. tried replacing the gaskets. talked to some subaru guru's and finally figured out that cobb's "revert to stock" map messed up my ecu!! i need a new 02 stock wrx manual trans ecu or to have it professionally reflashed since the ecu reset trick wont work on it since its hard coded into the ecu. before AP was even installed i had no sounds coming from my motor(No weird sounds i mean) and i was hitting a healthy peak of 14.2psi. after i installed the AP i was hitting 15.6psi and no sounds, great results. divorced the AP and used the "revert to stock" function. now i have a sound like a moth on crack coming from my motor and i can not hit past 10psi. ive narrowed it down to the tumble generators not recieving a signal to open. the air goes right past and creates a rattling sound from them. they use springs to keep em closed and a motor to open them. i know its the cobb software because a generous friend let me borrow his 02 ecu for a test drive and i hit ~14psi again and no rattle. put my ecu back in and back to 10psi and the moth on crack sound. when i told cobb they said "its not our problem, our software has no malfunctions like that". on a side note, my EGTs were upwards of 1800 degrees when running the stage 2 map, and i even had some 100 octane in my tank! unless they would be willing to try to fix this problem for me then they can be sure i wont do business with them in the future and they can be damn sure i wont recommend them to anyone else. time to call up Bill@ECUtek and see what he can do.


I thought i was the only one. Cobb's AP made my car f!!!!! up after i unmarried it and returned it. Now my car hits full boost of only 13.5 if im lucky. prior to the AP going in, i was hitting a nice 15.5 to 16.

From the day i unmarried it from my ECU, i felt it was slower, it just didnt respond the same no more. Im pissed also. Right now, im just waiting for my UTEC so that hopefully i can use that to tune it.

I thought i was the only one. Cobb's AP made my car f!!!!! up after i unmarried it and returned it. Now my car hits full boost of only 13.5 if im lucky. prior to the AP going in, i was hitting a nice 15.5 to 16.

From the day i unmarried it from my ECU, i felt it was slower, it just didnt respond the same no more. Im pissed also. Right now, im just waiting for my UTEC so that hopefully i can use that to tune it.

Did you, or the originally poster **** with the restrictors going to the FBC at all?

I thought i was the only one. Cobb's AP made my car f!!!!! up after i unmarried it and returned it. Now my car hits full boost of only 13.5 if im lucky. prior to the AP going in, i was hitting a nice 15.5 to 16.

From the day i unmarried it from my ECU, i felt it was slower, it just didnt respond the same no more. Im pissed also. Right now, im just waiting for my UTEC so that hopefully i can use that to tune it.
/\ /\ /\ /\

You're upset b/c the car is making the boost its supposed to from the factory??

^^^^

i have to agree with this again. 13.5psi sounds about right to me in true stock form. also, you'll need the ECU to re-learn it's parameters.

why don't you ship your ecu to cobb and have them flash it back to stock ..

why don't you ship your ecu to cobb and have them flash it back to stock ..


now that's a good idea. man, how people on here don't think first before coming on here and saying "boo for cobb". imagine if everybody thought like this, the world would be a much better place. :D good call jaxx.

Cobb sucks why won't they help me?!?!

"did you call them?"

No, but isn't bitching about them on a forum good enough?

From the day i unmarried it from my ECU, i felt it was slower, it just didnt respond the same no more. Im pissed also.

You mean when you flashed your ECU back to stock it became slower that it was with the stage X reflash. This suprises you why :confused:

I believe you have EGTs and O2 readings confused. Wideband O2 sensors go after the turbo in the downpipe. EGT sensors go as close to your cylinders as possible.

I've never seen anyone here, in 3 years, tell anyone to put the EGT sensor in the downpipe.

Sorry to hear about your car. 1800 degrees at the downpipe is devastating.

I thought i was the only one. Cobb's AP made my car f!!!!! up after i unmarried it and returned it. Now my car hits full boost of only 13.5 if im lucky. prior to the AP going in, i was hitting a nice 15.5 to 16.

From the day i unmarried it from my ECU, i felt it was slower, it just didnt respond the same no more. Im pissed also. Right now, im just waiting for my UTEC so that hopefully i can use that to tune it.

so when you unmarry your AP, your car is supposed to be faster? :rolleyes: i have never seen or heard anybody unmarry their AP's and the car got faster. :confused: also, you complain about stock boost levels, why? man, i see you have an STi, well, you should really learn about what you're doing. i wouldn't want to see another broken STi on these forums just because someone thought that they could do this and that without taking the time to actually know what's going on first. well, actually, i would like to see that, then i can get me some STi parts.

I have never had any problems with the folks at Cobb, they've always been very responsive and very helpful to me and this is the first i've ever heard of anyone having problems with them.

From what you've said it sounds like something in your ECU is indeed messed up, but I have no idea how that would happen unless you dropped it, somehow messed with the programming yourself, or maybe hooked a magnet to it or something else which could funk with the memory, but even then it probably wouldn't work at all rather than just screw up a couple of things. I'm betting the guys at Cobb would at least flash your ECU back to stock or back to the flash you'd paid for originally, and with the ECU i'm betting they might even be interested in looking at it in it's current state first to see what in the world happend. From the way i understand it all the flash does really is re-set some targets and maybe flip on and off a few codes. It should take some serious reprogramming to get it to do what yours is doing.

I'd say call and have a friendly talk to the Cobb guys. Although i'm sure you're pissed, i'm betting you should get some good service if you treat them with respect on the phone too. I'm not saying you're calling up and screaming at them, but if you were, that could explain their reluctance to want to help.

Anyway, good luck dude, sounds like a crappy situation. Hopefully this is indeed a legit problem and not just some bad-press for Cobb as a few of these guys are eluding to. The Cobb guys are solid folks and i'd be really surprised if they don't help you out. In the meantime, be wary of pushing the car much on a screwy ECU.

If you hit 1800 degrees F on your EGT in the downpipe, stuff would be melting... what do you get with the other ECU?

I don't know but your story does not add up.

I've never seen it recommended on nasioc to put an EGT probe after the turbo. I've seen people say they did it and every single time, people who know better come in and say "NO it doesn't work well there. put it in the manifold". If you took that to mean "yeah it's best to put it after the turbo" than you are quite simply a dumbass and you shouldn't be modding your car.

The only measurement we recommend you take after the turbo is the Wideband O2 (for air fuel ratio).

Also, if you measured 1800 after the turbo, you are either lying, unable to read a guage, have the gauge hooked up wrong, or just totally confused about the whole thing. 1800 after the turbo would indicate nearly 2000+ in the manifold which i have never ever seen anybody report anywhere. Quite simply, your numbers are made-up and you're full of ****. In any case, if you DID see 1800 why the hell didn't you stop driving it immediately. Are you really that stupid?

No, I think you're just a medium-crafty chump who is somehow displeased with Cobb and is trying to get revenge by telling lies on the forums.

I call B.S.

That sums up what I think too.

....

LOL at this thread...

Before putting in a new ECU I would try reflashing and unmarrying again. And of course test your car out after each change.

On the piston inspection are you going to pull the motor and take the heads off?Or do you mean just doing a comp or leak down test?

....

by piston inspection i meant compression/leakdown and visual inspection through the spark plug hole to see if i can see anything.

Good luck with that.

hey RIP, i wasn't trying to bash you nor i don't think that was the intention of nhluhr. it doesn't seem to be a problem with cobb's accessport, but rather a problem with the ECU to begin with. so in that case, cobb was right, it's not their software that is screwed up, it was probably the ECU before it was reflashed. if you ask me, they were being pretty straight-up front with you. well, goodluck on your tests and tell us how it goes. :)

I'm about tired of Cobb myself, in fact I hope I don't run into the same problems divorcing the AP. They told me over the phone to check all my intercooler hoses for the low boost issue, the car is freaking new!!? It's a good concept the AP but I don't feel that much of a difference, and I know I'm never going to hit the target 15psi's on all gears. I should have just bought an ebc. or ECUTEK

....

i guess that since you can't really prove that AP did the damage, then that's probably the reason why cobb was saying that it wasn't their software that did the damage, given that you couldn't actually prove that. however, it may have been that the ECU was already screwed to begin with.

well, why don't you just buy a new ECU? :confused:


why should he ?? Cobbs software/reflash is the suspect here ....

NOTE: the above comment is assuming the member's description description of the prob is honest!

to clarify a few things for you guys, i DID call cobb and the response i got from them was "our software has no malfunctions, its not our problem". lay off on the bashing, i was very satisfied with the AP when i had it, as far as the customer service? its not the best it definitely has room for improvement. i dont know if anything got messed up during install as far as my EGTs, i followed the instructions precisely so i cant explain that part. clamdip/nhluhr, it seems like you're angry or something so if you dont have anything to contribute to the thread i'd appreciate if you wouldnt flame me for it. we all have issues with a car(maybe not a wrx) at some point or another and having people flame you for it doesnt remedy the situation. when i tested the other ecu with it my egts were in the high 1300s/low 1400s. now that i think of it when i got my car used from the dealer it kept throwing a Cam Position Sensor Bank 1 code and they supposedly sent it out for reprogramming and its thrown that code again but much less frequently, less frequent enough that i could not replicate it for the dealer because when i'd shut my car off and then turn it on later it wouldnt be on. tomorrow im going to put in the new ecu and im also changing all the gaskets and inspecting the pistons for any obvious damage, ill keep everyone posted.
So now you remember that your USED car was throwing codes from the day you bought it USED from the dealer. But it HAS to be Cobb's fault the ECU is screwed up :rolleyes:

If your car has problems already, taking it to a more extreme state of tune/stress is going to A) intensify the problems and B) bring about new problems (or ones that were not noticable yet)

I believe Josh said that there are indeed some AP's that just don't work out of the box and those are replaced. Most other problems are either user error or pre-existing issues with the vehicle. I'm right on board with him on that one.

why should he ?? Cobbs software/reflash is the suspect here ....

NOTE: the above comment is assuming the member's description description of the prob is honest!

well, it's evident in one of his other posts that apparently, his used ECU was already having problems (go back a couple of posts). so how can he just point a finger to cobb and say it was their problem, when the ECU already seemed to have problems in the first place. this is what i'm questioning as well as others that have posted here. i'm not very sure what this thread is about and why this was posted, but that's the issue. i'm sure that if it was a problem with the accessport, he should've gotten a hold of cobb earlier so the problem could've been resolved instead of waiting for the last moment to complain and point fingers. maybe there was something wrong with the AP, especially when you're getting like 1800 F egt's. :rolleyes: :confused: the pieces of the puzzle just keep falling off little by little. :)

If your car has problems already, taking it to a more extreme state of tune/stress is going to A) intensify the problems and B) bring about new problems (or ones that were not noticable yet)

I believe Josh said that there are indeed some AP's that just don't work out of the box and those are replaced. Most other problems are either user error or pre-existing issues with the vehicle. I'm right on board with him on that one.

can't put it any other way. ;) good summary, CASE CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

....

....

So this thread was a huge waste of time??

well, hopefully it wasn't if the poster would say that he actually learned something or he's just being stubborn and can't really say if he was right or wrong. that's the only way. :)

I don't get it. It doesn't matter if he's right or wrong he should have left the thread as it was. Somebody with the similar problem could have gotten some use from this. Now it's just crap.

I'm about tired of Cobb myself, in fact I hope I don't run into the same problems divorcing the AP. They told me over the phone to check all my intercooler hoses for the low boost issue, the car is freaking new!!? It's a good concept the AP but I don't feel that much of a difference, and I know I'm never going to hit the target 15psi's on all gears. I should have just bought an ebc. or ECUTEK

You are like 1 in a thousand that have not been happy with the AP, like the thread starter, you must have some other problem effecting the car other
than the AP. There must be something wrong if you are not feeling much difference, everyone is so quick to accuse cobb when they have not looked at all other possibilities first. Cobb rocks, and I have never had a problem, had a reflash last year to stage 1 that made my car very quick and smooth, it was an obviouse difference to me, and then got the AP a couple weeks ago with the new stage 1 revision#'s and I noticed a bit more performance with this. Overall I am very happy with the Ap and cobb. Ill soon go to stage 2.

Thanks Cobb!

Problems with a brand new 04? 1 in one thousand you may want to do some searches and call some expert tuners.

There was a difference, I said "not that much". I've talked to 3 reputable tuners and they have a lot of unhappy AP owners and even these shops are saying they are not happy with the results. Either way if you are happy then more power to you, I sold mine so I'm happy too hahah :) ECUTek here I come.

I wish someone would dyno an AP Reflash against ECUTek or UTEC.

I wish someone would dyno an AP Reflash against ECUTek or UTEC.

why?

from what i understand, the ECUTek and UTEC allow you to customize them yourself, obviously you should be able to end up with more power out of either of them than the A/P maps because the A/P is set to be very safe and reliable for the thousands of cars that they're shipping out too without taking into account any of the other possible mods people might have. The guys at COBB had to do their best to get some decent performance out of their management without pushing the limits at all in order to minimize the risk of anything detrimental happening to anyone's car if they've ever tinkered with anything else, or if their car happens to run stronger or weaker than others from the mfg. Have cobb do a custom tune on their A/P or on the ECUTek or UTEC and you'll get better results than what you get out of the box.. that should be fairly obvious.

Problems with a brand new 04? 1 in one thousand you may want to do some searches and call some expert tuners.

There was a difference, I said "not that much". I've talked to 3 reputable tuners and they have a lot of unhappy AP owners and even these shops are saying they are not happy with the results. Either way if you are happy then more power to you, I sold mine so I'm happy too hahah :) ECUTek here I come.

I wish someone would dyno an AP Reflash against ECUTek or UTEC.

Thoes 3 didnt by chance sell ecutek did they? :lol: As for dynoing an cobb reflash vs an ecutek... why? They both do the same thing... now if you mean cobbs off the shelf vs another then I could see it, but that was done with a number of other vendors and the power out put was all basicly the same. Cobb's off the shelf does seem to have problems with Ca 91, which is really like 90-89 octaine.

Thoes 3 didnt by chance sell ecutek did they? :lol: As for dynoing an cobb reflash vs an ecutek... why? They both do the same thing... now if you mean cobbs off the shelf vs another then I could see it, but that was done with a number of other vendors and the power out put was all basicly the same. Cobb's off the shelf does seem to have problems with Ca 91, which is really like 90-89 octaine.

Nah, 2 of them happen to be COBB dealers :lol:

From what I read both UTEC and ECUTek have off the shelf (stage type) map, although you can mess around with the UTEC parameters more than ECUTek.

Can you please send me a link regarding the off shelf dyno comparisons between the tuners I'd really be interested in that.

Maybe it is the gas maybe it's my car, but the car is new and they have 91 oct maps on their websites with specific hp claims, so are you telling me that COBB did not test their off-the-shelf maps on 91oct and just pulled that claim out of their :alien: ?

If they QA'd the 91 maps then there should be no problems whatsoever right?
Not from what I read in their own forums, in these forums, and personal experience.


I'm not putting COBB down so I apologize for getting people all b tt hurt and defensive. I'm glad you guys are happy with teh AP.

Nah, 2 of them happen to be COBB dealers :lol:

From what I read both UTEC and ECUTek have off the shelf (stage type) map, although you can mess around with the UTEC parameters more than ECUTek.
Utec and ecutek dont have off the shelf maps... but txs makes an off the shelf map for the utec and a good number of ecutek vendors have off the shelf maps(all should be different, unless someone is stealing some other tuners map).

Can you please send me a link regarding the off shelf dyno comparisons between the tuners I'd really be interested in that.

No, im too lazy today. :lol: But I belive it was between i speed, vishnu, and rally performace a year or so back. All were using ecutek with thier own maps.



Maybe it is the gas maybe it's my car, but the car is new and they have 91 oct maps on their websites with specific hp claims, so are you telling me that COBB did not test their off-the-shelf maps on 91oct and just pulled that claim out of their :alien: ?

If they QA'd the 91 maps then there should be no problems whatsoever right?
Not from what I read in their own forums, in these forums, and personal experience.




I dont know what they did for QA. But I know you can get 91 in utah where they are. It just seem that Ca 91 is a lot weaker then 91 anywhere else... I dont know why I have run 91 here in ma and there. Its not the same stuff at all and im at close to sea level in both places. I also know a number of ca 04 wrx's that are having knock problems out of the box... It is very very hard to make a single map that will work on everyones car with everyones vastly different setups.

You are right I should have bought the AP thinking its a generic tune rather than a "my specific vehicle" kind of ecu upgrade.

I just don't like convincing myself everytime I hop on the car that...i know i made a good purchase and I'll hit target levels today..:)

Let me see what ECUTek and a good road tune for $650 does, it may just suck on crappy CA 91 gas too for all I know.

I say if you can affored it always go with the road tune. 100 times better. I belive its more then $650 for a road/dyno tune tho isnt it?

You are like 1 in a thousand that have not been happy with the AP, like the thread starter, you must have some other problem effecting the car other
than the AP. There must be something wrong if you are not feeling much difference, everyone is so quick to accuse cobb when they have not looked at all other possibilities first. Cobb rocks, and I have never had a problem, had a reflash last year to stage 1 that made my car very quick and smooth, it was an obviouse difference to me, and then got the AP a couple weeks ago with the new stage 1 revision#'s and I noticed a bit more performance with this. Overall I am very happy with the Ap and cobb. Ill soon go to stage 2.

Thanks Cobb!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=7364

It's probably more like 148.8 in a thousand based on this poll at the time of this post. It's a good product but not a great one especially with 14.88% of your customers not happy with your product.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=7364

It's probably more like 148.8 in a thousand based on this poll at the time of this post. It's a good product but not a great one especially with 14.88% of your customers not happy with your product.

On a product like this, I'd say >85% positive response is very good. Especially in this community where people obsess over every half pound of boost and have numerous self-installed mods (which may have issues). Of the 15% "not happy", it is quite likely that there is a mechanical or fuel problem with their car which is preventing full performance. Even in that case, Cobb's product is great in the sense that it preserves safety measures and doesn't blow up motors. We really need to just wait and see how these problems are resolved. Will just switching to another tuner be the answer? Or will the debugging of mechanical issues reveal the problem?

I say if you can affored it always go with the road tune. 100 times better. I belive its more then $650 for a road/dyno tune tho isnt it?

It varies Gruppe-s quoted me $650.00 for initial flash and dyno time. GTMotorsports was $1050. I'm waiting on I-Speed.