anyone using these? how do you like them? does twe make better ones, or are the cobb spicy cams much better? im looking for a cam that will be okay for a n/a setup or should i decide to go turbo (unlikely, hence my post in the n/a forums)...

-mike

I would like to know which is better as well.

I can't speak for the Cobb cams, but I did ask Keith at TWE if their Stage II SOHC cams would be OK for FI and he said:

"Our Stage II SOHC Cam was designed to work with the stock ECU so the duration is kept very close to stock and it has only minimal overlap, which make it a perfect cam for Forced Induction applications as well."

If the Cobb "spicey" cams are one notch up from their street performers, they might have a bit too much overlap for FI. If there's a chance you're going to go turbo in the future, you may want to stick with the TWE Stage II's or Cobb street performers.

Or leave the cams alone and spend the money on your turbo system... :devil:

klug

I'm not aware of any direct dyno comparisons for the two company's cams, but TWE highly recommends you get their valve springs and titanium retainer kit if you go with their stage 2 cams. Cobb doesn't explicitly say this about their spicy cams, although their stage 2 cylinder head package does include the springs/retainers (along with some $2500 cylinder heads :p ). It may be jumping to conclusions, but I would assume the TWE cams are a bit more aggressive because of their insistence that you make the upgrade.

I spoke to TWE yesterday, and Tom (their main engineer?) told me that they are actually working on some stage 3 cams. These will be far more aggressive than the spicy or the twe stage 2 cams currently available. Aggressive to the point that they may not even be suitable for street cars anymore, but the product is still in the making, so anything can still happen in that regard.

Matt Monson dyno'd his car with cobb cams and it was quite impressive. You probably can't go wrong with either company to be honest.

awesome, thanks. it wil be my next step after i finish off my i/h/hi flow/exhaust setup and upgrade the clutch. looks like i will be going with the twe's. any idea as to the gains on these?

I'm planning on Spicy. Only real choice for a serious NA build, IMHO.

yeah good info...

dont quote me, but i think Matt's car with i/h/e, pulley, stage 2 cams (maybe more but i dont remember), dyno'd around 160 whp.. but again, dont quote me, ask Matt.

Steven

keep the opinions coming! thanks guys!

Matt is using Spicy cams.

The TWE uses less duration and more lift, where as the Spicy cams use more duration and overlap.

TWE is going to boost the overall power curve while the spicy is going to do it for 3,500 and above redline. You can use the Spicy cam for turbo applications, and it will work well. However, it is a performance cam for a turbo set up. You will want a big turbo becuase boost under 3,000 is going to be messy due to the over lap, and you want to stretch the redline a bit to fully take advantage of it. Before anyone chimes in and sugests that I do not know anything, I recommend that you contact Cobb Tuning and see what they say about it, this has already been confirmed. THe spicy cam isn't a wild NA grind, and I would concider it somewhat on the mild side. Heck, the idels isn't hardly affected. Do not be afraid of some overlap with a turbo set up if you are dong the whole works (block rebuild, stand alone management ect). A nice thing about it is that it limits torque somwhat and will generate substantial HP, making life somewhat easier for your transmission.

TWE already will sell you a knarly NA cam. THey call it the World Challange cam. I hope that the Stage 3 ends up being something like the spicy cam (overlap wise) with the lift of their Stage 2. I belive that would be the best cam for a street car with out killing drivability, but a healthy comprimize.

cheeRS,

Greg

One add-on about the spicy cams: I asked Cobb which one he recommended for my set up (CAI, Headers, high flow cat, catback, pulley, lightweight flywheel, S-AFC) and Cobb said:
"We do not recommend the spicy cams unless headwork is being done" (Headwork = ported heads, btw).
So I guess for me the question would be: "Which street cam is best?", since I don't think I'll ever shell out the 3 grand for a 5 hp increase head porting job.:)

You could always port your heads yourself. Then, take it somewhere to get a 3 angle valve job. it's WAY cheaper that way.

That assumes I know how to port heads. I have no idea what would be required, and I don't think I could do with a dremel tool a better job than what Subaru engineers designed. I'd rather not take the chance.

I wouldn't waste your money on TWE or Cobb cams just buy a turbo kit its cheaper in the long run and will make more horsepower. Trust me I have Stage II SOHC Cams, springs and tit. retainers and ported heads from TWE, along with some bolt-ons and I make 162 whp and I ve spent enough money to buy a turbo kit to produce double the gains. It really depends what your looking for in your suby.

Listen to Section8, he knows what he's talking about. But I do want to clear up a few of the incorrect statements others have made in this thread about my car and Cobb's spicy cams.
1. My car dyno'd 151 hp with no engine management.
2. Cobb recommends upgraded valvetrain with this cam because it can take advantage of a higher redline. I was going to get the springs but Cobb couldn't deliver them in time and I had 13 miles left on the warranty and had to get the car in for the work. I will immediately get upgraded springs when the Accessport is released and I can bump my redline past stock.
3. Cobb says to take full advantage of the cams you want ported heads. There is another 15-20+ hp to be found by using these cams with ported heads. I didn't skip the heads out of choice, it was an unfortunate circumstance of living in a $$$ based world.
4. As Greg said, the spicy cams are not an extreme NA grind. They are a fairly agressive grind that is well suited for a daily driver that see some track time. That is why they also call it the "club racer"
5. And, as he also mentioned, they could be used in an FI build with the right turbo and engine set up. But the key here is having the right set up. If you get some spicy cams and later decide you wanna add an AVO turbo kit on your set up you will likely run into all kinds of trouble...

does anyone have some dyno graphs/numbers for the TWE cams?? I've seen some on the cobb stuff, but no graphs on the TWE..

The thing that got me with the spicy cams is that it made close to peak torque from 2000rpm to redline.. thats pretty damn retarded.

As for the port+polish, is this something that any reputable machine shop can take care of, or is it something that only subaru specialized shops should handle. To my recolection, the subaru heads have strange exhaust ports that kinda require a more specialized touch, so to speak.. anyone know anything about that?? or am i on crack? :p

It sure would be nice if these companies would tell you what their lift and duration is on these cams. At least then you could make an educated guess as to which one best suits your needs. Instead we get to wait for people to buy them, install them, then dyno them, and then weed through all their mods to come up with what we think might be the net gain from the cams.

The thing that got me with the spicy cams is that it made close to peak torque from 2000rpm to redline.. thats pretty damn retarded.

I would bet money that the Cobb headers have alot to do with the low end torque. I found that the TWE header gives off idle and low end torque a boost, and they are the HO variety. THe Cobb header would be a better match for the bolt on, cammed engines. With the equal length header there is no longer a definite "boost" from 3,000 to 4,000 RPM, it just goes faster when you step on the gas petal. This is the oposite of what everyone has been saying for so long (large headers + 2.5" exhaust = -torque) With my combination of parts, it has. I would still wager that matts car has more torque however.

cheeRS,

Greg

It sure would be nice if these companies would tell you what their lift and duration is on these cams. At least then you could make an educated guess as to which one best suits your needs. Instead we get to wait for people to buy them, install them, then dyno them, and then weed through all their mods to come up with what we think might be the net gain from the cams.

Do you not belive what they say that the specs are?

cheeRS,

Greg

Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb

so which cam would be ideal for staying N/A? I have COBB CAI, and Cat back now.. and plan to get either cobb or TWE equal length headers, and a lightened crank pulley. I dont plan on getting heads, or port and polish cause its alot of $$.
thanks,

Steven

Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb Cobb
COBB!@