As many of you know, I've been rolling around in a twinscrolled STi motorswapped WRX for almost a year now.

Its been fun, I love the VF36, but it's never been able to hold boost up top.

Sure I get 20 psi by 3k in 5th, and more than 15 psi by 3k in 4th, thats fine and dandy... but running more than 14-16 psi to redline is impossible.

I mean when you push 310 whp on pump and 320 on c16 at the same boost pressures because she wont make anymore boost... you know you've maxed your turbo out.

As far as bolt-ons go, PE has their 1825 turbo. Cost? $2300 large! I have no idea how much power this turbo is supposed to make. I've heard 50 ps more than an 1820 due to the more efficient exhaust side... but other than that, I have not a clue.

Well, I was able to pick up a VF37 (the VF30 version of the VF36, think VF34 vs VF30) for REAL cheap, almost brand new... $275 shipped!

So now my plan is to have one of my twinscollers reworked by Deadbolt and essentially it will pack the same specs as PE's 1825 (total cost including initial $275 = ~$750!). Deadbolt has done this already to for someone overseas, and they say the customer is VERY happy. Almost the same spool with, and I quote, "a LOT" more top end.

Soooo.... does anyone care to guess how much power I will make with this?

I wont know for a couple weeks, but its my hopes to have this together by the Subaru Shoot-out,... and perhaps even the EVO vs WRX/STi shootout.

Keep in mind that with my 310/320 whp set-up I ran 12.0 @ 115. Anyone care to further guess what I'll run with the new turbo?

def

if it really is similar to the 1825 (better flow then 1820 as you said) then Id say if you went and retuned it atleast a good 350whp pump holding alot more strongly then you did before.
C16? Who knows? Ill take a stab at it and guess at the 400whp mark

As many of you know, I've been rolling around in a twinscrolled STi motorswapped WRX for almost a year now.

Its been fun, I love the VF36, but it's never been able to hold boost up top.

Sure I get 20 psi by 3k in 5th, and more than 15 psi by 3k in 4th, thats fine and dandy... but running more than 14-16 psi to redline is impossible.

I mean when you push 310 whp on pump and 320 on c16 at the same boost pressures because she wont make anymore boost... you know you've maxed your turbo out.

def

im sorry its been so tough for you!!! :lol:
your current v8 setup sounds sick; good luck with the 1825, should be good for 350 at least. cant imagine how nice having that kind of power is, especially with such a broad curve.

Yea the power curve now is pretty sick, hopefully this will make it better...

although boost does fall off up top, the STi heads and cams work so much better, it still pulls pretty good.

def

easily 350whp on pump! 11's are here for you buddy:)

335/365

when are we going to go on a twinscroll cruise? Show the evo's whats up? :lol:

Do it to it Doug...Are you going to the Subaru/EVO shootout on Sept 11th?

Doug,
what are they doing to make is a pe1825 spec? Just wondering as I was thinking of going that route, but a lot is needed such as the larger compressor wheel, which is easier, the dual ball bearing center cartridge, and the bigger exhaust housing. I talked to I think Greg at rallispec and he said normally, he sees 350wtq and 375whp :-) He said thats not even pushing it either. On a 2.0, he said it would start spooling at around 3500rpm and make full boost of around 20psi at around 4000rpm. I would love to see the results of the new turbo since I'm planning on running a larger twin scroll turbo as well. Hurry up!:-)

Peter

These guys in Texas are having a sale on Pe1825f. Some, but not much in the way of stats


http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=pe+1825f++wrx&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D3 e2957ea0ea9ad4f%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery% 3Dpe%2B1825f%2B%2Bwrx%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A %252F%252Fshop.store.yahoo.com%252Fsgpracing-store%252Fpe18tuupforg.html%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSCPResults%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.store.yahoo.com%2Fsgp racing-store%2Fpe18tuupforg.html

335/365

Yeah, I'd agree right around there.

I'm not sure, but I don't think that 1825 wheel is all that big. So a bit of a gain sounds reasonable, but I think it will be tough to make 400 whp.

Kevin

the 1820 was maxed out at 360 on 100 octane on the car i pieced together, if the 1825f does have larger wheels i am sure that making 380 isn't much of an issue. It's too bad there aren't more larger bolt on turbo options for the twin scroll, that's what i am after when i do my swap :)

The 1825 sounds like it costs a little too much for what it is....might as well go for a Garrett at that cost. But hey....if she spools and your happy...all the power to you!



Scoobs

Doug,
what are they doing to make is a pe1825 spec? Just wondering as I was thinking of going that route, but a lot is needed such as the larger compressor wheel, which is easier, the dual ball bearing center cartridge, and the bigger exhaust housing. I talked to I think Greg at rallispec and he said normally, he sees 350wtq and 375whp :-) He said thats not even pushing it either. On a 2.0, he said it would start spooling at around 3500rpm and make full boost of around 20psi at around 4000rpm. I would love to see the results of the new turbo since I'm planning on running a larger twin scroll turbo as well. Hurry up!:-)

Peter

As far as I know, the compressor housing is all that is different. Deadbolt says that performing their Stage 1 compressor upgrades on a VF36 specs it out to an 1825F. I have both the VF36 and VF37.

I am probably gonna send out the non-ball bearing VF37 as it has less miles and I'd hate to give up the titanium wheel on the VF36. so the only thing the VF37 will lack is the bb center section... which for the twinscroll set-up WONT make a huge difference. Look at how little a VF34 outspools the VF30.

Anyway, I also plan to have Deadbolt port the exhaust housing and heat coat it... they said they've already re-worked one VF37, and the customer was VERY happy, citing very little difference down low (a little more lag), but a huge difference up top.

I have one month to get her sent out, get her back, and installed... then tuned. Wheew... this should be interesting! I need to have it ready for the EVO/WRX shootout... AND the following weekends Subaru shootout.

Gonna try to get her shipped out tomorrow.

1825 Info:
www.power-enterprise.co.jp
(use AltaVista.com to translate)

http://www.powerenterpriseusa.net/catalog/turbo/tu_spec.html

18 m^3/min = 630 cfm
AR= 0.25

def

BTW- total cost for this bolt-on 1825 clone should be around $700 bucks. Less than 1/3 the original!!

As far as I know, the compressor housing is all that is different. Deadbolt says that performing their Stage 1 compressor upgrades on a VF36 specs it out to an 1825F. I have both the VF36 and VF37.

I am probably gonna send out the non-ball bearing VF37 as it has less miles and I'd hate to give up the titanium wheel on the VF36. so the only thing the VF37 will lack is the bb center section... which for the twinscroll set-up WONT make a huge difference. Look at how little a VF34 outspools the VF30.

Anyway, I also plan to have Deadbolt port the exhaust housing and heat coat it... they said they've already re-worked one VF37, and the customer was VERY happy, citing very little difference down low (a little more lag), but a huge difference up top.

I have one month to get her sent out, get her back, and installed... then tuned. Wheew... this should be interesting! I need to have it ready for the EVO/WRX shootout... AND the following weekends Subaru shootout.

Gonna try to get her shipped out tomorrow.

1825 Info:
www.power-enterprise.co.jp
(use AltaVista.com to translate)

http://www.powerenterpriseusa.net/catalog/turbo/tu_spec.html

18 m^3/min = 630 cfm
AR= 0.25

def

BTW- total cost for this bolt-on 1825 clone should be around $700 bucks. Less than 1/3 the original!!

Thats what i did for my first turbo. deadbolt upgraded my vf-22 to an 1820 along with some other services. total project cost me 650 bucks so about 40% the cost of a new one. the work was real clean too. jerry's work is awesome.

Its a 38lb a minute compressor wheel. Its from an GM Diesel. Its a very common and inexpensive wheel. I found this out a long time back and posted it. This is why the PE turbos need to really be boosted. Some shops gave the PE turbos a bad name because they could only get 20-30whp more then a VF. They are fools because they ran the turbos with the weak gate spring and had maybe 16-18 psi at the power peak. I started tuning them up correctly after PE told me that I need to have 1.7 to 1.8 KG Cm of boost at power peak. I ran mine up to 2.0 bar using the 19 psi gate spring. Found alot of power up there.

In my experience that wheel is worth about 40-50whp over the VF wheel in most cases. Pushed hard with a stiff gate you can see 60-70whp. There are other wheels that I would rather have in that turbo though.. I am sure Deadbolt can suggest something else. If you could fit the 50 trim garrett wheel you would have a Green on Steroids. Might need a different comp housing. But for low buck the GM IHI wheel works.. Just have Deadbolt change the gate or run to Home depot for some springs.. You want to get that wheel up to 23-24 psi at the power peak. Those twin scroll gates really blow open easy.

C

Yea, I have mine sprung shut @ 20 psi or so now... I don't think she'll blow open! ;)

Thanks for the info Clark.

def

I have that extra external waste gate uppipe Doug, what should we do with it?

I have that extra external waste gate uppipe Doug, what should we do with it?

sell it to me :D

I may still go with that... all depends how this goes, ya know?

def

doesn't the PE1825 have a larger exhaust housing as well Doug?

mikaust-is that a twin scroll up pipe with an external wastegate?

Some shops gave the PE turbos a bad name because they could only get 20-30whp more then a VF. They are fools because they ran the turbos with the weak gate spring




LOL...

petawabit- Same sized exhaust end. Would be nice if they offered a larger one that could flow a bit more power, but casting prices are insane for a very small quantity production turbo.

Clark-I'm popping on the zerosports twin here soon. My frank needs a little TLC and a 2.5L behind it. I'm catching up to mike's number of motors :eek:

Stephen

I think you will like the twin scroll. DEF sure has good luck with it. I tuned my car up to 20 psi on monday. 2nd gear and up nets bad clutch slippage... damn it. I turned it down to 17 and the clutch held. Was really wanting to make some Big boost nitrous pulls but it looks like that wont happen until the clutch is sorted out. Plus.. The AC went out in the car and its 115 degrees so it sits for a while anyways.

C

petawabit- Same sized exhaust end. Would be nice if they offered a larger one that could flow a bit more power, but casting prices are insane for a very small quantity production turbo.

Thats what I was gonna say! lol!

At any rate, the twinscroll exhaust housing is abit larger than normal IHI stuff were used to. Thus the .25 a/r ratio. Also, the benefits of twinscrolling help out the VE of the engine, letting it breath easier.

def

Dang, that 2.5L is ready to rip loose for ya.

I heard back from Zerosports (their turbo is identical to PE one in looks, pink blade and all)

Good day Mr Stephen,

Thank you for your contact.
About turbine system for GDB-C, its power increase than stock is
approximately +20-30PS with downpipe and 1.4kg of boost.

Not as amazing as I was hoping. But this may not take into account for tuning and more boost than 1.4kg. Stiffer spring is in the mail for the wastegate.

Stephen

Its a wheel made for a Diesel and it likes high PR's. Still should be fun... Hey.. Dont worry.. Spray a big 100 shot on that girl.

C

That would be 20 psi, which I believe is only 2 psi over the stock twinscroll stuff.

Also, I assume they mean NOTHING but a dp and 20 psi, and it yields 20-30 ps?

In hp terms thats, 19.7-29.5 lol!

I wonder what 25 psi would yield? :devil:

def

Bottom line.. This is going to kick you right into the 11s D.

C

Bottom line.. This is going to kick you right into the 11s D.

C

:devil:

def

:alien: wanna sell your vf36 to me Doug? ;)

:alien: wanna sell your vf36 to me Doug? ;)

definitely a possibility... have to wait to get this on sent out and returned to do the swap first...

PM me

def

LOL...
it's the truth though :)

Its a 38lb a minute compressor wheel. Its from an GM Diesel. Its a very common and inexpensive wheel. I found this out a long time back and posted it. This is why the PE turbos need to really be boosted. Some shops gave the PE turbos a bad name because they could only get 20-30whp more then a VF. They are fools because they ran the turbos with the weak gate spring and had maybe 16-18 psi at the power peak. I started tuning them up correctly after PE told me that I need to have 1.7 to 1.8 KG Cm of boost at power peak. I ran mine up to 2.0 bar using the 19 psi gate spring. Found alot of power up there.

In my experience that wheel is worth about 40-50whp over the VF wheel in most cases. Pushed hard with a stiff gate you can see 60-70whp.

Sorry Clark, but you are the only one who is still touting the PE's. Show me a 400whp PE1820 since you say it can make 50-70whp more than a VF30/VF22. That or show me a 115-117mph trapping WRX with normal 3200lb weight and stock gearing. I've seen neither, so I don't believe the claims. The proof is in the pudding.

I ran 12.24 @ 117mph at 1.8 bar of boost on an older 1820, stock box and STI tmic. That was with a 2.4 sixty ft time. I have many cars in the 115-118mph range with 1820's. You gotta get that boost up and they gotta be tuned right. MAF flow numbers indicate actual flow of 38-40lbs a minute. The thing to remember is that I had two VF22's and ran the hell out of them at the drag strip for a year. So did Mike (kingpin). When I got the 1820 I would pull him up top and he had an FMIC and intake with more mods. My traps jumped up 5 mph almost off the bat. Show me a VF22 that has trapped in those ranges.. The highest trapping VF30 that I personaly know of is Big turkey. Its a car I tuned on C16 fuel and its full weight and he is a pretty big guy. That trap was 112-113mph at 340whp and 360ft lbs.




C

I think you will like the twin scroll. DEF sure has good luck with it. I tuned my car up to 20 psi on monday. 2nd gear and up nets bad clutch slippage... damn it. I turned it down to 17 and the clutch held. Was really wanting to make some Big boost nitrous pulls but it looks like that wont happen until the clutch is sorted out. Plus.. The AC went out in the car and its 115 degrees so it sits for a while anyways.

C

Exedy Twin-Plate = Good.

Not cheap, but good stuff seldom is. Once it's broken in and you get used to it, the only thing you notice is some clutch chatter when your left foot is down. And since it's not down for long, you really don't notice it. I get no driveline shudder and no involuntary 4-wheel burnouts. I've never stalled it. Get ready to dial that idle up another X rpm, though.

-Sean

I ran 12.24 @ 117mph at 1.8 bar of boost on an older 1820, stock box and STI tmic. That was with a 2.4 sixty ft time. I have many cars in the 115-118mph range with 1820's.

C

All boost, right? What did you dyno when you pulled the 117 trap? What kind of dyno?

thx
def

I ran 12.24 @ 117mph at 1.8 bar of boost on an older 1820, stock box and STI tmic. That was with a 2.4 sixty ft time. I have many cars in the 115-118mph range with 1820's.
Show me the slips and list the weights of the cars. I haven't seen ANYONE even near there. This is with stock gearing and GDA weight. If you look at the registry, no one is near that with turbos this small.

You can look at Scoobymile.com. I ran 12.2 back then with the stock motor and Utec. Stock airbox and an STI TMIC. The last time to the strip was with my RA 2.0. Stock box, STI TMIC, PE 650 injectors I think.. or did I have STI's back then.. cant remember.. Mike from Kingpin sat in the stands and watched me run 13.0 at 117 something with a 2.6 sixty. Then I ran a 12.24 @ 117 mph with a 2.4 sixty. Then I went home. Could not launch that night because of the 12 lb flywheel and me being rusty. Car would have sailed into the 11's on the next pass I bet. My car is 3380lbs on the scale at Firebird and I was 260lbs back then (218 now :))

I tuned Chess masters car to 311whp on the DD with new 1820. He left the shop, went to the strip in AZ and clicked off a 12.5 @ 115.8mph.

C

Just found a quote saying that Clark made ~310 whp w/old 1820 @ 1.8 bar on a Dyno Dynamics dyno. That equates to about 360-370 on a Dynapack or a Dynojet.

Clark is that true? I would like to see the graph if you still have it, just to see the power delivery.

def

DEF... My car made 290-313 whp on 91 octane fuel many times on the Dyno dynamics. But keep in mind that was with the RA engine (I know you have a hybrid motor). I remember making 323whp on 100 octane by pretty much just cranking the boost up. I know I through down 330whp at some point and then 360whp with spray (empty bottle with 50shot jets).

Keep in mind that the strongest VF30 car I have ever tuned on that exact same dyno was 267whp and that was on race gas maxed out (100 unleaded). Most VF30 cars on pump make 240-250whp. 1820's on 91 make 270-290whp. East coast scoobys 20G at 24 psi on C16 made 330whp on a stock EJ205. Chess master made 311 on the 1820 at around the same boost. 20G is worth 20-30whp over the 1820. Maybe more at 2.0 bar of boost... Just trying to show what various cars have done on that dyno.

My Car with the RA 2.0, DR500 FMIC and CAI, with PE650's through down 380 whp on boost alone. I ran 2.0 to 2.1 bar through the middle and it fell off to 1.7 or 1.8 from memory by 8000 rpm. I did not have the guts to spray on it because the tune was off. It was a Dyno day and I was just doing exhibition pulls.. Not time for real tuning.

I used to have all these plots online but the server went down and I lost them all. They might be on my home PC.


Cya


clark

BTW- there are 3 tracks in Arizona ranging in elevation from ~1,100 ft to ~3,100 ft.

Applying NHRA's less than perfect correction factors puts a 12.22 @ 117 down to:
12.06-11.76 @ 118.5-121.6 @ sea level.

Applying those to the 12.5 @ 115.8 yields:
12.34-12.03 @ 117.3-120.4 @ sea level.

I know, they aren't all that accurate for forced induction... but hey, I gotta do some sort of paper racing until I have REAL results!!

I normally run @ Cecil County Dragway and their at only 320ft! MIR is at 80ft I think... but their a little too far to drive too.

def

Def. I race at Speedworld motorplex and chess masters runs where done at Speedworld as well. I race at Firebird INTL raceway also but its well known that SPeedworld is the faster of the two tracks.

C

DEF... My car made 290-313 whp on 91 octane fuel many times on the Dyno dynamics. But keep in mind that was with the RA engine (I know you have a hybrid motor). I remember making 323whp on 100 octane by pretty much just cranking the boost up. I know I through down 330whp at some point and then 360whp with spray (empty bottle with 50shot jets).

So we'll say 300 on 91, 325 on 100. Interesting results.

Keep in mind that the strongest VF30 car I have ever tuned on that exact same dyno was 267whp and that was on race gas maxed out (100 unleaded). Most VF30 cars on pump make 240-250whp. 1820's on 91 make 270-290whp. East coast scoobys 20G at 24 psi on C16 made 330whp on a stock EJ205. Chess master made 311 on the 1820 at around the same boost. 20G is worth 20-30whp over the 1820. Maybe more at 2.0 bar of boost... Just trying to show what various cars have done on that dyno.

I see where you are getting the 60-70 whp from now. Thanks... it helps to see these numbers!

My Car with the RA 2.0, DR500 FMIC and CAI, with PE650's through down 380 whp on boost alone. I ran 2.0 to 2.1 bar through the middle and it fell off to 1.7 or 1.8 from memory by 8000 rpm. I did not have the guts to spray on it because the tune was off. It was a Dyno day and I was just doing exhibition pulls.. Not time for real tuning.

380 on a DD? What turbo was this? Not the 1820, right?

Thanks again!
def

This was with the GT30R. I was thumbing around and found a few 1820 plots of my car and a 370whp pull on the GT30R at 23 psi no nitrous. I also found a 340whp pull on the 1820 with a note that says "spray time" so I must have used a 50 shot that day. I will get them up on the server and post them for fun.

Clark

Here are a few Dyno graphs. Its all I could find man on this work PC.

Not to proud of these.. AVCS was not wired up and working so there was lots of lag. I ran the flashed AG970 ECU with a Utec on top with 3.1 code. I had no time to tune it..

This is with C16:

RA 2.0
DR500
PE650's
GT30R-12

http://www.kingpinperformance.com/main/images/C16_hp_AF.jpg

Plot showing boost: Its really not that bad for only 22.5 psi!

http://www.kingpinperformance.com/main/images/C16_HP_MAP.jpg

Here is 91 octane Chevron gas.. OH my was the top end of my map way off :) hehe. I some issues with that map.. Wish I could have worked them out. Notice the top end lean out of AFR.. PE pump was out of steam. Walbro fixed that.

http://www.kingpinperformance.com/main/images/91oct_hp_AF.jpg

Hp and trq on 91 octane:

http://www.kingpinperformance.com/main/images/91oct_hp_trq.jpg

I cant get the 1820/nos pull uploaded... Will post that in a few minutes when I figure it out. These numbers should be a solid 40whp off a Dynojet and 40-50 off a Hub dyno depending on the shop.

C

forgot to mention this was with GTspec headers. Went back to stock ported headers and and retuned. Then got 14 psi by 4300 rpm vs 5300 of these pulls. That helped the midrage a bit :) With my 2.5 I get 14 by 3300.

C

Here is the only 1820 pull I have in elec format:

RA 2.0 block
100 unleaded mixed with 91 octane. I think I fugured about 95octane.
Old 1820
Almost empty bottle.. on a 50hp NOS wet kit. I think it gave me 20-30whp where it normally gave me 50-60whp gain on a full bottle.
Stock Airbox
STI TMIC
STI pinks
BPM turboback.

http://www.kingpinperformance.com/main/images/pic00007.jpg

C

Show me the slips and list the weights of the cars. I haven't seen ANYONE even near there. This is with stock gearing and GDA weight. If you look at the registry, no one is near that with turbos this small.
i KNOW dan(Triple X) ran 12.03 @ 115 with an 1820, stock gearing, stock block, stock heads

with an intercooler that was WAY to damn big for that turbo

i KNOW dan(Triple X) ran 12.03 @ 115 with an 1820, stock gearing, stock block, stock heads

with an intercooler that was WAY to damn big for that turbo

New style or old?

New style or old?
err, old style, 20cm housing

funny I stumbled onto this thread, I just picked up a 37 and was aboutto send it to Jerry for the same thing! :lol:

but Im actually just sending him the 37 turbine and having him fit an entire VF22 with PE wheel into it, then I get the roller bearing and larger compressor housing too;)

Here is the only 1820 pull I have in elec format:

RA 2.0 block
100 unleaded mixed with 91 octane. I think I fugured about 95octane.
Old 1820
Almost empty bottle.. on a 50hp NOS wet kit. I think it gave me 20-30whp where it normally gave me 50-60whp gain on a full bottle.
Stock Airbox
STI TMIC
STI pinks
BPM turboback.

http://www.kingpinperformance.com/main/images/pic00007.jpg

C



wow. I seriously did not know that the 1820 was capable of such numbers? So Clark, I remember you saying sometime back that the new 1820F would get just as much power as the old style on pump gas but have less lag due to a more properly sized compressor, is my memory correct? Do you have access to any dynos of the 1818F/1820F?

Thanks again for your contribution to the community,
Ambert

Ambert,
After tuning both new and old My revised statement between the two is about the same as the original. I can make more power on pump with the new style turbo and I can make more power at less boost pressure. The older turbo uses the larger RX6 comp cover that is no longer available. Because of this its larger AR more boost pressure was required but you can make more power with the older larger housing. The newer housing is more responsive, comes on faster and works great from 16-21 psi range. The older turbo really needs 20-26 psi to shine..

Clark

What exhaust side does the VF22 have? How does it compare to the VF30 size?

I am thinking the VF30 exhaust wheel is probably the same size as the VF36/37s... just curious as to what improvement may be realized by stuffing the VF22 exhaust wheel in there... assuming its much larger.

More lag I guess... more top end... hmmm... it will be interesting to see our results.

def

do it! hurry up! :-P

do it! hurry up! :-P

Deadbolt has had the VF37 for almost a week... should be ready to send back next week... hopefully.

def

I am under the impression that you cant use a standard IHI exhaust wheel in that Hot side... The 22 uses the P20 just like the PE1820. I would clip that wheel but thats me.. I like top end :)

C

I had the exhaust side off... theres nothing special in regard to the wheel...its the housing itself that makes it twinscroll.

It does look like some minor machining would allow a larger wheel to fit.

as for the P20 and P18 thing... what does the VF30 have?

I had the exhaust side off... theres nothing special in regard to the wheel...its the housing itself that makes it twinscroll.

It does look like some minor machining would allow a larger wheel to fit.

as for the P20 and P18 thing... what does the VF30 have?

heres my 37 blown apart, I'll bet a dollar that its just a VF30 with a twin scroll turbine housing, I talked with Jerry at Deadbolt who said the 22 could be machined to fit into it, he even checked to see if an 18G would fit in( :D ) but too big.

BTW the VF30/34 use a P18 turbine

http://img9.paintedover.com/uploads/9/picture_169.jpg

Thought these VF37 twin scroll pictures might help answer some of the questions plus help add to the tread.



http://www.iaperformance.com/specialsImages/full_Copy%20of%20DCP_2797.JPG



http://www.iaperformance.com/specialsImages/full_Copy%20of%20DCP_2798.JPG



http://www.iaperformance.com/specialsImages/full_Copy%20of%20DCP_2799.JPG



Stephen

www.IAPERFORMANCE.com

Subaru Audio Upgrades, Click the Subaru

http://www.iaperformance.com/images/iasignature.gif (http://www.iaperformance.com)

VF36/37 basically have VF30/34 wheels.

Thats good news! I would see if they could stuff in a GT30R-11 cartridge into that housing.... That would kick ass.

C

If they can't fit an 18g, good luck with a GT30R-11... :)

Its called Garrett Compressor housing. Ditch the little IHI... All we are doing here is mating up the CHRA to the Turbine housing. If the housing has meat to fit the turbine wheel we are all set :)

C

That is true. Duh. I only one run of these things.

Of course, IHI housings are kind of cute - they would make good paperweights. They just have NO business near a real turbo.

Though I wouldn't mind one of the 45psi at 2000 rpm monsters they make for WRC.

-Sean

So basically there are a couple of different options for beefing up the vf36/37? I was under the impression from a couple of months back that you could only mod the 37 and not the 36 due to the ball bearing design?

DEF- can the place you got the turbo from get any more or still have some left at that price? I don't wanna chance my new 37! Also i still wanna know what parts you used in making the kitty less downpipe so i can get that rolling.
Thanks

Brent

Ron @ Axis sent me a laser cut flange... I then took an Invidia bellmouth downpipe and lined things up as best I could and had it all welded together. Been working great!

fyi- the laser cut flange is welded overtop the Invidia flange... this way offered up the most material to insure a leak free hi-flow fit.

As for modded the VF36, I am not sure about that. Deadbolt would be the best to ask that one to.

I dickered with a company on eBay. They orginally had 4 or so up for $375 + ~$50 shipping. I asked them to do $350 shipped (cause I knew they weren't in high demand)... they declined, so after they reposted it 2 or 3 times and lowered the price.... I aksed them to do $275 shipped... and they were cool with that.

anyway, search eBay for it... e-mail that company.

def

Its called Garrett Compressor housing. Ditch the little IHI... All we are doing here is mating up the CHRA to the Turbine housing. If the housing has meat to fit the turbine wheel we are all set :)

C

I think Big was refering to my post where I mentioned that there wasnt enough room to machine an 18G would into the 37 turbine housing, but maybe the GT30 would fit, if so then Id be all over it:cool:

Hey dug-e-fresh, are you saying you left the Indivia flange on and welded the laser cut flange on top of that, or did you cut off the original flange and weld on the new one.

Did you ever get this turbo back and on yet? I would like to know more about it.
B

Bump for any news on the turbo?

waiting for more info myself :)

Jerry contacted me today. I am having the exhaust and compressor housings ceramic coated, however they cant coat if greater than 50% humidity. They have been getting alot of rain and not been able to coat the turbo.

Its done, just waiting on good weather! :) Jerry tells me there are looking for som de-humidifiers to help things along. Hopefully I will have it back within a week or so. Check back for updates.

def

doug - PM'd you...

great thread BTW - lots of useful info for my research

Can anything be done with the P25 exhaust housing? Upgrade wise or is just the compressor section upgradeable?.

I was gonna look into having it clipped, and there was some talk about cramming a VF22 exhaust wheel in there.... otherwise, until its actually done, with good results... I am leaving the exhaust side alone, save some exhaust inlet porting.

def

Jerry says the P20 turbine will not fit in there.

Jerry says the P20 turbine will not fit in there.

Good to know... now, I wonder about the clipping.... hmmmm???

def

Specifically when I asked about upgrading the exhaust side he said
The VF37 uses the P25 turbine housing, dual entry for twinscroll, the P20 housing will not fit on it. THe PE1820 and PE1825 use the same compressor wheel. and
No the turbine wheel on the VF37 is a bit smaller, and very different in the areas where it passes through the cartridge.
Still, big 1820 compressor with smaller more efficient exhaust side, AND twin scrolled sounds like a recipie for a really hard boost hit and long lasting too boot. We'll see.

Keep us posted. I'm sending mine in too.

Specifically when I asked about upgrading the exhaust side he said
and

Still, big 1820 compressor with smaller more efficient exhaust side, AND twin scrolled sounds like a recipie for a really hard boost hit and long lasting too boot. We'll see.

Keep us posted. I'm sending mine in too.

yeah Jerry already confirmed for me that the 22 would fit into the P25 turbine with a bit of machining, at this point thouh I think it will be a bit more cost efective to find a good used 1820(about 1K) instead of buying a VF22+big wheel+upgraded actuator, since it would be the same amount but the PE also has BB center too. If anyone has one for cheap let me know;)

So which turbo would be a better base to start off with the vf 37 non ball bearing or the vf36 ball bearing one? I'm guessing there probably wouldn't be much difference almost like comparing the vf 30 to the 34.
B

So which turbo would be a better base to start off with the vf 37 non ball bearing or the vf36 ball bearing one? I'm guessing there probably wouldn't be much difference almost like comparing the vf 30 to the 34.
B

I am thinking the same thing. Not much difference.

def

So with what we all know now about how much power this will make, will this top out the sti pinks or will they provide enough fuel? What about the stock jdm sti rails? How about the maf sensor?
Would there be anything else i'm not thinking of that might need upgrading as a result of the improved turbo?
B

As much power that I've seen made on the stock MAF, noway this will max it out... assuming its properly tuned.

The pinks should be fine. I knwo on C16 the pinks can support upper 300 whp on dynapacs. Mikaust made 365 whp with pinks and a topmount. When he went frontmount, pretty sure that made him good for ~380 whp or so. The pinks did fine... they were VERY close to being maxed out however.

While I'd love to see that much power from this modified VF37.... I seriously doubt it will make much more than 350 whp. Nothing to scoff at... but surely not pushing the limits of anything save the WRX 5spd.

def

Cool, thanks for the input! Now get that thing on there and rush to the dyno so we can all get a woody.
B

What dyno are oyu on dug?

dynapac

Anything yet?!! Did you get to go to the showndown with this setup? How about the one that's comming up?
B

Alright... it came in yesterday. Looks sweet.... great job on the ceramic coatings and the intake inlet is polished to a mirror finish!

The exhaust side porting is sweet too!

BUT... I've come to a descision... while this most definitely will put me into the 11s, and will be an AWESOME street turbo... after driving Mikaust's externally wastegated FP green all last weekend.... I want something bigger.

I am not even gonna try to install this, and instead plan to sell this turbo AND my entire twinscroll set-up, including oil pan if need be.

Sorry for the change of events... but I want something at the very LEAST the size of a Green... I guess its the dragracer in me!! lol!

Sooo... if anyone is interested in this pseudo-1825 turbo, or my current VF36 set-up w/uppipe, 3 inch downpipe/midpipe, equal length factory twinscroll manifold AND oilpan.... drop me a PM, 'cause its ALL for sale as of now!!

I wont be putting this into the FS Classifieds just yet... but thtas where I'll be heading soon...

thanks!
def

The drag racer in you wants the T67.. trust me.. its Plenty big..

C

Alright... it came in yesterday. Looks sweet.... great job on the ceramic coatings and the intake inlet is polished to a mirror finish!

The exhaust side porting is sweet too!

BUT... I've come to a descision... while this most definitely will put me into the 11s, and will be an AWESOME street turbo... after driving Mikaust's externally wastegated FP green all last weekend.... I want something bigger.

I am not even gonna try to install this, and instead plan to sell this turbo AND my entire twinscroll set-up, including oil pan if need be.

Sorry for the change of events... but I want something at the very LEAST the size of a Green... I guess its the dragracer in me!! lol!

Sooo... if anyone is interested in this pseudo-1825 turbo, or my current VF36 set-up w/uppipe, 3 inch downpipe/midpipe, equal length factory twinscroll manifold AND oilpan.... drop me a PM, 'cause its ALL for sale as of now!!

I wont be putting this into the FS Classifieds just yet... but thtas where I'll be heading soon...

thanks!
def

Me thinks you should put it on since you went to all this trouble just to do it. So you would be willing to give up the spool times for another 50 or so hp?
B

Me thinks you should put it on since you went to all this trouble just to do it. So you would be willing to give up the spool times for another 50 or so hp?
B

Well... spool is nice and all, but I'm thinking that I'd be picking up more than 50hp... I'm looking for another 100 or so ;)

a T67 would be fun... I have a friend of mine selling a T61 from an LS1... he he he... talk about BIG! Supra owners would envy this thing... I am pretty sure that my little 2.0 would choke on it... unless I could rev to 10k or so lol!

def

That's too bad you are selling dug. The twinscroll has been my favorite flavor for what I'm doing but I've not been able to afford the setup. I was just going to live vicariously through you but now I can't ><. I'd love to buy, but I just paid for my V7 and I'll need transmission funds soon, I think.

-Jon

dug-e-fresh, Interisted in the turbo and the DP! PM'ed you with contact info.

where did this pe1825 clone go?

inquiring minds want to know.

lol good question

id like to know the numbers it put down with whoever has it. ive been contemplating this setup for months now but havent had the time or money to do it.

I believe thesmokingman bought the clone from Doug.

i am very interested in this whole idea. So let me recount whats going on, your basically taking a vf37, sending it to deadbolt to get a pe1825 wheel put inside and get all the additional works done. How much awhp is this good for? Also will this turbo have a nice top end?

The 1825 clone should be good for 400-425 at the flywheel, compared to about 375 for the VF37. Qualifying what's a "nice" top end is a littl difficult, but it will have more steam than the 39 or 37 for sure.

Trouth be told, my VF37 builds power all the way until redline @ 7K, where the VF39 will start to fall off past 6K. I think the twinscroll exhaust housing is slightly less restrictive by design.

we have one sitting on my desk actually. Big sucker compared to the VF37. CUstom twin scroll pipe work should be completed in the next few weeks, then tuning. I believe it is called the CP32, GT series are ball bearing where as the 32 series is cartidge bearing.

***Note: We will be changing handle names over to IA Performance in the month of Oct. Same great service, but a more recognizable handle name :D

Stephen
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has anyone tested or tried the crawford performance gt32 twin scroll turbo. The thing looks sick!

up :D

has anyone tested or tried the crawford performance gt32 twin scroll turbo. The thing looks sick!


PDX had some graphs comparing it to a green. It was pretty impresive, it has a 44lb/min wheel or you can go with a 51lb/min wheel for a bit more power.

typer:
375 sounds a bit high, but I guess it depends on the motor, def had his VF36 at 320 whp / 273 wtq @ 18 psi on his 207. He said that going over 18psi didn't do much to increase power.

East Coast Scooby:
What wheel does you 32 have in it; 44 or 51?

I've put down 355 whp on a mustang dyno with my version 8 swap. All stock motor with just a turbo back and a utec. I believe i was running about 19 psi on race gas brew at sealevel.
Everyone that sees the number thinks it's high, but that's what the dyno said, so that's what i'm going with. I would think a bigger wheel could have some nice gains in it. Probably nothing to post any serious numbers, but still really good ones. I would guess if i upgraded the turbo on my car ( all jdm version 8 gear install in a 96 legacy) it could run high 11's.

typer:
375 sounds a bit high, but I guess it depends on the motor, def had his VF36 at 320 whp / 273 wtq @ 18 psi on his 207. He said that going over 18psi didn't do much to increase power.


My 375 esitimate is at the flywheel, not at the wheels. That's probably why it sounded high to you. ;)

The VF37/36 really doesn't have much more peak top end than the VF39, maybe 10-15 more. It just doesn't fall off like the 39 does.

agreed,

the vf 37 when properly tuned does pack a punch, alot more than the vf39 at low end depending on how the car is driven... a stock vf39 is no match for the vf37.

I was thinking about finding someone who would fabricate an exhaust housing for a gt35r and making it into a twin scroll setup... is this possible? i discussed this with a few people today at a local shop after observing an sti thats putting on the greddy t-67 kit... would a a twin scroll up-pipe work at that length for a side mounted turbo?... would that cause heating issues or leaning out with so much piping near the engine block?

- another thing i was thinking about was the fact that since a gt35r sits so far away from the up-pipe by being side mounted and on top of the left rear side of the engine, would that eliminate the advantage of having a twin scroll setup by increasing pipe lag between the up pipe and exhaust side of the turbo? ......did i confuse anyone?

i'll try and draw an illustration tomorrow - too tired to draw right now...

kory

www.freewebtown.com/deathinacan66 (http://www.freewebtown.com/deathinacan66) - twin scroll crazy..

yea, I dyno'ed 320/273 on Turbo XS's supposedly high reading dyno... and then went out and trapped 114-115 with that turbo (VF36). It's definitely a bad little dude. I have yet to come across a VF (an untouched/modded one) that matches those numbers.

Most argued at the time (2 years ago this month), that there was noway I was making only 320... that I HAD to be somewhere north of 360whp. But, it was what it was.

def

One other thing to look into if you like the twin scroll idea is the Garrett 32 turbo. It is truely twin scroll. The modified CP32 (crawford performance 32) should be capable of mid to upper 400 whp.

The money needed to cast a new exhaust housing, for say a GT35, is huge. Anything is possible with enough money though :D

Stephen

mmm even say... a team with an army sponsored budget?... hehe... of course after fabrication is complete, marketing i think would be a given...

would an exhaust housing for a gt35r be made to fit even say a gt40r without much modification?...

kory

www.freewebtown.com/deathinacan66

yea, I dyno'ed 320/273 on Turbo XS's supposedly high reading dyno... and then went out and trapped 114-115 with that turbo (VF36). It's definitely a bad little dude. I have yet to come across a VF (an untouched/modded one) that matches those numbers.

Most argued at the time (2 years ago this month), that there was noway I was making only 320... that I HAD to be somewhere north of 360whp. But, it was what it was.

def

What's funny are the people with modded STis putting out 290WHP/320+tq and they still don't trap near your crazy 12.01. Not to say their cars are slow just that better heads and higher rev limit are nice. It goes to show the area under the curve matters and not the peak WHP/TQ number, oh and a 5 speed is better in the 1/4 mile ;)

So where did this turbo end up? Any dyno results?

^^Ya Im interested in this to

So where did this turbo end up? Any dyno results?

Sold to another member... untested by me. I don't know how much power it made or whether or not it was ever ran at the track...

def

okay, thanks for the update anyway...