Element Tuning Hydra Installed!!! Long [Archive]

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CK02WRX

08-21-2004, 01:37 AM

I installed it today and got it running after a little from Phil of Element Tuning via telephone. My setup is different from any that Phil has tuned so far (w/ the Hydra) so I had to try a few of his tuned maps before I found one that would start my car and idle good enough to be able to begin tuning start-up and idle. I spent a lot of time on the phone with Phil today and without his help I would never have been able to get the car to start or idle. I'm glad I purchased the Hydra from one of Phil's vendors (Worldone Performance) because by doing so you get Phil for custom service. Once I got it to start and idle, I then took it for a ride. The acceleration was very smooth. There was none of the "herky jerky" that the stock ecu has and it was great to not have that annoying stumble related to the Utec when it takes over control from the stock ecu. My wife made a comment that it feels like the engine is doing less work. Keep in mind that she knows nothing about cars and what she ment was that its really smooth and feels like a stock vehicle. I had to ask her what she ment because I had no idea what she was talking about with the less work statment. I'm currently running 13psi (wastegate boost) until I recieve the WB next week. I can't wait to start tuning the fuel so I can crank up the boost. I have tuned a few utecs including my own (several times) and I don't consider myself to be anywhere near an expert. So, if you fall in to the same category as I do and you want a hydra I suggest you not mess with any settings until you have a chance to talk to Phil. That being said, once Phil walks you through the program and settings it is not that hard to get use to. Like tuning a utec, the fuel and timing are very similar but the start-up and Idle are a whole different story. Once you get that nailed you should have no worries. If you are running a 2.0 with one of the popular setups ie (550cc or modded injectors, a vf30-34, PE1820, FP20G, Fp green) Phil probably has a map that will start your car, make it idle and be darn close on the fuel. The timing maps are nailed and you shouldn't have to touch them. I only had a few small snags trying to get the car to start and idle but most of that is due to my setup. I haven't had much time with the hydra but so far its been awesome and I recommend it if you want total control and know what to do with it. I also recommend you buy it through Phil or one of his dealers like Worldone Performance that why you not only get a great product but also excellent customer service.

Later,
Corey

John Sever

08-21-2004, 01:41 AM

So whats your setup? Inquiring minds wanna know:)

CK02WRX

08-21-2004, 01:44 AM

So whats your setup? Inquiring minds wanna know:)

<---------------

What makes it a little different is the Pe650's on the 257 longblock. The Pe's have been a pain since I got them.

CK02WRX

08-23-2004, 12:28 PM

I dropped the idle to 760rmp and it's really smooth. I think most with the Hydra are idling around 950rmp which is a little high for my taste. Hopefully I'll get the WBo2 this week and get fuel curve nailed. I also look forward to wiring the AVCS for the first time. :banana: :banana:

Element Tuning

08-23-2004, 05:55 PM

Congratulations! Idling at 750 rpm is no problem once you have the AFR dialed in for that vacuum and rpm. Looks like you're getting the hang of things in short order.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

kenlee

08-23-2004, 08:45 PM

dwx

08-23-2004, 09:26 PM

I should have the Hydra soon (tommorrow?) but my engine is still not back in the car. I'm using an EJ257 w/V8 heads with AVCS. Previously I was using a V8 ECU retuned by Trey Cobb, which I liked a lot, I just need a little more flexibility. With that ECU my throttle response was amazing, if the Hydra can duplicate that then I'll be happy.

CK02WRX

08-24-2004, 12:21 AM

I'm planning on buying a piggyback in the next week. I'd considered the hydra, but wasn't there something that you couldn't do with it that the utec still works with? I think it was something like the a/c or something non engine related. :confused:
If you have a STI you loose cruise control. There might be plans to fix that but I'm not sure. On the WRX the cruise control still works. That is probably what you are refering to. The AC works on both. Also, the Hydra is a standalone.

CK02WRX

08-24-2004, 12:23 AM

dwx

08-24-2004, 12:27 PM

I'm also using PE650 injectors, Phil had mentioned that he's tuned three cars with the Hydra with PE650s and they all behaved differently.

CK02WRX

08-25-2004, 08:46 AM

You'll be able to get it started and running on one of his pe maps but you'll probably have to mess with the ISC settings to get it to idle smoothly. You willl also have to tune the whole fuel map. Mine runs extremly rich but I'll be able to fix that with the auto-tune feature. The auto-tune is going to be much quicker than having to log a pull, then look at the log , make changes, and log agian. I'm hoping the WB gets here this week so I can tune the cruise RPM's for fuel economy and then do WOT at wastegate boost (13psi) and work my way up to 20psi. I also have some VP C16 but I think I'll be pushing my stock 5-speed hard enough at 20psi on 93oct. I still haven't ran more the 16.5 psi on this engine yet, and it would hold that all the way to the redline. I'm excited to see what will happen when I run 20+ psi on the FP18G 8cm^2 turbo. I also need to check my idle afr because I think my stock o2 sensor needs to be replaced.

Element Tuning

08-25-2004, 11:58 AM

I think I have a grasp on what needs to be done to the maps for the PE injectors which should require less fine tuning of the idle. All of the PE tuning was done on a 2.0 liter engine and there just needs to be more fuel in the start zones for the 2.5 so I've modified that area of the map and have updated DWX's map (which I will send to you).

Whenever I notice any large variance for a set of modifications I'll usually take the cautious route and send the map out rich. But the beauty of the WB AutoTune feature is that is capable of tuning the fuel curve so quickly it's hardly an issue.

Because Element has an in depth knowledge of not only the computer but the mapping, if at any point you're struggling I can walk you through getting it smoothed out over the phone.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

CK02WRX

08-25-2004, 10:14 PM

My start up and idle have been awesome since you helped me over the phone and got me headed in the right direction. Now I'm ready to do some auto tuning and get the boost up. :D

CK02WRX

08-26-2004, 08:47 PM

Edit
I had swapped the rear o2 sensor to the front bung because the front o2 sensor is not used with the hydra. I will be putting the rear sensor back where it's supposed to be because the egts are hotter up front and the sensor is not in its normal operating temp. The reason I moved it was so I could use the rear spot for the NTK WB sensor. I think I'm going to get rid of the narrow band and use the NTK WB for closed loop and tuning. If it last 20,000 miles on 93oct I'll be happy and consider it worth the $180-$200 for a replacement sensor.

I posted this a few months back but here it is again.Hydra software (http://www.mrcontrols.com/downloads/nemesis.zip)
It's a slightly different version than what comes with the hydra. Some of the changes that I noticed in the new software are: you can change the angle of the 3D map and the gauges at the bottom are no long there. However if you install the new software over the old the gauges are still there but I have not checked to see if they work. There are probably a few other change I didn't notice.

CK02WRX

09-01-2004, 06:45 PM

Element Tuning

09-02-2004, 11:33 AM

WBo2 was shipped from Hydra-ems and I should recieve it on Sept 8th. When I get it and have a chance to tune I'll give more info on the Auto tune, closed loop using the WB for light load area, closed loop using the WB target tables, and the logger. Both of the stock o2 sensors will be removed and I will be using the NTK WBo2 100% of the time in the rear o2 sensor location. Everthing is still running great.

When you recieve your WB give me a call and I'll make sure you understand the process. Here is a little info I posted elsewhere:

Short Term Trim: Constantly makes minor adjustments of fueling to reach 14.7 AFR during a drive cycle under light load conditions while using the factory 02 sensor.
Long Term Trim: Makes major long term change to reach 14.7 AFR during a drive cycle under light load conditions while using the factory 02 sensor.

So for instance if under a given RPM and a given load your fuel map is off by -7%, the “LTT” will add +7% more fuel. The “STT” will make minor adjustments as needed to maintain 14.7 AFR if +7% is no longer the appropriate adjustment. Fuel trims are defined during a given drive cycle but once the car is turned off both the “STT” and the “LTT” are set back to zero. You can use the “LTT” table (logs trims) to manually correct the fuel map under light load.

If you have purchased the WB/AutoTune option you can use your “AFR Target” table to define the AFR under light load conditions instead of being limited to 14.7 AFR.

The “AutoTune” feature makes permanent fuel corrections to all load ranges defined in your “Closed Loop” settings. The AFR target is set in the “AFR Target” table. You should turn off “Long Term Trim” while using “AutoTune” as these temporary changes will inhibit the permanent tuning process (too many chefs in the kitchen so to speak).

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

CK02WRX

09-09-2004, 02:00 AM

I got the wideband on the 8th and I was going to wait until the 9th to start tuning, but I couldn't wait. I don't have logs to show you how fast the autotune is because you have to export the logs to excel and I don't have excel on the computer in my car. I might put it on tomarrow if I have time. Well, the autotune was almost dead on the target after 2 pulls from 2000 rpm -7200 rpm. After 1 pull the AFR was about 2 points off the target and after the second pull it was dead on or 1 point off. I notiiced a few small knocks in a few pulls I did today. They were so small that the Hydra was pulling less than 1 deg and one time it pulled .1 deg. I'm not sure if it knocked or if the Hydra was just preventing knock. I did not get any flashing CEL. One thing I did notice was that the Hydra was showing 15psi and my boost gauge was showing almost 16psi. This seems normal because when I had a utec it was about the same. The tuning went really fast. Do 3-4 pulls, turn the boost up, and repeat until you hit all the load zones under WOT. 2 pulls was fine most of the time but I did a few more just to make sure everything was okay. I only had time (wife) to tune from 12 psi to 15 psi. After doing only one pull at12psi, I could tell the car was accelerating faster and smoother.

CK02WRX

09-10-2004, 01:56 AM

I did a little more tuning today. 18psi @ 3400rpm 3rd gear and drops to 16pst at 7200rpm. I love the autotune, it so easy. I have noticed that the pre set-up wideband target table for the autotune is a tad to lean for my engine. Some of the high rmp spots are 11-11.2 AFR and I noticed that mine seems to like 10.7-10.9 AFR. So I changed the target map did and did a 2 pulls, then logged a pull and it was dead on.

Element Tuning

09-10-2004, 11:06 AM

The AutoTune will really spoil you since it works so well! It sure beats manually making all those changes.

Here's what an Element Hydra log looks like in case anyone is interested.

Time coolant AFR (rpm) tps (psi) speed knock air duty knock boost cell cell fuel advance
ramp temp cycle ret valve X Y pulse
1:25:03 PM 93 14.1 3,000.00 102 10.6 47 1.1 60 28.4 0 77.2 18 7 10.9 14
1:25:03 PM 93 13.5 3,100.00 102 12.2 48 0.8 60 31.6 0 75.6 18 7 12.2 13
1:25:04 PM 93 12.1 3,200.00 102 14.7 51 0.7 59 37.2 0 71.6 20 8 13.1 11
1:25:04 PM 93 11.6 3,300.00 102 15.7 52 1.2 59 39.6 0 70.8 21 8 13.8 11
1:25:04 PM 93 11.4 3,350.00 102 16.3 53 0.9 58 41.2 0 70.4 21 9 14.7 12
1:25:04 PM 93 11.1 3,400.00 102 16.3 55 0.6 58 45.2 0 69.6 22 9 14.7 12
1:25:04 PM 93 10.9 3,500.00 102 17.3 56 1.3 57 48.8 0 69.6 22 9 15.4 12
1:25:04 PM 93 10.9 3,600.00 102 17.9 57 1 56 47.2 0 68.4 22 10 15.7 13
1:25:05 PM 93 10.9 3,650.00 102 17.9 58 1 55 50 0 68.4 22 10 15.7 13
1:25:05 PM 92 11.1 3,800.00 102 17.9 60 1 55 52 0 68.4 22 11 16 13
1:25:05 PM 92 11 3,900.00 102 17.9 61 1.3 54 56 0 67.2 23 11 16.3 12
1:25:05 PM 93 10.6 3,950.00 102 18.2 63 1.1 53 60 0 66.4 23 12 17.3 13
1:25:06 PM 93 10.4 4,150.00 102 18.9 65 1 52 63.2 0 66 23 12 17 13
1:25:06 PM 93 10.5 4,250.00 102 18.6 67 1.6 51 63.6 0 66.8 22 13 17.3 14
1:25:06 PM 93 10.6 4,350.00 102 18.9 69 1.2 51 66.8 0 65.6 23 13 17.3 14
1:25:06 PM 93 10.6 4,450.00 102 17.9 71 1.2 50 70.4 0 66.4 23 14 17.6 15
1:25:07 PM 93 10.9 4,550.00 102 18.2 72 1.2 49 71.2 0 66.8 23 14 17.3 15
1:25:07 PM 93 10.9 4,650.00 102 18.9 73 1.2 48 72.4 0 66 23 15 17.6 15
1:25:07 PM 93 10.7 4,750.00 102 18.6 75 1.3 48 73.2 0 66.8 22 15 17.3 15
1:25:07 PM 93 10.7 4,800.00 102 19.2 77 1.1 47 76.4 0 65.6 23 16 17.6 16
1:25:07 PM 93 10.6 4,950.00 102 18.9 78 0.9 47 77.6 0 66.4 23 16 17.3 16
1:25:08 PM 93 10.6 5,050.00 102 18.6 79 0.9 46 80.4 0 67.2 23 17 17.3 17
1:25:08 PM 93 10.9 5,200.00 102 18.9 82 1 46 84 0 67.6 22 18 17.9 18
1:25:08 PM 93 10.9 5,300.00 102 17.9 83 1 45 82.4 0 69.2 22 18 17.3 18
1:25:08 PM 93 10.9 5,350.00 102 18.2 85 0.9 45 81.6 0 68.4 22 18 17.3 18
1:25:09 PM 93 10.7 5,450.00 102 17.9 86 1.4 45 87.6 0 69.2 23 19 18.2 19
1:25:09 PM 93 10.9 5,600.00 102 17.9 88 1 44 88.4 0 69.2 22 20 17.6 20
1:25:09 PM 93 10.6 5,700.00 102 17.9 90 1.1 44 88 0 69.2 22 20 18.2 20
1:25:09 PM 93 10.9 5,800.00 102 17.3 92 0.9 43 90.4 0 69.6 22 21 17.9 20
1:25:09 PM 93 10.9 5,900.00 102 18.2 93 1.4 43 90.4 0 69.2 22 21 17.6 20
1:25:10 PM 93 10.9 6,000.00 102 17.3 95 1.5 43 92.4 0 70.4 22 22 17.9 21
1:25:10 PM 93 10.9 6,100.00 102 17.3 97 1.1 42 96.4 0 69.6 22 22 17.9 21
1:25:10 PM 93 11 6,300.00 102 17.9 100 1 41 96.8 0 70.4 21 23 17.9 21
1:25:11 PM 93 11 6,350.00 102 17 102 1 41 100.8 0 70.8 22 24 18.2 21
1:25:11 PM 93 11.1 6,450.00 102 17.3 102 1 41 102 0 70.4 22 24 18.2 21
1:25:11 PM 93 11.1 6,550.00 102 17.3 104 1.3 41 102 0 69.6 22 24 17.6 21
1:25:11 PM 93 11.1 6,600.00 102 17 105 1.2 40 102 0 70.4 21 25 18.6 20
1:25:11 PM 93 11.2 6,700.00 102 17.9 106 1.3 40 102 0 70.4 22 25 17.6 20
1:25:12 PM 93 11.1 6,750.00 102 16.6 107 1.8 40 102 0 69.6 22 26 18.6 20
1:25:12 PM 93 11.1 6,850.00 102 17.6 108 1.8 40 102 0 70.8 22 26 18.9 20
1:25:12 PM 94 11.1 6,900.00 102 17.9 110 1.5 40 102 0 69.2 22 26 18.2 20
1:25:12 PM 94 11.1 7,000.00 102 17.6 111 1.4 40 102 0 70.4 22 26 17.6 20

This was on an WRX using 550cc injectors and an VF34.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

bboy

09-10-2004, 02:27 PM

Maybe upgrading the injectors and fuel pump even with the stock turbo would be an improvement and serve as staging for future turbo upgrade. It will not be the first time I've heard that the stock injectors are the limiting component in the system.

Element Tuning

09-10-2004, 04:39 PM

deleted

bboy

09-10-2004, 07:27 PM

I know, it's freaking me out that the 800cc injectors are reaching 100% duty cycle and you are only running ~2-3 psi more boost than a stock turbo. Other's have observed maxed out stock injectors with delta dash or UTEC logging, but this is the first time I've seen maxed out 800-850cc injectors. It's nuts, you just aren't running that much more boost than stock.

Other's have questioned the IDC in Delta Dash. Is it 100% of 80% actual duty cycle? This is because people were observing readings to 110%+ IDC. It should not be possible.

Now I wonder the same for the Element: is that duty cycle an actual pulse frequency divided by maximum pulse frequency, or is it some reference to the 80% IDC limit?

Element Tuning

09-10-2004, 07:41 PM

It has more to do with CFM than boost pressure. For instance a Garrett GT35 running 17 psi vs. the stock VF39 running 17 psi would not equal the same CFM. A GT35 is capable of 400 +whp at 17 psi where the VF39 would never come close to this power level. This is obviously just an example.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

bboy

09-10-2004, 08:53 PM

I've never had much luck understanding the 17 psi is not 17 psi argument. At the same temperature and RPM they should be exactly the same. I know the whole "you are wasting power by building heat in the turbo". Bigger turbo, blowing more efficiently should be blowing cooler air at 17 psi than the VF39--as it sputters to redline. So I can see that your 1820 is more efficient at that pressure ratio, and thus post-intercooler you have a cooler more dense charge to which you add more fuel for more power from the injectors.

But.....

If the stocker's are 480 cc/min and your Perrin mod's are 810 cc/min, you have 70% more capacity there in IDC, are you blowing 70% more air (even adjusted for temp) to max those injectors out? Maybe you are, that's 510 hp at the crank, congrats!

Element Tuning

09-11-2004, 03:52 AM

"I've never had much luck understanding the 17 psi is not 17 psi argument. At the same temperature and RPM they should be exactly the same."

Sorry to be blunt but you're just plain wrong. Compressor maps are only 1/2 of a turbocharger's effectiveness and a restrictive exhaust housing will increase back pressure, therefore preventing effective flow of exhaust gasses. No compressor chart will illustrate this to you. It comes with a basic understanding of the whole turbocharger system's relationship to the engine's flow requirements.

"So I can see that your 1820 is more efficient at that pressure ratio, and thus post-intercooler you have a cooler more dense charge to which you add more fuel for more power from the injectors."

This is not my turbocharger but a customer’s car. Again the 1820 has a p20 exhaust housing vs. the STI's p15 (I believe). If you keep cramming the boost in but it's not coming out the exhaust you won't be making much power. This is why you can make more power with less boost pressure by utilizing a larger exhaust housing. Just because boost pressure is lower doesn't mean the actual flow of air has decreased. Again this is all really basic stuff.

"If the stocker's are 480 cc/min and your Perrin mod's are 810 cc/min, you have 70% more capacity there in IDC, are you blowing 70% more air (even adjusted for temp) to max those injectors out? Maybe you are, that's 510 hp at the crank, congrats!"

This is not my car and these are not Perrin 810cc injectors. By the way I just realized I posted the wrong data log. This is from a 2.0 using 550cc injectors and a VF34. :lol: ummm sorry :p I’ve edited the original post to reflect this.

I still hope you learned something even though you were right about the injectors.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

lobelsteve

09-11-2004, 08:25 AM

"This was on an WRX using 550cc injectors and an VF34. "

"Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Element Tuning : Today at 02:54 AM. "

The important thing is there are vendors awake at 2:54 AM and posting. Awesome Phil, can't wait for a few more Hydra's to get on the road.

Element Tuning

09-11-2004, 11:35 AM

Often this is the only time I have a clear head and no one calling. LOL!

There are many people running the computers but they just don't post. For some the amount of control is intimidating so at this early stage of the game they're just not comfortable offering advice etc. They will call and say, "thank you it runs awesome" and that the last I hear from them. LOL! I guess I must have done my job ;)

There are a couple of guys who are very comfortable with the system and will be a great source of information when I'm not available.

Back to tuning the STI!

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

bboy

09-11-2004, 12:43 PM

I'm always learning something. I just appreciate the feedback and the honesty. :)

Well that info clears a few things up.....I'm not so freaked out. Yes, I understand the hot side / cold side, and looking at the whole volumetric efficiency of the system. And yes, you can loose power by increasing boost if you are working against yourself. Now that that we know they are 550 cc injectors, the log makes a lot more sense, and is more reminiscent of other logs I've seen with stock STi injectors on an STI that start maxing out in the 5K RPM range.

Sorry about saying it was your car, I thought the logs might be. :o

CK02WRX

09-13-2004, 09:51 PM

Autotune 1st run (all runs in 3rd gear)
coolant AFR rpm tps psi kph knock (V) air temp duty cycle knock ret. boost val cell X cell Y fuel (ms) mmHg adv(deg.)

91 14.7 2,050.00 4.8 0 32 0 48 5.2 0 0 4 5 2.2 447 28
91 14.7 2,050.00 4.8 0 32 0 48 5.2 0 0 4 5 2.2 447 28
91 14.7 2,050.00 4.8 0 33 0 48 5.2 0 0 4 5 2.2 447 28
91 14.7 2,050.00 11.2 0 32 0 48 5.6 0 0 4 5 2.6 387 28
91 14.7 2,050.00 23.2 0 32 0 48 8.8 0 0 8 5 4.8 90 31
91 15.4 2,050.00 44.8 0 33 0.1 48 10.4 0 0 10 5 5.4 3 30
91 15.2 2,150.00 89.6 0.3 33 0.2 48 11.2 0 0 11 5 5.4 0 27
91 14.8 2,150.00 101.2 1 34 0.2 48 11.2 0 0 11 5 5.8 0 25
91 14.5 2,250.00 101.2 1.6 35 0 48 12.4 0 0 12 5 6.1 0 24
91 14.2 2,300.00 101.2 2.2 36 0 48 13.2 0 0 12 5 6.4 0 23
91 14 2,350.00 101.2 2.9 38 0.1 48 14.4 0 0 13 6 6.7 0 22
91 13.7 2,450.00 101.2 3.8 39 0.2 48 16 0 95.6 13 6 7 0 21
91 13.6 2,500.00 101.2 4.2 39 0.1 48 16 0 95.6 13 6 7.4 0 20
91 13.5 2,550.00 101.2 4.5 40 0 48 17.2 0 94.4 13 6 7.7 0 20
91 13.5 2,550.00 101.2 4.5 40 0.3 48 17.6 0 94.4 14 6 7.7 0 19
91 13.2 2,600.00 101.2 4.8 41 0.1 48 18 0 94 14 6 8 0 19
91 13.1 2,600.00 101.2 5.4 41 0.1 48 18.4 0 92.8 14 6 8.3 0 19
91 12.9 2,650.00 101.2 5.8 42 0.3 48 19.6 0 92.4 14 6 8.3 0 19
91 12.7 2,700.00 101.2 6.4 43 0.1 48 20 0 91.2 15 6 8.3 0 18
91 12.6 2,750.00 101.2 6.7 43 0.1 48 21.2 0 90.8 15 6 8.6 0 17
90 12.6 2,750.00 101.2 7.4 44 0.1 48 21.2 0 89.6 15 6 8.6 0 17
91 12.7 2,850.00 101.2 8 45 0.1 48 23.2 0 88.4 16 7 9 0 16
91 12.9 2,850.00 101.2 8.6 45 0.1 47 24 0 87.2 16 7 9.6 0 16
90 12.7 2,900.00 101.2 9.3 46 0.2 47 25.2 0 86.4 17 7 10.2 0 15
91 12.7 2,950.00 101.2 9.9 46 0.1 47 27.6 0 85.2 17 7 10.6 0 15
91 12.5 2,950.00 101.2 10.6 47 0.1 47 28 0 84 18 7 10.9 0 14
91 12.2 3,050.00 101.2 11.5 47 0.1 47 30.8 0 82.4 18 7 11.5 0 13
91 11.9 3,050.00 101.2 12.8 49 0.2 47 32.4 0 80.8 19 7 12.5 0 12
91 11.7 3,150.00 101.2 13.4 50 0.1 47 35.2 0 78.8 20 7 12.8 0 11
91 11.5 3,200.00 101.2 13.4 50 0.2 47 36.8 0 79.2 20 8 13.1 0 11
91 11.4 3,200.00 101.2 13.4 51 0.1 47 36 0 78.4 20 8 12.8 0 11
91 11.2 3,300.00 101.2 13.8 52 0.2 47 34.8 0 79.2 19 7 12.5 0 12
91 11.4 3,300.00 101.2 12.2 50 0.2 47 40.4 0 81.6 19 10 13.4 0 14
90 11.7 3,300.00 101.2 13.4 55 0.4 47 35.2 0 79.2 19 8 12.5 0 13
91 11.2 3,550.00 101.2 13.4 54 0.4 46 43.2 0 79.2 19 9 13.4 0 14
91 11.2 3,350.00 101.2 13.4 55 0.2 46 38 0 79.2 20 9 13.1 0 12
90 11.1 3,550.00 101.2 13.4 57 0.3 46 39.6 0 79.2 19 9 13.1 0 12
91 10.9 3,600.00 101.2 13.4 56 0.3 46 44.8 0 79.2 19 10 14.1 0 14
91 11 3,600.00 101.2 13.4 58 0.2 46 43.6 0 79.2 19 10 13.8 0 14
91 11 3,700.00 101.2 13.4 59 0.1 46 42.8 0 79.2 20 10 13.1 0 13
91 11 3,750.00 101.2 13.8 59 0.1 46 46 0 78.4 19 11 13.8 0 14
91 11 3,800.00 101.2 13.8 60 0.3 46 43.6 0 79.2 20 11 13.1 0 14
91 11 3,900.00 101.2 13.4 61 0.2 46 46.4 0 79.2 19 11 13.4 0 14
91 11.1 3,900.00 101.2 13.4 62 0.3 45 45.2 0 79.2 20 11 13.8 0 15
91 11 4,000.00 101.6 13.8 63 0.2 45 47.6 0 78.4 20 11 13.4 0 14
91 11 4,000.00 101.2 13.8 63 0.4 45 49.2 0 78.4 20 12 13.8 0 14
91 11 4,050.00 101.2 13.4 64 0.4 45 48 0 79.2 20 12 13.8 0 15
91 11 4,150.00 101.6 13.4 65 0.5 45 48.8 0 78.8 19 12 13.4 0 15
90 10.9 4,250.00 101.6 13.4 66 0.3 44 50.4 0 79.2 19 13 13.4 0 17
91 11 4,250.00 101.2 13.4 67 0.1 44 50.4 0 79.2 19 13 13.4 0 16
91 11 4,300.00 101.2 13.4 68 0.5 44 51.2 0 79.2 19 13 13.4 0 16
91 11 4,350.00 101.6 13.4 68 0.3 44 52.4 0 79.2 20 13 13.4 0 17
90 11 4,400.00 101.6 13.4 70 0.3 44 52.8 0 79.2 19 14 13.8 0 17
90 11 4,450.00 101.2 13.4 70 0.3 43 53.2 0 79.2 19 14 13.8 0 16
90 11 4,500.00 101.2 13.4 71 0.2 43 54.8 0 79.2 19 14 13.8 0 17
90 11 4,550.00 101.2 13.4 72 0.3 43 55.6 0 79.2 19 14 13.8 0 17
90 11.1 4,600.00 101.6 13.4 72 0.3 43 56 0 79.2 19 15 13.8 0 17
90 11.1 4,700.00 101.2 13.1 74 0.3 43 56.4 0 80 19 15 13.8 0 17
90 11.1 4,700.00 101.2 13.1 75 0.4 42 57.2 0 79.6 19 15 13.4 0 17
90 11.1 4,800.00 101.2 13.1 76 0.3 42 58 0 79.2 19 16 13.8 0 17
89 11.1 4,800.00 101.2 13.4 76 0.2 42 58.8 0 79.6 19 16 14.1 0 17
89 11 4,850.00 101.6 13.4 77 0.4 41 60 0 79.2 19 16 14.1 0 18
89 11 4,950.00 101.2 13.4 78 0.3 41 60.4 0 79.2 19 16 13.8 0 18
89 11.1 5,000.00 101.2 13.1 79 0.3 41 60.8 0 79.2 19 17 14.1 0 19
89 11.2 5,050.00 101.2 13.4 80 0.5 41 60.8 0 79.6 19 17 13.8 0 19
89 11.2 5,050.00 101.2 13.4 81 0.6 41 64.4 0 79.2 19 17 14.1 0 19
89 11.2 5,100.00 101.6 13.4 81 0.4 40 63.6 0 79.2 19 17 14.1 0 18
89 11.1 5,200.00 101.6 13.1 82 0.3 40 64 0 79.2 19 18 14.4 0 18
88 11.1 5,250.00 101.6 12.8 83 0.3 40 62.8 0 80.4 19 18 13.4 0 18
89 11.2 5,300.00 101.2 13.4 84 0.4 40 66.4 0 79.2 19 18 14.1 0 18
89 11.2 5,350.00 101.2 12.8 85 0.4 40 64.4 0 80.4 19 18 14.1 0 18
89 11.1 5,400.00 101.6 13.1 86 0.3 40 67.2 0 79.6 19 19 14.1 0 19
89 11.2 5,450.00 101.6 13.1 86 0.5 40 66.4 0 79.6 19 19 13.8 0 19
88 11.2 5,500.00 101.2 13.1 87 0.5 40 68.4 0 79.6 19 19 14.1 0 19
88 11.1 5,550.00 101.2 13.4 88 0.3 39 69.6 0 79.6 19 19 14.1 0 19
88 11.1 5,600.00 101.2 13.4 88 0.2 39 69.2 0 79.2 19 20 14.1 0 20
88 11.1 5,650.00 101.2 13.1 90 0.3 39 71.2 0 79.2 19 20 13.8 0 20
88 11.2 5,700.00 101.2 13.1 90 0.4 39 68.8 0 79.6 19 20 13.8 0 20
88 11.1 5,750.00 101.2 13.1 91 0.4 39 69.2 0 79.6 19 20 13.4 0 20
88 11.1 5,800.00 101.2 13.1 92 0.4 39 74 0 79.2 19 21 14.1 0 21
88 11.1 5,850.00 101.2 13.4 93 0.3 38 72.8 0 79.2 19 21 14.1 0 21
88 11.1 5,900.00 101.2 13.1 93 0.5 38 70.8 0 79.2 19 21 14.1 0 21
88 11.1 5,950.00 101.2 13.4 94 0.7 38 73.6 0 79.2 19 21 13.8 0 21
88 11.1 6,000.00 101.2 13.1 95 0.5 38 73.2 0 79.6 19 22 14.1 0 22
88 11.1 6,000.00 101.2 13.1 96 0.5 38 71.6 0 79.2 19 22 13.8 0 22
87 11 6,050.00 101.2 13.1 96 0.5 38 75.6 0 79.2 19 22 13.8 0 22
87 11.1 6,150.00 101.2 13.4 97 0.4 38 74.4 0 79.2 19 22 13.8 0 22
87 11.2 6,150.00 101.6 13.4 98 0.6 37 74 0 79.6 19 23 13.8 0 22
88 11.1 6,250.00 101.2 13.1 99 0.4 37 72.8 0 79.2 19 23 13.4 0 22
88 11.1 6,300.00 101.2 13.4 99 0.5 37 75.2 0 79.2 19 23 13.4 0 22
88 11.2 6,300.00 101.2 13.1 101 0.6 36 73.2 0 79.6 19 23 13.1 0 22
87 11.4 6,350.00 101.6 13.1 101 0.5 36 74 0 79.6 19 23 13.1 0 22
87 11.4 6,400.00 101.2 13.1 101 0.5 36 74.8 0 79.6 19 24 13.1 0 22
87 11.4 6,450.00 101.6 13.1 102 0.4 36 74.4 0 79.6 19 24 12.8 0 22
87 11.4 6,500.00 101.2 13.1 103 0.4 36 75.2 0 79.6 19 24 12.8 0 22
87 11.2 6,500.00 101.2 13.1 103 0.4 36 73.2 0 79.6 19 24 12.8 0 22
87 11.2 6,550.00 101.2 13.1 104 0.6 36 75.6 0 79.2 19 24 13.1 0 22
87 11.2 6,600.00 101.2 13.4 105 0.4 36 74 0 79.2 19 25 13.1 0 22
87 11.2 6,650.00 101.6 13.1 105 0.4 35 76.4 0 79.6 19 25 12.8 0 22
87 11.2 6,700.00 101.6 13.4 107 0.4 35 75.6 0 79.2 19 25 12.8 0 22
86 11.2 6,750.00 101.2 13.4 107 0.5 35 77.2 0 79.2 19 25 12.8 0 22
86 11.2 6,800.00 101.2 13.4 108 0.4 35 78.4 0 79.2 19 25 13.1 0 22
86 11.2 6,800.00 101.6 13.4 109 0.3 35 77.2 0 79.2 19 26 13.1 0 22
86 11.2 6,850.00 101.2 13.4 109 0.5 34 78.8 0 79.2 19 26 13.1 0 22
86 11.1 6,850.00 101.2 13.4 109 0.6 34 80.4 0 79.2 19 26 12.8 0 22
86 11 6,950.00 101.2 13.4 110 0.5 34 80.4 0 79.2 19 26 13.1 0 22
86 11 6,950.00 101.2 13.4 111 0.4 34 81.6 0 79.2 19 26 13.4 0 22
86 10.9 7,000.00 101.6 13.4 111 0.4 34 82.8 0 79.2 19 26 13.4 0 22
86 10.9 7,050.00 101.6 13.4 112 0.6 34 82.4 0 78.8 20 26 13.1 0 21
85 10.7 7,050.00 101.6 13.8 112 0.5 34 84.4 0 78.4 20 27 13.4 0 22
86 11 7,100.00 96.8 13.4 113 0.4 34 83.6 0 79.2 20 27 13.8 0 21
85 10.9 7,100.00 5.6 9 112 0.9 34 68 0 86.4 16 26 10.2 0 12

CK02WRX

09-13-2004, 10:16 PM

2nd run
88 14.7 2,200.00 3.6 0 64 0.1 32 4 0 0 3 5 1.6 537 29
88 15.3 1,750.00 5.6 0 28 0 49 4.4 0 0 4 4 2.6 390 24
88 15.4 1,800.00 5.6 0 29 0 49 4.4 0 0 5 4 2.6 387 25
88 15.3 1,800.00 5.6 0 28 0 49 4.4 0 0 5 4 2.6 384 24
88 15.3 1,800.00 5.6 0 28 0.1 49 4.4 0 0 5 4 2.6 378 24
88 15.3 1,800.00 20 0 28 0 49 6.4 0 0 7 4 3.8 192 25
88 15.4 1,950.00 41.6 0 29 0.2 49 9.6 0 0 9 4 5.1 12 30
88 15.8 1,750.00 96.4 0 29 0 49 10.4 0 0 11 4 6.4 0 26
88 13.7 1,850.00 101.2 0.3 29 0 49 10.8 0 0 11 4 6.1 0 27
88 12.9 1,900.00 101.2 1 30 0.1 49 10.4 0 0 11 4 6.1 0 25
88 13.6 2,000.00 101.2 1.3 31 0 49 10.8 0 0 12 5 5.8 0 25
88 14.1 2,050.00 101.2 1.6 32 0 49 11.6 0 0 12 5 6.1 0 25
88 14.2 2,150.00 101.2 1.9 34 0.2 49 12 0 0 12 5 6.4 0 24
88 14.1 2,150.00 101.2 2.2 34 0.3 49 12 0 0 12 5 6.4 0 24
88 14.1 2,150.00 101.2 2.2 35 0.1 49 12 0 0 12 5 6.4 0 24
88 14 2,250.00 101.2 2.6 35 0.3 49 12.8 0 0 12 5 6.4 0 24
88 13.9 2,250.00 101.2 2.9 35 0.1 49 13.2 0 0 12 5 6.7 0 24
88 13.7 2,250.00 101.2 2.9 36 0 49 12.8 0 0 12 5 6.7 0 24
88 13.7 2,300.00 101.2 2.9 36 0 49 14 0 0 13 5 6.7 0 23
88 13.6 2,350.00 101.2 3.2 37 0.1 49 14.8 0 0 13 5 7 0 23
88 13.5 2,400.00 101.2 3.2 37 0 49 15.6 0 70 13 6 7 0 23
88 13.5 2,400.00 101.2 3.5 38 0.2 49 14.8 0 78.4 13 6 7 0 22
88 13.4 2,400.00 101.2 3.8 38 0.1 49 16 0 88 13 6 7 0 22
88 13.4 2,450.00 101.2 4.2 39 0.1 49 15.6 0 94.8 13 6 7.4 0 21
88 13.2 2,500.00 101.2 4.5 39 0.1 49 16.4 0 94.4 13 6 7.4 0 21
88 13.4 2,500.00 101.2 4.5 39 0.1 49 16.4 0 94.4 14 6 7.7 0 20
88 13.4 2,550.00 101.2 4.8 40 0 49 17.6 0 94.4 14 6 7.7 0 20
88 13.2 2,550.00 101.2 4.8 40 0.1 49 18 0 94 14 6 8 0 20
88 13 2,600.00 101.2 5.4 41 0.3 49 18.4 0 92.8 14 6 8 0 20
88 12.7 2,700.00 101.2 5.8 42 0.1 49 19.6 0 92.4 14 6 8.3 0 20
88 12.5 2,700.00 101.2 6.1 43 0 49 20 0 91.6 15 6 8.3 0 19
88 12.5 2,750.00 101.2 6.4 43 0.2 48 21.2 0 91.2 15 6 8.6 0 19
88 12.4 2,750.00 101.2 7 44 0.1 48 21.2 0 90 15 7 8.6 0 18
88 12.5 2,800.00 101.2 7.4 44 0.1 48 22.4 0 89.6 16 7 9 0 18
88 12.6 2,850.00 101.2 8 45 0 48 23.2 0 88.4 16 7 9.3 0 17
88 12.6 2,900.00 101.2 8.6 45 0.1 48 24 0 87.2 16 7 9.6 0 17
88 12.6 2,950.00 101.2 9 46 0.1 48 26 0 86.4 17 7 9.9 0 16
88 12.6 3,000.00 101.2 9.9 47 0.2 48 28.4 0 84.8 17 7 10.6 0 15
88 12.2 3,050.00 101.2 10.9 48 0.2 48 29.6 0 83.6 18 7 11.2 0 14
88 12 3,100.00 101.2 11.8 49 0.4 48 32.4 0 81.6 19 7 11.8 0 14
88 11.7 3,150.00 101.2 12.8 50 0.2 48 34.8 0 80.4 19 8 12.5 0 13
88 11.7 3,200.00 101.2 13.4 51 0.4 48 35.6 0 79.2 19 8 12.8 0 13
88 11.5 3,300.00 101.2 13.4 51 0.2 48 37.6 0 79.2 19 8 12.8 0 13
88 11.5 3,250.00 101.6 13.4 52 0.4 47 37.2 0 79.2 19 8 13.1 0 13
88 11.5 3,350.00 101.2 13.4 53 0.4 47 36.8 0 79.2 19 8 12.8 0 13
88 11.5 3,400.00 101.6 13.1 54 0.3 47 38.4 0 79.2 19 9 13.1 0 14
88 11.5 3,450.00 101.2 13.4 54 0.3 47 39.6 0 79.2 19 9 13.1 0 14
88 11.4 3,500.00 101.2 13.4 55 0.2 47 40 0 79.2 19 9 13.1 0 14
88 11.4 3,600.00 101.2 13.4 57 0.4 47 42 0 79.2 19 10 13.4 0 15
85 11.2 3,650.00 101.2 13.4 58 0.3 46 43.2 0 79.2 19 10 13.4 0 15
87 11.2 3,700.00 101.2 13.4 59 0.4 46 44.8 0 79.2 19 10 13.4 0 15
88 11.2 3,750.00 101.2 13.4 59 0.4 46 44 0 79.2 19 10 13.4 0 15
88 11.2 3,850.00 101.2 13.4 60 0.3 46 45.6 0 79.2 19 11 13.4 0 16
88 11.2 3,850.00 101.2 13.4 61 0.3 46 45.6 0 79.2 19 11 13.8 0 16
88 11.2 3,900.00 101.2 13.8 62 0.3 46 46.8 0 78.4 20 11 13.8 0 15
88 11.2 4,000.00 101.2 13.4 63 0.2 46 47.2 0 79.2 19 12 13.4 0 16
88 11.1 4,050.00 101.2 13.4 64 0.1 45 48.4 0 79.2 19 12 13.8 0 16
88 11.2 4,100.00 101.2 13.4 65 0.2 45 49.6 0 79.2 19 12 13.4 0 16
88 11.1 4,150.00 101.2 13.4 66 0.1 45 49.2 0 79.2 19 13 13.4 0 17
88 11 4,250.00 101.6 13.4 67 0.3 45 49.2 0 79.2 19 13 13.4 0 17
88 11 4,300.00 101.2 13.1 68 0.2 45 51.2 0 79.6 19 13 13.4 0 17
88 11 4,350.00 101.6 13.4 68 0.3 44 50.8 0 79.2 19 13 13.4 0 17
88 11 4,400.00 101.2 13.1 69 0.4 44 52 0 79.6 19 14 13.4 0 17
88 11 4,450.00 101.2 13.1 70 0.4 44 52.8 0 79.6 19 14 13.4 0 17
88 11 4,500.00 101.2 13.4 71 0.4 44 54 0 79.6 19 14 13.4 0 17
89 11.1 4,550.00 101.6 13.4 72 0.3 44 53.6 0 79.2 19 14 13.4 0 17
88 11.1 4,600.00 101.2 13.4 73 0.3 43 55.2 0 79.2 19 15 13.4 0 17
88 11.1 4,650.00 101.6 12.8 74 0.3 43 56.4 0 79.6 19 15 13.4 0 17
88 11 4,700.00 101.2 13.1 74 0.3 43 55.6 0 79.6 19 15 13.8 0 17
88 11 4,800.00 101.2 13.4 75 0.4 42 58.8 0 79.6 19 16 14.1 0 17
88 11.1 4,850.00 101.2 12.8 77 0.2 42 57.2 0 80 19 16 13.4 0 18
88 11.1 4,900.00 101.6 13.1 77 0.4 41 59.2 0 79.6 19 16 13.8 0 18
88 11.1 4,950.00 101.6 13.8 78 0.4 41 61.2 0 79.2 19 16 14.1 0 18
88 11.2 5,000.00 101.2 13.4 79 0.2 41 61.6 0 79.2 19 17 13.8 0 19
88 11.1 5,050.00 101.2 13.1 80 0.4 41 61.2 0 79.6 19 17 13.4 0 19
87 11.1 5,100.00 101.2 12.8 81 0.3 41 61.6 0 80.4 19 17 13.8 0 19
88 11.2 5,150.00 101.2 13.1 81 0.3 40 61.6 0 79.6 19 17 13.8 0 18
88 11.1 5,150.00 101.6 13.4 82 0.3 40 63.2 0 79.2 19 18 14.1 0 18
88 11.1 5,250.00 101.6 13.1 83 0.4 40 64 0 79.6 19 18 13.8 0 18
88 11.2 5,300.00 101.6 12.8 84 0.5 40 63.2 0 80.4 19 18 13.8 0 18
88 11.1 5,350.00 101.6 13.1 85 0.4 40 64.4 0 80.4 19 18 13.8 0 18
88 11.2 5,400.00 101.6 13.4 86 0.5 40 65.2 0 79.2 19 19 13.4 0 20
88 11.1 5,450.00 101.6 13.1 86 0.3 40 66.8 0 79.6 19 19 13.8 0 20
88 11.1 5,500.00 101.2 13.1 87 0.3 40 67.2 0 79.6 19 19 14.1 0 19
88 11.1 5,550.00 101.2 13.1 88 0.4 39 66.8 0 79.6 19 19 13.4 0 20
88 11.1 5,600.00 101.2 13.1 88 0.4 39 68.4 0 79.6 19 20 13.8 0 20
88 11.1 5,650.00 101.2 12.8 90 0.3 39 70 0 79.6 19 20 14.1 0 20
88 11.1 5,650.00 101.2 13.1 90 0.3 39 68.8 0 79.6 19 20 13.8 0 20
88 11.1 5,750.00 101.6 13.1 91 0.5 39 70.8 0 79.6 19 20 13.8 0 20
88 11 5,800.00 101.6 13.1 92 0.4 39 71.6 0 79.6 19 21 13.8 0 21
88 11 5,850.00 101.6 12.8 92 0.3 38 71.6 0 80.4 19 21 13.8 0 21
87 11.1 5,900.00 101.2 13.1 93 0.4 38 70 0 79.6 19 21 13.8 0 21
87 11 5,950.00 101.2 13.1 94 0.2 38 72.8 0 79.6 19 21 13.8 0 21
88 10.9 6,000.00 101.2 13.1 95 0.4 38 73.2 0 79.2 19 22 14.1 0 22
88 11 6,050.00 101.6 13.4 95 0.6 38 74.8 0 79.2 19 22 13.8 0 22
88 11 6,100.00 101.6 13.1 96 0.4 38 72.4 0 79.2 19 22 13.8 0 22
88 10.9 6,100.00 101.2 13.4 97 0.3 38 74 0 79.2 19 22 13.4 0 22
87 11 6,150.00 101.2 13.1 98 0.5 37 74.8 0 79.2 19 22 13.8 0 22
87 11 6,200.00 101.2 13.1 99 0.5 37 74.8 0 79.6 19 23 13.4 0 22
87 11 6,250.00 101.2 13.1 99 0.5 37 74 0 79.6 19 23 13.4 0 22
87 11 6,300.00 101.2 13.1 100 0.5 37 74.8 0 79.2 19 23 13.4 0 22
87 11.1 6,350.00 101.2 13.1 101 0.4 36 72.8 0 79.6 19 23 12.8 0 22
87 11.1 6,400.00 101.6 12.8 101 0.5 36 73.2 0 80.4 19 24 12.8 0 22
87 11.1 6,450.00 101.2 12.8 102 0.4 36 75.2 0 79.6 19 24 13.1 0 22
86 11.1 6,500.00 101.2 13.1 102 0.4 36 75.2 0 79.6 19 24 13.1 0 22
86 11.1 6,500.00 101.2 13.1 103 0.4 36 76 0 80 19 24 13.1 0 22
86 11.2 6,550.00 101.2 13.1 104 0.3 36 75.6 0 79.6 19 24 12.8 0 22
86 11.2 6,600.00 101.6 13.1 105 0.4 36 76 0 79.6 19 25 13.1 0 22
86 11.1 6,650.00 101.2 13.4 105 0.4 36 77.2 0 79.2 19 25 12.8 0 22
86 11.2 6,700.00 101.2 13.4 106 0.5 35 76.4 0 79.6 19 25 13.1 0 22
85 11.2 6,700.00 101.6 13.4 107 0.5 35 76.4 0 79.2 19 25 13.1 0 22
86 11.2 6,800.00 101.2 13.4 108 0.5 35 77.2 0 79.2 19 26 12.8 0 22
86 11.2 6,800.00 101.2 13.4 108 0.5 35 78.4 0 79.2 19 26 12.8 0 22
85 11.1 6,850.00 101.6 13.4 109 0.4 35 80.8 0 79.2 19 26 13.1 0 22
85 11 6,850.00 101.6 13.4 109 0.4 34 78.8 0 79.2 19 26 12.8 0 22
85 11 6,900.00 74.4 13.4 110 0.3 34 80 0 79.2 19 26 13.4 0 22
85 10.9 6,700.00 0 1.9 108 0.9 34 41.2 0.3 0 11 25 5.4 12 31
85 11.4 6,450.00 0 0 109 0.7 34 16.8 0 0 5 24 2.2 348 31

CK02WRX

09-13-2004, 10:17 PM

3rd run
87 15.3 1,650.00 0 0 50 0.2 32 3.2 0 0 2 4 1.6 606 21
91 14.7 2,000.00 7.2 0 32 0.2 43 5.6 0 0 5 5 2.6 360 28
91 14.7 2,000.00 7.2 0 32 0.2 43 5.6 0 0 5 5 2.9 360 28
91 14.7 2,000.00 7.2 0 32 0 43 5.6 0 0 5 5 2.9 360 28
91 14.7 2,000.00 12.4 0 32 0 43 6.4 0 0 6 5 3.2 288 28
91 14.6 2,050.00 28.4 0 32 0.1 43 10.4 0 0 9 5 5.1 39 30
91 15.7 2,100.00 40.4 0 32 0 43 10.8 0 0 11 5 5.4 0 28
91 15 2,050.00 101.2 1 34 0.1 43 12 0 0 11 5 6.7 0 26
91 13 2,150.00 101.2 1.3 34 0.1 43 12.4 0 0 12 5 6.7 0 24
91 12.5 2,200.00 101.2 1.9 35 0 44 12.8 0 0 12 5 6.4 0 23
91 13 2,300.00 101.2 2.6 36 0.1 43 13.6 0 0 12 5 6.4 0 23
91 13.5 2,400.00 101.2 3.2 38 0 44 15.6 0 0 13 6 7 0 22
91 13.5 2,450.00 101.2 3.8 39 0 44 15.2 0 95.6 13 6 7 0 20
91 13.5 2,450.00 101.2 4.2 39 0.1 44 16.4 0 94.4 13 6 7.4 0 20
91 13.5 2,550.00 101.2 4.5 40 0.1 44 16.8 0 94.4 14 6 7.7 0 20
91 13.4 2,550.00 101.2 4.8 40 0 44 18 0 94 14 6 8 0 19
91 13.1 2,550.00 101.2 5.1 41 0.2 44 18 0 93.2 14 6 8 0 19
91 13 2,650.00 101.2 5.4 41 0.1 44 19.2 0 92.8 14 6 8 0 19
91 13 2,650.00 101.2 5.8 42 0.2 44 19.6 0 92.4 15 6 8.3 0 18
91 12.6 2,700.00 101.2 6.7 43 0.2 44 20.4 0 91.2 15 6 8.6 0 18
91 12.5 2,750.00 101.2 7 44 0.1 44 21.2 0 89.6 15 6 8.6 0 17
91 12.6 2,800.00 101.2 7.4 44 0 44 22 0 89.6 16 7 9 0 16
91 12.7 2,800.00 101.2 8 45 0.1 44 22.4 0 88 16 7 9.3 0 16
91 12.7 2,850.00 101.2 9 45 0.3 44 24.4 0 86.8 16 7 9.6 0 16
91 12.7 2,900.00 101.2 9.6 46 0.1 44 25.2 0 85.6 17 7 10.2 0 15
91 12.6 2,950.00 101.2 10.2 46 0.1 43 27.6 0 84.4 17 7 10.9 0 15
91 12.5 3,000.00 101.2 11.2 47 0.1 44 30 0 83.2 18 7 11.2 0 13
90 12.1 3,050.00 101.2 11.8 48 0.2 44 31.2 0 82 19 7 11.8 0 13
91 12 3,100.00 101.2 12.8 48 0.1 44 34 0 79.6 19 7 12.5 0 12
91 11.7 3,150.00 101.2 13.8 50 0.2 44 35.2 0 78.4 20 8 12.8 0 11
91 11.6 3,200.00 101.2 13.4 50 0.3 43 36.4 0 78.4 20 8 12.8 0 11
91 11.5 3,250.00 101.2 13.4 51 0.2 43 37.6 0 79.2 19 8 12.8 0 12
91 11.5 3,300.00 101.2 13.4 52 0.3 43 37.2 0 79.2 19 8 12.8 0 12
90 11.4 3,350.00 101.2 13.4 53 0.3 43 37.2 0 79.2 19 8 12.8 0 12
91 11.5 3,400.00 101.2 13.4 54 0.2 43 40.4 0 79.2 19 9 13.1 0 13
90 11.5 3,450.00 101.2 13.4 55 0.5 43 40 0 79.2 19 9 13.1 0 14
91 11.4 3,550.00 101.2 13.4 55 0.3 43 41.2 0 79.2 19 9 13.1 0 13
91 11.4 3,600.00 101.6 13.4 57 0.2 43 42 0 79.2 19 10 13.4 0 14
91 11.2 3,650.00 101.2 13.4 58 0.4 43 43.2 0 79.2 19 10 13.4 0 14
90 11.4 3,700.00 101.2 13.4 58 0.4 43 43.6 0 79.2 19 10 13.4 0 14
90 11.4 3,750.00 101.2 13.4 60 0.2 42 44 0 79.2 19 11 13.4 0 14
91 11.2 3,850.00 101.2 13.4 60 0.3 42 46 0 79.2 20 11 13.4 0 15
90 11.4 3,850.00 101.2 13.4 61 0.1 42 45.6 0 79.2 20 11 13.4 0 15
90 11.2 3,950.00 101.6 13.4 63 0.1 42 46 0 78.8 20 11 13.4 0 15
90 11.2 4,000.00 101.2 13.4 63 0.2 41 49.2 0 79.2 20 12 13.8 0 16
91 11.2 4,050.00 101.6 13.8 64 0.4 41 47.6 0 78.8 20 12 13.4 0 14
91 11.2 4,150.00 101.6 13.4 65 0.4 41 49.6 0 79.2 20 12 13.8 0 14
90 11.1 4,150.00 101.2 13.4 65 0.3 41 51.6 0 79.2 19 13 13.8 0 17
90 11.1 4,200.00 101.2 13.4 67 0.4 41 49.2 0 79.2 19 13 13.4 0 17
91 11.1 4,300.00 101.6 13.4 68 0.2 40 52.8 0 79.2 20 13 13.8 0 16
90 11.2 4,350.00 101.2 13.4 70 0.3 40 52.8 0 79.2 19 13 13.4 0 16
90 11.2 4,450.00 101.2 13.4 70 0.3 40 55.2 0 79.2 19 14 13.8 0 16
90 11.1 4,500.00 101.2 13.4 71 0.2 40 54 0 79.2 19 14 13.8 0 16
91 11.1 4,550.00 101.2 13.4 72 0.2 40 54.8 0 79.2 19 14 13.4 0 16
90 11.1 4,600.00 101.2 13.4 73 0.2 40 55.2 0 79.2 19 15 13.8 0 16
90 11.2 4,650.00 101.2 13.4 73 0.4 40 57.2 0 79.2 19 15 13.8 0 16
90 11.1 4,700.00 101.6 13.4 75 0.3 40 57.2 0 79.2 19 15 13.8 0 16
90 11.1 4,800.00 101.6 13.4 75 0.5 39 58.4 0 79.2 19 16 13.8 0 16
90 11.1 4,800.00 101.2 13.4 76 0.3 39 60.4 0 79.2 20 16 14.1 0 16
90 11.2 4,850.00 101.2 13.8 77 0.1 39 59.6 0 79.2 20 16 14.1 0 16
89 11.2 4,950.00 101.2 13.4 79 0.2 39 60.8 0 79.2 19 16 13.8 0 17
89 11.2 5,000.00 101.6 13.4 79 0.3 39 63.2 0 79.2 19 17 14.1 0 18
89 11.2 5,050.00 101.2 13.1 80 0.2 38 60.8 0 79.2 19 17 14.1 0 18
89 11.2 5,100.00 101.2 13.4 81 0.4 38 61.6 0 79.6 19 17 13.8 0 18
89 11.2 5,150.00 101.2 12.8 82 0.3 38 63.2 0 79.6 19 18 14.4 0 18
89 11.1 5,200.00 101.2 13.1 83 0.3 38 63.6 0 79.2 19 18 14.1 0 18
89 11.1 5,250.00 101.2 13.1 83 0.2 38 65.6 0 79.6 19 18 14.1 0 18
89 11.2 5,350.00 101.2 13.1 85 0.4 38 64.4 0 79.6 19 18 14.4 0 18
89 11.2 5,350.00 101.2 13.1 86 0.4 37 66 0 79.6 19 19 14.1 0 19
89 11.2 5,450.00 101.6 13.4 86 0.3 37 67.2 0 79.2 19 19 13.8 0 19
89 11.2 5,550.00 101.2 13.4 87 0.3 37 67.6 0 79.2 19 19 13.8 0 19
88 11.1 5,600.00 101.2 13.4 88 0.6 36 69.6 0 79.2 19 20 14.1 0 19
88 11.1 5,600.00 101.6 13.1 89 0.5 36 69.6 0 79.6 19 20 14.1 0 20
88 11.2 5,650.00 101.6 13.8 90 0.4 36 71.2 0 78.4 20 20 14.4 0 19
88 11.1 5,750.00 101.2 13.4 91 0.7 36 70.4 0 79.2 19 20 13.8 0 20
88 11 5,800.00 101.2 13.4 92 0.5 36 71.2 0 79.2 19 21 14.1 0 21
87 11 5,850.00 101.2 13.4 93 0.4 36 73.2 0 79.2 19 21 14.4 0 21
88 11 5,900.00 101.2 13.4 94 0.6 35 72 0 79.2 19 21 14.1 0 21
88 11 5,950.00 101.2 13.4 94 0.4 35 73.6 0 79.2 19 21 14.4 0 20
88 11 6,000.00 101.2 13.4 95 0.3 35 74 0 79.2 19 22 13.8 0 22
88 11 6,050.00 101.6 13.1 96 0.4 34 74 0 79.2 19 22 13.8 0 22
88 11 6,100.00 101.2 13.4 97 0.4 34 74 0 79.2 19 22 13.8 0 22
87 11 6,150.00 101.2 13.4 97 0.6 34 73.2 0 79.6 19 22 13.8 0 22
87 11 6,200.00 101.2 13.4 99 0.8 34 73.6 0 79.2 19 23 13.4 0 22
88 11 6,250.00 101.2 13.4 99 0.6 34 75.2 0 79.2 19 23 13.4 0 22
88 11 6,300.00 101.2 13.4 100 0.8 34 74.8 0 79.2 19 23 13.4 0 22
88 11.1 6,350.00 101.2 13.1 100 0.7 34 73.2 0 79.6 19 23 13.4 0 22
87 11.1 6,400.00 101.6 13.4 101 0.7 34 74.4 0 79.2 19 24 13.4 0 22
88 11.1 6,400.00 101.2 13.4 102 0.6 34 74.8 0 79.2 19 24 13.4 0 22
87 11.2 6,500.00 101.2 13.4 103 0.7 33 75.6 0 79.2 19 24 13.1 0 22
87 11.2 6,550.00 101.2 13.4 104 0.6 33 75.6 0 79.2 19 24 12.8 0 22
87 11.2 6,550.00 101.2 13.4 104 0.9 33 75.2 0 79.2 19 24 12.8 0 22
87 11.4 6,600.00 101.6 13.4 105 0.8 33 75.2 0 79.2 19 25 12.8 0 22
87 11.2 6,650.00 101.2 13.4 105 0.6 33 76 0 79.2 19 25 13.1 0 22
87 11.2 6,700.00 101.6 13.4 106 0.4 33 76.4 0 79.2 19 25 13.1 0 22
87 11.2 6,750.00 101.2 13.8 107 0.5 32 78.8 0 79.2 20 25 13.1 0 21
87 11.2 6,750.00 101.6 13.4 107 0.5 32 76.4 0 79.2 20 25 12.8 0 22
87 11.2 6,800.00 101.6 13.8 108 0.6 32 77.6 0 78.8 20 26 13.1 0 21
86 11.2 6,850.00 101.2 13.8 109 0.4 32 79.2 0 78.4 20 26 13.1 0 21
86 11.1 6,900.00 101.6 13.8 110 0.4 32 82 0 78.4 20 26 13.1 0 21
86 11 6,900.00 101.2 14.1 110 0.4 32 82.8 0 78 20 26 13.1 0 21
86 11 6,950.00 101.2 14.1 110 0.4 32 85.2 0 78.4 20 26 13.4 0 21
86 10.9 7,000.00 101.2 14.1 111 0.6 32 84 0 78 20 26 13.8 0 21
86 10.9 7,050.00 101.6 14.1 112 0.6 32 86 0 78 20 26 13.4 0 21
86 10.7 7,050.00 101.2 14.1 113 0.5 32 83.6 0 78.4 20 26 13.4 0 21
86 10.7 7,100.00 96 14.4 113 0.5 32 86.8 0 78 20 27 13.8 0 21
86 10.7 7,100.00 45.6 13.1 113 0.5 32 76.8 0 82.8 18 26 11.8 0 23

CK02WRX

09-13-2004, 10:21 PM

8th run boost turned up a bit
2nd run at this boost level

The duty cycles (PE650) are strating to get in the 90's at redline, but it needs to be leaned out a tad in that spot.

88 13.7 950 0 0 60 0 32 2 0 0 3 2 2.2 486 13
92 14.2 2,000.00 4.4 0 31 0 42 5.2 0 0 4 5 2.6 417 27
92 14.2 1,950.00 4.4 0 32 0 42 5.2 0 0 4 5 2.6 417 28
92 14.2 2,000.00 4.4 0 31 0.1 42 5.2 0 0 4 5 2.6 417 28
92 14.1 2,000.00 14 0 32 0.1 42 6 0 0 5 5 2.9 339 28
92 14.1 2,150.00 27.2 0 32 0.1 42 10 0 0 9 5 4.8 45 30
92 15.5 2,100.00 61.6 0 32 0.2 42 10.8 0 0 11 5 5.4 0 28
91 14.9 2,050.00 101.2 0.6 33 0 42 11.2 0 0 11 5 5.8 0 26
91 14.5 2,150.00 101.2 1.3 34 0 42 11.2 0 0 12 5 6.1 0 24
91 14.4 2,200.00 101.2 1.9 35 0 43 12.4 0 0 12 5 6.4 0 24
91 14 2,300.00 101.2 2.6 36 0.1 43 13.2 0 0 12 5 6.4 0 23
91 14 2,350.00 101.2 2.9 37 0.1 43 14.4 0 0 13 5 6.7 0 22
91 13.7 2,400.00 101.2 3.5 38 0 43 15.6 0 86.8 13 6 7 0 21
91 13.6 2,450.00 101.2 3.8 38 0.3 43 16 0 95.2 13 6 7 0 21
91 13.5 2,450.00 101.2 4.2 39 0.1 43 15.6 0 94.8 13 6 7.4 0 20
91 13.4 2,500.00 101.2 4.5 39 0.3 43 16.4 0 94.4 13 6 7.4 0 20
91 13.4 2,550.00 101.2 4.5 40 0.3 42 17.6 0 94.4 14 6 7.7 0 19
91 13.2 2,550.00 101.2 4.8 41 0.2 43 17.6 0 94 14 6 7.7 0 19
91 13.2 2,600.00 101.2 5.4 41 0.2 43 19.2 0 92.8 14 6 8 0 19
91 12.7 2,650.00 101.2 5.8 42 0.2 43 19.6 0 92.4 14 6 8.3 0 19
91 12.5 2,700.00 101.2 6.1 43 0.1 43 20 0 91.6 15 6 8.6 0 18
91 12.5 2,750.00 101.2 6.7 43 0.1 43 21.2 0 90.8 15 6 8.6 0 18
91 12.5 2,750.00 101.2 7.4 44 0.1 43 21.6 0 89.6 15 7 8.6 0 17
91 12.4 2,800.00 101.2 7.7 45 0 43 21.6 0 88.8 16 7 9 0 16
91 12.6 2,850.00 101.2 8.3 45 0.1 43 24 0 88 16 7 9.6 0 16
91 12.7 2,850.00 101.2 9 46 0.1 42 24.4 0 86.8 17 7 9.6 0 15
91 12.6 2,950.00 101.2 9.6 46 0.1 42 26 0 85.6 17 7 10.2 0 15
91 12.5 2,950.00 101.2 10.6 47 0.1 42 29.2 0 84 18 7 10.9 0 14
91 12.2 3,000.00 101.2 11.8 48 0.3 42 30.8 0 82 18 7 11.5 0 13
91 11.9 3,100.00 101.2 13.4 49 0.3 42 34.4 0 79.6 19 7 12.5 0 12
91 11.7 3,150.00 101.2 14.4 50 0.4 42 36.4 0 77.6 20 7 13.4 0 11
91 11.7 3,150.00 101.2 15.7 50 0.2 42 39.6 0 75.2 21 8 14.1 0 11
91 11.5 3,250.00 101.2 16.6 51 0.3 42 41.2 0 73.2 22 8 14.7 0 11
91 11.5 3,300.00 101.2 17.6 52 0.5 42 43.2 0 72 22 8 15 0 11
91 11.2 3,350.00 101.2 17.9 53 0.3 42 44 0 71.6 22 9 15.4 0 11
90 11.2 3,400.00 101.6 17.9 54 0.1 41 45.2 0 72 22 9 15.4 0 11
91 11.1 3,450.00 101.2 17.9 55 0.2 41 46.4 0 71.6 22 9 15 0 11
91 11.2 3,550.00 101.2 17.3 55 0.4 41 47.6 0 72.4 22 9 15.4 0 11
91 11.2 3,600.00 101.6 17.3 57 0.3 41 48 0 72.4 22 10 15.4 0 13
91 11.2 3,650.00 101.6 17.6 58 0.3 41 48.8 0 72 22 10 15.4 0 12
91 11.2 3,750.00 101.6 17.3 58 0.5 41 51.6 0 72.4 22 10 15.4 0 13
91 11.2 3,750.00 101.6 17.3 60 0.3 41 52 0 72 22 11 15.7 0 13
91 11.1 3,850.00 101.2 17.3 61 0.2 41 52 0 73.2 22 11 15.7 0 13
91 11 3,950.00 101.2 17.6 61 0.5 40 54.4 0 72 22 11 15.7 0 12
91 11 3,950.00 101.2 17.6 63 0.3 40 56.8 0 72.4 22 12 16 0 13
90 11 4,000.00 101.2 17.6 63 0.4 40 54.8 0 72.4 22 12 15.7 0 13
91 10.9 4,100.00 101.2 17.3 64 0.3 40 56.8 0 72.4 22 12 15.7 0 13
91 10.9 4,150.00 101.6 17 66 0.2 40 56.8 0 73.2 22 12 15.7 0 14
91 10.9 4,200.00 101.6 17.3 66 0.2 40 57.2 0 72.4 22 13 15.7 0 13
91 11 4,300.00 101.2 17.3 68 0.5 40 59.6 0 72.4 22 13 15.4 0 13
91 11 4,350.00 101.6 17.3 68 0.5 40 60.4 0 72 22 13 15.7 0 13
91 11 4,400.00 101.2 17 70 0.4 40 60.4 0 73.2 22 14 15.7 0 13
91 10.9 4,450.00 101.6 17 70 0.5 39 62 0 73.2 22 14 15.7 0 13
91 11 4,500.00 101.2 17 71 0.4 39 62.8 0 72.8 22 14 16 0 13
91 11 4,550.00 101.2 16.6 72 0.4 39 62.8 0 73.6 21 14 16 0 13
91 11 4,600.00 101.2 17 73 0.4 39 64 0 73.6 22 15 15.4 0 14
90 11 4,650.00 101.6 16.6 74 0.3 39 66.4 0 73.6 22 15 16 0 15
91 11 4,700.00 101.6 17 75 0.5 39 64.4 0 73.2 22 15 15.7 0 14
91 10.9 4,800.00 101.6 16.6 76 0.3 38 66.4 0 73.6 22 16 15.7 0 14
90 10.9 4,900.00 101.6 17 77 0.4 38 69.2 0 73.2 22 16 16.3 0 15
90 10.9 4,900.00 101.2 17 78 0.3 38 68 0 73.2 22 16 16.3 0 15
91 10.7 4,950.00 101.6 16.6 78 0.5 38 70.4 0 73.2 22 17 16 0 14
91 10.9 5,000.00 101.6 17 79 0.3 38 72 0 73.6 22 17 16 0 15
91 10.7 5,050.00 101.6 16.6 81 0.5 38 70 0 73.6 21 17 15.7 0 15
91 11 5,150.00 101.6 17 82 0.3 37 71.6 0 73.2 21 17 15.4 0 16
90 10.7 5,200.00 101.2 17 82 0.2 37 74.4 0 73.6 22 18 16 0 17
90 11 5,200.00 101.6 16.3 83 0.4 37 71.6 0 74 21 18 16.3 0 16
90 10.9 5,300.00 101.6 16.3 84 0.6 36 71.6 0 73.6 21 18 15.7 0 17
90 10.9 5,350.00 101.6 16.3 85 0.5 36 76 0 74.4 21 18 15.7 0 17
90 11 5,450.00 101.2 16 86 0.3 36 75.6 0 74.4 21 19 16 0 18
90 10.7 5,500.00 101.2 16 87 0.3 36 74 0 74.8 21 19 15.4 0 18
90 11 5,550.00 101.2 16.3 88 0.3 36 76.4 0 74.8 21 19 15.4 0 18
89 11 5,600.00 101.6 16.3 89 0.8 36 77.2 0 74.4 21 20 15.7 0 19
89 11 5,650.00 101.6 16.3 89 0.7 35 78.4 0 74.4 21 20 15.4 0 19
89 11 5,700.00 101.2 16 90 0.6 35 78 0 74.8 21 20 15.7 0 19
89 11 5,750.00 101.2 16 91 0.4 35 77.6 0 75.2 21 20 15.4 0 19
89 10.9 5,800.00 101.6 16 92 0.6 34 80 0 74.8 21 21 16 0 20
89 11 5,850.00 101.6 15.4 92 0.5 34 78.4 0 75.2 21 21 15.7 0 20
88 11 5,900.00 101.2 16 94 0.6 34 78.8 0 75.2 21 21 15.4 0 20
88 10.9 5,950.00 101.6 16 94 0.3 34 79.6 0 74.8 21 21 15 0 20
88 10.7 6,050.00 101.6 15.7 96 0.5 34 80.4 0 74.8 21 22 15.4 0 20
88 10.7 6,050.00 101.6 16.3 97 0.7 34 82 0 74.8 21 22 15 0 20
88 10.9 6,100.00 101.2 15.7 97 0.5 34 80.8 0 75.2 21 22 15 0 20
88 10.9 6,150.00 101.6 16 97 0.4 34 81.2 0 75.2 21 23 15 0 20
88 11 6,200.00 101.6 15.7 98 0.7 33 82.4 0 75.2 21 23 15.4 0 20
87 10.9 6,250.00 101.6 15.7 99 0.5 33 82 0 75.2 21 23 15.4 0 20
88 10.7 6,300.00 101.6 15.7 100 0.7 33 81.2 0 75.2 21 23 14.7 0 20
88 10.9 6,350.00 101.2 15.7 100 0.5 33 81.2 0 75.2 21 23 14.4 0 20
88 11 6,400.00 101.6 15.7 101 0.5 33 83.6 0 75.2 21 24 14.7 0 20
88 10.9 6,450.00 101.2 15 103 0.9 32 81.6 0 76 21 24 14.4 0 20
88 11 6,500.00 101.6 15.7 103 0.7 32 81.6 0 75.2 21 24 14.4 0 20
87 11 6,550.00 101.2 15.4 104 0.5 32 82.8 0 75.2 21 24 14.4 0 20
87 11 6,600.00 101.2 15.4 105 0.5 32 80.8 0 76.4 21 24 14.1 0 20
88 11 6,600.00 101.2 15 105 0.4 32 82.8 0 76.4 21 25 14.1 0 20
88 10.9 6,650.00 101.6 15.4 106 0.6 32 83.6 0 76 21 25 14.7 0 20
88 11 6,700.00 101.6 15.4 106 0.6 32 84.4 0 76 21 25 14.4 0 20
87 11 6,750.00 101.6 15.4 107 0.5 32 84.4 0 76 21 25 14.4 0 20
87 11 6,750.00 101.6 15.4 107 0.5 32 84 0 75.2 21 26 14.1 0 20
87 11 6,800.00 101.2 15.4 108 0.6 31 84.4 0 76 21 26 14.1 0 21
87 10.9 6,850.00 101.6 15.4 109 0.4 31 86.4 0 76 21 26 14.1 0 21
87 10.7 6,900.00 101.2 15.4 109 0.3 31 88 0 75.6 21 26 14.7 0 21
86 10.7 6,950.00 101.2 15.4 110 0.5 31 88 0 75.6 21 26 14.1 0 21
86 10.6 7,000.00 101.6 15.4 111 0.4 31 88.8 0 76 21 26 14.4 0 21
86 10.5 7,000.00 101.6 15.4 111 0.5 31 86 0 76.4 21 26 14.4 0 21
86 10.5 7,050.00 101.2 15.7 112 0.4 30 92.8 0 75.2 21 26 15 0 20
86 10.4 7,050.00 101.6 15.7 112 0.7 30 90 0 75.2 21 26 14.4 0 20
86 10.4 7,100.00 101.2 15.7 113 0.5 30 92.8 0 75.2 21 27 14.7 0 20
86 10.4 7,150.00 100.4 15.7 113 0.5 30 93.6 0 75.2 21 27 15 0 20

fantabulous

09-14-2004, 12:23 AM

i dont know much at all about tuning, but thats a big difference in boost isnt it? how do you like they hydra? i am considering ordering one very soon. what injectors are you running?

engineerx

09-14-2004, 01:45 PM

CK02WRX

09-14-2004, 05:36 PM

i dont know much at all about tuning, but thats a big difference in boost isnt it? how do you like they hydra? i am considering ordering one very soon. what injectors are you running?
On runs 1,2, and 3 the boost was the same. On 4 I opened the mbc a half turn and got 14.7 psi. On 5 another half turn and I got 16.3 psi. On 7 I opened the 2nd stage on the TXS DSBC a half turn and hit 17.9 psi. I went up in boost fairly quick but I didn't go from 13 psi to nearly 18 psi. You'll notice that the boost spikes just a tad then settles very quickly. I really like the Hydra because of the control it gives to the user. I stepped up to the Hydra from the UTEC and found that the Hydra software is easy to use. I think I would have been a little overwhelmed if the Hydra was the first EMS that I learned how to tune on. There is a lot of control that comes with the Hydra and a lot of time needs to be spent tuning start-up and idle. The Good thing is that Phil from Element Tuning has already done the hard work for us. Most people that order the Hydra will be up and running once they install the ecu. If you order one I recommend you get the wideband o2 with the autotune function. It makes tuning easy and more than likely the afr is all that will have to be tuned on most setups. Phil offers excellent customer service and has helped me a lot. With out his help I'm sure the jump from a piggyback to a standalone would have been painful. For your last question, I'm using PE 650 injectors.

Later,
Corey

CK02WRX

09-14-2004, 05:54 PM

Question: Will 720cc Denso injectors suffice for a WRX STi with the parts listed below? I'm in Calif so 91 octane crap will be the choice of fuel :-(

Also - should I get a Fuel Cut Defender? HKS any good?

Will there be any tuners (Dyno) for Hydra in the Southern Calif area?

Your input appreciated

I've been ANXIOUSLY waiting for Phil to finish the WRX STi testing phase and release the EMS!
I've been sitting on nearly $8k worth of pricey but pretty APS parts: DR55 rotated mount 55lb/min turbo, DR650 FMIC, BOV, 3.5" TBE, Tumbler deletes / race fuel system, 720cc injectors..... Greddy boost controller, Ramdom Technology Cat (keep it treehugging friendly!) Essex regulator....

I had ordered the UTEC thru Vividracing - paid for it - 2 months waiting.... no EMS delivered - then found out about the Hydra so I canceled the UTEC order. Sp pleeeease don't sleep don't eat and tune tune tune !!! :-)

Any updates greatly appreciated and may help me get better sleep .... thanks!

I would think that if you are trying to get max power on pump gas you will come close to or pass the limits of your injectors. That is just my guess because I' have a much smaller turbo and injectors that are only 70cc smaller and I expect to be close when I bump the boost up to 20 psi. It really depends on the boost and what AFR you will be running and you'll be on 91 oct. If I had a turbo that big I'd go with a bigger set of injectors, maybe pe850's or modded stockers. I like to have a little head room. The only reason I'm using the PE650's is because I had them on my 2.0 and I paid $600 for them so there was no way I wasn't going to use them. That and I was low on funds after swapping in the EJ257 longblock so I sold the stock STI injectors some quick cash.

fantabulous

09-15-2004, 12:44 AM

thanks corey

im going a similar route.... fp green, pe800cc, walbro, and hydra. i talked to phil the other day and hes mentioned something about 500 hours of life on the wideband. ive never tuned a car but, is that a long time? i think it will be a hassle to keep buying new sensors or replacing them frequently. also how long does it take to make a decent tune? is the afr the most looked at?

mnavarro

09-15-2004, 08:37 AM

engineerx

09-15-2004, 01:58 PM

I would think that if you are trying to get max power on pump gas you will come close to or pass the limits of your injectors. ....... It really depends on the boost and what AFR you will be running and you'll be on 91 oct. .......

THANKS CK02WRX !!!

I'll see if I can exchange them for bigger ones!

Element Tuning

09-15-2004, 02:58 PM

Phil, is it ok to put the wb02 sensor in the rear o2 sensor position for the purpose of autotune accuracy? I don't have cats. If there's more of a delay is this a factor, or can this be adjusted with a delay factor in the software. I'm still waiting for my STI hydra to be shipped.

Yes, you can use the rear 02 sensor bung with great results. This is basically how I use it. After I'm done tuning I'll just reinstall the factory 02 and change the settings in the Hydra.

I'm still waiting to ship your Element STI Hydra ;)

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

engineerx

09-15-2004, 03:13 PM

..... I'm still waiting for my STI hydra to be shipped.

Any updates or estimates when the STi Hydra will be ready? I hope is before the end of the year !

CK02WRX

09-15-2004, 05:45 PM

mnavarro

09-15-2004, 06:07 PM

Ok, thanks for the responses, I was reading a thread about putting the w02 sensor right after the turbo, but I guess it's not that important if it's right behind the turbo on the the downpipe. Phil, yeah I guess I deserved that!

fantabulous

09-15-2004, 07:44 PM

hey ck02wrx, how come you are using a mbc, cant you control boost with the hydra? sorry im a noob.

looks like you are hitting boost pretty quick. whats the difference in the fp18g and the green?

CK02WRX

09-15-2004, 10:18 PM

Yes, the Hydra can control boost but I prefer the mbc. The FP18G spools quick on the 2.5 even in 3rd gear. In 4th gear I get full boost 300-400 rpm sooner. Once I hook up the AVCS it should be about another 300 rpm sooner than it is now. Having 2.5 liters of displacement helps a lot. That and the FP18G is a small turbo for the EJ257. .

CK02WRX

09-30-2004, 10:40 PM

I have been busy with work lately (and searching for a new Job), but I finally had a chance to wire the AVCS to the Hydra. I wired the AVCS solenoids to a connector and the connector to the Hydra harness. I'm using the AVCS map that Phil suggested. I have not had time to retune the fuel yet, but when I do I will post logs with the AVCS on and off with thier respective fuel maps. I hope I have some time tomorrow because I'd like to go to the track and get a few runs in.

euglow

10-01-2004, 10:56 PM

CK02WRX

10-01-2004, 11:36 PM

It's possible, but I don't want to give Phil's work away. If it were a map that I made, I would have no problem posting it. If you bought a Hydra from Phil he will load the map for you. I notice you are in Singapore. If I remember correctly, isn't that were the Hydra is made.

euglow

10-02-2004, 03:57 AM

I have no problem with that...

Only reason I ask for it is to better understand the AVCS Map, at this moment the Y axis and X axis are not label and degree currently in % so hope to have another map to compare. (I can't use this Map anyway)

Yes, I'm Singapore but not really sure about them made here...but down here we do have a few STI JDM and Euro running the Hydra sucessfully... (we are trying to fine tune it now)

Any idea at what % does the AVCS max out i.e advanced 20 degree or is 0% = retard 20 degree?

Cheers

CK02WRX

10-03-2004, 10:43 AM

The numbers that are programed into the Hydra are not the degrees of advance and I believe that they are duty cycles for the AVCS solenoids. Also, if you don't have the proper unlock code you won't be able to change the avcs maps (pwm 9 & 10). Well, you can change them but it won't do anything. I can tell you that based on my map and from what I've learned, you only want the AVCS active under about 15 psi. Then you want all the values to be 0% duty cycle. The map that Phil sends out with the Hydra is based off of a USDM STI EJ257 and there is said to be room for improvement. Call Phil he might be willing to help you out. Darth Chicken may also be able to help you. I think he has modified his map and he is more familiar with the AVCS system than I am.

CK02WRX

10-05-2004, 05:38 PM

double post

CK02WRX

10-05-2004, 05:39 PM

I'm not finished with the AVCS tune, but I've posted this log so you can see that with the AVCS hooked up it gets real rich in the low boost area.

4th gear

cool AFR RPM TPS PSI
temp
5:59:17 PM 88 17.3 1,900.00 95.2 0 43 0.1 38 11.6 0 0 10 4 6.4 0 27
5:59:17 PM 89 16.2 1,950.00 101.2 0 43 0 38 11.6 0 0 11 4 6.4 0 26
5:59:17 PM 89 14.9 1,950.00 101.2 0.3 44 0.1 38 11.6 0 0 11 4 6.1 0 26
5:59:17 PM 89 14.5 1,950.00 101.2 0.6 44 0 38 10.8 0 0 11 5 6.1 0 25
5:59:17 PM 88 14.1 2,000.00 101.2 0.6 44 0 38 11.6 0 0 11 5 6.4 0 26
5:59:17 PM 89 14 2,000.00 101.2 1 45 0.2 38 11.2 0 0 11 5 6.1 0 25
5:59:17 PM 88 14 2,000.00 101.2 1.3 45 0.2 38 11.2 0 0 11 5 6.4 0 25
5:59:18 PM 89 13.9 2,050.00 101.2 1.3 45 0 38 11.6 0 0 12 5 6.4 0 24
5:59:18 PM 89 14 2,050.00 101.2 1.6 46 0.3 38 11.6 0 0 12 5 6.4 0 24
5:59:18 PM 89 13.5 2,050.00 101.2 1.6 46 0.1 38 12 0 0 12 5 6.4 0 24
5:59:18 PM 89 13.2 2,050.00 101.2 1.9 46 0.2 38 12 0 0 12 5 6.7 0 24
5:59:18 PM 89 13 2,100.00 101.2 2.2 47 0 38 12.8 0 0 12 5 6.7 0 23
5:59:18 PM 89 12.4 2,100.00 101.2 2.2 47 0 38 12.8 0 0 12 5 6.7 0 23
5:59:18 PM 88 12.2 2,100.00 101.2 2.6 48 0 38 13.2 0 0 12 5 7 0 23
5:59:18 PM 89 12.2 2,150.00 101.2 2.9 48 0.1 38 13.2 0 0 12 5 7 0 23
5:59:18 PM 89 12.2 2,150.00 101.2 2.9 48 0 38 13.2 0 0 12 5 7 0 22
5:59:18 PM 88 12.1 2,150.00 101.2 2.9 49 0 38 14 0 0 13 5 7 0 22
5:59:19 PM 88 12 2,200.00 101.2 2.9 49 0 38 14 0 0 13 5 7 0 22
5:59:19 PM 88 12 2,200.00 101.2 2.9 49 0.1 38 14 0 0 13 5 7 0 22
5:59:19 PM 89 12.1 2,200.00 101.2 3.2 49 0 38 14 0 0 13 5 7 0 22
5:59:19 PM 89 12.1 2,250.00 101.2 3.2 50 0 38 14 0 0 13 5 7 0 22
5:59:19 PM 89 12.1 2,250.00 101.2 3.5 50 0.1 38 14 0 0 13 5 7 0 22
5:59:19 PM 89 12.4 2,250.00 101.2 3.8 51 0 38 14.8 0 0 13 5 7.4 0 21
5:59:19 PM 89 12.5 2,300.00 101.2 3.8 51 0.1 38 15.6 0 18.4 13 5 7.4 0 21
5:59:19 PM 89 12.7 2,300.00 101.2 4.2 51 0 38 16 0 18 13 5 7.4 0 21
5:59:19 PM 89 12.7 2,300.00 101.2 4.2 52 0.1 39 15.6 0 18 13 5 7.4 0 21
5:59:19 PM 89 12.9 2,350.00 101.2 4.5 52 0 39 15.6 0 58.4 13 5 7.4 0 21
5:59:20 PM 89 12.9 2,350.00 101.2 4.5 53 0.2 39 15.2 0 69.6 14 5 7.4 0 20
5:59:20 PM 89 13 2,350.00 101.2 4.5 53 0.1 39 15.2 0 79.2 14 5 7.4 0 20
5:59:20 PM 89 13.2 2,350.00 101.2 4.8 53 0.2 39 16 0 91.2 14 6 7.7 0 19
5:59:20 PM 88 13.2 2,400.00 101.2 4.8 53 0.1 39 16.4 0 98.4 14 6 7.7 0 19
5:59:20 PM 89 13.2 2,400.00 101.2 5.1 54 0 39 16.4 0 97.6 14 6 7.7 0 19
5:59:20 PM 88 13.5 2,450.00 101.2 5.4 55 0.1 38 16.4 0 97.6 14 6 7.7 0 19
5:59:20 PM 89 13.5 2,450.00 101.2 5.8 55 0 38 16.8 0 97.2 14 6 8 0 19
5:59:20 PM 89 13.5 2,450.00 101.2 5.8 55 0.1 39 16.8 0 97.2 14 6 8 0 19
5:59:20 PM 89 13.7 2,500.00 101.2 5.8 56 0 39 18 0 97.6 15 6 8 0 18
5:59:20 PM 88 13.7 2,500.00 101.2 6.1 56 0 39 18.4 0 96.8 15 6 8.3 0 18
5:59:21 PM 88 13.5 2,500.00 101.2 6.4 56 0.1 39 18.4 0 96.4 15 6 8.3 0 18
5:59:21 PM 88 13.5 2,550.00 101.2 6.7 57 0 39 19.2 0 96 15 6 8.3 0 18
5:59:21 PM 88 13.2 2,550.00 101.2 7 57 0.3 39 19.6 0 95.6 15 6 8.6 0 17
5:59:21 PM 88 13.2 2,550.00 101.2 7.4 57 0.1 39 19.6 0 94.8 15 6 8.6 0 17
5:59:21 PM 88 13.2 2,600.00 101.2 7.4 58 0.2 39 20 0 95.2 16 6 8.6 0 17
5:59:21 PM 88 13.2 2,600.00 101.2 7.7 59 0.2 39 20.4 0 94.8 16 6 9 0 17
5:59:21 PM 89 13 2,650.00 101.2 8 59 0.1 38 21.6 0 94 16 6 9 0 17
5:59:21 PM 88 13 2,650.00 101.2 8.6 59 0.1 38 22 0 93.6 16 6 9.3 0 17
5:59:21 PM 88 13 2,650.00 101.2 9 60 0 39 22.4 0 92.4 16 6 9.3 0 17
5:59:21 PM 88 12.9 2,700.00 101.2 9 60 0.1 38 22.8 0 92.4 17 6 9.6 0 16
5:59:22 PM 88 12.7 2,700.00 101.2 9.3 60 0 38 23.6 0 92 17 6 9.9 0 16
5:59:22 PM 88 12.5 2,750.00 101.2 9.9 61 0.2 38 25.2 0 90.8 17 6 10.2 0 16
5:59:22 PM 88 12.4 2,750.00 101.2 10.2 61 0.2 38 25.6 0 90.4 17 6 10.6 0 15
5:59:22 PM 88 12.2 2,750.00 101.2 10.6 62 0.3 38 26 0 89.2 18 6 10.9 0 14
5:59:22 PM 88 12 2,800.00 101.2 11.5 62 0.3 38 26.8 0 88 18 7 11.2 0 13
5:59:22 PM 88 12 2,850.00 101.6 11.8 63 0.1 38 28.8 0 87.2 19 7 11.5 0 12
5:59:22 PM 88 11.7 2,850.00 101.2 12.8 64 0.1 38 30 0 86 19 7 12.2 0 12
5:59:22 PM 88 11.7 2,850.00 101.2 13.4 64 0.1 38 31.2 0 84.8 19 7 12.5 0 12
5:59:22 PM 88 11.6 2,950.00 101.2 14.4 65 0 38 32.8 0 83.2 20 7 13.1 0 11
5:59:22 PM 88 11.5 2,900.00 101.2 15 65 0.1 38 34.8 0 82 20 7 14.1 0 11
5:59:23 PM 88 11.4 2,950.00 101.2 15.7 66 0.2 38 36.4 0 80.4 21 7 14.1 0 11
5:59:23 PM 88 11.2 3,000.00 101.2 16.3 66 0.1 38 38 0 80 21 7 14.4 0 11
5:59:23 PM 88 11.1 3,000.00 101.2 17 67 0.1 38 39.2 0 78.4 22 7 14.7 0 11
5:59:23 PM 88 11 3,050.00 101.2 17.9 68 0.3 38 40 0 77.2 22 7 15 0 11
5:59:23 PM 88 11.1 3,050.00 101.2 18.2 68 0.5 38 42.4 0 76.8 23 7 15.4 0 11
5:59:23 PM 88 11 3,100.00 101.6 18.6 69 0.2 38 42 0 76 23 7 15.7 0 11
5:59:23 PM 88 11 3,100.00 101.2 18.6 70 0.2 38 41.6 0 76 23 7 15.4 0 11
5:59:23 PM 88 11 3,150.00 101.2 18.6 71 0.1 38 43.6 0 76 23 7 15.4 0 11
5:59:23 PM 88 11 3,150.00 101.2 18.6 71 0.2 38 44.4 0 76 23 8 15.7 0 11
5:59:23 PM 88 10.9 3,200.00 101.6 18.6 72 0.3 38 43.2 0 76.4 23 8 15.4 0 11
5:59:24 PM 88 10.9 3,250.00 101.2 17.9 73 0.2 38 43.6 0 76.8 23 8 15.4 0 11
5:59:24 PM 88 10.9 3,300.00 101.2 18.2 73 0.4 38 46 0 76.8 23 8 16 0 11
5:59:24 PM 88 10.9 3,250.00 101.2 18.2 74 0.3 38 46.4 0 76.4 22 8 16 0 11
5:59:24 PM 88 10.7 3,300.00 101.2 18.2 74 0.3 38 44.8 0 76.4 22 8 15.4 0 11
5:59:24 PM 88 10.7 3,350.00 101.2 18.2 75 0.5 38 44.8 0 77.2 22 8 15.7 0 11
5:59:24 PM 88 10.7 3,400.00 101.6 18.6 76 0.3 37 47.2 0 76.4 23 9 15.7 0 11
5:59:24 PM 88 10.7 3,400.00 101.2 17.9 76 0.4 37 48.4 0 77.2 23 9 16 0 11
5:59:24 PM 88 10.7 3,450.00 101.2 17.9 77 0.3 37 48 0 77.2 22 9 16 0 11
5:59:24 PM 88 10.9 3,450.00 101.2 17.9 77 0.2 37 47.6 0 77.2 22 9 15.7 0 11
5:59:24 PM 88 11 3,500.00 101.2 18.6 78 0.1 37 47.2 0 76.4 22 9 15.4 0 11
5:59:24 PM 88 11 3,550.00 101.2 18.9 79 0.5 37 49.2 0 76 23 9 15.4 0 11
5:59:25 PM 88 11 3,550.00 101.2 18.9 79 0.4 37 49.6 0 75.6 23 10 15.7 0 11
5:59:25 PM 88 11 3,600.00 101.2 18.6 80 0.3 37 48.4 0 76.4 23 10 15.4 0 12
5:59:25 PM 88 11.1 3,600.00 101.2 18.2 81 0.1 36 48.4 0 76.4 22 10 15.4 0 12
5:59:25 PM 88 11.1 3,650.00 101.2 18.2 82 0.5 37 50 0 77.2 22 10 15.4 0 12
5:59:25 PM 88 11.2 3,700.00 101.2 18.2 82 0.2 36 49.6 0 76.8 23 10 15.7 0 12
5:59:25 PM 88 11.2 3,700.00 101.2 17.9 83 0.2 36 50.8 0 76.8 22 10 15.7 0 12
5:59:25 PM 88 11.1 3,700.00 101.2 18.6 84 0.5 36 51.2 0 76.4 23 10 15.7 0 12
5:59:25 PM 88 11.1 3,750.00 101.2 18.2 84 0.3 36 51.2 0 76.4 22 10 15.7 0 12
5:59:25 PM 88 11 3,800.00 101.6 17.9 85 0.2 36 51.2 0 76.8 22 11 15.7 0 12
5:59:25 PM 88 11 3,800.00 101.2 18.6 85 0.2 36 52.4 0 76.4 23 11 16 0 12
5:59:26 PM 88 11 3,850.00 101.2 18.6 86 0.2 36 54 0 76.4 23 11 16 0 12
5:59:26 PM 88 11 3,850.00 101.2 18.2 87 0.3 36 53.6 0 76.4 22 11 16 0 12
5:59:26 PM 88 10.9 3,900.00 101.2 18.2 87 0.3 36 54 0 76.8 23 11 16 0 12
5:59:26 PM 88 10.7 3,950.00 101.2 18.2 87 0.2 36 53.6 0 76.8 23 11 16 0 12
5:59:26 PM 88 10.7 3,950.00 101.6 18.6 88 0.3 36 55.6 0 76.4 23 12 16.3 0 12
5:59:26 PM 88 10.7 4,000.00 101.2 17.9 89 0.1 36 56.4 0 76.8 22 12 16 0 14
5:59:26 PM 88 10.7 4,000.00 101.2 18.6 90 0.4 36 56.4 0 76 23 12 16 0 13
5:59:26 PM 89 10.6 4,050.00 101.2 18.2 90 0.4 35 56.4 0 76.8 23 12 16 0 13
5:59:26 PM 88 10.6 4,100.00 101.6 17.9 91 0.3 35 56.8 0 77.2 22 12 16 0 14
5:59:26 PM 88 10.6 4,100.00 101.2 17.9 91 0.3 35 57.2 0 77.2 22 12 16 0 14
5:59:27 PM 88 10.6 4,100.00 101.2 18.2 92 0.3 35 57.6 0 77.2 22 12 16 0 14
5:59:27 PM 88 10.7 4,150.00 101.2 17.9 93 0.2 35 58 0 77.2 22 12 16 0 14
5:59:27 PM 88 10.7 4,150.00 101.2 17.9 93 0.5 35 59.2 0 77.2 22 12 16 0 14
5:59:27 PM 88 10.7 4,200.00 101.2 17.9 94 0.5 35 59.2 0 76.8 22 13 15.7 0 14
5:59:27 PM 88 10.9 4,250.00 101.2 17.9 95 0.2 35 58.4 0 77.2 22 13 15.7 0 14
5:59:27 PM 88 10.9 4,250.00 101.6 17.9 95 0.1 34 58.4 0 77.2 22 13 16 0 14
5:59:27 PM 88 10.7 4,250.00 101.6 17.9 95 0.2 34 58.8 0 77.2 22 13 15.7 0 14
5:59:27 PM 88 10.9 4,300.00 101.2 17.9 96 0.2 34 60.4 0 77.2 22 13 15.7 0 14
5:59:27 PM 88 10.9 4,300.00 101.2 17.9 97 0.2 34 60.8 0 76.8 22 13 16 0 14
5:59:27 PM 88 10.9 4,350.00 101.2 17.9 97 0.4 34 59.6 0 77.2 22 13 16 0 14
5:59:28 PM 88 10.9 4,350.00 101.2 17.9 97 0.2 34 59.6 0 77.2 22 13 15.7 0 14
5:59:28 PM 88 11 4,400.00 101.6 17.9 98 0.4 34 61.2 0 77.2 22 14 15.7 0 14
5:59:28 PM 88 11 4,400.00 101.6 17.6 99 0.5 34 60.8 0 77.6 22 14 15.7 0 14
5:59:28 PM 88 11 4,450.00 101.2 17.9 99 0.4 34 62 0 77.2 22 14 16 0 14
5:59:28 PM 88 11 4,500.00 101.2 17.9 100 0.3 34 62.4 0 77.2 22 14 15.7 0 14
5:59:28 PM 88 11 4,500.00 101.2 17.6 101 0.5 34 62 0 77.6 22 14 16 0 14
5:59:28 PM 88 11 4,500.00 101.2 17.9 101 0.3 34 64 0 77.2 22 14 16.3 0 14
5:59:28 PM 88 11 4,500.00 101.6 17.9 101 0.4 34 62.8 0 77.6 22 14 16 0 14
5:59:28 PM 88 10.9 4,550.00 101.2 17.9 102 0.6 34 63.6 0 77.6 22 14 15.7 0 14
5:59:28 PM 88 10.9 4,600.00 68.8 17.9 103 0.6 34 64 0 77.2 22 14 15.7 0 14
5:59:28 PM 88 10.9 4,450.00 0 11.2 102 0.6 34 40.8 0 89.2 17 13 9.6 0 18

fantabulous

10-05-2004, 09:47 PM

what kind of horsepower figures are you looking at? ballpark figure...

CK02WRX

10-05-2004, 10:43 PM

I don't have a clue. I may put it on the dyno one day, but its not a priority. Hopefully I'll hit the track Friday. I have drag raced 3 times in my life so I'm sure I'll have horrible times. I'd like to be running 20 psi by then but I'm not sure I'll have the time to tune. You can tell from the log I posted that I need to tune almost the whole fuel curve at WOT. I want it to be 11-10.9 in the 17psi - 20psi range.

fantabulous

10-06-2004, 12:05 AM

wow, those are pretty impressive figures. i hope you achieve those numbers. let us know how it goes.

engineerx

10-06-2004, 12:50 PM

Any updates on the STi Hydra?
Is it close to release date ?
Will we see it by end of this month ?
I'm not buying anything but Hydra !!!

mnavarro

10-06-2004, 01:41 PM

yeah, I called worldoneperformance monday they said they were going to be shipping out (directly to the customers rather than through worldone) in a few days. I'm hopeful but I'm not holding my breath just yet.

engineerx

10-06-2004, 01:46 PM

Wow ! great news - thanks MNAVARRO...
Hopefully Phil has made great progress w/ testing and there are no issues!
I got my credit card ready to go :D
You will get it before me .... so will be looking forward to your posts once you install it !

bboy

10-06-2004, 11:28 PM

mnavarro,

That's not quite true. Yes, direct shipping may be an option for you, but not everyone will recieve there Hydra from element direct, a "direct only" release does not make sense (release a product as complicated as an ECU with no professional assistance from the get go, without his dealer's total understanding and support, I don't think so).

Phil's working hard to get the product to us, and he will in good time. I too am obsessed with the Hydra, maybe excited is a better word. As far as I know, there are many WRX units out there and their owners are not writing into these boards about their experience. The STI 'drive by wire' units total three that I count, and these units were sent out for testing purposes. How many others Phil has to send out, I don't know. Even one unit with the proper connectors was a feat.

Phil has stated that he is fine tuning STI maps and he is certainly publishing his Tuning Guide in regular installments on these boards and his web site. Other than that, I have heard no conclusive information on the drive by wire units. When Phil ships, mayhem will break out and there will be :banana: :banana: :banana: everywhere. Don't slip!!!! :D

We are close, but let Phil tell us when. It's his baby.

mnavarro

10-06-2004, 11:34 PM

Bboy, I'm sure you're on the pulse of this thing, I just called my vendor because I've been on the waitlist for this thing plus I have a deposit. I'm sure the first units will be for those that have "pre-ordered". I was just relaying what my vendor told me. He is in communication with Phil on almost a daily basis.

STipoweredWRC

10-07-2004, 12:24 AM

engineerx

10-07-2004, 04:08 AM

bboy
Phil , himself has said over the phone that he will be "direct shipping" his retail customers first (from waiting list) - then the dealers get their units to sell. If you call Phil he can confirm that. That is good for end users because Phil is mking sure we get them ASAP - I think that's what MNAVARRO was referring to. I believe Phils is exclusive main distributor for the STi Hydra so they're all coming from same place

bboy

10-07-2004, 06:57 AM

I've been on the waiting list since April. I drove by WorldOne today specifically to investigate if Phil was planning to ship soon as per mnavarro's post.

Nope, no ship date yet on the DBW Hydra. That was my main point. We're all chomping at the bit, but no one is committing to a date.

If you bought it through a dealer you are more likely to recieve it that way (unless you call your dealer and request otherwise, like mnavarro), and if Phil was your dealer, then......

Nobody's jumping ahead in line here. From what I hear, Phil's got a huge list that will take awhile to fill. Garret at W1 suggested today, that Phil ought to find out if the list is still populated by people that still want a Hydra, or if some of the list folks have moved on to other EM systems. Sounds smart to me.

Phil is exclusive for all Subaru, not sure about Evo/Mitsu.

engineerx

10-07-2004, 12:31 PM

Yep - we're all on the same boat! I started waiting for the UTEC - actually placed order and my CC was charged by Vividracing - 3 months went by & no ECU so I cancelled that and started reading about the Hydra so I decided to wait on that one .... I have literally $10k worth of APS parts sitting in my living room..... waitin for the right ECU hehehe! I really hope we get it before the end of the year .... Phil said to me that he would be calling people before shipping so the list will get updated shortly before shipments... can't wait !

engineerx

10-07-2004, 12:34 PM

Location: desperately awaiting utec

You need to change that to desperately awaiting Hydra !!!
or noHydra for you !!! :lol:

Same here, and I can't wait. I've been calling nino 2-3 times a week. :lol:

I'm having anxiety attacks at least once a week .....

mnavarro

10-07-2004, 12:47 PM

Yeah, I have a few parts waiting too, mainly a home port and polish of an SR40 turbo. engineerx, what are you doing for your oil-line for what I'm assuming is an APS turbo.

STipoweredWRC

10-07-2004, 03:25 PM

You need to change that to desperately awaiting Hydra !!!
or noHydra for you !!! :lol:

I'm having anxiety attacks at least once a week .....
Thanks, fixed

Element Tuning

10-07-2004, 08:47 PM

Guys, I’ve been very busy so I apologize for the delayed response and I seriously appreciate your patience. Here is the official information regarding delivery of the Element Hydra STI…..there is truth to everything that has already been stated.

Originally before dealers jumped in, Element had a retail customer list that exceeded the expected number of STI units available in the first shipment. This is why retail customers were going to be shipped to first and then dealers. This is just how the list had formed.

Things have changed now and Element will be receiving the entire shipment at one time. So at this point all orders for dealers and retail customers will be shipped approximately at the same time (it’s going to take a couple of weeks to just process, program, and ship all the orders). The official, official release date is the week after SEMA.

The only people who will get any sort of special treatment are those being custom tuned by yours truly. This is best for all as it lets us test our base mapping on the final production computers and to make changes as required.

Testing has gone smoothly and while we’re still in a long term test phase, all of the components are on the production line and the release date is accurate. I will be sending emails out in batches to finalize the backorder list by taking a small deposit so we can weed those out who are still on the fence. Don’t worry if you don’t receive this email until late next week. Trust me, you’ll get it.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

HOK

10-07-2004, 09:04 PM

lucky bums...

mnavarro

10-07-2004, 09:15 PM

CK02WRX

10-07-2004, 09:36 PM

Thanks for the update, I wonder why my dealer (worldoneperformance) was so off with respect to dates. He gave me the impression that this thing was on it's way next week, when this is clearly not the case. It's looking like late October/early November timeframe, not trying to be a PIA just want to plan my car's down time as I will be putting in a number of parts with the hydra.
If I've learned anything, it has to be that you can never plan down time while you are waiting for a product to arrive. Everytime that I've tried to do that there has been a problem with the production process or somewhere throughout shipping. When it's a new product it's even harder to plan around. It will be worth the wait. I paid for mine in April and went through 4 months of no EM with an ej257 longblock swapped in my 02 wrx running on an 02 wrx ecu. It was worth everyday that I waited.

mnavarro

10-07-2004, 10:14 PM

Well from all the positive feedback thus far it will definitely be worth the wait, and I for one much rather have it "right" than "now not right." I spoke to little god about it's capabilities and he says it's overkill for all but the most sophisticated systems. But a couple of things that I've learned about the UTEC annoyed me, particularly the hesitation when utec takes over timing, and consistency so that ecu can adapt without having to tweak it when the weather changes. It's probably not quite set it and forget it, but the driveability should be superior with its closed loop operation. Not to mention all the the other bells and whistles like auto tune. I like the fact that it's sequential fuel injection, maybe better gas mileage and more power. If you're tuning yourself you definitely want wb02, so with the utec and wb02 the difference in costs between the two systems is negligble. So it's not overkill if you demand those features.

engineerx

10-07-2004, 11:59 PM

Yeah, I have a few parts waiting too, mainly a home port and polish of an SR40 turbo. engineerx, what are you doing for your oil-line for what I'm assuming is an APS turbo.

I got the DR55T which already comes w/ all needed oil lines
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531926

mnavarro

10-08-2004, 12:03 AM

Ok wow, that's a mother of a turbo, very cool. I have much more modest hp goals.

engineerx

10-08-2004, 12:38 AM

hehe ..... I went overboard - I'll be happy with 375 WHP on our crappy 91 gas here in Calif

mnavarro

10-08-2004, 12:49 AM

well i think I'm eventually going to go water injection. It seems like it's a good solution and I rather spend $500 dollars on the water injection than 800-1400 on new TMIC/FMIC. I will keep the this post relevant by saying that the hydra can easily support a 3d map.

bboy

10-08-2004, 03:12 AM

Thanks for the update Phil.

I think SEMA is the first week of November. Yep, Nov 2-5.

AntiochCali

10-08-2004, 07:56 PM

mnavarro

10-08-2004, 09:24 PM

It doesn't look like I will be getting it until late October, early November. I will just have to wait like everybody else. The official release date is the week after SEMA so the inference is don't expect them before then.

CK02WRX

10-08-2004, 11:17 PM

I got a chance to run at the track and I was very happy.
Track results (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=644132)

Blacksubie

10-09-2004, 12:19 AM

So this was your first time tuning a car? Great results. One ? i've never tuned a car and a was thinking of buying the hydra for my swap do you think its a good choice for a tunning noob like me.

CK02WRX

10-09-2004, 08:10 AM

I had about a year of tuning my wrx with th utec and I've tuned other wrx's with the utec but this was the first standalone that I've tuned. It came with a great base map that needed minor tweaking to get it to run right. I spent awhile getting the start-up and idle set and it still needs alittle work. I had to change the injector response time, main fuel map, cranking enrichment, post strat enrichment, knock threashholds, a few other thing, and do a few small changes to the main timing map. That is a lot more work than I would be willing to do if I had never tuned before. If you want a Hydra, have it professionally tuned. If you can, have Phil do it and he'll teach you a lot about the system. He offers one-on-one tuning classes where he teaches a bit and you tune the car with his instruction. If you don't want to get into tuning you might want an ecutek reflash.

engineerx

11-02-2004, 06:11 PM

One Week before STi Hydra is out !! :banana:

Someone slap me - I must be dreaming !

How long does it take to plug it in?
is it as easy as getting to the stock ECU and plugging in the harnesses?

For the Auto-Tuner : does the sensor go to the stock O2 sensor in the cat or??

jared nelson

11-06-2004, 08:13 PM

can i run an auto WRX with stock auto trans and dreaded TCU with the HYDRA?

engineerx

11-08-2004, 12:02 AM

STi Hydra !! STi Hydra !! STi Hydra !!

anyone heard from Phil yet?

T3RMIN4L

11-08-2004, 12:49 PM

I am just as excited as you are engineerx. Cant wait to hear the results pour in.

engineerx

11-08-2004, 01:57 PM

I've been sitting on whole bunch of parts for about 9 months..... 1st waiting for UTEC to be in stock - had order placed w/ Vividrcng for 2 months! then heard about the Hydra... so that's another 6 months wait.....
Element Tuning said STi Hydra was to be shipped this week.... I really hope that's the case ....

I also heard AEM was "suppossed" to be out for SEMA - but it wasn't ready..... and I got really anxious when I heard rumors that AEM was threatening to sue Hydra .... but I think it was either just rumors or an actual threat that did not turn into litigation....

well... I got my $1900 set aside for the EMS ... D R O O L ! ! !

CK02WRX

11-08-2004, 07:52 PM

jared nelson

11-08-2004, 08:34 PM

you muther fukers you cant make a good ecu and charge only 1300 for it!!! specially for a car that we dont provide a product for!! well see you in court!!

CK02WRX

11-08-2004, 09:05 PM

you muther fukers you cant make a good ecu and charge only 1300 for it!!! specially for a car that we dont provide a product for!! well see you in court!!
And don't even think about releasing drive by wire support before us either.

jared nelson

11-08-2004, 09:16 PM

YEAH! call johny C.

STipoweredWRC

11-08-2004, 09:49 PM

YEAH! call johny C.
They're lucky AEM didn't whip out the chewbacca defense! :disco:

HOK

11-08-2004, 11:03 PM

LOL sue hydra... for what.... ?

jared nelson

11-09-2004, 01:31 AM

thats what were discussing

engineerx

11-09-2004, 02:05 AM

These were rumors i heard, hehehe.... this was a couple of months ago .... but the litigation did not go thru as I heard... - I don't know how much of these rumors are actually true. Thr bottom line is that AEM was not able to or did not want to sue at the end.

This type of stuff is common in all industries... companies sue or threat to sue all the time to stop competition or gain time. Typical of big companies trying to stiffle competition from smaller companies that have better products! They like to use their lawyers those damn besterds!

I believe the whole thing had to do with the Hydra DBW. But luckily nothing became of it.
Sorry - It wasn't my intention to get anyone worried - hehehe.... only Hydra Aem probably know how this thing went down... and who knows how much of these rumors were true. So ... no lawsuits and noone should worry at this time about AEM, too late cause the Hydra is comin !

T3RMIN4L

11-09-2004, 10:20 AM

is it coming today? now thats the question of the day.

engineerx

11-09-2004, 04:54 PM

I sure hope so....
Well, 1-week delay is bearable.... I've been waiting 6 months+ for it !

So far...... no word on shipment ! :confused:

mnavarro

11-09-2004, 06:55 PM

I called worldone performance to find out what was the deal, even though they have lost some credibility, to find out what was the word on the shipping. I was told that units were shipping out Thursday.

I am debating on weather or not to get the autotune, I was thinking that if I have a tuner tune it and make a map for me, how much will I will really need the wb 02 sensosr for. Is it just the sensor or is there more to it than that?

Miguel

CK02WRX

11-09-2004, 09:16 PM

mnavarro

11-09-2004, 09:53 PM

engineerx

11-09-2004, 09:55 PM

Miguel mentioned before that WorldOne had given him some dates about availability + they got his $$ I believe.... so they probably were a little eager to make the sale before the product was available - that's what businesses do: sell sell sell !
The fact that the EMS had no concrete release date and the shop was not clear like " no date yet" ..... that can be put in the "credibility" column..... I would rather be told straight out that there's no date for shipment so you have knowledge that your $$ will be in deposit for months!

Doesn't the autotuner allow you to optimize your A/F ? even if a Tuner person sets up your car the AT should come in handy!

CK02WRX

11-10-2004, 05:23 PM

Because they told me that it would be shipping out about 2 months ago. Everytime I called they said that they just got off the phone with phil and that they would be shipping it next week. Then when phil said it would be released after SEMA, I was wondering why my expectations were so misaligned with reality.
One thing that I have learned is that if its a new product that hasn't been released yet it will never be on time there will always be lots of delays. I wouldn't say they lost credibility but that they are relying the most current information they have to you. It just happens to be out dated before they even receive the info. There are so many steps in the process between the retail company, the wholesaler, the products company, the manufacturer, and suppliers for the manufacturer. The only thing you can do is wait. I know it sucks I paid up front and waited a few months plus I was on the waiting list months before the product was out. I would a have waited for a year if I had to. The bottom line is that it works and they are probably still testing eveything to make sure they send you a great product.

mnavarro

11-10-2004, 06:08 PM

bboy

11-10-2004, 08:45 PM

Chill dude!

Phil has a single commitment to a date that I know of, and that date was the week after SEMA--this week. It's Wednesday. If Phil can't ship this week, I expect we'll hear about it from him. With product development that is as good as it gets.

I talk to WorldOne regularly (I know everyone who works there) and no one ever set a date for shipping Element Hydras. Phil set the date a few weeks ago on this board, and he also asked for a down payment (by email) only a very short period prior to when he anticipated shipping functional, tested, production units. I give him high marks for not tying my money up until now. Kudos to Phil Grabow!!

Now, mnavarro, what's really got your panties in wad is the wait. It f***in' sucks to wait. We all hate it. Have a beer and pray that none of us get a last minute email from Phil that says "Due to unforeseen.......". Otherwise, I'm expecting units to start shipping this week to the great celebration of all.

HOK

11-10-2004, 08:50 PM

engine management systems is the last thing I would want rushed...

mnavarro

11-10-2004, 09:04 PM

You know what bboy, really. I have no problem with Phil. My problem is with Worldone. If they told me this 3 months ago I would have no complaints. I have had $1000 dollar deposit for more than 2 months. If you know them so well, ask them what I was told!

But actually I'm really not mad or anything. I'm just calling it what is, I only am piqued by the fact somebody who has no actual knowledge of my situation comments on credability when credability is subjective. For me this vendor has lost credability. Have worldone comment on my post and say it's not true. They have not once apologized for this, I feel that they have just kept me dangling on this subject. I have not received phone calls from them for updates to this matter. I still overall like this vendor and would order from them again because of previous smooth transactions. I know if they had the product they would send it to me. Maybe I was to get a prototype version but that fell through. Whatever it was all they needed to do was communicate that to me. I think I will have a beer now.

CK02WRX

11-10-2004, 11:12 PM

I for the most part am an understanding person when it comes to these things, but in this particular instance you don't know what you're talking about. THEY LOST CREDABILITY IN MY EYES, and that all that matters and I don't really care what you think. IF vendor says next week it will ship, next week it will ship,next week it will ship ... and then to find out that it will be released after SEMA AS PLANNED, then the vendor loses credibility IN MY EYES. I just want a realistic expectation so I can make a decision if I want to wait for this. It's not entirely honest, particularly if the vendor is in "constant communication" with Phil. Can you see the disconnect?
Based on your comments I have had similar problems on more than one occasion with many vendors. I guess some people expect delays and hope for the best. Sorry if you don't like my reply but this thread wasn't titled " complain about XXX vendor here" there is a special forum for that so complain there. Everyone is entiltled to thier own opinion and mine is that Worldone hasn't lost credibility IN MY EYES. This is just the way things work for new products, like it or not. All complaning aside. The Hydra was worth the wait for me.

jared nelson

11-11-2004, 12:11 AM

so if one orders say tomorrow when will he get his hydra

supermarkus

11-11-2004, 02:44 AM

I can't wait to see the time attack results.

CK02WRX

11-11-2004, 10:12 AM

so if one orders say tomorrow when will he get his hydra
Who knows. When I ordered mine I told myself it will get here when it gets here. There is a hugh demand for a product thats not out yet and that causes delays from the begining. The same thing happened with the utec, evo utec, sti utec, and just about every new product that has been released.

T3RMIN4L

11-11-2004, 10:36 AM

If mnavarro was told "next week" then he has a legitimate beef with worldone. You guys defending them shoudl realise that they made a fatal mistake in telling him an exact date. We should all know by now these things come when they come and that NO ONE wants an inferior unit that rushed out but of all people worldone should know this. Im not going to continue anymore of this in this thread so start another if needed mnavarro.

As for the hydra, today is thursday and all we can do is hope for the best that things will go as planned. I personally am looking forward to the results of the first sti hydra getting installed and tuned. I would go as far as saying I am more excited about what this will bring to the table (read: force other vendors to step up to the plate) than any other product currently in development than I am aware of. GO PHIL!!! YOU KNOW YOU ARE THE MAN WITH THE MASTER PLAN. :banana: :banana: :banana:

mnavarro

11-12-2004, 11:15 AM

Has anyone that's been waiting has been asked to pay in full yet?

Element Tuning

11-12-2004, 01:55 PM

Has anyone that's been waiting has been asked to pay in full yet?

What you must remember is that our dealers rely on the information provided by us and the information we rely on comes from the manufacturer, Hydra EMS. All manufacturing delays rely solely on Hydra EMS and not the dealers. We are all dealing with a tough situation the best we can.

The information that the units would arrive at Element Tuning the second week of November was accurate and assured all the way up to November 4th when I met with Hydra during SEMA. Unfortunately I received a call while I was at Time Attack that the shipment is missing somewhere between Asia and California. What are the odds? I would never have asked for a deposit unless I was assured of an accurate delivery date.

We should know more information next week as the Hydra engineer left the US yesterday. Luckily not all the units were on this shipment so the next batch can be shipped out to the US next week.

I apologize for the delay…again.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

bboy

11-12-2004, 03:52 PM

No one at W1 told anybody "next week". Miguel asked to have his Hydra shipped directly instead of routing via W1 (to get it a little eariler). He had orderd a UTEC from W1 and changed his mind. He was offered his money back (on the UTEC) during the interim and turned it down.

I've dealt with WorldOne extensively and compared to other parts dealers they are top notch, totally honest (to their $$ detriment), and commit only when they know they can (no hyping). Now maybe its because they know I'll show up if they behave poorly with me, but I just don't see it. They are a handful of guys who work very hard to maintain loyal customers around the world--and they know their stuff.

Let's just hope the Hydras find their way to Gaithersburg and we are all driving around with big smiles soon.

Phil, how did the Time Attack 2 go with that sup'd car of yours--Hydra, prototype GT30R turbo, StopTech brakes, and all the other trimmings. I've heard nothing about the Skyline of W1, but I heard your car ran well at the event on last Tuesday.

Element Tuning

11-12-2004, 06:16 PM

We did well and knocked off about 2 seconds a lap but I'll post the story next week as soon as I clear out my inbox ;)

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

mnavarro

11-12-2004, 06:19 PM

bboy, I was willing to drop the subject. That's only partially the truth. After changing my mind Garret said should have the Hydra within 2 weeks, and that I would get the first one. Really what's the difference? Every time I called after that they said it was next week. I wasn't asked if I wanted my deposit back, I just wanted to know when it was coming. Why would I want my money back if they kept saying next week? If they said they weren't going to have in a couple of months I would have stayed with the UTEK. GET IT. It's all about managing expectations. Nobody's perfect and in general Worldone is excellent- this however was foobar. But for some reason you think Worldone is beyond reproach. Maybe if you got off your knees you would see things a little differently.

As a followup I called Garret directly. We are working out the situation, he is very understanding and I will comment on this subject no further.

engineerx

11-12-2004, 06:56 PM

....... Unfortunately I received a call while I was at Time Attack that the shipment is missing somewhere between Asia and California. What are the odds? .......

We should know more information next week as the Hydra engineer left the US yesterday. Luckily not all the units were on this shipment so the next batch can be shipped out to the US next week.

I apologize for the delay…again.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Shipment lost somewhere between Asia & California??? aaargh noooooo!!!

I hope that doesn't mean an extra month or longer in delays....

mm... perhaps a conspiracy by other EMS manufacturers!

miraclemonkeywrx

11-13-2004, 08:28 PM

You were "willing to drop it", come on, you brought it back up.

engineerx

11-16-2004, 03:11 PM

Any updates on location of shipment?

I'll volunteer for a search party.... I just need 5 valiant souls + one EMS-bearer (must be 4"2" and have hairy feet)

T3RMIN4L

11-16-2004, 03:15 PM

Any updates at all?

jared nelson

11-16-2004, 03:17 PM

when things go quiet, that means the motor blew.

engineerx

11-16-2004, 07:07 PM

The dark side of UTEC beckons.......

engineerx

11-16-2004, 07:09 PM

........The information that the units would arrive at Element Tuning the second week of November was accurate and assured all the way up to November 4th when I met with Hydra during SEMA. Unfortunately I received a call while I was at Time Attack that the shipment is missing somewhere between Asia and California. What are the odds? I would never have asked for a deposit unless I was assured of an accurate delivery date.

We should know more information next week as the Hydra engineer left the US yesterday. Luckily not all the units were on this shipment so the next batch can be shipped out to the US next week.

I apologize for the delay…again.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Any news? any new info on status of shipment?

I need some valium..... the suspense is killing me !

Thanks.

T3RMIN4L

11-16-2004, 07:35 PM

As bleh as I am about STI utec, I would have long sold or blown the car up without it so to me its served its purpose. Now where's that damn hydra to come to my rescue as I was turned toward the darkside soem time ago?