I recently bought an 05' STI. I took it to the dealership to check on some noise coming from the differential area. It turns out that the noise was normal to them.
Anyways, I started asking the service writer about engine mods, exhaust, & warranty issues etc.. He told me that the car has a separate computer that tells them if the owner has tampered with the engine or ecu in anyway.

This scared me somewhat b/c im planning on doing some engine mods pretty soon.

Is this true or not?

My future plans are:
ecu upgrade (ecutek, turbo xs, emanage, element) don't know which one yet
tbe

Havent heard of it and doubt it but if anyone knows then give me a heads up.

Havent heard of it and doubt it but if anyone knows then give me a heads up.

sure will.

... He told me that the car has a separate computer that tells them if the owner has tampered with the engine or ecu in anyway.
...
Sounds very unlikely; however, I *have* heard that dealerships will be getting new equipment for ECU reflashing that *will* allow them to determine if you have had a non-Subaru reflash on your ECU. My guess is that such a reflash would result in denied warranty claims for pretty much the whole engine/drivetrain.

A lot of data is stored in the ECU. If its been flashed to allow a higher redline (fuel cut off moved up), then the dealer would be able to see if the engine hit levels above stock redline. That's all. Any other dealers around? That one's gonna be a PITA all the time.

A lot of data is stored in the ECU. If its been flashed to allow a higher redline (fuel cut off moved up), then the dealer would be able to see if the engine hit levels above stock redline. That's all. Any other dealers around? That one's gonna be a PITA all the time.


How though?

When your check engine light comes on and they pull the code, they are able to determine when it happened, mph, etc

For example...CEL for loose gas cap
not only determined by the code, but they can tell RPM's, usually around 1000, MPH, 0, etc...

What rexygirl is speaking of is called freeze-frame data- it depends upon the year/model on what exactly is recorded with the CEL and what error code triggers it, but it does record a great deal more data than you would ever see from a scanner other than the Subaru Select Monitor is capable of seeing. What the 04 and 05 STi has (others do too) is a non-volatile memory- you can unplug it for 10 years and still not wipe the data that is in it; Subaru will always be able to retrieve that info.


Brian

http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/home.jpg (http://www.ravensblade.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/impreza.jpg (http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/imprezamods.jpg (http://www.imprezamods.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/dmw.jpg (http://www.deniedmywarranty.org) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/bratthumb.jpg (http://brat.ravensblade-impreza.com)

exactly is recorded with the CEL and what error code triggers it, but it does record a great deal more data than you would ever see from a scanner other than the Subaru Select Monitor is capable of seeing.


Brian

http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/home.jpg (http://www.ravensblade.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/impreza.jpg (http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/imprezamods.jpg (http://www.imprezamods.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/dmw.jpg (http://www.deniedmywarranty.org) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/bratthumb.jpg (http://brat.ravensblade-impreza.com)

so it only records data when CEL triggers?? or its always recording high abnormal levels?

Freeze-frame data is captured when the first code in memory is stored. It is available on all OBDII cars and can be seen with a full-function OBDII scanner. Its purpose is to aid in diagnosis and troubleshooting but could theoretically provide evidence of abusive driving, as it will show the vehicle conditions when the code was set. So, if the freeze-frame for your CEL shows that it was set at 120MPH, 6.5K RPM etc. your dealer might not be too happy with you.
Interesting about the non-volatile memory Brian. How much is retained- is it just code history or more, and does the learned data remain or get cleared? I'd assume the readiness tests will still reset as that is an OBDII requirement.

that is an OBDII requirement.

so if i get my hands on an OBDII scanner i could erase incriminating info?? :huh:

I know that a lot of US cars record freeze frame data in their airbag controllers and that can be used in accident investigations. I don't think Subys do that but maybe this is similar?

Interesting about the non-volatile memory Brian. How much is retained- is it just code history or more, and does the learned data remain or get cleared? I'd assume the readiness tests will still reset as that is an OBDII requirement.

From what I am told, every code that is ever thrown is stored, along with any pertinent freeze frame data. Under normal circumstances, a dealership tech would never clear the stored code memory (they may not even be able to- I haven't looked into it that much as of yet).

so if i get my hands on an OBDII scanner i could erase incriminating info?? :huh:

No- this data is manufacturer-specific and is not available to standard OBD-II scanners, only the Subaru Select Monitor system... the new version is due out soon, and only runs about $7000 if you want one- it comes with a wireless printer though ;).


Brian

http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/home.jpg (http://www.ravensblade.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/impreza.jpg (http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/imprezamods.jpg (http://www.imprezamods.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/dmw.jpg (http://www.deniedmywarranty.org) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/bratthumb.jpg (http://brat.ravensblade-impreza.com)

only the Subaru Select Monitor system... the new version is due out soon, and only runs about $7000 if you want one- it comes with a wireless printer though ;).


Brian

http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/home.jpg (http://www.ravensblade.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/impreza.jpg (http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/imprezamods.jpg (http://www.imprezamods.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/dmw.jpg (http://www.deniedmywarranty.org) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/bratthumb.jpg (http://brat.ravensblade-impreza.com)[/QUOTE]



Don't underestimate people by saying "only runs about $7000 if you want one"
Buddy, you wouldn't imagine the machinesss that i have, so keep your sarcastic comments to yourself. I just bought my 1st subaru and i want to know the diagnostics of it.

so your saying if i had this machine, i would be able to clear high values?

There is not a dedicated computer that tells when you had mods.

That is what the technician is for. We can tell when you have dicked around with a car.

only the Subaru Select Monitor system... the new version is due out soon, and only runs about $7000 if you want one- it comes with a wireless printer though ;).


Brian

http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/home.jpg (http://www.ravensblade.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/impreza.jpg (http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/imprezamods.jpg (http://www.imprezamods.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/dmw.jpg (http://www.deniedmywarranty.org) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/bratthumb.jpg (http://brat.ravensblade-impreza.com)



Don't underestimate people by saying "only runs about $7000 if you want one"
Buddy, you wouldn't imagine the machinesss that i have, so keep your sarcastic comments to yourself. I just bought my 1st subaru and i want to know the diagnostics of it.

so your saying if i had this machine, i would be able to clear high values?[/QUOTE]

And your point?

He's telling you it is $7,000 and if you want to waste your money on a tool that you will only use once or twice then go for it. I see zero sarcasm, only useful information. Just be glad that people like Brian, Rexygirl and myself are on here to give you straight no BS answers.

Hondaslayer,

Im not saying anything about Rexygirl or yourself! ;)

I did notice somewhat sarcasm from brian but no big deal who cares!

Who ever says a comment like "runs only for $7000", and doesn't mean a little sarcasm??
So, mine your own business and go send private messages to Rexygirl. :p


Thank you,
Ralph
Ps. I do appriciate ALL the info i find here

:D Hondaslayer....send me a PM!!! :lol:

I think he (hondaslayer) is just getting fed up with all the useless information on here and needs to be sarcastic once and awhile

:D Hondaslayer....send me a PM!!! :lol:

I think he (hondaslayer) is just getting fed up with all the useless information on here and needs to be sarcastic once and awhile

Rexygirl,

What you said wasn't useless, you did teach me something i didn't know.

Thank you!
Ralph

speedyralph must have eleventy-bannilion dollars! :banana:
I'm no bannilionair, I have trouble keeping my gas tank full :(

Are the printouts available from the dealer. If they pull a code, will they usually show you all the information or will they just say its its due to the gas cap being to loose.

Useful since someone mentioned it stores all codes (confirmed?). It would help when buying a used car. Be nice to bring it to a dealer and say print out all the code history information.

Do relflashed units loose or retain this information?

Rexygirl,

What you said wasn't useless, you did teach me something i didn't know.

Thank you!
Ralph


I know....I was just being funny...I am in that kind of mood today.
Glad we provided you with good info

I did notice somewhat sarcasm from brian but no big deal who cares!

and


I do appriciate ALL the info i find here

Just not from me apparently ;). They won't sell you one anyway, "buddy", no matter how much you pay. It's a dealership-only item. There are people here who will forget more about Subaru's today than you will ever learn. Try to keep that in mind.

Rexygirl, hondaslayer and I get fed up when we tell people things they don't want to hear and then they get pissy about it ;). I know I haven't and I don't think he has ever minded helping out someone who asked for help.


Brian

http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/home.jpg (http://www.ravensblade.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/impreza.jpg (http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/imprezamods.jpg (http://www.imprezamods.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/dmw.jpg (http://www.deniedmywarranty.org) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/bratthumb.jpg (http://brat.ravensblade-impreza.com)

and



They won't sell you one anyway, "buddy", no matter how much you pay.

Brian



Lets just say i could get my hands on an OBDII scanner. Do you know which scanner exactly? b/c if its just an OBDII scanner, i could get one easily.

& i happen to know people who know other people that work in the inside :cool:

keep in mind, I'm from Miami, the town of who you know!!
"BUDDY"

Ralph

OBDII scanners are readily available. However they will only allow you to read the generic OBDII data from the ECU, and not the proprietary data available to the Subaru Monitor. The Monitor communicates with the ECU using a different protocol than OBDII.

Lets just say i could get my hands on an OBDII scanner. Do you know which scanner exactly? b/c if its just an OBDII scanner, i could get one easily.

I went back and read what I posted and it was a bit confusing. A standard OBD-II scanner is easy enough to get but it won't do the job. The Subaru Select Monitor is what you'd need, and it's that $7000 item that Subaru will only sell to a licensed dealership :).


Brian

http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/home.jpg (http://www.ravensblade.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/impreza.jpg (http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/imprezamods.jpg (http://www.imprezamods.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/dmw.jpg (http://www.deniedmywarranty.org) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/bratthumb.jpg (http://brat.ravensblade-impreza.com)

I generally grasp what I need.

I haven't moded my 05 STI but like i said on my other thread: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=638208

I unplugged the vacum hose from the wastegate to get more boost, not knowing the consiquences, after fuel was cut off my CEL poped up & then it turned off by itself. After posting my current thread on the 2nd computer issue, I learned that when the CEL pops up it automatically freezes the current values.

So here i am concern about this freeze frame issue before mods, little do I know, I already froze incriminating values to my ECU.

This is why I need to get my hands on the famous OBDII by Subaru only.

Ralph

I went back and read what I posted and it was a bit confusing. A standard OBD-II scanner is easy enough to get but it won't do the job. The Subaru Select Monitor is what you'd need, and it's that $7000 item that Subaru will only sell to a licensed dealership :).It's worse than confusing - it's wrong. Any ISO9141 OBD-II scan tool can clear freeze frame data memory. And anyone can buy a Subaru Select Monitor, from the same place Subaru dealers buy them, SPX Kent-Moore (http://subaru.spx.com) (see http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/faq.jsp#2442).

']It's worse than confusing - it's wrong. Any OBD-II scan tool can clear freeze frame data memory. And anyone can buy a Subaru Select Monitor, from the same place Subaru dealers buy them, SPX Kent-Moore (http://subaru.spx.com) (see http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/faq.jsp#2442).


I see clearly now the rain is gone.. :banana:

I knew I would get a clear answer. I should of known this b/c when a friend of mine bought the Snap-On scanner he had to buy diff. thingis for specific cars he would work on.

Ralph

']It's worse than confusing - it's wrong. Any ISO9141 OBD-II scan tool can clear freeze frame data memory. And anyone can buy a Subaru Select Monitor, from the same place Subaru dealers buy them, SPX Kent-Moore (http://subaru.spx.com) (see http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/faq.jsp#2442).

Jon,


Thats only partially correct.

He can buy the tool from Kent-Moore, but the software is SOA only and is only available to dealers.


BTW We are beta testing the new monitor starting on monday. Us and dealer in Jersey are the only two that have them.

']It's worse than confusing - it's wrong. Any ISO9141 OBD-II scan tool can clear freeze frame data memory.

In your quest to always be right, you have fallen short of the facts, again. Freeze frame data can be cleared by most OBD-II readers. However, the non-volatile EPROMs accessible only by the Select Monitor will still retain the information. You can clear the standard ECU by pulling power from it for long enough, no reader/scanner required.


Brian

http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/home.jpg (http://www.ravensblade.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/impreza.jpg (http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/imprezamods.jpg (http://www.imprezamods.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/dmw.jpg (http://www.deniedmywarranty.org) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/bratthumb.jpg (http://brat.ravensblade-impreza.com)

Jon,


Thats only partially correct.

He can buy the tool from Kent-Moore, but the software is SOA only and is only available to dealers.


BTW We are beta testing the new monitor starting on monday. Us and dealer in Jersey are the only two that have them.Well, does software = cartridge? If so, then I can buy that from SPX, too (see http://subaru.spx.com/detail.asp?partid=24082AA230RA).

I'm very curious about the SSMIII. I hope you haven't had to sign any NDA and can talk about its features/capabilities/limitations here.

In your quest to always be right, you have fallen short of the facts, again. Freeze frame data can be cleared by most OBD-II readers. However, the non-volatile EPROMs accessible only by the Select Monitor will still retain the information. You can clear the standard ECU by pulling power from it for long enough, no reader/scanner required.First, a non-volatile EPROM can only be cleared (erased) by exposure to UV light and can only be programmed (written to) with a "PROM burner." I very much doubt the STi's ECU has either capability.

I do try "to always be right" and I hope everyone who posts here does also.

You wrote earlier:What rexygirl is speaking of is called freeze-frame data- it depends upon the year/model on what exactly is recorded with the CEL and what error code triggers it, but it does record a great deal more data than you would ever see from a scanner other than the Subaru Select Monitor is capable of seeing. What the 04 and 05 STi has (others do too) is a non-volatile memory- you can unplug it for 10 years and still not wipe the data that is in it; Subaru will always be able to retrieve that info.The freeze frame data that is snap-shot when a diagnotic trouble code is stored is exactly (more or less) the variables/parameters that OBD-II regulations require. There is no significant hidden data in the snap-shot that can only be retrieved by an SSM.

To confirm this I consulted a 2004 STI (US) service manual. Please compare these two snippets:
http://www.auto-epc.ru/2004%20STI/02.%20ENGINE%20SECTION%20(STi)/11.%20ENGINE%20(DIAGNOSTICS)/08.%20OBD-II%20General%20Scan%20Tool.pdf (OBD-II scan tool freeze frame data - see p. 2)
http://www.auto-epc.ru/2004%20STI/02.%20ENGINE%20SECTION%20(STi)/11.%20ENGINE%20(DIAGNOSTICS)/09.%20Subaru%20Select%20Monitor.pdf (SSM freeze frame data - see p. 5)

And then there are these instructions to clear that data if you have an SSM:
http://www.auto-epc.ru/2004%20STI/02.%20ENGINE%20SECTION%20(STi)/11.%20ENGINE%20(DIAGNOSTICS)/13.%20Clear%20Memory%20Mode.pdf

']First, a non-volatile EPROM can only be cleared (erased) by exposure to UV light and can only be programmed (written to) with a "PROM burner." I very much doubt the STi's ECU has either capability...
I respect your knowledge, Jon, but here he's obviously talking about EEPROM or flash memory, which are each easily erasable and rewriteable with modest circuitry that would be included in any device that used them.

I generally grasp what I need.

I haven't moded my 05 STI but like i said on my other thread: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=638208

I unplugged the vacum hose from the wastegate to get more boost, not knowing the consiquences, after fuel was cut off my CEL poped up & then it turned off by itself. After posting my current thread on the 2nd computer issue, I learned that when the CEL pops up it automatically freezes the current values.

So here i am concern about this freeze frame issue before mods, little do I know, I already froze incriminating values to my ECU.

This is why I need to get my hands on the famous OBDII by Subaru only.

Ralph


As posted above, he only wants to try and "clear" his mistake. I think purchasing the scanner to do this is just dumb. Leave it alone Ralph. It's highly unlikely that it will be used against you . From what I read in your previous posts, it is your mods that may get you in trouble, not "accidently" triggering your check engine light.

Forget about it, it's not worth it.

all right guys all this sh@t talk about your ecu keeping memory codes forever is just talk. I am a A.S.E master tech, i have my smog liscense, and my advance engine performnace liscence. the pc stores codes yes but when you clear them they are gone same with freeze frame. all this talk about a special tool that only subaru has blablabla, yes they have a special tool but all it is a obdII scanner with extra wiring harness for testing. get your selves a good 7k snap on scanner and you have a even better tool than that subaru direct piece of u know what. i have been working in this field for over 6 years and man all these people talking out of their behind trying to scare fellow owners.rexygirl and a few others are really trying to help but theres these people that think they know butdont even know how to think.if you have something to back you guys up ( the people that say o the dealer will know if you fart in your car) man you just piss me off. Ill back you guys in this one rexygirl....and you other guys bring it i have theknowledge and experience to tear down any car computer system and all ... bring it man i was gettin alittle bored but now im all fire up. :devil:


hey rexygirl u the same one as in forum subaru?

all right guys all this sh@t talk about your ecu keeping memory codes forever is just talk. I am a A.S.E master tech, i have my smog liscense, and my advance engine performnace liscence. the pc stores codes yes but when you clear them they are gone same with freeze frame. all this talk about a special tool that only subaru has blablabla, yes they have a special tool but all it is a obdII scanner with extra wiring harness for testing. get your selves a good 7k snap on scanner and you have a even better tool than that subaru direct piece of u know what. i have been working in this field for over 6 years and man all these people talking out of their behind trying to scare fellow owners.rexygirl and a few others are really trying to help but theres these people that think they know butdont even know how to think.if you have something to back you guys up ( the people that say o the dealer will know if you fart in your car) man you just piss me off. Ill back you guys in this one rexygirl....and you other guys bring it i have theknowledge and experience to tear down any car computer system and all ... bring it man i was gettin alittle bored but now im all fire up. :devil:


hey rexygirl u the same one as in forum subaru?


You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

hey rexygirl u the same one as in forum subaru?


Yup, that's me. By the way, what kind of car do you work on? Every manufacturer is different with what their "scanners' can do. I have seen the freeze frame data screen myself and have seen it being pulled back up from the memory. I just think to pay $7K for a scanner is ridiculous for private use. Think about this: If you paid a dealer (or any other shop) $80.00 everytime to pull the code, you would have to go there about 87 times just to justify the purchase. I have never heard of a car haveing a CEL 87 times. Lets say you have 40 CELs, and you pull the codes for your friends, too. You would have to help 47 of your friends and charge them $80 a pop. How many people charge their friends?


I guess some people just have money to burn....I am not one of them

Yup, that's me. By the way, what kind of car do you work on? Every manufacturer is different with what their "scanners' can do. I have seen the freeze frame data screen myself and have seen it being pulled back up from the memory. I just think to pay $7K for a scanner is ridiculous for private use. Think about this: If you paid a dealer (or any other shop) $80.00 everytime to pull the code, you would have to go there about 87 times just to justify the purchase. I have never heard of a car haveing a CEL 87 times. Lets say you have 40 CELs, and you pull the codes for your friends, too. You would have to help 47 of your friends and charge them $80 a pop. How many people charge their friends?


I guess some people just have money to burn....I am not one of them


And the fact that the average person is not going to have a clue how this new one works... We have been using the generic software for about two monthe's now and it is sooooooo far advanced from the old monitor its not even funny. We get the Subaru specific software on monday, should be rather nice :D

oh yea honda slayer i dont know what im talking about lets see i went and have an engineering degree, master tech , smog liscense, advanced engine performance liscence. hmmmmmmmmm guess i dont know nothing. I have been doing computerized diagnosis from vw to porche mercedes and even cars you will never be close to so i gues i dont know anything, yes i have all the tools i have a couple of shops, one in mexico where i design and build my own cars. also note freeze frame is recorded every time you turn your car on so you will always have freeze frame......from a-z any manufacturer you can think of i have worked on and diagnosed. these damn dealership mechanics think they know everything but guess what working for a lemon attorney i have had all you mistakes in here properly diagnosed them and helped in suing these called top of the line dealership techs.... :lol:

oh yea honda slayer i dont know what im talking about lets see i went and have an engineering degree, master tech , smog liscense, advanced engine performance liscence. hmmmmmmmmm guess i dont know nothing. I have been doing computerized diagnosis from vw to porche mercedes and even cars you will never be close to so i gues i dont know anything, yes i have all the tools i have a couple of shops, one in mexico where i design and build my own cars. also note freeze frame is recorded every time you turn your car on so you will always have freeze frame......from a-z any manufacturer you can think of i have worked on and diagnosed. these damn dealership mechanics think they know everything but guess what working for a lemon attorney i have had all you mistakes in here properly diagnosed them and helped in suing these called top of the line dealership techs.... :lol:

You obviously know alot about cars, I think the questions was: Have you ever used a select monitor from Subaru before? The new updated one? That is what we are talking about. Unless you can say you have used a "brand specific" monitor or scanner, you don't know what we are talking about. A child could operate any OBD II scanner (at least my daughter could, she's 10) Having a bunch of degrees and owning a few shops doesn't mean you know EVERYTHING about a certain brand of vehicles. Being ASE certified means you have general knowledge about all cars....not specifics. Hell, even the Subaru techs learn something new everyday and get sent to school.

No one on this post has claimed to "know everything" about Subaru or their select monitor. We are simply talking about something you are not familiar with.....


And hopefully working for that attorney you had a secretary.....

on the contrary i have used the new european disagnostic systems the jap, american, i have to get updated clases to keepm my liscenses gopin and yea i have used the subie scanners, the very new one we have workshops that we can go to. if you guys wanna belive it ok but hey im just trying to tell the facts from fiction its up to u to believe.i only try to help , this is why so many knowledgeable people stay away from internet forums.
by the way let me see being the only certified auto repair shop in mexico, i get opportunities to go and get dealer only technology. but guess ill do like i was before, just reading in the background like other guys i know here who even work for sub, and various other dealerships. :D

but guess ill do like i was before, just reading in the background like other guys i know here who even work for sub, and various other dealerships. :D

I dont do that!! Things are different here in the states with emissions. Your scanner is obviouly different than ours. Like I said before, being certified does not mean you know everything about all makes and models. This post is not about who knows what, rather someone wanted to know if something could be cleared from the memory of their ECU. He obviouly doesn;t care about this post anymore (he hasn't posted in a while) and found his answers. Being subjected to this information day in and day out, I think hondaslayer and I know what we are talking about. Having used a select monitor at one time or another does not mean you know what it is all about. I am going to stop posting on this now...it's not worth it anymore

Forget about it, it's not worth it.


Ofcourse im not burning 7grand just to use once or twice. :eek:
I simply want to know the exact machine and process to erase incriminating values.

Ralph :alien:

^--Tada I got an idea.. How about Nasioc buy one and let owners come to a location to use it and pay a small fee to do so?

I recently bought an 05' STI. I took it to the dealership to check on some noise coming from the differential area. It turns out that the noise was normal to them.
Anyways, I started asking the service writer about engine mods, exhaust, & warranty issues etc.. He told me that the car has a separate computer that tells them if the owner has tampered with the engine or ecu in anyway.

This scared me somewhat b/c im planning on doing some engine mods pretty soon.

Is this true or not?

My future plans are:
ecu upgrade (ecutek, turbo xs, emanage, element) don't know which one yet
tbe
Here's a direct quote from the Cobb FAQ
"Q. Can a dealer detect that I have an AccessPORT (AccessECU reflash)?

A. With the tools currently available at Subaru dealerships, it is not possible for them to detect that the ECU has been modified. We own the same service tools used by all Subaru dealerships and have verified that their function is unaltered by the AccessECU. Therefore, your vehicle can be serviced by the dealership in the same way as a stock vehicle."
However, I did read on the Cobb support forum that while the AP can clear check engine codes, it won't clear driving history. In other words, if you beat the hell out of the car, the dealer will still know. Now I know that I'm talking about an AccessPort here but I would figure that it's gonna be the same story with most other similar devices/ECU flashes so be careful.

oh yea honda slayer i dont know what im talking about lets see i went and have an engineering degree, master tech , smog liscense, advanced engine performance liscence. hmmmmmmmmm guess i dont know nothing. I have been doing computerized diagnosis from vw to porche mercedes and even cars you will never be close to so i gues i dont know anything, yes i have all the tools i have a couple of shops, one in mexico where i design and build my own cars. also note freeze frame is recorded every time you turn your car on so you will always have freeze frame......from a-z any manufacturer you can think of i have worked on and diagnosed. these damn dealership mechanics think they know everything but guess what working for a lemon attorney i have had all you mistakes in here properly diagnosed them and helped in suing these called top of the line dealership techs.... :lol:


You sound like a typical arrogant ASE master technician. I have two techs that I go to for all the tough stuff, and they are not Master technicians. My ASE master technician is an idiot, I do not trust him to diagnose ANYTHING. Having the certification does not make you a master of anything.

on the contrary i have used the new european disagnostic systems the jap, american, i have to get updated clases to keepm my liscenses gopin and yea i have used the subie scanners, the very new one we have workshops that we can go to. if you guys wanna belive it ok but hey im just trying to tell the facts from fiction its up to u to believe.i only try to help , this is why so many knowledgeable people stay away from internet forums.
by the way let me see being the only certified auto repair shop in mexico, i get opportunities to go and get dealer only technology. but guess ill do like i was before, just reading in the background like other guys i know here who even work for sub, and various other dealerships. :D


You have not used the very new one unless you work for SOA or me. Come monday a selected dealer in Jersey will recieve the new one. So far Myself and two of my techs are the ONLY people outside of SOA and SPX Kentmoore to use the new monitor.

You have not used the very new one unless you work for SOA or me. Come monday a selected dealer in Jersey will recieve the new one. So far Myself and two of my techs are the ONLY people outside of SOA and SPX Kentmoore to use the new monitor.

So is there a way then in your opinion to erase incriminating values?

Maybe disconnecting the battery for 30 min. and pressing the brake like that other guy said earlier in this thread?

Ralph

This is the best "my-mechanic-can-beat-up-your-mechanic" thread ever.

So is there a way then in your opinion to erase incriminating values?

Maybe disconnecting the battery for 30 min. and pressing the brake like that other guy said earlier in this thread?

Ralph


Not with the new ecm's.

You can erase the current ecm data, but not the stored data.

Not with the new ecm's.

You can erase the current ecm data, but not the stored data.


my 05' has the new ecm, right?

Yup.

Can't even swap it with a clean ecm. It is programmed with the BIU. Car will start, then stall out.

This is the best "my-mechanic-can-beat-up-your-mechanic" thread ever.


....and it 'aint dead, YET???

yea your one of only a few well your wrong i was just visiten by a rep from subaru about mid this year to make me aware and make available all their tools and vehicle info for all 05 models so i dont know, anyday i will take on your techs but oh wait just like rexygirl im not playing this foolish game anymore. i was trying to make tools and info avaliable to all you guys here but a certain person who is the only one of a few that has had the new tool in his hands and doesnt think anyone else could have more knowledge than him is making alot of good help go bye bye, i do know a few subaru techs that are part of this board and that is one reason you never see em post.

Hey Rexygirl i do have another business here in California where emissions are the toughest so i am up to date on what each ecu and scan tool has, every year we have to take special courses just to keep updated on new technology6 and new models. take care ,

Hmmmm

I think not.
I just asked the SPX guys who else has this info and all that knew about these tools were in the room. You were not.

Yup.

Can't even swap it with a clean ecm. It is programmed with the BIU. Car will start, then stall out.What if the clean ECU was for a 2004 STi (no immoblizer)? BTW, what's a BIU?

']What if the clean ECU was for a 2004 STi (no immoblizer)? BTW, what's a BIU?
Would not work at all would be my guess. The ecm is coded to the BIU ( Body Integrated Unit)

hondaslayer - Does it only store freeze-frame data when it throws a CEL, or does it collect other info as you drive? Some cars store an event record every time vehicle speed exceeds a certain threshold, or if engine speed exceeds redline by 200 (or whatever) rpm. To me, the latter would be valid diagnostic info, but the former is a little more like snooping.

Is there any info you can share about what kind of data the new system collects, and under what conditions?

Collects data when a reading goes outside of the set parametres.

See this thread regarding reflash detection/prevention.

Do the new monitors have a checksum capability?

I.e. can the CIN/CVN be calculated offboard (as opposed to trusing the ECU response) via reading the ECU content out?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7855853#post7855853

why would you worry about this if you weren't trying pull one over on the dealer?

Hey... I have an 02 anyway so why do I care ;)

I'm not. I don't hide my modifications. Just AP stage 1 +koni/prodrive now, but catted Cobb downpipe on the way, which will be pretty obvious anyway.

However, smog would be an issue if they're not only checking ODB and doing a sniffer test (personally I would never run catless in any case), but an ECU checksum as well.

Dropped my 2004 WRX Wagon off at da dealer with my AccessPort uninstalled and they know all about it from the ECU record of all the times my car exceeded the acceptable boost range.

Dropped my 2004 WRX Wagon off at da dealer with my AccessPort uninstalled and they know all about it from the ECU record of all the times my car exceeded the acceptable boost range.

Damn!!
Did you get voided?

Damn!!
Did you get voided?
Well here's my post from www.WRXlinks.com explaining everything. Oh and by the way, I'm stopping into the dealer to have a private conversation regarding my mods. Appearantly he was freaking out (in a bad way) about my mods. Gonna try to put out that fire.
"Got the call I dreaded today, bad clutch warranty denied! I said OK how much for the SPT clutch? They tell me $2100 and the tranny will no longer have coverage! I was like "What". I asked to talk to the technician and they said he left for the day. He claims that because I'm so modded there's nothing under warranty. I said "BOV, and K+N filter is heavily modded? (3/16 mod removed and AccessPort uninstalled)" I told them there's no way I burnt the clutch out...I don't drop at 5,000rpm's, I never track it or off road it, and I only street race occassionally. I also stated that this is Subaru's "Mustang !" I mean you market it as your performance model do they expect we're not gonna go hard on it at times. She was pretty cool with me and told me she would see what she could do. Calls me later and tells me that they'll cover it but they will not ever pay for another clutch again and I have to sign something that says that. Good news in the end. I asked them when I dropped it off though that if it was a bad clutch could I pay to upgrade to SPT clutch? Dealer tells me no but call 800-subaru3. I call them and the guy puts me on hold and says "I checked with 3 bosses here and they said yeah but I have to pay the difference and they won't warranty the part for the future". He also tells me he'll open a case for the dealership to do this more smoothly but then dealer still says no. I'm not pushing this issue with the dealer because I'm kinda disappointed about this. I mean never burned up a clutch like that in my 300ZX and I used to beat the hell out of that car! Now I'm gonna have the same crappy clutch in it again! Great! I think this will be my last SUBARU!"

Would not work at all would be my guess. The ecm is coded to the BIU ( Body Integrated Unit)
Does this only apply to Subaru's that come factory equipped with the alarm?

']What if the clean ECU was for a 2004 STi (no immoblizer)? BTW, what's a BIU?
If the BIU is the same as the Body Control Module, then it is the box of relays (and I am assuming some logic circuits) that control the door locks, power windows and a few other convience items. If it is in fact something completly different, then let us know. :)

Yup.

Can't even swap it with a clean ecm. It is programmed with the BIU. Car will start, then stall out.


So what happens if someone steals a STi's ECU? Is the car now scrap? Or can the $7,000 box re-key an ECU to the BIU?

I have an 03 sedan that flashed the 1507 cel. Brought it to the dealer to get it checked out(long story in of itself). They pulled the codes from the ECU and the cal # indicated I had a 02 ECU. I'm currently running Cobb's vf 34 map. Yes I verified that I in fact have a 03 ECU but the dealer still stopped all work on the car. By the way the 1507 was caused by a dirty Idle Air Control valve.

I have an 03 sedan that flashed the 1507 cel. Brought it to the dealer to get it checked out(long story in of itself). They pulled the codes from the ECU and the cal # indicated I had a 02 ECU. I'm currently running Cobb's vf 34 map. Yes I verified that I in fact have a 03 ECU but the dealer still stopped all work on the car. By the way the 1507 was caused by a dirty Idle Air Control valve.


....tha's because Cobb flashes(ed....used to anyway) the '03's back to '02 parameters as a base to 'tune from'.

....and the other poster with the clutch issue should understand that the stock clutch is, really, a great clutch and it is usually operator error that kills clutches on AWD cars.
I have, and have had, ~300whp on my stock clutch and it has 46k miles on it and no sign of going out any time soon....I know how to drive it, though.

....tha's because Cobb flashes(ed....used to anyway) the '03's back to '02 parameters as a base to 'tune from'.

....and the other poster with the clutch issue should understand that the stock clutch is, really, a great clutch and it is usually operator error that kills clutches on AWD cars.
I have, and have had, ~300whp on my stock clutch and it has 46k miles on it and no sign of going out any time soon....I know how to drive it, though.
I'm not so sure about that Subie clutch being a great one. I've had several maunals and NEVER had to replace a clutch EVER! My 84 300ZX Turbo limited edition (200hp stock) was modded to over 300hp and I beat the living hell outta that thing for 30,000 miles and that clutch was still tight when I sold it! I think I gotta bad clutch from the start...it always had a burning smell no matter how you drove it...always just thought it was "new" smell since this was my first brand new manual. I received the car with 180 miles on it because they drove it from another Subaru dealer...I wonder if the guy who drove the car up here was beating the daylights outta the car before it was delivered to the dealer I bought it from? Oh well, we'll see how long the next clutch lasts!

ime, the oem clutch is underrated.

...I wonder if the guy who drove the car up here was beating the daylights outta the car before it was delivered to the dealer I bought it from?

Very likely.

ime, the oem clutch is underrated.

Indeed.

Yup.

Can't even swap it with a clean ecm. It is programmed with the BIU. Car will start, then stall out.

Is this a problem only the 2005 STi's are facing, or are the 2004's saddled with it
too ?

- SB

05' only.

What is the intent with finding out if this is the case?

If you mod your car, you should pay for any problems that causes.
Trying to mod it but not have any evidence of that and then make a warranty claim is fraud, assuming it is something that shouldn't have been covered.

If you're worried about them not covering an unrelated issue (e.g. power window motor dies) then this is the same as it is now, you have to keep them honest and say "my intake kit didn't cause the window to die".

Glenn

If you're worried about them not covering an unrelated issue (e.g. power window motor dies) then this is the same as it is now, you have to keep them honest and say "my intake kit didn't cause the window to die".

This would be the ideal. However, some dealers see a CAI and absolutely refuse to touch any part of the car. This would be the reality.

So what happens if someone steals a STi's ECU? Is the car now scrap?

A great deal of the electrical systems in the 05's are keyed to one another. If you remove the ECU from one STi, it will not work in another as stated. A brand new off the shelf ECU can be keyed to the car however. Each keyed electrical item can only be keyed once from what I have heard, and then it's no good for any other vehicle. It's going to make swapping ECU's for reflashes useless until a way is worked around it, and it's also going to kill part reusability (ie: scrap yards).


Brian

http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/home.jpg (http://www.ravensblade.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/impreza.jpg (http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/imprezamods.jpg (http://www.imprezamods.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/dmw.jpg (http://www.deniedmywarranty.org) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/bratthumb.jpg (http://brat.ravensblade-impreza.com)

/\ /\ /\

Ditto on what Brian said.

I would have hopped back in sooner, but I just got the phone lines hooked up at my new house ( :) ) and have been using works AOL.

Thanks!

Ofcourse im not burning 7grand just to use once or twice. :eek:
I simply want to know the exact machine and process to erase incriminating values.

Ralph :alien:


what i don't get is if you have all these machines and money and an already great car and want to mess with it why in the hell would you want to ever have it back at a dealership, EVER?? best time with my car was when it rolled over warranty because i knew then i wouldn't even think about a dealer anymore
just buy a new whatever breaks, if anything, find a good race shop and be done with it

what i don't get is if you have all these machines....

I said I could get my hands on almost any machine, NOT that I HAVE all these machines.


why in the hell would you want to ever have it back at a dealership, EVER??

Just for my comfort to know.

Ralph

Well here's my post from www.WRXlinks.com explaining everything. Oh and by the way, I'm stopping into the dealer to have a private conversation regarding my mods. Appearantly he was freaking out (in a bad way) about my mods. Gonna try to put out that fire.
"Got the call I dreaded today, bad clutch warranty denied! I said OK how much for the SPT clutch? They tell me $2100 and the tranny will no longer have coverage! I was like "What". I asked to talk to the technician and they said he left for the day. He claims that because I'm so modded there's nothing under warranty. I said "BOV, and K+N filter is heavily modded? (3/16 mod removed and AccessPort uninstalled)" I told them there's no way I burnt the clutch out...I don't drop at 5,000rpm's, I never track it or off road it, and I only street race occassionally. I also stated that this is Subaru's "Mustang !" I mean you market it as your performance model do they expect we're not gonna go hard on it at times. She was pretty cool with me and told me she would see what she could do. Calls me later and tells me that they'll cover it but they will not ever pay for another clutch again and I have to sign something that says that. Good news in the end. I asked them when I dropped it off though that if it was a bad clutch could I pay to upgrade to SPT clutch? Dealer tells me no but call 800-subaru3. I call them and the guy puts me on hold and says "I checked with 3 bosses here and they said yeah but I have to pay the difference and they won't warranty the part for the future". He also tells me he'll open a case for the dealership to do this more smoothly but then dealer still says no. I'm not pushing this issue with the dealer because I'm kinda disappointed about this. I mean never burned up a clutch like that in my 300ZX and I used to beat the hell out of that car! Now I'm gonna have the same crappy clutch in it again! Great! I think this will be my last SUBARU!"


i thought that the dealership had to be able to prove the mods caused the failure. example: i install a BOV and my strut goes bad at 1200 miles. they cant say that the BOV caused my strut to go bad.

doesn't it seem that if you were willing to spend $7000 to erase the data, you wouldn't be worried about a warranty repair - lol

i thought that the dealership had to be able to prove the mods caused the failure. example: i install a BOV and my strut goes bad at 1200 miles. they cant say that the BOV caused my strut to go bad.
True...but they know they got ya by the balls! I mean whatta R U gonna do? Leave the car sit for 3-6 months until you can take them to court. It sucks but if you're gonna mod I guess ya gotta pay tp play. And what really sucks is that my dealer is one of the only Authorized SPT dealers in South Jersey!