Though the title is somewhat awkwardly worded, the point is clear. I have not posted about this yet but I have been very vocal about this in my own social circles. The leaked images of the new impreza design are HORRIBLE. In a time of truely forgettable vehicle design, I beg, no I plead with you, Subaru, not to contribute to this growing tendancy within the Automotive market. The GC8 design was legendary, beautiful, simply functional. It met its time but its silhouette will never be forgotten. The bug eye, from a design stand point had the potential but fell due to its lack of public approval. The new-new age GDB-E though retaining some of the better points of the GDB, there are still some questionable styling points in the front end... still nothing legendary. In all reality you don't need to revolutionize your approach or style in order to create something memorable or even stylish... The best looking cars were soo logically beautiful... and consistant. Please give the GC8 another look, give your current design another look and please realize that you may be straying too far from your lineage.

sherif

http://img35.exs.cx/img35/4375/sideview.jpg
uGH

The idea that any Subaru, new or old, was some kind of beautiful classic design, is a real thigh slapper....just give me 250 hp, all-wheel drive, a decent transmission, good handling and good seats in a lightweight compact 4 door package at a reasonable price and I'll be a happy camper. If the new Impreza looks ok on top of that, it's a bonus.

The statement wasn't that the GC8 wasn't a "beautiful" classic design, but it is classic in the sense of the automotive world... it is the car which changed views, it is the car that wowed the public, much like the old porsches did. Porsche until recently has never been a truely beautiful car, but it lineage has remained intact to preserve the original design. That is all I'm asking Subaru to do.

sherif

Also post here if you want to rant about a video game car that doesn't actually (and probably will never) exist.

The idea that any Subaru, new or old, was some kind of beautiful classic design, is a real thigh slapper....just give me 250 hp, all-wheel drive, a decent transmission, good handling and good seats in a lightweight compact 4 door package at a reasonable price and I'll be a happy camper. If the new Impreza looks ok on top of that, it's a bonus.

Here here!!! I did not buy my bug-eyed WRX because of its looks but what it could do. It eventually grew on me of course and as they said in the first test drives....when you are driving it, you don't see the exterior of the car.

We can't stay with the GC8 look forever. But I must say the new "Alfa" has some raw-ness that is not that bad.

Here here!!! I did not buy my bug-eyed WRX because of its looks but what it could do.

Agreed. That's why I bought the wagon version. BTW, it's "hear, hear." :)

I will stay with my GC8 look forever. :)
[Imagestation, and photobucket suck]

Agreed. That's why I bought the wagon version. BTW, it's "hear, hear." :)


My bad french!! :lol:

that roofscoop sure does look nice!

Jon - I've seen various pictures from publications, posts and otherwise hinting at this design. Look at the previous images before the bug-eye came out, they were fairly indicative of what was to come. Additionally look at the spy pictures of the 7-seater. It seems to be adopting the split headlight and bulbous design that the images of the future impreza have, so I don't think I'm too far off base here.

sherif

Jon - I've seen various pictures from publications, posts and otherwise hinting at this design. Look at the previous images before the bug-eye came out, they were fairly indicative of what was to come. Additionally look at the spy pictures of the 7-seater. It seems to be adopting the split headlight and bulbous design that the images of the future impreza have, so I don't think I'm too far off base here.

sherifWhy not get worked up about this equally imaginary car which appears in the same video game.
http://jon.in.ct.home.att.net/B11S-WRC3.jpg

The GC8 can not really be considered a "beautiful" car. Look at it:

http://www.theautochannel.com/media/photos/subaru/1998/98_subaru_impreza_l_sedan.jpg

It's pretty much a normal, boring (yet not ugly) economy car.

Of course, gussy it up with spoilers, scoops, big wheels and skirts, and you have a killer looking car:

http://www.jwtodd.com/mwcscc-ax/photos/20010624227.JPG

But, this can be said about any car...add enough tasteful "add-ons" to it and it'll look cool. But the core design is just boring.

I guess that's why they tried so hard with the GDB, to make a truly unique and different car. Too bad it came out ugly.

I'm still a fan of the GC8 and hope they make another simple, yet aggressive looking Impreza in the future.

can critique a design that has not shown its face yet is beyond me.... :rolleyes:

Okay, so you seen drawings and concept cars. Big deal! That's not what the new Impreza will look like. It may be "similar," or have "styling cues" from what you've seen, but believe me, there's a HUGE difference between drawings and concept mockups, and the actual production vehicle.

Bob

can critique a design that has not shown its face yet is beyond me.... :rolleyes:

Okay, so you seen drawings and concept cars. Big deal! That's not what the new Impreza will look like. It may be "similar," or have "styling cues" from what you've seen, but believe me, there's a HUGE difference between drawings and concept mockups, and the actual production vehicle.

Bob

Amen.

besides .... i love the concept shown on the first post ! :)

this looks awesome:
http://img35.exs.cx/img35/9590/finaldrawing.jpg

rsholland - its a commentary on their design direction. If people had read my statements carefully rather than just immediatly post I stated that Subaru needs to look at their history in the GC8 and look at their design direction (ie; current concept designs) and I quote (myself), "please realize that you may be straying too far from your lineage."

sherif

I love my GC as much as the next guy, but honestly, the new cars are better-looking in a lot of respects.

And you know what? The '06+ cars will be better than THOSE. Everyone whines about new designs when they're in the works... People don't like change, it's in our nature.

But it "grows on" you. You adapt and realize that, eventually.

I don't think there was a single "logically beautiful" thing about the GC. It's a car that evolved from a cost-cutting family sedan, not a car that was designed from the ground up, to be what it became. Scoops and things had to be added for functionality and appearance, but.......... the Impreza wasn't initially intended to be a performance car.

Now, though, it is. So I say start from scratch! Hopefully this new WRC mumbo-jumbo won't kill the boxer engine entirely, but I'd like to see the loss of the strut suspension at the very least. And maybe, just maybe, some actually decent seats.

=S2=

I think starting over is a mistake... the Impreza has a lack of styling definition and thats part of its problem. The Legacy and Forester both have long standing evolving designs and that is part of the draw to them, but the impreza especially with the whole bug-eye debacle, is starting to lose its identity. To pursue this design concept would to stray farther away from any sort of identitiy the line had to begin with.

sherif

rsholland - its a commentary on their design direction. If people had read my statements carefully rather than just immediatly post I stated that Subaru needs to look at their history in the GC8 and look at their design direction (ie; current concept designs) and I quote (myself), "please realize that you may be straying too far from your lineage."

sherif

Okay, be my guest. I can buy that, even if it's an exercise in futility. I mean what do you expect the outcome of all your "venting" to be? Do you honestly expect Subaru to return to an old dated design? Give me a break...

Bob

rsholland - Subaru over the last few years has turned to the community as a source of feedback on its design and direction. The Legacy is an excellent example of their efforts in this. The purpose of my venting is to get my opinion out there and to rally the people that support my viewpoint. Do I expect to exact an immediate and obvious change in Subaru's design direction, no, but maybe I will confirm some opinions/views within those within the company that read this.

sherif

I think starting over is a mistake... the Impreza has a lack of styling definition and thats part of its problem. The Legacy and Forester both have long standing evolving designs and that is part of the draw to them, but the impreza especially with the whole bug-eye debacle, is starting to lose its identity. To pursue this design concept would to stray farther away from any sort of identitiy the line had to begin with.

sherif

What identity? You can take any Subaru and swap grille logos with Kia, Hyundai, and a few others, and the front end current styling would work equally well for those brands too.

Bob

... give your current design another look and please realize that you may be straying too far from your lineage.
This is Subaru's heritage:
http://jon.in.ct.home.att.net/360_Pickup.jpg

Jon - you are an intelligent person, and I know this from discussions with you and from your informative posts. I thereby can assume that you can draw certain lines of logic btwn what I'm saying and what I mean. I'm sure you can understand when I suggest that subaru is straying too far from its lineage, I'm suggesting within the Impreza line. Why you insist on berate the subject with such posts as the one above, I guess I just don't understand, but it seems quite unlike you.

sherif

rsholland - Subaru over the last few years has turned to the community as a source of feedback on its design and direction. The Legacy is an excellent example of their efforts in this. The purpose of my venting is to get my opinion out there and to rally the people that support my viewpoint. Do I expect to exact an immediate and obvious change in Subaru's design direction, no, but maybe I will confirm some opinions/views within those within the company that read this.

sherif

Guess what? The Legacy will eventually wear this new look too.

Bob

The Legacy and Forester both have long standing evolving designs and that is part of the draw to them,
sherif

How long standing can these design evolutions be when the Legacy came out in 1990 and the Forester came out in 1998? Hell, there wasn't even an Impreza until 1993.

While I agree that they should have kept working with the GC styling cues (beyond foglights and hoodscoop) I think its kind of silly that you would suggest that people are drawn to Subaru for some kind of styling heritage. People buy Subaru because they want a well engineered, AWD, affordable, fun car. All 4 Subaru's Ive owned have fit that description and I doubt that Subaru is going to ditch that heritage any time soon.

I can honestly say I like the way Subarus look. Compared to everything else within their respective price range, I don't like almost anything else.

sherif

Complain all you want, but this new (family) look is locked in.

http://www.drive.subaru.com/Sum03_B11S.htm

and...

http://www.drive.subaru.com/Win04_DesignRevolution.htm

Bob

Yes, I shall complain all I want... that is my right... what I don't understand why there is such a backlash against my desire to do so. I have logic behind my statements, I have a valid opinion. There have been plenty of thread about the new design with plenty of posters who support the design direction. I figured it was time for one which showed the other side of the coin.

sherif

Yes, I shall complain all I want... that is my right... what I don't understand why there is such a backlash against my desire to do so. I have logic behind my statements, I have a valid opinion. There have been plenty of thread about the new design with plenty of posters who support the design direction. I figured it was time for one which showed the other side of the coin.

sherif

Nobody's criticizing your logic, or your right to complain. What I'm saying is your comments are going to be as effective as a fart in a hurricane. It's a usless exercise, but continue if you must...

The fact of the matter is you're not alone. Most people here don't like the new design. Most people also don't like change of any sort. That doesn't mean it's not needed.

Bob

You just said yourself.. you don't like anything else. So you're not really being reasonable.. you're just being a hater. Go ahead and vent, but there are plenty of people who've taken a moment to appreciate something other than 10 year old Subarus and can appreciate that the Ex-Alpha designer just might have some real skill.

Just because Subarus have always been homely doesn't mean you need to get upset because some designer wants to make them beautiful.

sherif!

i think you came along a bit late in the game. people have been complaining about the proposed/rumored/whatever "new look" for quite some time in here. some people are probably just tired of hearing it.

personally, i think the new look has potential, if done in the correct proportions with the rest of the vehicle. but i think the classy but generic look of the new legacy would be more widely accepted. im sure we will see for sure in january when the new suv is shown in detroit.

/me pm's sherif a beer

lol, make them beautiful. no sir, they're not beautiful. a beautiful vehicle is an Aston Martin DB9 or the AMV8 concept. A Ferrari 206 SP is a beautiful car. An old Austin Healy is a beautiful car. The Alfa influenced subaru... hell even the modern alfas, are not beautiful cars.


sherif

/me pm's sherif a beer

haha Mark! You should rally the troops and come here and visit. I have a six pack of Stella in the fridge waiting.

sherif

a few years (if not sooner) after these new-look Subie hit the roads, most of the complainers here will have had a change of heart.

Bob

I doubt very much a group of enthusiasts can have much effect on car design. Look at BMW---the new cars have been met with hostility by most enthusiasts and the press, but that doesn't keep BMW from churning them out. I do think we can have, and have had, some impact with regard to the matters that really count--performance engineering. We finally got the WRX, and likely had some small influence on the U.S. STI and new Legacy. I'm just happy to be driving a small turbocharged AWD hot rod at a reasonable price.......

a few years (if not sooner) after these new-look Subie hit the roads, most of the complainers here will have had a change of heart.

Bob
Agreed, but I don't think that makes for good design. That was part of my original statement. We live in a time of disposable designs. A company designs something that doesn't sit right with the general public but as usual the public eventually says okay, that looks okay, "its grown on me." I don't think this is an acceptable mode of action in terms of design... *shrug*

sherif

So, you're saying that design shouldn't make an impact? The less people need to take notice, the better?

I think we he originally said beautiful, he meant in an it's not butt fugly. I hate the new era look of cars in general. they are getting uglier and uglier. Now subaru seems to be falling for it, at least in prototype drawings.
wonder what they are going to do if the new WRC super 2000 thing is passed. make another car or completely change the impreza.
take it easy, Micah

lol, make them beautiful. no sir, they're not beautiful. a beautiful vehicle is an Aston Martin DB9 or the AMV8 concept. A Ferrari 206 SP is a beautiful car. An old Austin Healy is a beautiful car. The Alfa influenced subaru... hell even the modern alfas, are not beautiful cars.


sherif


It's all subjective. For example, I wholeheartedly agree on the DB9, but I think Austins were pretty ugly. Nothing particularly special about the styling, even though the open-top thing was of course a novelty.

Agreed, but I don't think that makes for good design. That was part of my original statement. We live in a time of disposable designs. A company designs something that doesn't sit right with the general public but as usual the public eventually says okay, that looks okay, "its grown on me." I don't think this is an acceptable mode of action in terms of design... *shrug*

sherif

What makes you think the new Subaru look is "disposible" design? FHI has spent the last two years preparing the public for this new look. I hardly think they would put that time and effort into something that's this important, if they they were going to toss it for something else in a few years.

Bob

Bob--well, Subaru probably spent a few years designing the bug-eyed Impreza too, and ditched it after a couple of years....I do agree, however, that it looks like the new Subaru look may pervade the entire Subaru line--if so, I think they are looking long term here....

i don't hate it but it's worse than the current

Bob--well, Subaru probably spent a few years designing the bug-eyed Impreza too, and ditched it after a couple of years....I do agree, however, that it looks like the new Subaru look may pervade the entire Subaru line--if so, I think they are looking long term here....

The bugeye WRX was one model, and it didn't reflect a sweeping change in corporate design philosophy, as this new look does. What FHI is now doing laying the groundwork for design for the next 20 years and beyond.

Bob

I just hope every one of Subaru's models doesn't have the same front-end, it seems to be a trend lately, with Mitsubishi and Nissan(just 2 examples) i.e. the Lancer and gallant and endevor all have very similar(too similar, imo) front end styling, I don't want my Impreza to look like a small Legacy or my Legacy to look like a large Impreza. Basically I hope they don't slap the new grill on every model and call it a day.

I still find it fugly.

Oh well. Plenty of other good looking cars available out there, some actually w/ better qualities besides looks. Try some different brands, play the field, variety is the spice of life. It's not a marriage/civil union.

Then again, there's a lot to be said for all of the great qualities Subarus have beneath the sheetmetal.

So, you're saying that design shouldn't make an impact? The less people need to take notice, the better?

What makes you think the new Subaru look is "disposible" design? FHI has spent the last two years preparing the public for this new look. I hardly think they would put that time and effort into something that's this important, if they they were going to toss it for something else in a few years.

Bob


I think the quotation below serves to answer your questions to some degree. A truely good loking car lends itself to a truely universal following. I'm not expecting a Subaru to create something as beautiful as the Ferrari 206SP or otherwise, but I do expect them to keep up with what made them soo for their time. What makes such cars as the 911 timeless, are the hips (from the rear view), the head lamp orientation, the roofline etc etc. The Ferrari's are known for they're sultry and woman like curves. Aston Martins have always been the perfect example of English reserve yet truely evocative design. These are the type of items that make a good looking car and also define a lineage. Look at the new DB9/AMV8... I assure this designs will continue to wow and amaze people for years, and these cars make an impact.

Rectangular based headlamps, large round fog lights, the inward angled grill, the angry mouth, the flared fenders, hoodscoops, the roofline, the A and C pillar lines, the red and white tail-lights, the subtle humps on the rear section. These are the things which are categorically Subaru. What I see in the alfa design is a loss of such things. *shrug*

sherif

Bob--well, Subaru probably spent a few years designing the bug-eyed Impreza too, and ditched it after a couple of years....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/mt88/evosti.jpg

let me go on record saying I hate the new Evo X styling. I deem it just as disposable. It screems plastic japanese toy. The Evo V and VI were the pinacle of Evo design.

sherif

Looks like (the EVO X) a 4 door Celica GT or something. And, if you notice, Mitsubishi's EVO always tried to mimic the Impreza on it's design...Huge foglights on front bumper, big spoiler on the rear deck lid etc etc...

~Anthony.

ididintreadanyofthestuffpostedh sohereismyhalfinformedpost.... I like the old stuff. :)

i don't hate it but it's worse than the current

That's crazy, I don't particularly like it but it's better than the current.
- 2005 owner.

I still find it fugly.

Ok, this is weird. Why do all 2005 owners seems to think the new impreza is ugly?

I agree with the one guy who posted that the focus should be on mechanicals (turbo, boxer 4, 230-250hp, awd, etc. fun-mobile) -- if the car is styled attractively (again, that's subjective to each and every one of us), that's great. Personally, the "spy shots" seem fairly cool overall--it's better to evoke some kind of response, positive or negative, versus something that leaves you feeling blah about it (case in point, that new Ford sedan, Ford 500).

I work for a supplier to DCX here in Auburn Hills, MI, and the guys in Design Office have a formidable task to come up with styling that "looks good" or "fits" the vehicle in question. It isn't easy.

Lastly, WRITE to Subaru America and let them know what you like or don't like. Don't sit back and "hope" they get it right -- tell them what you want and that's the best market research they can get.

I've constantly written to Soob America to tell them my $0.02 worth.

Later,
Jason

I think we he originally said beautiful, he meant in an it's not butt fugly. I hate the new era look of cars in general. they are getting uglier and uglier. Now subaru seems to be falling for it, at least in prototype drawings.

I agree, it all started going downhill at about year 2000 or so, it's like designers are making wierd and radical designs just for the sake of being different. To me, the best looking cars were around 1990-2000.

i think all you guys are too sensitive :P .

id rather have the new EVO. it looks way better than the new impreza. i too wish they would go back to the GC8 or just the way it looks now is really nice.

It's ugly.. but less ugly than it is now.. Couldn't they have just made a mini-legacy? :p

It's ugly.. but less ugly than it is now.. Couldn't they have just made a mini-legacy? :p

Exactly! It would be a like BMW 3-series or Audi A4. Who says smaller cars need to look all freaky?

Sherif- It's a waste of time trying to reason with Bob. He is unable to accept the opinions of others and cannot disagree with anyone without being extremely rude and pompous.


rsholland - Subaru over the last few years has turned to the community as a source of feedback on its design and direction. The Legacy is an excellent example of their efforts in this. The purpose of my venting is to get my opinion out there and to rally the people that support my viewpoint. Do I expect to exact an immediate and obvious change in Subaru's design direction, no, but maybe I will confirm some opinions/views within those within the company that read this.

sherif

i hate the new sti and evo looks. there are pictures of the evo 9 in the members gallery thread. i like that one.

Best quote on this thread:
Just because Subarus have always been homely doesn't mean you need to get upset because some designer wants to make them beautiful.


Alright, this is getting out of hand.

Bob doesn't need any saving, but come on now, he's just being a realist. He's right, the new design direction is here to stay, so you may want to get used to it. Going back now and saying, that you were talking about the new design direction and not the Impreza in particular doesn't make any sense...LOOK AT WHAT YOU NAMED THE THREAD! Oh yeah, he probably knows more about styling than just about anyone on this board.

Just my $.02

mo

pssh, like emergency redesigns have NOT happened..

It's easier to re-tool before you've tooled up at all :)

Sherif- It's a waste of time trying to reason with Bob. He is unable to accept the opinions of others and cannot disagree with anyone without being extremely rude and pompous.

There's a whole lot I could to say in reponse to that, but won't. What I will say is this: I've spent well over 30 years in design and marketing. I know what I'm talking about. Subaru is doing the right thing in terms of developing a new distinctive family face, which they need to have if they intend to become a premium nameplate.

You can disagree with that "corporate" decision all you want, but that's the situation at hand. It will no longer be business as usual with Subaru.

Bob

I by no means think rsholland is being pompus or rude, though I do think he is not per se indulging the subject matter. Rather than discussing or countering my opinion he is taking a more direct, "well its already set in stone anyways, so whats the point of this," position. I can't really disagree with this logic... but I can still express my feelings on a particular choice by a company whose products I buy. Honestly, if subaru does pursue this alfa-esq look, I don't know how much longer they're going to keep me as a customer. As nice as awd can be, its not the end all be all, the continual use of strut-style suspension all around is also growing old as another member mentioned before. *shrug* we'll see, I'm not against moving forward, I'm against adopting ludicris design concepts.

sherif

i don't even care what the impreza looks like anymore(but i agree it looks like crap), just if the legacy will have a sti engine/tranny soon...i have a gc6 and love the looks but it is clearly dated, the bug eye age was disgusting-edm/jdm headlights helped immensly though. The current gen doesn't look bad but compare the legacy aside the current STi with some form of aero pieces/body kit/wheels, aesthetically the legacy is a big winner.

i mean damn!
http://www.ings-net.com/products/legacy/index.html

A truely good loking car lends itself to a truely universal following. I'm not expecting a Subaru to create something as beautiful as the Ferrari 206SP or otherwise, but I do expect them to keep up with what made them soo for their time. What makes such cars as the 911 timeless, are the hips (from the rear view), the head lamp orientation, the roofline etc etc. The Ferrari's are known for they're sultry and woman like curves. Aston Martins have always been the perfect example of English reserve yet truely evocative design. These are the type of items that make a good looking car and also define a lineage. Look at the new DB9/AMV8... I assure this designs will continue to wow and amaze people for years, and these cars make an impact. You're comparing sexy swoopy sportscars to a $16k economy car... it's just not fair. The godfather of small light AWD Turbo cars was an italian. The Lancia Delta Integrale is one of the ugliest cars ever built, but is still sought after by enthusiasts. I welcome an italian designer to try to inject some of that character and charm into Subaru's styling. The current car can easily be confused with a Hyundai Elantra when not adorned with hoodscoops and wings.. and that's a look even Kia has been able to replicate without any real effort:
http://carsguide.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,3600,268362,00.jpg

Rectangular based headlamps, large round fog lights, the inward angled grill, the angry mouth, the flared fenders, hoodscoops, the roofline, the A and C pillar lines, the red and white tail-lights, the subtle humps on the rear section. These are the things which are categorically Subaru. What I see in the alfa design is a loss of such things. *shrug*

sherif
I know, the old Impreza looked soooo good. But times are changing. Nobody else is selling cars with a similar look. The higher hood comes about to increase pedestrian impact safety, the passenger cell takes on a new shape to increase roominess and strength. No matter what, we won't see any carmakers going back to their old designs.. because they need to keep up with the new design directions in order to move forward. Subaru needs some brand identity if they're going to continue to carve out their niche, so they hired a designer who knows how to style within a brand.

I don't see the flares on the oldschool impreza. if you line up with the side, the fender line goes straight back. The only one to change this was the 22b. I love flared fenders, Give me a 22b or Audi Quattro with flared fenders or (IIRC) the original M3 (mid 80's, big flares?).

Anyway, the only 'heritage' the impreza line has had for the styling is 'plain', pure and simple. An excellent base for more dramatic specialty lines, such as the 22b, but the main impreza line is 'plain'. The hood scoop was added on, the RS wing was added on, the big fogs (IIRC) were added on.

If Subaru actually did introduce the styling of the game car, I might have to do a front end conversion.

Tom

Car & Driver on page 37 of the November 2004 issue shows that car again. My big design beef with it is the headlights. They seem stacked upon each other and don't look right. The fender flares look off also. I'll reserve judgement for an actual car, but it looks more and more like I'll be heading towards the Legacy GT.

I'm not crazy about the new proposed grill. But, then again, I did not like the GC cars, or the Bug Eyes. I do like the 04 and 05 cars.

Oh well, I have an 04. I'm happy with that.

Zach

that evo looks like a celica, srt-4 and something else got spliced.
The new design of the STI, at least in those drawings, IMO looks bad. But, we will have to wait till 07 for it, right?

I like the look of subaru's design, as well I like the look of a bug eyed sprite, but I don't think my tastes count for anything cause I like to eat chocolate on lightly toasted bread.

I'm gonna buy one if they look like that!

I like it, It looks great.

I don't mind the bugeye design so much, the JDM version looks way better and was probably accepted in Japan. Also, I recall a "Drive" interview with the designer, and at the time (this was 2001), he said that they start the design process when the current model is released, and they look at benchmark vehicles and trends. They clearly identified round , 3 dimensional headlights as a key design trend, probably back in 1999, and frankly, I think they were spot-on, just look at the Hyundais, the Mini, the Benz models, even the G35, all working with a 3-D round or oval shaped theme. Unfort., it just didn't execute very well.

sherifx: I don't agree with you but you do have every right to vent about your dislike for the new Impreza designs all you want.

Personally, I will wait until more concrete information is available before making a final judgement. I can't say I hate the look of some of these artist's impressions or video game renders but I cannot say I think they are perfect either. The Alfa-esque nose does have some interesting lines and if there is some functionality behind that then all the better. When I bought my 2004 2.5RS I did some reading, listened to the dealer and found that a lot of the changes were for aerodynamic reasons as well as aesthetic and if true, kudos to Subaru for designing a car that IMO looks very good and is more invisible to the air when moving.

It's hard to give cars an identity of their own these days but at least Subaru is trying and from what I see, listening to their customers.

the essentials to be an impreza...
scoop
tear shape or gc shape headlights
gc fog light complexes
taking any of these out, impreza is not an impreza...

gumball - I agree, the bug-eye though not widely accepted was a somewhat logical design evolution.

What I don't understand is all the n00bs chiming in here. The topic isn't for you to come in and just make a statement like, "I like it, It looks great." Isn't the topic self explanatory enough? I'm only interested in either people who can engage me in some sort of point v. point conversation or people who will agree with the point I've made in the topic.

PLEASE DON'T POST HERE IF YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO INCREASE YOUR POST COUNT OR HAVE NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO CONTRIBUTE

sherif

what I wanted to say also was that even though the bug-eye was a somewhat logical design evolution, Subaru should have learned that Impreza owners are fickle, they don't like gross design changes over night. Even if Subaru wants to change their look and evolve, they shouldn't start the evolution by borrowing design cues from other manufacturers... how pathetic.

sherif

Hey, I have a GC, a GM, a GF, a SG, and a BC.

I win.


Oh, and I'm closing on my house in 2 hours.


PS. I could care less about how it looks, as long as it has Six stars on the badge I'll love it regardless.

That is so very lame... my opinion of you just turned 180 degrees.

It's still a good thread though, good luck to you.



What I don't understand is all the n00bs chiming in here. The topic isn't for you to come in and just make a statement like, "I like it, It looks great." Isn't the topic self explanatory enough? I'm only interested in either people who can engage me in some sort of point v. point conversation or people who will agree with the point I've made in the topic.

PLEASE DON'T POST HERE IF YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO INCREASE YOUR POST COUNT OR HAVE NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO CONTRIBUTE

sherif

Here's a simple solution that kills two birds with one stone. Subaru should drop the name Impreza for the new model and name it something else. Then purists who're concerned with the "Integrity" of the Impreza will be happy because it will be preserved, forever unblemished, in the GC and GD models. And Subaru could finally rid itself of an embarassingly lame model name. <Seinfeld>Or the "Impreza." Yeah? Well, I hope it's not a "lemona"...or you'll be hearing from my "lawya."</Seinfeld>

sherif,

If you want people to make "point v. point conversation," then you'll have to accept the fact that others will like the car.

Otherwise, there's no argument. You're talking to yourself. Which can be fun at times, but usually is just embarrassing. :D

That is so very lame... my opinion of you just turned 180 degrees.

It's still a good thread though, good luck to you.
Why? What is the point of contributing/posting, if you're not going to post anything worthwile to the discussion? I understand if you were a bit miffed at the n00b comment, but understand n00bness isn't a function of member number (though sometimes it can be), its a function of attitude. If come in to a thread and post something that neither contributes or advances the discussion at hand, then what was the point of your post. There have been plenty of chime in here if you like the potential future design threads... this is not one of them, so why post that you think it looks "sweet dude?"

sherif,

If you want people to make "point v. point conversation," then you'll have to accept the fact that others will like the car.

Otherwise, there's no argument. You're talking to yourself. Which can be fun at times, but usually is just embarrassing. :D
lol yes, expand on your opinion though...

I like it, It looks great.

this is the type of post I'm talking about though...

']Why not get worked up about this equally imaginary car which appears in the same video game.
http://jon.in.ct.home.att.net/B11S-WRC3.jpg

How is that imaginary? It looks like the B11S concept car; I've seen photos of one being driven.

I'd vote for the SVX as best-looking Subie so far.

My 84 Subie looked something like this:

http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/Subaru/1980s/PiCs37/1984wagon.jpg




But anyway who buys a Subie for its looks? :confused:

lol yes, expand on your opinion though...



My original one?

Well I guess I could do that...


I mostly like the new design, but the front appears to be somewhat of a 350Z with a damaged bumper. The inverted Alfa grille looks somewhat out of place with the lines on the side of the car.

But.... :)

Subarus typically have a sharp contrast between the front/rear and the side views. Flat sides, sculpted ends. Being that these are also just concept drawings, we don't know how the production car will play out. I think it will integrate a lot better. Right now, there's some kind of SVX-like appearance to the car, though I'm not sure how to explain why I see that. Maybe it's just that these concept drawings make the car look more like a "four door coupe," than a sedan like the current model.


How's that?

I won't say that I hate it. Maybe that's what you wanted with this thread--just to see replies from the anti-design folk--but c'mon, you know better. We all do. We've all screwed up, posting threads that got attention we didn't expect, nor want. But if all you look for is the enforcing of your own opinion, I don't think you're really getting "the big picture."

I'd rather be a little ticked that I wasn't part of the collective opinion, than never have any differences. I mean, where would the fun be? Car design would REALLY be monotonous!

=S2=

Because there are two sides to every story including this one. Seriously if you want a thread of like minded people posting about what they hate about the new car then fine I'm not saying you can't. But don't slam people that come in with a different perspective even if it is just "I like it" especially not four pages into the thread when it appears that there are more people that don't agree with you than those that do.

As for the n00b thing I don't care about that but within the boundaries of this board's rules I and everyone else has the right to post to a thread even if the thread starter doesn't think their post(s) are helpful. I don't think my post was particularly insightful or wise but I'd like to think that the point about function affecting design is valid in defense of the new Impreze designs.

I just don't understand why you'd want to eliminate the possibility of someone mentioning something that makes you reconsider your stance. To me that's discussion.

That said I'll still watch this thread with interest.

Why? What is the point of contributing/posting, if you're not going to post anything worthwile to the discussion? I understand if you were a bit miffed at the n00b comment, but understand n00bness isn't a function of member number (though sometimes it can be), its a function of attitude. If come in to a thread and post something that neither contributes or advances the discussion at hand, then what was the point of your post. There have been plenty of chime in here if you like the potential future design threads... this is not one of them, so why post that you think it looks "sweet dude?"

I won't say that I hate it. Maybe that's what you wanted with this thread--just to see replies from the anti-design folk--but c'mon, you know better.

I like your analysis though I have to at least address this point. I don't mean that I want a completely one sided discussion, but again as I stated, I just don't want the pointless single sentance posts that don't contribute anything to the discussion.

I just don't understand why you'd want to eliminate the possibility of someone mentioning something that makes you reconsider your stance.

I've now dedicated three posts to this and this will be my last... You guys misunderstand me... I started this thread with the intent to make a statement that I dislike the design styling, but if you have watched my discussions, I have been indulging and welcoming people to challenge my view point. What I don't appreciate are the people who put a lil' one like statement of like or dislike without engaging the discussion at hand. Their posts are wortheless and don't engage EITHER side of the discussion at all. I welcome people to challenge my views on this either in support or against my views. Again, I just find the lil, "but dude it looks cool," or "dude it looks ugly," or "dude, it just has to drive" comments useless without further analysis or expansion of individual's view points. I hope this clarify's what I've been trying to state in my last three posts.

sherif

Subarus typically have a sharp contrast between the front/rear and the side views. Flat sides, sculpted ends. Being that these are also just concept drawings, we don't know how the production car will play out. I think it will integrate a lot better. Right now, there's some kind of SVX-like appearance to the car, though I'm not sure how to explain why I see that. Maybe it's just that these concept drawings make the car look more like a "four door coupe," than a sedan like the current model.

To Address this. I think this is part of the problem... The great thing about the 22B was its functional design and its three-dimensional-ness. The flat side, sculpted ends design styling is part of what makes a car disposable to me. Look at the new Lancer Evo... its front is great, the sides are plainer than an Accord and its rear is something that truely lacks verv. Overall, what makes the car stand out is its aggressive mouth and big wing... not good design imho. The Impreza is the same... the only thing that seems to break up the lines on the side are the ugly door handles and subtle fender flares... but this does nothing to make the car a good looking car.

Now look at the design concept... The bulbous fender flare/flared arches, the overly angular front end with the fairly soft rear... the silly wing... These items do not lend itself to a memorable or even tasteful design. The stacked headlamps seem to only worsen the problem. Its like the car is stuck in triangle world but trying to mate with somebody from circle world... it seems confused at best.

sherif

I for one am in the middle road when it comes to the new design.

I like the fact that subaru is trying to distinguish itself from the hyndai's and the kia's that normally come out of japan. I like that they are trying to make a bold move. HOWEVER ripping off alpha is not the way I want subaru to be rememberd in the next decade, because you KNOW that both the media, and consumers alike are going to harp on that fact.

For as often as I get asked now if my wagon is an STi, I can't imagine when these come out how sick I am gonna be when I will get comments on how nice it is that Alpha is back in the game.

The shots we're all taking as the "truth" are all out of a video game, however, they are based of the b11, b9 and other subaru concepts, probably to try to get a feel on how well they will be accepted. I don't mind the latest unrallified version, I want to touch and feel a prototype, the impreza has never been a photogenic car for the most part. I need to see it in person.

That being said, if subaru could produce the B9 concept in the states, with the EJ20T and make it availible in 07, when I should have the wrx paid off, it would be my next car.

gumball - I agree, the bug-eye though not widely accepted was a somewhat logical design evolution.

What I don't understand is all the n00bs chiming in here. The topic isn't for you to come in and just make a statement like, "I like it, It looks great." Isn't the topic self explanatory enough?

yes, I am sorry I said that I liked the looks of the new subaru when the topic says "Please post HERE if you hate the next-gen Impreza design" I posted here when I did like it, and not when I didn't.

I'm only interested in either people who can engage me in some sort of point v. point conversation or people who will agree with the point I've made in the topic.

then you should have said as much, it is pretty clear that you say: post here if you hate it, but no where does it say, hey, lets engage in a thoughtful conversation about it. I felt, that rather than creating another thread saying "Please post HERE if you love the next-gen Impreza design" would be rather silly, especially when we do not know what it will look like, other than perhaps having some ideas that the grill will have a similar design to what we have seen on subaru concepts of late.


PLEASE DON'T POST HERE IF YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO INCREASE YOUR POST COUNT OR HAVE NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO CONTRIBUTE

sherif

well, actually, from what your title asks (broken record) you pretty much want people that hate it to increase their post count, and not really have anything positive to contribute.

maybe you should have been more specific in your opening post regarding the subject, hey, agree, or disagree, but IN EITHER CASE give some reasoning as to why.

well, if you want some information that conforms to what you have said in this post, I'm more than happy to say:

I like the new design, it is a bit over the top, but with all concept vehicles, it will be toned down severely when the first models hit the showroom floor. at this point anything impreza new design is pure speculation, so I'll hit on the major design points of the picture you have shown, which looks like a very poor photoshop of a different model.

can we count on stacked headlights for the impreza? maybe, maybe not, it is the only thing out of this photo I really don't like, reminds me of the estate wagon from national lampoons vacation too much, but I don't think they are going to slap those lights on anything with a subaru badge, take a look at the B9SC concept, those headlights are beautiful. I think that with the new Leg. it is pretty apparent that while they are moving towards the newer design, they haven't done a thing to push the headlights taller, so to me, I don't think it is anything to worry about. however, I do think that something like the current impreza model could end up on the next gen.

can we count of a tripple thingy grill for the impreza? of course, this seems to be the major design trait throughout all subaru concepts, will it be as gaudy? probably not, but it will be there in some shape or form, perhaps they will integrate it more into the hood, but I hope that doesn't mean a relinquishment of the hoodscoop, since I believe as others do that the scoop is part of the impreza heritage (not subaru heritage, but the line itself). with a scoop in mind it is hard to see how they are going to make a tall enough grill area to encompass the full tripple grill effect, it will probably be something understated, while still defining it as a subaru with the new grill structure.

fender flairs, this is not something I see on this particular example, but it is pretty common on others to see more flowing flairs, they are relatively new to the impreza, and I think the curve help the rest of the lines.

the rest, honestly, it is hard to explain what works and doesn't on a large scale, and it will be different for each person, as long as it all flows together well, and doesn't have things that just stick out in an otherwise smooth car, it will be fine.

I think about the Z4 when I think about flowing lines, if you look at just one part it looks horid, but the whole thing together in person looks like a very well thought out, and just briliant piece of design. but that is the artist in me I guess.

I still like chocolate on toasted bread though.

edit: sorry I was considering the picture that don [ct] linked up. and to a smaller extent the one you posted up.

Agreed, trying to distinguish itself from the other Japanese/Korean car makes, which seem to look more similar by the day, is admiral, but their choice of styling is disgusting.

Look at the Tribeca:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/8388_image.jpg
http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/8389_image.jpg
My problems start with the front. Obviously they're trying to hide the grill, which looks like it will mimic the design the B11S and B9 have always sported. Also, the headlamps look like the ones suggested in the concepts. They look out of place, angular in a rounded, curved design. The sides still look plain while the front and rear try to make a statement... And what a statement the rear makes. Obviously borrowed from the R2 city car, the rear reminds me of the asses of fat midwestern women. Bulbous, sinched in at the waist, and overflowing above it. Not attractive at all.

sherif

Fair enough. No harm, no foul.


I've now dedicated three posts to this and this will be my last... You guys misunderstand me... I started this thread with the intent to make a statement that I dislike the design styling, but if you have watched my discussions, I have been indulging and welcoming people to challenge my view point. What I don't appreciate are the people who put a lil' one like statement of like or dislike without engaging the discussion at hand. Their posts are wortheless and don't engage EITHER side of the discussion at all. I welcome people to challenge my views on this either in support or against my views. Again, I just find the lil, "but dude it looks cool," or "dude it looks ugly," or "dude, it just has to drive" comments useless without further analysis or expansion of individual's view points. I hope this clarify's what I've been trying to state in my last three posts.

sherif

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/8388_image.jpg


actually, looking at it, I think the headlights fit into the fenders, triangular a bit, but not so much as other cars (350z). it looks like on the bumper line that there are fog lights in there. right under the headlights.

it looks like there are probably pillars going to be in the grill to give the effect of a tripple grill more than anything.

there is no real way that they can bring this design into a car though, at least not as tall, maybe they will split the bumper beam, but that is a piece that has to be there by law. and typically, about 5-6" worth of front end before the hood starts on a car. it will be much less pronounced.

it looks like on the bumper line that there are fog lights in there. right under the headlights.

Yes, I also noticed that and tried to make a chop, but they looked out of place. They seem to be round foglights. Only time will tell ;)

Whatever happened to subtle, minor changes over years?

Instead of trying to modify the entire thing, just smooth it out over the years..

I don't like how every two years we get a different car..why not just stick with one design that most people like, and see what you can do with it?

I still like chocolate on toasted bread though.



Never tried that. What's funny is that chocolate syrup isn't so bad on baked chicken.

Funny what condiments you'll try, when you're out of everything else. :D :D



sherifx,
I suppose I don't disagree with your last reply to my comment(s). But I will say that sometimes you have to pay for what you get. There aren't a whole lot of "truly beautiful" cars south of the exotic price range. Just like anything else, you don't get somethin' for nothin.'

The rest have to do the best with what they've got. If you're going to base a performance car off a commuter car, and still sell versions of both, well.... there are parameters. Bean counters might be slandered by we enthusiasts, but it's the numbers that sell. The marketing folk will take their polls, and figure out what will be the best design: the most neutral and unoffensive, usually. From there, they can make changes within trim levels, but unless you've got a whole separate car, you're limited.

The Acura Integra Type-R was a hot performer, but never 100% beautiful. It was still based off an existing car. "Hot versions" of existing cars have to be just that: modified, but not unrecognizeable from their roots.

So, as long as Subaru buyers clue in the company to what they want, the basics will remain.

On the other hand, designers will always try to spice up the mix. The launch of a new model is always tough. Posts like this, with anonymous (hey, it IS the Internet) comments by naysayers won't amount to much, particularly in this stage of the game. I don't think the production '06 Impreza will look a whole lot like these concept drawings. It will be tamer, with the exception of the STi/WRC extras that will be plastered onto the car. But in the end, I'm sure the design will be sound.

That's not guaranteed, but it's likely. Chris Bangle's work at BMW certainly raised eyebrows and neck hairs among many, but I think a lot of people still love the revisions. And messing with BMW is like "worst-case-scenario," when it comes to automotive design. Screw that up, and you'll have worse hell to deal with than you would with nearly any other marque.

But a lot of other designs have gone over exceedingly well. The new Audi grille raised eyebrows too, but looking at it, I think it's very handsome. Design meets the needs of the times, while introducing the possibilities for the future. A car is a research and marketing experiment, on wheels.

It'll work out. One thing you've got to have is faith in Subaru. :D

=S2=

Whatever happened to subtle, minor changes over years?

Instead of trying to modify the entire thing, just smooth it out over the years..

I don't like how every two years we get a different car..why not just stick with one design that most people like, and see what you can do with it?


The new rectangular headlights on the Impreza came about because the round ones were almost universally hated, especially overseas. Otherwise, it's mostly the same car, except for a few minor changes, as you mentioned.

But the existing car, fundamentally, has been out since the '02 model year, in the North American market. The previous Impreza ran from 1993-2001, a pretty long cycle. Most cars have a life cycle of four years, so expecting changes less often is a backward request, from a consumer standpoint. The GC just had an abnormally long lifespan, probably because it was such a hit overseas and Subie wanted to milk it until they were ready for the new car.

=S2=

I like it, It looks great.
this is the type of post I'm talking about though...
Ahh yes, he should apologize to the thread for getting into a conflict with the promoteddeputyfellow. I was looking at his other threads he started. As they have nothing to do with anything Subaru, I see that he just likes to inflame others. We should all refrain from pursuing his lead from now on.*

With that said.. :D, I'd like to say that I really like Jon [in CT]'s suggestion that they just drop the horrible name altogether, while I, and anyone else who wishes, adopt a "sit and wait" policy; a moratorium, if you will.





*original content edited heavily for grammar
I'm going to hell. (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7784613#post7784613) :devil:

Siper2 - Inciteful post. I guess this is the mixed bag you get with large corporations. This has been a long standing problem I've had with the auto industry. The large corporations release a good product in terms of underpinnings but I suppose the bottom dollar guides the styling. I suppose thats why I like the Spyker, Pagani and the Koeningsegg. They are unashamed and willing to be different in terms of their styling and both let their power and abilities stand at the forefront.

sherif

Yep, but those are limited-market cars, which can be dictated entirely by the artist's pen, with no regard for after-effect. Even if people hate the looks, they'll sell.

With a mass-market car, it's a big investment of time, money and resources, so I imagine it's not that simple.






Listen to me... I sound like some corporate analyst. The "me" of five years ago would've hated that. :p

As for being insightful? Ehh... maybe. But thanks. :)

=S2=

ugh, Looks like the aztec had some mutant children..

But I will say that sometimes you have to pay for what you get. There aren't a whole lot of "truly beautiful" cars south of the exotic price range. Just like anything else, you don't get somethin' for nothin.'I'll nominate the Mazda MX5 Miata. I wonder what would happen if Subaru just abandoned the "sub-compact" category now occupied by the Impreza and, instead, offered something like the Miata (but, obviously, with AWD and better performance). Subaru sorta hinted at something like that with its B9 Scrambler (aka B9SC). Would revenues fall or rise?

I say they'd rise, but not by much.

I'd vote for the Miata, too, and as a fan since it's '95 concept show bow, the S2000. Both are gorgeous, for the money.

Getting back to my first point... Honda gained revenue, I'd say, with the S2000. Perhaps similar to how Subaru would do, if they had a roadster.



Maybe they ought to just buy the rights to the Delfino. :D

Well, while we're talking about heritage, I think the new concept look is excellent.

Reminds me a little of this, the first "pretty" Subaru, the 1974 GL Coupe:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/Literature/brochures/1974-d.jpg

http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/Literature/brochures/1974-a.jpg


Look at the fender lines and the silhouette compared to the pic of the Impreza on the first page.

We also appear to be going back to the "classic" Subaru center grille design, not a ripoff of Alfa at all.

Wow.

I did not know that.



I'll be buggered. :)

Looks kinda BMW-ish.

http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/Literature/brochures/1978ca-1.jpg

So THERE's where they got the bug-eye idea from - it even has the upside-down trapezoid grille:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/Literature/brochures/1971-star-b.jpg

Well, while we're talking about heritage, I think the new concept look is excellent.

Reminds me a little of this, the first "pretty" Subaru, the 1974 GL Coupe:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/Literature/brochures/1974-d.jpg

http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/Literature/brochures/1974-a.jpg


Look at the fender lines and the silhouette compared to the pic of the Impreza on the first page.

We also appear to be going back to the "classic" Subaru center grille design, not a ripoff of Alfa at all.


ahh...
that's where the new design came from... :o

']I'll nominate the Mazda MX5 Miata. I wonder what would happen if Subaru just abandoned the "sub-compact" category now occupied by the Impreza and, instead, offered something like the Miata (but, obviously, with AWD and better performance). Subaru sorta hinted at something like that with its B9 Scrambler (aka B9SC). Would revenues fall or rise?

I think AWD may not be the best idea for a roadster. The key to a successful roadster is the weight control, and AWD isn't the best for that purpose. Plus if you put a small powertrain that fits the small chassis then AWD will be pretty much meaningless at that power level, and if you put a big powertrain that deserves the AWD then it's gonna be even heavier.

I can see something like SVX coming back though, but focused more as a luxury coupe since STi already owns the down right performance dept.

I think AWD may not be the best idea for a roadster. The key to a successful roadster is the weight control, and AWD isn't the best for that purpose. Plus if you put a small powertrain that fits the small chassis then AWD will be pretty much meaningless at that power level, and if you put a big powertrain that deserves the AWD then it's gonna be even heavier.The B9SC powertrain was, by no measure, "small." It incorporated both an electric motor and a 2.0L gasoline engine. However, it could combine both powerplants to drive the transmission. The day of the sub- 1 ton roadster is long gone (will even the US Lotus Elise weigh less than 2,000 lbs?) Now, BMW is considering a V8 for their M3. The issue is weight vs. power. I think Subaru could be very competitive in this arena.

was the subaru GL coupe sold as the subaru Leon (?) overseas?

gumball - I agree, the bug-eye though not widely accepted was a somewhat logical design evolution.

What I don't understand is all the n00bs chiming in here. The topic isn't for you to come in and just make a statement like, "I like it, It looks great." Isn't the topic self explanatory enough? I'm only interested in either people who can engage me in some sort of point v. point conversation or people who will agree with the point I've made in the topic.

PLEASE DON'T POST HERE IF YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO INCREASE YOUR POST COUNT OR HAVE NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO CONTRIBUTE

sherif
I'm wondering why this thread was ever considered apropos in this forum?
News? - Ziltch
Rumors? - Ziltch (again).

']...will even the US Lotus Elise weigh less than 2,000 lbs?

Well yes... yes it does in fact. 1975lbs actually (http://www.puresportscar.com/specs.php). Even lighter for the Sports version. I will admit that I'd be interested to see an AWD version of the Elise. It may help that nasty tendency to turn backwards after an overzealous corner entry. Then again, it may not.

was the subaru GL coupe sold as the subaru Leon (?) overseas?
Well, we had a number of different Subaru models sold under the "GL" or "DL" badging. The Leone was one of those models and yes I believe the coupe I posted above was a "Leone" in Japan. The much later Loyale was also a Leone.

rsholland - its a commentary on their design direction. If people had read my statements carefully rather than just immediatly post I stated that Subaru needs to look at their history in the GC8 and look at their design direction (ie; current concept designs) and I quote (myself), "please realize that you may be straying too far from your lineage."

sherif

Amen to that brother! there is a reason why Subaru stuck with the GC from 93 through 99 six years of a car that remained virtually the same!

GC for evah!!!

Amen to that brother! there is a reason why Subaru stuck with the GC from 93 through 99 six years of a car that remained virtually the same!

GC for evah!!!
Well, that's not completely true. There were several facelifts through the 90s. The original '92 model and the '01 model are very visually different, even in standard base model trim.

Lets clarify that we're discussing the Impreza WRX line. We're not discussing the GL, the SVX or otherwise, hell we're not even discussing the original Impreza...

Lets clarify that we're discussing the Impreza WRX line. We're not discussing the GL, the SVX or otherwise, hell we're not even discussing the original Impreza...
:confused: To whom are you addressing that? I posted the picture of the GL to draw a comparison to the 07 Impreza WRX concept picture. How is that not relevant?

Back on track....

I hate the new 07' concept.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/mt88/evosti.jpg

Subtract the lower blue divider so the front is completely open like the following picture and I don't think that will improve the new front. Also, I think it would help to have a larger triangle in the middle. The smaller it is the odder it looks.

http://img35.exs.cx/img35/9590/finaldrawing.jpg

I don't think the headlights look all that bad, infact I think the more I look at them the more I like them.

Finally, are we going to see a return of a large center roof scoop to the WRC car?

it should have taken subaru at least tem more years to get to this concept if they follow the same characteristics as the legacy.

instead they are trying to jump around and sell to anyone they can. not keep the people that bought subarus whens subaru really needed them to (90's).

imagine what a risk it was building factories and doing massive importations of subarus in the 90's. the first legacy was a big risk. it was alot bigger than the gl. and luckily for fhi it found it's base in that range. now it is slowly following it's demogrphic up the scale. which is what all cars should do.

the impraza was a a brand new car when it was introuduced in 91. it won rally after rally, in dominating ways. and the impreza found it's base with an excellent chassi, strong, lightweight, and nothing ugly to speak of at all. now subaru is bacically dipping everyone in ice cold water everytime they redesign it. because it isnt what i am ready for. alot of people cant get over the trauma of hypothermia.

designing a new car every three years isnt cheap, and at this rate who knows what the impreza will resemble in ten years. based on subaru's "pattern" so far, i predict death for the impreza if they dont start reckognizing thier roots.

the alfa grill actually does have roots in subaru. all of the grills have had it's shape since 90. but the grill was wide enough to extend until the headlights. i just think the have jumped way ahead of themselves, and shrunk the grill in like me sucking on my cheeks to be more aerodynamic on a motorcycle. If they dont focus on (what is still thier most loved car) the gc's missing link they may loose alot of people thay cant afford to.

i admit, i like the video game concept above me, but i would rather they spend money on making it lighter, faster, and stronger. all i want them to do is put a few deisigners in a room with metal working tools, old gc body pannels, and the next gen chassi. then tell the design folk to make them fit and redesign the body.

they have spent too much man power on body work. and it isnt working. imo, rant over

Subtract the lower blue divider so the front is completely open like the following picture and I don't think that will improve the new front. Also, I think it would help to have a larger triangle in the middle. The smaller it is the odder it looks.



I don't think the headlights look all that bad, infact I think the more I look at them the more I like them.


Actually I really like the headlights on the WRC game drawing. Combined with a thinner grille (like on the B9 Tribeca), make the center divider black plastic (it'll be covered by the license plate anyways), and move the foglights to a more realistic position, and it actually seems flow ok:

http://members.shaw.ca/anon123/wrcgamechop.jpg

I absolutely and wholeheartedly agree. The proposed Impreza design looks like a cross between an Edsel and an anteater. It is incredibly ugly. What amazes me is that some people actually don't mind its incredibly ugly look. But then again, there are people who collect AMC Pacers.

How about something along the lines of a modernized 22B? That was one of the few Subarus that I think was visually appealing in a masculine, aggressive sense.

Yeah, I love the new direction of the Impreza line... Oh wait, this is the "Hate the next-gen Impreza design" thread... My bad. :rolleyes:

life goes on . . . and so do car designs. cherish what you like, and let everyone else that wants to move on!

if cars designs never changed, everyone would all be driving around in variations of the model t . . . again!

just got to let them do their thing, and hope they don't make a crap car....... pt cruser..cough..cough ....... and the lumpy rear end of the new mustang, which everyone else seems to be blinded to.

I like this:
http://img35.exs.cx/img35/9590/finaldrawing.jpg

Better then either of these:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/mt88/evosti.jpg

However since these are all concepts, I doubt the production vehicles will look like exactly like these concepts, and I bet when the vehicle comes out, some of the people who hated the drawings will love it and vice versa.

Subaru is simply trying a new design direction and it remains to be seen if it will work. I'll hold my judgement of the new Impreza until it comes out, don't see the point in arguing over a drawing.
(personaly I hope that the B11S makes production)

I think its funny that people are already complaining and pleading with subaru not to ruin the design of the impreza when all that has surfaced has been drawing and photochop speculations. Relax and have a little faith in Subaru. Theyve come along way from the brat-producing virtually unknown company to what they are today. I mean look at the legacy, its gorgeous. I highly doubt Subaru is going to drastically change the bread and butter of its line up, the impreza. Like all subarus it will be different but I'm sure we will all still have the same affinity for it.

Relax and have a little faith in Subaru
...
I highly doubt Subaru is going to drastically change the bread and butter of its line up, the impreza.

*cough* 02 *cough*
*cough* 04 bandaid *cough*

the CURRENT Impreza is quite FUGLY and thats comming from an X WRX owner.I really like the car and didn't care due to great performance. No secret anything is an improvment

Complain all you want, but this new (family) look is locked in.

http://www.drive.subaru.com/Sum03_B11S.htm

and...

http://www.drive.subaru.com/Win04_DesignRevolution.htm

Bob

I will buy one. Hope it comes out this summer. Looks great compared to current Frog look

There you go again, Bob. Keep in mind that your posts are merely personal opinion, and that you're trying to substantiate them into fact. I can dig up posts where you personally attack others for questioning Subaru's design direction and disagreeing with your opinions.

Since you have 30 years in design and marketing, why don't you just apply for a job at Subaru instead of armchair quarterbacking here at NASIOC. I'm sure your experience and numerous posts here will give you an inside edge.

I'd love to stay and argue here, but unfortunately, I have a life that extends beyond the keyboard.


There's a whole lot I could to say in reponse to that, but won't. What I will say is this: I've spent well over 30 years in design and marketing. I know what I'm talking about. Subaru is doing the right thing in terms of developing a new distinctive family face, which they need to have if they intend to become a premium nameplate.

You can disagree with that "corporate" decision all you want, but that's the situation at hand. It will no longer be business as usual with Subaru.

Bob

Ok, as a new subaru enthusiast I have to chime in here. I'm not one of the people suffering from "dont change my WRC championship winning car" syndrome. And i'm not one of the "It's new so it's better" people. I bought my GC out of necessity and price, not looks. I have to say though, the bugeye is not pleasing to the eye. Neither is the bandaid of the 04 redesign. I could plop a lawnchair in front of my GC and look at it all day though. The slight outward slope of the outline of the grill, the upward angle of the top of the headlights, it just works. The only part I dont like is the center of the bumper where the licence plate holder is, that part sucks.

I strongly believe that a car's character is in the "eyes" (headlights for those less artistic). The 02's had no character, and the 04's are better, but still not good.

As for the backside, i'm going to have to go with the GC again. It just looks mean, like it's ready to pounce on a unsuspecting honda or mitsubishi. The spacing between the tire, and the tire width are reminiscent of many high end sports cars. The diff just looks right. The rear bumper could use a little work, but the v6 rear spats do a lot in that department. The taillights too could use a little work, the JDM ones are better, but you can only change so much. The trunkline is great, and flows into the c-pillars sloping inward at the top just enough. From the back, it just looks like it's mean.

There you go again, Bob. Keep in mind that your posts are merely personal opinion, and that you're trying to substantiate them into fact. I can dig up posts where you personally attack others for questioning Subaru's design direction and disagreeing with your opinions.

Since you have 30 years in design and marketing, why don't you just apply for a job at Subaru instead of armchair quarterbacking here at NASIOC. I'm sure your experience and numerous posts here will give you an inside edge.

I'd love to stay and argue here, but unfortunately, I have a life that extends beyond the keyboard.

Geez, I posted that back in October—and you're just now getting around to responding???

I mention my background in design and marketing because I've been there, and to a degree, have stood in their (Subaru's) shoes. I understand and appreciate what Subaru is trying to do—from a business standpoint; not sure you and a lot of others here do, judging by what I've been reading.

I'd love to work at SOA. :) In the meantime, you'll just have to put up with my posts, whether you like them or not, just as I have to put up with yours. So continue your whining if you so choose. The new look is a done deal. Don't like it, buy something else, it's a free country.

Bob

Ok, as a new subaru enthusiast I have to chime in here. I'm not one of the people suffering from "dont change my WRC championship winning car" syndrome. And i'm not one of the "It's new so it's better" people. I bought my GC out of necessity and price, not looks. I have to say though, the bugeye is not pleasing to the eye. Neither is the bandaid of the 04 redesign. I could plop a lawnchair in front of my GC and look at it all day though. The slight outward slope of the outline of the grill, the upward angle of the top of the headlights, it just works. The only part I dont like is the center of the bumper where the licence plate holder is, that part sucks.

I strongly believe that a car's character is in the "eyes" (headlights for those less artistic). The 02's had no character, and the 04's are better, but still not good.

As for the backside, i'm going to have to go with the GC again. It just looks mean, like it's ready to pounce on a unsuspecting honda or mitsubishi. The spacing between the tire, and the tire width are reminiscent of many high end sports cars. The diff just looks right. The rear bumper could use a little work, but the v6 rear spats do a lot in that department. The taillights too could use a little work, the JDM ones are better, but you can only change so much. The trunkline is great, and flows into the c-pillars sloping inward at the top just enough. From the back, it just looks like it's mean.

Wow I pretty much agree with everything - except the backend. While the GC backend is better than the current one (and the 02 backend better than the current one - arbitrarily drawing a circle in the middle of nowhere on the tailights is NOT pretty), it just doesn't look quite right. I think it's the top part - it needs to have an integrated spoiler look to it, like the legacy, or acura RSX, or BMW 3 series, or Audi A4(previous years)....etc.

Bobby, Bobby, Bobby.... I tolerate your whining (and personally find it mildly entertaining most of the time) :cool:

My pet peeve is that when others whine (and don't agree with you like me, EFITE, Ghost etc..), why do you always have to go and chew them out? It's a free country, right? And isn't it best for Subaru to hear from all of their fans?

Nothing personal... I might sell my Legacy GT one of these days and just buy one of the Zap Subarus so that you won't have to be the only person in America driving one ;)



In the meantime, you'll just have to put up with my posts, whether you like them or not, just as I have to put up with yours. So continue your whining if you so choose. The new look is a done deal. Don't like it, buy something else, it's a free country.

Bob

Bobby, Bobby, Bobby.... I tolerate your whining (and personally find it mildly entertaining most of the time) :cool:

My pet peeve is that when others whine (and don't agree with you like me, EFITE, Ghost etc..), why do you always have to go and chew them out? It's a free country, right? And isn't it best for Subaru to hear from all of their fans?

Nothing personal... I might sell my Legacy GT one of these days and just buy one of the Zap Subarus so that you won't have to be the only person in America driving one ;)

Baby, Baby, Baby... I speak my mind whenever I see fit. You want a silly and useless thread like this one, fine, that gives me the opportunity to chime in and speak my mind. You're beginning to sound like sour grapes. The design is locked in. Nothing you're going to say is going to change that. Whine on...

Bob

Cool, I kinda like it. I may just end up buying an STi if it looks like that. I really wish they'd produce the roadster though...

I Love It!

Robert, everybody's entitled to their own opinion, just like you are.

Just because you don't like what someone else has to say doesn't give you the right to bully and insult them. If you think that does, then I feel sorry for you.

Keep it up, maybe somebody will give you the attention you're seeking one day. If you have anything else to say, let's take it to PM.



Baby, Baby, Baby... I speak my mind whenever I see fit. You want a silly and useless thread like this one, fine, that gives me the opportunity to chime in and speak my mind. You're beginning to sound like sour grapes. The design is locked in. Nothing you're going to say is going to change that. Whine on...

Bob

The front end on the concepts just seems too busy. Too many holes and mini grills leading itself to likely be fragile and expensive. The Alfa style yoke looks too large and out of place. You have sharp geometric design keys everywhere and then an upside down egg in the center of the grill. It gets emphasized too much. Look at the pictures of the 70's Subarus. Yes they have a yoke type design, but it is subdued and far more blended in. The concept also looks to be front heavy or have too much overhang (think Firebird/Camaro). They need to keep more towards sedan and less towards sports coupe.

Robert, everybody's entitled to their own opinion, just like you are.

Just because you don't like what someone else has to say doesn't give you the right to bully and insult them. If you think that does, then I feel sorry for you.

Keep it up, maybe somebody will give you the attention you're seeking one day. If you have anything else to say, let's take it to PM.

You don't like the message, so you decide to shoot the messenger. Bully and insult... gimme a break...

Bob

The design is locked in. Nothing you're going to say is going to change that. Whine on...

Bob

Not to jump in the middle of things, but I'm sure the Bug Eye designers thought it was a "done deal" only to find their design tossed a *very* short time later.

For those of us who find the new styling less than attractive (to put it mildly) there's the hope that like the Bug Eye, this new Vacuum Cleaner Intake styling motif will very quickly fade into the bin of bad design ideas with the Aztek and other automotive atrocities.

Not to jump in the middle of things, but I'm sure the Bug Eye designers thought it was a "done deal" only to find their design tossed a *very* short time later.

For those of us who find the new styling less than attractive (to put it mildly) there's the hope that like the Bug Eye, this new Vacuum Cleaner Intake styling motif will very quickly fade into the bin of bad design ideas with the Aztek and other automotive atrocities.

Not likely. You're talking about a whole new "corporate" look, not the look of a specific model. The chances of it being overturned are about slim to none.

Keep in mind not one person here has seen a "real" ready-for-production Subaru (R1/R2 don't count) with this new look—and yet everyone on this thread is jumping all over it. How can you criticize something you haven't seen yet? Boggles the mind...

Bob

Not likely. You're talking about a whole new "corporate" look, not the look of a specific model. The chances of it being overturned are about slim to none.

Keep in mind not one person here has seen a "real" ready-for-production Subaru (R1/R2 don't count) with this new look—and yet everyone on this thread is jumping all over it. How can you criticize something you haven't seen yet? Boggles the mind...

Bob

I have to agree - whether or not the new design will look good all depends on *execution*. There's really nothing inherently ugly or good-looking about an abstract concept such as "wings with propellor". Hating that is like saying you think squares are ugly. We can make the GC look ugly, or we can make bugeyes look beautiful too (Porsche).
Along that line, the whole new "corporate look" is set in stone, but *we don't know what that look is*, beyond an artistic B9 Tribeca drawing. Therefore there is nothing to accept, at least not yet, and nothing to like either.

(<-- thinks squares are ugly)

Your answer to Ghost above is precisely what I am talking about. Subaru created concepts such as the Scrambler and the B11SC precisely to gauge reaction to their new design direction. Not to mention the Impreza rally car in WRC 2003 which is being discussed.

Shouldn't someone with your experience immediately know that those are meant to gauge customer perceptions? Doesn't boggle the mind now, does it? :lol:




You don't like the message, so you decide to shoot the messenger. Bully and insult... gimme a break...

Bob

Your answer to Ghost above is precisely what I am talking about. Subaru created concepts such as the Scrambler and the B11SC precisely to gauge reaction to their new design direction. Not to mention the Impreza rally car in WRC 2003 which is being discussed.

Shouldn't someone with your experience immediately know that those are meant to gauge customer perceptions? Doesn't boggle the mind now, does it? :lol:

I feel like I'm dealing with a 2-year old here... :rolleyes:

Bob

I feel like I'm dealing with a 2-year old here... :rolleyes:

Bob
Ok guys, settle down, we dont want to get this thread locked because we resort to name-calling now do we?

Ok guys, settle down, we dont want to get this thread locked because we resort to name-calling now do we?

Actually, I would LOVE to see this thread get locked, as it's for nothing but whinners like that jerk who has nothing better to do than act like a 2-year old brat who's not getting his way.

So moderators, if you want to lock this thread, be my guest.

Bob

Hey, big guy.. I guess I've been a bit harsh on you- after all, everybody needs to feel important one way or another, even if it's only through feigning an aura of omniscience on Internet auto forums and being in the Subaru magazine I got in the mail today :lol:


Just so there's no hard feelings, I hereby declare you the king of all Internet auto messageboards for eternity, even though you're a jerk who has nothing better to do than act like a 2-year old brat who's not getting his way.


Bob is the man! :banana:




Actually, I would LOVE to see this thread get locked, as it's for nothing but whinners like that jerk who has nothing better to do than act like a 2-year old brat who's not getting his way.

So moderators, if you want to lock this thread, be my guest.

Bob

double post

Too much anger here, guys...

rsholland, I think babywoxfan was being too mean-spirited, but IMHO, you come across as angry and insulting whenever someone disagrees about the Zap grille and for the good of the forum, could you please tone it down a little?

Too much anger here, guys...

rsholland, I think babywoxfan was being too mean-spirited, but IMHO, you come across as angry and insulting whenever someone disagrees about the Zap grille and for the good of the forum, could you please tone it down a little?

Tell you what... "for the good of the forum," I'm not going to participate any more in this thread, since it's nothing but an exercise in futility, and is fast heading for the gutter.

Babyvoxfan—
Yes, I'm in current issue of DRIVE magazine. I've also been asked by the powers that be, to be a contributor to Subdriven.com, and currently have an article posted over there as well. In addition, I was invited by SOA to Detroit for the debut of the Legacy last year, as well as to the Legacy/Outback Ride-and-Drive at Las Vegas last May. So, in contrast to you and all your immature and sarcastic comments, there are plenty out there who "do" value what I have to say.

Bob

Where are the parents to these kids? J/K ;)

Ok guys... I honestly can say that I haven't contributed to this thread because everything is based on photochop SPECULATIONS!!!! Though I have been reading this thread for entertainment purposes!

People... get over yourselves and stop the bickering.

On Bob's defense, he has contributed more to Subaru than alot of you do driving one. He's a contributor and always gives SOA feedback to what people are saying, so don't take his 'position' with a grain of salt.

Don't make this a "holier than thou" debate. Respect each other.... we're all here for the same reason.

Now, get back to entertaining me about you griping about a vehicle that has not been officially shown :lol:

ehhhh


Where are the parents to these kids? J/K ;)

Ok guys... I honestly can say that I haven't contributed to this thread because everything is based on photochop SPECULATIONS!!!! Though I have been reading this thread for entertainment purposes!

People... get over yourselves and stop the bickering.

On Bob's defense, he has contributed more to Subaru than alot of you do driving one. He's a contributor and always gives SOA feedback to what people are saying, so don't take his 'position' with a grain of salt.

Don't make this a "holier than thou" debate. Respect each other.... we're all here for the same reason.

Now, get back to entertaining me about you griping about a vehicle that has not been officially shown :lol:

Okay, maybe I have been a bit overzealous with my comments here, but I get soooooooooo frustrated reading some of the comments made here, and their accompanying justifications. And I stand by my comments that what is being said here, pro or con, is going to have any effect. The decision has been made, for better or for worse, to pursue this design direction.

Here's the deal: This decision to change the corporate look of Subaru cars is a decision that FHI took a long time coming to. It was not an easy decision, and I'm sure there were many internal battles about it that we will never hear about.

This is not a decision about "headlights" or other "styling" details. This is about what Subaru is going to represent to the public, about who they are, and it goes to the core of what this corporation is about. It is very much like designing a corporate identity (logo and its various applications thereof—of which I have done many of over the years), because the front of any car is their corporate signature, just like a logo is on a business card, letterhead, or a marketing brochure.

Also, keep in mind, nowhere in all my comments have I defended the look they have chosen. What I have said all along is that they need a corporate look that sets themselves apart from the rest of the automotive industry. This new look they've chosen does just that. No longer will Subaru be confused with Kia or any other brand.

So the question is: Do I like the direction they've chosen? I don't like it or dislike it—and no that's not a cop-out. I think this "can" work if the designers are skillful in applying it, and if management lets the designers do what they do best—design. We've all seen on these NASIOC forums a multitude of Photoshopped images of what these cars "could" look like; some being pretty good, and some being downright awful.

That's why I keep saying lets wait and see what ends up in the showrooms. Yes, I know that concept cars are shown to get public response. I also know that concept cars are almost always a deliberate exaggeration of specific styling cues. Rarely do concept cars ever make it from concept to production without many of the various styling elements being toned down.

So there. I'm outta here.

Bob

....

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2004/12/17/automobiles/19aztek583.jpg

:lol: :alien:

I like it, i just hope the new versian has adjustable seat bolsters and maybe a little extra back seat room.

Best thread evAr.
:lol:

With that said, I'm not a fan of Subaru's new direction. Then again, I'm a bug-eye lover who's looking to spend a small fortune on jdm headlights, so I'm a bit biased. Imho, the MY04 generation lost what made me love the Subaru, which is unique styling, not simple Corolla type S, or RSX front ends with a bird snatching hoodscoop thrown in for good measure.

Babyvoxfan—
Yes, I'm in current issue of DRIVE magazine. In addition, I was invited by SOA to Detroit for the debut of the Legacy last year, as well as to the Legacy/Outback Ride-and-Drive at Las Vegas last May. So, in contrast to you and all your immature and sarcastic comments, there are plenty out there who "do" value what I have to say.

Bob


Bob, you were invited by the powers-that-be :lol: to write at a Subaru fansite looking for contributors? I'm sooo impressed :rolleyes:

And the fact that SoA has decided to reward your Wesley Clark-level brownnosing online and years as a pro-bono Subaru apologist with a few trips has really knocked my socks off! :banana:

I'd rather be immature and sarcastic than be a grouchy, sociophobic old fart who keeps trying to maintain a facade of importance... but I liked (and accept) your apology though- since I'm such a nice guy, maybe we can trade lives?

Let's see.... I would get the Forester, and your cushy job at Subdriven and then you get my 2005 ABP Legacy 2.5GT wagon, phone numbers ;) and frequent flyer miles.

Ehhh.... on second thought, no way! :lol:

Well that last post of yours pretty much sums it all up, doesn't it? I think folks here have a pretty good idea about who and what you are, and what you stand for. Go ahead, continue to insult me, because each time you do, you just come off looking like a bigger jerk...

Bob

Sorry for the above post, as I said I was no longer going to post here, and/or respond to those insults. Well, as you can see, I responded to another idiotic and childish post before I had my morning cup of coffee (yes, I'm grouchy when I wake up), and now find out I can't delete it. So, again, sorry...

Bob

Bob, he's just trying to get a rise out of ya. Ignore it.

on the other hand it has bee a lot of fun to read :p

While I'm typing I might as well throw in my $.02

I've seen a car with the new look that I loved (B9sc) one that I was neutral about (B11s) and one that I didnt' like (R2, sorry for all the R2 lovers out there)

I think the look has great potential, and I'm willing to give it a try.

It seems to me like a thread called "Please post here if you hate the next-gen impreza design" is just asking for an argument...especially when we havn't seen a car yet.

mo

Bob, kids here just don't get it! Don't scoop to their level...

As nice as I try to put it, immaturity sets in on you guys and it doesn't phase you that you guys continue to look like uneducated foes up in here.

babyvoxfan:

IF you took his apology, then accept it! Don't justify other people's intentions of apology by storming their position or what they do. Honestly, you came off very immature with your comments!!!


What is all this garbage supposed to mean...? (below)

Bob, you were invited by the powers-that-be :lol: to write at a Subaru fansite looking for contributors? I'm sooo impressed :rolleyes:

And the fact that SoA has decided to reward your Wesley Clark-level brownnosing online and years as a pro-bono Subaru apologist with a few trips has really knocked my socks off! :banana:

I'd rather be immature and sarcastic than be a grouchy, sociophobic old fart who keeps trying to maintain a facade of importance... but I liked (and accept) your apology though- since I'm such a nice guy, maybe we can trade lives?

Let's see.... I would get the Forester, and your cushy job at Subdriven and then you get my 2005 ABP Legacy 2.5GT wagon, phone numbers ;) and frequent flyer miles.

Ehhh.... on second thought, no way! :lol:

If anything, you've accomplished nothing!

Now get