Could you believe that the only Subaru listed in the top three vehicules per segment is the Baja in compact pickup, ahead of the Chevy Canyon and Ford Explorer Sport Trac???

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7655&sid=270&n=156

2004 APEAL Brand Rankings

910 Lexus
903 Porsche
902 Cadillac
900 BMW
897 Jaguar
896 Infiniti
895 Mercedes-Benz
892 Acura
890 MINI
887 Audi
887 Lincoln
883 Volvo
881 HUMMER
873 Saab
867 Land Rover
864 Mazda
859 Nissan
857 Volkswagen
856 Mercury
855 Mitsubishi
854 Honda
852 Chrysler
852 Hyundai
852 Toyota
852 Industry Average
850 Scion
848 Dodge
847 GMC
843 Ford
841 Pontiac
836 Chevrolet
834 Buick
834 Saturn
834 Suzuki
830 Kia
827 Subaru
818 Jeep
811 Oldsmobile
810 Isuzu

Source: J.D. Power and Associates 2004 Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) StudySM


Top Three Vehicles per Segment

Compact Car (1)

Highest Ranked: MINI Cooper
Mazda3
Toyota Prius


Entry Midsize Car
Highest Ranked: Chevrolet Malibu
Hyundai Sonata
Kia Optima


Premium Midsize Car
Highest Ranked: Volvo S40 (2004.5)
Nissan Maxima
Kia Amanti


Full-Size Car
Highest Ranked: Mercury Marauder
Mercury Grand Marquis
Ford Crown Victoria


Entry Luxury Car
Highest Ranked: Chrysler 300 Series (2005)
Acura TL
Cadillac CTS (tie)
Lexus IS 300/IS 300 SportCross (tie)


Mid Luxury Car
Highest Ranked: BMW 5 Series Sedan
Cadillac DeVille
Lincoln Town Car



Premium Luxury Car (2)
Highest Ranked: BMW 7 Series
Lexus LS 430
Jaguar XJ


Sporty Car
Highest Ranked: Pontiac GTO
Volkswagen GTI
Hyundai Tiburon (tie)
Dodge SRT-4 (tie)


Premium Sports Car
Highest Ranked: Porsche Boxster
Porsche 911
BMW Z4


Compact Pickup
Highest Ranked: Subaru Baja
GMC Canyon
Ford Explorer Sport Trac


Light-Duty Full-Size Pickup
Highest Ranked: Cadillac Escalade EXT
Nissan Titan
Ford F-150 LD


Heavy-Duty Full-Size Pickup
Highest Ranked: Dodge Ram Pickup HD
GMC Sierra HD
Ford F-250/F-350 Super Duty


Entry SUV
Highest Ranked: Chevrolet Equinox (2005)
Honda Element
Ford Escape (2005)


Midsize SUV
Highest Ranked: Nissan Murano
Kia Sorento
Dodge Durango


Full-Size SUV
Highest Ranked: Nissan Armada
Toyota Sequoia
GMC Yukon (Total)


Entry Luxury SUV
Highest Ranked: Lexus RX 330
Infiniti FX-Series
BMW X5


Premium Luxury SUV
Highest Ranked: Lexus LX 470
Lexus GX 470
Cadillac Escalade/Escalade ESV


Compact Van
Highest Ranked: Toyota Sienna
Nissan Quest
Mercury Monterey

1 Includes the Entry Compact Car and Premium Compact Car segments

2 Includes the Premium Luxury Car and Luxury Sport Car segments



Source: J.D. Power and Associates 2004 Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) StudySM

I'm dissappointed, especially for "sporty car" - you'd think the WRX or STI would be in that. Also for "Entry SUV" - Consumer Reports gave the Forrester "best small SUV".

I'm ultimately not surprised, I mean Subie's have always had kind of a cult following and still have but a niche of the overall market. Oh well, we know what they are missing.

Here's a copy of the J. D. Power press release where they argue that their Performance/Execution/Layout scores are correlated to resale value (from http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004150).J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
Chrysler 300/300C, Chevrolet Malibu and Other New Models Make
Dramatic Improvements in Customer APEAL

APEAL Performance Has Direct Impact on Resale Values

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: October 14, 2004


WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—With a steady flow of all-new and redesigned vehicle models being launched in 2004, several redesigns successfully boost their appeal over the models they replace with bold styling and novel features that connect with owners, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2004 Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) StudySM released today.

There are 43 all-new or redesigned models in the 2004 APEAL Study, which measures owner delight with the design, content, layout and performance of their new vehicles—the most launches included in the study in recent years. Among major redesigns, the Chevrolet Malibu and the Chrysler 300/300C stand out with dramatic improvements in APEAL scores over their previous models. While the highest ratings are in the cockpit/instrument panel category for the Malibu and in exterior styling for the 300/300C, both models benefit from a boost in horsepower over the models they replace, with strong improvements in engine/transmission ratings.

"Vehicles that engage customers immediately upon first sight tend to keep those customers around to learn more about the vehicles," said Joe Ivers, partner and executive director of quality/customer satisfaction at J.D. Power and Associates. "A model launch or redesign is a manufacturer’s biggest opportunity to take advantage of this during the model’s life cycle."

Among all-new models, the Nissan Armada, Chevrolet Equinox and Pontiac GTO each debut at the top of the rankings in their respective segments.

Lexus continues to rank highest among nameplates, boasting two segment-leading SUV models: RX 330 and LX 470. Among luxury nameplates, Cadillac and Jaguar make the biggest improvements. Cadillac showed improvement on almost all models, and receives strong ratings for the all-new SRX. Jaguar’s improvement comes mainly from the new aluminum XJ, which far exceeds its predecessor in APEAL. Mazda and Mitsubishi make the strongest improvements among non-luxury brands. Mazda benefits from strong ratings for the new Mazda3 and the RX8, while Mitsubishi’s gain rides on the new Galant and the Endeavor. Nissan continues to launch vehicles with high APEAL scores, including strong debuts for the Armada, Titan and Quest.

Consumers and Automakers Both Benefit from High APEAL

Above and beyond several other factors that cause vehicles to retain their value, APEAL is a substantial driver. This finding emerged from a comprehensive analysis of retained value developed by the Power Information Network, LLC. Also contributing are the perceived durability of the nameplate, along with actual long-term vehicle quality, which is measured in the J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Study (http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004055)SM (VDS).

"High-APEAL vehicles usually do well in the new-vehicle market. They also, however, tend to become among the most desirable used cars. This demand bids up their prices," said Ivers. "This impact is seen by whoever continues to own the vehicle. Consumers have more equity to trade toward a replacement vehicle, and automakers who re-market off-lease vehicles benefit by profiting twice from the sale of the same vehicle."

The 2004 APEAL Study is based on responses from 102,951 new-vehicle owners who were surveyed during the first 90 days of ownership. The study, now in its ninth year, is based on eight categories of vehicle performance and design: engine/transmission; ride, handling and braking; comfort/convenience; seats; cockpit/instrument panel; heating, ventilation and cooling; sound system; and styling/exterior.

Headquartered in Westlake Village, Calif., J.D. Power and Associates is an ISO 9001-registered global marketing information services firm operating in key business sectors including market research, forecasting, consulting, training and customer satisfaction. The firm’s quality and satisfaction measurements are based on responses from millions of consumers annually. Media e-mail contact: michael.greywitt@jdpa.com or john.tews@jdpa.com

No advertising or other promotional use can be made of the information in this release without the express prior written consent of J.D. Power and Associates. www.jdpower.com

http://www.jdpower.com/presspass/pr/images/2004150a.gif
http://www.jdpower.com/presspass/pr/images/2004150b.gif

Sporty Car
Highest Ranked: Pontiac GTO
Volkswagen GTI
Hyundai Tiburon (tie)
Dodge SRT-4 (tie)
:huh:

Yeah when I read that, I basically took the rest of the article for garbage.

One other perception problem for subaru - This not meant to offend anyone in anyway - but the general feedback from my wife about subaru from her peers & co workers (I have a wrx and love it - want an STI very badly).

Women who drive subarus are lesbians.

I realize this is an unfair stereotype - but from what I gather, it is common spread. For this reason alone my wife wouldn't consider the new legacy GT or GT Limited. This can't help a cars APPEAL.

I have no faith in JD Power marketing research skills or techniques whatsoever. .

Full-Size Car
Highest Ranked: Mercury Marauder
Mercury Grand Marquis
Ford Crown Victoria


All three are basically the same car!

What a load of crap...ask 10 people if they rather drive a Kia or a Subaru and we'll make our own report. :rolleyes: :mad:


For this reason alone my wife wouldn't consider the new legacy GT or GT Limited. This can't help a cars APPEAL.

No offense to you or your wife, but that's a dumb reason not to buy a good car. :rolleyes: :(

One other perception problem for subaru - This not meant to offend anyone in anyway - but the general feedback from my wife about subaru from her peers & co workers (I have a wrx and love it - want an STI very badly).

Women who drive subarus are lesbians.

I realize this is an unfair stereotype - but from what I gather, it is common spread. For this reason alone my wife wouldn't consider the new legacy GT or GT Limited. This can't help a cars APPEAL.


yeah, and subaru has an unfortunate legacy of being very popular in the post-VW-yet-can't-afford-a-volvo upwardly mobile hippie crowd (at least on the west coast). also, it doesn't help that subaru's are abominably ugly.

hey, i love subaru as much as the next guy (that is why i am in this forum), but it is their own d@mn fault. they only released sensible, reliable, practical, homely cars for decades.

excellent traits for utility. bad traits for emotional response. and appeal is an emotional response.

All three are basically the same car!
Other than FoMoCo, who else makes a mass production full-size car?... And remember, the Magnum is a 'truck' built on a midsize sedan chassis.

"Vehicles that engage customers immediately upon first sight tend to keep those customers around to learn more about the vehicles,"

For what they are measuring, this survey makes some sense. But if, like most Subaru owners, you buy a car primarily for its functionality rather than superficial emotional appeal, and plan to keep it for a long time, the survey is not all that relevant.


tower210: Are you serious? sos3 is right; that's just dumb.

"Vehicles that engage customers immediately upon first sight tend to keep those customers around to learn more about the vehicles,"

So people look at a Suzuki car and it's love at first sight? :huh: :lol:

:confused: When I see a Lexus, I think "nice looking car...kinda plain looking"

And what so different from Lexus/MB/BMW/Infiniti/Jaguar? They are all higher priced "luxury" cars. They all "send the same message" to me.

It all makes perfect sense to me. Subarus are rather unattractive cultish cars in the USDM. The Legacy is the first good-looking (wagon, that is, the sedan is too bland) vehicle to come from Subaru. WRX? No. STi? Hell, no. Forester. Attractive in a utilitarian way, but not immediately appealing.

In this very forum, many people have dissected exactly why Subaru is missing the boat, so why is everyone surprised about this survey? The rest of the world feels the same way many members of this forum feel. Which, returning to a sore subject, a $34K Legacy GT with HID, navigation, etc., would have gone over like a lead balloon.

We all know that Subarus are fabulous cars, which is why we all own them. But it's something that hasn't quite rubbed off on the rest of the world yet, for various reasons. Marketplace perception counts for a lot. You have to see, drive and experience a Subaru to "get it," so to speak. The car still isn't pre-sold, the way many marques are. Kias are inexpensive. The German marques have prestige. If you want a truck, you want a big, giant one. Everything is pre-sold.

But if you want a great-performing, all-wheel-drive sporty car, where do you go? Once you realize that most people don't care about AWD, all OVER the place. A WRX is a performance bargain, but it's a pain in the butt to drive for most people. "Where's the speed...oh, wait, there it is." A slower VW, for example, with a six-cylinder will drive better and be a subjectively nicer car.

I love my Legacy. It's a fully ready for prime-time Subaru, and I'm seeing new Outbacks all OVER the place. Make the cars, get the reward. But appeal works on many levels. Mike Wevrick puts it perfectly in his summation, IMHO.

Kevin

Honda offers no 5-door hatchbacks or station wagons in the US market. Does not appeal to my vehicle needs very well.

Well, at least this problem is exactly what the new "premium" initiative (focussed on emotion) is supposed to address. So at least FHI recognizes the problem and is doing something about it.

One other perception problem for subaru - This not meant to offend anyone in anyway - but the general feedback from my wife about subaru from her peers & co workers (I have a wrx and love it - want an STI very badly).

Women who drive subarus are lesbians.

I realize this is an unfair stereotype - but from what I gather, it is common spread. For this reason alone my wife wouldn't consider the new legacy GT or GT Limited. This can't help a cars APPEAL.

You're right!
Only women who are comfortable with their womanhood would consider a Subaru and that is why my wife drives one :p

Let me get this straight, this is a study of how a the general population rates brands??

Feh, I couldn't care less if they rated subaru 5 and kia 900...

Let me get this straight, this is a study of how a the general population rates brands??

Feh, I couldn't care less if they rated subaru 5 and kia 900...

Most people don't care. But the manufacturers do.

All jd powers does is tout the brands that every 15 yr old boy wants. the cars on the list are the ones i wanted when i was a kid. Porche,ect., lexus, come on. Most of these list are crap. They pick and choose whom they get their information from. Those with the money win the popularity contest.

This kind of generic surveys are pretty rediculous, but considering the things they measure and their target audience usually they are at least understandable. Now the brand ranking is a load of cr@p IMO, but I can understand it. What I can't understand is their sporty car rating. They care about "resale" and they pick the tiburon and SRT-4, they talk about love at first sight and they pick (again) SRT-4. Who are these morons.

Could you believe that the only Subaru listed in the top three vehicules per segment is the Baja in compact pickup, ahead of the Chevy Canyon and Ford Explorer Sport Trac???

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7655&sid=270&n=156

That's a first for the Baja. :banana:

yeah, and subaru has an unfortunate legacy of being very popular in the post-VW-yet-can't-afford-a-volvo upwardly mobile hippie crowd (at least on the west coast).

i've got to agree with you there...at least in washington there are a decent number of subarus (at least more than i've seen in the midwest), both new and old, and the general concensus is that unless it's an RS, WRX, or an STi a "tree hugger" is probably at the wheel...as for popularity i hope subaru itself grows in the US, but i'd rather the WRX and STi remain slim on the road :)

a hyndia tiberon is a sports car?

Other than FoMoCo, who else makes a mass production full-size car?...

How about the Chrysler 300 ? Its mass production. Its full size. It can be had for mid-$20's and up.

I think survey after survey, JD Powers have proven themselves to be completely worthless.

APEAL? Initial Quality?

Worst. criteria. Evar.

Image > *. That pretty much sums up this whole survey.

I think survey after survey, JD Powers have proven themselves to be completely worthless.

APEAL? Initial Quality?

Worst. criteria. Evar.
I agree. They always hand out awards that sound fine and dandy until you read the criteria and think, "***? they based the award on that?" I mean, ****, they give out awards for initial quality. All cars are nice the day you get them. It is 2 years down the road when people are sick of the damn things and trading them for something different.

~~Quentin

:huh: :huh: :huh: :mad: :mad:
kia, suzuki, ford, buick, above subaru :rolleyes:
this is some complete bullshlt.
Maybe the other brands are getting worried that Subaru is starting to take to many sales away from them and paid off JD P&A for this blasphamy :furious: :furious: :furious:

They should park people in the mountains after a good snow storm and do a survey for "brand appeal" then.

It would be interesting if they'd done surveys on specific regions. I guarantee Subaru would have gotten a higher ranking from the Colorado area.

The JD Powers is a survey. The results come from purchasers of new cars. These individuals receive these packets containing six pages of generic questions. I would venture to say that 100% of the individuals that come and participate to this form are car enthusiast. Car enthusiasts are a different sort of people than "Joe Public." When you are out on the road look around, what percentage of the driving public are enthusiast. Most folks on the road know what disk brakes are, but they do not know the difference between a single piston caliper or a duel piston caliper. The folks that fill out and send in those survey's do not know jack about driving. They can boast, "this car is safe it has ABS brakes", but the ABS system on their vehicle is crap. Eventually they will run into the back of someone because the brakes would not stop them quick enough and they did not have the common sense to try and turn to avoid hitting the vehicle in front of them. The results from these surveys are only as good as the folks that fill them out. When I see that Pontiac GTO receives top honors. I know a great deal of the individuals that purchased these vehicle returned the survey.

They should park people in the mountains after a good snow storm and do a survey for "brand appeal" then.

It would be interesting if they'd done surveys on specific regions. I guarantee Subaru would have gotten a higher ranking from the Colorado area.
I couldn't agree more!

Yeah, I have a lot of respect for JD Power as a market research organization, but I wouldn't put much stake in their awards or surveys if I were in the market for a new car, for a couple of reasons:
1. They have so many different surveys regarding cars, including, as previously mentioned "Initial Quality", "Customer Satisfaction", and this new "Appeal" one. The only one that would be really relevant (to me, anyway), when buying a new car would be "Long-Term satisfaction/reliability". IIRC, Subaru tends to do well on these.
2. As mentioned, JD Power relies on people returning surveys, AFAIK. This makes their results almost worthless if you're trying to do comparisons across brands (particularly across segments). If they randomly called people up to ask about their cars, that would be a different story.

I've never known or seen any lesbian Subaru drivers but I have seen lots of hippie, granola people in them. That didn't stop me from buying a WRX. I agree that if you are comfortable with who you are, it wouldn't stop you from buying a car that you secretly would like to give a chance. Maybe that guy's wife should set a precedent and be one of the first hot women(I'm assuming your wife is hot dude) to drive a Subaru and break the stereotype. That said, I seem to recall awhile back that Subaru at one time embarked on a marketing push to the gay community, which may account for that stereotype. I met lots of hot chicks at Nopi who drove WRX's and they were straight 'cause I shagged them all! JK.

P.S. J.D. Power sucks a big fat one! :furious:

Other than FoMoCo, who else makes a mass production full-size car?... And remember, the Magnum is a 'truck' built on a midsize sedan chassis.
Toyota. I definitely see more Avalons than Mauraders, Crown Vics, or Marquis combined.


-Matt

Forget about the rating guys...
Just THINK for a second how to conduct their survey, and think about how a normal person would associate when they hear the word "Subaru". I bet you'll hear: "Oh that Australian guy", or "Crocodile Dundie?", or "Soup what?" Everybody who isn't into cars can distinguish a BMW or a Mercedes among the other cars on the road, that's how successful their brand image is. The rating is by no means a measure for your car's performance, or whether it's a great buy or not. :)

Forget about the rating guys...
Just THINK for a second how to conduct their survey, and think about how a normal person would associate when they hear the word "Subaru". I bet you'll hear: "Oh that Australian guy", or "Crocodile Dundie?", or "Soup what?"Eejit. The Subaru results came exclusively from people who actually bought Subarus.

That's a first for the Baja. :banana:


It might also be an "only" and a "last" for the Baja. :lol: ;)

you know the survey is total crap - volvo s40 gets best midsize luxury? it's classified as a compact kthnx.

JD Power focuses on "initial" quality and "how do you feel about your car" surveys. If you want long term, look at the CU reports and you will see a whole different story.

Interesting that the sports car with probably the most loyal following, very high "would buy one again" ratings and high resale - the Corvette - is missing from this list. Equally, if the only Subie they scored high was the Baja, they are deeply screwed up. This is a car I do not see on the roads here, which are awash with Outbacks of various flavors.

The lesbian thing came from a comment from Subaru's ad agency that they were targeting that group with Impreza and Forester marketing efforts at one time - I think it was about a year ago that this was being discussed. Did not affect my wife's (very sane) decision to get a 2.5GT 5speed wagon, though.

In Canada the thieves rank the WRX #1!

i dunno... i used to think subaru = croc dundee who wants those dumb wagons...

then along came videogames, and the WRX. now i think pretty much all the subies rock. its amazing but people see my WRX and think it kicks ass...

and no they dont say that about my friends, hyndai or kia....

a kia? for godsakes!!! tiberon... what the f?

i knew america was going down hill

For another indication of how screwed up JD Power surveys can be just look at the fact that apparently Chevy diesel pickups are worse than Chevy gasoline pickups while GMC diesels are better than GMC gas powered trucks. Aren't the Chevy and GM trucks the same damn thing?

http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=20511

Interesting that the sports car with probably the most loyal following, very high "would buy one again" ratings and high resale - the Corvette - is missing from this list. Equally, if the only Subie they scored high was the Baja, they are deeply screwed up. This is a car I do not see on the roads here, which are awash with Outbacks of various flavors.


yeah, i think almost every corvette owner i have known will buy another or has multiple times. :huh: