Nuff said. That guy is a long term liability for Subaru. He has ABSOLUTELY no creativity AT ALL! Would you call flipping an old worn out design upside down creative? I don't.

http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/1012004152951.jpg

I don't know how much longer I can drive Subarus if this is their goal. Eeekk :eek:

:rolleyes:

This is neither News OR Rumors...

Who says we should care? Simple solution: don't buy one.

I like it.

Me like too.

i say we dont need another thread on this topic on this forum, yeah!

I like it too, alot.

I think the Alfa Guy has got it pretty straight. ;)

Go Alpha Guy, Go Alpha Guy, It's yo birfday! :banana:
Stylin up Subarus like It's yo birfday! :disco:
Gonna bring in da brand image like It's yo birfday! :banana:
Gettin all kinds of ------s upset, 'cause It's yo birfday! :disco:

I think it looks ok, but I am worried about Subaru adopting that front end onto all cars they make - ala Pontiac....

I think it looks ok, but I am worried about Subaru adopting that front end onto all cars they make - ala Pontiac....

Or BMW, or Audi, or VW, or Chevrolet, or Caddillac, or Mercedes-Benz, or Chrysler, or Dodge, or any other brand that sells well.. we wouldn't want Subaru doing that, would we..

I thinks hes gotta go!

He turned the Impreza into a chick car.

Hire me instead! :lol:


-Mark
MAPmotors.com

Waaaah! Waaaah!

:lol:

The "alfa-style" neither makes me want to buy, nor makes me not want to buy.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to crucify him over designs for cars that have not been released.

:rolleyes:

I think it's perfectly acceptable to crucify him over designs for cars that have not been released.

:rolleyes:


I'm more of a well-wisher, in that I don't wish him any specific harm.

Now all they need is someone from GM to do the interior.

If I was Subaru I would've ditched him long ago. Why is it every concept car that comes out his arse looks the same? That triangle thingy drives me nuts!

He needs to take a bong hit or trip on some LSD, or anything to get him out of the design rut.

May GOD help us all if that traingle makes it to ALL of Subarus.

Why is it every concept car that comes out his arse looks the same? That triangle thingy drives me nuts!Hey good eye. The WX-01 looks a lot like the B9SC. Not. And Zapatinas must have faxed that design over from Italy, where he was working at the time the WX-01 was put on display.

My vote goes to getting rid of RightTighty, instead.

RightyTighty is simply a man of strong strong convictions. No matter how wrong his convictions might be, he'll stick to them......he should go into politics!

If I was Subaru I would've ditched him long ago. Why is it every concept car that comes out his arse looks the same? That triangle thingy drives me nuts!

He needs to take a bong hit or trip on some LSD, or anything to get him out of the design rut.

May GOD help us all if that traingle makes it to ALL of Subarus.
You mean all one of them? As far as I know, the only car designed by Zapatinas himself is the B9 Scrambler. The B11 and R1 were done before he even signed on.

My interest for Subaru halted after their 02 lineup.. but that's just me..

Nuff said. That guy is a long term liability for Subaru. He has ABSOLUTELY no creativity AT ALL! Would you call flipping an old worn out design upside down creative? I don't.

http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/1012004152951.jpg

I don't know how much longer I can drive Subarus if this is their goal. Eeekk :eek:

Not sure but that picture is MUCH MUCH better than the previous alfa design's...Looks like they took much of the emphasis OFF the grill area, which to me was 100% alfa... Either way it looks 10x better than previous alfa style designs....Keep tweakin, we're almost there !!!

He has ABSOLUTELY no creativity AT ALL! Would you call flipping an old worn out design upside down creative? I don't.



You got a better design solution for the next impreza? post it.

another thought, sometimes its not the designer at fault, but the folks higher on the corporate ladder who demand to recieve what they ask for, because they know they're right.

the legacy is a good looking car, but its too generic. slap a mazda or acura badge on it and the general public could percive it as either. subaru execs want a 'brand identy' and they're getting it.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to crucify him over designs for cars that have not been released.

:rolleyes:

well this is what the production version of the R1 will look like...

http://www.carview.co.jp/tms/2004/car/photo/subaru/r1_care/01.jpg

i hate the new grill....and why does Subaru think that every car in there line up needs to have the same exact grill???

RIghtyTighty is right...the grill is GROSS!!!!

The two piece headlights are even worse. Bleh!

-Brian

It's starting to really grow on me. Taking the front end in with the rest of the car it actually looks pretty good.

All they need to do is bring back the gc8 look with a modern flare.

...and why does Subaru think that every car in there line up needs to have the same exact grill???

For the exact same reasons Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, etc., all do. Instant brand identity—which is cruicial as you go up market.

Bob

The two piece headlights are even worse. Bleh!

-Brian
Ignore the bottom lights, they're driving lights.

Driving lights should be mounted above the bumper.. fogs below the bumper.

well this is what the production version of the R1 will look like...

http://www.carview.co.jp/tms/2004/car/photo/subaru/r1_care/01.jpg

i hate the new grill....and why does Subaru think that every car in there line up needs to have the same exact grill???

i don't know what the r1 is, but i think i am about to be sick. They have the grill like that so the salesmen can tell u it looks like propelor wings because subaru engines are used in aeroplanes.... well i'm just saying this cuz the salesman at the dealer the otherday was pointing out how the front of the legacy looked like a propelor for that reason.

something about the front end of that new impreza design reminds me of the celica, not shure why, i'm not that familiar w/ the celica, but somehow it just does.

*note*
/me don't give ah f' about spellling, so save it.

*edit* if there was no badge on the r1 i would most definetly have to guese it was a suzuki.

The new front end design, if it turns out to be "real", will absolutely stop me from buying another Subaru. While I am not a design guru, I could not live with an ugly design - and there are a lot of them around these days posing as "corporate" themes. Think how Audi, who have done a really good job up to now, have put that "single giant tooth" grille out. Not to mention the "mangled by Bangle" bimmers, or the CTS, which looks like it was styled with a chain saw. Even the motoring press, always worried about their advertsing $$$, call these designs "controversial" - if they were not selling ads to these companies, the adjective would be "ugly".
Rule #1 if you are trying to sell a product - any product - don't start off with an approach that turns off a substantial percentage of your possible customers. Honda and Toyota tend their successful vehicles to bland styling for a very good reason - bland does not turn potential customers off. If Subaru wants to grow, it needs to learn that lesson fast.

I love how everyone is an expert at what Subaru should do. Debate and opinion are fun, but try to maintain a little humility. After all, Subaru has a business to run and they are going to make decisions based on that business.

The R1 is real and I'm sure that we'll see similar visual styling cues in future Subaru models. So, let's wait and see what happens. Could be that what makes it into the final design will be better that you think.

Admit it people, this is how Subaru will look in the future.

Pigs on wheels...pigs on wheels...


-Mark
MAPmotors.com

He's definitely gotta go

He's a loser... and has to go.

Hire the Pinnifarina studio who create awesome works!

I said it before, and I'll say it again:

I like it.

Lights, grill, the whole thing looks nice.

Now Subaru just needs to make adjustable seat bolsters. My 1986 Mustang had adjustable seat bolsters, I don't see why Subaru's can't.

Nuff said. That guy is a long term liability for Subaru. He has ABSOLUTELY no creativity AT ALL! Would you call flipping an old worn out design upside down creative? I don't.

http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/1012004152951.jpg

I don't know how much longer I can drive Subarus if this is their goal. Eeekk :eek:
Why is it that you think the grille design is an upside-down Alfa grille? You couldn't be more wrong. Look and learn, n00b: ;) :D

http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/Literature/brochures/1974-a.jpg


It's NOT AN ALFA GRILLE! Get off your soapbox! There's nothing you can do to alter the production schedule now, so just shut yer traps and wait to see what a finished car looks like. The new Legacy shows their design direction, it's not like Zapatinas has total unfettered creative control here. Let the man work and let's see what he does. He sculpted some amazing sheet metal for Alfa based on their pre-existing corporate image, let's see what he can do for Subaru given their pre-existing designs to work from.

^ Ouch... :lol:

... but it's true!

Good point Porter,
I honestly don't mind the grill, it has a mean Peugot look to it, (Peugot's, although crappy in reliability do look good). My one complaint are the lower position lights - make those air intakes and I think it looks really good. Combine that, with a good engine and interior and hey, I'm sold on it.

Most everybody loves pre-Bangle BMW styling, right? Well, just to jog your memories a bit, check this old BMW-Isetta out.

http://www.cqql.net/bmw.htm

If BMW can become a design legend after this car, I think it's safe to say, so can Subaru. Nuff said...

Bob

great post porter!

Why is it that you think the grille design is an upside-down Alfa grille? You couldn't be more wrong. Look and learn, n00b: ;) :D

http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/Literature/brochures/1974-a.jpg


It's NOT AN ALFA GRILLE! Get off your soapbox! There's nothing you can do to alter the production schedule now, so just shut yer traps and wait to see what a finished car looks like. The new Legacy shows their design direction, it's not like Zapatinas has total unfettered creative control here. Let the man work and let's see what he does. He sculpted some amazing sheet metal for Alfa based on their pre-existing corporate image, let's see what he can do for Subaru given their pre-existing designs to work from.


You said it ;)

Most everybody loves pre-Bangle BMW styling, right? Well, just to jog your memories a bit, check this old BMW-Isetta out.

http://www.cqql.net/bmw.htm

If BMW can become a design legend after this car, I think it's safe to say, so can Subaru. Nuff said...

Bob


Hey! Isettas are cool! :mad: :D

Also, dont forget that the Isetta is from the same era as one of the most beautiful cars (let alone BMWs) ever, the 507:

http://www.bmwworld.com/pics/vintage/0301_832.jpg
http://www.bmwworld.com/pics/vintage/6117_832.jpg

We now return you to endless speculation and bickering.

The Isetta was not actually a BMW designed product, but a product of the Italian ISO corporation, which made among other things, refrigerators and washers. BMW (as well as many other companies, built it under license)

Subaru has a lot to lose with every redesign, being the small company that they are, and I expect them to use restraint and common sense with the next generation Impreza as well as the rest of their lineup.

BTW: The grille of the Subaru in that picture looks like every other sport-edition Japanese small car of the time, most namely the mid-70's Corolla and Datsun B210? (not sure about the name)

BTW: The grille of the Subaru in that picture looks like every other sport-edition Japanese small car of the time, most namely the mid-70's Corolla and Datsun B210? (not sure about the name)
You mean you can't see the WRX influence in this grille?
http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/Literature/brochures/1971-star-b.jpg

Come on man, they've been doing Subaru retro for a few years now. Hell, take a look at the original R2:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/Literature/brochures/subaru-r2.jpg

I concur- that Star looks so much like a GD9 from the front it's almost scary :D

Back to the main thread- I'll save my bitching until they release the Halifax or the next Impreza, but I have enough confidence in Subaru that they will execute good judgement with their upcoming designs. Or else, it's back to Toyota for me :D



You mean you can't see the WRX influence in this grille?
http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/Literature/brochures/1971-star-b.jpg

Come on man, they've been doing Subaru retro for a few years now. Hell, take a look at the original R2:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/Literature/brochures/subaru-r2.jpg

You would stop buying a Subaru because you don't like the grill?

You're going to be sitting inside, who cares what the grill looks like.

Please forgive me for wanting to spend my money on a vehicle which I find attractive.

There are many excellent cars aside from Subaru out there, and if push comes to shove with the design, I won't have any regrets if the LGT I ordered is my first and last Subaru.

I really don't feel any loyalty to any one marque, I just want a product that suits my needs, and I'm confident that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

You would stop buying a Subaru because you don't like the grill?

You're going to be sitting inside, who cares what the grill looks like.

...you might not have any regrets if it's your last Subaru, but Subaru should care. We'll see when it surfaces. As to Alfa's "sculpted" designs recently, most were done by outside design houses, not Alfa themselves. Personally, I think they should have given the job to whoever did the current Legacy - best looking car they have produced since the SVX - which was unfortunately spoiled by its very bizarre door windows. I looked seriously at buying one at the time, but the windows were the deal killer. Just shows - avant garde design does not sell.

Just shows - avant garde design does not sell.

Ah, excuse me... Have you been to a Nissan dealer lately? The very avant garde Murano (whether you like it or not) has been a HUGE hit.

Bob

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/64243/1.jpg

i give up now...
subaru will be ugly no matter what...

I guess it wouldn't be a Subaru if it didn't look funny.

Most Subaru loyalists would be like :eek: :huh: if Subaru actually put out a normal looking car.

I think the ricer 2f2f crowd who like overly designed exteriors have taken over too much of what Subaru has been in the past.

Subaru used to be a family car company with low-profile designs. Then the WRX brought over all of the 2f2f crowd (most of which are into making lowered AWD cars).

Seeing as how Subaru gained a large demographic of young 2f2f buyers in recent years, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sti ended up looking like that. In the end it all about money right?

I still say it doesn't matter what it looks like. The Bug eyed Impreza was a huge step in car design for Subaru. Almost everyone stopped looked at it and said YUK!

But it grows on you and now I really like it too.

If the new lights are like that just for looks then it isn't too great, but if they add function, ie they work better, then I'm all for it.

The Triangle grill thingy is alright by me. I think the grill is the weakest part of the entire Subaru line. Most people see me coming but don't have a clue what i'm driving. I even get Honda people waving at me. Although she may have just wanted to wave anyway. :)

If it is safer, faster, quicker and more exciting to drive, I don't care what it looks like.

Most people see me coming but don't have a clue what i'm driving.

BINGO! Now maybe some here might understand why Subaru is doing what they're doing.

Bob

Alfa ROmeo is NOT that bad.. Check this out..

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1647835

Memo to Subaru: Being different for the sake of being different isn't always a good idea.

http://www.nrk.no/img/339554.jpeg



BINGO! Now maybe some here might understand why Subaru is doing what they're doing.

Bob

ohmigod, that alfa dropdown grill is freaking hideous...
Dont know why people think it is nice looking...
Everything else about the car is great except for that godawful grill.

Alfa ROmeo is NOT that bad.. Check this out..

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1647835

That may not necessarily be the final design. After all, the company is surely going to hear lots of "first impression" feedback and make additional changes to it. I just hope the final cut would be a lot better than now.

Memo to Subaru: Being different for the sake of being different isn't always a good idea.

http://www.nrk.no/img/339554.jpeg

For every ugly example you find, I can find good examples of "being different." Let's start with the '53 Studebaker coupe, perhaps one of the finest examples of US auto design of any decade, or perhaps the original Jag XKE. These too old for you to remember? OK, how about the currant Nissan Murano or 350Z? All these cars, in their respective eras, were considered radical designs, and are now highly coveted by those who know and understand automotive design.

Bob

I dunno. If the next Impreza looks like that design in the first post, I'd probably leave Subaru and go elsewhere, short of some crazy performance for a low price. I really like how the Volvo V70R and V50 look; those provide WRX-ish performance levels, AWD, safety, a wagon-body and look good to me. I mean, I drive a bug-eye Impreza now, and I think it looks alright, but the main reason I bought it was because there really wasn't a comparable vehicle in my price range (AWD and wagon body was important!). By the time I am able to buy a new car, I'll have a significantly higher budget, and thus more choice.. and I don't think I'll settle for a bizzarely styled car.

People who buy Subarus exclusively based on the way they look aren't real enthusiasts anyway.

Buh-bye bandwagon!

People who buy Subarus exclusively based on the way they look aren't real enthusiasts anyway.

Buh-bye bandwagon!


not to mention they're incredibly shallow! :lol:

thats right, i went there. ;)

Honestly, I like the design, and the more times I see it in these types of forums the more I like it. I can't wait to get one (well, that won't be until I run my 04 rex into the ground, so that'll hopefully be in 8 years, after I finish grad school and residency). When the new 7 series first came out, I hated it, it just looked like an overweight ugly ass tub of lard, but now, that it's been around for a while, I think it looks tight as hell.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In our family - car nuts all - we have had for many years "our" annual automotive award which goes to the ugliest vehicle out there. We call it the "Mobile Crusher Award" because you should just position a crusher at the end of the production line for some vehicles, then we would not have to look at them, but the guys who screw them together should not suffer for management's failings.

Past winners - Chevy Caprice, the last Buick Skylark, the one that looked like it had a join line around the middle, Isuzu Vehicross, various Renaults and Fiats, which thankfully did not make it across the Atlantic, and the current pick(s), the Cadillac CTS and XLR - the last one looks like the crate GM ships Corvettes in.

As to the Murano, it's not hugely successful - the Tahoe, or the Explorer or the Expedition or Suburban - they are hugely successful. The Murano is a niche player, and to my eye has an unbalanced look about it. The Maxima and the Altima are nicely done, but the 350Z looks less balanced that the old 300Z. As to the example of the XK E - that was a derivative design - a lengthened version of its predecessor, the XK SS. What was radical about the E for its day (1961), was value for money. A 150mph, all disk braked superbly handling car for a price many people could afford.

As to the Murano, it's not hugely successful

It has met or exceeded all Nissan sales projections. That means, by anyone's reasonable definition, very—if not—HUGELY successful.

Bob

It has met or exceeded all Nissan sales projections. That means, by anyone's reasonable definition, very—if not—HUGELY successful.

BobCongratualations, rsholland, on learning how to insert em dashes into your posts. :)

Your post is very timely. Today's NY Times carried an article devoted Nissan's new design offensive. It's at http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/25/automobiles/25CARS.html (free registration required) but, unfortunately, it doesn't carry any of the grill photos that were part of today's print edition (back page of the sports section). The focus of the flattering article is Mr. Shiro Nakamura, hired as Nissan's design chief 5 years ago from Isuzu, and Nissan's new design vocabulary. Mr. Nakamura even admits to a "mistake," the interior of the Quest.

By all accounts the Murano is both a styling and commercial success.

http://www.nissannews.com./

Year-to-date sales, as of the end of September 2004, Nissan has sold 42,827 Muranos, which is up 3.9% from the same period last year. Not too shabby, I would say...

Bob

http://www.nissannews.com./

Year-to-date sales, as of the end of September 2004, Nissan has sold 42,827 Muranos, which is up 3.9% from the same period last year. Not too shabby, I would say...

BobI'm confident that FHI would be very, very pleased (and surprised) to sell 42,000 copies of their 7-pax (Halifax) next year.

Comparing the Zap Grille to a Jaguar XK-E is pure blasphemy... where's a good gallows when you need one? :lol:

I don't think a Zapatinas Subaru will ever become "highly coveted by those who know and understand automotive design" except maybe to park one between an Aztek and the Fiat Multipla in a future Design Disaster auto museum. BTW, you left out the Chrysler Airflow, which is probably the best example of avant-garde design and the predecessor of modern automobiles, released around the time you were in high school....

It's not just a matter of "being different," it's a matter of good design. Take the new Legacy for example- conservative, but classy and attracting many new Subaru fans worldwide.





For every ugly example you find, I can find good examples of "being different." Let's start with the '53 Studebaker coupe, perhaps one of the finest examples of US auto design of any decade, or perhaps the original Jag XKE. These too old for you to remember? OK, how about the currant Nissan Murano or 350Z? All these cars, in their respective eras, were considered radical designs, and are now highly coveted by those who know and understand automotive design.

Bob

I'm sure all the "real enthusiasts" will keep Subaru afloat while they alienate everybody else with their new designs...

People who buy Subarus exclusively based on the way they look aren't real enthusiasts anyway.

Buh-bye bandwagon!

Pleads to Subaru, please use this grille, this will remove a certain element from the Subaru community....

PS: also please consult the so many non design educated about how your car should look.

thanks

Comparing the Zap Grille to a Jaguar XK-E is pure blasphemy... where's a good gallows when you need one? :lol:

I don't think a Zapatinas Subaru will ever become "highly coveted by those who know and understand automotive design" except maybe to park one between an Aztek and the Fiat Multipla in a future Design Disaster auto museum. BTW, you left out the Chrysler Airflow, which is probably the best example of avant-garde design and the predecessor of modern automobiles, released around the time you were in high school....

It's not just a matter of "being different," it's a matter of good design. Take the new Legacy for example- conservative, but classy and attracting many new Subaru fans worldwide.

I've spent over 30 years trying to be a "good" (graphic) designer and over 10 years as a college-level design educator, so I think I understand "good" design, thank you very much.

Bob

I'm sure all the "real enthusiasts" will keep Subaru afloat while they alienate everybody else with their new designs...
Well, we've been doing exactly that for the last 30 years. I can't imagine why we'd stop now.

I hope for your sake that Subaru decides to start making cars with built-in grammar checkers.

I seem to have struck a nerve with many, seeing the amount of childish "you're so shallow" posts and quite frankly, I don't care. I'll buy whatever car I damn want, thank you very much.


Pleads to Subaru, please use this grille, this will remove a certain element from the Subaru community....

PS: also please consult the so many non design educated about how your car should look.

thanks

We are talking about cars here, please explain to me how that makes your opinion worth more than anyone else's here.

A Subaru will always sell to anyone at this forum and I'm sure you understand that with Subaru's new ambitions to become 'premium', that Subaru has to design cars that will appeal to the buyers of their competition. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a graphic designer to understand that.


I've spent over 30 years trying to be a "good" (graphic) designer and over 10 years as a college-level design educator, so I think I understand "good" design, thank you very much.

Bob

I'm sure all the "real enthusiasts" will keep Subaru afloat while they alienate everybody else with their new designs...

Well, since it seems like you're quoting everyone, let me add this...

The real enthusiasts do not have a legal bond to keep Subaru afloat. The fact of reality is that the real enthusiasts are the ones who want Subaru to do better; even if it means criticizing their designs.

I, for one, am a real enthusiast. And as an admirer of Subaru, I'm entitled to criticize their design because I've invested in them. At the end, money talks!!! If Subaru can't keep their 'loyal' customers, then they can't stay 'loyal' if Subaru continues to give people the shaft!

Unless you're a masoquist :p

Well, since it seems like you're quoting everyone, let me add this...

The real enthusiasts do not have a legal bond to keep Subaru afloat. The fact of reality is that the real enthusiasts are the ones who want Subaru to do better; even if it means criticizing their designs.

I, for one, am a real enthusiast. And as an admirer of Subaru, I'm entitled to criticize their design because I've invested in them. At the end, money talks!!! If Subaru can't keep their 'loyal' customers, then they can't stay 'loyal' if Subaru continues to give people the shaft!

Unless you're a masoquist :p

And the Big Tree speaks for me as well.

Subaru is losing its lock on the AWD market (its biggest selling point in most regions where it does well), and if it wants to grow as its various memos and press kits state, then it will have to broaden its appeal, not diminish it.

And though aesthetics are largely subjective, I don't see anyone championing the Aztek as a styling coup de grace--everyone seems to agree its pretty damn ugly.

Should Subaru make a similar mistake on one of their "cash cow" vehicles, it will hurt their future business plans even if some minority of rabid Subaru fans snap them up.

We, as enthusiasts, may like to think Subaru cares about our input and our support of their product, but let's be realistic: Subaru is a corporation that seeks profits, and if it alienates 30,000 fans to pick up 35,000 new customers instead, the +5,000 is worth it to them. They won't sacrifice sales to keep "loyal" fans if it's not in their best interest to do so. Given the new marketplace, loyalty is not a big enough influence on design.

And, as for the enthusiasts, if Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan or Honda/Acura came out with a truly stellar AWD system in a package that looked and performed better than any Subaru with better reliability, fit & finish, all for a roughly equal price, most would jump ship and buy it. Somewhere along the line people found Subaru and liked what was offered, and if they find something else that's better, most will switch.

And Subaru and all the other manufacturers know that--which is why the AWD market is heating up.

The question is, how well will Subaru fare against all the choices out there?

Styling will play a larger role than some would like to think, as most of the mainstream aren't enthusiasts and therefore don't notice anything but how it looks--so a miscue by Zap could sink an otherwise great product.

I don't think a Zapatinas Subaru will ever become "highly coveted by those who know and understand automotive design" except maybe to park one between an Aztek and the Fiat Multipla in a future Design Disaster auto museum.I notice the Aztek outsold the Subaru Legacy in both 2002 and 2003. So the Aztek is either not as ugly as you think or it doesn't matter.

If anyone shows up at a Pontiac dealer, the deals they can get on an Aztec are pretty darned good. Of course you than have to look at it every day, and worse, have others laugh at you - and it has no resale value. Subaru's current "defensible" niche is AWD, "neat and tidy" styling which does not offend, value for money and reliability - and they don't need to give rebates to get people to buy their cars.

In short, Subaru has a lot strengths - it needs to build on them, and get them to a larger audience, not run off and try to be something it is not (remember the SVX?) - that way leads inevitably to alienating the (very enthusiastic) base of current owners. I know a number of non auto enthusiast Subaru owners who (99%) have Outbacks - everyone of them say they will replace their current vehicle with another one the same. Those are the people Subaru needs to look after.

RE Nissan - they had to grow market share or go out of business because they could not compete and were losing money by the boatload - hence the Renault buyout. Exceeding modest expectations is nothing much to shout about - but they do have one real success on their hands - the current Altima.

THE example of bad design costing you customers was Ford and the 3rd generation "oval" Taurus. From being a contender for the sedan market leader (and being #1 at least one year) with the Gen 1 and 2 Tauruses (Tauri?), they tanked - why? Because the Gen 3 was too "out there" for their customer base.

We are talking about cars here, please explain to me how that makes your opinion worth more than anyone else's here.

A Subaru will always sell to anyone at this forum and I'm sure you understand that with Subaru's new ambitions to become 'premium', that Subaru has to design cars that will appeal to the buyers of their competition. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a graphic designer to understand that.

No, my opinion is no more or no less valuable than anyone else's opinion, and I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you on this topic. I will say this however, I've been earning my living off design for longer than you've been on this planet. Hell, my children are older than you...

Bob

These 'subjective' threads are fun. What's next...

Blue Is Better
Why Country Music Is Bad For America
You're An Idiot If You Buy A Car With Fog Light Covers

:lol:

You would stop buying a Subaru because you don't like the grill?

You're going to be sitting inside, who cares what the grill looks like.
I hope the alfa design cues get scrubbed, The grille is ugly and to me it does matter how a cars exterior looks. If Subaru releases an ugly car why would I want to buy it? I didn't get a rex for that reason.

Subaru did a great job with the styling on the GC/GM/GF Impreza, why can't they do it again?

When it comes to buying a car, everyone's voice is the same. Training in design does not make you a better judge necessarily. Let's face it, cars any of us would consider ugly did not get designed by the customer, but by the design studios, presumably by professionals, but sometimes you wonder.

When I was getting started as an automotive engineer many years back, one of the senior designers wanted to make sure I did not get too big headed about it so this was his advice: "Remember, the Titanic was built by professionals; Noah was an amateur".

When it comes to buying a car, everyone's voice is the same. Training in design does not make you a better judge necessarily. Let's face it, cars any of us would consider ugly did not get designed by the customer, but by the design studios, presumably by professionals, but sometimes you wonder.

When I was getting started as an automotive engineer many years back, one of the senior designers wanted to make sure I did not get too big headed about it so this was his advice: "Remember, the Titanic was built by professionals; Noah was an amateur".

Well put. :)

Bob

The Ark never rammed into a gargantuan iceberg though.


:D


(But that is a really good quote.)

I don't get it, the Titantic was a disaster and the ark, if there was an ark, was a savior.

Nice quote.

Some designers suffer from the "Emperor's new clothes" syndrome where they refuse to see the design for what it really is, a hideous design.
They are all cooped up in their little world and forget that people in the real life buy those products and people do not necessarily like "interesting designs". Interesting != good in the case of the alfa designer.




When I was getting started as an automotive engineer many years back, one of the senior designers wanted to make sure I did not get too big headed about it so this was his advice: "Remember, the Titanic was built by professionals; Noah was an amateur".

Quote: "I don't get it, the Titantic was a disaster and the ark, if there was an ark, was a savior"

Exactly - the professionals are not always right - the amateur may well be the one who makes the break through.

Marketing 1.01: Listen to your customers, not your "inside professionals". The customer spends the money, is the most important component of your business and really does know best - although many companies forget this simple formula for success. Those who really get this one are always successful. Those companies who get caught up in their own illusions of greatness (or sadly, in many cases, illusions of competence) are the ones who go to the wall.

Nice quote.

Some designers suffer from the "Emperor's new clothes" syndrome where they refuse to see the design for what it really is, a hideous design.
They are all cooped up in their little world and forget that people in the real life buy those products and people do not necessarily like "interesting designs". Interesting != good in the case of the alfa designer.

this very rarely happens. as we've seen, subaru has been holding focus groups on thier 7 passenger suv, I'm sure they're listening.

you could design the coolest vehicle the world has ever seen, but if management and the company execs dont see it your way, it may never see the light of day. if they have a style direction in mind, they will get the results they want. i still belive this is the cause of the current subaru concept styling trend.

Didn't listen to me, I think this Subaru SUV idea is the dumbest thing they could do.

a company changes design direction, they risk losing some customers. Subaru knows this. They're betting, however, that they will gain far more customers than they lose.

People here seem to think that Subaru's fortunes hang solely on those who participate in Subaru car forums like NASIOC, and that NASIOC (et al) member's are going to determine as to whether the "brand" will succeed or not. Not so. There's a whole world out there who could care less about what people here say.

Many here have criticized Subaru for even offering a 7-passenger crossover. Do you think Subaru cares what you think regarding this vehicle? They know you're not the target audience, so they're not even trying to please the critics here. This vehicle is designed to bring in new Subaru customers. People, who for one reason or another, never have considered buying a Subaru before. Sure, current Subie owners are also on their radar screen, but most likely most of them don't hang out in forums like this.

Trying to predict Subaru's success/failure based on a narrow selection of posts found here is risky at best. That's not to say NASIOC, et al, aren't important. They are—for certain things, such as the "soul and character" of the car. Does anyone here seriously think the next Impreza will be any less fun to drive, if it has a Zapatinas-designed grille?

Bob

I think people here get so caught up on the design like if Subaru is the only thing out there for them to get. Like Bob said, Subaru won't please everybody, and if they risk losing 3,000 to gain 5,000 consumers; then guess what - Subaru will gladly take the 2,000 gain.

It's good to discuss and criticize design but honestly when people make comments like they're not getting any money from me, it's kinda lame. IF you don't like the design, well, that's why there are others out there. But I also understand the cost factor, AWD, practicality and so on.

But just like everything else, these designs are not even official. So before you go get your panties twisted, remember that a good thing can come out of all this. And like everything else, judgement will occur when you see it in person not on paper ;)

']I notice the Aztek outsold the Subaru Legacy in both 2002 and 2003. So the Aztek is either not as ugly as you think or it doesn't matter.

I'm betting: Fleet Vehicle Sales.

I have only ever seen a Subaru rental in Colorado, but every GM-friendly rental agency has Azteks up the wazoo, not to mention the fleets of Program Car Azteks etc.

And like everything else, judgement will occur when you see it in person not on paper ;)

That is soooooo true. For some reason, Subarus always look better in person than they do in pictures.

Bob

That is soooooo true. For some reason, Subarus always look better in person than they do in pictures.

Bob

Very true! I thought the first USDM sti was ugly in pics. Once I saw it in person it was one of the coolest and most intense cars I've ever seen.

As an Alfa enthusiast (I sell Alfa parts for a living), I thought I'd weigh in here and perhaps add a little perspective.

Zapatinas cold certainly do better by the Subaru brand by creating something new. I am not saying his current Subaru work is terrible, I just don't think it fits the brand.

The Alfa Romeo "grille" that has caused so much controversy has gradually evolved throughout the years, but has remained a constant on nearly every Alfa model.

From 1910-WWII, Alfas were expensive (think Bugatti prices) handbuilt cars, usually delivered as rolling chassis to the coachbuilder, who would then craft a body for the customer. These included such famous builders as Touring (Superleggera) and Zagato. This era also saw Alfa dominate in racing, with their racing team mananged by Enzo Ferrari. The grille shape varied wildly during this period, from upright and squared off to laid back, graceful, and flowing.

Directly after WWII, Alfa took a giant leap "downmarket" in an effort to survive. The did this with the 1900 model, followed by the Giulietta and Giulia series. The Giulietta set a precedent that was followed through the Giulia series and beyond - the coupes were styled by Bertone and the convertibles by PininFarina. This period saw the standardization of the grille shape that would serve Alfa through the 1980s.

In 1986/87 Alfa Romeo was purchased by FIAT and a new era of design - mostly "in-house", began. This is the period of Alfa's history that Zapatinas fits into. Some would argue it's hasn't been Alfa's most glorious, although the last few years have seen some truly elegant designs (such as the 8C Competizione prototype) and a revival of their relationships with Bertone and PininFarina. I see many of the designs from this period as the simple application of styling cues from the past to current models - which is a direction the industry in general has followed.

So, where does this leave Subaru? What element of it's past, or new trademark from its present can they develop a brand identity from? I don't know, I just think they can do better than what Zapatinas has provided so far with the front end treatment.

Joe

I've seen Subaru rental cars in Hawaii and in Seattle.
Rented a new Forester when it first came out on Maui.
They also had Outbacks as well.
Also saw a Legacy rental car in Seattle.

I'm betting: Fleet Vehicle Sales.

I have only ever seen a Subaru rental in Colorado, but every GM-friendly rental agency has Azteks up the wazoo, not to mention the fleets of Program Car Azteks etc.

The Zapatinis grille is no more Alfa, than it is Bugatti, or Jaguar (XK120 – 150, S-type), or BMW.

What it is, is a grille treatment with a strong "central focus," like those I listed above. So it's unlike 99% of the cars out there (including current Subarus) that stress a horizontal look. Yes, the B11S and R2 hint somewhat of Alfa because of the pointed shape. The B9SC or R1/R1e don't because the center portion of the grille is not pointed, but much more rectangular in shape.

Bob

i say we give up on the demand of better look...
subaru will eat its own medicine when they insisted on saling these ulgy cars...
so please stop these don't like the look discussions...
unless you can give a better design to subaru...

subaru will eat its own medicine when they insisted on saling these ulgy cars...Here's a clue ... Subaru doesn't sell boats, or any other "saling" item.

Subaru crossovers, the Tribeca, Forester, Outback & Baja (if it survives), will get the more rectangular center grille as shown on the R1/R1e and B9SC.

The Impreza and Legacy (eventually) will get the more pointed grille as seen on the the R2 and latest WRC racer Photoshop images seen here.

This is just a gut feeling with nothing concrete to base it on. I just think Subaru will use both grille shapes, and will use them to help define model groups, such as "crossovers" vs. "cars."

Mercedes has been doing this for years. All their sports cars, trucks and SUVs use a huge 3-pointed star as the focal point in the grille, whereas their sedans use a much more formal small cross-hatch grille pattern, with the 3-pointed star only as a very small accent at the top. I think Subaru will attempt to do something similar with their marketing of these new vehicles; two slightly different grille shapes that define the two different main categories of Subaru vehicles.

Bob

For every ugly example you find, I can find good examples of "being different." Let's start with the '53 Studebaker coupe, perhaps one of the finest examples of US auto design of any decade, or perhaps the original Jag XKE.

I know I've made this point to Bob before, but I see this:

http://www.drivesubaru.com/Win04/Feature/B9ScramblerCover_T37_02.jpg

and it reminds me of this turned upside down:

http://www.collectablecars.co.nz/img/gallery/stude_60_1.jpg

:)

Ed

I know I've made this point to Bob before, but I see this:

http://www.drivesubaru.com/Win04/Feature/B9ScramblerCover_T37_02.jpg

and it reminds me of this turned upside down:

http://www.collectablecars.co.nz/img/gallery/stude_60_1.jpg

:)

Ed

Yep, the late 50's Golden/Silver Hawk Studebakers are another excellent example of this look. In fact, this example is perhaps the best anti-Alfa-copycat argument yet presented. Thanks Ed.

Bob

']Here's a clue ... Subaru doesn't sell boats, or any other "saling" item.

:lol: :lol: :eek: :banana:

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

:furious:
what so funny...?
you guys agree we should stop this kind of discussion too...? :lol:
unless you can come up a better design and accepted by subaru... :p

The current Legacy is an infinitely better look than the "by Studebaker out of Alfa" approach. Subaru should build on it, tweak the Impreza range to have a family likeness, then build a "Legacy coupe". And no, I don't mean another SVX, I mean something that has clear family ties to the sedans the way the Honda Accord coupe or the Toyota Solara tie into their sedans.

Take it up market a little - not too much, nav, quieter, H6/auto or 2.5GT 5 speed, leather, upmarket audio, etc. That way they could get some people to believe that they should spend more than $30k for a Subie - right now, no one does. Hence the statement from the sales guy when I bought the GT - the whole range is selling well, except the Outback H6 - too expensive for a Subaru

And he is right. Once you get north of $30k, you have to go nose to nose with the A4, the 3 series, the C class and the Jag X type, to name a few that are also available with AWD in the $30k plus range. And they have strong name recognition and snob appeal. Subaru had the chance once before with the SVX, and they blew it due to the bizarre windows, no advertising and price out of the market's accepted price bracket for Subarus. They won't have too many more shots to get it right. Building ersatz Alfas won't help them. Alfa dropped out of the US market for a reason - they could not sell the cars. Same reason Studebaker went bust.

The need to go upmarket with what were perceived in the US as "cheap" brands at the time was what drove Honda and Toyota to invent new brands to cut the ties with Civics and Corollas. Maybe FHI needs to do the same thing.

The current Legacy is an infinitely better look than the "by Studebaker out of Alfa" approach. Subaru should build on it, tweak the Impreza range to have a family likeness, then build a "Legacy coupe". And no, I don't mean another SVX, I mean something that has clear family ties to the sedans the way the Honda Accord coupe or the Toyota Solara tie into their sedans.

Take it up market a little - not too much, nav, quieter, H6/auto or 2.5GT 5 speed, leather, upmarket audio, etc. That way they could get some people to believe that they should spend more than $30k for a Subie - right now, no one does. Hence the statement from the sales guy when I bought the GT - the whole range is selling well, except the Outback H6 - too expensive for a Subaru

And he is right. Once you get north of $30k, you have to go nose to nose with the A4, the 3 series, the C class and the Jag X type, to name a few that are also available with AWD in the $30k plus range. And they have strong name recognition and snob appeal. Subaru had the chance once before with the SVX, and they blew it due to the bizarre windows, no advertising and price out of the market's accepted price bracket for Subarus. They won't have too many more shots to get it right. Building ersatz Alfas won't help them. Alfa dropped out of the US market for a reason - they could not sell the cars. Same reason Studebaker went bust.

The need to go upmarket with what were perceived in the US as "cheap" brands at the time was what drove Honda and Toyota to invent new brands to cut the ties with Civics and Corollas. Maybe FHI needs to do the same thing.

I thought Studebaker went out because their vehicles were too reliable and lasted too long (just what I heard). Ever wonder why old BMW Mecedes Volvo ,etc went from making cars that last flawlesly for 600,000+ miles, to cars that break considerably under 100k miles? You can't make much money in the long run if you never sell replacement parts and your customers buy a car once every 20 years.

Henry Ford put it best. He said something along the lines of "If I could have a monopoly on replacment parts, I would give my new cars away for free"

Nope. Studebaker could not compete, pure and simple. They and Packard (another dying company) merged, but it did no good - Ford and GM (especially) were just moving too quickly and Studebaker/Packard were left behind. The Avanti was the last great hope, but it failed. It even failed when it was reincarnated with Chevy power. BMW, M-B et al were never that reliable, with the possible exceptions of the older M-B diesels. I know, I lived in Europe for years, ran a vehicle fleet as part of "other duties" and had first hand experience. Fact is as vehicles generally have got more complex, the likeliihood of failure has gone up. But the need for mechanical service and "tune ups" has gone way down. The Gernam companies, especially have had quality slip as they have added "gizmos" - that's why M-B is no better than Chevy these days.

Okay, maybe it's not called for but since I'm probably the only NASIOCer who owns both a Subaru and a Studebaker, I feel compelled to offer some clarification on the latter's demise. I'll try to be as brief as I can and give the Cliffs Notes version.

Pre-WWII:

Paid large dividends to shareholders rather than reinvesting in updated manufacturing equipment

Failed attempt to acquire truck company White

Ill-advised acquisition of luxury auto company Pierce-Arrow

Failed attempts to introduce low-priced models (Erskine and Rockne, named for Notre Dame football coach Knute). Company went into receviership in 1933, came out in 1938-39.

WWII: Built three major products: license-built Wright Cyclone aircraft engines; the "Weasel", a tracked amphibious personnel carrier using a passenger car engine; and heavy 6x4 and 6x6 trucks, mainly Lend-Leased to the USSR and British Empire. Failed to capitalize on good reputation of trucks in the postwar market, focusing almost exclusively on cars. (Check out a Stude pickup if you can; elegant in its simplicity, style and ease of maintenance and repair.)

Post-WWII:

Tooled up to build all-new models for 1947 - could've kept selling warmed-over 1942/46 models in seller's market

STILL paid large dividends to shareholders and failed to reinvest profits in manufacturing equipment

Weak stances against a too-strong UAW local

Small dealer network

1953: Those beautiful '53 2-doors had quality problems - thin-gauge frames that flexed and rusted; flex problem fixed but not until quality reputation damaged; rust problem never entirely fixed. Sedan versions of '53 coupes/hardtops didn't carry the same elegant proportions and not well received; Big Three flooded the market and offered deep discounts (economies of scale issue).

Failure to carry out due diligence in merger with Packard

Failure of proposed merger with Hudson-Nash (a/k/a American Motors) due to resistance by AMC's George Romney

Diversification into other businesses (e.g. STP, Onan generators, Gravely tractors)

Self-fulfilling prophecy: if enough people believe you're going out of business, eventually you will

I'm biased and hindsight is 20:20, but my Studebaker was no worse a product in terms of build quality than its contemporary competitors (e.g. Ford Falcon, Chevy Corvair, Pontiac Tempest, Rambler American) - but again, by the time it was built (fall 1962) the self-fulfilling prophecy was well under way and the company would close its US plant within a year and cease operations in a little over 3 years.

I'm sure that's a lot more than you ever wanted to know about the end of Studebaker. If you care, or at least want a good automotive history read, see Thomas Bonsall's book "More Than They Promised" for the details.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled topic... :)

Ed

Now you all know why his handle is "lark6." :)

Bob

Sorry, I didn't mean to kill the thread. :confused:

Ed

i saw this on another forum i go on... i had the same reaction tho... looks like an alfa romeo

Please forgive me for wanting to spend my money on a vehicle which I find attractive.

There are many excellent cars aside from Subaru out there, and if push comes to shove with the design, I won't have any regrets if the LGT I ordered is my first and last Subaru.

I really don't feel any loyalty to any one marque, I just want a product that suits my needs, and I'm confident that I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Looks is only part of the larger picture. If you can find another Car like the legacy that is AWD includes the same amount of amenities and still only costs 24-26k starting I would like to see it. Because there isn't any. If you don't care about AWD then that puts you in a different car altogether..

The unfortunate fact of the matter is that AWD isn't as big a factor for quite a large margin of buyers as many here may think. Most non-enthusiast people I talk to don't know much if anything about AWD and many don't care. Yes, AWD may have been a prerequisite with many of us, but if another platform offered the right equipment and with our desired looks, I'm sure many of us would be elsewhere. I understand the NASIOC and Subaru enthusiast community really doesn't mean much for Subaru, but for the performance market, this community does have a fairly good handle on what is desired for future performance models.

Personally I'm not much for this new airplane style Subaru is desiring, but I wouldn't entirely base it on Zapatinas, I think a decent portion of it has to do with management considering what he has designed and what was brought out before him. Would be interesting to see what he'd do with the reigns fully off of him. Although I'd have to admit I wasn't the biggest fan of Bangles new designs I have quickly warmed up to them and REALLY like them, especially the new M5/M6. :)

i give up now...
subaru will be ugly no matter what...
Ha! That's what I said before I bought my WRX!! I was waiting for Subaru to make a non-ugly car, but that's just not what they're about. If you want a purty car, buy an infiniti. The last cool looking subies were the SVX and the XT, but they were ugly too.

'Pretty' doesn't always scream "look at me i'm a cool car and i go fast and i'm made well and i will start everyday and i will haul all your junk rain or shine and i will take your abuse and i will respond to modifications and i will be comfortable and i will make you want to buy another car like me when i'm worn out and tired", but 'Subaru' does. So if you don't want an ugly subaru, don't buy a subaru. (Legacy GT's excluded, they are f'in smooth lookin)

Ha! That's what I said before I bought my WRX!! I was waiting for Subaru to make a non-ugly car, but that's just not what they're about. If you want a purty car, buy an infiniti. The last cool looking subies were the SVX and the XT, but they were ugly too.

'Pretty' doesn't always scream "look at me i'm a cool car and i go fast and i'm made well and i will start everyday and i will haul all your junk rain or shine and i will take your abuse and i will respond to modifications and i will be comfortable and i will make you want to buy another car like me when i'm worn out and tired", but 'Subaru' does. So if you don't want an ugly subaru, don't buy a subaru. (Legacy GT's excluded, they are f'in smooth lookin)

Though you have to admit, it would be nice if the car didn't stick out like a sore thumb - I don't care if it's a work of art, I just want a plain, mediocre looking vehicle that does not offend the eye. Heck, a boxy old-school Volvo look would be fine...

i hate the alfa look....

i hate the alfa look....
What alfa look? Please, elaborate.

By the time I'm planning to replace my Legacy, there probably will be a good amount of AWD sport sedans to choose from in that price range.

Looks might not mean everything to you, but as for me, I couldn't spend my money on a car which I personally find unattractive.



Looks is only part of the larger picture. If you can find another Car like the legacy that is AWD includes the same amount of amenities and still only costs 24-26k starting I would like to see it. Because there isn't any. If you don't care about AWD then that puts you in a different car altogether..

Though you have to admit, it would be nice if the car didn't stick out like a sore thumb - I don't care if it's a work of art, I just want a plain, mediocre looking vehicle that does not offend the eye. Heck, a boxy old-school Volvo look would be fine...
I agree bob, and that's why I got my Legacy, looks nice and smooth, but not flashy, has the right gear standard, and goes like a bat out of hell when I want it to.

Japanese boards are filled with "OMG" "are you kidding with that pig nose" comments now. Japanese are hoping the smaller version of their cross-over will NOT look like that, although some insiders are saying Subaru corporate has put the 2 year freeze on smaller cross-over development for Japanese market. This is actually a disturbing development for a company trying to move up market.

Like someone said, Zep is fine, it's the old school Japanese executives whose objectives are mainly to hold onto what they (think) they have achieved. It wasn't the designers needed - it was the top execs that needed to be outsourced. As much as I hate to see Subaru going down, there is no stopping - Subaru is losing the domestic market share rapidly, and this will accelorate it, in my opinion.

I am sorry if this has been stated before, but I don't think Subaru is dumb enough to put an engine vent in front of the hood scoop.

What alfa look? Please, elaborate.

i dislike the center circular shaped grill. i like a rectangular grill like the one imprezas have now.

Subaru is going the Way of Pontiac. Pontiac cars are horrible Trash. I agree, this Alpha Romeo guy must go.

Subaru is going the Way of Pontiac. Pontiac cars are horrible Trash. I agree, this Alpha Romeo guy must go.

I think you're putting the blame on the wrong person. He's done nothing but make excellent looking concepts that tastefully incorporate all the demands of the Subaru execs (such as a winged grille). Then the production cars look nothing like the concepts.

In any case, maybe these mis-steps are just growing pains - who knows. Or maybe it's the beginning of the downfall of Subaru. Either way, Subaru should really re-think it's corporate organization, because someone or something is not working right. They have the elements of a great car company - solid engineering, unique characteristics (boxer engine, AWD, although the latter is becoming less unique), and a world-class designer. But somehow the elements just don't work together properly.

I agree bob, and that's why I got my Legacy, looks nice and smooth, but not flashy, has the right gear standard, and goes like a bat out of hell when I want it to.
I don't mind a car that stands out, the legacy is a head turner too, but b/c it is fast lookin and smooth, the WRX reaches out and slaps you in the face. Luckily it smacks you in the A$$ as it goes by too!! Hence my subaru exception for the legacy. It's hot.

i dislike the center circular shaped grill. i like a rectangular grill like the one imprezas have now.
The circular shaped grille you refer to has NOTHING to do with Alfa Romeo.

Also, the current grille is trapezoidal, not rectangular.

My opinion...

i rather see the grill from either the

Subaru R2 Custom

http://www.subaru.co.jp/r2/custom/imgs/top.jpg

or

Subaru 2005 Legacy Blitzen Concept

http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/imgs/special/link05_over.gif

ditto on the blitzen... it retains the same... wide to narrow into the grill "shape" but it doesnt look like an anteater or aardvark.... seriously!
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/4076/anteater.jpg
http://www.carview.co.jp/tms/2004/car/photo/subaru/r1_care/01.jpg
eeew so fugly...

subaru needs a design that looks good on all of its cars, sets them apart(as a brand), and doesnt turn off a large group of people. *cough* bugeyes *cough*, imo, this isnt it because it does neither of the first and last.., at least for me..

The circular shaped grille you refer to has NOTHING to do with Alfa Romeo.

Also, the current grille is trapezoidal, not rectangular.

looks like one.

It looks like one too.

looks like one.

It looks like one too.
I'm sure you also think that Mercedes uses Neon headlights. They're both round, after all.

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/64243/1.jpg

Whoa, look at the schnozz on that thing. Is it real?

I'm sure you also think that Mercedes uses Neon headlights. They're both round, after all.

lol, man, you are really confused...

just because i think they look like each other means i think they are the exact same parts! way to go captain smartguy!

lol, man, you are really confused...

just because i think they look like each other means i think they are the exact same parts! way to go captain smartguy!
I think he means they're both round... like your comparison of the grilles.

try again, he thinks a minute difference in shape, but still resembling something, makes them absolutely nothing alike. That grill looks like a gay alfa grill, nuff said (for the slower out there, keyword: like)

http://www.autoinfo.gov.cn:1656/internet/html/qczh/image/2003flkf/Alfa%20GT1.jpg
http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/1012004152951.jpg
http://www.carview.co.jp/tms/2004/car/photo/subaru/r1_care/01.jpg

it is the same style skinny nose with a v shape in the hood, and vents next to the center grill.

Congratulations captain design squad! Could you possibly be any more irritating with your ridiculous rhetoric? Please, tone it down a little.

kthxbye

Besides, we could only hope for something this secksay:

http://www.alfaromeo.com/ALFAROMEO_COM/uploads/1051/1073794253/20041124/8cfoto_1_b.jpg

i dont know how irritating, maybe as much as thinking lookalikes have nothing alike
rofl***uglygrillkthnxbyhi2u2brohamttyl!
btw that secksi car would be like 20x6 times better without the grille, imo

i dont know how irritating, maybe as much as thinking lookalikes have nothing alike
rofl***uglygrillkthnxbyhi2u2brohamttyl!
btw that secksi car would be like 20x6 times better without the grille, imo

???

I think people are just tired of hearing it called an "Alpha Romeo grille" simply because it shares a similar divided-in-three layout with a verticle center portion. The point has been made, many, many times. Enough is enough.

If anyone doesnt like what they see, feel free to post up your own ideas.

RightyTighty is simply a man of strong strong convictions. No matter how wrong his convictions might be, he'll stick to them......he should go into politics!

:lol: He'd go far!

I like the look of it, I'll like it even more when they release the specs of the STi version.

As long as I can school people on the road course I only have to look at the gauges, they have to look at my grille and my back bumper! :p ,
so what do I care?

IBaretheygonnascrewuswiththatplasticishintheengine bay,rotatedturbo,impossibletoinstallfmic,etc???

bottom line, haters please brush up your design resume's if you can do so much better. I drive a WRX because of the performance. I'm not a fan of the bugeye that I have, but it scoots. So I'm happy.


Steve

BTW...that Celica

well it looks like the toyota dudes were, well looking at a picture of an Enzo a little too long. Kind of like the way the designers of the S7 looked at the McClaren F1 for inspiration.


Steve

and for those who have seen the vehicle in person, the opinion is clearly very positive. I'm talking about what I have read in other forums. Yeah, there are still those out there who have not warmed up to it, and who may never like it. I'm especially happy to hear comments from those who don't frequent car forums (average Subaru customers, not gearheads). They seem to be totally unaffected by the styling. They either like it, or it at least it doesn't seem to bother them. It almost seems like a non-issue, as they more concerned about the vehicle in general and its features.

Bob

I was hoping you didn't come in here... hopefully you didn't just give this thread CPR and revive the beast who died... :p

But on your note, yes, it's grown on me and I have yet to see it in person. I've always been conservative to speak on design, except for the bugeyes; but I did stand by my word when I actually saw it in person ;)

I was hoping you didn't come in here... hopefully you didn't just give this thread CPR and revive the beast who died... :p

But on your note, yes, it's grown on me and I have yet to see it in person. I've always been conservative to speak on design, except for the bugeyes; but I did stand by my word when I actually saw it in person ;)

Oops! It wasn't my intention to rub salt in to an open wound. Sorry. :)

Bob

well I like this design better then all the rest of them that have been on here