raamaudio
10-19-2004, 09:05 PM
I posted this earlier today in response to another thread but figured it may help out more people in a new thread so here it is again. This is not an endorsement or advertisement, just trying to help with understanding how to reach your goals, no matter what brand name you go with:)
"Being in the sound deadening business and a very serious prior audio competitor(future one as well) I have tried just about everything known to man to not only combat road noise, wind noise, reflected acoustical energy, etc. I use many techniques and materials in the projects I take on and each has their particular or compounding benenfit to the end goal.
1) mass loading where needed but with a catch, (in reference to a post saying the aluminum is not of any use or something along that line)the aluminum film also acts to stiffen the area applied to help move the resonate freq of the panels it is applied to and more effectively than a non backed product. The results are quite dramatic when used in multiple layers in key areas like right behind speakers on the outer door skin( I generally use three layers there around 10" or so sq, whatever fits best)
2) Out of dozens of foam, carpet padding, "jute"(improperly used term 99.99% of the time) type materials the best one I have found and by far for the cost is Ensolite. 1/8" thick is plenty for just about all areas and allows for easy fitment of panels, carpets, etc. If more is needed then a second layer can be used in a few key areas.
3) Double sided foam glazing tape, not the same as anything off the shelf and only available in large size rolls. I use this for speaker gaskets, keeping panels from vibrating, etc. Regular foam tape can be ok in some areas but not is as many.
4) Silicone sealer, I use glazing silicone that can hold very large windows in place with just one bead but most commercial products are fine.
5) Tie wraps, lots of them, I go over ever cable and connector in a car, they get tied down, together, foam taped, siliconed, etc, etc, until they cannot resonate period.
6) Expanding foam, can be used to build forms for molding fiberglass enclosures, racks and probably ok for the use listed in this thread. I personally use a very costly 2 part product designed to fill voids and absorb all moisture in the area while curring and does not over expand or leave deadly voids that can trap condensation and rust out your car. I have a can of some less costly material I will be testing sometime in the future and if it works out will carry it but only if absolutely satisfied it is safe and effective to use. I highly recommend to never use generic foams in A pillars, rocker panels, etc, etc as it can warp panels, I personally know of a $10k repair bill on a $30k car that had 50 miles on it and insurance did not pay for it.
7) The only used I have for "pillow stuffing" in a vehicle is a bit inside the lower A pillars when I build kick panels, I vent them into the pillars and put a bit of stuffing in there. Other than that, no benifit and in some cases bad news, seen it used inside doors, etc, where it absorbs and holds moisture, sure way to get some rust growing there.
9) Special circumstances like my autocross/audio comp install. I bonded 1/32" aluminum channels to the inside of the outer door skins, roof, hatch and rear quarter panels the used a minimal amount of mat and ensolite inside the doors. I glued a layer of ensolite to the underside of the headliner and another onto the roof of the car(it is very lite in weight) I used perforated aluminum to cover the access holes in the doors(I do this on all installs). And I cut out and replaced the rear floor with aluminum honeycomb as needed more room for audio gear and still had exceptional strength and less prone to resonate. I also removed all stock sound deadening on the floors and bonded 1/4" aluminum honey comb to them then matted with a thin layer and covered the entire floor of the car with ensolite. The underside of the dash was moderately mated then covered with ensolite as well. The entire interior was totally striped and put back one piece at a time, every wire, cable, connector, etc, was treated as needed to prevent even the slightest chance of causing noise. Approx 200 hours of effort, everything was weighed, total weight gain was under 30 lbs for a world class audio competition sound deadening treatment(my truck was nearly 200 lbs but I did not race it
9) SPECIFIC RATTLES, etc, I use a test CD that plays individual test tones and step through every frequency at low volume, then mid then high volume. This is the best way possible to find specific problem areas, then I attack them with whatever is best suited to fix the issue.
I spent 300 hours on my Tacoma, 5 or so years later and nearly 100k miles, still like a rock Now I would do it in around 100 hours but the normal full out install to a level that would be far more than adequate I put in around 25 hours on customers cars(the few I do every year).
For those looking to do the least amount of work for the best results, you can achieve a great deal in a weekend."
Rick
"Being in the sound deadening business and a very serious prior audio competitor(future one as well) I have tried just about everything known to man to not only combat road noise, wind noise, reflected acoustical energy, etc. I use many techniques and materials in the projects I take on and each has their particular or compounding benenfit to the end goal.
1) mass loading where needed but with a catch, (in reference to a post saying the aluminum is not of any use or something along that line)the aluminum film also acts to stiffen the area applied to help move the resonate freq of the panels it is applied to and more effectively than a non backed product. The results are quite dramatic when used in multiple layers in key areas like right behind speakers on the outer door skin( I generally use three layers there around 10" or so sq, whatever fits best)
2) Out of dozens of foam, carpet padding, "jute"(improperly used term 99.99% of the time) type materials the best one I have found and by far for the cost is Ensolite. 1/8" thick is plenty for just about all areas and allows for easy fitment of panels, carpets, etc. If more is needed then a second layer can be used in a few key areas.
3) Double sided foam glazing tape, not the same as anything off the shelf and only available in large size rolls. I use this for speaker gaskets, keeping panels from vibrating, etc. Regular foam tape can be ok in some areas but not is as many.
4) Silicone sealer, I use glazing silicone that can hold very large windows in place with just one bead but most commercial products are fine.
5) Tie wraps, lots of them, I go over ever cable and connector in a car, they get tied down, together, foam taped, siliconed, etc, etc, until they cannot resonate period.
6) Expanding foam, can be used to build forms for molding fiberglass enclosures, racks and probably ok for the use listed in this thread. I personally use a very costly 2 part product designed to fill voids and absorb all moisture in the area while curring and does not over expand or leave deadly voids that can trap condensation and rust out your car. I have a can of some less costly material I will be testing sometime in the future and if it works out will carry it but only if absolutely satisfied it is safe and effective to use. I highly recommend to never use generic foams in A pillars, rocker panels, etc, etc as it can warp panels, I personally know of a $10k repair bill on a $30k car that had 50 miles on it and insurance did not pay for it.
7) The only used I have for "pillow stuffing" in a vehicle is a bit inside the lower A pillars when I build kick panels, I vent them into the pillars and put a bit of stuffing in there. Other than that, no benifit and in some cases bad news, seen it used inside doors, etc, where it absorbs and holds moisture, sure way to get some rust growing there.
9) Special circumstances like my autocross/audio comp install. I bonded 1/32" aluminum channels to the inside of the outer door skins, roof, hatch and rear quarter panels the used a minimal amount of mat and ensolite inside the doors. I glued a layer of ensolite to the underside of the headliner and another onto the roof of the car(it is very lite in weight) I used perforated aluminum to cover the access holes in the doors(I do this on all installs). And I cut out and replaced the rear floor with aluminum honeycomb as needed more room for audio gear and still had exceptional strength and less prone to resonate. I also removed all stock sound deadening on the floors and bonded 1/4" aluminum honey comb to them then matted with a thin layer and covered the entire floor of the car with ensolite. The underside of the dash was moderately mated then covered with ensolite as well. The entire interior was totally striped and put back one piece at a time, every wire, cable, connector, etc, was treated as needed to prevent even the slightest chance of causing noise. Approx 200 hours of effort, everything was weighed, total weight gain was under 30 lbs for a world class audio competition sound deadening treatment(my truck was nearly 200 lbs but I did not race it
9) SPECIFIC RATTLES, etc, I use a test CD that plays individual test tones and step through every frequency at low volume, then mid then high volume. This is the best way possible to find specific problem areas, then I attack them with whatever is best suited to fix the issue.
I spent 300 hours on my Tacoma, 5 or so years later and nearly 100k miles, still like a rock Now I would do it in around 100 hours but the normal full out install to a level that would be far more than adequate I put in around 25 hours on customers cars(the few I do every year).
For those looking to do the least amount of work for the best results, you can achieve a great deal in a weekend."
Rick