I am running modded injectors, utec, typical vf30 car w/ fmic. I was tuned about a month ago, fmic was slightly leaking, and had an exhaust leak and possible bad coilpack at the time. The car ran great after the tune, I didn't notice an idle problem really. A few weeks later after fixing the hardware issues, my car is running crazy timing at idle and the usual drops past idle coming to a stop(doesn't stall). I also idle a bit high on cold starts(1500rpm) and very rough. I'm am very confident its not a vaccum leak(checked 5million times), on the stock boost gauge, my vaccum flucuates from .055-.065, its right insink w/ the timing at idle. Basically I just wanted to get some insight on what people think of my idle.

694 -9.4 1.3 0 00 00 14.8 +14.8 1.3 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
734 -9.4 1.3 0 00 00 14.9 +11.7 1.4 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
763 -9.1 1.3 0 00 00 15.0 +8.4 1.2 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
743 -9.4 1.3 0 00 00 14.9 +8.8 1.5 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
737 -9.4 1.3 0 00 00 14.7 +11.0 0.9 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
703 -9.6 1.3 0 00 00 14.5 +16.6 1.4 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
715 -9.6 1.3 0 00 00 14.3 +15.8 0.9 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
729 -9.6 1.3 0 00 00 14.2 +13.9 0.9 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
730 -9.6 1.2 0 00 00 14.6 +12.1 1.3 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
728 -9.6 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +12.6 0.9 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
682 -9.6 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +16.6 1.3 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
674 -9.6 1.3 0 00 00 14.6 +18.3 1.3 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
695 -9.4 1.3 0 00 00 14.5 +18.7 1.2 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
720 -9.1 1.3 0 00 00 14.6 +14.6 1.3 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
745 -9.1 1.3 0 00 00 14.8 +11.0 1.4 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
741 -9.1 1.2 0 00 00 15.0 +8.5 1.4 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
713 -9.1 1.3 0 00 00 14.9 +12.4 1.3 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
698 -9.4 1.3 0 00 00 14.8 +15.5 1.2 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
710 -9.4 1.3 0 00 00 14.7 +16.2 1.3 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
708 -9.4 1.3 0 00 00 14.6 +14.2 1.4 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
748 -9.4 1.3 0 00 00 14.7 +12.6 1.3 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
749 -9.1 1.2 0 00 00 15.0 +8.5 1.4 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
754 -9.4 1.2 0 00 00 14.8 +11.2 1.4 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
713 -9.4 1.2 0 00 00 14.6 +13.8 1.3 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
708 -9.6 1.3 0 00 00 14.4 +15.4 1.3 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
676 -9.6 1.3 0 00 00 14.1 +16.2 1.2 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2
706 -9.6 1.3 0 00 00 14.1 +16.9 1.3 ECU. +4.0 ECU. 1.2

hmm thats strange, i also idle like that on cold starts, it just spurts to 1500, then after 2 minutes lowers near the 1k mark....

what would be some good tips to rectify this?? dont know what the last owner was smoking, if something is wrong now..

it seems fine at everything else..

that log is a warm idle. Last time I checked, fuel trims were -.08 to -3. I'm just curious to why its so inconsistant, the afr doesn't want to level out at idle, its much more steady at part throttle. Btw, I have replaced o2 sensor, I also swapped an IAC from another car w/ new gasket-- no effect.

I class my idle as fine, it looks similar to yours

690 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +14.9 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
734 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +13.8 1.1 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
724 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.8 +15.3 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
720 -9.8 1.2 0 00 00 14.8 +13.4 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
694 -9.8 1.2 0 00 00 14.9 +12.9 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
729 -9.8 1.2 0 00 00 14.8 +13.2 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
728 -9.8 1.2 0 00 00 14.8 +13.5 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
728 -9.8 1.2 0 00 00 14.8 +13.0 1.4 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
710 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +12.8 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
704 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.8 +13.0 1.2 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
717 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +13.1 1.2 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
726 -9.8 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +13.2 1.7 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
733 -9.8 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +13.0 1.7 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
720 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +12.4 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
694 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +12.6 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
739 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +13.4 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
740 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +13.8 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
734 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +12.3 1.2 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
703 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +14.8 1.2 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
668 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.6 +14.8 1.2 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
714 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.6 +16.3 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
720 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.6 +14.1 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
736 -9.8 1.2 0 00 00 14.7 +10.3 1.2 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
717 -9.8 1.2 0 00 00 14.8 +13.1 1.4 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
701 -9.8 1.2 0 00 00 14.8 +12.9 1.4 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
721 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.9 +14.8 1.3 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
725 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.8 +14.3 1.4 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1
716 -10.0 1.2 0 00 00 14.8 +12.2 1.4 ECU. -6.5 ECU. 1.1

Mod'ed stock injectors flow loads of fuel, it's hard to get them to idle perfect. (These are pinks)

yours has a consistant range of +-3 degrees, mine is +-8, and you can def. feel it in the idle, it feels like ****. Its very inconsistant, it will idle smooth for 3-4seconds, then you feel a deep shake for 1-2 seconds. You can feel the timing jumps through the car, and see it in the vaccum. Also, mick look at your maf compared to mine.

Sharko - I'd say vac leak, but you ARE running modded stockers. They have a very hard time spitting an idle amount of fuel on a 2.0L engine. I STILL say double- and triple-check for vac-leaks. Do you have a propane tank around?

Do you have DeltaDash? You could check the fuel-trims, and graph them to see how jacked they are.

Other thing to ask - do you have any lightened components on your engine? Flywheel, clutch-set, pullys, under-drive? If you do, you might need to adjust your idle higher to get it to stabilize.

-Sean

Sharko - I'd say vac leak, but you ARE running modded stockers. They have a very hard time spitting an idle amount of fuel on a 2.0L engine. I STILL say double- and triple-check for vac-leaks. Do you have a propane tank around?

Do you have DeltaDash? You could check the fuel-trims, and graph them to see how jacked they are.

Other thing to ask - do you have any lightened components on your engine? Flywheel, clutch-set, pullys, under-drive? If you do, you might need to adjust your idle higher to get it to stabilize.

-Sean

I have literally been over everything vaccum connection by eye/hand atleast 40-50 times. I have tried start fluid, pinching, etc... I have not tried any official means of air leak testing, which I'm getting prepared to take it to someone and have that done. Besides the floating, those vaccum levels are normal, right? sometimes if I start the car on the stock map, it will idle normal, but then when it heats up it'll drive like ass on the stock map. Pulley's, clutch, flywheel, etc.. are all stock. I appreciate the input, keep it coming guys! I'm completely out of ideas before I take it to someone. I knwo its gonna be something really obvious. :rolleyes:

Well, your vacuum numbers at idle look kind of low to me - 9.1 warm, without the AC on, is very low. Even 9.4-6 would make me think of a leak.

I assume that you are getting no DTCs? You could try swapping front O2 sensors with a known-good piece. New ones are like $160 at cost, and a lot more retail, so I'd try swapping to a known one before buying one.

-Sean

How many miles are on the car? Have ya checked/changed your pcv valve recently?

peace

Well, your vacuum numbers at idle look kind of low to me - 9.1 warm, without the AC on, is very low. Even 9.4-6 would make me think of a leak.

I assume that you are getting no DTCs? You could try swapping front O2 sensors with a known-good piece. New ones are like $160 at cost, and a lot more retail, so I'd try swapping to a known one before buying one.

-Sean

Replaced front o2, pcv valve, fuel pump gasket, thermostat, oil, coolant, cleaned maf, replaced IAC gasket (tried swapping another IAC), replaced throttle body gasket, and a few other minor things. I guess I'll tear down the intake manifold again.

bump for ideas

For the last time, its your intake manifold.



You can't seal your intake manifold with RTV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :furious: :furious:

its not "sealed" with RTV, its not like a thick layer of in between, the thing is torqued down so most of it squeezes out or fills in mismatched surfaces. I actually added quite a bit more fuel into my 0% over the turboxs map, and it idles tons better now, timing is within 3degrees and maf is steady. Vaccum is almost perfectly steady now, but my part throttle cruising is now suffering. I think I need to ignore ST FT while tuning 0%. We'll so where it goes from here, thanks for everyone's advice.

its not "sealed" with RTV, its not like a thick layer of in between, the thing is torqued down so most of it squeezes out or fills in mismatched surfaces. I actually added quite a bit more fuel into my 0% over the turboxs map, and it idles tons better now, timing is within 3degrees and maf is steady. Vaccum is almost perfectly steady now, but my part throttle cruising is now suffering. I think I need to ignore ST FT while tuning 0%. We'll so where it goes from here, thanks for everyone's advice.



Well then. You're obviously right. now figure out why its not behaving correclty.

its not "sealed" with RTV, its not like a thick layer of in between, the thing is torqued down so most of it squeezes out or fills in mismatched surfaces. I actually added quite a bit more fuel into my 0% over the turboxs map, and it idles tons better now, timing is within 3degrees and maf is steady. Vaccum is almost perfectly steady now, but my part throttle cruising is now suffering. I think I need to ignore ST FT while tuning 0%. We'll so where it goes from here, thanks for everyone's advice.

That's easy, just pull fuel from the 0% col above idle. Don't think that you have to have the same value in that col all the way up. My map has something like +3 at 500, 750, 1000, then 0 all the way up from there. And your injectors flow at least as much as mine do.

-Sean

whats weird is my fuel trims were normal at idle before I added fuel. I have no idea what they are now.

well, the problem is back after driving about 100miles. How consistant are everyone's afr's at idle. None of my stats are constant, they all flow up and down a few points (afr, timing, maf). Maybe I just have to come to terms that it is a leak in the intake manifold somewhere. I really don't want to remove it though. I have no problems anywhere else except idle.


(my timing is still pretty consistant though)