Here is a DeltaDash log of a 2nd gear and partial 3rd gear pull while running the CA S1 base map with the stock real-time map. Tell me what you see. Anyone guess the IAM? I noticed some interesting behavior that I'll discuss later...

http://www.greenhydrant.com/albums/subaru-deltadash/DeltaLog_af424_7066_Tue_Nov_2_2004_20_24_54.png

I'm going to try to get some CA S1 real-time map pulls later this week as well.

Interesting things I noted while logging last night:

Even running on the stock real-time map, my IAM is only 13. However, by the end of the night, my IAM had dipped down to 9. The IAM in the pull above is 9.

However, overall the pull looks OK. I guess the CA base map tuning cobb is doing causes the ECU to pull back timing quite rapidly.

What is strange is that I never saw any negative knock correction under with any of the pulls I logged. I did two 5th gear "highway passing pulls" about 1 minute apart. First pull the IAM is 13, the next it is 9. They look very similar, but surprisingly the pull with the IAM at 9 has more overall timing? :confused: My only guess is that the KC stays higher with the lower IAM.

Pull 1, IAM=13:
http://www.greenhydrant.com/albums/subaru-deltadash/DeltaLog_af424_7066_Tue_Nov_2_2004_20_18_17.png

Pull 2, IAM=9 1 minute later:
http://www.greenhydrant.com/albums/subaru-deltadash/DeltaLog_af424_7066_Tue_Nov_2_2004_20_19_19.png

I'm not savvy with all the tuning lingo, but I'm curious, what exactly does all that mean regarding cobb's cali maps?? good, bad??

I'm not savvy with all the tuning lingo, but I'm curious, what exactly does all that mean regarding cobb's cali maps?? good, bad??Cobb's CA maps are supposed to be more aggressive in pulling timing when the ECU thinks it might knock than their normal maps. Evidently this is true given my logs above which don't seem to give many hints that the engine is that close to knock threshold. I would hope it's not anyway running the stock real-time map!

One more thing: Notice how I get a bit of overshoot with the boost pressures when the turbo first spools up. It peaks close to 15 psi then stabilises towards the stock 13.5.

OK, here's a 2nd and partial 3rd gear pull using the CA S1 real-time map. Same stretch of road as the first chart above, and very similar outside temps:

http://www.greenhydrant.com/albums/subaru-deltadash/DeltaLog_af424_7066_Wed_Nov_3_2004_21_16_49.png

Notes: IAM is still at 9 after 25 mild driving miles. Knock Correction is a bit lower with the S1 map than the stock map. Ignition timing seems to be more aggressive at lower RPMs, and more conservative at higher RPMs comparing stock and CA S1 real-time maps. I found this interesting because in the past I would most frequently hear knock right around 3k when boost when fully hit. No audible knock with any pulls I made tonight, though the KC seems to indicate that there was a bit.

You can download raw logs here:
http://www.greenhydrant.com/~drees/deltadash/
There are short descriptions of all logs along with the images here:
http://www.greenhydrant.com/gallery/subaru-deltadash

I'm going to try and get the descriptions of the logs up at the first URL, too.

Kooky. But then so is trying to understand the Subaru active ignition mechanism overall.

Timing as low as 10 degrees seems kinda low.

Do you ever get over 4.0v on the maf?

I haven't done any MAF logging (just to confirm this would be the Air Flow Sensor Voltage, right?) What would a reading above or below 4.0v MAF reading indicate?

Yes, Air Flow Sensor Voltage.

You're never gonna see 4.0.

Mass Air Flow / Air Flow Sensor Voltage

The rate of flow of air into the engine. Some ECUs report air flow voltage, whilst others report a calculated flow rate. The voltage from which the ecu calculates mass air flow is non-linear, with smaller changes in output voltage being seen for flow changes at high rates compared with low flow rates. It is from mass air flow that the ECU calculates engine load which has a big influence on ignition timing and fuelling.

Yes, Air Flow Sensor Voltage.

You're never gonna see 4.0.

just out of curiosity, what happens if the MAF voltage is over 4.0?

3.9v (I believe) is the highest the stock MAF sensor will report. If you see over 4v, it's time for a new MAF sensor to replace your broken one.

i thought it was higher than that? this link to ecuteks website concerning intakes shows reports of higher than 4.5v. my own car is over 4v at WOT with a vf34 swap.

You may be right. You'll have to ask someone else. I'm glad I threw in "(I believe)" now :)

i hope the max range is not 3.9v or i've got a big problem ;)

Yeah the MAF goes to 5.0v like many other sensors, but it gets less and less acurate the higher the voltage. You can get a rough idea of how much power someone is making from the amount of air the engine is sucking in. I thought the "engine load - charge air grams" was it but I could be wrong.

That's it. It shows g/sec.

no

~v6

engine load is measured in grams (g)

Wow, I'm 0 for 2.

The ECU had 2 days running the full CA Stage 1 maps to learn since my last logs. On the way home from work I pulled onto the freeway in 3rd gear and around 4k RPM heard that oh too familiar ping. Unfortunately, didn't have the laptop and Delta Dash with me.

Got home and hooked up the laptop and got these 2 logs of 2nd gear (yeah, I know 3rd would be better, but not safe around here, too much traffic). The IAM is now at 8. I suspect that it had advanced itself before I pulled onto the freeway earlier. KC takes a serious dip at 5k RPM, and timing takes a serious dip at 4k RPM. Interestingly, although the IAM is 8 instead of 9, the total timing appears to be about 1 degree higher? I am going on a road trip this weekend, I am going to try pulling the timing back 1 or 2 degrees manually using the DD. Anyone have any other stock or stage 1 DeltaDash plots/logs I can look at?
http://www.greenhydrant.com/albums/subaru-deltadash/DeltaLog_af424_7066_Fri_Nov_5_2004_19_23_13a.png http://www.greenhydrant.com/albums/subaru-deltadash/DeltaLog_af424_7066_Fri_Nov_5_2004_19_23_13b.png

can you post a mod list for your car?

since you're in California (so am I), where are you buying your gas? 76 has proven again and again to be the best bet. if 76, maybe let the tank run low and gas up at a different station...

since you have DD and an AccessPort, can you un-marry the accessport and log a few runs? I'm curious to see what the the IAM would be at with the ECU un-flashed.

Hey there,

One thing is for sure, your car is not running right. Just because you don't have any negative knock corrections, does not mean the car is running well. If you did see negative corrections you would have serious detonation.

An advance multiplier of 8 is terrible, it suggests that there is considerable long-term knock activity.

Knock learing in the 4-5% range is about 1/2 of what a well tuned car should give, particularly at the modest boost levels you are running.

I'd take it back to Cobb.

good luck,

Rafi
(Ecutek dealer/tuner)

Temps for all these pulls have been 60-65F. The last 2 tanks have been from 76. I have gotten similar behavior (audible ping) when using gas from other stations, so I'm not sure that's it, but this 76 station is the one I purchase gas from most frequently. I will occasionally buy gas from Costco or whatever other gas station happens to be the cheapest. I have been experiencing occasional audible ping over the past few months. Didn't notice any when I first got the AP Stage 1.

Only engine mod is Perrin IC hoses. Would think that this would increase det resistance, not decrease it. Car has 38k on it, fuel/air filter changed at 30k, running original plugs. Installed the AP shortly after the 30k service.

I probably won't un-marry the AP, but will try reflashing the stock base map and do more logging. I had flashed back to the stock base map a month ago, no audible ping then, car was smooth.

I agree that an IAM of 8 is not good. However, it has been suggested than an IAM of 12 is not abnormal with the crappy gas we get around here.

Instead of pulling the timing for the road trip this weekend, I will reflash the stock base map and see what the IAM gets to by the end of the weekend.

Thanks for the input everyone. I have also been posting all these logs/plogs over on Cobb's Forum (http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=001074) as well. Hopefully they will see them when they get back from SEMA.

-Dave

even an IAM of 12 is abnormal. i run a vf34, ecutek reflash, and a hell of a lot more boost and timing than that cobb map and have only seen an IAM of less than 16 once, and that was on bad gas. try flashing the stock base map and log a run or two. maybe even do a road dyno of each just for comparison.

OK guys, here's a few logs of the stock base/realtime maps.

The first one shows what happens when you do the "Vishnu learning trick" shortly after a fresh reset using the DeltaDash. I was on the freeway, so I hit 50% throttle which gave me 7psi for bit. The interesting thing I note is that as the IAM goes up, so does KC, and the Ignition Timing goes up by the same value as the KC.

This tells me that the IAM / KC relationship is a bit different than what I had thought before. It seems that the IAM value regulates the total amount of KC that the ECU is allowed to throw at it. Before I had thought that the IAM actually changed the base timing map. KC is directly related to the current Ignition Timing. A KC of 5 when the IAM is 8 and then IAM is 16 gives you the same result. The trick is knowing where the upper limit of KC is with each IAM so that you know how much KC the ECU may be pulling. :devil:
http://www.greenhydrant.com/~drees/deltadash/DeltaLog-af424-7066-Mon%20Nov%208%202004%2009-50.34.png

Here is what appears to be a healthy 2nd and partial 3rd gear pull. KC is 4.5+ throughout. IAM=16. No big dips.
http://www.greenhydrant.com/~drees/deltadash/DeltaLog-af424-7066-Mon%20Nov%208%202004%2021-27.09f.png

There are a few more logs here:
http://www.greenhydrant.com/~drees/deltadash/

A couple other things:

After driving 400+ miles this weekend after flashing the stock base/realtime maps, I came back and checked the IAM to find it at 9. My only guess as to why the IAM was still low is because I drove the entire trip very conservatively and rarely hit boost, giving the ECU few opportunities to try to advance timing, I will probably get close to 30mpg on the tank. My daily driving still is similar, which might explain why the IAM didn't get above 12. If you don't see a decent amount of time at partial-boost, will the IAM ever advance? As the ECU gathers data, does it take longer periods of partial-boost for it to start advancing the IAM?

Finally, even though I'm pretty sure I've heard some light ping during some of the logs I've posted above, KC never went to 0 or negative. Maybe I'm hearing something else, but the low overall KC and regressing IAM in some cases seems to indicate otherwise. I'll have to take some logs with fewer parameters to see if I can catch the knock sensor doing it's thing.