Has anyone done any WI setups with the Hydra (pardon me, the Element Tuning EMS :) ) as a base?

I haven't personally done it, but there are 8 programmable 2D PWM outputs and 3 3D PWM outputs on the unit, any of which could drive a water injection system.

http://www.hydraems.com/ems-index_files/image018.jpg

I haven't yet seem anyone using this wonderful hydra ECU to map WI etc, the potential is limitless.

Most third party ECU such as Utec, Xede etc has very limited PWM output for driving WI, most of these outputs were used by boost control etc. In time, the Hydra will be "the" ultimate controller" for the masses - it gives all the power to the user rather leaves a significant portion of control only accessible to the vendors or licenced tuner. It is only fair that the control should only belong to the user who paid for it in the first place.

I'm pretty sure Phil is working on both the launch control/flat foot shifting parts of the hydra, along with the water injection "stuff". There are multiple outputs as you said, and I'll definitely be using my hydra to control my methanol/water injection setup when the time comes.... which should be very soon.

I will have a WI setup tuned shortly with the Hydra, but I am using an aquamist FIA2, not the hydra to control the solenoid.

I'm pretty sure Phil is working on both the launch control/flat foot shifting parts of the hydra, along with the water injection "stuff". There are multiple outputs as you said, and I'll definitely be using my hydra to control my methanol/water injection setup when the time comes.... which should be very soon.

arent they doing an actual antilag setup too?

will it work with auto trans cars?

I know it will work with an auto car, I've seen settings in there about shift points and such... its really a very generalized system, you can run anything up to an 8 cyclinder with it.

Antilag is also in the program, that is correct.

when i read that i screamed as loud as i can YAHOOOO!!! (im not kidding) im getting it. utec in for sale forum allready, can you program shift points?

I'm pretty sure Phil is working on both the launch control/flat foot shifting parts of the hydra, along with the water injection "stuff". There are multiple outputs as you said, and I'll definitely be using my hydra to control my methanol/water injection setup when the time comes.... which should be very soon.

With so many PWM outputs, I wonder if there are enough to make up a 4-port sequential WI set up - that will be the ultimate WI setup. :D

im going to start stocking you phil im sorry. you sold me my utec when i needed a piggyback for my stage 2 and now that im older and wiser, and my car needs to get rid of that ****ing MAF (4 inch inlet) im going to go to you for the HYDRA... im giddy, i love it...

any down sides at all?

I will have a WI setup tuned shortly with the Hydra, but I am using an aquamist FIA2, not the hydra to control the solenoid.

I think this is a good idea, Hydra supply the mapping and the FIA2 look for "block jet" and "cut" hose.

Please do post some results.

any down sides at all?
Emissions, but with the 2.4 and a T62-1 you probably don't care about emissions. The STI looses cruise control but it still works on the WRX. I guess if you have an STI w/Hydra and really want CC you could buy a WRX cc system or some other generic CC system.

Emissions, but with the 2.4 and a T62-1 you probably don't care about emissions.
Why would the emissions from a car running a Hydra be significantly different than one running a stock ECU?

If you don't have OBD II. You won't pass emissions. I'm sure with cats and tuning you could pass the emissions sniffer test.

Oh, emissions testing. Yeah.

If you don't have OBD II. You won't pass emissions. I'm sure with cats and tuning you could pass the emissions sniffer test.

Isn't it just a matter of plugging back in the original ECU?

If you can get it to run well enough with your setup, sure. And if you have your stock ECU already reflashed for close to your mods, sure.

Perrin's Big MAF is critical for this to happen. I first regretted buying (since I'm gettting a hydra), but it is the only way for me to get inspected.

My car really doesn't run all that bad with the injectors, FMIC, turbo, intake, etc. Just stay off high boost (ie 10psi max)

when i read that i screamed as loud as i can YAHOOOO!!! (im not kidding) im getting it. utec in for sale forum allready, can you program shift points?

I'd download the software if I were you, and check it out. The software is at:

http://www.mrcontrols.com/downloads/nemesis12.zip

(its not the latest version, but it'll get you started).

The hydra for the wrx, as far as I know, is NOT setup to use the auto transmission stuff, but its definitely in the hydra. After you get the hydra software installed, go to menu 'select - outputs', and click on the 'PWM1' button. There should be a whole bunch of items on the lower part of that window, click on the 'ATX' button. On the right hand side at that point is all of the automatic transmission stuff.

So.... I know it will do it, but I'm not sure if its been done yet at least on a wrx.

Downsides of using the hydra? How much time do you want to put into tuning it? The actual tuning of the power band is the easiest part, no doubt about it. Which is why Phil is handling all of the setup stuff (cold start, hot start, idling, injector voltage compensation, etc....). Once all of that is done, its all downhill.

The only real downside I've seen is that I can't leave well enough alone and keep :disco: with the settings :lol:

I can state with absolute certainty that WI control is part of Element Hydra's functions. 3D map referencing boost, load, and RPM. I think there are 4 PWM auxillary outputs, and you could also use the unused cylinder outputs 5-8 and a FIA to control the high-speed valve of Aquamist or any other high speed solenoid.

One option that is not supported is to implement Auto-tune with WI, that is let the optimization algorithm reference knock and add water to reduce knock (but no more than is needed).

Does anyone know of a manual for the Hydra software? I have seen some of Phil's tuning guides, but I mean is there any generic information on things like what PWM1 stands for and all of the rest of the acronyms and so on?

offset

pulse width modulation = PWM

basically it sends a voltage pulse ........ like a heart beat. The frequency and duration of the pulse determines fuel squirts or water squirts--faster more fuel/water.

There is an excellent book on tuning engine management systems by Jeff Hartman. Here you go:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0760315825/qid=1099861445/sr=2-2/ref=pd_ka_b_2_2/103-6652553-3064646

There is no manual for the Hydra software that I know of. Some help files I think. Between the manual for Motec and the Hartman book you can learn alot not just about the Element Hydra, but all EM systems. The Element uses a newer version of the Hydra software that's only known source is Phil at Element Tuning. He ships on Tues.

i really like spending hour apon hour tuning my wrx, so obvoiusly tuning time is not an issue. its like making a masterpiece cake then feeding it to a chick you are triying to impress, its a double good thing. also i have special hookups as far as the emmissions test goes.. so that is one thing that im not concerned about. im sorry to jack this thread so we can stop talking baout my car now... thanks everyone for the help... im still trying to figure out weather or not my car will be able to shift when i plug this damn thing into my car... if anyone has some info on it then please PM me or post, but from what you said, darth, the WRX EMS is not setup to do auto, but the other ones are (for other cars) so im not sure if infact it will be able to work in my car... like for example, if it wont shift, or it wont see the ECU so it will go into limp mode. or if maybe everything will work well, or what? so any info will help, but i wont post on this thread anymore about my car, since its a nasioc crime, and is prosecutable to the fullest extent of the law.

Call Phil. No need to guess. http://www.elementtuning.com/

i will but the thing is its sunday and im so ****ING anxious to know all this stuff, its like waiting till christmas morning to open your presents... FUK!

I will eventually be doing a Hydra / WI setup on my RSt. A good option with the Hydra would be to use the Aux fuel and spark maps for fuel control under WI. You can have your aux maps triggered by anything such that if water ever kicked off for any reason (blocked jet circuit on Aquamist for example - or flow meter) The ecu would automatically refert back to the stardard fuel and spark maps.

Its obviously possible to run a PWM aqumist setup off an injector signal, but lets hope Phil and Hydra can figure out how to give us another 3D map for water control.

Just wondering what brand water/meth injection setups (if any) people are using??? I have an SMC injection kit and was wondering if this would still work if I went with the Hydra.

Anything will work - I have a ebay sureflow pump setup, and I use my hydra to control when the pump kicks on.

Anything will work - I have a ebay sureflow pump setup, and I use my hydra to control when the pump kicks on.
Cool... exactly what I needed to know :)

The Element Hydramist is just around the corner and is honestly the best water injection system available period! Of course it requires the Hydra :) Seriously I promise just a few more weeks.

I'm been extremely busy and had pushed the project aside even though I have been using and testing now for around 9 months. It took awhile to work out the tuning, component selection, fail safes, and electronics. I proposed what I wanted specifically to overcome some short comings discovered while testing. Aquamist has agreed to make all the required changes to suite the needs of the most demanding Hydra customers.

On top of all that, we have been able to substitute and eliminate components for added performance but with a substantial reduction in cost. Initially this kit’s components came in at a whopping $1,000 but now we should be able to cut that in almost half to 2/3.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

The nicest thing about integration with the Hydra is the ability to add or subtract water where it's needed. That's similar functionality to the Aquamist MAF2, but it's a heck of a lot easier to add fuel to a computer cell than using dials. Water just becomes another option while tuning to elimintate knock, eliminate misfires, reduce EGT + it cools the cylinder and the charge, and prevents knock.

I am soo excited about getting both of these items. I just sold my utec. I will be buying my Hydra from a vendor other than Element. Phil will you send me a basemap to get me running once installed?

I've got my auxilary harness, my launch control is setup...
Now this is all I need :devil: :devil: :devil:

I've got my auxilary harness, my launch control is setup...
Now this is all I need :devil: :devil: :devil:
Do you need anything additional tot he Hydra for water/alky injection?? I know for LC, you need the harness... what about injection?

Do you need anything additional tot he Hydra for water/alky injection?? I know for LC, you need the harness... what about injection?
I am pretty sure the answer is yes, at least for the Hydramist kit Phil is going to put out. Of course he will be bundling it all together.

offset

The launch control harness already comes with outputs to control the WI kit.

I am soo excited about getting both of these items. I just sold my utec. I will be buying my Hydra from a vendor other than Element. Phil will you send me a basemap to get me running once installed?

Phil charges a $250 ("one time fee I think") technical assistance fee for what youre asking. If youre buying from another vendor, be sure its an Element Tuning Hydra to avoid this fee. Plus you get maps, spacers and mounting brackets, and technical support from Phil included with it.

I purchased a non Element tuning Hydra and it was a hard and time consuming to program without a base map. Had to fab the bracket and find a place where the spacers were sold.

I'll be posting up later today. In the Proven forum. Looks pretty good, but it was a heartbreaker of a dyno.

Phil charges a $250 ("one time fee I think") technical assistance fee for what youre asking. If youre buying from another vendor, be sure its an Element Tuning Hydra to avoid this fee. Plus you get maps, spacers and mounting brackets, and technical support from Phil included with it.

I purchased a non Element tuning Hydra and it was a hard and time consuming to program without a base map. Had to fab the bracket and find a place where the spacers were sold.

Yeah I am gonna get the element one I Hope. Hopefully with the water/meth injection(if it's gonna be ready.)

Wait there is an Element Tuning Hydra and ANOTHER kind of hydra?? What... I'm confused.

IIRC, Hydra is the brand, Nemesis is the model. Element is but one of the distributors for the EMS.

IIRC, Hydra is the brand, Nemesis is the model. Element is but one of the distributors for the EMS.
The only distributor authorized for Subaru in the States no less. But Phil has a short list of retailers who re-sell the Element branded Hydra.

offset

Phil has worked hard to get a proficient water injection system that ties in with the Hydra and he's close to releasing it. I've bugged the crap out of Phil to keep developing a kit, but he let me work on integrating with the Hydra on my own. It works very well. I think by the time Phil releases an Element branded kit it will be very well tweaked.

Phil is the "exclusive" Subaru dealer for Hydra EMS but he has done some Evo Hydra tuning where he has a non-exclusive license.

But I should be ok with a Hydra and an SMC kit, yea? I mean, I'm sure Phil's kit will be much more thought out and comprehensive to Subarus but for the price I got my SMC kit, I'd wanna keep and use it.

Yes, it should work fine.

The hydra drives the Aquamist HSV with pulse width. If you are not using a solenoid valve to meter water--the Hydra is not going to control it. Meter water with something else and you'll be fine.

Jeff, Phil says you car turned out great. No more misfires!!! Yeah!

Yeah, it's almost strange without them at 5700RPM per usual.

I am soo excited about getting both of these items. I just sold my utec. I will be buying my Hydra from a vendor other than Element. Phil will you send me a basemap to get me running once installed?

It's easiest to give your modification list to your vendor and have them forward it to me. This way your Element Hydra will be ready to install with the correct base map.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

But I should be ok with a Hydra and an SMC kit, yea? I mean, I'm sure Phil's kit will be much more thought out and comprehensive to Subarus but for the price I got my SMC kit, I'd wanna keep and use it.

Your SMC kit will work fine but it will not integrate into the Hydra EMS as has been discussed here. It will function separately and will not controle water flow as you would a fuel injector in a 3D map of rpm vs boost like the Hydra can. You will not have automatic map switching based on water flow or lack of. The system also has a gauge to display water flow in CC so you not only see how much water is being injected but also when to activate and deactivate the aggressive fuel and spark maps.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Hmmm.... decisions. SMC kit or wait for the HydraMist and have better integration and tuning capabilities. Wish I knew the pricing for the hydramist already ;) . Anyway, thanks for the response Phil.

Use SMC until Hydramist is actually released, sell SMC for a slight loss, get Hydramist, profit!!! With the 2+ month (trust me - I know :() wait on SMC kits it should be rather easy to sell and that way you have something for summer in case the Hydramist takes a bit longer then a few weeks...

It's really on the way guys. We've got almost 10 months of R&D into the kit and it's ready to go. I will likely be taking deposits in two weeks and trust me I never take deposits for vapor ware. At this point we are just pricing out the final component selection.

It's finally here and trust me you will find it was worth the wait!

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

It's really on the way guys. We've got almost 10 months of R&D into the kit and it's ready to go. I will likely be taking deposits in two weeks and trust me I never take deposits for vapor ware. At this point we are just pricing out the final component selection.

It's finally here and trust me you will find it was worth the wait!

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
Just let me know when I can get that deposit to you Phil. Side note, it sounds like your trip for some tuning in Ohio is scheduled. If possible please let me know if I can get my hands on the kit ahead of that time and if you have room for one more car to tune with Hydramist on it. I would love for you to tune my car while you are here, but I would hate to do that and then turn around and try to get the tune fixed up with the WI shortly after myself.

TIA,
offset

Oh, BTW will you be able to bundle in the DDS3 at a good price for us as well? After speaking some with Trent about his setup, I wasn't sure if you were going to have that automatically be a part of the kit or optional.

offset

Yes, the kit includes a custom DDS3 Gauge/unit specifically for the Hydramist system.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

can you give some ballpark pricing?

Yes, the kit includes a custom DDS3 Gauge/unit specifically for the Hydramist system.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
That's what I like about Phil and Element Tuning; always a complete and perfectly thought out product. Now hurry up and let me put some money down on this so I can get it soon!!

offset

That's what I like about Phil and Element Tuning; always a complete and perfectly thought out product. Now hurry up and let me put some money down on this so I can get it soon!!

offset
Me too!

Well I got the price I wanted for my SMC kit so I'm now waiting for hte Hydramist! Please keep me updated on when we can put deposits down.

When we first started testing the kit was up there at around $1000 and even then it was well worth it for the kind of power and safety we had with the system. I was able to cut that down to around $700 during testing with some key component changes. Now that we've made even more changes by empowering the Hydra fully I believe it will be well under $700. These key changes really simplified the system for better functionality and reliability all while improving performance for the high powered cars we mostly deal with.

There is no final pricing yet but I hope to have the pricing ironed out late next week so we can start getting deposits and the kits on the way.

Thanks again for your patience!
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

nice ... consider me in for this system.

Innnnnnnnnnnn.

bump for an update....

I sent Phil an email yesterday and haven't got a response yet (no problem though as I am fine waiting as long as I can bug him about it from time to time :lol: ). I wonder how long it will be from the time of making a deposit until we actually receive the kit. I was hoping to have this in and running before June.

offset

After getting jazzed about the Hydramist again (a daily occurence for me) I went and did some poking around. I wonder if Phil's kit will include the new Aquamist WRX/Sti water injection hose as well. I just now came across this on the press page for Aquamist...
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/press/

Aquamist WRX/Sti water injection hose
Aquamist and Charge Performance of USA has joint developed and launched a special splicing hose for the Subaru's STi/WRX water injection application (48mm x 70mm i/d). It is a notorious problem to find a suitable place to drill and tap in a water jet on these cars.
The new hose simply replaces the existing intercooler/throttle hose and there are two threaded boss suitable for the Aquamist water jet - no more drillings.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/press/hose-s.JPG
For a BIG pic of it click here (http://www.aquamist.co.uk/press/806-380/wrx-hose.JPG)

offset

Unfortunately Ed does not sell those anymore, but there is an alternative available from Richard Lamb. You use a punch to make a hole in a silicone hose, then you push this thing through the hole. At it's base it flares out. The flare keeps it from pushing out of the hole. It was developed with a thicker silicone hose in mind, but you can make it work pretty well.


I'll post up a pic later.

bump for an update....


Whats going on with my refund for the sti struts and springs I bought from you?

ups did not send me the correct amount, I'm still trying to work it out with them,

bump for an update from ET

I'm still waiting on Richard Lamb for pricing for some of the proposed components. I'll try and contact him again this week.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

I just spoke with Richard Lamb this morning and things are moving along and we're as excited as ever. Since I've requested such a custom component selection and custom software changes, the pricing and implementation is taking a little longer than expected. I hope to have some goods news shortly.

All I have to say is I’m running 29 psi with a 75 lbs compressor turbocharger on pump gas!!!!!! My injector duty cycle is at 90% running 1000cc injectors and an Aeromotive fuel pump so I’m really itching to get this on the dyno. I can’t wait for you Hydra owners to use this system!

Thanks,
Phil
Element Tuning
(240)246.0302
http://www.elementtuning.com

So what about those who already have an Aquamist system (I have a 1s System now), will we be able to incorporate it to work with the Hydra? Will there be a software upgrade for the water injection mapping or is it already there? (I am not sure since my Hydra is on its way)

-Matt

Matt,

Unfortunately the only thing we would use out of your 1S system is the high speed valve and a relay. You would be better served selling it and then upgrading.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

That is what I figured which is why it is up for sale. :D

I think the price that you mentioned with the items included is a really good deal.

-Matt

any updates on price?

It sounds like the holdup is partly because Richard L. has been talking with Shurflo about some new pump specifications; but it sounds like those talks are going really well. I have been getting anxious for sure; but I get the feeling we are in the home stretch for these becoming available.

offset

Guys,

Yes that is one of the hold ups but what you're going to end up with is a product of unmatched testing and performance. Both Richard and I tend to go a little overboard on testing.

Check out Proven Power for the latest results.

can we get an estimated price range. $500-600??

Its already been said. Less than $700.

Its already been said. Less than $700.

I hope :)

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Guys,

Yes that is one of the hold ups but what you're going to end up with is a product of unmatched testing and performance. Both Richard and I tend to go a little overboard on testing.

Check out Proven Power for the latest results.
Yep, everything I have heard thus far (from bugging everyone I can) makes this sound like the best system that has ever been produced for our cars.

offset

Bumpage for getting Shurflo to get on it (if that is still the current delay).

offset

I was wondering is it safe to run water injection everyday.

Phil, Nothing Yet? Looking forward to get your WI Kit

Yes it's safe to run water injection every day. I have been for about 10 months and even tore down a motor for inspection. I'm not sure why you would think it isn't safe so let us know your concerns and I'll answer them the best I can.

Update:

Aquamist has implemented all the software changes requested for the custom DDS3 unit for the Hydramist. I would say that was the most difficult part. Also the custom Shurflo pump has also been designed and is getting manufactured for the Hydramist. I still don't have pricing however but I'll follow up at the end of the week.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

any update on the pricing?...

Getting pricing is like pulling teeth :lol: I did speak with Richard Lamb two days ago and everything is on track except for when I said I would be taking deposits and shipping Hydramists ;)

The current hold up is the custom Shurflo pumps that are being manufactured specifically for our kit. This is a very important component and is what I have been testing and tuning with. Aquamist is telling me 4 weeks to start delivering the Hydramists. Richard is trying to finalize pricing but wasn't able to price the kit out when we spoke so I'll give him until early next week before I ask again. Once I have this information you'll see me post specifics here and most likely in the water injection forums.

At least one of us if fully enjoying the power of Hydramist :D

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

*Question*

I have an Aquamist 2d setup and a DDS3 Flowmeter, will it work ok with hydra? I'm using version 2.17 and wanted to have it so when I turn on the DDS3 it then flips to the "Auxilary Maps"

Or will I have to buy this little Hydramist dealy to get things to work right?

Nick

*Question*

I have an Aquamist 2d setup and a DDS3 Flowmeter, will it work ok with hydra? I'm using version 2.17 and wanted to have it so when I turn on the DDS3 it then flips to the "Auxilary Maps"

Or will I have to buy this little Hydramist dealy to get things to work right?

Nick
You will need the accessory harness (for something like $50) to get it working.

offset

*Question*

I have an Aquamist 2d setup and a DDS3 Flowmeter, will it work ok with hydra? I'm using version 2.17 and wanted to have it so when I turn on the DDS3 it then flips to the "Auxilary Maps"

Or will I have to buy this little Hydramist dealy to get things to work right?

Nick

Nick,

Unfortunately the only parts you can use off your kit are the hoses, nozzles, and the flow sensor (not control unit). Everything else in the Element Hydramist had to be developed specifically for use with the Hydra EMS. The standard switchable outputs of the DDS3 did not work successfully and is why we had to customize the software and circuit board.

You can still use your 2D system with the Hydra and our harness to control the water flow but you won't have the safety of the automatic map switching.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Bummer.

Bummer.

I know it's tough to have to spend more money but it really shows the level of commitment Element Tuning and Aquamist have put into the development of this kit to go as far to redesign almost every significant part.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Yea, I totally agree 100% in that this kit will kick total @ss. But I just won't be able to get it, I'll have to have a seperate map for my Water Injection and use it for "race only" or just get a huge tank and keep it full at every gas station.

Bump for hopes of some more updates on this.

offset

I can't wait for this injection.. I'm holding off on my next tune for it.. Or is that a bad idea Phil??


I know I'm a little off topic, but any word on headers of yet Phil?? I still didn't find one that I like for less then 1200... :eek:

I'll put you guys at bay temporarily but everything is moving along and Shurflo is finishing up the testing on the new pump for us. So far we are on schedule and I have received a production DDS3 for final evaluation.

I've shelved a couple projects temporarily to speed up production on the Hydramist (3 more weeks), GT65 Turbo Kits (3 weeks), and our new exhaust system (1 month).

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

i forsee a hit to my credit card in the near future with the hydramist and gt65 kit,

sorry, i may have missed this but

have you started taking deposits or are you going to wait until production is in swing?

Bump for updates please.

offset

Shurflo pump tests have been completed and approved.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

:D :D :D :banana:

Hell yeah water injection time :D

Absolutely! My motor parts are almost all here and I can't wait for everything to go in. Perfect timing on the Hydramist! Crazy power from pump gas is exactly what I'm looking for! :banana:

Ok guys this is the moment you've been waiting for...........

The Element Hydramist is $699. I'm going to put up a post on the water injection forum next week listing all the details etc but I thought I would give this group first notice. You may ask questions here also.

If you want to reserve and Element Hydramist please email sales@elementtuning and put Hydramist in the subject line. Please include your contact information as I will be contacting you for a deposit. Don't call me this week as I'm in Canada tuning and I'll just ignore you :lol:

I think this goes without saying but the Element Hydramist kit is specifically for those with the Hydra EMS.

Thanks for your patience!
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Sent :)

Questions:

1. Does the Hydramist require the Element Tuning EMS aux harness? If so, is that included in the price?

2. What failsafe mechanisms come with the Hydramist and how do each of them interact with the Hydra maps?

3. Aquamist kits, to my knowledge, use a special pump they had developed for reliability concerns. Does the Hydramist use this same pump or at least one based on the same technology?

sent info for one...Thanxs!!!
Steve. :D :D

Email sent!!

offset

oh man, do i or dont i,

GT65 w/hydramist EM,

i have one foot in and one foot out on this one guys,

cant wait to see everyone's results

Wow... sweet pricing. Not as bad as I thought. If i didn't get my smc at a great deal, i'd do this.

maybe after i get my setup up and running and bring it to Element to get tuned... I'm sure I'll be convinced

Ok guys this is the moment you've been waiting for...........

The Element Hydramist will have an introductory price of $659 to the first group of purchasers. After this group the price wil increase to $699. I'm going to put up a post on the water injection forum next week listing all the details etc but I thought I would give this group first notice. You may ask questions here also.

If you want to reserve and Element Hydramist at the discounted price please email sales@elementtuning and put Hydramist in the subject line. Please include your contact information as I will be contacting you for a deposit. Don't call me this week as I'm in Canada tuning and I'll just ignore you :lol:

I think this goes without saying but the Element Hydramist kit is specifically for those with the Hydra EMS.

Thanks for your patience!
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Just emailed you. I'm definitely in!

Everything is still on track guys. My intention was to have the Hydramist webpage done this week but I haven't been able to finish it. I'll keep working on it over the weekend which will contain specifics and pictures. Hopefully it will be ready Monday.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Phil I'd Like to Reserve a Kit for $660, oh and I need Help

http://www.elementtuning.com/

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I assume this post is to show some impatience?? It is taking forever for this thing to show up, and I am still waiting (and boy is it a good thing I have loads of patience). But hopefully what they say is true about the good things are worth waiting for. Anyone else got a response from Phil yet on this?

offset

Yes :)

He was going to update the web page 10 days ago, so I am hassling. I hope his absence isn't due to something bad.

It's because he is here tuning cars in Seattle. Sorry.

Sorry guys, the product is still on schedule but I'm not. I've been in Seattle tuning all week and got stuck an extra day. Voicemail is full and well I need a Minime :lol:

I've made zero progress on finishing the webpage but I assure you the kits are on schedule. Since I'm behind on the webpage for the foreseeable future ask me questions here instead.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Phil,

Do you get my mails and pm's ?

I know you are busy, i dont want to disturb but waiting for your reply,

Thanks

Ok guys this is the moment you've been waiting for...........

The Element Hydramist will have an introductory price of $659 to the first group of purchasers. www.elementtuning.com

Email sent, also any luck on a map for my 816cc Injectors

Questions:

1. Does the Hydramist require the Element Tuning EMS aux harness? If so, is that included in the price?

2. What failsafe mechanisms come with the Hydramist and how do each of them interact with the Hydra maps?

3. Aquamist kits, to my knowledge, use a special pump they had developed for reliability concerns. Does the Hydramist use this same pump or at least one based on the same technology?


Here are some questions that I'm curious about as well.

Questions:

1. Does the Hydramist require the Element Tuning EMS aux harness? If so, is that included in the price?

2. What failsafe mechanisms come with the Hydramist and how do each of them interact with the Hydra maps?

3. Aquamist kits, to my knowledge, use a special pump they had developed for reliability concerns. Does the Hydramist use this same pump or at least one based on the same technology?

1. No it does not however if you already have the Element Tuning Aux Harness you will not need to do any wiring at the ecu since the kit not only contains the launch control, flat-shift, and anti-lag wires it also includes the WI wire and the Aux Map wire. If you have no desire for those items the Hydramist kit will contain just the WI and Map switch wires.

2. The biggest problems we encountered in the early stages of development was that there were too many chefs in the kitchen. The system had to be simplified as this would ultimately make it more reliable. When we originally conceived the kit it utilized a custom electronics and an FIA2 system. What we found were lots of conflicts between that system, the DDS3, and the Hydra. At this point we’ve completely eliminated the FIA2 system and stuck with customized DDS3 and the Hydra.

The systems primary failsafe criteria are water flow, water level, map switching, and boost. A sensor is placed after the water injector and just before the misting nozzles located in your intake. This turbine sensor sends information to the Hydramist DDS3 gauge and control unit.

http://www.elementtuning.com/images/HydramistDDS3.jpg

The amount of water flow in CCs is shown on the gauge. The system can then be tuned to activate within and acceptable window of water flow. For instance if your pump is failing or your nozzles become clogged you will get a low CC water flow rate which will be displayed on the gauge. Let say your setup once tuned is designed to flow 350cc of water but the sensors are only reading 150 cc. You could set your low fault (WL) to recognize this a problem which would then send a signal to the Hydra to revert to the pump gas mapping and drop your boost (optional). Now if your water flow is north of your window (WH) and hits 450cc then this likely a sign a water line is cracked or broken which sends a signal to the Hydra the same as above. The gauge will display the water flow rate and if the system is normal or faulty by illuminating a light (B). There is also a water level sensor you can install in your tank which when the water level is too low deactivates the system and reverts the map. The is displayed by illuminating the water level light.

Under all fault conditions the system is shut down to prevent and damage to the pumps. Also the Hydramist DDS3 has a main power button which allows you to turn the system on and off. The process of turning off the Hydramist DDS3 reverts the Hydra to the standard pump gas maps.

3. From the beginning we knew the standard Aquamist Race Pump would not have enough water flow to handle the typical Hydra EMS customer so we set out for a solution. Richard Lamb from Aquamist and I discussed the pros and cons of the available pumps, the cost of running 3 Aquamist Race Pumps and decided it was best to come up with something new specifically for the Hydramist. Richard had designed a new pump based on a Shurflo pump, made his modifications and bench tested it non-stop. Once he was satisfied the new design performed to his standards he sent it to me for testing. This was the solution I was looking for and solved the problems typically associated with some of the Shurflo pump designs. Because the pump is larger than the race pump installation is more limited but honestly mounting 2 to 3 Race Pumps wouldn’t be any easier. This new pump has been tested for about 8 months on our Time Attack WRX and it what we are now waiting for from Shurflo. The main criteria that needed to be addressed with the development of this new pump was to ensure the pump could run at constant pressure for extended periods of time and to ensure water delivery speed.

I hope this helps.

Thanks,
Phil
(240)246.0302
http://www.elementtuning.com

Awesome!!! I am looking forward to having that Aquamist guage on my dash.

Awesome!!! I am looking forward to having that Aquamist guage on my dash.
+12345 :banana:

What size is the guage going to be??
http://www.elementtuning.com/images/HydramistDDS3.jpg

+12345 :banana:

What size is the guage going to be??
http://www.elementtuning.com/images/HydramistDDS3.jpg
Good Q!!!!!!

The gauge is a standard 52 mm.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

The gauge is a standard 52 mm.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
Sweet....I have a space ready for it!

Hey Phil, just a little bumpage to see if you are any closer to an ETA on these things. I want to make sure you got my email so you could add me to the list from a few weeks ago.

TIA,
offset

Yes it's likely I got it but I don't know your real name offset. LOL!

We are still on track for the Hydramist with no delays.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Phil, put me down for one of the first orders.. I want to put that on my Ultimate GT35R kit like we talked about in MD.. I want more then 421whp and 361tq.. I already have the FMICE and the Magnus on and I'm awaiting the Cusco header (already wrapped).. I think that was pretty much everything that we talked about.. Ohh, and the EVOII, which I got pulled over the first night I had it on.. I told the cop if he wanted to hear loud I would put that Perrin Twin Tip back on.. LOL.. Let me know what we are looking at for schedule at this point and if we can arrange another tuning at Altered At...

Thanks..

Ken Shoaf.. Aka.. Lil Shoaf..

yea me too already sent you an email too.

Schwinn04@aol.com Scott(friends w/James/Jrp)

still waitin on the GT65 kit and projected date for it's release? and projected date for the Hydramist's release?

GT65 kit and projected date for it's release? and projected date for the Hydramist's release?

good question +123456 ??

Phil??

Two weeks out on GT65 due to delay in manufacturing downpipes and about 1 week left for the Hydramist.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

How much is the Hydra accessory harness again?

Two weeks out on GT65 due to delay in manufacturing downpipes and about 1 week left for the Hydramist.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Well that sounds good, can I swing by somewhere and pick it up :banana:, in 3 weeks then :D

How much is the Hydra accessory harness again?

$59

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

The amount of water flow in CCs is shown on the gauge. The system can then be tuned to activate within and acceptable window of water flow. For instance if your pump is failing or your nozzles become clogged you will get a low CC water flow rate which will be displayed on the gauge. Let say your setup once tuned is designed to flow 350cc of water but the sensors are only reading 150 cc. You could set your low fault (WL) to recognize this a problem which would then send a signal to the Hydra to revert to the pump gas mapping and drop your boost (optional). Now if your water flow is north of your window (WH) and hits 450cc then this likely a sign a water line is cracked or broken which sends a signal to the Hydra the same as above. The gauge will display the water flow rate and if the system is normal or faulty by illuminating a light (B). There is also a water level sensor you can install in your tank which when the water level is too low deactivates the system and reverts the map. The is displayed by illuminating the water level light.

Under all fault conditions the system is shut down to prevent and damage to the pumps. Also the Hydramist DDS3 has a main power button which allows you to turn the system on and off. The process of turning off the Hydramist DDS3 reverts the Hydra to the standard pump gas maps.

"There is also a water level sensor you can install..." -- I take that to mean that it is not included in the Hydramist base kit. Is that accurate? If so, what is the list of pieces required to implement it? I don't need part numbers, just a list.

"There is also a water level sensor you can install..." -- I take that to mean that it is not included in the Hydramist base kit. Is that accurate? If so, what is the list of pieces required to implement it? I don't need part numbers, just a list.

That is included in the kit but I believe you can tap into the OEM STi tank sensor instead or just rely on the dash light which is what I’ll do. Everything needed is included in the Hydramist kit with exception to the power cable from the battery to the pump (and a tank as OEM can be used).

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Rock.

So where will I be able to purhcase these Items??(GT65&Hydramist)??

So where will I be able to purhcase these Items??(GT65&Hydramist)??

At Element Tuning. LOL!

if you can get the hydramist to me before you come up to mn to tune my car i want it

Rich

At Element Tuning. LOL!
I thought you didn't have a store or do you mean on www.Elementtuning.com ??

I'm pretty sure that is what he meant (brick and mortar stores are so last century ;)).

offset

I'm only asking for anyone reading the thread who may not know ;)

Yes, you can order direct by calling or emailing but you can also get the parts through one of our dealers after the initial orders are delivered. At this point I do not have the man power to operate a walk in retail business only mail order as many of you know I travel constantly tuning setups around North America. I haven’t been able to find a “mini-me” who can provide the level of technical support our product line demands as it is very specialized. I have a full time fabricator and technician who builds our cars and prototypes parts but he isn’t capable yet of handling engine management related support and another who handles organization and parts orders. All of this is in the works for the very near future as Element has grown beyond what a few of us can handle especially me ;) I’m sure many of you can attest to this. :lol:

Thanks,
Phil
Element Tuning
(240)246.0302
http://www.elementtuning.com

Something to wet your appetite!

http://www.elementtuning.com/images/Hydramist-fb-s.jpg

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementttuning.com

you mean wet my pants, yes a picture :) FTW

Damn that is quite a tease. Now hurry up and take my money!!

offset

Two weeks out on GT65 due to delay in manufacturing downpipes and about 1 week left for the Hydramist.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
Today is Monday, one week later from this previous post. Could this actually be the week we start seeing the Hydramist show up??? (crosses fingers)

offset

They are actually arriving next week and I've already sent out a bunch of emails. Please give me a call as I'm not sure I ever received your email.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
240.246.0302

Hey Phil, I tired calling last night but it was after business hours. So I sent you another email with some info. Let me know if you get it this time. Thanks!!

offset
(Chris L.)

You all have been duped.

There IS NO HYDRAMIST. Element Tuning is a SCAMMER. I received these in the mail from them today:

http://www.atari-shop.nl/lynxused/hydra.jpg

http://www.floriantools.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/1012700.jpg

http://www.floridaswater.com/images/tipshose.jpg

^^^^^WOW that must work real good :lol: :lol: :banana:
NICE one...

:lol:

Send your money now ;)

You all have been duped.

There IS NO HYDRAMIST. Element Tuning is a SCAMMER. I received these in the mail from them today:

http://www.atari-shop.nl/lynxused/hydra.jpg

http://www.floriantools.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/1012700.jpg

http://www.floridaswater.com/images/tipshose.jpg

are you serious I just paid for mine yesterday, $h!t, I just bought this same set up practically to wash my car yesterday. I didn't even realize it was the Hydramist kit, Home Depot was way cheaper, Phil I'd like a refund(seeing how I already have it :lol: )

http://www.elementtuning.com/images/Hydramist-fb-s.jpg

Just in case the not so bright don't really think we're selling garden accessories :lol:

Update:

We are slightly delayed about a week at this point on the Hydramist. The kits actually arrived but were stuck in US customs as of Thursday last week. The Hydramist pumps didn't leave the Shurflo factory until Wednesday of last week so those are not likely to arrive until mid week.

Thanks for your patience!
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Hey Phil...

You got PM'd...

Thanks...

240.246.0302 best bet is to call him

Bump just out of habit. Looking forward to finding a a pretty brown box on my porch soon with a super soaker in it.

offset

All the Hydramist components arrived yesterday. After going over the wiring diagrams I feel it necessary to offer some better instructions which I will complete by Monday so I can start shipping.

Now if you are a know it all and have to have it now send me an email and I will try and get it out today for you.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

umm I'll wait for the better Instructions :) I'm sure these will save you phone calls

All the Hydramist components arrived yesterday. After going over the wiring diagrams I feel it necessary to offer some better instructions which I will complete by Monday so I can start shipping.

Now if you are a know it all and have to have it now send me an email and I will try and get it out today for you.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

I'm sure you are all Jealous but I got to see the Hydramist in Phil's car today and got a ride in it(hydramist was not "misting"), it was completely installed and looked Great can't wait to put mine in.

Sorry for the delay but we had to make some changes to the wiring diagrams. I felt it best to install one of the production kits since we started this project well over 1 year ago. The installation took longer than I thought but at least now I can give you a realistic installation time. It also allowed me to document the install and take photos so I can provide a guide.

We're shipping the majority of the units today and by the time most of you receive your Hydramist I should have an installation guide on line (by the end of next week). Included with the kits are the wiring diagrams which are quiet extensive so it will be good enough for the experienced. For you novices please wait for the installation guide as it's really helpful.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

That is GREAT NEWS!! Looking forward to a borwn box waiting on me next week now. Of course I will be out of town the following weekend, but hopefully I can find the time through the week to get the install going.

Thanks Phil,
offset

PS Are you going to send out some tracking numbers? I never got a chance to try emailing you again; but if you want to email me try offset AT donet .com

Sorry for the delay but we had to make some changes to the wiring diagrams. I felt it best to install one of the production kits since we started this project well over 1 year ago. The installation took longer than I thought but at least now I can give you a realistic installation time. It also allowed me to document the install and take photos so I can provide a guide.

We're shipping the majority of the units today and by the time most of you receive your Hydramist I should have an installation guide on line (by the end of next week). Included with the kits are the wiring diagrams which are quiet extensive so it will be good enough for the experienced. For you novices please wait for the installation guide as it's really helpful.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

That is GREAT NEWS!! Looking forward to a borwn box waiting on me next week now.
*Looks at brown box UPS just delivered*

:)

got mine too

Guys,

I tested the failsafe while tracking the car and it saved me from costly repairs as advertised :)

I ran the water/meth tank dry and sure enough I didn't see any water flow on the Hydramist gauge so I verified that the "B" was not illuminated which signifies the Hydra is in the agressive fuel and spark maps (AUX). It wasn't so I just kept on lapping!

Thanks,
Phil

PS. I'll have that guide online Friday.

Hydramist Installation Guide is ready:

http://www.elementtuning.com/Hydramist/elementhydramistinstallationguide.htm

I will likely add to this but this is all I could finish for now and I know most of you want to install this weekend.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

So, where can we get a tank? You need to add it to this list.

Required Parts Not Supplied:

- Zip Ties

- 16 ft 8 Gauge Wire (Recommendation: Car Stereo Amp Wiring Kit)

- 40 Amp Fuse

- 4 Bolts and 4 nuts

So, where can we get a tank?
Here is the setup that Phil suggested and I have ready and waiting to go in:
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/sum-230198.jpg
Part can be found at: www.summitracing.com
1 Gallon jr. dragster fuel cell
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1086575

Hydramist Installation Guide is ready:

http://www.elementtuning.com/Hydramist/elementhydramistinstallationguide.htm

I will likely add to this but this is all I could finish for now and I know most of you want to install this weekend.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
Awesome!

So, where can we get a tank? You need to add it to this list.

Required Parts Not Supplied:

- Zip Ties

- 16 ft 8 Gauge Wire (Recommendation: Car Stereo Amp Wiring Kit)

- 40 Amp Fuse

- 4 Bolts and 4 nuts

You can use your WRX windshield washer tank as described in the instructions. I used the fuel cell in my WRX shown in the post below yours.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

So, where can we get a tank? You need to add it to this list.

Required Parts Not Supplied:

- Zip Ties

- 16 ft 8 Gauge Wire (Recommendation: Car Stereo Amp Wiring Kit)

- 40 Amp Fuse

- 4 Bolts and 4 nuts

Its richard from Aquamist here. My fault for fogotten the 4 bolts and nuts as the Shurflo pump was shipped to Phil sepatately from New Jersey, USA. The rest of the part are shipped to Phil from England.

The Hydramist should have a 15A fuse link wired from the 40A relay base. Zip tie and 8 gauge wire is not supplied to Phil from us. I believe he will deal with this in time.

Guess what I received in the mail today :banana: :banana: :banana:

I am planning on just using the IC sprayer tank. I am wondering what everyone is thinking regarding mounting pump locations. The wheel well (per Phil's instructions) sounds like a good place, but I need to figure out exactly where to drill the holes. I won't be getting to the install until Sunday most likely, so if anyone is doing this in the meantime I would really appreciate some pics.

offset

Another quick/dumb question. A little teflon tape on all the threads of the pump and accumulator and connectors would be a smart idea, correct? I also have permatex (the ultra blue stuff), but I am guessing the teflon tape may be a little easier/better for this job? Any other little pointers are always appreciated in the install.

BTW I really like how the packaging was done. Everything was organized logically in the bags.

offset

Hey Phil what kind of #'s can expect to see with the Hydramist on your practically stock 06 STi ??

badass phil!!!! Now I just need to pull my motor out and then decide what route to take, most likely will go built 2.5 :devil: . I can't wait to get the hydramis though so i can install it, looks like a very solid kit. Great writeup too!!

-Dan

Another quick/dumb question. A little teflon tape on all the threads of the pump and accumulator and connectors would be a smart idea, correct? I also have permatex (the ultra blue stuff), but I am guessing the teflon tape may be a little easier/better for this job? Any other little pointers are always appreciated in the install.

BTW I really like how the packaging was done. Everything was organized logically in the bags.

offset

I'm glad you like what you received. Do not use sealand or teflon tape as you risk contamination and possibly clogging a jet. The fittings all have o-rings on them and is all that is required.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Its richard from Aquamist here. My fault for fogotten the 4 bolts and nuts as the Shurflo pump was shipped to Phil sepatately from New Jersey, USA. The rest of the part are shipped to Phil from England.

The Hydramist should have a 15A fuse link wired from the 40A relay base. Zip tie and 8 gauge wire is not supplied to Phil from us. I believe he will deal with this in time.

No worries. The bolt length will be varied depending on mounting location. If everyone feels the rear strut/fender well is the best location we can supply the bolts for the next batch of Hydramists.

The 40A fuse I recommend for the 8 gauge wiring from the battery but this is usually supplied in an Amplifier Wiring Kit. I know may of you already have your cars wired from an amplifier. In that case just use a distribution block to power your Hydramist pump.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

We can keep this thread going but I've set up an official Q&A on the Water Injection Forum.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1091801

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

You can use your WRX windshield washer tank as described in the instructions. I used the fuel cell in my WRX shown in the post below yours.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
I'll pass on the windshield washer tank in the engine bay :)

What tank are you using as shown in the installation guide? Is that some OEM STI dealie?

Yes the installation guide shows the installation with the OEM STI Intercooler Sprayer Tank. This tank works but it could use fuel cell foam stuffed in for track use.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

We're shipping the majority of the units today and by the time most of you receive your Hydramist I should have an installation guide on line (by the end of next week).
This was posted 34 days ago :(

Ah, here it is:

http://www.elementtuning.com/Hydramist/elementhydramistinstallationguide.htm