ok guys,

I have small project on my STI. I am thinking FPgreen turbo from forcedperformance, utec from XS, fuel pump, exhaust and injectors.


I will order all these today so let me know what you think.

here is the link to the turbo http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTFPWRX4906H&Category_Code=WRX

you might want to think about getting a new intercooler too. In my opinion i would much rather do suspension and brakes before motor.

arent' factory brakes good?

he means getting new stainless steel brake lines new pads, fluid, and if u wanted u can get new rotors, and yes our brakes are good. but they could be a lot better.

why thank you sam.

I think you shouldnt waste your money until you are ready to do it correctly with an external wastegate and custom uppipe with header.

Internal WG's on greens suck.

I think you shouldnt waste your money until you are ready to do it correctly with an external wastegate and custom uppipe with header.

Internal WG's on greens suck.

Yeah right. Dont waste your money untill you are ready to do it correctly?!?! what? So your saying an FP Green STI with a internal wastegate is a waste? hmm I didnt think so when my buddys made 360hp at the wheels on a safe tune. Whats that about a 100 and something hp gain. Big waste my friend... you better not waste your money untill you do it right :lol: Your going to be very happy with it man. If you can afford to do a external that would be great.. but if not, you'll still be happy with an internal setup as well.

Yeah right. Dont waste your money untill you are ready to do it correctly?!?! what? So your saying an FP Green STI with a internal wastegate is a waste? hmm I didnt think so when my buddys made 360hp at the wheels on a safe tune. Whats that about a 100 and something hp gain. Big waste my friend... you better not waste your money untill you do it right :lol: Your going to be very happy with it man. If you can afford to do a external that would be great.. but if not, you'll still be happy with an internal setup as well.

Why do it 1/2 assed to have to rip it all apart again later to get it right?
Don't preach to me about your "buddies car". I have a green, and yes, with 6 hours of tuning, 2 helper springs, tons of bending and adjusting the WG arm, and a S-load of grief it will work, but..... it creeps badly, its hard as hell to regulate part throttle boost, and the car just doesnt run the way a car with that size turbo should. Its like putting a band aid on someone who just slit their wrists. You can put a green on your car and make it run fine..... theres a right way to do things though and with a turbo that size the right way is to do it with an external.

Im not going by my "buddies" results either.....

MY CAR..... 420 whp 422 wtq (new figures) ......... 11.41 @ 117mph on pump.
I think I kinda know what works with a green. ;)

nice numbers carguy

Why do it 1/2 assed to have to rip it all apart again later to get it right?
Don't preach to me about your "buddies car". I have a green, and yes, with 6 hours of tuning, 2 helper springs, tons of bending and adjusting the WG arm, and a S-load of grief it will work, but..... it creeps badly, its hard as hell to regulate part throttle boost, and the car just doesnt run the way a car with that size turbo should. Its like putting a band aid on someone who just slit their wrists. You can put a green on your car and make it run fine..... theres a right way to do things though and with a turbo that size the right way is to do it with an external.

Im not going by my "buddies" results either.....

MY CAR..... 420 whp 422 wtq (new figures) ......... 11.41 @ 117mph on pump.
I think I kinda know what works with a green. ;)

This is on an ej257 or ej207? I'm guessing the latter.........

says up there he's got an sti... :rolleyes:

ej207 is an STi motor too...:rolleyes:

my guess is a 257.

This is on an ej257 or ej207? I'm guessing the latter.........


Bone stock 2.5 L STI longblock.

what wg did you go with? 38mm, 40mm, 44mm?

what wg did you go with? 38mm, 40mm, 44mm?


44mm

Bone stock 2.5 L STI longblock.

I think your numbers speak alot for the external wastegate. Rich's car with an internally gated green and stock tmic put down (iirc) ~285whp on 93 octane and ~333whp on ~104-105 octane. This was also with a hi-flow cat, and on a Dyno Dynamics. Talk about apples to oranges....but there's not much arguing with 400+ whp :eek:

It'll be awhile before I'm ready for a turbo upgrade on my car, but a Green with an external wg looks mighty tasty :devil:

thats whats sitting on my shelf...now if i can just get my utec :furious:

Yeah right. Dont waste your money untill you are ready to do it correctly?!?! what? So your saying an FP Green STI with a internal wastegate is a waste? hmm I didnt think so when my buddys made 360hp at the wheels on a safe tune. Whats that about a 100 and something hp gain. Big waste my friend... you better not waste your money untill you do it right :lol: Your going to be very happy with it man. If you can afford to do a external that would be great.. but if not, you'll still be happy with an internal setup as well.

That's very sound thinking and for most that is how it breaks down. Don't worry what others think. I agree you will be happy with the internal gate.

Carguy to say it's 1/2 assed with an internal gate is a bit overdramatic, and far from a waste of money. Don't come off like such an ass.

That's very sound thinking and for most that is how it breaks down. Don't worry what others think. I agree you will be happy with the internal gate.

Carguy to say it's 1/2 assed with an internal gate is a bit overdramatic, and far from a waste of money. Don't come off like such an ass.

To be honest it is 1/2 assed and a waste in my opinion..... my car ran better with the vf22 then it did with the green. It ran the same 1/4 mile times.

So if someone is asking me my opinion, Id just as easily do a 22 or an 1820 rather then a green with an internal. Thats my opinion and I think the #s back my opinion up.

Its like pulling teeth with the internal just getting the car to run right. Boost isnt supposed to taper off 6psi with a turbo that big on a 2.5

just bookmarking

ok guys,

I have small project on my STI. I am thinking FPgreen turbo from forcedperformance, utec from XS, fuel pump, exhaust and injectors.


I will order all these today so let me know what you think.

here is the link to the turbo http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTFPWRX4906H&Category_Code=WRX

wow :eek:
you called it small project... but it will be a big gain for your ride

Why do it 1/2 assed to have to rip it all apart again later to get it right?
Don't preach to me about your "buddies car". I have a green, and yes, with 6 hours of tuning, 2 helper springs, tons of bending and adjusting the WG arm, and a S-load of grief it will work, but..... it creeps badly, its hard as hell to regulate part throttle boost, and the car just doesnt run the way a car with that size turbo should. Its like putting a band aid on someone who just slit their wrists. You can put a green on your car and make it run fine..... theres a right way to do things though and with a turbo that size the right way is to do it with an external.

Im not going by my "buddies" results either.....

MY CAR..... 420 whp 422 wtq (new figures) ......... 11.41 @ 117mph on pump.
I think I kinda know what works with a green. ;)

Yeah from the way you sound i dont even think the green is good enough turbo setup for you. There are some individuals who are more than happy with internal, and arent looking for as serious of numbers and in turn can tune with less boost. And as for "my buddies". You need to stop making drama. I am the mechanic i personally installed it. So just because i dont personally have the turbo does not mean I dont know anything about them. Obvisously I did something right.. it works and it pulls hard. And its working fine at 20psi. I think once in a great while he may spike to 22-23. But he was tuned for 93 and is now running 94 oct which gives him that litte bit safer tune. Im not disagreeing with you about how the external would be the way to go.. but in some situations its not necessary.

Az3ar what did you decide?

Yeah from the way you sound i dont even think the green is good enough turbo setup for you. There are some individuals who are more than happy with internal, and arent looking for as serious of numbers and in turn can tune with less boost. And as for "my buddies". You need to stop making drama. I am the mechanic i personally installed it. So just because i dont personally have the turbo does not mean I dont know anything about them. Obvisously I did something right.. it works and it pulls hard. And its working fine at 20psi. I think once in a great while he may spike to 22-23. But he was tuned for 93 and is now running 94 oct which gives him that litte bit safer tune. Im not disagreeing with you about how the external would be the way to go.. but in some situations its not necessary.

Az3ar what did you decide?

Not trying to beat a dead horse but do you think that a 1 point octane increase is enough to protect a 3-4 psi higher spike? Just wondering?

Not trying to beat a dead horse but do you think that a 1 point octane increase is enough to protect a 3-4 psi higher spike? Just wondering?

No. But like I said with a safe tune and than being able to now put it 94 does help. He actually moved to a new state that has higher octane. It wasnt really planned in the tune.

Well, I ordered the turbo (be here in 2 weeks) utec was hard to find but it will be here in tomorrow. I got the fuel pump too (whole package 255W)..

I still need injectors (what I have found is too much $$$)
I don’t need exhaust now as cops here know me well and they have been pain in my ass lately so I am getting either headers or up pipe with DP made by Helix... What do you guys think???

TurboXS loves the green turbo and many Sti owners love it. I have an EVO with EX WG and I know what you mean but with the Sti I am trying something different.

I have few questions

How much PSI I can runs safely on my STI on pump? And how much on race lets say 110?

Any maps available for utec with green that you guys can point me to? I know turboxs have some so I will call them and see what they can do for me.

Thanks for all your help

oh I will install everything in 4 weeks once i get my new house. I am just worried about tuning but i will find someone around here if i could not learn myself. Installing is pc of cake as i can build engines so turbo install is no issue ;)

thanks guys

Well, I ordered the turbo (be here in 2 weeks) utec was hard to find but it will be here in tomorrow. I got the fuel pump too (whole package 255W)..

I still need injectors (what I have found is too much $$$)
I don’t need exhaust now as cops here know me well and they have been pain in my ass lately so I am getting either headers or up pipe with DP made by Helix... What do you guys think???

TurboXS loves the green turbo and many Sti owners love it. I have an EVO with EX WG and I know what you mean but with the Sti I am trying something different.

I have few questions

How much PSI I can runs safely on my STI on pump? And how much on race lets say 110?

Any maps available for utec with green that you guys can point me to? I know turboxs have some so I will call them and see what they can do for me.

Thanks for all your help

Get your stock inj modded by perrin.

You need to have someone tune the car the right way theres no question about it.

I wouldnt run more then 20psi with the internal cause you are going to spike 3-4 psi no matter what you do.

Get your stock inj modded by perrin.

You need to have someone tune the car the right way theres no question about it.

I wouldnt run more then 20psi with the internal cause you are going to spike 3-4 psi no matter what you do.


I don’t want to mess with the stock injectors as i have no time for sending them and I have to wait until they send them back. I would much rather buy new injectors.

last question for you guys.. I am either going with

1- turbo XS stealth back exhaust which does NOT include the muffler for $759
2- HELIX DP and up pipe with no cats for $450

What do u guys think?

I wouldnt run more then 20psi with the internal cause you are going to spike 3-4 psi no matter what you do.It's interesting to hear about YOUR poor experience with an internally gated FP Green, but this last comment is a bit overdramatic, don't you think? I have never experienced 3-4psi spikes with my Green.... *maybe* 1psi at the *most*.. typically much less than 1psi.


You keep mentioning "boost creep" with the internally gated Green, but then you say this:Boost isnt supposed to taper off 6psi with a turbo that big on a 2.5:confused: That's definitely not what would happen with boost creep.


While I am very intrigued by your results from switching to an external gate (more power), I would really like to see more results... like seeing a "before and after" dyno chart from another car... add *just* an external gate and run the same boost level.

ok I just ordered the turbo XS stealth back exhaust ;)

It's interesting to hear about YOUR poor experience with an internally gated FP Green, but this last comment is a bit overdramatic, don't you think? I have never experienced 3-4psi spikes with my Green.... *maybe* 1psi at the *most*.. typically much less than 1psi.


You keep mentioning "boost creep" with the internally gated Green, but then you say this::confused: That's definitely not what would happen with boost creep.


While I am very intrigued by your results from switching to an external gate (more power), I would really like to see more results... like seeing a "before and after" dyno chart from another car... add *just* an external gate and run the same boost level.

Like i said before...internal gate is fine. The majority of green's are internally gated. Some are running 10's, and plenty have made over 400whp without issue. For most people it's easier to add a helper spring and mess with the wastegate than get a custom upipe and ext. wastegate.

Like i said before...internal gate is fine. The majority of green's are internally gated. Some are running 10's, and plenty have made over 400whp without issue. For most people it's easier to add a helper spring and mess with the wastegate than get a custom upipe and ext. wastegate.That's just it.. I haven't added springs or messed with the wastegate.

Maybe I just got a good one. :p

ok guys here what i have got

Utec
FPgreen water and oil cooled (shiny) ;)
stealth turbo back exhaust by turboxs
injectors 800cc
W fuel pump 255

exhaust will be here tomorrow with utec and the turbo will take 2 weeks. I will install the utec tomorrow with the exhaust and load some basic map(any one can help me find some maps)

TurboXS will tune the car

I think your numbers speak alot for the external wastegate. Rich's car with an internally gated green and stock tmic put down (iirc) ~285whp on 93 octane and ~333whp on ~104-105 octane. This was also with a hi-flow cat, and on a Dyno Dynamics. Talk about apples to oranges....but there's not much arguing with 400+ whp :eek:

It'll be awhile before I'm ready for a turbo upgrade on my car, but a Green with an external wg looks mighty tasty :devil:


I am watching this one as well. 400whp commnad respect :)

My Deadbolt superzila (Green clone) put down 283.6 on Shiv's DD dyno. With TXS TBE, hi-flow catalyst and a spearco TMIC. I somehow lost my catalyst :) and it went to 290 and the curve smoothed out. It is getting retuned today. Oh by the way we are talking 91 oct pi$$ water CA gas from Costco on ECUTEC.

I think with those mods the STi axle back (on a stealthback) will be a bottleneck. But I would not mind to find out the difference. I would be curius to what would it do with and without the STi axleback and mix and match a catalyst or not.


cheers

Nick

That's just it.. I haven't added springs or messed with the wastegate.

Maybe I just got a good one. :p

:) Nice. :cool:

Like i said before...internal gate is fine. The majority of green's are internally gated. Some are running 10's, and plenty have made over 400whp without issue. For most people it's easier to add a helper spring and mess with the wastegate than get a custom upipe and ext. wastegate.


Your ass hurts!!!

Show me a car with a green that runs tens with an internal. Your talking out of your ass now. :lol:

My car with an external and jsut about every other mod without going into the motor (headwork, cams,) ran 11.40 on 93 oct. on race gas my car will go 11.10-11.20, there is no way a green with an internal on a STI at full wieght will go that fast.

Take the interior, power steering, ac, and anything else heavy out of a car with and external and you MIGHT get a 10.90 out of it if you can drive (after seeing the people at the evo/wrx shootout in NJ I'd say 75% of subie drivers cant drive not 1/4 mile wise at least.)

A car with an internal gate should go high 11's with a fantastic tune and an above averager driver.

Your ass hurts!!!

Show me a car with a green that runs tens with an internal. Your talking out of your ass now. :lol:

My car with an external and jsut about every other mod without going into the motor (headwork, cams,) ran 11.40 on 93 oct. on race gas my car will go 11.10-11.20, there is no way a green with an internal on a STI at full wieght will go that fast.

Take the interior, power steering, ac, and anything else heavy out of a car with and external and you MIGHT get a 10.90 out of it if you can drive (after seeing the people at the evo/wrx shootout in NJ I'd say 75% of subie drivers cant drive not 1/4 mile wise at least.)

A car with an internal gate should go high 11's with a fantastic tune and an above averager driver.

He never said an STI with internal went 10's he just said cars have done it..

Talk to Pavlo...it's a deadbolt creation 'technically not a green' and has a bigger wheel. Point remains that *gasp* a bigger turbo than a green with an internal gate can run 10's.;) I'm sure in the dsm world you can find a 'true' green in the 10's with an internal gate.

Not sure why you hate internal gates so much...they work quite well (according to most, not you obviously) and they are cheap. Doesn't make external gates bad.

BTW...you made the assumption i was talking about a usdm sti that ran 10's. Such is not the case.

guys..... (int and ext)....

is there an issue with tuning an external, that makes the internal more popular or used??? if not, why wouldnt all upgrade'rs simply choose external?

im in the market, and have green on my mind....

thnx

ese

ps- does the ext. have cooling lines that bolt-on as stock too?

The internal gate is easy (no extra piping needed), cheap, and it works.

On both the WRX and STi, the stock turbo has an internal gate.

If anything is lacking in the stock boost control system, it's the stock 2-port boost control solenoid. Moving to a 3-port solenoid (GM, old STi) or an EBC (AVC-R, SBC-iD) and tuning the car appropriately definitely improves things.

I have to agree with carguyx on this one. When dealing with larger turbos that are really pushing your engine there is no margin for error. If you are just going for a pump gas tune and arent really pushing the turbo then the internal gate will get you by but for people who want to use this turbo to it's full potential spend the extra money and do it right.

Talk to Pavlo...it's a deadbolt creation 'technically not a green' and has a bigger wheel. Point remains that *gasp* a bigger turbo than a green with an internal gate can run 10's.;) I'm sure in the dsm world you can find a 'true' green in the 10's with an internal gate.

Not sure why you hate internal gates so much...they work quite well (according to most, not you obviously) and they are cheap. Doesn't make external gates bad.

BTW...you made the assumption i was talking about a usdm sti that ran 10's. Such is not the case.

This is a subaru board with subaru comments on subaru cars..... the DSM turbo housings dont have the flow restrictions we do and usually dont creep, some are even twinscroll, so thats like comparing an STI to a RWD Mustang. (theres a dsm galant with a green thats gone 10.00 FYI)


Pavlo's turbo if Im not mistaken has a 55lb comp wheel vs a 49lb with a green, so....... thats not a green my man.

Heres a little project you may want to look into..... all these people with broken ring lands, how many of them have turbo's with external gates?? NONE that I can find.

Internal on green= spiking and erratic hard to control boost
spiking and erratic hard to control boost= detonation
detonation= broken ring lands

An external gate setup will run you about 7-800 bucks + labor, a new shortblock multiply that by 3-4 if you dont damage any valvetrain. See what Im getting at? I woulda loved for the internal to work, but it doesnt, thats what we get for using a turbo made for a DSM (green) on a subaru without much testing on the car.

Question:
How do you control an external wastegate?
I guess you do not need to have the stock boost solenoid?
Do you need a aftermarket EBC?
Does that take ECUTEC off the equation or ECUTEC can still control it?

cheers

Nick

Pavlo's turbo if Im not mistaken has a 55lb comp wheel vs a 49lb with a green, so....... thats not a green my man.

Heres a little project you may want to look into..... all these people with broken ring lands, how many of them have turbo's with external gates?? NONE that I can find. .

Right...pavlo's turbo is bigger and he does very well with the internal...it's a moot point that it's not a ''green''.

Good argument, i'm sure that's a large sample size :lol:

We're going around in circles, i've said my piece, you've said yours. :rolleyes:

I have to agree with carguyx on this one. When dealing with larger turbos that are really pushing your engine there is no margin for error. If you are just going for a pump gas tune and arent really pushing the turbo then the internal gate will get you by but for people who want to use this turbo to it's full potential spend the extra money and do it right.Take note, I am NOT DISagreeing with carguyx regarding the use of an external... I just don't think some of his comments about the use of an internally gated Green are completely accurate. I'm very curious about the use of an external gate... I've thought about moving to one myself, but not because my internal wastegate is giving me any grief or headaches.

Like I said earlier, what I would really like to see is a "before vs after" comparison of a car with an internally gated Green, running a known boost level... versus the same car with an external gate setup, running the same boost level.

On carguyx's setup, I don't think the boost level was the same between his "before" and "after" runs... he was comparing 15psi at redline on the internal against 17psi at redline on the external. Of course there is going to be more whp if you're pushing (and tuned for) more air... even after I commented in his thread, asking to see the dyno chart, Pavlo responded "2psi giving 35hp or so seems about right for RPM above 5252." I would just like to see a valid "A vs B" comparison. :)

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=627604&page=2

Question:
How do you control an external wastegate?
I guess you do not need to have the stock boost solenoid?
Do you need a aftermarket EBC?
Does that take ECUTEC off the equation or ECUTEC can still control it?

cheers

Nick

Yes you can still use your stock boost solenoid. If you are converting an interanlly gated turbo to external you would need to weld the flapper shut and then remove the vac hose from the internal gate and connect it to the external wastegate. If the turbo is already setup for external then you would connect the vac hose to the comp. cover and the other end to the wastegate. Ecutek will still be able to control boost.

Take note, I am NOT DISagreeing with carguyx regarding the use of an external... I just don't think some of his comments about the use of an internally gated Green are completely accurate. I'm very curious about the use of an external gate... I've thought about moving to one myself, but not because my internal wastegate is giving me any grief or headaches.

Like I said earlier, what I would really like to see is a "before vs after" comparison of a car with an internally gated Green, running a known boost level... versus the same car with an external gate setup, running the same boost level.

On carguyx's setup, I don't think the boost level was the same between his "before" and "after" runs... he was comparing 15psi at redline on the internal against 17psi at redline on the external. Of course there is going to be more whp if you're pushing (and tuned for) more air... even after I commented in his thread, asking to see the dyno chart, Pavlo responded "2psi giving 35hp or so seems about right for RPM above 5252." I would just like to see a valid "A vs B" comparison. :)

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=627604&page=2

I posted a while back the difference between 2 runs @ close boost settings.
I dont have the graphs but.....

the internal we made 355whp @ 22 psi tapering down to 16-17 we couldnt hold anymore boost the door kept blowing open even with 2 helper springs.

external we made 410 @ 23 rock solid.

Huge difference no?

Yes you can still use your stock boost solenoid. If you are converting an interanlly gated turbo to external you would need to weld the flapper shut and then remove the vac hose from the internal gate and connect it to the external wastegate. If the turbo is already setup for external then you would connect the vac hose to the comp. cover and the other end to the wastegate. Ecutek will still be able to control boost.

I wouldnt rely on the stock boost solenoid over18-19lbs, its not accurate in my opinion. I like MBC's rather then ebcs too. Just personal preference.

I will be converting to an externaly gated green in a few weeks. The internal gate on my green actually works pretty well, but I know that I can gain more control with an external.

If you have to add helper springs, and a little bend here and there in the wastegate actuator arm, there is an issue that needs to be corrected.

I wouldnt rely on the stock boost solenoid over18-19lbs, its not accurate in my opinion. I like MBC's rather then ebcs too. Just personal preference.


guys a little off topic but on my T-67 setup i cannot get the stock BCS to open my external greedy EXT gate at all what MBC would you all go with on my setup???

i like the Turbosmart EBC with gauge but its to much i would like to go MBC.
Dustin

I am a big fan of the hallman pro, it has a ceramic ball and comes with two differnt springs. I have had alot of success with it.

I posted a while back the difference between 2 runs @ close boost settings.
I dont have the graphs but.....

the internal we made 355whp @ 22 psi tapering down to 16-17 we couldnt hold anymore boost the door kept blowing open even with 2 helper springs.

external we made 410 @ 23 rock solid.

Huge difference no?I would guess that the 355whp figure wasn't made *AT* 22psi (read: at low RPM)... probably more like 18-19psi in the middle of the run..? Again, if you run more boost, you'll make more power.

The graphs would definitely be interesting to look at... I'd like to see at what RPM each run made it's peak whp.

I had no problem holding ~22-21 psi up top with a UTEC controlling a GM solenoid... I recently switched to an EBC, so I could try to figure out what boost level holds or doesn't hold.

ok guys here what i have got

Utec
FPgreen water and oil cooled (shiny) ;)
stealth turbo back exhaust by turboxs
injectors 800cc
W fuel pump 255

exhaust will be here tomorrow with utec and the turbo will take 2 weeks. I will install the utec tomorrow with the exhaust and load some basic map(any one can help me find some maps)

TurboXS will tune the car
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Thats a good setup and you will love it. My buddy was using basically the same setup but he also had the RFL axleback, PE injectors, utec, and also a FMIC. I remember when he would launch it on the stock turbo, it would throw stuff in the back seat .. Now stuff gets thrown in the back seat when he launches and than at about 4,000 when the beast comes alive. Its a rush!

Its going to take some getting used to though. I drove it for the first time and i kept hitting the rev limiter. The gears come and go faster than you can think. your going to love it.

Peace

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Thats a good setup and you will love it. My buddy was using basically the same setup but he also had the RFL axleback, PE injectors, utec, and also a FMIC. I remember when he would launch it on the stock turbo, it would throw stuff in the back seat .. Now stuff gets thrown in the back seat when he launches and than at about 4,000 when the beast comes alive. Its a rush!

Its going to take some getting used to though. I drove it for the first time and i kept hitting the rev limiter. The gears come and go faster than you can think. your going to love it.

Peace


thank you, I am sure it will be a nice setup. I hope it will kill my EVO :p . last time we had a race my EVO was about 5 cars ahead and rolling away :eek: . I have few projects here and there and i will make both cars fast ;)

guys, this thread is invaluabe to me....


seeing all the above evidence (not the opionated stuff), i cannot see any reason NOT to go external.....

provided, i buy the green, already externallly setup, with oem cooling lines intact, i cant see how i could go wrong.....

would an EBC be in order, to doubly ensure not overboosting?

what (if any, aside from cost) is the ownfall to this external setup?

ese

guys a little off topic but on my T-67 setup i cannot get the stock BCS to open my external greedy EXT gate at all what MBC would you all go with on my setup???

i like the Turbosmart EBC with gauge but its to much i would like to go MBC.
Dustin

The turbosmart MBC Fookin rocks!!! Its really cool it has clicks so you can actualy tell how much you are turning it up.

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Thats a good setup and you will love it. My buddy was using basically the same setup but he also had the RFL axleback, PE injectors, utec, and also a FMIC. I remember when he would launch it on the stock turbo, it would throw stuff in the back seat .. Now stuff gets thrown in the back seat when he launches and than at about 4,000 when the beast comes alive. Its a rush!

Its going to take some getting used to though. I drove it for the first time and i kept hitting the rev limiter. The gears come and go faster than you can think. your going to love it.

Peace

Its like shifting a 2 stroke dirtbike.

1st gear is like non exsitant.

It takes some getting use to especially at the track.

My car ran its fastest ET when I shifted it @6200 rpm go figure.... the torque is collosal.

Once you shift into 5th gear (and can relax for a bit), you're thinking, "Why did I even bother with 3rd gear? I was only in 3rd for what seemed like half a second..." :lol:

One thing to look at is your WHP goal and boost level. The green is the best bolt on turbo for the STI period. This statement is for the average STI owner that is planning on changing the turbo and wants 300-400WHP. Its spool up is near stock turbo levels, its 300whp bolt on power, and for all the WRX Vets, its like the VF30 upgrade for your WRX 2.0.

There is no dought that external is better, but it also costs more. People are comparing $4000 Uppipe/Downpipe/Turb/EXternal WG setups to a $1400 bolt on turbo. For $1400 You get a great turbo, that is easy to install, and can make great power. This turbo has no Boost creep issues, and is very easy to control boost at moderate boost levels(20-24psi) using a manual boost contoller, or EBC.

But for those people that want 400-500WHP, an External WG is nessecary to flow enough exhaust around the turbo and it does make controlling boost easier with the bigger turbos. Even our NEW TURBO KIT uses an external WG for this reason.

To say that the Green and internal WG can't control boost needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I have and still am using the stock ECU (reflashed)and our New Boost Soleniod to control boost 1.5-1.6 and it works perfect!

Az3ar, you have made a great choice and you will be very happy. When you get used to your new found HP and want more, our NEW TURBO KIT will be the next best choice.

Perrin Performance

i think im sold on green.,.....


waht are the specifics (size and the like) for the sti, or is this a universal setup for all?

im still on the fence about the EXTWG
'

our New Boost Soleniod

our NEW TURBO KIT

Perrin PerformanceMore info on these up coming products....

Rick aka Perrin whore (have almost every product offered for the STi)

thank you for your thoughts.


Mhyar

Your ass hurts!!!
A car with an internal gate should go high 11's with a fantastic tune and an above averager driver.

This conversation about the external wastegate is interesting. Since I was (actually I have the green back on for my engine break in) running a green with the 8cm housing, my results may be slightly different. With my VERY crappy driving, I ran 11.9X@118.8mph with a not so good 1.85 60' time. This is with the internally gated green, boost right around the 23ish psi level.

118.8 mph trap speed is pretty good given the setup, and certainly there is a bit more in the green. Based on my dyno experience, I would guess at that state of tune, I would have been at the 390-400whp mark on our dyno. My car was not lighted at that point, other then the usual spare tire, etc. I would suspect with a better driver getting the proper 1.7 60', I would be able to push to 11.6 or so. My launch technique sucked, as can be observed with the video of one of the runs: (This particular run is I think 11.94 @117ish, as it is a later in the evening run)

http://www.pdxtuning.com/video/Jeff1194.mpg

Keep in mind I have the JDM 6 speed, which means if I go much faster at the end I'll be shifting to 6th. While I have never experienced boost control issues, I'm also running a bit higher boost. I have the wastegate turned down quite a bit, and an additional helper spring added. Wastegate boost is right around 22psi, and I use the AVCR to get the rest.

The addition of the helper spring made a significant difference at high boost levels, as the wastegate door was blowing open.

I have toyed with the idea of putting an external wastegate on the green, but have hesitated as I am not staying with the green anyways. I have a GT37/GT40 in the works.

None the less, I would be interested to see some other results of people with external wastegates and the green.

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com

Jeff and Perrin.

2 reasons the internal works for you guys are.... the 8cm housing, which is next to immpossible to get now on a green and the fact that you guys live in warm climates.

Jeff and Perrin.
and the fact that you guys live in warm climates.

Location: Tigard, Oregon
:huh:

<--- 7cm housing in Metro Detroit. The temps have been down into the 30s (deg F) at night.

I was playing around last night.. set the boost at 1.30kg/cm^2 (about 18.5psi)... The largest spike I got was 1psi (peaked at 1.37kg/cm^2), and it held boost to redline in the STi's 4th gear (same as WRX 3rd).. and this was on a boost controller that hadn't "learned" the settings yet. ;)

i have had a green on my car with the internal gate for while...and i have made alota 1/4 mile passes runnin about 25#'S of boost.....and i have had NO problems..

Maybe its cuz i have a XEDE and have had the car tunned right.

BTW i'm in the process of redoing my motor for the winter, i may or i may not stick with the green...if i do, we shall see what the limits of that turbo are with the internal setup.

i got pics

but i cant post attachments???? I can email them if u guys can host them

Jeff, does have the 8cm housing, but i have, as do many, the 7cm housing which is the same housing we made 425WHP on. Yes, to get more than 1.6 bar the door starts to blow open (only after 6000RPM). Once again this is where the normal, average turbo buyer starts to exceed 400WHP, and also should think about a turbo kit like ours that has an external WG to help with controlling boost over 1.6 bar.

Once again, we are not saying that an External WG is bad, its just the next step after the green isn't enough power. For most people, the cost of the turbo, and all the fabing to get the External WG to work (uppipe/DP, and tubing) makes it very costly.

Perrin Performance

I dont know if you have it installed or not.. but get the inlet pipe from perrin or who ever. It was a bear just to get the perrin one on. I cant imagine how hard it is with the stocker. Yes the oem will work.. but if you have the change it helps the install process.

I dont know if you have it installed or not.. but get the inlet pipe from perrin or who ever. It was a bear just to get the perrin one on. I cant imagine how hard it is with the stocker. Yes the oem will work.. but if you have the change it helps the install process.

I can attest to the fact that putting the stock turbo inlet pipe back on the green is quite difficult. I imagine it would be difficult with any aftermarket inlet pipe with the oem diameter. Perhaps Perrin will bless us with an inlet pipe designed for turbo's with larger compressor inlets? :D

it will go on. We have one on our FP car here. We may produce a third inlet hose to work with slightly larger turbos. (We currently produce the WRX/STi version and the 05+ Legacy GT version.) If this happens information will be published on our Q&A thread.

Thanks again guys!

PERRIN PERFORMANCE

I dont know if you have it installed or not.. but get the inlet pipe from perrin or who ever. It was a bear just to get the perrin one on. I cant imagine how hard it is with the stocker. Yes the oem will work.. but if you have the change it helps the install process.

I recomment this as well. Either Samco or Perrin. The whole thing would be out so might as well. Plus a silicon hose is much more reliable(will not tear as the stock may do).

cheers

Nick

hey jeff...(perrin)...so whats this about a new boost solenoid?

<- interested...

carguy, how much boost? and on what octane did you make those 420+ numbers?

what IC/fuel/EM are you running? Those are nice numbers.

The NEW BOOST SOLENIOD is a new part we are playing with that is made for aftermarket engine mangament(stand alones and piggybacks), and even stock ECU's. One problem all users of the stock boost solenoid have, is controlling boost over 16-18psi. Things like bleeders are used in conjuction with the stock solenoid, to help this out, but more often than not they still aren't enough for big power. This is when the customer has to go spend $500 on an AVCR which does work very well, but not as good as our part. (examples to follow)

Our Solenoid is similar to the Apex part but is faster acting,holds 100psi (AVCR is only 34 i read somewhere) and flows more air. This in turn equates to less dutycycle to get more boost. This is a a custom made, 3 port solenoid that has the same impedence as the stock one (for compatablity with the stock ECU), made in the USA (like all Perrin parts), and will have instructions how to install it for different setups.

Yes, i can work as a bleeder like the stock solenoid, but will flow more. It can act like the AVCR solenoid, which shuts pressure off to the wastegate and diverts the pressure to atmosphere. And of course can work on an External WG setup.

Since we have used this on our car with the reflash it is amazing how well it controls boost. With my old AVCR, to get to 1.5bar it would have to be at 90% duty cycle at redline. Our solenoid needs about half that!

This part is perfect for all the Ecutek reflashes, Access port, UTEC, and other standalone ECU's. The retail price is going to be around $60.

Perrin Performance

I may be interested as well.

Cheers

Nick

When will it be available?

Please, post testing data to show DC... Mr. Perrin

Yes Please Show Some Data..

Thanx

We don't have a release date yet, since this was going to be part of our Turbo Kit, but with enough interests we could release this in a couple of weeks!

As for the DC. I have some DD logs showing what DC is needed to hold the 1.5 bar on the Green and Red. It starts at 40% at lower RPM and goes up to about 55% at redline. Both turbos have about the same DC.

Perrin Performance

Guys, I need a map for my utec and I cant find any. I need a simple base map for stock STi beside turboXS stealth exhaust. any links??

Guys, I need a map for my utec and I cant find any. I need a simple base map for stock STi beside turboXS stealth exhaust. any links?? http://www.turboxs.com/_images/Updatewrx/STI/stistage1olf.TXT for stock STi + UTEC
http://www.turboxs.com/_images/Updatewrx/STI/stistage2olf.TXT for stock STi + UTEC + TBE

Both are on http://www.turboxs.com/utecwrxupdate.shtml

We don't have a release date yet, since this was going to be part of our Turbo Kit, but with enough interests we could release this in a couple of weeks!

As for the DC. I have some DD logs showing what DC is needed to hold the 1.5 bar on the Green and Red. It starts at 40% at lower RPM and goes up to about 55% at redline. Both turbos have about the same DC.

Perrin Performance
count me as interested.

Well, I ordered the turbo (be here in 2 weeks) utec was hard to find but it will be here in tomorrow. I got the fuel pump too (whole package 255W)..

I still need injectors (what I have found is too much $$$)
I don’t need exhaust now as cops here know me well and they have been pain in my ass lately so I am getting either headers or up pipe with DP made by Helix... What do you guys think???

TurboXS loves the green turbo and many Sti owners love it. I have an EVO with EX WG and I know what you mean but with the Sti I am trying something different.

I have few questions

How much PSI I can runs safely on my STI on pump? And how much on race lets say 110?

Any maps available for utec with green that you guys can point me to? I know turboxs have some so I will call them and see what they can do for me.

Thanks for all your help


I talked to Dan at Vishnu, helluva nice guy BTW, he will tell you details of a customers car with a Green.

But anyways, our motors are not the strongest but for a large 2.5 liters at 7200 rpm they aren't bad. If you wanna run mondo psi your talking extremely good tuning at the least. But if you wanna go all out I'd say a closed deck, forged everything, balanced/blueprinted, and some work on the camspringsetc..., and some really strong studs like ARP. As far as building a big 2.5l to withstand a large psi load I'd say talk to Quirt at Crawford Performance or Agency Power.


For a stock longblock to run any psi higher than say 18 psi tuned for MAX performance then you really need to build your internals...

I talked to Dan at Vishnu, helluva nice guy BTW, he will tell you details of a customers car with a Green.

But anyways, our motors are not the strongest but for a large 2.5 liters at 7200 rpm they aren't bad. If you wanna run mondo psi your talking extremely good tuning at the least. But if you wanna go all out I'd say a closed deck, forged everything, balanced/blueprinted, and some work on the camspringsetc..., and some really strong studs like ARP. As far as building a big 2.5l to withstand a large psi load I'd say talk to Quirt at Crawford Performance or Agency Power.


For a stock longblock to run any psi higher than say 18 psi tuned for MAX performance then you really need to build your internals...
most experts are in agreement that 22psi is the limit to longevity with our motors. 18psi is nothing.

I talked to Dan at Vishnu, helluva nice guy BTW, he will tell you details of a customers car with a Green.

But anyways, our motors are not the strongest but for a large 2.5 liters at 7200 rpm they aren't bad. If you wanna run mondo psi your talking extremely good tuning at the least. But if you wanna go all out I'd say a closed deck, forged everything, balanced/blueprinted, and some work on the camspringsetc..., and some really strong studs like ARP. As far as building a big 2.5l to withstand a large psi load I'd say talk to Quirt at Crawford Performance or Agency Power.


For a stock longblock to run any psi higher than say 18 psi tuned for MAX performance then you really need to build your internals...

Uhhhh, can you brief us on the specifics Dan told you about his customer's car ?? It would be helpful :D

Dan at Vishnu?
I am at their place like 2 times a week never met a Dan there.

:confused:

Or you mean David at Vishnu?
David is a very nice guy. Very patient and very service oriented.
:)

Cheers

Nick

The NEW BOOST SOLENIOD is a new part we are playing with that is made for aftermarket engine mangament(stand alones and piggybacks), and even stock ECU's. One problem all users of the stock boost solenoid have, is controlling boost over 16-18psi. Things like bleeders are used in conjuction with the stock solenoid, to help this out, but more often than not they still aren't enough for big power. This is when the customer has to go spend $500 on an AVCR which does work very well, but not as good as our part. (examples to follow)

Our Solenoid is similar to the Apex part but is faster acting,holds 100psi (AVCR is only 34 i read somewhere) and flows more air. This in turn equates to less dutycycle to get more boost. This is a a custom made, 3 port solenoid that has the same impedence as the stock one (for compatablity with the stock ECU), made in the USA (like all Perrin parts), and will have instructions how to install it for different setups.

Yes, i can work as a bleeder like the stock solenoid, but will flow more. It can act like the AVCR solenoid, which shuts pressure off to the wastegate and diverts the pressure to atmosphere. And of course can work on an External WG setup.

Since we have used this on our car with the reflash it is amazing how well it controls boost. With my old AVCR, to get to 1.5bar it would have to be at 90% duty cycle at redline. Our solenoid needs about half that!

This part is perfect for all the Ecutek reflashes, Access port, UTEC, and other standalone ECU's. The retail price is going to be around $60.

Perrin Performance


i would like to know more on this i am having a hard time with my wastegate :mad: :mad: this might be a vauge question but here goes anything.

what does a ext waste gate need to "see" to open and close my gate has 2 vac lines i know you neeed a boost/vac source what else this ext. stuff is making my brain hurt can some one explain it to me so i dont blow up my car.

Dustin
bump

what does a ext waste gate need to "see" to open and close my gate has 2 vac lines i know you neeed a boost/vac source what else this ext. stuff is making my brain hurt can some one explain it to me so i dont blow up my car.

Dustin
bump

Hey Dustin,

This is a Turbosmart product. You can order the solenoid by itself. It is spendy thought. I found it ~$90 shipped. I might go this route if the FBC solenoid does not cut it and the Perrin product does not show itself in a couple of weeks. I’m sure the GM one is just as good (~$30). It probably can be hooked up the same way (see below).

http://www.turbosmart.com.au/images/products/e-Boost_Solenoid_Valve.jpg

They show it in one of their PDF with one of their external waste gate. This is just a cut from the PDF. You can also get a PDF that details the above solenoid.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/STiDreams/STi_stuff/sensors/external_gate_ctl.jpg

You can get the PDFs at www.turbosmart.com.au .

thanks your are the man thats what i needed to see

but my t-67 has no comp nipplie i will just weld one in my I/C pipeing off the turbo.

dustin

are you running 22PSI?? Most if not all STI owner have said 18 PSI max on pump gas and up to 25 PSI with race. I dont see this engine holding more than 18 psi for everyday drive. GUYS i am looking for something reliable here.

did my stage 4 setup at 12k miles. been boosting between 18 and 22psi since then. im now at 20k miles. still holds vac perfect. its your car, whatever you feel comfortable with is what is right for YOU. dont let ANYONE tell you otherwise.

cant wait till i get my pistons and rods :D boost+++++

I have an FPGreen, TurboXS FMIC, PDE Catted Dpipe, Greddy EVO2 TBE, 800cc Perrin Injectors, Walbro Fuel Pump, Apexi AVCR.

I'm running ECUTEK for 91 octane street tune and UTEC for race gas maps:

On a Dynojet w/ 250whp/249wtq stock run now getting:

348whp/326wtq at 20psi on 91 octane

390whp/422wtq at 27psi on 100 octane

The car was built and tuned by Dan Harman at Harman Motive. It's a phenomenal setup with an amazing power curve. We've got close to 400 test miles on it w/ no probs. A baby around town thanks to the ECUTEK but a beast when it gets on the gas.

Certainly not having any of the problems with the internal as stated here and the car is wicked fast just on pump gas. I actually haven't even had a chance try the race gas tune yet. Can't imagine what its like. Will get it to the track (road course) this week though.

I think that you'll be more than happy to with your setup--at least until you get used to it ;-)

Hey Myar (sp?)... finally got an STI huh? How's NoVa treating you?

Dan

Hey Myar (sp?)... finally got an STI huh? How's NoVa treating you?

Dan


I did not buy an STi... its my friends (its like mine, always in my grage
:D :devil: ) I called you guys a million time to buy parts from you but you guys were in the sema show or something... How you been?

Yeah imagine that... we were at Sema... well we're back now!!! :D

cough*green's in stock*cough

Things are good man. I bet that EVO runs real nice on 94 Sunoco. Send me some!

Dan

Yeah imagine that... we were at Sema... well we're back now!!! :D

cough*green's in stock*cough

Things are good man. I bet that EVO runs real nice on 94 Sunoco. Send me some!

Dan


man we got the green from FPperformance. my friend was in a hurry and he did not want to wait. any tips you can give us it will be great... here what we have so far...

GTspec headers and up pipe
TXS stealth exhaust
Green water and oil cooled
gauges
Utec
800 injectors by perine
TXS intake


How much do u think this STI will make?? and what boost level should we run? any tuner around here you like dan?

Thanks

man we got the green from FPperformance. my friend was in a hurry and he did not want to wait. any tips you can give us it will be great... here what we have so far...



How much do u think this STI will make?? and what boost level should we run? any tuner around here you like dan?

Thanks

You ''should'' run stock boost levels;) but the green will start to come alive after ~20psi on the 2.5. As far as a tuner he likes...probably himself :D

Good luck.

man we got the green from FPperformance. my friend was in a hurry and he did not want to wait. any tips you can give us it will be great... here what we have so far...

GTspec headers and up pipe
TXS stealth exhaust
Green water and oil cooled
gauges
Utec
800 injectors by perine
TXS intake


How much do u think this STI will make?? and what boost level should we run? any tuner around here you like dan?

Thanks

Sounds like a great setup. I'd ad the following:

Good boost controller: mbc or ebc (avcr, profec spec S, HKS EVC 5, SBC ID)
Perrin Inlet Hose: makes installing the turbo a lot easier
Upgraded intercooler: topmount or FMIC depending on you needs/goals

Best tuners in DC are at TurboXS. Jermaine or Nathan can hook you up with an awesome tune. They'll arrive at their own boost levels, but on 93 I'd shoot for ~22psi.

Regards,

Dan

Sounds like a great setup. I'd ad the following:

Good boost controller: mbc or ebc (avcr, profec spec S, HKS EVC 5, SBC ID)
Perrin Inlet Hose: makes installing the turbo a lot easier
Upgraded intercooler: topmount or FMIC depending on you needs/goals

Best tuners in DC are at TurboXS. Jermaine or Nathan can hook you up with an awesome tune. They'll arrive at their own boost levels, but on 93 I'd shoot for ~22psi.

Regards,

Dan




Thank you Dan, Do you guys have the Perrin inlet in stock? If so will it fit the TXS short intake? I will ask my friend and see what he thinks :devil: ....

TXS needs 3 weeks to get the STi on the dyno and that’s too long. Although; we love to take it to them and no one else. In the spring time will get the FMIC and will see what happens.

Thanks

Yes, Perrin inlets in stock. They fit with the TXS shorty or any other intake.

Regards,

Dan

im doing the same ****

yo that **** is pretty hot man mine is getting there maybe we should meet up one day

OK guys, 12 hrs of work and finally i fired it up. I am still checking for leaks and so on( none so far ;) ) I will have a lot of pics on but all i can say that it was pain in the A$$... I had everything installed

OK guys, 12 hrs of work and finally i fired it up. I am still checking for leaks and so on( none so far ;) ) I will have a lot of pics on but all i can say that it was pain in the A$$... I had everything installed


good work man. i can't believe i read through all this. lotttttta arguing and opinion but i might have learned something about modding my STi. oh well, it'll still be stock for a while. maybe someday i'll even get one of them fancy radio thingies.

Ok guys, all done but I need some help... First my cruise control light keeps blinking?? What’s up with that? I think my GTspec headers are hitting the car as they were 5MM away from the chassy at one spot and I am having clonking noise, other than that I have no leaks and everything seems well.

cruise control is blinking because of a check engine light correct?

cruise control is blinking because of a check engine light correct?


yes. i have reset the engine check light and it havent come up since then, any ideas will be great

This is truly an interesting thread for me.

My future setup:
Full ver 7 drivetrain
FP green with 8cm exhaust housing (I have a 18g 8cm that will be converted)
water injection
catless exhaust
FMIC
Utec

Leaning toward going external gate... but worried about boost control. (why buy an aftermarket boost controler when you have a utec)

Hopefully Perrin's solution will work well and I would be willing to buy one for $60 just to find out.

Plus when the car starts it stutters or comes to a point where its about to stop or shut then life comes back to it. Might be my injectors but I have changed them from the utec to 816CC in both settings (under stock and injectors).

The problem is with your injectors...

A friend of mine had the same thing where the car would not even idle with 800cc injectors even with the utec injector scaling.

Not really sure what the fix is yet. He installed the stock injectors and the car started up and ran fine.

Your open loop fuel parameters are wrong.

Stock Injectors: 550
Injectors: 800

That'll get you close. Still needs a lot of tuning.

Regards,

Dan

Your open loop fuel parameters are wrong.

Stock Injectors: 550
Injectors: 800

That'll get you close. Still needs a lot of tuning.

Regards,

Dan


Thank you dan, I will do that and let you know.

I had the same problem with my project when I went from 440cc to 740cc injectors. I just lowered the fuel pressure a bit and the idle smoothed right out. I was then able to drive it to get the ECU tuned (no boosting!) An AFPR with a fuel pressure gauge is very nice. ;) Of course, if you can adjust the parameters in your UTEC, that is definitely the better way to go. I didn't have that ability.

Dan at Vishnu?
I am at their place like 2 times a week never met a Dan there.

:confused:

Or you mean David at Vishnu?
David is a very nice guy. Very patient and very service oriented.
:)

Cheers

Nick

Sorry guys I meant David!

Ok we figured everything out. Engine check light due to the car running extremely rich, we fixed that and the clonking noise was because the GTspec header was hitting the frame. We had to cut the frame about 1 inch (nothing hard, nothing to worry about) However, I wish if they had told me (GTspec) before I installed them. The car is running fine and we have a dyno tune day on the 4th of DEC @ TXS

debating on what turbo???

i am looking to make about 420whp with a great torque curve prefer 400wtq
on 93 octane...

mods so far on my 2004 sti:

xxtuning headers
jic cat-back
perrin fmic
perrin fuel rail
perrin down pipe
perrin crank pulley
samco turbo inlet hose
utec w/ pe850cc injectors
perrin big maf

debating on what turbo???

i am looking to make about 420whp with a great torque curve prefer 400wtq
on 93 octane...

mods so far on my 2004 sti:

xxtuning headers
jic cat-back
perrin fmic
perrin fuel rail
perrin down pipe
perrin crank pulley
samco turbo inlet hose
utec w/ pe850cc injectors
perrin big maf

Walbro?

Inlet hose is STRONGLY recommended when doing a green simply because of fitment issues. The perrin one fit but others say get the samco one.

Phil Grabow's in Gaithersburg at Element Tuning. He can tune UTEC :) or set you up with at Hydra.

What's so special about the intake hose from Perrin or Samco? I'm not saying it isn't, I just don't know. Is it something special about the aluminum coupler (or the ability to remove it).

blinguskahn,

i do have the walbro fuel pump
getting the samco turbo inlet

so back to the original question with all bolt ons. what turbo can make me 420whp with a great torque curve prefer 400wtq
on 93 octane...

blinguskahn,

i do have the walbro fuel pump
getting the samco turbo inlet

so back to the original question with all bolt ons. what turbo can make me 420whp with a great torque curve prefer 400wtq
on 93 octane...

Green........... with external..... and supporting mods....

I made 419 and 424 on 93 oct

what kind of dyno is that again?

I have a Superzilla (Deadbolt version of the Green)
Spearco TMIC.

And I am nowhere close to 400whp. Granted I use a Dyno dynamics dyno and California 91 poop gas but still.

Cheers

Nick

carguyx your cars power is amazing.

what are your supporting mods and what was gate do you use? hks? turbonetics? 42mm? 44mm? 50mm?

sorry :p correction on typo = wastegate

What's so special about the intake hose from Perrin or Samco? I'm not saying it isn't, I just don't know. Is it something special about the aluminum coupler (or the ability to remove it).

The reason for it being so special has to do with the side that connects to the turbo not the side that connects to the intake. And its not necessairly "special" it just is much easier to connect it to the green than using the stock hose.

what kind of dyno is that again?

I have a Superzilla (Deadbolt version of the Green)
Spearco TMIC.

And I am nowhere close to 400whp. Granted I use a Dyno dynamics dyno and California 91 poop gas but still.

Cheers

Nick

how much did u make exactly and how much boost were you running. Do you have an internal wastegate also? Just curious as i am deciding between the superzilla and the green. How do you like the superzilla overall?

the inlet tube does produce additional HP over the original part. This is certainly a worthwhile upgrade for the ease of installation on the turbo plus the additional HP and TRQ. If we can help further please let us know!

PERRIN PERFORMANCE

gottcha, fit's over the larger Green inlet (like 2.4 inch) easier, thanks

yeah I know about the hp, more interested in boost threshold (might help there too)

When you mean boost threshold, what do you mean? How much is being limited by the stock inlet hose??? The best way to know is to put a vacuum gauge on one of the spigots on the stock hose and measure it. If you are seeing 5PSI (528mmhg or 10inhg)of negative pressure or vacuum, this means the turbo is working 5psi above manifold boost. The problem is this causes compressor surging issues, makes the turbo work in a less efficient area of its map, and you just simply loose HP!

That is why our inlet hose gains 5-7WHP on small turbo cars, and 10+ on big turbo cars. So besides the HP it does make the installation of the Green much easier and safer.

For those who are thinking of getting a RED or a Turbo with a large inlet we are making an even larger size inlet to make the install go better. These also will be a bigger HP gainer than our regular inlet hose because they will even less restriction.

I hope that is what you were asking??

Perrin Performance

One last thing to hit on, people have been complaining about needing EXTERNAL WG with the Green. What i would like to know is do these guys have inlet hoses? And if they do what kind? I would expect this type of problem with the stock inlet hose, and the samco part. Both are a small diameter hose, and both will produce much more vacuum in the inlet hose than ours. When i say Samco, i am talking about the one that has all the aluminum fittings coming out of it. This one is just like the factory hose (small diameter, and big kink at the bend) but smoother inside.

Perrin Performance

One last thing to hit on, people have been complaining about needing EXTERNAL WG with the Green. What i would like to know is do these guys have inlet hoses? And if they do what kind? I would expect this type of problem with the stock inlet hose, and the samco part. Both are a small diameter hose, and both will produce much more vacuum in the inlet hose than ours. When i say Samco, i am talking about the one that has all the aluminum fittings coming out of it. This one is just like the factory hose (small diameter, and big kink at the bend) but smoother inside.

Perrin Performance

Jeff I have the external with your Inlet hose. :disco: :banana:

419 whp on 93 octane :disco:

i have had a green on my car with the internal gate for while...and i have made alota 1/4 mile passes runnin about 25#'S of boost.....and i have had NO problems..

Maybe its cuz i have a XEDE and have had the car tunned right.

BTW i'm in the process of redoing my motor for the winter, i may or i may not stick with the green...if i do, we shall see what the limits of that turbo are with the internal setup.


How do you like the XEDE?

Just wondering cause I ordered one for use with my soon to be Greened STi.

How did you scale the injectors?? Or did you have someone tune it? I know Shiv has a Green specific map have you tried that one?

Thanks,

Aaron

Walbro?

Inlet hose is STRONGLY recommended when doing a green simply because of fitment issues. The perrin one fit but others say get the samco one.


Get a fuel pump man. You'll need it to feed a 400whp motor.

How do you like the XEDE?

Just wondering cause I ordered one for use with my soon to be Greened STi.

How did you scale the injectors?? Or did you have someone tune it? I know Shiv has a Green specific map have you tried that one?

Thanks,

Aaron

PM'ed you.

This is getting off-topic. I was curious why the silicone was an advantage specifically with the Green. Someone suggested, "if Green, get silicone inlet hose". The advantage seems to be in the installation, easier to get the silicone tube under the mani and around the larger Green inlet.

Separated issue is power gains from less turbulent flow provided by the silicone inlet hose. I'm all for two advantages instead of just one.

Another separate issue is all the "creepy" Greens--this should have nothing to do with the silicone inlet.

Another separate issue (my passing interest) is "boost onset" or "spool up". I think a silicone inlet can help with turbo spool up by raising the slight pressure loss at the turbo inlet that is seen with the stock inlet hose (parasitic "negative boost"), and by opening up the whole passage from the air filter to the turbo--a free-er flowing path would permit faster acceleration of the turbo's compressor (i.e. spool up). I would think "no air filter" would offer the very fastest compressor acceleration, but no one wants to run without a filter.

PERRIN when you say RED.. what do you mean. FP is designing a RED turbo for the STi.?

One last thing to hit on, people have been complaining about needing EXTERNAL WG with the Green. What i would like to know is do these guys have inlet hoses? And if they do what kind? I would expect this type of problem with the stock inlet hose, and the samco part. Both are a small diameter hose, and both will produce much more vacuum in the inlet hose than ours. When i say Samco, i am talking about the one that has all the aluminum fittings coming out of it. This one is just like the factory hose (small diameter, and big kink at the bend) but smoother inside.

Perrin PerformanceI am running an FP Green with a Perrin silicone turbo inlet pipe.

Last night, I turned off my boost controller (AVC-R), and went for a spin. Around town, the highest boost I saw was 1.07kg/cm^2 (15.2psi). On the highway, I floored it in 6th gear (something I normally *never* do) and saw a peak boost value of 1.10kg/cm^2 (15.6psi). Since the internal wastegate on the FP Green is supposed to be set at 15psi, I consider this to be perfectly acceptable. :)

Also:
- temps were in the 30s
- my Green has the 7cm housing

bboy,
Yes there is 2 advantages to the inlet hose. 1 being the installation, anyone who has done this will tell you the stock hose sucks to install. Adavantage 2 is the HP gain from greater flow to the turbo. On the "creepy" thing, i never said it will solve creep issue, i said it would solve surging issues, and boost control issues.

If you look at a compressor map for a turbo, you will see a surge line. This is line that indicates too much boost at low RPM/air flow, and this is where the turbo actually stalls when spooling up. When the turbo is tested, it doens't have a small restirctive inlet hose stuck to the end of it causing lots of vacuum on the inlet side. The extra vacuum in the inlet hose makes surge happen sooner. For instance, say the compressor map says at 20lbs/min and 2.5bar of absolute pressure (1.5bar of boost) is where surge occurs. Now your on the dyno with the green running 1.5 bar of boost with the stock inlet hose. Say for argument there is .25 bar of vacuum in the inlet hose. The turbo is actually running at 2.75bar absolute or 1.75 bar of boost. Since this is in the surge area, it will surge. When i had the green, our inlet hose, running about 1.6-7b bar I would get surge ever so slightly on cold mornings at low RPM. Its sounds like a very quick flutter, and it is something you can see on your boost gauge. I would see roughly .1 bar of this flucuation in boost. Some cars have bad enough surge problems that it create a violent jerking effect in the car. Ask Robert at FP and he can explain better. This phenomenom would be even greater with the stock inlet hose, which might explain boost control issues on some cars. This is also why some of the turbos have surge ports machined in the front of them, and huge inlets.

Carguyx doesn't seem to have boost problems, with our inlet hose!

As far as spool up goes, it will help because there will be less vacuum in the inlet hose, and the turbo will be working less to spool up!

Perrin Performance

SuperSTI,
Yes, Red, like the turbo for the DSM guys. Its been on my car for a month or so now and it really rocks! I am limited by the 7cm housing, but it sure makes it spool nice! I get 1.6 bar at 38k, and it will do way more boost, but still no pistons. Recently its been cold and i get about 1.7 bar, and it really rocks!

This ins't a perfect bolt on setup yet. We have a special new even larger inlet hose we are making, so it will bolt on. The other thing is one of the TGV sensors needs to be removed. Which means you need us to flash the ECU to remove the code for BAD TGV.

We did some dyno runs a couple of weeks ago back to back with a car equiped just like mine with a green. The green did 340ish, and the red did 357ish on the same 1.5 bar of boost. I turned the boost up to 1.6, and 385 was where we stopped. Since i wasn't ready to rebuild my motor that day, and i had a wedding to go to, i stopped. This RED is easily good for 450 at the wheels, which we will be pushing it to in a couple of weeks when the pistons are in! This will really be limited by the exhaust housing at too much more than 450, i think, but who knows!

It will be fun!

you would be the first then to have a fp red on an sti...i have yet to hear or see about that..didnt know they made a bolt on red...so since the gr green can make a litlle more then 400whp on 93 the red should theoretically surpass that on 93 octane? am i correct jeff??

I have been testing the RED on my car for a while now and it is the first one. Like i was saying, its not a perfect bolt on yet, but as soon as we get our larger inlet hose it will be. As far as the power potential, it surely is great, but how much??

I still guess the 450 is pretty easy (reasonable boost) to make with the right pistons. Your guess on 93 octane WHP might be a little optimistic, but 93 plus WI no problem. When we did the 425WHP on the green a long time ago, the WI allowed us to run 2 bar of boost in the midrange on 92. Even running 1.7 bar on the red (on a few cold mornings) my knock gauge still shows the same green lights with WI. As soon as the pistons are in, 450 on pump gas/WI is the goal. Our car is not a race gas only/driven only at the track kind of car.

Every day i beat the crap out of it with 400WHP and its holding great, as soon as the pistons go in 500 daily driven HP is the goal! It will be fun!

I believe the RED price is going to be a little more than the Green, call Robert at FP for the right price. I believe he can make them right away for those who want to try to make an inlet hose.

Perrin Performance

how's the spoolup of the RED compared to the GREEN? At what rpms do they hit 1 bar under similar setups?

On the dyno, i have DD logs showing the MAP sensor maxing out a 1.55 bar at 3800 consistantly. I the highway in 5th, i see 3500. The graphs from one turbo to the next show a little less HP at the bottom end than the green, but once it spooled up, it was the same if not more from the mid to the top. This is all with the 7cm housing, not an 8cm.

I wouldn't compare both at 1 bar only because its not the desired boost (in my situation), plus many turbos get 1 bar very early, but when you are asking for 1.5 bar, they can hit much later than the 1 bar.

Perrin Performance

Hey guys what's 1 bar equal to in psi again?
18psi equals x.xBar?

1 bar=14.7 psi=29.92" hg

1 bar = 100,000 Pascal = 14.50psi

1 kg/cm^2 = 14.22psi

http://www.onlineconversion.com/pressure.htm

Ok guys, We just got it tuned @ turboXS 325 with pump 93. We had a small exhaust leak at the up pipe (I would say around 10WHP on top end loss). everything else was perfect beside that the cat and the STi muffler choked the car to death :(. we have no choice as we don’t want to make the car loud. in total we can make 350WHP at the dynopack but with test pipe and high flow muffler. The car is pretty smooth and I like the power (very driveable). We are going some time soon for the race gas map after we fix the leak.

How much later does it spool as opposed to the stocker?

Lose the cat and it would smooth out even more.
What boost levels did you guys run?
Possibly with the test pipe and the stock excaust you may gain 5-10.
I may try it after I replace my ailing coilpack.
You are correct the car is much more quiet even from the standard TXS magnaflow axleback.
I wish I had 93 octane. :(

cheers

Nick

Lose the cat and it would smooth out even more.
What boost levels did you guys run?
Possibly with the test pipe and the stock excaust you may gain 5-10.
I may try it after I replace my ailing coilpack.
You are correct the car is much more quiet even from the standard TXS magnaflow axleback.
I wish I had 93 octane. :(

cheers

Nick


We are running 21 psi and going down to 18~19 by redline. The sound will be just tooo loud with no muffler or testpipe.

Nice time with the 11.4 there. ;)

hey guys I did the same mods with the fpgreen ,82 ,walbro,and decatted the car with uppipe ,downpipe and straight thru muffler and I am getting 320 whp at the :confused: dyno . it runs strong but it backfires like crazy !!!! any ideas ??? the tuner says no matter what I do it will backfire ?????? It's normal unless I put cats back in !!! *** ????

hey guys I did the same mods with the fpgreen ,82 ,walbro,and decatted the car with uppipe ,downpipe and straight thru muffler and I am getting 320 whp at the :confused: dyno . it runs strong but it backfires like crazy !!!! any ideas ??? the tuner says no matter what I do it will backfire ?????? It's normal unless I put cats back in !!! *** ????


Well more power means back fire but not always. I dont think that your car should back fire like crazy with the 320WHP that you have. If it was 400WHP maybe a bit but are you running extra rich??

hey guys I did the same mods with the fpgreen ,82 ,walbro,and decatted the car with uppipe ,downpipe and straight thru muffler and I am getting 320 whp at the :confused: dyno . it runs strong but it backfires like crazy !!!! any ideas ??? the tuner says no matter what I do it will backfire ?????? It's normal unless I put cats back in !!! *** ????
Are you running an atmospheric BOV?

yeah, what he said?

better use mopar

Yes it is a greddy BOV with a greddy FMIC and walbro plus turbo xs moded sti injectors to 820 cc.,FP green HKS uppipe and downpipe with a straight back vibrant exhaust. All the cats are gone.It is ecutek modded.There is a lot of black smoke coming out the back under full throttle.Does that help ?

Well, 2 things I immediately noticed.

1st. your car seems to be running very rich @ WOT. Looks like tuning issues.

The Greddy BOV will make things EVEN WORSE during gear changes during which you probably get lots of afterfires or backfiring as you put it.

Ok guys, We just got it tuned @ turboXS 325 with pump 93. We had a small exhaust leak at the up pipe (I would say around 10WHP on top end loss). everything else was perfect beside that the cat and the STi muffler choked the car to death :(. we have no choice as we don’t want to make the car loud. in total we can make 350WHP at the dynopack but with test pipe and high flow muffler. The car is pretty smooth and I like the power (very driveable). We are going some time soon for the race gas map after we fix the leak.


Just thought I'd bump this thread because its pretty good and I was wondering about the 325 figure on txs's dyno. Doesn't their dyno read kinda high, which means 325 isn't very impressive at all? I was totally into this thread until I saw that number. I mean, with a tune and a TBE haven't many surpased 300whp? So why spend so much more for 25 more whp.....?

everything else was perfect beside that the cat and the STi muffler choked the car to death :(

I think you missed this part ^^^^. That brings HP way down, especially top end power. Wish we could see the torque curve on this 7 cm^2 Green.

here is my dyno chart. I am now doing the TBV delete and a charge pipe and retuning with ecutek..


http://ktrperformance.com/services/Dyno_Graphs/Subaru/graph_04_STI_wcards.htm

here is my dyno chart. I am now doing the TBV delete and a charge pipe and retuning with ecutek..


http://ktrperformance.com/services/Dyno_Graphs/Subaru/graph_04_STI_wcards.htm

on what gas?

on what gas?


And what boost. Would you happen to have your boost curve?

Regards

Nick

interesting...

we did 267whp and 292 torque, stock turbo, stock exhaust, stock everything except our intercooler... on a mustang dyno on 93/94...

i would think with a green even internally i could tune to 365whp on the mustang on pump

cb

well, we were running 93 and I can tell you the car boosts about 1.5 bar..so about 21 lbs. I just changed the inlet pipe with a perrin pipe and the TBV delete. Also will change the charge pipe.hoping for 365 whp at tuning this week.Will let you know...

green is a very nice turbo...

good luck!!

cb

what ecu tuning method were you using ? :confused:

Anybody with Green on a 2.0 liter here ?

Update on the FPgreen project... came to our senses and installed a straight through muffler and test pipe and all I can say is the difference is day and night. Loud as hell and my friend calls it a farting HONDA but it holds power much better at top end now. Spool is greatly increased. BTW we have a race between the EVO and the STi coming soon so stay tuned.

Anybody with Green on a 2.0 liter here ?

many people do, it was made for the 2.0. check the 2.0 forum for info.

:eek: I made 296 whp on fis mustang dyno in mckinney, texas on a 2.0 usdm motor......with the fp green............ then i smoked a sti after the dyno tune ...........steve is great with only 18 psi great tuner.......on pump gas 93