I'm pulling the Auto Power 4-point rollbar out of my WRX because her racing days are over, but I'd like to keep up with the time trials (waits for all the; roll over blah blah, 5-point harnesses blah blah, head supporting weight of car blah blah - I've heard it and I might give you 50 cents to call someone who cares). Anyway, I'd like some feedback on harness bars - anybody using one? If so, what do you think?

I had one for a while, but ended up selling it and just using the Scroth Rallye 4. Only problem is the wider straps of a "real" racing harness are more comfortable.

I've got a speedware bar in my car. In order to have it fit with the b-pillar belt adjustments at their topmost position I had to 1) "recurve" the bar a bit, and 2) add longer grade-8 threaded bolts (about 10" long) to each of the lower mounts.

Installed with these tweaks, it's great, and I leave it in all the time. Legroom for the front passenger isn't great, but acceptable. For the driver, it's no problem.

I have 5-point G-force belts (pix in this thread (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=562941)) for both the driver and passenger. Great for track days or ride-alongs at the autox.

I also built a $5 camera mount that works great for in-car videos.

gr.

(also waiting for this thread to be hijacked by the roll-over blah blah... I just don't buy into that line of reasoning.)

You'll be beheaded! BE-HEAD-ED!

=)

Think about what? It's a harness bar. It does a pretty good job of sitting there with the harness around it. I have a cascade autosport bar and it attaches the same way as the speedware/etc. only it doesn't have the supports on the bottom. Imagine the autopower roll bar (which I used to have) except it's missing everything but the harness bar portion. :)

can someone explain why its so bad(having a harness bar) and with proof that is has actually hurt someone. I dont understand why it is a bad idea for the weekend warrior.

For proof, I'm sure someone will post a link to the pix of a BMW that pancaked after rolling at a track day. Supposedly the driver and passenger escaped without harm because they were wearing only 3-point belts.

The logic goes, if these folks had been wearing harnesses, they'd have been crushed along with the roof of the car. Therefore, using a harness without a roll cage to prevent roof collapse is bad.

Since I do track days with a harness bar and no cage, I must not believe in that danger. Well, I participate in track days with the knowledge that racing is inherently dangerous. I've had a trailer-only race car, and it's a lot of fun. It's also very expensive. So, I just like to occasionally track my street car, and I have more fun doing that with a five-point harness keeping my butt in place.

I know my limits, and I know the limits of my car. And I stay within those limits while participating in track days. This isn't to say I could never crash at a track day, but for me the risk is miniscule that I'll have any type of incident, much less one where a catastrophic failure of the roof is even a remote possibility. Could happen. But then I could also die in a car crash on the way to the track, or on the way to work.

hmm, saying they couldnt move out of the way the 3 point allowed them to? i guess i need proof..thanks for answering my question :)

I was in a street accident once where my car flipped and the most crushed part of the car was the driver side a-piller and roof. During the crash I ended up mostly in the passenger seat and then on the roof since the car was upside down. Had I had a 6-point harness on, more than likely I wouldn't by typing this response, since my head would have tried to occupy much of the same space as the roof did after the accident.

I use a 6-point harness when I autocross, but not when I do a track day.

i heard that you shouldnt use a harness bar or the belts without a roll cage because of rollovers.

Logic != proof.

my logic is that if your car flips you are not likely to make it out and anyone who has flipped a car is very lucky to be alive..Did you see the rally where the subarus cage smashed down(this year i believe it was japan although i could be wrong)....as i recall he walked out with minor scratchs and was wearing a six point. Yes i understand there was a roll cage but the cage collapsed, in other words basically no cage there at all....and he was fine or lucky you call it. Im just saying your logic is faulty.not trying to pick a fight just replying to your post.

Sounds like a hypothesis, which IMHO isn't enough to recommend against safety equipment. If one were to put together a gallery of images of the wrecked cars out there hardly anyone would be able to tell with any real accuracy which ones were using a harness bar or not, nor if the accident was fatal.

In addition people leave out the possibility that rollovers are much more rare than other collisions, and that in the possible latter case there's a chance that you're better off with a harness.

Then again I'm not sure I trust setups where people use the harness bar as the mounting point for the harness, versus using it as a guide bar... the SCCA should have it's own crash tests done like the insurance institute for highway safety or whatever.

now your starting to make sense my friend. I alsp believe that sparco and other companys that make the bars should do a roll over test. even used a old rally car or something..i dont know just do it.
Also im glad this didnt turn into one of thoughs arguments you see on the forums all the time.:)thanks for seeing what i was saying

The racing belts hot you straigt up in your seat during a rollover, not good if you dont have a roll bar. While the stock belts allow for some slack to allow you to slide forward. Basically when the roof comes down you dont want ur head to stop it.

No the seat holds you up. The belts hold you to the seat. Seats are known to collapse.

Why would anyone actually expect a harness bar to save them from a rollover? Seriously, use some common sense.

my logic is that if your car flips you are not likely to make it out and anyone who has flipped a car is very lucky to be alive..Did you see the rally where the subarus cage smashed down(this year i believe it was japan although i could be wrong)....as i recall he walked out with minor scratchs and was wearing a six point. Yes i understand there was a roll cage but the cage collapsed, in other words basically no cage there at all....and he was fine or lucky you call it. Im just saying your logic is faulty.not trying to pick a fight just replying to your post.It was the Germany rally. And the cage didn't "collapse" - it slowly bent (incrementally, bam bam bam), but didn't break. So saying it was "basically no cage at all" is completely false. The cage absorbed a lot of that impact as it was bending. If there was REALLY no cage, the roof and ABC pillars would have been absorbing that. Not a pretty picture - especially if Mills's seat hadn't been as low as it was.

john

It was the Germany rally. And the cage didn't "collapse" - it slowly bent (incrementally, bam bam bam), but didn't break.

john

Definition of collapse from dictionary.com " to fold, break down, or fall down or inward"

That is precisely what happened to Solbergs car. The A or B pillar bar failed (I forget which one seemed to go first) causing passenger side roof area of teh cage to collapse. The cause of teh failure was due to the roll over not due to the impact of the "roadside cement thingy" which the car made contact with behind the rear wheel.

The cage didn't totally fail (break) but it did collapse and in my opinion that is a broken roll cage.


The only reason the reason the codriver didn't get mushed was because he sits LOW. And his head was able to bend below the line from the passenger doormiddle bar(the one below teh window) to the driver's side rooftop bar. Had he been at the same height as Petter it could have been nastier.

joe

yeah i agree with you both i was just making a point that it possible to get out of a crash while wearing a harness. He moved out of the way thats the point i was trying to make. And i dont think a harness bar will save me in a roll over i agree that is just dumb to think, what i do think is that in a auto cross, rally cross it is very if not impossible to flip the car(in the ones ive been to atleast), so it would be nice to have the 4 or 5 point holding my ass to the seat. I dont know if youd want one at a track day, thats what ive been posting for to see if they are really that bad of a idea.
Joel