I was just wondering, I am on the list, haven't heard anything for a while. Just wondering how many people had them yet, and some feedback about the units.

........The information that the units would arrive at Element Tuning the second week of November was accurate and assured all the way up to November 4th when I met with Hydra during SEMA. Unfortunately I received a call while I was at Time Attack that the shipment is missing somewhere between Asia and California. What are the odds? I would never have asked for a deposit unless I was assured of an accurate delivery date.

We should know more information next week as the Hydra engineer left the US yesterday. Luckily not all the units were on this shipment so the next batch can be shipped out to the US next week.

I apologize for the delay…again.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Better use the "SEARCH" before the All too Powerful Gurus / Specialist / Elite tell you to !!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8124856#post8124856


We're all waiting for it !!!

I got this today:
"It’s been a rough one getting the STI units. The release date was accurate all the way up until the end of SEMA and then I got a call while competing in the Time Attack that a shipment had been lost. Unfortunately that shipment was never found and Hydra is collecting the insurance. Now according to Hydra they have 100 units for me which are being finished in the US but they had to wait for the parts that were missing and the last official word was that they would ship them to me in 1.5 weeks from now.



I wish I had more specific information but I hate to commit based on our current track record of release dates. Now Hydra is completely apologetic and is updating everyone’s STI unit for free to the closed loop AVCS control which was going to be a $150.00 upgrade. I told them no one cares, they just want their computers on time but it was a nice gesture anyway ;)"

(after almost a year's wait) I think that I am the #1 person on Phil's STI Hydra list, but only Phil knows for sure. I have not been happy at all (putting it mildly) with all the delays and false promises. I would surely lose my job if I missed so many deadlines to my customers, but where else do I go for a standalone? I think Phil is a good guy, but I just wish he would differentiate himself from the rest of the aftermarket community by giving accurate dates. Why is it so hard to get Subaru aftermarket parts? (Cobb, Axis, TXS, AEM, Garrett, now Hydra, etc. this means you)

I can understand them telling me it wouldn't be out until now 2 months ago, but every week I get the "It's 2 weeks away" answer only to have to cancel another apointment with Phil. Supposedly, I should have mine in the beginning of December, but we'll see.

I know Phil is only the primary distributor for Hydra, but he is still responsible for customer communication.

I just hope it is worth the wait and my car finally makes some HP after a year of sitting in my garage with an upgraded turbo.

This is a hard situation for all of us. Keep in mind the delays have cost Element Tuning a loss of thousands and thousands of dollars in revenue. We apologize for the Hydra delays and will give anyone that asks, a refund without hesitation.

We don't mean to give out inaccurate information but we rely on the accuracy of our supplier for release dates. Until I get a tracking number from Hydra I will not give out another release date.

Sincerely,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

wgnknestrick,

I know you have been waiting a long time for your STI Hydra but Phil is the wrong person to blame. I had one of the first WRX Hydras and have spent many days at Phil's house getting my car tuned to make the base map for the WRX Hydra. Let me tell you that Phil is doing everything he can to get them out but he is just the middle man here. He actually wanted the STI Hydra out before the WRX one because he knew there was more of a demand in the STI community but Hydra wanted to do the WRX. Phil is one of the coolest and most helpful person I have met. I understand your fustration but Phil is doing everything he can. It's well worth the wait.

Jeff W

We are all as frustrated as WGNNKESTRICK,
I think we just gotta know that new high-tech products are always subject to delays. Take Prodrive for example: I put off suspension mods because of their announcement of Active Shock Suspension - I'm a sucker for cool new technology.. so there I went waiting for Prodrive and their AST... and waited.... and waited... until I said screw it! and went and got some TEIN RA's installed last week they're sweet ! and I decreased my time at the track by about 4 seconds!

I sure hope the Hydra is worth the long wait! The alternatives (UTEC, Unichip, e-Manage, AP, EcuTek, Link, etc...) just don't measure up - based on what is claimed for the Hydra STi. I rather wait a few months for a hardware done right. However if you have your car non-operational.. uuugh! I'd be very frustrated...

Anyway ... let's just hope we get Hydra in time for X-Mas!

Phil - thanks for the information provided lately, even if it has been bad news... at least that relieves some anxiety for most.....

JRJ WRX,
I've called Phil a couple of times, buggering him "Will the Hydra work with my APS parts , Do I need resistor pack from my 720cc injectors, will it run well on Calif 91 gas...?" etc, Phil was always really helpful, informative and friendly, I know that he should be the last person to blame and that he is the 1st one to want those Hydra STi's ready to ship!

I talked to Phil at length today. Can you imagine having 100 units lost in the mail....I can't. I'd want to strangle somebody. The units will be awesome and set a new definition for tuning the STi. I think it will be a glorious x-mas.

Why not more WRX guys. There are lots of them out there. I wish they were more vocal.

Let me clarify: 100 units were not lost, it was a small initial batch that was to hold us over and some components until the 100 other units were completed. If 100 units were lost, I would just have thrown my hands up in the air and said it wasn't meant to be ;)

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

I also have been waiting for the Hyda for some time, but I could no longer wait. I have all the respect for Phil but this product delivery has slipped so many times that I have no confidence this will be shipped before X-mas. I'm happy with my ecutek setup right now, in the future I will revisit the Hydra.

To be honest my heart goes out to Phil, he has worked so hard to make this a success, and it must be painful (both financially and emotionally) to have this beyond his control. I'm sure that no matter how frustrated we are his frustration is an order of magnitude greater than ours.

To be honest, I really don't want to give any one but Phil my business. Now, if I understood correctly, we get an added feature that normally costs 150$ for free. To me that makes up a lot for the added delay that Phil had no control over. It actually worked out well for me because a deer hit my car a couple weeks back, and it is in the shop now. Which means if everything would have shipped out, I would have an pretty thing in a box that I would have to stare at for a month.

F(*&King deer, they love to beat on cars.....I'm sure the deer lost more than you.

Sorry Phil for the misquote, the sentiment is the same.

Miguel, congrats on that tune you've got again. You can always sell that EcuTek'd unit and get a Hydra, but I think EcuTek is a great product and tool.

Phil, if you've got the time can you explain the AVCS "closed loop" stuff....... Is it constantly adjusting the valve timing and what does it reference for "knowledge".

I have a 2002 wrx that I've had a hydra on since the 1st of August or so. I'm also running AVCS (I've got V7 heads). I ran a hillclimb within a week of getting the unit and came in 19th place out of 51 cars, having never run a hillclimb before and only getting 1 of my 4 runs because of wrecks on the hill that slowed the entire event. THATS how easy this unit is to use.

Currently the AVCS is not closed loop, but it sounds like it will be very shortly - this is great news. Right now, you set the solenoid duty cycle to a number, and you can't tell what timing your getting, ie open loop solenoid control. No feedback. Initially the AVCS maps sent out with the first WRX versions were WAY off - ie on the dyno having AVCS cost me 110whp. Unplugged it, retuned and went from 250whp to 360whp (I knew something was wrong, but I didn't think it was THAT far off! LOL). Let this be a lesson, do NOT run 100% AVCS duty on boost, it doesn't work :lol:

The solution was to log both an STi and a subaru with V7 heads - the AVCS map was basically copied from logs from those two cars (at least my map is, not sure about the STi maps). I have yet to make it back to the dyno, but will be doing so shortly - but I can tell you, I have a slowboy GT30-14 turbo (its basically a GT35, 65lb compressor wheel) and the car will accelerate from about 2200rpm, with full boost around 4000rpm in 4th gear. So AVCS is definitely pulling before boost is.

I would assume (and I'm sure Phil will correct me if I'm not :D) that the closed loop will allow you to set an AVCS timing number instead of a solenoid duty number. 30 degrees AVCS at 2500rpm/460mm vacuum. That sort of thing (its a 3d map, RPM vs. load).

Have patience guys... this thing kicks butt. Its SO much better than the stock ECU ever was just driving around town - so much smoother, no hesitation, no bucking at low throttle inputs, no backfiring... the car runs SMOOTH which is awesome considering the power output I'm at :) I have yet to hear of anybody that has gone through Phil and is disappointed with their unit. That says something....

I'd like to see a dyno plot of that turbo, that compressor is huge.

How are you dealing with tuning when you can only change one cell at a time? There are so many load points it seems like a hassle, but Phil says you get used to it. Do you have the wide band to help fine tune.

I wonder if you can gain access to the raw table files in ASCII format, that would at least let you export the file to another spreadsheet program.

I've heard next month (December) they are updating the software so you can change multiple cells at a time. Yes, I have the wideband option, and I agree with Phil - its not that bad, you get used to it. Space bar to edit, up or down arrow to add or subtract fuel, and then space bar to exit edit mode. Each cell.

What you can do to get it close is set a value at say 4000rpm, and then copy down from there. From there you let autotune take over and adjust, and your done for the most part (run conservative timing while your doing this obviously). The amount of injector millisecond time remains pretty close over an RPM range believe it or not - my maps show at 22psi for example a change between 13.6 and 14.7milliseconds with modded stocker injectors (ie 850s). This is also with a 1.1mm aquamist nozzle running a methanol/water mix, so those numbers are a little misleading (ie low) but you get the idea... its just not that bad. Let the Hydra do the work for you!

As for the turbo - this is the first time I've had a turbo that I've been blown away by for weeks on end. Normally you get jaded to the power, and need more (ie crack or herion, LOL) but not this time :devil:

I've had mine for a few months on my WRX and I am really enjoying it. Tuning has not been too much of a hassle. The base maps are good starting points and if you get the autotune option you can have the Hydra do some of the work for you.

I'm coming from a UTEC to the Hydra and I've got about the same amount of time invested in tweaking my Hydra map as I devoted to tweaking my UTEC maps.

The day has almost arrived. Thanks again for your patience.

Here's a pic of the final STI unit mounted to wet your appetite

http://www.elementtuning.com/ElementSTIHydramount1.JPG

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Wet my appetite, I wet my pants..... :D

It's amazing that a picture like that can put a big goofy grin on a persons face :D

offset

So that's the exact unit I will be getting.....looking good Phil, looking good. At least I won't have to post pics when I get it. :lol:

Has hell frozen over?
Has the fat lady sung?

I can't believe it !!

I just go paid too and got the $$ for that beauty !!
Can't wait to get it !!

Phil I knew you'd come through right around X-Mas time...... oh Jolly X-Mas!

I am patiently waiting with money in my checking account...

-George

Well, It's official. I should have that STI Hydra pictured above installed this Sunday. Keep an eye on PPB for dyno plots next week.

You Lucky specialist !

Drrrrroooooooool...... Droooooooool.......

Please do keep us updated - and thanks in advance!

I feel the way I felt when I was 6 yrs old and was getting my first bicycle for X-Mas!
it's 30 yrs later and it's nice to have that feeling once again... sigh !

I'm not sure who is happier, me or my wife. Me? because I am finally done with my car or my wife? because she finally gets her husband back from the garage......Me ;) definitely me.

So when do the rest of us get it?

(im)patiently waiting,
George

I'm not sure who is happier, me or my wife. Me? because I am finally done with my car or my wife? because she finally gets her husband back from the garage......Me ;) definitely me.

LoL !
Are you sure you're done? ...... hehe seems there is always some mod to work on,
The EMS is one of the most noticeable upgrades so that should keep you grinning for a while.... until you get used to it.. hehehe!!

So when do the rest of us get it?

(im)patiently waiting,
George

Soon, I hope!
I think the ship date is very, very close. Phil posted that "tease-preview" pics of the STI EMS and said so....

Well, I am departing for MD right now. Wonder what will be in my car when I get back today????

holy smokes batman. the day has finally arrived.

GodSpeed!

and thanks for posting status of your Hydra / STi

Hope to hear only wonderful things !!!

Patience is no virtue of mine.

-George;)

Well it's done. I have a couple of things to patch up this week. Keep an eye out for dynos. BOV was leaking, need a better EBC, FIA2 on my water injection was incompatible with the Hydra.

Patience is no virtue of mine.

-George;)

I started doing lots of suspension upgrades, to keep my mind away from not having the Hydra.... so I ended up spending thousands on coilovers, braces, RevLab quick rack, corner balancing/weighing, electronics, and track testing!

aah.... finished all that just in time for Hydra's release!!
Please no more delays - I got no $$ for Psychotherapy !
- Roland

lol@roland. Bill, glad to hear you are now amongst the few with sti hydras. Anything you can say about smoothness around town, power delivery, cold starting etc? Oh and dont forget to add hydraized to your sig!

I have already done STi pinks with Group N tophats and whiteline steering bushings, it handles the way I want it to. The next thing to fix with the suspension is the tendency for the front end to lift when accelerating out of a turn. However, before that comes some more power, just a lil bit more, I swear;)

My status as a college student hinders my ability to spend insane amounts of money at one time, so Im stuck with one or two big purchases a year.

"Good things come to those who wait"

-Geo

.....Anything you can say about smoothness around town, power delivery, cold starting etc? Oh and dont forget to add hydraized to your sig!

Yes - do tell .... I've heard alot of good things from the WRX Hydras, so let's hope that transfers to the STi as well!

Hydraized - aaah nice new term !


I have already done STi pinks with Group N tophats and whiteline steering bushings, it handles the way I want it to. The next thing to fix with the suspension is the tendency for the front end to lift when accelerating out of a turn. However, before that comes some more power, just a lil bit more, I swear;)

My status as a college student hinders my ability to spend insane amounts of money at one time, so Im stuck with one or two big purchases a year.

"Good things come to those who wait"

-Geo

Geo, yes, been there... no $$ except for books, tuition, cup'o'noodles, and an occasional date or booze.... but once you graduate and get a high-salaried job... you'll be able to buy all the toys you want (almost) Just don't get married or get a girlfriend right away - travel, do the mods & buy all the toys first !!

nice setup - you must be talking about the Antilift kit.
I did that one too! Nice upgrade- I installed the Perrin PSRS which uses spherical bearings.... noticeable improvement, mostly at initial turn-in, using the bearing instead of the bushings does incurr some NVH as it is less compliant ... but I love it !!! My car is certainly less comfy on the streets but I wanted to beat stock EVO's easily at the track - well I ended up getting better times than EVO MR's too !!! (heavily modified EVO's - those are almost unbeatable)
Check out my post and video clip from a track run at same track where the EVO MR & 05 STi were tested recently by Motor Trend !

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8273552&postcount=47

I've been going to same track 1st stock, then +swybars & braces, then + TEIN RA's, QRack, corner balancing. and it's been great to see actual improvements in terms of lap times I started w/ 1:38 - 1:39 , now it's down in the 1:33's
I hope I can soon go with the Hydra-enabled mod!

More patience guys. I have a couple problems to solve; some related and some unrelated to the Hydra. Good thing is, I actually have control of the variables needed to fix them. I need dynos to post as well soon.

dynos schmynos I want a car that runs well all the time not just when I mash the pedal. sorry for being up your arse about your tune man but its hard to keep the giggles away let alone my idles hands and mind at bay. hope you get your wi worked out and where are those dyno numbers? jk of course!

PS put a downpayment no my hydra today.

Got a chance to test Phil's new map that he smoothed out for me tonight. Car has much better drivability now (better than stock in most cases). I also turned on the "off-throttle" fuel cut which helps tremendously in stop and go traffic (Phil had this defaulted to on originally). Just have patience for now guys. All I can tell you is wait a little bit and good things will come. I surely wouldn't cancel my deposit with Phil for one of these.;) I don't have much time between work, fixing minor boost problems (fixed now), and giving Phil tons of feedback every day to keep up.

Me and Phil need to tie down the AVCS control right now. It used to have a slight buck, but now it seems to "pop-backfire" quite a bit on shifts around mid boost (10-12psi) My car is very close to be able to be taken down to Xotic for a couple of runs.

Good Stuff....
but I hope the STi Hydra is not still in "testing phase" - I thought it was basically done and they just needed to put the parts together??

Has anyone talked to Phil regarding "approximate" completion of testing phase - I know he is now reluctant to give dates since there are always issues that come up. But a ballpark timeframe would be helpful and since it wouldn't be an official release date then we know that is subject t change....

So I'd like to know if we're looking at 1 month, 2 months, 3 months?

Keep in mind tuning is never done and we are about two weeks behind as I’ve just received the production units to test base maps on. The only thing that we really need to finish mapping is the closed loop AVCS which is a new feature but has a large impact on the fuel map. This isn’t something the average “joe” will be able to tune well so we have to get it perfect so we’ll have it nailed down this week. It’s just a tuning issue however.

The “popping” is one reason why I prefer not to use the “deceleration cut” but instead tune the deceleration mapping area. Since it’s now enabled you must change the “dynamic enleanment” to compensate for the fuel cut. Simply increase the value to 55 which will cut fuel quicker, alleviating most of the popping. This is under “Settings/Injection.”

All this is normal and good since it allows us to offer more base maps to get you started since we didn’t have a GT30 bolt on turbo map.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Some days I think that one day I'll be able to tune my own car, then I learn that closed loop AVCS is going to have a large impact on the fuel map and that I'll need to change the "dynamic enleanment" value under deceleration....., and then I just wonder if it's all slipped from my grasp.

Thanks for the update Phil, I'll take another pill to calm me down. Keep going.

Well I think I've logged enough hours on my car to post a review. Please note that this is by nature mostly a review of Phil's tuning on the STI Hydra and not necessarily a review of the hardware itself.

It started as a very long day over the weekend. We first ran into trouble with the production Hydra not even wanting to try to start my car. My stomach about sank to floor with everything I've been through as this just seemed like another setback. However, after about an hr of troubleshooting, we determined it was my FIA2 (used for WI) that was tapped into the injector wires in the stock harness. Stock ECU would start the car, but the Hydra couldn't. We still haven't been able to pinpoint what exactly could be the problem. It could be wiring error (my fault) or most likely the FIA2 is not functioning properly due to some of the stock harness wires not being used by the Hydra. I just need to start working on a 3D WI map for the Hydra to run the HSV of the aquamist 2D now.

It took Phil and I about 6-7hrs total to reach a point where we were both comfortable sending me back home to PA (Phil didn't charge me for nearly that many hrs though :) ). At my current state of tune, once the car has warmed up, it runs like a champ. The throttle is extremely smooth throughout the RPMs and boost pressures. I can now run part-throttle and completely modulate boost by changing throttle positions. Anyone familar with the stock ECU knows that sometimes this is a very tricky area, especially with a FMIC, and large turbo. With the Hydra's MAP loading, this is a non-issue.

The first 10% of the throttle is a little "mushy" however as the Hydra just doesn't respond as "crisply" as the stock ECU. Phil claims this is due to an acceleration setting within the ECU. (I'm not sure if this can be changed within the Hydra software or if it requires a reflash). I've been able to minimize this with Phil's help, but throttle blips are greatly affected as you have to almost floor it to get enough RPMs to rev match. I think this is ever evolving and is being addressed by Phil/Hydra soon, they just need more data points, ie cars.

The Hydra's throttle seems to respond linearly, without the acceleration factor that was once present in the stock ECU. This just takes a little time to get used to and is similar to the mouse acceleration settings within MS Windows.

Cold starts are still a little out of tune, but we are working on them. My car in particular wants to oscillate RPMS for about 3-5s until warm. This is something that just takes a little time and wasn't present on the beta STIs that Phil tested. I imagine that almost every car will have some kind of problem unique to the mods and engine combo, this seems to be mine.

We ended up running 20psi on my FP GT30-12 with about a 11.2 AFR at peak torque running up to 11.5-11.8 AFR at redline. The car pulls very strong for that psi as is. Phil was fairly impressed with how lean he could run my tune without knock on the microphone level. Hopefully I'll get my WI management squared away, and Phil can go for the big #s on my car early next year.

Overall, I am extremely happy with the ECU, the tune, and the final product. I've waited for over a year with all the hardware on my car, but no EM, and my car sitting in the garage. This end result makes is all seem like a worthwhile wait. I had to lean on Phil a couple of times to get my ECU in, but he did everything within his power (including God knows how much in overnight shipping) to get my an ECU ASAP. Phil is a true pleasure to deal with, plus he has incredible after-sale service. I've talked to Phil on a daily basis since the tune, and he has initiated most of the calls. Hopefully Phil, and Hydra can keep up with the demand as I'm sure it is going to be high.

Bill

Congratulations, and welcome to the hydra club. Did Phil teach you the secret handshake? :lol:

As you become more accustomed to using the software, I'm sure you'll get rid of the mushiness. I'm sure its just an accel parameter for the lower RPMS that is a little off, but I'm sure you and Phil will get it worked out.

Yes, the hand shake. I must have missed that. Well, I just got back from a short trip, the popping I had is gone :), plus my wife just about had a heart attack when I gunned it in 4th gear and broke all 4 loose with meer turbo spool accelleration on the damp roads. This was her first ride in the "new" car that is a year old. Can't wait to see what she makes.

great to hear things are getting worked out. can you possibly comment on the spool up of that sbr-12? even better could you post a log snippet? that would answer many of the 34234546456 questions bound to come your way about your setup. hows the avcs tweaking coming along?

Spool up on GT30-12:
Starts making +boost at 3K RPMs. Full 20psi by 4K RPMs. (4th gear data). I'm just using the wastegate for boost control as it actually works great with that large flapper on these turbos.

I'll let Phil comment on the rest of it, he has much more knowlegde and experence with different turbos on Suby's than I. It seemed that he was "impressed" by it, I wouldn't say blown away, but impressed. I'll get a much better gauge of this turbo, when I get my alc inj setup and let Phil tune for max HP. My pump gas map is tuned for drivability, safety, and reliability. I would say that I am anywhere from 320whp-340whp butt dyno. The only thing is, this is the fastest Suby I've been in by far, so I don't have nearly enough seat time to give an accurate measurement myself. This does seem to pin me back in my seat on par with my father's LPE SCed Z06 (505whp, but he is traction limited) I still don't think I will be teeing off with him soon though.

I'll pull some logs this weekend for you guys. Now I sleep

goodnight brave soldier and thanks for the info.

Bump for updates.

bump for logs.

congrates to all you sti lucky bums...

Yep...
it's Monday almost .... need updates to make the wait bearable.....

the posts on anything Hydra STi serve as therapy for my Nemesis-anxiety disorder.

Looking forward to updates...

bump for updates.... I need a valium !

Sorry guys but Element's still waiting on the final shipment. I only received a couple units, one for my long term beta tester and wgnstrick.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Thanks for the update Phil -
Hope you get them soon and look forward to your updates EVEN when they're not the jolly good news we all wanna hear....

I know the Hydra is now closer to reality since you already got those 2 units !

- Roland

Hey Phil or Bill can one of you two post a log to hold us over while there is little info to be had?

coolant AFR (rpm) tps (%) boost speed knock air duty knock ret. boost cell X cell Y fuel vacuum advance
(psi) ramp temp cycle (%) (deg.) valve (%) pulse (deg.)
88 13.1 2,900.00 102 11.2 41 0.1 49 32 0 82.4 18 7 12.8 0 15
88 13.2 3,000.00 102 12.5 42 0.1 49 37.6 0 80.8 19 7 14.1 0 13
88 13.2 3,050.00 102 13.4 43 0 49 40.8 0 78.8 20 7 15.4 0 13
88 13.1 3,100.00 102 15 44 0.1 49 44.4 0 76 21 7 16.3 0 12
88 11.6 3,350.00 102 18.2 47 0.2 49 55.2 0 70.4 23 8 18.6 0 12
88 11.2 3,400.00 102 17.9 48 0.1 49 55.2 0 71.6 22 9 18.9 0 13
88 11.1 3,450.00 102 17.9 49 0.2 49 56.8 0 70.4 23 9 18.2 0 13
88 11.1 3,550.00 102 18.2 50 0.2 49 58.4 0 70.8 22 9 18.6 0 13
88 11.1 3,600.00 102 18.2 51 0.1 48 61.6 0 70.8 23 10 19.5 0 13
88 11.2 3,700.00 102 17.9 53 0.1 48 61.6 0 70.8 22 10 19.5 0 14
88 11.2 3,750.00 102 17.9 54 0.1 48 63.2 0 70 22 11 18.6 0 14
88 11.1 3,850.00 102 17.9 55 0.2 48 65.2 0 70.4 22 11 18.9 0 13
88 11.1 3,950.00 102 18.2 56 0.1 48 68 0 70.8 22 12 19.2 0 14
88 11.1 4,000.00 102 18.2 57 0.1 48 69.2 0 70.4 23 12 19.2 0 14
88 11.1 4,050.00 102 17.9 58 0.1 48 66.8 0 70.8 23 12 18.9 0 14
88 11 4,200.00 102 17.3 59 0.2 48 74 0 71.6 22 12 19.2 0 16
88 11 4,200.00 102 17.9 60 0.2 48 71.2 0 72.4 22 13 19.5 0 16
88 11.1 4,300.00 102 17.6 61 0.1 48 70.8 0 71.6 22 13 19.2 0 16
88 11.1 4,400.00 102 17.9 62 0.2 48 73.6 0 72.4 22 14 19.5 0 17
88 11.2 4,500.00 102 17.9 64 0.1 48 76.4 0 72 22 14 19.2 0 17
88 11.2 4,550.00 102 17.3 65 0.1 48 78.8 0 72 22 14 20.2 0 17
88 11.1 4,600.00 102 17.6 66 0.1 47 78.8 0 72 22 15 19.5 0 17
88 11 4,700.00 102 17.9 67 0.1 47 81.6 0 71.6 22 15 19.5 0 17
88 11 4,750.00 102 17.9 68 0.1 47 82 0 72 22 16 19.8 0 17
88 10.9 4,800.00 102 17.3 69 0.2 47 84.4 0 71.6 22 16 19.5 0 17
88 10.9 4,900.00 102 17.6 70 0.2 47 83.6 0 71.6 22 16 19.8 0 17
88 11 4,950.00 102 17.3 71 0.2 47 87.2 0 72.4 22 17 19.5 0 18
88 11 5,000.00 102 16.3 72 0.1 47 86.4 0 73.6 22 17 19.8 0 18
88 11 5,100.00 102 17.6 73 0.2 47 87.2 0 72.4 21 17 19.5 0 18
88 11 5,150.00 102 17.3 74 0.2 47 91.6 0 72.8 22 18 19.5 0 19
88 11 5,250.00 102 17 75 0.1 47 91.2 0 73.2 22 18 19.2 0 19
88 11 5,300.00 102 16.3 76 0.3 46 92 0 74 22 18 19.2 0 19
88 11 5,350.00 102 16.3 77 0.3 46 94.4 0 74.4 21 19 19.5 0 20
88 11 5,450.00 102 16.3 78 0.2 46 94.4 0 74 21 19 19.5 0 20
88 11 5,500.00 102 16.3 78 0.2 46 94.8 0 74.4 21 19 19.2 0 20
88 11 5,550.00 102 16.3 80 0.1 46 98.8 0 74 21 19 19.8 0 20
88 11 5,600.00 102 16 80 0.2 46 96 0 74.4 21 20 19.5 0 21
88 11 5,700.00 102 16 81 0.3 46 97.6 0 75.2 21 20 19.8 0 21
88 11.1 5,750.00 102 15.4 82 0.1 46 97.6 0 75.6 21 20 19.2 0 21
88 11 5,800.00 102 16 84 0.1 46 98.4 0 75.2 21 21 19.2 0 21
88 11.1 5,850.00 102 14.7 84 0.2 46 98.8 0 76 21 21 18.6 0 21
88 11.1 5,950.00 102 15.7 85 0.2 46 96.8 0 76.4 20 21 18.9 0 21
88 11.2 6,000.00 102 14.7 86 0.3 46 101.2 0 76.8 21 22 18.9 0 22
88 11.2 6,050.00 102 15 86 0.2 45 102 0 76.8 20 22 19.2 0 22
88 11.2 6,100.00 102 14.7 88 0.3 45 102 0 77.2 20 22 18.9 0 22
88 11.2 6,150.00 102 14.4 89 0.2 45 101.6 0 76.8 20 22 18.9 0 22
88 11.2 6,200.00 102 14.7 89 0.2 45 102 0 77.2 20 23 19.2 0 22
88 11.2 6,250.00 102 14.7 90 0.4 45 102 0 77.2 20 23 19.2 0 22
88 11.2 6,300.00 102 14.4 90 0.3 45 102 0 78 20 23 19.2 0 22
88 11.4 6,350.00 102 14.7 92 0.4 45 102 0 77.2 20 23 19.2 0 22
88 11.4 6,400.00 102 14.7 92 0.3 45 102 0 77.2 20 24 19.2 0 22
88 11.5 6,450.00 102 14.7 93 0.3 44 102 0 78.8 20 24 18.9 0 22
88 11.5 6,500.00 102 14.7 93 0.3 44 102 0 77.2 20 24 19.2 0 22
88 11.5 6,550.00 102 14.7 94 0.2 44 102 0 78.8 20 24 19.2 0 22
88 11.6 6,600.00 102 14.1 95 0.2 44 102 0 77.6 20 25 19.5 0 22
88 11.6 6,600.00 102 13.4 95 0.3 44 102 0 78.8 20 25 19.2 0 22
88 11.6 6,650.00 102 13.8 96 0.2 44 102 0 78.8 20 25 18.9 0 22
88 11.6 6,750.00 102 13.4 97 0.3 44 102 0 78.4 20 25 19.2 0 22
88 11.6 6,800.00 102 13.8 97 0.2 44 102 0 78.4 19 25 18.9 0 23
88 11.6 6,850.00 102 13.4 98 0.2 44 102 0 78.8 19 26 18.9 0 23
87 11.6 6,850.00 102 13.4 99 0.3 43 102 0 79.2 20 26 19.5 0 22


And here is why you shouldn't run stock STI injectors on anything but a stock STI ;) Duty cycle is maxed out and the AFR is leaning out of control so I had to keep timing very low. Make injectors one of your first modifications. This car was only equiped with an exhaust system.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Thanks for the log Phil. Ive seen one before but I wanted one that was STi specific. Glad I bought those PE850's. =P

Any word for those of us waiting for non sti hyrdas?

Duncan

mine is one the way :) just found out yesterday! had to post here b/c i wanted to tell somebody but no one i know understands or cares. lol

heheh.. congrats pux888 !!

We're patiently waiting for the STi units..... hopefully they're shipped before end of January!

That's it, I'm starting a hunger strike......I'm going to sell green rubber wrist bands that will become trendy and the proceeds go to OCD treatment.....cum by yah, (sway), cum by yaw (what ever the hell that means)......pleeeeeaaassssee, baby, baby, pulaeeeeeese send out mo' Hydras....

.....I'm dying of hunger already!

bboy hows the hunger strike coming?

I'm turning to the darkside of EcuTek...... I need the force

"Easier, quicker, more seductive. But, if once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your desitiny. Consume you it will!"

mine got here yesterday ;)

mine got here yesterday ;)

That is simply not fair to tease us like that. Any more details yet?

offset

mine got here yesterday ;)
Did you get the STI Hydra or the or the wrx Hydra?

It has to be the WRX Hydra. I have the only STI one and no more until about the end of Jan. :)

I just found an exhaust leak in my headers and I was leaking a small amount of coolant on my uppipe so I need to get that fixed now, but I have almost everything tweaked in my map. Still running like a champ

wgknestrick : I'd like to be the grinch that stole the Hydra STi !

It has to be the WRX Hydra. I have the only STI one and no more until about the end of Jan. :)

I just found an exhaust leak in my headers and I was leaking a small amount of coolant on my uppipe so I need to get that fixed now, but I have almost everything tweaked in my map. Still running like a champ
I figured it was. I think most people are waiting on the STI Hydra and may have thought he was talking about that and not the WRX Hydra.

its the wrx hydra, lol sorry guys. but hey its going on an sti engine.

There is more than one 'production' Element STi Hydra, but not much more. I don't know where to focus my grief anymore. You'd think these were one-offs scavenged from parts around the world, or they needed kryptonite or di-lithium crystals to run. I'm at the point of "if you can build one, you can build ten"-- so where are they?

I'm sure Phil wouldn't agree with this method, and I'll probably get in trouble for even suggesting this... but :D

I'm sure if enough people call Andrew at Hydra (his number is 510-870-1550) and ask whats going on, and why you can't get a unit for your STi, maybe all of us can light a fire under Hydra's ass so Phil can get units to you guys.

Just a thought :cool:

dude i felt the same way for a long time, and then out of the blue it shows. i hope you guys get em soon. im sooo glad to be rid of my utec!

Phil has made it sound like it is all just a shipping nightmare that will hopefully be over soon. Basically it is not his or Hydra's fault if that is true.

offset

If I thought it would get me one tomorrow, I'd fly down to CA and sit Andrew's butt on a blow torch, but I don't think it will make a diff.

Knowing very little about the "process" of building these units I can tell you from what little I do know, the problems are constitutional. Maybe encouraging a acid trip or two would spark more of a business acuem amongst the Quantum outfit. Money does not seem to be a motivator, because they are losing that quickly with each defector.

If it were a shipping nightmare, "what can Brown do for you" should be a first step. It's not shipping, it's merchandise--there is none. These things are leaking out of Quantum like farts from a 'proper' girl. Seems like Phil is sitting on his hands but she's not giving him the bump and rub. Biggest problem, IMHO, no other supplier. If I were Phil I would bring in another contractor (or two) immediately for future production and competition--this all your eggs (balls) in one basket is ripe for future trouble as well.

lmao:)

I called Andrew and spoke with his machine. I basically told him people are losing confidence in Quantum's ability to produce hardware post-design and post-testing. If there is something more to it (like one unit in ten passes QA. or whatever), he should come clean about now.

That will never happen - no company would ever say there's something wrong with their product (unless it may cause death or injury - like Ford's SUV's or toy recalls....)

It would be sad if the EMS came out so late that most people opted for EcuTek or other systems.... AEM is also suppossed to have something out soon... anyone know anything about the AEM unit?

To his credit Andrew returned my call. I'm not sure what he said other than they are ready to push units out the door now, and they have 100 boards to build off of. Trying to understand why they are trickling out is more difficult. Andrew is worried about liability issues surrounding DBW (an honorable goal). I'm not sure how long it has been since he has had resolution over the DBW. I took him to task by saying that a prototype of the DBW system has been in existence for a year now and that Phil OK'd units up until the latest production units. Why so few production units? He is still worried something might be wrong, again admirable, but in my opinion all the more reason to test the units in cars. We don't want any Audi lurching cars in our driveways, but I'd think the feedback loops and failsafes to overcome that defect were long ago solved.

He also mentioned another connector issue that was new to me involving everyone's favorite shady company Tyco. I'm not sure how much the Tyco connector played a role in delaying the DBW units, but Andrew thinks it did.

I told him if he's got the boards build'em, I hope the message from Phil is the same. I guess we will either see them very soon (like next week) or learn that there is a "show stopper" problem.

The units are actually starting to show up but what Andrew is referring to is that we’ve seen some STI DBW throttles that according to Subaru exceed the allowable voltage limits. This triggers a fail safe in the Hydra circuit to reduce the throttle for safety sake as it assumes something is out of spec. Again this safety feature is a must have even though Subaru has ignored their limitations on some cars.

Now we’ve opened up the allowable range by a small amount but there is a chance that some cars may exceed this limit and trigger a fail safe (just so you understand we are talking 1000ths of a volt). Now only a very few cars have exhibited this, in fact one which happens to be the car I use for beta testing. The worst case scenario is that if you have a vehicle that exceeds the allowable voltage but is running fine we can modify your unit specifically to allow just enough range.

Don’t call me to ask if one of these units is for you because those people already know who they are ;)

Happy Holidays!
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Voltage regulators, $2-3 at Radio Shack depending on amperage, for the whole car $20-30. Done.

As they say, been there, done that and they were deemed unreliable. All the testing is done and the boards are now done. Those were some reasons for the delay but those reasons no longer hold true since most of that testing was done and resolved three months ago. They just need to be shipped to Element so I can ship them to you.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Bump for updates......

....... Will the New year bring us a Hydra?

well - Happy New Year to all ...... and hope we get the STi Hydra soon.....

....... Will the New year bring us a Hydra?

hope we get the STi Hydra soon.....
1234

Any news Phil?

Bump for New Year's NEWS / UPDATES

mmmmm......... I'm seriously questioning the ability of the manufacturer to build these boards

You'd think they would hurry up, build them & ship them since they already spent so much money on R&D ....

I'm now seriously considering going with EcuTek.... I don't want to wait another 6 months :(

I thought that I could take the waiting, but it is driving me nuts.

Everyone call Andrew and see what'sup he told me: 45 units done and shipped by last week. I've heard nada from Phil, so I assume he did not deliver. He says he has all the parts to make the units, then I asked why don't you make them? He gave me a shtick about voltage and throttle fears that is posted above.

Andrew at Hydra (his number is 510-870-1550)

I feel we are justifiably frustrated with the whole process. I want to support Phil, but I also want to know if there is no hope for anything soon. If there is no hope, then moving on to other solutions is a natural outcome. I want to know what the hold up is, and if it is a technical one. If it's technical (or parts supply), we can move on to other devices. If it's a delivery problem Andrew needs to be "motivated" (i.e. penalized for each day it's late) to make and ship units.

True.... i think we have waited long enough.... I as most here want to support Phil. However, it would be more ethical from Hydra to let the STi community know the reality of things: are the units ever going to be shipped? or it will take 6 more months of waiting?
I'd like to know so I can decide to move onto other EMS !

So far no word from Phil, so he has probably been told that they're "comin" .... :rolleyes:

Yea, I just want to know one way or another, I have a DP laying in my garage, and parts on standby waiting to be ordered for the past months. I really want the Element/Hydra, it would just be nice to have some sort of definite time table, so you could decide if you want to wait or not.

I will have merge a my company with another in less time. I think Hydra is too small an outfit. I'm encouraging Phil to go with these:

http://www.ontronic.ch/

They are cheaper. New to the market.

That Ontronic seems like a pretty capable EMS.
Would Phil's work for the interface between the STi & the standalone EMS translate directly (few changes) into other EMS units? What about the DBW issue? or would it be like starting from scratch?

EcuTek is looking more appealing everyday, The "out by SEMA" date came & went, then ThxGiving, X-Mas, NYear's..... mmm what's the next holiday/event?

I'mma call Andrew @ Hydra so he can tell me "they're on their way" :rolleyes:

mmm.... Andrew just said "boards are shipping" as of now????
I just got off the phone (use bboy's-provided #)

Said there are "60" units getting shipped!

Can we believe that.... I truly hope so !!
I've been dissapointed too many times....

".......ecus are finally just around the corner. The new software is really nice but it effected [sic] certain parameters so I've been busy tuning."

".......ecus are finally just around the corner. The new software is really nice but it effected [sic] certain parameters so I've been busy tuning."

Is that from Phil?

This Hydra is more mysterious than Area 51 and the UFO's & Aliens that live there !!

Yes and Yes.

Confusion say:

If the ground is always shifting, it's hard to tie your shoe.

Here is something from the hydra forum

http://www.hydraems.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26

The important part for us current Hydra owners is the part about having to send our boxes back to get reflashed to use the new software, and also the price increasing (but who knows if Phil will bump his pricing).

http://www.hydraems.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26

The important part for us current Hydra owners is the part about having to send our boxes back to get reflashed to use the new software, and also the price increasing (but who knows if Phil will bump his pricing).

I see Andrew posted that info..... I talked to him earlier today and he said they were shipping 60 units soon....
Can someone else call and confirm and also ask if the new STi units will have the Nemesis 2.0 capability already flashed in and the pretty extruded-aluminum boxes as well .....

At this point just give me a board in a Radio Shack enclosure and I'll be more than happy !


Confusion say:

If the ground is always shifting, it's hard to tie your shoe.

Sounds more like a quote from Drunken Master than from Confucious

It's from Confusion!!!

Phil has already dealt with the pricing issue in a previous post.

The new units have the fancy box that will be underneath the carpet and the updated software. Hitokiri's Excel based map changes is much more elegant than the plus/minus of column data, but it's a start.

I can feel the hair on my arm starting to stand up... either Im about to get struck by lightning or this is for real and the hydra is really almost a reality on a massive scale. With all the rotated garretts in the works this is gonna be some good fun. Guys who get them first please dont go off tuning it for two weeks and forget to post back results!

edit for possible premature bananas... Lets just hope phil comes through soon.

It's from Confusion!!!

:lol: I thought u mispelled Confucious!



I'm not going bananas just yet... too long wait has killed my anticipation.....
I'll be jumpin fo joy when it's in my hands....

but Phil's been really silent.... perhaps because he knows they're on route and is busy polishing last details.... I hope!

Bump for info !

Can it be : Phil's really busy getting those 60 units ready for shipment !! ?? :confused: Hence no word from him lately !

^^^^

I reached Phil yesterday. Andrew is not telling the truth. Phil says he has recieved more WRX units but they are "trickling in" in his words. If Andrew does have these 60 units, he has not sent them to Phil. He checks the 'weight' lisited on the UPS website and he can gauge how many are being sent---never 60 unit's worth.

Phil said he is done tuning once again and has the "closed loop AVCS" wrapped up. He also made some changes to the main fuel map, possibly in response to the AVCS changes. AVCS tuning will be locked to the casual user. He also mentioned some changes for cold weather. The 'launch control map' is working in conjunction with the 'main fuel map.' The switch to activate is part of a clutch sensor that is used by the stock ECU to prevent starting when the clutch is not depressed.

Once again Phil is totally ready for his shipments and is sitting on his hands. Poor boy is getting a lap dance, when he wants the real thing. Phil adapts readily to any ECU changes, but there are still no units for disbursement. Andrew?

Keep bothering Andrew. Ask him how many? what flavor, wrx or sti? and when?

510-870-1550 Andrew at Hydra EMS

That sucks - I did specifically ask him "for STi"
Well - Andrew is perhaps in the same situation as Phil : waiting for shipment from Asia. The units are made in Asia correct? ..... I just can't understand that if everything is ready & finalized why can't the manufacturer make them and ship them - it would seem there has been plenty of time already and they should have solve supply issues by now - unless they don't think the STi units is where the profit is.... perhaps they're concentrating in makin units for other applications where they can make more money. It all comes down to where the profits are!

According to Andrew all the components are in the US and need to be assembled here. Normally they are made in Singapore. I really can't say what is going on if Andrew is the filter through which we gain information. The ECU doesn't change much from car to car, just the wiring harness. I doubt the profit motive since Andrew knows there are many waiting customers for these units.

If anything Andrew seems to be playing a game of "I'm worried that Phil will want to make changes so I don't want to make a bunch, only a few and then wait for the changes." I can't say why Andrew is worried, but I do know that an Element Hydra has been running a DBW STI for over one year without substantial changes.

Andrew claims "hardware changes" after New Year's after testing. Maybe he is not talking about Phil's testing. The only recent 'hardware change' I know of is the closed loop AVCS and that was made as a concession to Phil (and us) back in November.

Since Andrew has Phil's money, and Phil's butt is on the line more than Andrew's, I'm inclined to believe Andrew is the weakest link.

Andrew says six STI units on Monday, and five more by the end of the week. Hear that Phil, take cover, they're still trickling.

Andrew says six STI units on Monday, and five more by the end of the week. Hear that Phil, take cover, they're still trickling. so where did the 60 units that were "shipping" come in? Seems to be alot of misinformation going around.

that seems to be the case- misinformation... man I hate that- That's what he told me "60 units" shipping soon... aaaargh !!

well let me find a cave to crawl in and I'll emerge when the Hydra is ready...

just to clarify that remark was not directed at you engineerx, bboy or phil.

I believe you, he said 60 units. Phil has good reasons not to lie, so I believe him too. Andrew hides behind his distributor's public faces and their accountability.

Once the units get rolling, hopefully we can forget all about the obfuscation that is going on now, and just work with Phil and each other.

IBobfuscwhat?

Im just posting cause I have nothing to tune.

just to clarify that remark was not directed at you engineerx, bboy or phil.

hehehe! we're all frustrated and obfuscated (hope that's proper use of the word LOL)

I can only imagine what Phil's feeling after all the effort he's put into the Hydra/STI interface/tuning

Sorry my vocabulary gets the best of me, no offense taken by me, merely pointing out that Andrew is deceiving us. I'd rather he say that he is lazy or does not have enough labor to complete the order. I could live with those reasons, but deception/obsfucation/dissembling/lying is not good for business.

I did not hear anything from Phil today, so I doubt he got a tracking number.

I was saying the same exact thing bboy, just didnt want anyone to take my post the wrong way. god knows Ive pised enough ppl off around here by not carefully curtailing my emotion.

Phil. News. PLEASE.

Talked to Phil. He is still waiting for tracking # from Andrew. Can you imagine the frustration Phil feels compared to us? Good news is Andrew appears to have all the parts to complete the STI units, but he is ultra slow at getting them out the door.

The arm chair psychologist in me feels that fundamentally, Andrew is a worry-wart. He has worried about details that are of little importance and favored apocalyptic nightmares over the facts. He has had parts for sometime, but put off assemblying units for fear of a hardware change, that failed to materialize. He bought off tardiness with a promise of more features, but then these new features became an excuse for further tardiness. On top of all this, he has an arrogance about the Hydra as the only game in town and compares it to Motec, neither of which are true.

I think Andrew will be happier when producing units is just a routine task not frought with the anxiety of R&D--at least let's hope so for Phil's sake and ours.

So we getting new features?

The closed-loop AVCS (which is what the stock ECU has, and is a nice feature) and the "new" software, those are the new features. Better yes, 2-3 months further wait better, aaahhhh........., no.

One of Phil's long time beta testers (the last STi install) loves his tune 300+ whp with a TBE+injectors only. I think there are 4 production STi units total, and that is one, Phil has one, the guy in Oregon, and Bill in PA. So in the last two weeks not a single STI unit. Phil did say that all the pre-order list WRX units are now shipped.

Phil said he is making no "announcement" when the STI units arrive (burn me once shame on you, burn me again.....), he's just going to start shipping them out, moving down the list as he goes. Post if you get one.

Well I got my car back this past weekend from Phil. After waiting over 2 months without my car it was well worth the wait. :D It drives great and I haven't had any problems on start up in cold weather. Throttle response is perfect. I'm amazed on how fast this thing is with a stock turbo. The rev limiter is nice it kinda fludders instead of basicaly stoping the car. It's also nice to rev to 7600rpm. I couldn't tell you how the software is because I didn't tune it. If anyone has any questions fill free to ask.

rudyp what are your mods or is this a stock sti?

Mods:
Intake
TBE
800cc Injectors
FMIC
Element Hydra
BOV

Well I got my car back this past weekend from Phil. After waiting over 2 months without my car it was well worth the wait. :D It drives great and I haven't had any problems on start up in cold weather. Throttle response is perfect. I'm amazed on how fast this thing is with a stock turbo. The rev limiter is nice it kinda fludders instead of basicaly stoping the car. It's also nice to rev to 7600rpm. I couldn't tell you how the software is because I didn't tune it. If anyone has any questions fill free to ask.

Yeah ! you lucky SOH !! (STi owner w/ Hydra)

damn .... well - 1 hydra every month..... I'll get mine in 2 years :mad:

You must be Tommy. I heard about your car, sounds like it got the full treatment from Phil.

Right now there are STI units traveling across the country. I don't know how many (if you believe Andrew, 6, and 5 more ship Friday), and I'll be getting one, once they arrive, and once Phil can pour in his mojo. Now I have to decide if I want to do the injector/pump install myself or wait again.

If you are way up there (late April, early May) on Phil's pre-order list send him an email or call him. :banana:

If you are way up there (late April, early May) on Phil's pre-order list send him an email or call him. :banana:

I won't even bother sending him a postcard through snail mail then, I just put my deposit down last week and doubt I will be seeing mine for a good while yet :lol:

offset

Rudy,
Do you get some backfire issues on startup? Let me know, if not could you please email your map to
wgknestrick@rcn.com?

So that I could take a look at it. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to shoot me a PM.

Bill

wgknestrick,

When the car sits for a while it will pop when I start it sometimes.

Crank enrichment is a tad high in that spot... drop it by .5 at whatever temp its popping. My car does the same thing, but I like scaring the neighbors :devil:

Popping means the post start enrichment is too lean so I need to make an adjustment to the map so it doesn't pop. I thought I had adjusted that enough but it sounds like it needs more at lower coolant temps.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

*bump *

I got mine yesterday sent to my home. I ordered straight from Phil before he had dealers. It's a beauty, now I just need to get my injectors in and I'll be ready to go.

Phil has had my car since Friday. I had Big Al tune it previously with the Ecutek and it produced 425whp on 93 octane. He also made it more drivable than my previous tune. But there obviously were limitations with the MAF sensor. So I opted for the Hydra. Phil called today and said that the DR65 was similar to the turbo that he is running and the tune went quite well. He said the idle is awesome, with a bit of tuning. And the power feels great. He is going to finish it up Monday or Tuesday. Can't wait for the call.

I got mine yesterday sent to my home. I ordered straight from Phil before he had dealers. It's a beauty, now I just need to get my injectors in and I'll be ready to go.

Are you serious?
You got the Hydra for the STi ?

hot damn ! I can't believe it - it's finally out !! woooohoooo !!!

Post pics please!

Not much to see beyond what Phil has posted in the past. I picked up my walbro for install today. I don't want to do the injectors myself, just too many parts coming out. So now I'm waiting for my slot at W1 Performance.

I'll post picks and let you know where.

bump for slot and time. must get tuning feedback from the brave.

Here are some pics, with comments below:

http://www.imprezawrxsti.com/postnuke/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=18942

I'll take others if people want them.

Here are some pics, with comments below:

http://www.imprezawrxsti.com/postnuke/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=18942

I'll take others if people want them.

Thanks for the pics...
I'll just have to wait until my order gets its turn....

I thought the box was gonna be the extruded aluminum fancy type....
not that you can see it below the footrest anyway!

Mine got shipped out today according to Phil. How's your car running bboy?

I want to know how may STI Hydra Phil has shipped at this moment.

Mine got shipped out today according to Phil. How's your car running bboy?

did u get yours yet?

I hear they're starting to ship now....

I'm just installing today. Little trouble with the throttle position sensor, trying to work that out now. Injectors and pump are in and the TBE and headers have been on the car for months. Phil's not quite ready to do water injection outputs and fault detection inputs, so I'll wait on that.

I'll try to schedule some dyno time next week for a second baseline with Phil's map and post that up. From there we'll look into tuning, but I kind of doubt I'll get anymore than Phil did safely. Water injection and larger turbo are in the future, so I'll have plenty of tuning/tinkering coming up.

Are you getting tuned by Phil when he comes to Seattle next month?

I didn't know he was coming. It's always been a hope, but I'll have to ask when he's going to be here. Lot's of folks down in Oregon I think want to work with the Hydra and start tuning with it.

He's gonna be on a "Across the US" road trip - worthy of a rock star.....
He needs to get to So Cal soon too so he can tune my car :D

Well, if anybody in Oregon needs a hydra tuned, I'm sitting here ready to go anytime :D

I didn't know he was coming. It's always been a hope, but I'll have to ask when he's going to be here. Lot's of folks down in Oregon I think want to work with the Hydra and start tuning with it.

There was a thread about this posted in the Northwest forum by WorldOne.

did u get yours yet?

I hear they're starting to ship now....
Yea I have had mine for a week now, patiently waiting on my floor for the new injectors to arrive. When they do I have to put in new Walbro 255, 816cc injectors, Perrin DP, the hydra, and a new TMIC. I am planning on tuning myself with the help of Phil, so it should be a real test of the user freindly self tune capabilities.

Yea I have had mine for a week now, patiently waiting on my floor for the new injectors to arrive. When they do I have to put in new Walbro 255, 816cc injectors, Perrin DP, the hydra, and a new TMIC. I am planning on tuning myself with the help of Phil, so it should be a real test of the user freindly self tune capabilities.

hey thanks for the update - things are looking great as far as delivery of the much awaited Hydra !!

I'm stuck with some parts I bought nearly a year ago - before most reliable ECU's were available:
720cc's Denso injectors (low impedance) - however Phil says I can "try" to use them with a resistor pack to make them into high impedance
My dilema is I paid about $1500 or so - I forget - for the APS race fuel system / 720cc injectors / APS Tumbler Generator Valve deletes / SX regulator
and I'd hate to have to sell those parts and use PE's or modified Perrins
So I'll order the resistor pack and hope it works!

I won't be getting the Hydra anytime soon as I just recently ordered it...
The injectors might be to small.... but with the mild weather and 91 crappy gas here in So Cal they may just be marginal....I guess I'll find out

I got the APS rotated mount turbo, APS FMIC & 3.5" FMIC - I'll be happy to get reliable 350 WHP.....

All,

Just got my Hydra today and I`m about to install it. One quick question while everything is cooling down. I got the WB O2 sensor option. The sensor goes in the rear O2 senor location after the cat and not in the front O2 sensor location, right? Just making sure...

yes, but remove the front 02 sensor. I routed my rear o2 to the front location, and put the hydra 02 in the rear.

On the wrx version (and the EVO) it does not power the front o2 sensor.... result is a completely fouled sensor. I'm guessing the STi unit also does not power the sensor, as there is no reason to.

Are you guys kidding me,the wbo2 wont read accurately behind the convertor,the hydracarbons will be too cleaned up to help with any t uning.The wbo2 needs to be just a little ways after the turbo in the dp.And if you have any doubts about my abilities my 04 STI with a UTEC made 447whp and 456wtrq at 23psi on c16 with a very safe tune on a awd dynapack dyno at Quantum-Racing in Marysville,Ohio.You can bring up the dyno sheets on Quantum-Racing.com under customers cars.I also have a hydra ordr'd and paid for and will see 500+whp when I get it and can run speed density so i can more accurately tune the fueling at higher boost levels.

Converter? you mean cat? Umm.... I don't run no stinkin cats... I forget some folks on here still run those things. :lol:

Sorry about that :devil:

Fellas,

I think both of you are correct. It shouldn`t matter if it`s right before the cat or after. The oxygen concentration shouldn`t change, even though the hydrocarbons get oxidized from HCs to CO2 and NOx is reduced to N2 and O2 in the process. Based on conservation of mass, the amount of oxygen won`t change, only the types of chemical species change... :banana:

Fellas,

I think both of you are correct. It shouldn`t matter if it`s right before the cat or after. The oxygen concentration shouldn`t change, even though the hydrocarbons get oxidized from HCs to CO2 and NOx is reduced to N2 and O2 in the process. Based on conservation of mass, the amount of oxygen won`t change, only the types of chemical species change... :banana:

Aren't u glad u still remember your H.School / Chem 101 lectures!!

hey - where in LA are you - do you ever go to meets?
I'd love to see(feel) your Hydra at work !

All,

Phil sent me one of the first batches of the Hydra since I have minimal modifications so a custom map wasn't really needed. All I have is a Vishnu TBE (standard series) and a silencer delete (not really a performance mod).

Install:
Cake. I used the Rhino Ramps to get the front of the car up to get access to the O2 sensor. Fitment was pretty good, but the holes on the Hydra's mounting bracket were very slightly off so it took a little elbow grease to get it positioned. It helps to have a friend (with small hands) to feed the vacuum/pressure hose and the WBO2 sensor wires through the bulkhead. Most of the install time was spent waiting for the exhaust to cool down and the WBO2 sensor to cool down after calibration. It was nice to see the WB02 sensor already prepped with anti-seize...

In Car:
My statements below come with running the optional WBO2 sensor. In the Select>Settings>Closed Loop window, I have ENABLE CLOSED LOOP and ENABLE AUTO TUNE (With DRQ). Lower RPM Limit is 2000 and Upper RPM Limit is 8000. I've only put about 60 - 70 miles of highway and urban driving (part throttle and WOT at all RPMS) since I installed it last night, so the computer is still applying changes to the fuel map.

Start-Up: The car takes about 1.5-2s more of cranking time to kick on. This was both with the engine already warmed up and this morning at about 49°F ambient temperature (cold for So. Cal!).

Idle: The PID settings in the base map are set up pretty well. Idle didn't hunt around. Rock solid with the A/C turned on and off, and with the vent turned on and off. Coming up to a stop, if you press the clutch in with RPMs above 2500, the fall rate is a little slow. Engine speed will stay steady for a split second when the clutch is depressed, but then falls like OEM.

Throttle Response: Sharp! From what I can remember on my Evo test drive, throttle response is just as sharp. Any throttle change leads to immediate results, even coming from a no or low boost load condition. With the OEM ECU, there was some hesitation and engine lugging going WOT in 6th gear (~3000 RPM) from part throttle. Now the engine responds nicely. The sharp throttle response and extra low end torque make part throttle to mid throttle stabs much stronger than stock.

Part Throttle: No issues running on the freeway at part throttle. The Hydra controls AFR to 14.7 with my settings. If my eyes are telling me correctly, it also seems to modulate between lean and rich of stoichiometric just like OEM cars do to keep the catalytic converter happy. The cat needs to run lean to store oxygen; the engine then runs rich where its conversion efficiency is high...

Mid to WOT: In 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear, max boost is about 10psi based on my stock boost gauge and quick glances to the laptop. I believe the RPM rise rate is too fast for boost to max out to 16-17 psi like it does in 4th, 5th, and 6th gear. The driveability is still very similar to stock. Flat torque curve gives rise to a nice linear power increase. You'll never be caught in a dip or peak which might lead the car getting out of control.

That's it for now folks. I'll post updates as I drive the car around. Going to have the car dynoed sometime soon to see how it's running on Cal. 91 octane.

engineerx: I live in Valencia and have been to a couple meets, but not lately. I'm often in the Santa Monica/West LA/Sherman Oaks area so PM me if you want to meet up and peep my ride...

JDiesel

Nice writeup Jdiesel. Keep the reviews/news coming guys.

..........
engineerx: I live in Valencia and have been to a couple meets, but not lately. I'm often in the Santa Monica/West LA/Sherman Oaks area so PM me if you want to meet up and peep my ride...

JDiesel

Excellent write up !
Can't wait to get mine
Keep the info coming

PM sent - thanks !!!

I just got my car back from Phil yesterday. I have a DR65, PE 850's, DR 725 FMIC, APS 3.5 exhaust. I was having some issues with the idle and driveability with Ecutek. Since Phil installed the Hydra and tuned it, the car idles perfect and drives as smooth as stock. Its been real cold the last week, so he was able to get the cold start working perfectly. Three seconds and it fires right up. With the previous tune it was making 425 whp on 93 octane, 22 lbs at around 4500. Now its gettin 21.8 lbs @ 4200, and I'm gonna try and dyno it next week. He hooked up the launch mode and its pretty cool. So I'm finally having fun driving my car again. Thanks Phil and your car is pretty f-in fast!!!

I just got my car back from Phil yesterday. I have a DR65, PE 850's, DR 725 FMIC, APS 3.5 exhaust.....

DR65 - that's a huuuuuuuge, great-looking, expensive turbo !!

I got the DR55 and similar set up (all not installed) - Phil told me about yours.... I will probly end up using a variation of your map !

Sweeeet to hear people so satisfied !

Well all my parts are going to be installed by me in the next day, or two. Any one have some suggestions to help me out with the injectors and fuel pump install?

Bump because Phil said mine is being shipped as I type.

bump again because I got it in the mail today


-geo

Congrats George -
very promising as I wait for my place in line.....

Mail? I would prefer UPS or Fed Ex !

UPS it was

Idle: The PID settings in the base map are set up pretty well. Idle didn't hunt around. Rock solid with the A/C turned on and off, and with the vent turned on and off. Coming up to a stop, if you press the clutch in with RPMs above 2500, the fall rate is a little slow. Engine speed will stay steady for a split second when the clutch is depressed, but then falls like OEM.






What are your PID numbers, I have tried a bunch of different ones and the thing still wanders a bit, what what gets me is that it will be fine for like 3 hours of driving and then all of a sudden i get some wild, 300-500 rpm oscillations, then it will settle.

Matrix,

Most likely it's not your PID settings but instead inconsistent fueling between load sites. This can also be compounded by using "closed loop" under these conditions. If you have closed loop enabled under idle, set it higher to 1200 rpm and see if this helps. If it does then you need to smooth out the fueling around the idle cells. Make sure you induce the oscilation while tuning so you can see where it's rich and then lean.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Any more people gotten their Hydra STi?
I Just want to read people are receiving their EMS.. kind of helps with my wait .... :D

Sweet!!

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I received I last week.

I just checked my bank account this morning and was greeted with the pending purchase...

02/10/2005 SIGNED PURCHASE ELEMENT TUNING POS

Of course I hope they don't send me a Piece of ***** ;)
(Point of Sale actually I think)

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I also received mine last week. Hopefully Ill get some time on it sooner than later.

Sweeeet - I feel as if I won the lottery , eventough my bank acount balance shrank by $1500+ from an Element Tuning charge!!!

That means the Hydra EMS is on its way - this deserves a troop of funky dancing bananas !!!

http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/dancingbanananew.gifhttp://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/dancingbanananew.gifhttp://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/dancingbanananew.gifhttp://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/dancingbanananew.gifhttp://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/dancingbanananew.gifhttp://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/dancingbanananew.gif

I can't believe the fate of my timing on this one. I will be out of town all weekend so no time for my car this week. And I have it all torn apart right now anyway as I have been working to get some other things installed under the hood. I already have the my Helix DP / Greddy EVO2 exhaust on at least. I will be happy to have everything put back together before the end of February :(

http://www.donet.com/~offset/images/Hydra.jpg

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I can't believe the fate of my timing on this one. I will be out of town all weekend so no time for my car this week. And I have it all torn apart right now anyway as I have been working to get some other things installed under the hood. I already have the my Helix DP / Greddy EVO2 exhaust on at least. I will be happy to have everything put back together before the end of February :(

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Hahaha ! - that makes 2 - I'm going on vacation for 10 days this Thursday so I'll be out of the country until Feb 26th ! The EMS was due to ship this week - i called Phil just to check and that's when he gave me the news! I would've re-scheduled my trip had I known- but I got one of those bargain fares that you can't change w/o major fees... so off I go.... Sun Feb 27th I'm going to a track event @ Buttonwillow Raceway here in California..... wish I had the EMS already in....
Just can't believe it's shipping !!!!
I think I got so used to the anticipation and anxiety of getting the Hydra - now I'm gonna miss that feeling !

Engineerx I'll see you there =) I'll be the white STi with the gold volks and FMIC..

ButtonWillow was fun... except some jerk was poking fun at my buddy for having made contact with the tire barriers.....

aaaah..... finally had some free time to install the HydraEMS....
all I gots to say is Phil has made it too easy !! hehehe... even a noob like me can install it in about 1 hr (longer if you install the wideband O2 sensor)

I followed the instructions for installation and the Element Tuning Guide #1 (important so you can calibrate the Throttle position for your car)

After following all steps.... I cranked the engine and the STi started on the first try !
Idle was smooth - same as stock !!! .... I still have to road test it..... and install the Wideband sensor

here are some pics and video of Hydra in action :disco:

VIDEO

http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/hydraECU.wmv

http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/hydraECU.jpg

That's the baby. I strongly suggest that one the first things you do is log some data with the Hydra and see if it makes sense. For instance, what's the air temperature. Is it in the realm of possibility or is your Hydra reading in Siberia while your car is in Tennessee. The air temp sensor is a little slow to react. If you have the wide band O2 sensor make sure that the values at least change and go richer under acceleration. Check to see if the vehicle speed is remotely accurate, watch for spurious 228 MPH indications (they happen). If you are using the Hydra for boost control and and you are underboosting. First try increasing the max values in PWM map 4 (under 2D maps). If the boost does not change after upping the map values contact Phil about getting another harness or wiring the boost solenoid to the Hydra correctly.

Phil tuned my car on the dyno on Thursday, but the dyno set up was less than ideal--very warm under hood temps, poor radiator and intercooler ventilation. I ended with 285 whp on the dyno (up from 255 whp stock), but subsequent road testing has shown that the dyno conditions were just too demanding compared to the real world. So far, I've pulled 3 degrees of timing across the whole spark map, and 4 degrees in a few places. I leaned out the whole "on boost" fuel map by 1%, except for a lean spot at 5700 RPM, to which I added back 0.5% after leaning. I have not recorded any detonation yet. I'll be leaning out the 4000 RPM by 18 psi area as well, which is down in the 10's AFR (this has happened because I have lowered the peak boost from around 20 psi to around 18.5 psi and that load site was not as highly tuned as the higher one).

I'll take the car back and check the HP again later this week or next, after tuning for water injection as well. I'm hoping I pick up another 10-15 whp with the additional tweaking of the maps, and we'll just have to see what the water injection does for me.

I also have some interesting data on exhaust gas temperatures that I will post when I have a more complete story to tell.

I have a TBE, headers, and the stock turbo.

The Element Hydra is a joy to tune with (so many tools, incredible resolution) and Phil has pretty much nailed all the idle, enrichment, and adjustment variables, such that the car drives like stock, only better.

Excellent info BBOY ! - thanks
I'm a noob at tuning so learning as I go - I was going to just drive the car "easy" to the shop where the stage 4 parts are going to be installed and then get someone to tune it for me here in SoCalif ( Los Angeles ) area.

I'll have to read up on the data-logging process tonite !
Hopefully Phil can make a stop around here soon...

How do we setup the Turbo Timer function. I notice you gotta pic a sensor slot to put it in?? SO does this mean I need an aftermarket timer or will the Hydra do it? Just wondering, as I've yet to install it and from what I've been hearing I need to remove my aftermarket TT cause of the different wiring in the Hydra.

I advocate logging to test out the Hydra.

It's easy Tools-->Log Data-->Stop-->Set Hz from 1-16-->Start button starts the logging again.

Let's just say I've had my fair share of troubles and most of them could have been avoided if Andrew would have just tested the units before shipping. Specifically my boost control output pin was in the wrong spot (still is) and the first unit I had had no temperature reading. All told, I've had three Hydras and two wiring harnesses. I'm the most unlucky Hydra user in existence, but I'm enjoying it now.

I've never seen anything that you can set a timer within the Hydra software (PWM is in msec, you'd need a few million to use as a timer), so I don't really see a TT being run with the Hydra. You could probably rig one based on some component of the engine cooling down, then switch off after that set point was obtained. Call it thermal timing, but that could also be done without the Hydra's assistance.

So I would just select the "Log Data" command and drive the car w/ the laptop logging the data?

I'll try it this weekend... in the mean time I'm driving my recently acquired $400 '88 CRX HF !!

I advocate logging to test out the Hydra.

It's easy Tools-->Log Data-->Stop-->Set Hz from 1-16-->Start button starts the logging again.

Let's just say I've had my fair share of troubles and most of them could have been avoided if Andrew would have just tested the units before shipping. Specifically my boost control output pin was in the wrong spot (still is) and the first unit I had had no temperature reading. All told, I've had three Hydras and two wiring harnesses. I'm the most unlucky Hydra user in existence, but I'm enjoying it now.

I've never seen anything that you can set a timer within the Hydra software (PWM is in msec, you'd need a few million to use as a timer), so I don't really see a TT being run with the Hydra. You could probably rig one based on some component of the engine cooling down, then switch off after that set point was obtained. Call it thermal timing, but that could also be done without the Hydra's assistance.

Well, there's a sensor page, I forget where it is now but its all the outputs and there are several options, one being a turbo timer for the output option.

I assume then that we need an external timer???

Excellent info BBOY ! - thanks
I'm a noob at tuning so learning as I go - I was going to just drive the car "easy" to the shop where the stage 4 parts are going to be installed and then get someone to tune it for me here in SoCalif ( Los Angeles ) area.

I'll have to read up on the data-logging process tonite !
Hopefully Phil can make a stop around here soon...

Nice vid man! I noticed n your wiring harness it looked like you had some extra wires tapped in. Are those for a TT or some electronic guages? If so did you have to wire it different for the Hydra vs the stock ecu?

Thanks man!

One thing that is concerning me (annoying me?) is that the Hydra info, scarce as it is (which makes every bit more valuable) is being spread all over a bunch of threads that are hard to track down :(

Have you guys considered using wrxhackers.com, which has a new Hydra forum?

It only makes sense to me to have a single organized area for Hydra-specific topics.

It's unlikely I will post or monitor WRX Hackers so maybe you guys should pull up my tuning guides thread here on Nasioc and post questions there.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

jblaine, I could not agree more.

I plan on consolidation on the "new" Hydra forum. lowturboboost contacted me about the new site:

http://www.hydratuning.com

Edit: it's already belly up :eek:

My only worry is that it will go belly up and the info will be lost. I'd love to carve out a spot on NASIOC, but the likelihood of that is zero. Running a forum off of Phil's Element Tuning site would be a good route as well. I'm not sure Phil wants to manage it, but maybe if he hosts at least the info will be preserved.

Back to this thread:
Logging Data with Tools-->Log Data only requires that the Hydra software be "on-line". The simplest way of ensuring an online connection is to start your car, plug in your laptop, start the Nemesis software, click the up-load button, chose the appropriate COM port COM1-4, click Upload. You'll hear the fuel pump pulse and the update bar fill with blue. After Upload is complete, it will say "untitled.s20" in the upper part of the software window, where as before it said "template.s20". Exit the Upload pop-up window, and click the Maps button. Now you'll see the "on-line" in the upper left red window, and all the "gauges" will be active. Change the "mode" on the gauges to read in numbers.

If you click in the Track RPM and Track Load buttons (upper right box shaped), the Hydra will track your RPM and load sited in the fuel and spark maps. If you change to the "Knock Limit" map you graphically see each "knock count". You want these counts below the yellow line.

Now go to Tools-->Log Data and it will immediately begin logging data at 1 Hz (once per second). If you want to change the Hz setting, temporarily Stop the logging, change the Hz value, and then start again.

Data logging is great for detailed data. Tracking is great for getting an overall picture of whats going on with fuel, spark, and knock over an entire RPM and load range. These are some awesome tuning tools folks!!!

AntiMullet : the wires are from the Compustar alarm I installed a few months ago - one is for sensing the rpms (for remote start) and the other for the neutral position switch. I left them connected and the alarm still works the same - it can still start the car. I also wired in a Blitz TT to work in conjunction w/ alarm. I had to use a couple of 6W diodes to isolate the alarm IGN ON lead.

BBOY : if you were to consolidate all the Hydra stuff... well.... you'd be greatly praised by all of us Hydra-noob users like me. Thanks for the info you've been posting !

Thanks engineerx!

BTW, I tried to get my hydra up today but no joy. I'm using a laptop with POS Windows XP. Any advice on settings? I'm using COM1.

Right-click on the "My Computer" icon on your desktop click properties / Hardware tab / Device Manager button / scroll down to "Ports" - check that your laptop is using COM1
You can also just try selecting COM2 or COM3 from the Hydra software
Also make sure your baud rate is 9600 and check the serial cable

I used WinXP and my laptop uses COM2 .. worked fine.
good luck

Phil said "maybe" to hosting a Hydra Tuning forum. He wants stuff in NASIOC for now. The guy is busy, busy, busy right now.

The COM1, COM2 thing....engineerx has it right, but it's easier to just try COM1, the 2....and so on. No harm to trying each. Mine is COM3 under Virtual PC on my Mac and it's COM4 using my wife's Toshiba running XP.

As for consolidation. I'll play my part. The two best sources are Phil's finest Tuning Guides and there is also a site in Australia. http://www.mdac.com.au/ The problem with the mrcontrols site is that it is full of errors. It's almost more of a dis-service than a service, plus it's dealing with old software.

For now I have two planned posts in NASIOC that can be transferred where-ever at a later date. One is on tuning boost control with the Hydra for those who want to do that. The other will be on setting up and running water injection with the Hydra (that's in the works right now and requires Phil's blessing as well as Richard Lamb of Aquamist).

I'm hoping Phil puts out a Nemesis Software Tools guide soon. There are lots of neat ways to track what the engine and Hydra are doing that I have yet to discover.

In terms of actual power tuning guidance, I think that will be awhile. I'm still learning a lot and even Phil is still learning. He has the most experience tuning the Hydra, but he has not seen every set up. In terms of the base maps that he sends out there is still some left on the table, but there should be. Also the resolution of the Fuel and Spark maps is way more than my little stocker can use. I'd say I about 2/3 of those maps' "surface".

I'll straw man a few posts and take the heat. We'll see who (there are experience Hydra tuners out there and they are not posting) we can pull out of the walls. There are now over 200 Hydra's in Subarus (and at least one Evo). :D That is very cool!!

Awesome ! I'll be following your posts on the WI setup - That's something I definitely will do .... specially with the California 91 crappy gas we get here!

Antimullet just mentioned that he called Element and that helped him out with the port problem. He was running Palm software that would grab port 1, so that is now disabled or uninstalled and he is up and running. I would say he hasn't posted back because he is now too busy playing around with the Hydra :lol:

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