well guys, after about 5 months of not having my car, I made it out to the drags tonight. I was nervous about running my dying stock tranny on my 02', so my shifting was not the best it could have been, although still quick. I was slipping the clutch all night pulling 2.0's and an 1.9's. I ended up getting a couple 1.8's. But I guess my question is, how do you guys get 1.6's and 1.7's. Do you have to dump the clutch? I trapped 111mph 2 times, then the rest of the night I ran 107's. I dont know whats up with that, besides the car being too hot maybe. I ran 13.0's all night as well. Thats with 1.9 60 foots and 110 traps. I thought that combo could get me 12.7 or so.
Anyways my best slip of the night was: 60'= 1.840
330'= 5.93
1/8th= 8.308
1/8th mph=84.307
1000'=10.734
1/4 ET= 12.917
1/4mph= 107.239

So tell me whats up. I used to run 12.7 at 110 on the WRX motor with the 1820 with similar 60's, so I cant figure out whats up. A couple of runs I had alot of wheel spin, but I dont think it was a factor in my 60's being in the 2.0 range.

I made 307.9 whp on the Dyno Dyanmics Dyno also. I run an 1820 and a DR650 FMIC on an Axis stage 4 block and ported WRX heads with JUN 272 cams, and Axis valvetrain. By the way, on the last run I ruined my year old Exedy single plate clutch. :( All runs on 91 oct of course.
Any help would be appreciated. :)
f

before somebody points you toward the truth thread... its probably your driving. look at the slips. 111mph traps clearly show that youre making the power, but your best et of 12.9 is more than half a second slower than what you should be running. for that run, the launch was decent, but the et was still off. that points toward shifting, especially since that run was 4mph slower than your best trap. maybe you should look at your shifting methods, especially if youre toasting clutches.

-ed

looks like a JDM 6-speed is in your future. :)

but yeah, with 111mph traps, you should be LOW 12s. if you cant abuse the tranny enough to get there, then you need to get something in there that you can. ;)

thanks for the replies guys. I know it was my driving, I was just wondering how you all shift. Do you take your foot off the gas at all between shifts, or do you stay on it? You can only bang the gears so fast it seems but if shifting is my problem, then I would hate to see what I would do with a 6-speed :( But I blew the clutch on the last run, probally because an Exedy single plate cannot hold the power, and because its been trying for a year now, and I had made over 10 runs in a row, and I got a little stupid on the last run.

Umm, with all the money you spent on your setup, why dont you just buy a bigger turbo while you are at it? I mean, you have a really nice setup, but I think that turbo is not really the best solution if you want fast times.

Umm, with all the money you spent on your setup, why dont you just buy a bigger turbo while you are at it? I mean, you have a really nice setup, but I think that turbo is not really the best solution if you want fast times.


I seem to be out of money, the motor broke me. :( I am looking at a trans an clutch now though. I know that the car has better times in it as it stands right now, and I wanted to get there before going big you know. I was curious as to what everyone would attribute the slow times too. It seems to me I am shifting as fast as I did running 12.7 last year. I also only have to shift 2 times, as I cross the traps in 3rd gear at 8200rpms. So that mmakes shifting a small obstacle for me. I dont think I can gain .5 seconds by shifting to 2nd gear faster. Uhh, Im just frustrated.

I kind of am in the same situation as you are right now. My stock engine turbo settup I was able to pull 12.51@109. I changed with a header, turbo and smoked the clutch. Went out and did a 12.6@116 :confused:

The new clutch is slipping bad so it may have been what is happening to you?

Ok, admittedly I know absolutely nothing about drag racing, but I do know that after changing my turbo and upgrades that my shift points (for maximizing power/torque) have changed.

For example, I'm making my peak torque down low in the rev range and my torque falls off dramatically towards redline. If I'm shifting higher up toward rev range I lose all the benefits of the power I gain. I still may have more power in the higher end than my bone stock setup, but I'm just not maximizing the power I have under the curve.

Case in point. STI Accessport users don't really improve their times that much. They have all this great torque downlow but they completely miss this power because they're completely missing their power curve.

Again I could be wrong about this, it's just an observation.

Ok, admittedly I know absolutely nothing about drag racing, but I do know that after changing my turbo and upgrades that my shift points (for maximizing power/torque) have changed.

For example, I'm making my peak torque down low in the rev range and my torque falls off dramatically towards redline. If I'm shifting higher up toward rev range I lose all the benefits of the power I gain. I still may have more power in the higher end than my bone stock setup, but I'm just not maximizing the power I have under the curve.

Case in point. STI Accessport users don't really improve their times that much. They have all this great torque downlow but they completely miss this power because they're completely missing their power curve.

Again I could be wrong about this, it's just an observation.


Yeah, thats a good assesment. I see exactly what you are saying, and looking at my graph, I have max power at 6800rpm, and max torque I believe at 5500rpm or so, I really cant remember and will check on that. I shift out of 1st gear at 8000, and the rest I shift at 7500rpm. Gotta get under that peak torque.
2002WRXSTI, my clutch held for a bit, and only slipped a tad in the later runs in 3rd gear. Now it slips even on light acceleration on the street, I cant even pass in the left lane!!! :( What launch technique do you use, and what clutch are you going with next? Thanks again for the replies.

Also you're shift points will very from gear to gear too, as engine load will dictate when you're turbo kicks in creating power.

I also only have to shift 2 times, as I cross the traps in 3rd gear at 8200rpms.

:huh: thats a lot of revs. are you making ANY power there at all? do you loose too much boost if you shift to 4th?

:huh: thats a lot of revs. are you making ANY power there at all? do you loose too much boost if you shift to 4th?

I know, but as I mentioned earlier, I do make my peak power right at 7000rpm, and it holds decently till 8000 as well. Im guessing its because of the cams. I would shift butr it seems convenient just to leave it in 3rd, plus 4th gear synchro is gone, and it grinds like hell going in you know. I tried shifting early into 4th a couple of times and I lost too much time on it.

2002WRXSTI, my clutch held for a bit, and only slipped a tad in the later runs in 3rd gear. Now it slips even on light acceleration on the street, I cant even pass in the left lane!!! :( What launch technique do you use, and what clutch are you going with next? Thanks again for the replies.
Here is my Dyno sheet on C16 (http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=70474&img=405hp.jpg) I tryed a bunch of different launch styles but none worked :( The HyperCarbon Twin Disc has a lightwieght flywheel which I think is half my problem launching.

I did a few different launch RPM's but no matter what I bogged. My best 60' was 2.1 with this new settup. My redline is 8500 but I tryed to shift at different point on a lot of runs and came up with the same dismal time slips.

As for what clutch I go for next is up in the air. I can't get my hands on anyone from Exedy to aks some questions and it's pissing me off :mad: When I finally find something out I will post about it.

Here is my Dyno sheet on C16 (http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=70474&img=405hp.jpg) I tryed a bunch of different launch styles but none worked :( The HyperCarbon Twin Disc has a lightwieght flywheel which I think is half my problem launching.

I did a few different launch RPM's but no matter what I bogged. My best 60' was 2.1 with this new settup. My redline is 8500 but I tryed to shift at different point on a lot of runs and came up with the same dismal time slips.

As for what clutch I go for next is up in the air. I can't get my hands on anyone from Exedy to aks some questions and it's pissing me off :mad: When I finally find something out I will post about it.

whoa, looks like that C-16 map of yours is a clutch killer!!! Do you always run that at the track, and what are you doing about the O2 sensor?
But yea, Ive heard that about the lightened flywheel hurting launches, but Im not bogging on my launches so much as I am slipping the clutch alot, maybe too much :) Ive heard about the Exedy triple plate, but havent seen it run or whatever, the HKS triple, I guess its the same essentially as the Exedy. Or 3k will get you a Tilton. :rolleyes:
Arent you also the guy that had problems with the synchros on one of your JDM trannies, Im not sure, but if you can recomend any specific make, model tranny I would appreciate it.

whoa, looks like that C-16 map of yours is a clutch killer!!! Do you always run that at the track, and what are you doing about the O2 sensor?
But yea, Ive heard that about the lightened flywheel hurting launches, but Im not bogging on my launches so much as I am slipping the clutch alot, maybe too much :) Ive heard about the Exedy triple plate, but havent seen it run or whatever, the HKS triple, I guess its the same essentially as the Exedy. Or 3k will get you a Tilton. :rolleyes:
Arent you also the guy that had problems with the synchros on one of your JDM trannies, Im not sure, but if you can recomend any specific make, model tranny I would appreciate it.
Every time I went to the track I used the C16 cause I want my 11's :p O2 sensor will take a bit of leaded abuse before it is permanenlty damaged. Besides I am so cheap I am now taking a 5gal can and I empty the tank and put regular gas back in so I can save my C16 :lol:

On the Tilton Triple I didn't go with cause it was 3k and only for the 5MT and not 6MT. Besides they are both made by Daiken clutch so it would have seemed better to go with the Exedy :confused: On the launch I have bogged each time but, the major problem is I have checked enough times and 4th at redline should be 120mph. I am hitting the limiter at 112 so it's slipping at 8500 :mad:

Yeah I broke the 5th syncro on my JDM trans and now I'm running a USDM but it seems my 2.0 doesn't like it. Nothing major it's just 5th and 6th are geared higher so for the street I would prefer the JDM. 1st through 4th are the same on either.

2002wrx are you flat shifting with launch control?

12.9@107 don't sound too bad....now if u could get it up to a 114 mph trap on the same pass like u should be runnin with that 310 hp u dyno with, u'd be in the 12.40's or faster...
it seems ur down on power???

don't feel bad, my best time to date is a 13.101 @ 110 mph :( I have PE1820 with supporting mods, RA gears, ACT clutch and Exedy flywheel. Hard to get used to launching on that setup...

On another note, I have delta dash and can set a secondary rev limiter. Would you suggest that I set the limiter to like 6800 and flat shift through the gears?

The first thing you need to realize is that there are not a lot of people that can consistantly pull 1.6 and 1.7 60' times. Your 2.0 - and - high 1.9 60' times are probably a function of your slow shifting.

Most folks do not realize that the first shift from 1-2 comes just before you have covered 60'. That is why most folks find they plateau near the high 1.9 60' times. They are actually coasting for the last few feet of the 60' because they are in the middle of a shift.

To pull times < 1.8 - 1.9 60' times you must have a flawless shift 1-2 that is as quick as you can manage. For 60' times in the 1.7 and lower range you need to basically flat shift the 1-2 shift. If you hit the rev limiter, or lift off the throttle to any significant degree during that shift, or unload the drive train enough so that the nose of the car dips during the shift, you've blown your 60' time.

I can pull high 1.7 60' times on the stock turbo here at high altitude, but from my experience, once you get a good solid push you back in the seat launch figured out, focus on a quick clean shift on 1-2. From your numbers your definitely capable of knocking a bit of time off your ET if you can trim the 60' times just a bit. Just a few hundreths off the 60' time make a big difference.

In my experience I find I don't really "slip" the clutch on launch. It is a controlled but clean release, not a dump but not a slip.

Larry

12.9@107 don't sound too bad....now if u could get it up to a 114 mph trap on the same pass like u should be runnin with that 310 hp u dyno with, u'd be in the 12.40's or faster...
it seems ur down on power???

I cannot get into 4th gear fast enough to trap that high, so I cross in 3rd at 11 mph. But after the first couple of passes I consistently trapped 107. I dont know why, besides maybe the clutch slipping.

The first thing you need to realize is that there are not a lot of people that can consistantly pull 1.6 and 1.7 60' times. Your 2.0 - and - high 1.9 60' times are probably a function of your slow shifting.

Most folks do not realize that the first shift from 1-2 comes just before you have covered 60'. That is why most folks find they plateau near the high 1.9 60' times. They are actually coasting for the last few feet of the 60' because they are in the middle of a shift.

To pull times < 1.8 - 1.9 60' times you must have a flawless shift 1-2 that is as quick as you can manage. For 60' times in the 1.7 and lower range you need to basically flat shift the 1-2 shift. If you hit the rev limiter, or lift off the throttle to any significant degree during that shift, or unload the drive train enough so that the nose of the car dips during the shift, you've blown your 60' time.

I can pull high 1.7 60' times on the stock turbo here at high altitude, but from my experience, once you get a good solid push you back in the seat launch figured out, focus on a quick clean shift on 1-2. From your numbers your definitely capable of knocking a bit of time off your ET if you can trim the 60' times just a bit. Just a few hundreths off the 60' time make a big difference.

In my experience I find I don't really "slip" the clutch on launch. It is a controlled but clean release, not a dump but not a slip.

Larry


Do you still think that even though I redline at 8200, and am already doing 45 or so when I shift that I have still yet to cross the 60ft mark? My 1-2 shift is slow, as I am most cautious with that one. I also try a mix of the dump/slip techniques, but usually just end up slipping. I think the cams come on too late to make the power needed to get off the ground with a dump.

don't feel bad, my best time to date is a 13.101 @ 110 mph :( I have PE1820 with supporting mods, RA gears, ACT clutch and Exedy flywheel. Hard to get used to launching on that setup...

On another note, I have delta dash and can set a secondary rev limiter. Would you suggest that I set the limiter to like 6800 and flat shift through the gears?


I might try using the stock flywheel again. The RA 1st gear is longer right. Does that make it harder to launch?
I was considering Delta Dash, would you recommend it. From what everyones saying, the next time I go out Im flatshifting the whole way down. Screw the 5- speed, let it burn!! :devil:

I ran a 14.66 @ 110 today.
My clutch sucks ballz.

I might try using the stock flywheel again. The RA 1st gear is longer right. Does that make it harder to launch?
I was considering Delta Dash, would you recommend it. From what everyones saying, the next time I go out Im flatshifting the whole way down. Screw the 5- speed, let it burn!! :devil:

Yeah the RA 1st is longer which makes things more difficult coupled with the lighter flywheel and heavier clutch.

As for Delta Dash it's a great tool. You can road dyno the car, scan CEL, clear them, log data, you can adjust parameters (timing, boost... ) not as much as the UTEC but for fine adjusting things. There is also real-time graphing. www.ecutek.com to read more about it.

If I were to flatshift through the 1/4 mile, would anyone recommend setting a secondary rev limiter to like 6800 instead of bouncing off the stock limiter? (go a bit easier on my engine).

Delta dash is good, and a delta dash log would help you determine if your shifting before or after the 60' mark. With your higher rpm, you might be able to get all the way to 60' in low but I doubt it. The stock low gear red lines at about 38-40 mph if I remember correctly.

With the DD logs I ran, it updated evey 237 milliseconds, so by checking your rpm , boost, TPS and the time logging, you can get a pretty good idea of how much time elapsed before you make your shift. By looking at the throttle positon switch, engine rpm and so on, you can clearly see when you make your shift, and how long it takes. In one of my logs when I was pulling 1.9 60' times it took almost .5 seconds for the shift to take place and the engine to get back to full boost.

Just focus on making a very quick shift. Smooth and quick not "fast and powerful". Your not trying to break the shifter off, just move it in one quick clean motion, properly timed with the clutch. I tell folks to hold the shifter with their fingers not with your hand wrapped around it in a death grip. Your fingers will give you more feel, and if the shift balks a bit, your fingers will give some instead of just brute force overpowering the syncros and breaking or bending shift forks or the syncros or gears.

Larry

Delta dash is good, and a delta dash log would help you determine if your shifting before or after the 60' mark. With your higher rpm, you might be able to get all the way to 60' in low but I doubt it. The stock low gear red lines at about 38-40 mph if I remember correctly.

With the DD logs I ran, it updated evey 237 milliseconds, so by checking your rpm , boost, TPS and the time logging, you can get a pretty good idea of how much time elapsed before you make your shift. By looking at the throttle positon switch, engine rpm and so on, you can clearly see when you make your shift, and how long it takes. In one of my logs when I was pulling 1.9 60' times it took almost .5 seconds for the shift to take place and the engine to get back to full boost.

Just focus on making a very quick shift. Smooth and quick not "fast and powerful". Your not trying to break the shifter off, just move it in one quick clean motion, properly timed with the clutch. I tell folks to hold the shifter with their fingers not with your hand wrapped around it in a death grip. Your fingers will give you more feel, and if the shift balks a bit, your fingers will give some instead of just brute force overpowering the syncros and breaking or bending shift forks or the syncros or gears.

Larry

Some great info, I a[ppreciate it. I'll definately look into getting the Delta Dash to see if I can figure anything out. And I'll try to incorporate your shifting advice into my next runs. :)

Yeah the RA 1st is longer which makes things more difficult coupled with the lighter flywheel and heavier clutch.

As for Delta Dash it's a great tool. You can road dyno the car, scan CEL, clear them, log data, you can adjust parameters (timing, boost... ) not as much as the UTEC but for fine adjusting things. There is also real-time graphing. www.ecutek.com to read more about it.

If I were to flatshift through the 1/4 mile, would anyone recommend setting a secondary rev limiter to like 6800 instead of bouncing off the stock limiter? (go a bit easier on my engine).

So you have the 5-Speed RA gears right. If Im right, how do they feel, I was looking seriously at them because of their low price, but heard some things regarding their strength. If they hold for you, Im sure theyll do fine for me. Redlining at 7k, your a bit into 4th at the traps or what?

Yeah I'm in 4th when I trap at 110 mph. I love these gears, they feel so much better than stock especially 4th and 5th. The stock ratios for 4th and 5th are too long...

You can check out the install I did of them (and many other mods) on my website:
http://www56.homepage.villanova.edu/daniel.arnal/wrx/

or here is the direct link:
http://www56.homepage.villanova.edu/daniel.arnal/wrx/gearset.htm

2002wrx are you flat shifting with launch control?
No launch control but it may end up being needed? I flat shifted my JDM with the stock clutch settup but, when I did 3 hot laps I wound up destroying the 5th syncro.

I have not been able to try flat shifting yet as this clutch is agrivating me just trying to get a decent launch :mad: When I achieve something I will be posting it :rolleyes: