PDX Tuning took care of me and netted 230hp and 214tq!! THANKS GUYS!!!!! Here's my setup:

Engine:
Cartech TMIC
3" mandrel bent exhaust w/high flow cat
Custom ECUTEK tune
Stone Mountain Racing headers (TurboX coated)
Stone Mountain Racing uppipe (TurboX coated)
STi injectors
Walbro fuel pump
Deadbolt Monster TD04 turbo (Black XTreme coated)
GM boost solenoid mod
K&N panel filter
Koyo radiator
Koyo high pressure radiator cap
Crucial Racing thermostat
TurboX coated Turbo heat shield
1 step colder plugs

Bakes:
Rotora 4 pot front BBK w/Vented, slotted, and crossdrilled Rotora rotors
Rotora 2 pot rear BBK w/Vented and slotted Rotora rotors
Rotora SS brake lines

Suspension:
Cusco front sway bar
Cusco rear sway bar
STi 4-way adjustable struts
STi RA springs (I think)

Interior:
Blitz turbo timer
Schroth 4pt racing harness
Lo-Tek 3 pillar pod w/GReddy gauges (Boost, Oil Temp, Exhaust Temp)

Exterior:
Prodrive P7 17in rims
STi hood scoop
ZeroSports air splitter

http://www.pdxtuning.com/nasioc/SesnaDynoPlot.jpg

shoulda bought an STi :lol:

~v6

Can you post a dyno plot? With all your go-fast mods you should have one hell of a killer plot ... :D ... How do you like the monster port? Between the up and downpipes + the header, you should have what for lag time ... Like less then none ... :lol: ... Good job on the numbers though ...

at what boost?

what kind of dyno?

'smacks V6' :P

how is the stone moutain header/uppipe?

How do I post images?

Edit: I think I got it worked out. I just went to photobucket like a couple of other people recommended. I posted my dyno sheets in the other post if anyone wants to take a look at them.

shoulda bought an STi :lol:

~v6


I agree...

Seems like you should be putting more power to the wheels. :confused: At least the 250-260 range. :confused:

do your self a favor and get a decent sized turbo on that thing. thats a very well rounded and complete mod list, but that 13g is holding you back so much. at least go vf34!

V6TurboTA - Indeed, an STi would have been awesome, but wasn't an option at the time. I've put a lot of work into this one and am pretty happy with it so I don't think I'll get one ... unless reasons that would be beyond my control ripped the WRX out of my hands :)

pezman04wrx - In my excitement, I forgot to grab the plot. I've asked PDX for it and they should be getting back to me before long :) There is more lag than you might think, from what I understand, the stock headers are great for spool, just not flow. These semi-equal length headers don't get the spool up as fast as one might think, but it's still pretty good in my mind :)

stickman - According to the memory feature in my GReddy gauge, ~20psi.

WSSBOARD18 - Mustang dyno

kennyvb - With all equal length headers, your car looses the boxer sound. However, the butt dyno shows nice improvements in the mid to top end power range.

Mattr762 - The Deadbolt Monster TD04 is only a P&P turbo, though my turbo has had the compressor side ported as well, it's still only a stock turbo. PDX Tuning told me that this was the most powerful stock turbo they've ever tuned and pretty much all that I'm going to get out of the stocker.

midnite_wrex - My future plans include a larger turbo, but for now, I wanted to lay down the ground work for more power by adding all the supporting modifications first.

~20 Psi :huh: :huh: Is it just me or does that seem WAY out of the effeciancy range for the stock turbo?

~20 Psi :huh: :huh: Is it just me or does that seem WAY out of the effeciancy range for the stock turbo?
hence the low tq I'd imagine.

~v6

If your master plan was to go to a bigger turbo you should have done it to begin with, unless you are limiting all your bigger turbos to ones that will fit in the stock position. Otherwise you are going to have to modify your existing up and down pipes or have custom ones made, which = mas dinero
Yeah you should lower the boost to 16~18. I dont know what the best pressure is, but I think its in there.
Anyone know if the P&P help out the efficiency at all and allow for higher pressures?
And what exactly is it about the higher pressure that would take away the power? At first thought I was thinking that the turbo would be blowing hot air, but does increasing the pressure by 2 psi really cause the air to heat up that much more from the extra compression?
Temp = Pressure / (density)*(gas constant) I cant see it increasing that much.
I read this too http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html
but can someone explain it to me in english. Even though the efficiency is going down when your pressure ratio is increasing, doesnt the intercooler counter these effects somewhat?
Oh....sorry to thread jack, but its relevant.

thanks
Ron

Phatron - Yes, I did mean a bigger turbo that would fit in the stock location. Something along the lines of a VF34, 16G, 18G, ... does the FP Green work with the stock up and downpipes?

Phatron - Yes, I did mean a bigger turbo that would fit in the stock location. Something along the lines of a VF34, 16G, 18G, ... does the FP Green work with the stock up and downpipes?

yes sir.

Just so everyone knows, contrary to the 2nd post in this thread, not all sti owners are sti snobs. None of the ones I know personally are, in fact. It's a nice car, I'm glad I have it, but I don't care what other people drive. I only spoke to Twerthi for a few minutes but he was a really nice guy. My friends and I had a lot of fun looking at all the other cars there and talking to everyone we met. The two friends I went with have an Evo MR and a late model Celica, so it's not like I choose my car buddies based on their rides. :lol:

NWDriftKing, to post a plot you'll have to have somewhere to host it. If you have a dyno plot you want posted let me know and I'll host it for you. Then just reference the image url in your post. :)

Just so everyone knows, contrary to the 2nd post in this thread, not all sti owners are sti snobs. None of the ones I know personally are, in fact. It's a nice car, I'm glad I have it, but I don't care what other people drive. I only spoke to Twerthi for a few minutes but he was a really nice guy. My friends and I had a lot of fun looking at all the other cars there and talking to everyone we met. The two friends I went with have an Evo MR and a late model Celica, so it's not like I choose my car buddies based on their rides. :lol:

NWDriftKing, to post a plot you'll have to have somewhere to host it. If you have a dyno plot you want posted let me know and I'll host it for you. Then just reference the image url in your post. :)

That was you? Tell your MR Friend that the only Evo getting tuned there did 293 On 91 CA gas and 326 on C16 :eek: not bad for an Evo.

Just so everyone knows, contrary to the 2nd post in this thread, not all sti owners are sti snobs... :)

No doubt!

By the same token, some people crave the attention... be it by their posts or by the car they roll. : P

RadarOnPaws - I hope it didn't come out like I thought that STi owners are snobs :) I know that you are not, you don't even know me and offered to record my dyno runs and send the files to me, a gesture which I appreciated.

~20 Psi :huh: :huh: Is it just me or does that seem WAY out of the effeciancy range for the stock turbo?

This tune was done to about 18psi, not 20psi. The greddy gauge reads quite a bit higher then the stock MAP sensor does, and this is not an actual longterm reading, but a peak reading stored in the gauge.

As I understand it, this is a stock TD04 turbo with a port job. I suspect the headers helped the top end power more then the port job.

As stock WRX on this dyno is typically in the 165whp range. On a well tuned stage 2 (that is a stock turbo with full turboback exhaust, uppipe, intake) gets in the 220 range. 230 is realativly good given the turbo, and the torque at the upper end was very good.

By a huge margin, the biggest limiting factor on this car is the turbo. If a VF-30 was used in it's place, the car would have made 250-270whp.

Don't spend too much time bench racing about what the tune should have made. Every tune is very different, and each combination of parts can have an effect on the results. The reason you custom tune a car on the dyno is to get a tune for that particular car. This particular car tuned very well, and made many consistant pulls with good performance. As well, the owner had he car in tip-top shape for the tune. ( new plugs, no leaks, etc ).

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com

RadarOnPaws - I hope it didn't come out like I thought that STi owners are snobs :) I know that you are not, you don't even know me and offered to record my dyno runs and send the files to me, a gesture which I appreciated.

Nope, you didn't come out that way at all. I was only referring to V6's comments. :D It's all good, my friend. I didn't meet anyone there that day who didn't have fun and just enjoy the process.

This tune was done to about 18psi, not 20psi. The greddy gauge reads quite a bit higher then the stock MAP sensor does, and this is not an actual longterm reading, but a peak reading stored in the gauge.

As I understand it, this is a stock TD04 turbo with a port job. I suspect the headers helped the top end power more then the port job.

As stock WRX on this dyno is typically in the 165whp range. On a well tuned stage 2 (that is a stock turbo with full turboback exhaust, uppipe, intake) gets in the 220 range. 230 is realativly good given the turbo, and the torque at the upper end was very good.

By a huge margin, the biggest limiting factor on this car is the turbo. If a VF-30 was used in it's place, the car would have made 250-270whp.

Don't spend too much time bench racing about what the tune should have made. Every tune is very different, and each combination of parts can have an effect on the results. The reason you custom tune a car on the dyno is to get a tune for that particular car. This particular car tuned very well, and made many consistant pulls with good performance. As well, the owner had he car in tip-top shape for the tune. ( new plugs, no leaks, etc ).

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com

No leaks except for the radiator, eh :lol:

Thanks for the explanation and compliments :)

That was you? Tell your MR Friend that the only Evo getting tuned there did 293 On 91 CA gas and 326 on C16 :eek: not bad for an Evo.

Nice. :D Will do. We were wondering how it turned out but we had to get going. Sushi was calling and Sean (the guy with the MR) had been awake since the previous afternoon thanks to a 12 hour night shift he works.

Any chance for a plot?

Yes, as soon as PDX is able to get it to me, I'll post it. Or ... if PDX is willing, they can host it?

230whp214 tq is yet more proof that the "monster P$P td04" is a monster waste of money.
Ppl have posted better numbers on untouched stock turbos. (not that your numbers are that bad. Torque does seem a little low though.)

OMG I just re-read this thread.

Let me add that people have made more power and torque on the stock turbo, at 3 PSI lower pressure. At 20PSI that td04 isnt going to last very long.
The best thing you could do at this point is rip that POS out and replace it with a non monster P&P tdo4 and get your lost power back. This is not the first car I have seen make bad numbers with one of those things. Actually I have yet to see one perform worth a damn

Dont take this as me crapping on you. I am trying to help here. 20 PSI will destroy that turbo in short order. ANd you arent getting nearly the performance you should be from your setup.

you should have saved a lot of money and done a cobb stg 2 or something like it. cobb stg 2 puts down 224 hp and 223 tq as i recall.

Davenow - I believe that is all a matter of opinion. The Monster P&P does not claim to increase HP, but decrease spool time. I did not expect this turbo to product large numbers, after all, it is still a stock turbo.

However, your point is well taken. For the same amount of money, or relatively close to it, one could pick up a used VF30/34 and make a lot more power.

Edit - :) I understand where you are coming from Davenow, and I do appreciate your advice. I'd actually picked up the turbo some time ago when it was hyped up ... and never installed it until now.

OMG I just re-read this thread.

Let me add that people have made more power and torque on the stock turbo, at 3 PSI lower pressure. At 20PSI that td04 isnt going to last very long.
The best thing you could do at this point is rip that POS out and replace it with a non monster P&P tdo4 and get your lost power back. This is not the first car I have seen make bad numbers with one of those things. Actually I have yet to see one perform worth a damn

Dont take this as me crapping on you. I am trying to help here. 20 PSI will destroy that turbo in short order. ANd you arent getting nearly the performance you should be from your setup.

Apparently you didn't re-read it well enough though. He's not pushing 20 psi through it.

RadaOnPaws - His general point is that the turbo is now operating well outside it's effeciency range and will therefor have a shorter life span.

However, your point is well taken. For the same amount of money, or relatively close to it, one could pick up a used VF30/34 and make a lot more power.

Or even cheaper get a VF-39 pulled out of an STi like my buddy did with mine. He was the one with the red 04 with gold P1's :eek: and he did 258 WHP and 215 WTQ.

how much ??? $300.00 and I installed it. And from what I can recall from the many discussions over the weekend, the PDX guys actually prefer the VF-39 over the 34 because it spools quicker, has a flatter torque curve and is better for a daily driver.

I agree because after driving a vishu tuned vf-34 then driving BlueF's VF-39'ed there was no comparison in my mind. It's all about usable power when it comes to the street.

Thanks, add to cart, update quantities, buy it now.

Apparently you didn't re-read it well enough though. He's not pushing 20 psi through it.

I never said attention was my strong suit :lol: It looked to me like he was.

He still needs to ditch that turbo.

RadaOnPaws - His general point is that the turbo is now operating well outside it's effeciency range and will therefor have a shorter life span.
exactly. Just read my posts with an ADD filter and you will see my point :lol:

exactly. Just read my posts with an ADD filter and you will see my point :lol:

You too? Haha, our brains have turbos.

Danvenow - :) I was corrected by PDX Tuning, my gauge reads high, it's actually only 18psi

blinguskahn - There are many turbo choices I have now for all sorts of money denominations, I have yet to totally decide where I'm going with my car. I do like track days ... don't really like to drag race so I don't think I'll go with anything super large ... I've got plenty of time to think about it :)

I'm interested to see the plot being all the upgrades you have and you are only making but so much power...hopefully the plot is nice

OMG I just re-read this thread.
Let me add that people have made more power and torque on the stock turbo, at 3 PSI lower pressure. At 20PSI that td04 isnt going to last very long.
The best thing you could do at this point is rip that POS out and replace it with a non monster P&P tdo4 and get your lost power back. This is not the first car I have seen make bad numbers with one of those things. Actually I have yet to see one perform worth a damn
Dont take this as me crapping on you. I am trying to help here. 20 PSI will destroy that turbo in short order. ANd you arent getting nearly the performance you should be from your setup.

Such catagorical 'bench racing' statements are a clear indication confusion over the dynamics involved in this kind of comparison.

Your first assertion that "people" have made more power on a fully stock turbo provide no insight, only speculation. As anyone familar with the current state of the dyno industry is aware , such speculation is absurd. This particular dyno has a unique set of calibrations based on extensive testing and real loading tests. As such, it is not only not possible, but obviously suspect to make broad claims of comparison without data.

Being familiar with this dyno, and the typical readings, I can attest that this power level is on par with what we see with stage 2 WRXs, if not a bit on the high side. As stated before, on this particular dyno most stage 2 WRX get somewhere in the 210-220 range, although some fall a bit out of that. As for the suggestion that switching back to the stock turbo would net more power, I fail to understand how you have made that conclusion based on the data present. In fact, you have not even seen the dyno plot, nor asked about the dyno loading configuration.

As other kind readers have pointed out, a careful read of the thread will clarify the boost settings on this particular tune, as well as the above comparitive information. While others may harshly suggest you use the 'search' feature, I would only kindly nudge you that you might consider reading the formentioned thread, and perhaps apply some simple scientific principles to you compartive techniques.

No personal attack meant, howerver clarity of thought is a difficult thing to achieve sometimes.


Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com

you should have saved a lot of money and done a cobb stg 2 or something like it. cobb stg 2 puts down 224 hp and 223 tq as i recall.

Clearly he would have been better served to buy an off the shelf map, as opposed to having his car custom tuned on a dyno. It is even more true that all the dynos in the world read the same, and that extra torque would be just awe inspiring. I clearly need to rethink my strategy here, as I apparently am way out of my league. Perhaps someone can sell me 'something like it'.

;)

I'll apologize in advance, as the veterans here know occassionally it is hard to refuse an opportunity. ;)

Cheers and best holiday wishes to everyone,

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com

Clearly he would have been better served to buy an off the shelf map, as opposed to having his car custom tuned on a dyno. It is even more true that all the dynos in the world read the same, and that extra torque would be just awe inspiring. I clearly need to rethink my strategy here, as I apparently am way out of my league. Perhaps someone can sell me 'something like it'.

;)

I'll apologize in advance, as the veterans here know occassionally it is hard to refuse an opportunity. ;)

Cheers and best holiday wishes to everyone,

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com



i was simply stating that if his goal was to reach around 220/220 hp/tq then why not choose a simple more efficient route.
;)

210-220whp on that dyno at what wtq?

I would love to see a comparison between his setup and an untouched TD04. Peak hp and torques at what RPM's. Do that and you will see that the monster P&P is a waste of money. I wasnt trashing the tuning, dont take it that way.

BTW my post was NOT based on any speculation. I have been around awhile, I know what td04's make. I have done it and seen in in person. The fact that I didnt back it up with date/times/names/charts/dogs favorite foods doenst change the fact that its the truth. It does not make it speculation. That kinda irks me. But what the hey, I irk ppl all the time on here.

When you can get your stocker polished by members on this board for sub $100 prices, and you can buy a real turbo for 300-400, the monster P&P is a complete waste of time and effort. Offering little if any gains for a LOT of money.

i was simply stating that if his goal was to reach around 220/220 hp/tq then why not choose a simple more efficient route.
;)

Because on our dyno, I suspect the cobb off the shelf map would make less power and torque then the custom tune we did. For that matter, any off the shelf map has the potential to be down on power compared to a custom tune (not just Cobbs obviously)

There was nothing more or less efficient about getting his car tuned on a dyno, other then perhaps better results. You suggested that a Cobb Stage 2 "puts down 224 hp and 223 tq as i recall.". The clear point of my humor was to highlight the inaccuracy of such statements when used to compare results across different dynos, at different times, on different cars.

I am of course always interested in discussing the merits of different tuning techniques, and look forward to what might be discovered.

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com

210-220whp on that dyno at what wtq?

I would love to see a comparison between his setup and an untouched TD04. Peak hp and torques at what RPM's. Do that and you will see that the monster P&P is a waste of money. I wasnt trashing the tuning, dont take it that way.

BTW my post was NOT based on any speculation. I have been around awhile, I know what td04's make. I have done it and seen in in person. The fact that I didnt back it up with date/times/names/charts/dogs favorite foods doenst change the fact that its the truth. It does not make it speculation. That kinda irks me. But what the hey, I irk ppl all the time on here.

When you can get your stocker polished by members on this board for sub $100 prices, and you can buy a real turbo for 300-400, the monster P&P is a complete waste of time and effort. Offering little if any gains for a LOT of money.


Fully agree on the point about the turbo itself. While his car did make a bit on the high side for a stock turbo, he also had headers, which on some cars has made a gain at higher RPM. In no was can this test be reviewed as an attestment to the gains from this port job. My personal speculation would be that the money would be best spent on a VF39.

I'm sorry if my comments about speculation were irking. Without a doubt I have great respect for experienced opinions. However, I also have low tolerance for comparitive statements without qualifications. Even with hundreds of tune on this dyno, many of my opinions are very speculative, due to the lack of using a scientific rigor to back them up. Mind you speculation is a good think, but must be weighed as such.

No foul meant towards you of course. Discussion is what this forum is for.

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com

:(

I started this post in praise of PDX Tuning and to see what people thought of my setup. I understand that the most limiting factor in the setup is the turbo, there is no arguement there. My plan was to lay down the ground work by installing all supporting modifications for a larger turbo (injectors, cooling, etc...) and happen to come across a decent deal on a P&P. I thought, "Hey, couldn't hurt" This thread has become too volatile ... I'm requesting it be closed before any hurtful comments can be made.

Jeff, not trying to be a nag, but did you happen to get the plot at all? Please PM me :)

i would kick your tuner in the nuts for numbers that bad

i would kick your tuner in the nuts for numbers that bad
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: yeah thats real helpful

i would kick your tuner in the nuts for numbers that bad

So what you look for in a tuner is someone that will setup the dyno so that it gives grossly inflated numbers so that your ego will be stroked?

:(

I started this post in praise of PDX Tuning and to see what people thought of my setup. I understand that the most limiting factor in the setup is the turbo, there is no arguement there. My plan was to lay down the ground work by installing all supporting modifications for a larger turbo (injectors, cooling, etc...) and happen to come across a decent deal on a P&P. I thought, "Hey, couldn't hurt" This thread has become too volatile ... I'm requesting it be closed before any hurtful comments can be made.

Jeff, not trying to be a nag, but did you happen to get the plot at all? Please PM me :)

My apology for letting this get out of hand. Your plan is sound, and I am sure it will work out well for you. I will be going down to the dyno later today or tomorrow, and will get your plot. Your car felt great, so don't let any 'could have been' comments put you down.

Let's have some of that holiday cheer here! ;)

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com

Don't misunderstand Jeff, I'm a totally satisfied customer :) Yes, the car felt and continues to feel AWESOME!! I think the job that you and the rest of your team did is, by far, the best I've seen :) And the car is running the best it ever has!

No apology necessary, the bickering started well before you entered :) (Not all of it was bickering, some of it was also informative as far as advice goes)

What is everyone's elses setup? Maybe you can post it up so he can compare. But if it feels really good then thats good to.
I posted up my dyno sheet from turbotrix a while back and they also did a great job tuning and of course when i posted my numbers i had a few people bickering about it to. so in my opinion if you like it, then who cares!! hehehehe..

04 wrx
Perrin Dp
Helix up
Hks 3" axleback
turboxs utec
turboxs short intake
turboxs mbc
hks BOV

these are my major mods besides suspension. but i put out 252whp and 261tq at 17.4psi on stock turbos and 93 octane. On the stage 1 turboxs map i pulled a 227whp run but it ran very lean, so the custom tuning helped alot..

Because on our dyno, I suspect the cobb off the shelf map would make less power and torque then the custom tune we did. For that matter, any off the shelf map has the potential to be down on power compared to a custom tune (not just Cobbs obviously)

No doubt about it!

Having driven 350 miles to PDX tuning, using Cobbs VF34 map, and then the same distance back after being dyno tuned (EcuTek)... the difference is night and day. Plain and simple.

the bickering started well before you entered :) (Not all of it was bickering, some of it was also informative as far as advice goes)

Bickering !?!?!? On Nasioc? NO WAY!!! :D

For what's it's worth I think that 230hp and 214tq is very good for this setup. Small turbo, cat in the exhaust, Matrix mustang dyno numbers... You car must rip on the road. The advantage of that turbo is that it's going to spool so fast, what a rush that must be.

I posted my stage 4 dyno results in this forum once a long time ago, I got a horrible bashing. It's a shame that the postings in this forum end up like this. From this forum you should get an idea of HP/TQ numbers from different setups. It's nice to compare different parts and discuss ways to improve the setups.

Why does it seem to always turn into a "my daddy's car's bigger than your daddys car"

Thanks Mick :) Yes, the car does rip on the road :) I'm very much enjoying it ... ALOT!

Jeff, your PM box is full, were you able to grab the dyno plot yesterday?

Jeff, your PM box is full, were you able to grab the dyno plot yesterday?

Here ya go:

http://www.pdxtuning.com/nasioc/SesnaDynoPlot.jpg

now THATS a torque curve :D

~v6

And people wonder how it is a customer can be totally happy with the performance of a car even though it's peak numbers are not as good as some other configuration could yeild.

And people wonder how it is a customer can be totally happy with the performance of a car even though it's peak numbers are not as good as some other configuration could yeild.

People? You mean trolls?

Nice #s, i think these guys are getting used to seeing STI dyno #s alittle too much!

yes, i would think that the torque indicated (flat from 3k5 to 5k6 rpms) would make that a damned entertaining car to drive on actual roads--at least the types of roads i find myself on.

congrats on the tune, and thanks for sharing your results. i'll bet you're loving it!

ken