My dyno - All on an UNCORRECTED AWD Mustang Dyno at Gruppe-s:

91 California Octane.

Ebay - aluminum grill
Crawford / I-speed 2.4
XS Engineering - ported and polished GT 3037 (same internals as AVO 500)
Gruppe-s - ACT Street clutch - lots stiffer than the Exeddy.
LIC Motorsports - Hyperflow TMIC, same core as Spearco
MPJ Performance - Perrin Fuel Rails
MPJ Performance - MRT Adjustable rear sway bar
MPJ Performance - MRT camber / castor plates
MPJ Performance - Turbo inlet hose
Gruppe-s - V7 STi Pink suspension
Fluidyne Radiator - Don't recall who I bought it from
Gruppe-s - Omari EGT and Boost (electronic)
Gruppe-s - Center gauge pod
Dakota Digital - Clock and temp sensor (underhood temps)
MPJ Performance - Borla Hush Exhaust full 3"
Gruppe-s - Helix up and down pipes
Gruppe-s - Tuning from Mike
Tirerack - 17" Kosei K1 wheels, Gray
Tred Shed - S0-3 Pole Position tires (excellent)
Gruppe-s - PE 800 injectors
Leatherseats.com - two tone leatherseats from a group buy
Gruppe-s - Walbro fuel pump


And I'm probably forgetting other stuff...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/antiochcali/smalldyno12_13_04.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/antiochcali/smalldyno12_13_04.jpg

Nice numbers but I think your turbo is running out of air. Look at how it drops after 5000. Time for something bigger :banana:

Thanks,

It's too big - my heads can't flow anymore than that. This is a monster turbo, also you can see the lag in the numbers below 4200 rpm, the curve is concave down. I'm going to go with a smaller turbo...

There is something wrong with you car, you should be making more then that. Al was running 11's on that turbo with an EJ207, something just doesnt seem right to me.

Thanks,

It's too big - my heads can't flow anymore than that. This is a monster turbo, also you can see the lag in the numbers below 4200 rpm, the curve is concave down. I'm going to go with a smaller turbo...
Dont go smaller, you just need some heard work.

:banana:

Yeah, it's the cams, very typical of using 205 heads and more importantly 205 cams on a setup like that. It is awefully laggy in light of the displacement of the motor.

Odd.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

what type of heads and cam?
whats ur redline?
what tranny?
what was the boost at?

It is awefully laggy in light of the displacement of the motor.
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I am not sure - I know that I spool an 18G too fast, been running it for a long time and it just spools too quickly and runs out of breath too fast, so I went with a bigger turbo, but it spools too slowly. I need something in between.

My next turbo will be the 18G with a larger exhuast housing.


what type of heads and cam?
whats ur redline?
what tranny?
what was the boost at?

Heads and cams = stock
Redline = 7500
Tranny=stock 5 speed
Boost = 21 psi

I know you probably have this in a word document and just copy and pasted it, but I still have to flame because I got it before.
How much of that 290 whp do you attribute to the following mods:

Ebay - aluminum grill
Gruppe-s - ACT Street clutch - lots stiffer than the Exeddy.
MPJ Performance - MRT Adjustable rear sway bar
MPJ Performance - MRT camber / castor plates
Gruppe-s - V7 STi Pink suspension
Gruppe-s - Omari EGT and Boost (electronic)
Gruppe-s - Center gauge pod
Dakota Digital - Clock and temp sensor (underhood temps)
Tirerack - 17" Kosei K1 wheels, Gray
Tred Shed - S0-3 Pole Position tires (excellent)
Leatherseats.com - two tone leatherseats from a group buy

Which Exedy are you speaking of when you say the ACT is stiffer than the Exedy?
If it grabs more than the Exedy Hypersingle kit (6 puck), you will be saying bye-bye to your tranny fairly quickly.

And I think you forgot one thing that may be important....engine management? UTEC, Ecutek?
Boost controller?

Can anyone put some numbers on the gains he would see with the cams and the head work? And also the location of the gains in the powerband?
I am in the exact same power range with a stroked EJ205. 2.2 litre stock heads and cams and 300 whp (no nos) on ESX's dynolog. I would like to know the gains so I can justify the purchase. The labor on doing heads and cams is going to suck though.
Heres the link to my plots..they are about halfway down the page.
Your drop off goes from 300 to 235 @ 6500 ~24% drop
My drop goes from 318 to 280 @ 6500 ~13% drop
So I guess there is something up.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499544
Heres another plot from GruppeS with an SR40 turbo and he shows the same percentage drop as you. He goes from 320 to 245 @ 6500 ~24% drop.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=670839

So maybe somethings up with there dyno or tuning?
Thanks
Ron

Which Exedy are you speaking of when you say the ACT is stiffer than the Exedy?

And I think you forgot one thing that may be important....engine management? UTEC, Ecutek?
Boost controller?


I did include things that don't relate to the engine, didn't think it mattered.

I used to use the full face Exedy clutch, it worked fine, but I glazed it and all it did was stink. I replaced it with the full face ACT street clutch - the ACT is much stiffer than the Exedy.

I have an Ecutek tune by Mike from Gruppe-s.

My boost control is with an MBC because the Ecutek seems to be having problems (crazy boost fluctuation), the bead hole is probably too small.

Someting is wrong. Maybe cam timing. I would do a leak down and comp test. That turbo should be full on by 3500-3600 rpm on that motor and the top end trq curve is falling hard. I suspect the timing curve is way off for this combo. This setup should do 330-350whp on pump gas even with the small ports and cams.

Clark

5k rpms peak trq?? shouldnt it be around 3800-4300 w/ the 2.4L?

quite possibly the funniest thing about PPB lately is that people were ragging on the SR40's performance....when the much larger much more efficient (in its application) GT3037 is performing worse with the same hp and less low end torque.

congrats.

just cause its not set up correctly doesnt mean its the turbos fault.

Someting is wrong. Maybe cam timing. I would do a leak down and comp test. That turbo should be full on by 3500-3600 rpm on that motor and the top end trq curve is falling hard. I suspect the timing curve is way off for this combo. This setup should do 330-350whp on pump gas even with the small ports and cams.

Clark

I had a Subaru dealer tune up on my previous turbo about 30 days ago...Do I need another tune up when I change turbo chargers?

I have done both a leak down and a compression test TWICE in the last month, everything is good now.

I did have 4 valves that were out of spec, but I had them replaced and anther leakdown and compression test done.

Here are the results of the last test:

I had both leakdown and compression tests done twice in the last 30 days.

Four of my valves were out of tolerance, they were replaced....Here are the results of my last test. Do they look okay to you?

NOTES:

RIGHT SIDE HEAD
CYLINDER 3 1
Before 0.007 0.007 0.007 0.007 INTAKE
Actual 0.007 0.007 0.007 0.007 SPEC =0.008 ± 0.001
Before 0.010 0.009 0.008 0.007 EHAUST
Actual 0.010 0.009 0.011 0.009 SPEC =0.010 ± 0.001
LEAKDOWNTEST 22%Block 28%Block / Intake

LEFT SIDE HEAD
CYLINDER 2 4
Before 0.008 0.008 0.008 0.008 INTAKE
Actual 0.008 0.008 0.008 0.008 SPEC =0.008 ± 0.001
Before 0.008 0.008 0.010 0.010 EHAUST
Actual 0.010 0.010 0.010 0.010 SPEC =0.010 ± 0.001
LEAKDOWN TEST 10%Block 22%Block

quite possibly the funniest thing about PPB lately is that people were ragging on the SR40's performance....when the much larger much more efficient (in its application) GT3037 is performing worse with the same hp and less low end torque.

congrats.


I'm sorry, what's PPB?

proven power bragging

I am not sure - I know that I spool an 18G too fast, been running it for a long time and it just spools too quickly and runs out of breath too fast, so I went with a bigger turbo, but it spools too slowly. I need something in between.

My next turbo will be the 18G with a larger exhuast housing.




Heads and cams = stock
Redline = 7500
Tranny=stock 5 speed
Boost = 21 psi

Jesus! your gonna pop!

seeing his setup and him running a stock tranny gives me hope :D ..

you better get gears for that baby or sti tranny cause you will break that tranny with that horsepower trust me im running 300+ awhp and im on my 3rd tranny. I have harden gears now and so far so good.

I think he has been using it for a while, some are freakishly strong, this is clearly one of them.

If you are happy with the car then great. I was just pointing out that I feel this car is way down on power and is showing a very late power curve with lots of lag.

On the 5spd. Some are strong, some are weak and clearly some cant drive. I just put 500whp through mine without issue. Its been taking 300-500whp for about 2 years now.

Clark

On the 5spd. Some are strong, some are weak and clearly some cant drive.


correctomundo. especially that last part.

If you are happy with the car then great. I was just pointing out that I feel this car is way down on power and is showing a very late power curve with lots of lag.

Clark,

No, I'm not happy with the lag. I was not criticizing you - I did post my results, I don't know what else to do. I've had leakdown and compression tests - I've replaced 4 valves because of it, but none of it makes any difference in how I run.

I have been given many suggestions, but none of them make any more power or improve my spool up. I am at the end of the line. I've put in over $2000 in labor alone in the last couple of weeks and my car is making power, but it's later than I want it.

I know you probably have this in a word document and just copy and pasted it, but I still have to flame because I got it before.

You never have to flame...

Anyway back on topic...

With a 2.4ltr with stock heads/cams he should still have enough flow on the lower rpms to be a torque monster. I can understand the flow limitation causing the fall off up top, but on the low end he should fly.

It is unfortunate that it does not.

If you are sure it is nothing with the turbo, I would try and get some Ver7 or 8 heads off kingpin. If you are in it this far you might as well see it through until you get what you want.

...If you are sure it is nothing with the turbo...

I don't know if anything is right or wrong with the turbo, it just is...I am considering throwing in my old VF-30 and seeing what that looks like.

If it is good then maybe something is wrong with the big turbo or maybe it's just too big.

If it also looks slow, then maybe I have another problem.

There is something wrong with you car, you should be making more then that. Al was running 11's on that turbo with an EJ207, something just doesnt seem right to me.I was making 419 whp - BUT - that was on the STI JDM motor and better fuel

I was making 419 whp - BUT - that was on the STI JDM motor and better fuel


I agree that if I had better fuel I'd make more - I have to run 91 because my job requires me to travel.

I was making 419 whp - BUT - that was on the STI JDM motor and better fuel
But better fuel and an EJ207 shouldnt make up for 119 whp.

But better fuel and an EJ207 shouldnt make up for 119 whp.

Really it does - 100 octane can give SIGNIFICANTLY more than 91. I know of a couple of cars running race gas (I don't know if this means 100, 105, 114 or C-16) but they all make more than 100 HP more than on 91.

You tune to Detonation then back off - more det resistance can yield much higher HP numbers.

Really it does - 100 octane can give SIGNIFICANTLY more than 91. I know of a couple of cars running race gas (I don't know if this means 100, 105, 114 or C-16) but they all make more than 100 HP more than on 91.

You tune to Detonation then back off - more det resistance can yield much higher HP numbers.
I understand how it works, but there are EJ205 powered VF-30 cars making ~300whp.

I understand how it works, but there are EJ205 powered VF-30 cars making ~300whp.

not on that dyno and on 91 though. my car on the gruppe-s mustang made 292whp on 100 octane (stock motor and vf30) Most likely around 272whp on 91 since their dyno is very very simliar to vishnu's. I still dont think 91 is to blame for the numbers though, either the engine isn't what it is assumed to be or something else...

I am running the exact same setup (almost) except my gt3037 has a -14 wheel and a slightly larger compressor housing. I am making the same power on my stock ej205 at the same rpm as you and that was on the dyno dynamics dyno with only my fuel map adjusted, still on the normal stage 4 timing map (UTEC). I was on 93, but i deffinately think you should be making more power, earlier. I don't know who did your tuning, but see if you can increase the timing at the lower rpms before you make boost, that may help with spool up. I am building a 2.4L block right now, I expect it to put down better numbers than these (no offense, just seems like the car has more potential than this).

I am running the exact same setup (almost) except my gt3037 has a -14 wheel and a slightly larger compressor housing. I am making the same power on my stock ej205 at the same rpm as you and that was on the dyno dynamics dyno with only my fuel map adjusted, still on the normal stage 4 timing map (UTEC). I was on 93, but i deffinately think you should be making more power, earlier. I don't know who did your tuning, but see if you can increase the timing at the lower rpms before you make boost, that may help with spool up. I am building a 2.4L block right now, I expect it to put down better numbers than these (no offense, just seems like the car has more potential than this).

No offense taken - With stock heads and cams, I would expect peak HP to be the same, but I would expect better spool up with the 2.4 and a stronger low end.

I am considering putting on a VF-30, since I have one in my garage, and seeing what that looks like, since I know what a VF-30 on a 2.0 WRX looks like.