Up until this point, I've only looked at TWE and Cobb cams for my '99 2.5RS. They were both a bit too pricey for me to justify the purchase. Now, I'm trying to get a bit of feedback on Delta cam regrinds.

I did a quick search, and it looked like the majority of people who are using delta cams are using them on 2.2L cars. I'd assume Delta could regrind a camshaft off of a 2.5RS.

Anyways, on with the questions:

what kind of gains can I expect from these cams?
how is the quality of Delta's work? (my search showed all positive feedback)
How do these cams compare to TWE or Cobb's cams?
Any drawbacks I should be aware of?

Lastly, any general opinions about Delta cams would be greatly appreciated as well.

If you read a little more closely, you will find that people are just starting to use the Delta cams. You will need to watch and listen in the coming weeks to see what they produce.

Their claim is 15hp on the 220 grind. As for quality, the ones that we got back last week appeared to be top quality. I didn't realize they were a welded regrind. I was initially under the impression that they were a grind down design, but they are not. And CCR has been using these cams on their gyro-plane EJ22 builds for years, and those planes run them up to 7000rpm+....

Contact Jack at Ion Performance in Calgary, Alberta (canada).

They do a grind-down style of cam building and are top-notch. They have extensive build packages and tailor to each specific application.

Contact Jack at Ion Performance in Calgary, Alberta (canada).

They do a grind-down style of cam building and are top-notch. They have extensive build packages and tailor to each specific application.
is Jack the guy who does the cam grinding for TWE?

where are you looking at buying these from?? I'd like to check out the prices on them. :)

Boost-Free Subee - No we do not do cam grinding for TWE. We carry the TWE product line.

RayQuon - Not too sure of Delta offers something for the SOHC EJ25; not all cams are made equal. The profile on a EJ22 cam won't work too well on the EJ25.

Will do. By the way, do you have cams that Ion Performance did? Some impressions would be great.

EDIT: Ion Performance is merely a distributor of TWE cams. They don't regrind on their own.

Contact Jack at Ion Performance in Calgary, Alberta (canada).

They do a grind-down style of cam building and are top-notch. They have extensive build packages and tailor to each specific application.

http://www.deltacam.com/

where are you looking at buying these from?? I'd like to check out the prices on them. :)

Man, what are you waiting for? The peeps over at USMB love them. They do good work. I had them make some cams for one of my XT6s and the top end improved a little bit. I had to raise timing a good deal though and the idle became slightly lumpy. My problem was I did too many mods between the cams and the dyno and some of the mods were 'bad' mods. Needless to say, they grinded the cams to do what I wanted them to do, give me more top end.

If they have a grind for the 2.5RS, I can't see why wait. They are CHEAP compared to the other cams.

I'm going to give them a call tomorrow morning. I sure hope they have a grind profile for the 2.5RS. I have seen absolutely no one with delta cams from my searching though, so it doesn't exactly look promising at the moment.

I checked out USMB just now, and one dyno sheets I saw posted really didn't look all that great. Pretty minimal gains on the top end, and loss of bottom end like crazy.

I checked out USMB just now, and one dyno sheets I saw posted really didn't look all that great. Pretty minimal gains on the top end, and loss of bottom end like crazy.

The one dyno sheet that you saw was me. I'm 'Myxalplyx' on the other boards. That was a bad representation of what the cams could do alone because I did other mods at the same time as well.

Being the experimentor (and fool sometimes) that I am, I had Rallispec customize a header for my XT6 that had a wider diameter than the stock header. On top of this, I had them put on a 2.5" cat converter and 2.5" exhaust that I had planned on using with a turbo XT6 project they were going to build but I ran out of money. The flow is TOO free flowing so I lost a ton of low end. I did the cams months afterward and dyno'd the car.

Usually I do dyno runs after every single change to a car but not in this case. Still, you can see how the cams changed the profile of the car. I asked for a gain on the top end with minimal to no loss of low end. Had I left my header alone and changed my exhaust to 2.25", things would've been REALLY different.

On my other XT6 I had a 2.25" exhaust put on from my 2nd cat back instead of 2.5" and had a max of 11bs-ft of torque gain in the middle. You don't see this in the dyno graph you saw due to testing wacky mods. I had to know though. The cams did what I ask. I can't imagine what they'd do if you get a decent intake, header and exhaust combo on a 2.5RS.

Boost-Free Subee - No we do not do cam grinding for TWE. We carry the TWE product line.

RayQuon - Not too sure of Delta offers something for the SOHC EJ25; not all cams are made equal. The profile on a EJ22 cam won't work too well on the EJ25.
wasn't sure, either way. both from alberta, both use grind down method...

TWE uses Colt cams (also in Canada).

Good news, I gave Delta a call, and they do have a cam profile for the EJ25.

Here are the only specs he could give me for their cams:

Duration:
Intake: 172
Exhaust 176

Lift:
Intake: 276
Exhaust: 302

Vs. Stock:

Duration:
Intake: 154
Exhaust 163

Lift:
Intake: 240
Exhaust: 276

I'm assuming all numbers are without 000s. And I believe he said all readings are at 50mph? I don't really know what to make of this information, haha. Please enlighten me.

RayQuon,
You have not heard of anyone using Delta cams on the RS because until I mentioned them last month, noone here even knew they exists. And in case you are still wondering about their quality, they are actually a retailer for Comp Cams. If you are not familiar with Comp, a search on google will yield much results...

Matt, thank you for showing us the light!...lol.

I know you've got cobb's cams on your car as well, so you are probably a lot more familiar with how camshafts efficiency/effectiveness are extracted. Can you make any sense of the numbers I posted?

I poked around the delta cams website, but I didn't see any pricing?? maybe the link was down on their site, or were you seeing the prices somewhere else???

Nope, I never saw any pricing either, but it is $65 to regrind each cam. Absolutely ridiculously cheap price compared to what Cobb or TWE want.

i'm very interested in doing this as well....any feedback on delta cams is much appreciated

Give them a call for pricing or email them. I know it cost me around $165 including shipping to have them done for my XT6. This is for a 6 cylinder (H6) Scooby though, not 4. Plus, I got a nice Deltacam T-shirt that my wife won't stop wearing. :mad: She looks good in it though. :devil:

And you are right that their price is ridiculously low compared to Cobb or :lol:

The duration is in degrees (the number just as typed), and the Lift is in inches (the numbers are missing a decimil point infront of them, ie .276 and .302)

Duration is (typically) how long the valve is open at .05" or higher until it reaches .05" on the way to closing.

Lift is (usually) the distance between the valve seat and the highest position the valve reaches (maximum lift). On a DOHC head, it is the difference between the base circle and highest point on the cam lobe. On a SOHC head, the rockers usually have a ratio (rocker ratio) that changes the cam dimentions, by a factor of the rocker ratio, into valve lift. The lift can also be listed as measured off of the cam (for engines that have different rocker ratios available to them).

Numbers from different sources will not usually match, but it is a better indicator of what their cam profile is like if the same person measures both cams, instead of using Subaru's numbers and then their own for the regrind.

Using their numbers

They are increasing duration by 12% and 8% over stock

and increasing lift by 15% and 9% over stock.

It looks simular to the Cobb spicy (Club Racer) cam, and will likely perform the same. I didn't see anything on Cobb's site about the stock measurements of the cam, so I can't completely be sure of their increases (I used the measurements off of TWE's site) so they might be different all together.

In any case, the increase in duration is going to cause a CEL for misfires, and your idle may be a little rougher. Same sort of thing as with the spicy cams.

cheeRS,

Greg

Thanks Greg. For a noob like me that is good info. So the next logical question is can I get a cam grind (mild?) and keep the car streetable..... what other timing or ecu issues come up with a new cam? Do you always sacrifice low rpm drivability for more top end?

I wonder if (for the super low price) they are taking material from the base circle and altering duration accordingly with the blending on the lobes? This is important with shim type lifters that many of us have.....it'll require reshimming each valve.

Jay Storm
Has two sets of OEM DOHC cams to get rid of or have reground.....

I would just like to add that CObb's cams (and I would bet TWE's) are both mad eby Comp Cams... some... as so far as build quality goes on the the Delta cams, i doubt there is any cause for alarm.

I now have Delta cams on two of my 2.2L with over 1500 miles
No CEL, excellent improvement in accelaration, wonderful freeway driving

I would like to see how they perform compared to the COBB and TWE. Monson, do you have any idea?

Steven

I now have Delta cams on two of my 2.2L with over 1500 miles
No CEL, excellent improvement in accelaration, wonderful freeway driving

Keep in mind that the poster has a 2.5, not a 2.2.

I would just like to add that CObb's cams (and I would bet TWE's) are both mad eby Comp Cams... some... as so far as build quality goes on the the Delta cams, i doubt there is any cause for alarm.

Cobb uses Web Cams (they are not strictly reground, they are welded and reground). Twe uses Colt cams.

Neither use Comp cams.

Thanks Greg. For a noob like me that is good info. So the next logical question is can I get a cam grind (mild?) and keep the car streetable..... what other timing or ecu issues come up with a new cam? Do you always sacrifice low rpm drivability for more top end?

Is your car a DOHC or a SOHC, and are you sure?

If you spend the $800.00+ for adjustable cam gears (on a DOHC) you can putz around with alot of things, otherwise you are stuck with how it came out of the grinder. SOHC you can't do anything with. I Concider the Cobb spicy cam the maximum of "mild" cams. It doesn't cause any problems with the car, just the CEL. As you go into a more agressive profile you will need to start to pay attention to things and you might need to fart around with it.

THe Cobb Spicy cam is completely streetable with an equal length header. With stock or Borla headers it will be soggy around 2000 RPMS. The CEL doesn't do anything except fail emissions.

The trade off is not always as strict as that. For instance, you can boost the entire torque curve a little bit. If you are just concerned about the drop in torque porduction near/at redline, you are going to loose a little at idle. Keep in mind that you are not going to be accelerating at full throttle from 500 RPM's to ~1,500-2000 anyway. So is it really a trade off? On the graph, yes, but in actual use it is a rather pointless area to have torque when compared to more near redline.

TWE makes a cam that will not give you a CEL if you are concerned about that. I don't know what the point is where the CEL is displayed and it would be tough to figuer it out with different companies measurements anyway, if anyone told us what that point is.

Cobb uses Web Cams (they are not strictly reground, they are welded and reground). Twe uses Colt cams.

Neither use Comp cams.


Ooops.... as soon as I read Web it hit me... Cobb cams use to actually come to your door in a Web Cams box.... now I think they rebox them...

That being said... I retract my thoughts on reliability... although Comp Cams have been at it for a good long time in the domestic market...

I have Delta cams in my 2.2L., 6 months now. They are not welded but ground. I doubt they worked up a profile specifically for these engines so there are no R&D costs. You are also dealing directly with the grinder. Taking all into consideration this is a fair price. ]
I almost bought Delta regrinds from a performance place in NH, They were charging $260.00. Somebody there slipped on who did their cams so I called Delta directly.
The airplane guys I have read about use them mostly in the old Subaru 1.8's, the EA series, (carburated engines).
These guys where great to deal with, cams where headed back 48 hours after they received them.
With Borla headers and these cams the engine sounds great (if thats important).
You may have to turn the idle up just a little ( I have a light flywheel ) .
Make some off set keys and you can adjust camshaft timing 3-4 degrees.
With intake and exhaust mods I think the cams are good for more than 15HP

IThese guys where great to deal with, cams where headed back 48 hours after they received them. ..........With intake and exhaust mods I think the cams are good for more than 15HP

I forgot to mention their turnaround time was excellent. It took UPS way longer than it did for DeltaCams to do what they did. I got mine back in 1 week. DeltaCams had my cam for 1 day out of that total time. This on top of their price seemed excellent.

I'd like to see some dyno numbers on the Deltacams though. That would be cool. Now I know what would complete my Outback Sport's mods. A single port Borla header and a set of DeltaCams. Yeah baby!

for those that have delta cams already on their cars, what other supporting mods did you do (or recommend to be done) to the engine while you were in there? Upgraded valve springs or stronger retainers required? Should I get some better head gaskets while I'm at it?

Jay,
When we ordered them, we thought they were like they. They are in fact ground down and rewelded with all new lobes.

And Texas25RS, Web makes Cobb's cams, not comp. At least according to the box mine came in.

Regardless, they are both good companies, and with this pricing, I her a sucking sounc coming out of Cobb's and TWE's bank accounts on their EJ25 business...

Matt, do you think these would perform as well as the cams in your car?

*subscribe

Thanks Sec8. My 98 GF4 wagon L has the ej22e engine. I believe that it is a SOHC 16v, but of course, now that I am looking for the codes/specs, I can't find it....

John G: sounds like you have the kind of set up I am going for.... so if I may pick your brains:
- what kind of flywheel did you put in
- what intake and exhaust are you running with
- Do you like this cam/flywheel/breathing combo overall.... is it fun and are there any downsides? Thanks Guys!

Matt, do you think these would perform as well as the cams in your car?

From what I saw last night on our hybrid engine I would guess so, but don't quote me on that. :o Our EJ25 block w/EJ22heads engine with the 220 grind and a Perrin drop-in filter and cat back feels really close to how my car felt this fall when I ran it for a month without the headers. Of course, the '94 is about 150lbs lighter than mine. Once we get the Cobb headers on there we expect it to open up a bit.Power comes on around 3200rpm, and it runs out of air just shy of 6000. I think it is the heads and the headers that choke it though, not the cams. I bet the cams have a solid 6500rpms in them. And of course these are 2.2 cams. But if I were in the market for cams again, I would buy these Deltas without a second thought. For less than $200 for Comp cams you can't beat it...

One other comment, not every car reacts adversely to the Cobb spicy cams. My car has never thrown a misfire code, and ran for a month straight without a CEL while the headers were returned to stock. It all depends on your ECU. Some are picky, some are not...

impreza911,
You have a phase II single port head EJ22E...

good info Matt. I am looking at getting cams. I had been thinking either Cobb spicey, or TWE stage II, but these Delta cams are so cheap its worth it to try them.

So is the 220 grind what we need for our 2.5RS's? mine is a 2002, so thats SOHC right?

group buy????
:D

Impreza911
Stock intake, Borla headers with Stromung cat, midpipe and exhaust. Excedy flywheel.
I have PNP'd the heads and matched them to the intake. The car has light weight bumper beams carbon hood and light weight battery, removed a lot of sound deadening material. No idea of total weight, added a few things too.
I am using WRX wheels and "standard tires"
Yesterday I tried some zero to sixty times, I had my son in the passenger seat, 12 years old, not the best time keeper. 3/4 tank of gas and a load of x'mas presents in the back. I weigh about 205 and he is about 80. It was 14 degrees out.
First the excuses, the car launches horribly, needs smaller tires or a better gear ratio, Second The ECU cuts out the engine at about 6000 when the engine is still pulling strong. Third, I have to shift at 56 mph into third gear. Fourth The brand new OEM replacement clutch properly installed by me slips at WOT in first second and a little in third just as I shift.
Did five runs, Threw out two as being way off, I'd say 8.8 8.9 0-60. The car feels much better than this though. -56 times would be much better. 20-80 times feel great

Impreza911
I weigh about 205 and he is about 80.

80 pound 2 year old??? Better take him off the Happy Meals!

80 pound 2 year old??? Better take him off the Happy Meals!
You should see my mother in law. My son is twelve

group buy????
:D
Don't be an idiot. If they get too much attention they will raise their prices not lower them. :rolleyes: They are steal at $65 a cam. Don't mess up a good thing with your greed... :furious:

I was thinking the same thing. On top of that, organizing for a bunch of people to have their cams pulled out of their cars and mailed off within a short time frame will be a major pain in the ass. $65 a cam is already ridiculous. Some lightweight crank pulleys cost more. :rolleyes:

Don't be an idiot. If they get too much attention they will raise their prices not lower them. :rolleyes: They are steal at $65 a cam. Don't mess up a good thing with your greed... :furious:

come on guys, i was joking. as if the price could get any lower!

$65 a cam is already ridiculous. All lightweight crank pulleys cost more. :rolleyes:

I haven't seen any that were cheaper (NEW) than $100 .


Mick

come on guys, i was joking. as if the price could get any lower!

That's what your emoticons are for. :D doesn't imply that you were joking. ;) :alien:

I haven't seen any that were cheaper (NEW) than $100 .


Mick

Mr. Josh's lightweight crank pulley is/was $80. I don't know if he sells them anymore though.

I think he was talking about the Delta Cams. ;)

Mr. Josh's lightweight crank pulley is/was $80. I don't know if he sells them anymore though.
Oh, that's right. I've never shopped around for one, though, so I couldn't recall.


Mick

for those that have delta cams already on their cars, what other supporting mods did you do (or recommend to be done) to the engine while you were in there? Upgraded valve springs or stronger retainers required? Should I get some better head gaskets while I'm at it?

anyone?

Rayquon
You should probably do intake and exhaust first. You won't need to do any valve train mods if you retain the stock ECU and Rev limit. If you have the money and plan to pull the heads or swap in new ones a nice multi angle valve job will help flow at low lift.

I'm done with all the basic bolt ons. Cams are the next step for me. It seems that without a reflash or engine management, the cams will be somewhat wasted, no? I'm very interested in safely raising my redline, that is one of my main goals.

So, that raises even more questions. From the posted specs, do these cams look like they are aggressive enough to require new engine management, and therefore a new valvetrain, and therefore a higher redline?

I have a question to add. I have a full exhaust, but I still have the stock intake box with a K&N panel filter connected to a PDM intake tube going into the fender. Would I need to upgrade to a real CAI like a Cobb or Injen to take full advantage of these cams? How much of a difference would it make?


Mick

The cams work without the CAI
A good CAI may add 1-2 whp to the cams

It seems that without a reflash or engine management, the cams will be somewhat wasted, no? I'm very interested in safely raising my redline, that is one of my main goals.

No, the cams will not be wasted with out EM. Most of the power falls off after 6200 rpms anyway. Look at Matt Monsons dyno, his power falls off after 6000 rpms with COBB spicey cams. He did say he thinks the guy doing the dyno pulled off early, so there could be more power up there, but not much.

my .02

Do I need to post my dyno results for the 1 millionth time to proove that cams do not requre a reflash, and aftermarket ECU or a raised redline to give gains. You can maximize the gains with those things, but they aren't required. And Rayquon, since you have a '99, you have a MAF. Your MAF is smarter than my MAP, and as such can better take advantage of mods. Get some cams and an AFC and see what happens...

i haven't gotten headers yet (can't afford new EL, waiting for a used set)

how much would this cut into the cam's gains?

'02 2.5
stromung catback, ganzflow, pulleys

probably not too too much, but it would compliment the cams much better. better sounding, and better free flowing.

bumping this to get new opinions. I know, I could search 10000 threads, but this one is already started, with good info. It just needs updates from the past year.

So what's everyone saying now?

Delta cams- improved midrange and awsome top end starts at about 2800-3000rpm and is still pulling hard at rev limiter. And all I have is wrx axle back and ganz flow. Well worth the money. Cel is due to rough idle.

anyone not getting CEL? That would be annoying.

Delta cams- improved midrange and awsome top end starts at about 2800-3000rpm and is still pulling hard at rev limiter. And all I have is wrx axle back and ganz flow. Well worth the money. Cel is due to rough idle.
Which grind did you do? how rough of idle are we talking here? nolonger daily driver reliable???? please help i am super interested in these.

Ill be able to comment on the 220 grind pretty soon.