Okay so 553bhp and 528ftlb was at the flywheel figures, but 420whp I think with the race gas, at 25psi, I think the power would have been the same at about 23psi at the top end. Dyno reads whp pretty much the same as a DynoDynamics give or take 10hp or so at these levels.

Turbo is a fully Garret GT30 using an -18 cart (2.36" turbin in 0.82 A/R housing, 3" 52trim comp wheel, 0.7 A/R comp cover)

I though the most impressive results were:

501bhp on 94 octane (UK equivalent) at the same boost, giving about 378hp at the wheels.

503bhp 386whp on race gas at 21psi.

Turbo is completely maxed out by 6000rpm, airflow static, power dropping slowly. The combination is very good on the road, I get full boost by 3500 in 4th and 5th gear, 15psi by 3100. But once over 4000rpm the response is very very good, I can balance on the throttle between even drift to severe oversteer and back easily enough.

Despite the improved configuration, turbo shows no significant gains over my Superzilla with 55lb wheel (remember mine now has 52lb wheel) in terms of power or 15psi boost threshold, but on the road the turbo is faster to respond once you in the useable zone.

Bigger turbo for drag racing next year, car only weighs 2600lb with interior (GC8).

My thanks to Larry and Clark for the race fuel pointers, worked as expected this time, no misfire.

Graphs to follow.

Paul

That was good bait. Those are insane numbers, especially the spool up. I'd like to ride in that thing, but I'll have to get across the pond. Sounds like lag is improved by the bearings.

Are you going to try new cams in the future to extend the power curve?

Is that your turbo on the Deadbolt site?

My old turbo is on the deadbolt site yes. New one is a Garret GT30 with original garrett housing and cover. Lag is better, boost threshold a little worse.

A few issues to resolve, I have a GT35R lined up for top end power, in theory it can flow 15% more air.

I already have new cams, but the turbo is so choked up at these boost levels it makes little difference.

Paul

Well this is rather interesting to me ;) As I am planning on picking up a GC8 very soon and putting another RA Spec C in it :devil:

Right now I am pulling 380WHP on 93 Sunoco pump but the car is just to heavy. Was even thinking of trying to wedge a EJ207 into a Brat or something stupid light like that. Wanna talk a sleeper :lol:

Uhg...just what I need, more projects :rolleyes:

U mean the exhaust side is choked up at the turbo inlet (i.e. backpressure)? You must be running an external WG, I'd think you could flow all the way up to 7000 (or 8000 on the EJ207). No?

What cams are you using?

Paul indeed is running an external WG.

BTW this are UK dyno figures they are "quite" different to the US dyno figures, and if I am not mistaken he is already on the high 10s ;).

I think the exhaust is choked up on both sides. The compressor has no more to give, and the exhaust is subject to high back pressure as the turbine is being driven so hard to keep the compressor moving fast enough. Engine revs to 8000, power falls levels of at 6000, starts to fall gradually at 6500, then falls off at 7500.

My airflow as measured by the MAF peaks at 6000rpm, then holds steady till 8000rpm. Of course frictional losses are going up, back pressure is going up and efficiencies and overal power are going down at this point.

Paul

For reference, the turbo I used has the same core I believe as the one used here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634136

edit: wrong thread

Paul indeed is running an external WG.

BTW this are UK dyno figures they are "quite" different to the US dyno figures, and if I am not mistaken he is already on the high 10s ;).
He's also running a GC8 so it is a lot lighter. HP should be HP it's the torque that is measured differently ;)

He's also running a GC8 so it is a lot lighter. HP should be HP it's the torque that is measured differently ;)

Overseas dynos are well known to measure significantly lower than US dyno's (at least in the Subaru community). Just look at the 1/4 mile ET and trap differences between Aus and UK cars compared to US cars. Given similar whp ratings, the overseas cars are faster accross the board. That's the way it has traditionally been, although Pavlo is apparently quoting dyno dynamics software, so who knows.

Pavlo, what do your ET/traps look like?

on old setup (Deadbolt superzilla) 10.9 @126mph, I would estimate the power at that time to be around 480hp as measured like these figures.

A dyno dynamics in the UK is considered ball park, not conservative.

on old setup (Deadbolt superzilla) 10.9 @126mph, I would estimate the power at that time to be around 480hp as measured like these figures.

A dyno dynamics in the UK is considered ball park, not conservative.

ie, 350-360 whp tops? Actually not surprising for a lightweight GC to touch into 10's at those power levels. Sounds like a great car!

Awesome Paul! That thing must be a rocket. I am so close to tearing this GDA down and building up a super sicko V5 car. 2600lbs is no joke and thats alot of power. I wonder if the -12 cart would have produced any significant gains over that -18 cart. I was planning on the GT3540 for my car but recently I got to fondle a real deal GT40R. I think I will go that route with this new turbo kit I am working on. What race gas did you end up using?

Clark

"Fondle" that's what it's all about.

Interesting the cams are not producing more power and the turbine is still choking off high end torque. That's a great data point for me. Are you running Jun 272?

Nice numbers there Paul!

Have you talked to xepher regarding his new setup?
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?t=89519

Larry

The race gas was Klotz 118 (120 RON 116 MON) and it's no joke! Poor (IMHO) ventilation and cooling meant the people outside the car had watering eyes.

whp on the race fuel was a lot higher than 370

With superzilla the whp was about 390 I think.

I don't think that the cams are not producing more power, just that they are not currently the limiting factor.

With 15psi it made over 330whp.

Paul

Paul is this an internal gate setup?

C

Nice setup and numbers Paul! With that kind of power to weight, it must be incredible. Clark mentioned you were using the -18 GT30 CHRA at 52 lbs/min? That CHRA uses the 52 trim compressor wheel, but the same 84 trim turbine wheel as the rest of the larger GT30 CHRAs use.

Do you happen to know what A/R the turbine housing is? For a GT30, that sounds like pretty good spool up!

Nice job Paul.

Jeff Sponaugle
www.pdxtuning.com

Paul is this an internal gate setup?

C

He uses an external WG.

Awesome Paul! That thing must be a rocket. I am so close to tearing this GDA down and building up a super sicko V5 car. 2600lbs is no joke and thats alot of power. I wonder if the -12 cart would have produced any significant gains over that -18 cart. I was planning on the GT3540 for my car but recently I got to fondle a real deal GT40R. I think I will go that route with this new turbo kit I am working on. What race gas did you end up using?

Clark

GC8's :devil: ..... most important of all that all the later STi parts work, even the 6MT gearbox.

Nice setup and numbers Paul! With that kind of power to weight, it must be incredible. Clark mentioned you were using the -18 GT30 CHRA at 52 lbs/min? That CHRA uses the 52 trim compressor wheel, but the same 84 trim turbine wheel as the rest of the larger GT30 CHRAs use.

Do you happen to know what A/R the turbine housing is? For a GT30, that sounds like pretty good spool up!

Nice job Paul.

Jeff Sponaugle
www.pdxtuning.com

Yes that is the same core, with the "full fat" GT30 turbine. The exhaust housing is an 0.82 A/R unit. THe turbo was available with exhaust up and down pipe so I went for it as complete set. It uses a 40mm Turbonetics Racegate, which exits into the downpipe. I had in mind all along to use a large turbo than this. So I am confident I will have a about 120hp more on tap than when I managed 10.9, which in itself could have been bettered on the day given a few more runs (only did 5 in total that day, 2 with correct timing, the 11.0 and 10.9).

I have a new block that I may use to refresh the engine with, and take the opportunity to make some more mods to lift the power some more. Headgasket issues have raised their ugly head again, but this time I think they were killed with misfiring on race fuel the first time I used it.

Onwards and upwards.

Paul

Yes that is the same core, with the "full fat" GT30 turbine. The exhaust housing is an 0.82 A/R unit. THe turbo was available with exhaust up and down pipe so I went for it as complete set. It uses a 40mm Turbonetics Racegate, which exits into the downpipe. I had in mind all along to use a large turbo than this. So I am confident I will have a about 120hp more on tap than when I managed 10.9, which in itself could have been bettered on the day given a few more runs (only did 5 in total that day, 2 with correct timing, the 11.0 and 10.9).

I have a new block that I may use to refresh the engine with, and take the opportunity to make some more mods to lift the power some more. Headgasket issues have raised their ugly head again, but this time I think they were killed with misfiring on race fuel the first time I used it.

Onwards and upwards.
Paul

Nice Paul. I know that the GT30 cores come in either the .63 or .82 A/R hot sides, and I would guess the .82 makes good high end power. Impressive spoolup given that size of turbine housing as well.

Those are some spectacular times given the power level. Good driving, and of course less weight to boot. Are you using any launch control to get better 60fts?

Anyways, does the dyno you use do a coast down to estimate crank HP, simliar to the Unichip Dastek or Mustang? Just curious as to the methods it uses. You suggested 420whp translates to about 553 bhp, which is 133hp loss (24%). I've always been a believer in the crank->wheel loss being something in the form of:

WheelHP = PercentageLossFactor * CrankHP - FixedLossFactor

where the PercentageLossFactor is perhaps 0.90 - 0.95 (representing a loss of 5-10%), and the FixedLossFactor makes up the rest. Over the long run, it is hard to pin all of the 'crank to wheel hp' losses as percentage based, since much of it is rotational inertia and fluid friction, as well as defection in the metals.

Just food for thought.

Cheers!

Jeff Sponaugle
www.pdxtuning.com

Yes it uses a coastdown loss in the same way a Dastek dyno does, the software used on the dyno i went to appears to be written by dastek in fact.

i am still trying to get to the bottom of a weird correction factor which seems to have been applied. As the calculated loss at 553fwhp@6500 appears to be around 75hp, but the wheel hp is only around 414? :confused:

Given that I have already seen other figures along the way which suggest what I got on the race fuel to be a more-or-less valid figure (dyno results when misfiring on race fuel, and from when the superzilla was fitted). But to my mind it appears rather high, and the uncorrected figure rather low.

I am looking at possible problems with the engine now, as something doesn't seem right.

Either way, 8 gallons of race fuel in garage for racing with next year.

Paul

Is one hp SAE corrected (or similar) and the other a raw hp number?

If the 414 wheel hp is a raw number, and you add the 75 hp drive train loss giving a computed raw BHP of 489. That could then be corrected to 553 BHP. That correction factor would be 1.13 which is a little high but possible. The SAE correction is not supposed to be reliable if it is greater than 1.07 .

Here at high altitude we sometimes see SAE corrections of 1.22 - 1.25 so we always use the raw numbers for local comparisons.

Larry

That appears to be the case,although it's corrected to DIN 70020 which corrects to a lower ambient temperature and an overall airpressure of 1013mb rather than a dry pressure as used in the SAE correction.

But given that I recorded peak airflow the same on the dyno as I saw with my superzilla, but I was able to run more ignition advance (increasing power with every extra degree too), and I made 503hp on the SZ, something is weird.

I am not too concerned as I know I am able to find 50hp over pump fuel, and I have a larger turbo waiting for drag racing.

Paul