Has anyone been able to shot flames with their NA 2.5 RS. i'm getting the EL cobb header set w/o cat and wanted to know if i would shot flames?

thanks ace

possibly with no cat.

You can do it with no cats. But why would you want to run a N/A motor with no cats?

You can do it with no cats. But why would you want to run a N/A motor with no cats?

+1

Its ganna sound raspy, and VERY loud.

VERY nice. its not that loud. do it. do it.

+1

Its ganna sound raspy, and VERY loud.
Thats not even the problem, there is no backpressure, hes gonna lose a lot of low end torque, which, IMO, is the best part of the EJ251.

oh gawd no.

car wont run right at all with no cats...
just go buy one of those flame throwing things on ebay or some autoparts store.

i called Cobb to ask these same questions and they said i wouldn't have any problems and that no cats are better

Without the feed-back from the pre-cat O2 sensor and the post-cat O2 sensor, I would think the ECM will go into limp mode. Your mix will then be rich and you will get back firing. Your CEL will also appear.

Without the feed-back from the pre-cat O2 sensor and the post-cat O2 sensor, I would think the ECM will go into limp mode. Your mix will then be rich and you will get back firing. Your CEL will also appear.

Thats why i'm getting a MIL eleminator from subaruwrxparts.com

any success stories out there with no cats??

Thats why i'm getting a MIL eleminator from subaruwrxparts.com

Would the Mechanical Fix be better??

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666756&highlight=Mechanical+CEL+fix

You also may want to invest in getting a code reader/scanner so you can clear all the CEL's your going to STILL GET......

- Plus yer car is going to be stanky... :disco:

C.

- Have Cobb's headers + Cat due to I do have some concern for the evironment... Especially in Smoggy CA.



Thats why i'm getting a MIL eleminator from subaruwrxparts.com

i love the enviro too but i want preformance.

i love the enviro too but i want preformance.


....I'm reporting you to Greenpeace.. :lol:

there is quite a difference without cats. splice the mil eliminator into the rear o2 and you are golden. it smells good, not too strong. whoever is crying about the environment should not drive at all if they are that worried.

whoever is crying about the environment should not drive at all if they are that worried.

That is like saying someone trying to lose weight should eat ZERO food. That is ridiculous. People get incredibly upset when someone messes with there highly fixable and highly unnecessary-for-life car but when someone with some thought about the environment and future generations makes a statement about protecting the non-fixable environment they are met with a comment like this? Pure ignorance and selfishness from where I'm sitting.

I'm not trying to place judgement on those without cats, as that list would stretch on forever and it isn't my place to. Just don't hate on those that don't go catless, whatever the reason may be.

Jared

B.S whining aside....I don't know if my car is "shooting flames" really. Think about it...you'll never actually see it "shoot" flames. You're driving.

With the new headers and cat, and the 2.5 inch cat back, I do get the occasional "pakk-kk" or "pow" out of the exhaust. Whether any flames make it into the atmo, I have no clue. Just enjoy the racket. dammit...must make sound files....

Thats not even the problem, there is no backpressure, hes gonna lose a lot of low end torque, which, IMO, is the best part of the EJ251.

Backpressure does not equal more torque. You want a car with 0 backpressure and maximum velocity in the exhaust. Loss of exhaust gas velocity (Ex: Going to big a diameter exhaust) doesn't get rid of the exhaust gases quick enough out of the cylinders, hence loss of torque.

i talked to anothe associte from cobb today with an 01 rs and he gave me the velcoity of the gases expination to me and it makes sense, so, form what he said is that i will not gain or lose any torque if i run catless. however my friend with a 03 IS300 said that his car ran better with at least one cat, but he has an inline 6 and im on a h4, so the difference in the engine set up makes a big difference i would supose, not only that he has a crappy set of headers (cheap). so that could also make the differance. people need to buy quailty parts not cheap ones. :lol:

i love the enviro too but i want preformance.

i doubt there is a big jump of performance gain with the catless set up... since it's not turbo

you should do the cams, ECU, port the head, etc. then you go catless, shoot some performance flames out...

if your car is shooting flames out becoz it just run too rich, i think it is kinda stupid

imagine when you see someone's car besides you shooting flames out freq. but it doesn't move at all...

Couldn't a resistor be put in place of the rear O2 so the CEL won't come on?
The front o2 reads oxygen right? And the rear reads heat?

yes the resestior would be a MIL elminator, i found them at subaruwrxparts.com for $20 a piece. well worth it and you will need 2. one for the front and one for the rear.

there is quite a difference without cats. splice the mil eliminator into the rear o2 and you are golden. it smells good, not too strong. whoever is crying about the environment should not drive at all if they are that worried.
that's just ignorant. good luck passing emissions....

all you need to do is swap out your headers before you emissions test :lol:

any success stories out there with no cats??

NO cats, NO o2 sensors, car runs AWESOME. Doesn't smell any different than before. Shoots cool flames sometimes.

Any of the naysayers actually speaking from experience?

Any of the naysayers actually speaking from experience?

so how do you shoot flames, did you turn up the fuel or are you runing stock?

The impreza 2.5RS runs a little rich stock. I have 2 cats and I still get backfires sometimes, but they are not very loud. When I had 1 high flow cat and a turbo kit, my car would backfire so loud it would scare people. Anyways, on a stock or near stock N/A 4 banger you are not going to see much of a power gain running catless. Basically it will just be really loud and possibly spit some small flames out. I would suggest getting rid of the stock twin cat section and getting a single high flow cat section, unless you plan on lots of N/A mods or running turbo in the future.
Ryan

The impreza 2.5RS runs a little rich stock. I have 2 cats and I still get backfires sometimes, but they are not very loud. When I had 1 high flow cat and a turbo kit, my car would backfire so loud it would scare people. Anyways, on a stock or near stock N/A 4 banger you are not going to see much of a power gain running catless. Basically it will just be really loud and possibly spit some small flames out. I would suggest getting rid of the stock twin cat section and getting a single high flow cat section, unless you plan on lots of N/A mods or running turbo in the future.
Ryan

when i'm finaly done i will have the stage 2 cobb package for my engine and a new intake from an sti that will be ported and a new tb.

NO cats, NO o2 sensors, car runs AWESOME. Doesn't smell any different than before. Shoots cool flames sometimes.

Any of the naysayers actually speaking from experience?
I'm sorry, but if you aren't running any O2 sensors, your car is not running AWESOME. That is, unless you ripped out the EFI and put a carburetor on it.

The O2 sensors are a required part of the system to function.

As someone who has run catless for a couple years on a 98RS, I can say that there are some gains, but we only removed the cats to make use of RACE GAS.... FOR RACE APPLICATIONS ONLY. Any gains can be directly attributed to the gas and the altered ECU. Did it shoot flames? Probably...but whothephuk cares? It's not like it spews flames ala-carbureted race cars anyway.....

Since then we have reverted back to a hi-flo cat and unleaded racegas. I still don't understand why people want to run a street car catless for the minimal gains and PIA hoops you have to jump through to do it in the first place.

Can't you just buy a whoo-whoo muffler tip instead?


Jay Storm

yes the resestior would be a MIL elminator, i found them at subaruwrxparts.com for $20 a piece. well worth it and you will need 2. one for the front and one for the rear.
You only need one, as the front 02 sensor is upstream of the cats.

I'm sorry, but if you aren't running any O2 sensors, your car is not running AWESOME. That is, unless you ripped out the EFI and put a carburetor on it.

The O2 sensors are a required part of the system to function.

As someone who has run catless for a couple years on a 98RS, I can say that there are some gains, but we only removed the cats to make use of RACE GAS.... FOR RACE APPLICATIONS ONLY. Any gains can be directly attributed to the gas and the altered ECU. Did it shoot flames? Probably...but whothephuk cares? It's not like it spews flames ala-carbureted race cars anyway.....

Since then we have reverted back to a hi-flo cat and unleaded racegas. I still don't understand why people want to run a street car catless for the minimal gains and PIA hoops you have to jump through to do it in the first place.

Can't you just buy a whoo-whoo muffler tip instead?


Jay Storm

Well the car runs better than it did before, it even gets better gas mileage. Like I said, are you speaking from experience? Cuz I don't know how many times I've read people on this board say it won't run at all, or only in limp mode, without the sensors. Obviously they're not speaking from experience, cuz I'm doing it, and it runs better than it ever did before. I don't doubt it would run EVEN BETTER with the sensors in and the new exhaust, but that's not the point. It still runs awesome.

And the point of running catless is it saves a LOT of money, fabrication, and simplicity over a high flow cat. We don't all have deep pockets...

so how do you shoot flames, did you turn up the fuel or are you runing stock?

It did it on stock, although now I'm running parallel fuel rails and an SVX FPR.

Well the car runs better than it did before, it even gets better gas mileage. Like I said, are you speaking from experience? Cuz I don't know how many times I've read people on this board say it won't run at all, or only in limp mode, without the sensors. Obviously they're not speaking from experience, cuz I'm doing it, and it runs better than it ever did before. I don't doubt it would run EVEN BETTER with the sensors in and the new exhaust, but that's not the point. It still runs awesome.

And the point of running catless is it saves a LOT of money, fabrication, and simplicity over a high flow cat. We don't all have deep pockets...Lets see a picture of your setup? There should be no way that the ECU is going to let the car run normal, let alone more efficient without any input from at least one of the 02 sensors. The CEL light will flash for lack of signal. Afterall, it's one of the more important inputs needed to calculate fuel delivery.

For the record, you can buy a hiflow cat for less than a track pipe unless you pull a piece of junk out of a muffler shop dumpster that happens to fit. Not everybody uses a $300 cat.....<$50 from Summit or Jegs. But this is getting offtopic.

Jay Storm

you only need the first O2 sensor before the cats, that measures the exiting exhaust for correct conbustion, the second O2 sensor measures the exhaust for emmission purposes. the way to stop the second O2 from creating a CEL is to add an MIL eliminator.

But he's saying he runs without any sensors (plural). That's why I raised the BS flag.....


Jay Storm

What do you want a picture of? The car's too low to just crawl under and start snapping. I can show you a picture of the sensors if you want.

don't make me put you guys in timeout. were not in kindergarden. i started this thread and i just wanted to know if i could shoot flames. the sensors weren't much of an issues to me b/c i knew how i was going to take care of that isssue. you can bypass both with an MIL iliminator, but there is no reason to. the first O2 sensor just reads exhaust before the cats, the second O2 sensor is for emmison issues.

any one else have feed back on running catless and getting flames out from the tail pipe. i would appreciate pics.

Thanks

ACE

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/advanrs/post-28-1093451371.gif

Dude that is awesome :lol:

cool man, but is that a euro WRX?

what do you think it is?

when was the last time you saw a license plate like that?

I shot flames when i turned the car on with no headers :banana: boy that got me goin, each neighbor practically was lined up to slap me.

its not good to do that you can ruin you cylinder heads and values.

Going catless is completely pointless. Why would you want to do it? It smells horrible and its awful for the environment.

Is it REALLY that important to run a 15.6 instead of a 15.7 WITH a cat?

I doubt the difference would even be 1/10th of a second in a N/A 2.5RS

Going catless is completely pointless. Why would you want to do it? It smells horrible and its awful for the environment.

Is it REALLY that important to run a 15.6 instead of a 15.7 WITH a cat?

I doubt the difference would even be 1/10th of a second in a N/A 2.5RS

+1 ;)

if you rather get better times on the 1/4mile try losing some weight. no, i dont mean your car, i mean your big lazy butt.

if you rather get better times on the 1/4mile try losing some weight. no, i dont mean your car, i mean your big lazy butt.
:lol: :lol: :lol: So true!

Jay Storm

i'm doing this for preformance and coolness factor. i want to shoot flames and scare some people. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Trust me man, your 15 second beast isn't going to scare anyone. In fact the flame shooting will probably just get you laughed at. :p

But hey, do what you will!

its not going to be 15 sec after my

Light weight flywheel
ACT preformance cluch
ApexI N1 Cat-back
COBB tuning CAI
TWE stage 2 cams
COBB EL header
ApexI SAFC2
and
Perrin Lightweight pulley

Yeah but for the cost of all that you could get a motor swap and dip into 13's easy.

i want to be NA, not turbo. i like reliability, not inconsistancy

kirby's are reliable :D

in the of Lil John, WHAAAT!!!!!!

its not going to be 15 sec after my:

You're right, it will be a 14.8 sec :lol:

Seriously man, the money you will spend on that would be much better spent on an engine swap. Low 13's for the win! :banana:

USDM WRX motor swap > pouring tons of $$$ into a N/A motor to still be short 50-60hp

oops, already spent that money. if i do a motor swap i will have lots of little problems, and i have to find the motor too. i dont have that time and i am not a big fan of turbo lag. not only that the reliablity is crap to none on a turbo compared to a NA engine. i have my reasons fo rdoing NA and that all i have to say to that.

any way i will be buying a Sti some time soon.

I like having more than 1 car

N/A Subies are not much more realiable then their turbo brothers.

but when you put so many upgrades on a turbo engine and don't beef up the internals, like most people do, your reliability goes down the drain. if you do the NA engine with the same type of upgrades on a NA, ie cams and heads, you get reliability. i'm not badd mouthing turbos, but i would rather be NA and not have so many little problems, my right foot is heavy and if i wasn't carefull i would break/blow my motor.

TTIW..... :rolleyes:

TTIW..... :rolleyes:
+1

Zach

TTIW..... :rolleyes:

what does this mean. sorry, i'm just stupid :p :confused: :confused: :confused:

TTIW = This Thread Is Worthless.

IE - if you want to be 2F2F and shoot flames out your rear end, buy one of the many kits out there to do it, but don't tell us that its a performance thing.

Zach

it is a preformance thing. i talked to one of the guys at COBB and he said he had the same set up and it was good. he also said that it would be the same if i had a high flow cat on there and that i wouldn't lose or gain any HP or TQE :p , so all i'm asking is if anyone had experience with set up. good or bad.

Thanks

ACE

well, I don't know about scoobies running catless, but my friends VW jetta coupe with no emissions shot flames :) and to be perfectly honest about the emmissions issue, a few cars running catless isn't going to matter when you compare it to the buildup of greenhouse gases that come from the astronomical use of fossil fuel these days... in terms of absolutes, yeah running with a cat is better (and you don't risk stiff fines) but if a few people want to run catless I'm not about to riot.... And if you care about the environment (which I'm sure most of us do) there are a lot of otherways for us to worry about saving it before we go around flaming people because they want to run catless! Besides, maybe he just wants to swap the catless section in for track days :) that's why I want mine, don't really need the extra 10 hp on the street...

cheers,

-reid

and just a little side note, according to:

http://www.teaguesauto.com/exhaust.htm#Exhaust%20Catalytic

the highflow cat is good for about 6-10 hp while the catless is good for about 10-12hp... so 2-6 hp difference between the two...these might both be on the high side but I would imagine that the difference between the two would be accurate (or perhaps even played down) due to the fact that they are charging ~ $105 more for the highflow cat... just some food for thought

your mods list doesnt mean that your cars gonna be fast. by the way the safc isnt gonna do anything for you the ecu will eventually cancel out all your tuning in the safc. it works for 99 and down cars but not your 00RS.

haha...Im in the 14's with half your mods.. :)
oh btw:
http://www.autoloc.com/images/content_products/Flame_06.gifhttp://forums.probetalk.com/images/smilies/icon_ghey.gif

c'mon, that's baller

the beauty of N/A is no turbo lag thats about it.....

Look at f1 cars they have virtually no pipe just enough to get them where they want them for aero purposes