Here in NJ they actually put your car on a 2wd dyno and test your car to a higher standard emissions test.:mad:

First of all I nearly spazed out when I saw the dude testing my car pull up onto the 2wd dyno! Luckily the other tester ran upto him to warn him the car had AWD.

So they ended up testing the car at idle.

What really bothers me about the whole thing is.... why do states like CA and NJ have such strict testing standards... when other states like FL (and other countries for that matter) have none!?

I think its kind of dumb to have varing standards!!!
Anyone agree?

Ask guys in Florida if they want California Standards.

Ask the fruits and nuts in California if they want the Florida Standards.

We are a mobile society. If you don't like where you are, there is always somewhere else.

Emissions testing is some hocus-pocus bull***** IMO. Because of the lack of standards, both nationally and internationally, the half-@ss attempt governments are making are really just laughable.

I suspect that commercial and agriculture gaseous outputs are far greater than anything our cars can do. While I agree that we should still maintain some basic emissions requirements, I for one am not a big fan of dynoing cars (too many monkey@ss emissions testing dudes).

In Illinois (where I am) we also have to do the dyno BS (that is unless you can convince them not to, or you have an AWD vehicle). The emissions centers are privately owned and contracted by the state to do these *MANDATORY* tests.... ***... someone is getting rich while *possibly* beating on our cars. I think this is corrupt government at its best... and corruption and Illinois well they go back a long long time....

Its crazy, here in Illinois you can have your car registered outside of Cook County (most of Chicagoland) and not have to do emissions AT ALL....

lateRZ
"Oh I get it, so if I build up a 1972 or older whatever car, I can spew out as much Noxious gases and CO as I'd like?"

Phlypside -

We have the same BS in Pennsylvania that you have in Illinois. If you live in the vicinity of Pittsburgh or Philadelphia, you are required to have emissions testing every year. However, if you live in one of the other 50 counties in Pennsylvania, there are no emissions tests or standards. Some of my friends that live 25 minutes from me don't have to pay $40 every year just to get an emissions sticker because they live in a county where there is no testing. If I have to pay for emissions testing, I think everyone in the entire state should have to do the same!

Originally posted by BJamerican
Phlypside -
We have the same BS in Pennsylvania that you have in Illinois.....If I have to pay for emissions testing, I think everyone in the entire state should have to do the same!

I agree completely, but I think we should change policies towards leniency, in other words, if they don't have to do it, then ME neither! LOL

lateRZ

Yep living in Pittsburgh sucks! can't wait to finish school and move hehe


Brian

Natural greenhouse gas emissions (methane, mostly) account for over 75% of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Kill more cows! It's just like water...80% of Cali water is used by farmers...15% to keep the waterways and deltas running, and only 5% by the residential customers...but it's the residential customers who have the least power and so get shafted the most.

It's all a different point of view.

JS

Rich ~~ When I had my testing back in January down in Bridgeton they ran the emissions test at 2600 RPM (at least according to the hard copy I was given). I passed, but not by a lot. Good thing is that the check is good for 2 years. How'd you do?

Steve
http://www.forcefed4.com

ahh, yes. The 'look, they're doing something worse than me' defense. I get really tired of people whining about emissions testing, removing cats, etc.

Every little bit makes a difference. We are THE most polluting country in the world. Standards vary because enforcement of emissions standards are left up to the states.

Quitcher bitchin and do your part.

Standards are only left up to the states if the areas are not "high pollution" areas identified by EPA - then there is a federal mandate. Except in California, where they are exempt from many federal mandates because their state requirement is higher.

Just remember, we get the government we deserve. We have chosen this path.

For all those highly modified, fast cars, how do you past the emissions? Here in NC, all they do is check your lights, your mileage etc, and stick a thingy in your exhaust to see if you past. And this thing had been bothering me because one day I'll have a fast car of my own.

Thanks
Subies

Emissions here in CT are very strict. The entire state has mandatory testing, and the testing stations are state-run (the facilities are strictly emissions testing stations, they don't do inspections, maintenance, etc). It seems, from what I've read over the years, that CT is in the minority when it comes to state-run testing facilities. Anyway, that means there's pretty much no chance of anybody getting "hooked up" because they know they can just slip Jed at the state-certified filling station on the corner $100 to pass them. I do think that the state-run testing facilities are a smart way of doing things, but it's probably not feasible in larger states. (I think there are only about 500 of us here in CT, so it's pretty easy ;) ).

These state-run facilities even have AWD dynos, so there's no exemption for Subies and SUVs.

I definitely agree with gavin - I think we should all do what we can to keep things clean. I also own a Mustang, and for a lot of guys with Stangs the first thing they do is install an off-road H-pipe (no cats). Even here in CT, guys will put on the off-road H and just re-install their stock one every two years to pass emissions. I think that kind of stuff is crap. I have cats on my car, and should be making over 400hp at the wheels. I should have the car on a dyno soon, and I'll be getting a chip burned so I can make that much power cleanly. I'd gain maybe 10hp by removing the cats - what's the point?

On the other hand, I agree with the bitchin' going on in this thread. There should definitely be more uniform standards. Those situations in IL and PA just don't make sense. I'm sure it's done to reduce smog in the urban areas, but what about the people who commute from farther out? What is the arbitrary limit of when we need to start emissions testing?

Something should also be done to start getting older cars off the road. I'm not talking about well-maintained cars, I'm talking about the absolute beaters rolling around our expressways. You know, the ones where you can smell the fumes from 100yds behind them at 75mph? We need to get that **** off the road. There was a big front page story in the Hartford Courant recently about how ineffective CT's enforcement is when it comes to emissions. Based on the emissions testing data, something like 80% of the pollution emitted by automobiles in the state is emitted by the worst 10% of emissions offenders. (I don't remember the exact numbers, as it's been a few weeks, but it was pretty disgusting). But the state doesn't do anything about it! I repeat, we need to get that **** off the road!

I am far from an environmentalist, but with today's catalytic converter technology, it doesn't really take much effort or sacrifice to do one's part.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan

I'm right there with Pat... I can't tell you how many times I've seen a minivan with a blown head gasket spewing crap into the air that makes you hardly able to breathe around here. Cops don't give that a second look, but if I roll by at the speed limit... god forbid!

Well, FWIW, I've never run my car without a catalytic converter on it. The original Minnam kit's cat was very suspect though. When I went full 3", I had RalliSpec put in a high flow cat. No big deal in my book.

NJ used to have state run inspections. Then, in one of the state's worst moves, they decided to bid the inspection system. A company from CA won the bid -- because they were the ONLY company to bid! No other company wanted to touch it evidently. Part of the deal was implementation of rolling dyno emissions. The startup went, uh, smooth. :o OK, not really, it was and is a mess. So bad that most stations now require an appointment.

All I can figure is that the federal government threated NJ with the loss of major $$$ if they didn't implement the dyno system. I just hope that someone, and I'm sure at least someONE has, gotten rich. ;)

Steve
http://www.forcefed4.com/

all right you guys,

since I happen to work for the emmisions program here in MD, I guess it's time for me to put my two cents in.

Basically, it's like this. You keep your car tuned CORRECTLY, and you will have no problems passing the test. Here in MD you pay $14 for a test that takes four minutes and lasts you for two years.

I have bad news for you failers out there...the standards are going to be cut. meaning that it's going to become a lot harder to pass the test with modified cars. since you guys drive subies with AWD some won't have to worry about the dyno, because our AWD dynos aren't currently working.

Think about this, just because you can't see anything coming out of your pipe doesn't mean its not there. you see the big trucks on the road with all of the black smoke and you think...why are they allowed on the road? it's not fair right? actually it is, because there are a heck of a lot more cars and light trucks than there are big rigs.

Those of you that have to do dyno tests, just make sure that you tell the inspectors that you have AWD. You wouldn't believe the amount of people who have no idea what they drive.

Happy testing...:lol:

Jazz95

Yippee, Last year Minnesota threw off the reins of political tyranny and did away with the worthless B.S. of testing. Some smart Legislator did a study and found out that testing did not do one lick of good for the enviroment, or the kids or any other feel good Liberal smack they try and sell.
The pollution in MN fell because the old Buicks, Fords, Chryslers etc. were rusting out and being turned into ashtrays. Those old farts where then going out and buying new cars, cars that had cats, and real emission stuff.
That is the best way to clean up the environment, place a tax on the old cars and make the new LEV or ULEV cars tax free. Just think how many people would then decided to buy a new car. Instead MN had a tax on new cars licenses that was crazy when someone bought a new car. So...do I keep my ol' beater and pay $15 for plates or do I buy a new Scooby and pay $450 to licence it??? And yes that was per year!. After a couple of years the price would start to fall. But to give you an idea it was I bought a 94 Jag XJ6(wifes car) paid $11k for it and they charged me $545 for licence plates for it. This on top of the 6.5% sales tax the State already collected.

Its good to see that there are others that feel that same as me.

Gavin, dont get me wrong, I think having clean air is important...
as long as everyone is subject to the same testing proceedures, if not... it is a type of discrimination.

Would you think its fair to wait on a loooong 2 hour line to get your car's emissions tested when others dont even have to bother with it?

What gets me is that... the system is so asinine. The last time I checked... the air over FL is not static... so it moves.
All those emissions flow over other states and contribute to the quality of air. (Has any of you guys ever been to FL?) There are so many cars out there! Traffic and 70MPH zones Im sure are not good to have for clean air.

I agree with Steve and some others when they say its all about money, and making more of it for the state.
Heres the "clean air NJ" link and tell me its not infuenced by political BS:
http://www.cleanairnj.org/

Like I said, its not wrong to have emission testing, but it is wrong to not make it everyone do it the same way.

Remember that new cars are covered by a federally mandated emissions warranty. The OBDII system is designed to alert the driver of any problem that may cause increased emissions, and then the dealer should fix it for free.

In WA, they stopped testing newer cars, and moved it out to 5 years before your first test. Very sane.

They also pulled the 25 year limit back to 20, which means that older cars aren't tested. Can you imagine trying to get a 1978 Dodge past emission testing? This also reflects the fact that people are just driving newer cars.

The real danger area is cars 8-15 years - new enough to still be popular but old enough for things to break.

Glenn

Rich,
Does Florida have anything remotely similar to the area on the NJ Turnpike between exits 12 and 14? I guess it's easier to give automobile drivers a hard time than it is to force businesses to clean up their act. Also, what's up with all those trucks and buses constantly spewing out black smoke? Again, easier to enforce the "average Joe" I suppose.
Do you think you would have better luck at finding a less strict private facility? They're also considering changing the years on the new emmissions testing. Only vehicles older than 96 (or something like that).

Jazz, maybe you can enlighten us on truck emmissions.

Dennis

In my opinion emisions testing in general is BULL****!...
Emissions testing should be reserved for gross polluters...
semitrucks.....old ragged hooptie mobiles.......mopeds....
well maybe not mopeds.

Okay, guys, please don't pick on the big rigs. Most of them are pretty well kept and all big companies have very strict maintenance schedule on the engines, including a minor rebuild every year (or 100,000 miles).

Remember that one big truck can weigh up to 80,000lb, with a payload of about 45,000lb. That's many many times a passenger car or SUV, yet it can still get 6 miles per gallon, and doesn't really pollute that much, if you consider how much it carries. Also, when you see black smoke, it's usually only under heavy load - acceleration or uphill. Once on flat roads, I doubt you can see any smoke out of the stack.

I am not saying all trucks are well maintained, but I'd say most are... And their engines are actually much more advanced than our engines. Total electronic control, drive by wire, electronically controlled torque/hp, etc.

-Ray

OK, anyone who wants to say to hell with the emisions test, c'mon over here to Indiana. Don't have it, at all. Nothing, Notta. I could remove my entire exhaust, cats, header, whatever. I could run a jet engine and be just fine. And plates? Our lottery proceeds have dropped the price about 50%. Sales tax is only 5%. I'm never moving.

Wasn't that MR2 with 3 turbine engines in Indiana?

Now we know..

:D

I'm not so sure we're the "most polluting country in the world." We're the most industrialized probably, but we have pretty strict pollution controls in place. Have you ever been to other countries? The air pollution in much of India is horrendous. Same thing in the middle east in countries like Jordan, and Iran. Same thing in some eastern European countries. And in Africa in countries like Algeria and Morocco. In these countries, sometimes your eyes will burn it's so bad, that your eyes water. And then of course there is the severe water pollution in those countries. The USA is doing much more than its fair share.
I think that the emissions testing for cars is merely a feel good measure and a source of revenue. The benefits are highly dubious.

Originally posted by PhlypSide
"Oh I get it, so if I build up a 1972 or older whatever car, I can spew out as much Noxious gases and CO as I'd like?"

Suddenly, I had a mental image of the russians during the cold war or someone like that driving around in an old old car with agent orange coming out the exaust. The new wave of terrorist attacks! Aaah!

~Loki

To change things up even more, my car was plugged into the OBDII system for emissions check. No sniffer test, no dyno options; there was not an entry anywhere on my certificate saying what pollution content my car put out. Is the OBDII system that great that it knows if the emissions are whacked out or not? Kinda puts a damper on my aftermarket ECU plans if they need the OBDII system to be flawless...

-Jon

I think we are still the most polluting purely because of size, not quality. Our cars have higher emissions standards, but we make up for it with the number of cars.

Everything here's been spot on; older cars need to be recycled; too many states (like Colorado, Minnesota) reward beaters by making their license renewal costs much lower, and not enforcing vehicle inspections that would remove most of these dangerous (bad brakes, bald tires, poor/broken lighting) rust-buckets off the road. When I lived in Colorado, my 85 Accord cost $15 to renew the registration, but my parents paid close to $400 for their new Forrester.

There are a lot of other deviced that pollute a lot more. A lawn mower running for a couple of hours produces more pollution than an Impreza running all week. I don't know what standards exist for motorcycles and snowmobiles, but there are still plenty of places for improvement in emissions from all sorts of motors.