Hey all,
I'm in the market for a new car and the ones that are impressing me right now are the Evo VIII, the STi, and the VW R32 (if i can find one). Obviously i'm looking for something around 30-35k new or last years model that hasn't been sold which is again almost impossible to find with these cars. So i'm just curious if anyone has driven two or more of these cars and what their opinons are.

I would love to hear opinons on:
Any problems people have or have heard of with the cars
Performance/handling, etc.
Is it a good daily driver
How easy is it to work on yourself
Quality of the car, inside and out.
Or anything else that anyone wants to talk about.

Thanks to everyone that replies.

It all comes down to personal preference when choosing any one of the three that you listed. The best thing for you to do is go out and test drive each one. Nobody's opinion should sway you to plop down $30k+ of your money.

but the problem is none of the dealerships want you to drive the cars hard since they're not broken in, and i think that one of the best things to do before throwing down 30g is to ask a lot of questions and get opinions.

What are your future plans for the car?

STI, you wont regret it. I guess people might be a little biased on this board. But ya, like said above, plans for it are also important.
uncle lewie

http://vortex3.rely.net/artman/publish/article_330.shtml?page=1

http://vortex3.rely.net/artman/publish/article_330.shtml?page=1
That article is a little biased because they love VW's so much. In most other comparisons the R32 did not far as favorably.

great article, so i guess you can't really go wrong with any of these cars.

My plans for the car would be a daily driver, probably year round unless i keep my current car for a winter beater. although the winters in mass aren't that bad anymore but the amount of salt they throw on the roads as soon as they see a snowflake is retarded.

Back to the dealerships.

Also for those of you who have WRX's... in particular the sti, how easy is it to work on them yourself? Is it also pretty easy to find upgrades for it? Also, what does it run for stock boost... how high can you boost it on stock internals... :confused:

About as biased as asking a bunch of Subaru owner's which is better. I merely posted it to give some interesting reading that is related to the topic in hand.

From what I've gathered reading aricles and talking to owners, my opinion is simple. If your going to go to the track, get the EVO. If your going to drive it around town every day, get the STI.

Avoid the R32. It sucks. It's heavy, expensive, not-quick, ugly, stupid wheels, least amount of power despite having the most displacement, and it's a VW. Before anyone points it out, yes I drive a VW. That just makes me even more qualified to tell you it sucks.

Also, my opinons are just that opinions.

Also, my opinons are just that opinions.

That's my opinion too. I'm not as down on the R32 as you but for the most part I feel the same way.

I noticed you mentioned something about "easy to work on." I would think the Subaru would be easiest to work on.

Also the R32 is just a converted FWD. I think the Subaru is the only one designed originally to be AWD, rather than a modified FWD platform, but I could be wrong.

i think the most comfortable daily driver would be the R32 by far and its an NA car so the power is always there no need to wait to boost to kick in. But both the STI n EVO out handle n out power the R32. modding the subie n mitsu will also be cheaper. Mods for the R32 r still really expensive.

So get the Evo if u want best handling, get the STI if u want the most power, or get the R32 if u want a balance between power, hadaling and confort.

what about the srt4, its f4st3r!!! HAHA

i think the most comfortable daily driver would be the R32 by far and its an NA car so the power is always there no need to wait to boost to kick in. But both the STI n EVO out handle n out power the R32. modding the subie n mitsu will also be cheaper. Mods for the R32 r still really expensive.

So get the Evo if u want best handling, get the STI if u want the most power, or get the R32 if u want a balance between power, hadaling and confort.

what about the srt4, its f4st3r!!! HAHA

You might be a little off on "waiting for boost". The 2.5L in the STi has plenty of low-end power to be a great daily driver. It might not have as much as the r32 (I've never been in one) but I know for a fact that the Sti would work great as a daily driver. Way up here almost every STi owner has it as a daily driver. Boost also kicks in fairly quick on an STi anyway. And hey, if you ever decide to mod your car-of-choice I'm pretty sure a boosted car will be easier than the R32.

I don't know that I'd ever buy an N/A VW... people seem to be unhappy with them for some reason and seem to prefer the turbo VWs. Woulda been interesting to see a w8 turbo setup in a passat or some other car. I'm pretty sure that coulda give more than a few cars a run for their money. but that's off-topic...

as someone already said - this is just my oipnion

if you are looking to spend $30-$35k, check out a slightly used Volvo S60R, they are around $30k with 20k miles on them. faster than an R32 and much more "car" so to speak. It is 300hp, haldex AWD, 6spd and the 4C adjustable suspension (if that interests you). Aside from a bad turning radius it is a fantastic car.

if you get a CPO car, certified pre-owned, you would have a 100k mile warranty from Volvo.

swing by www.swedespeed.com or Volvo's website for specs.

I was all psyched about the R32 until I drove one. Very light clutch, felt slower than my wrx, and it has an annoying valve in the exhuast thgat limits sound at low rpm- but it opens and closes so much it sounds like a broken toy.

I'm a HUGE R32 fan, although I like the STi a great deal as well...The EVO, not so much. The R32 is literally on rails. The car has a TON of potential. It is also the only car listed that is N/A in the group...That has both its ups and downs.

For me, the R32 is nearly a dream car. It can be easily tune to do whatever you want (Although, so can the others). In my opinion, the R32 also has the nicest interior of the bunch...Sporting some wonderful Recaros. There is also a supercharger upgrade, I believe from PES, and you're running with the best of them. There is a small Canadian company, doing a dual turbo upgrade, and claiming 700 or so HP.

The STi, is a completely different animal. In a straight line, it'll eat the R32, but come the corners...I'd put my money on the R32, although not by much. The STi is an awesome machine!

I just think the R32 is better, as far as having, what I would consider, better fit and finish, espeically for a daily driver, although you can't go wrong with either.

Also, the clutch feel in the R32 is intentially light, due to longer clutch fingers (Giving that traditional VW/Audi high engagement). It is still a performance clutch, just tuned to allow for easy daily driving.

That valve, I agree, is dumb, but can be pulled easily, to give a pretty mean growl.

I In my opinion, the R32 also has the nicest interior of the bunch...Sporting some wonderful Recaros.
The seats in the R32 are made by Koenig.

I drove all three before buying the STI and all of them are great cars.
The R32 drove well but it lacked the punch of the EVO or the STI but it handled about the same as the STI. If you are bigger the seats are alittle smaller and were to tight if you have wide shoulders. The EVo was comfortable to ride in but the power seems to come on late but when it does it comes on strong. It handles like it is on rails and it has a little ruffer ride but if you don't mind a really stiff ride it is a great car.Also the inteior seemed alittle cheaper feeling.I chose the STI because the interior was more comfortable the power comes on strong early and it makes a great every day driver. But if you plan on really going crazy moding it out later on the EVO power plant seems to have more potential for handling crazy horse without having to touch the bottom end of the motor from what I've been reading.Where the STI seems to be limited to around the 500 HP mark without doing internal engine work.But this is all based on my own opion.But you definately can't go wrong with any of these cars they are remarkable rides.
Another car to look at is the Lexus IS300 great car lots of potential for later mods and they can make great hp but they are not all wheel drive that was its biggest draw back for me and it is about the same cost as the other 3 cars.Hopes this helps and like I said this is only my opion.
Scott
05 STI Plat Sil

Horrible waranties, Horrible service, horrible differentials, Horrible horrible horrible. Except for the interiors. They are pretty nice.

Horrible waranties, Horrible service, horrible differentials, Horrible horrible horrible. Except for the interiors. They are pretty nice.
What do you base that on?

I just traded in my '01 VR6 for the STI. I had numerous electrical gremlins and window failure issues from day one (both passenger and drivers side windows fell inside the door three times each side!) while driving down the road. The R32 would have to be a whole lot quicker than the STI to ever consider going back.
Rick
'05 STI

i drove all 3, and coming from a guy that has only had german cars..

i had a vr6 corrado, 2 vr6 golfs, audi a4 1.8t, and my last car, a widebody 400whp s4...

we were going to build a twin turbo r32...

i went and drove the r32, evo, and sti...

i bought the sti...but geuss what...we now have an evo mr also......

the r32 is a fantastic daily driver.... quality is better than both.... both the sti and evo rattle.....

but sporty-wise you cant beat the subie.......

i love it

but, we may have a twin turbo r32 shortly also ;)

pick what you love, no one can tell u different

cb
chadblock.com

R32- VW's arent known for their reliablity, and from other GTI's and golf's I have seen they tend to be rather poorly made. My girls MkV is falling apart, and the people at VW dont even really care. I drove the R32 and thought it was sluggish and didnt handle amazingly. Nice car, certainly in comparison to other MkV's I have driven. But with dealers asking some times as much as five thousand dollars over MSRP for these cars, why would you even consider it?

STI- Very nice car both inside and out. Some people like the new suby look, some hate it. I happend to think it looks great. Very streetable and practical engine, good power. Suspension is a little soft, but can easily be changed. Easy to make some serious power with minimal mods.

EVO- Another very nice car with excellent handling and performance. Little harder suspension than STI, and EVO steering is better than 04 STI steering(STI steering rack was updated though in 05). Proven durable powerplant and nice seats. Interior was a little bland for me, but some like it..

If I had to choose one, it would definetely be the STI. Yes I am biased, but for a real performance sedan only the EVO and STI contend. The R32 simply doesnt keep up, and its lack of factory forced induction makes major tuning expensive. With Mitsu's recent financial problems and EVO owners having warantee problems, I would use that as furthur justification.

But as was said above, pick the car that you feel most connected to. Which would you be most upset about if all three were burning in a fire?;)

Yeah I went to go look at both STi and EVO and I sat in the STi and fell in love with it. EVO seemed kinda plane I enjoyed the Recaros but the trim and gauges where just so plane and boring. Im no so much of a big fan of the EVO VIII with the triangle in the nose. Maybe EVO VII. Purchased the STi and have no regrets had no stereo but got that fixed + no speakers got that fixed also. I love the power.

I don't know if this helps you any but recently Leh Keen took his 05 STi out against an 03 Evo on the track and beat it by 2 seconds..... there was a 30 percent change in the 2005 STi as well, it has a wider rear fender and rear bumper, and has had a significant change in the suspension to help it with understeer.... i wish i could have one i only test drove it.

I don't know if this helps you any but recently Leh Keen took his 05 STi out against an 03 Evo on the track and beat it by 2 seconds.....
And that "test" meant nothing, it was just two friends out on a track having a good time. There were too many variable for any one to draw a conclusion from it.

Sorry if I repeat something someone else said. I got tired of reading peoples posts...

I think that the poor VW consumer ratings are enough NOT to get an R32. Asisde from that, this last weekend in baltimore md we recieved 4-5 inches of snow. I pulled an R32 out of the snow that my wifes toyota corolla drove through. It was a brand new car that hadn't been lowered or anything. It appeared that it has front and rear open diffs. kind of a waste in my opinion.. BUT I would also tell you my experience with looking and purchasing my new WRX. 1st, my insurance for an STi would be over $100 a month more than my 05 WRX. The Evo would be $115 more, because of personal injury risk is too high. So I opted for the WRX because it was 24k rather than 31k and my insurance is $100 less a month I figured by the time I paid it off in 5 yrs I saved over 12k and will have a car that is basically just as fast and will look just as good as an STi.

Oh I'm for the STi over the competition

wait for the evo 9

or the EVO X..


reminds me of the Rocky movies.

I drove all 3 before I purchased my STi. I had a relatively trouble free Passat and have owned both subaru's (several GL wagons, and a brat) and a Mitsu (Montero) in the past.

The evo was the first thing to be eliminated. The dealer was horrible. The smarmy sales guy asked me to sign a credit app before he would talk numbers. A test drive was offered. Just a really sleazy dealership. Then the stuff about mitsubishi's executives directing policies to defraud cutsomers came out. Then talk of bankruptcy. I keep my cars for a long time. So Mitsu was out. Notice I haven't mentioned the car yet. Yeah it was great. Amazing handling. kinda doggy off boost, but a very impressive piece.

R32 was very german in character. It felt like a previous generation M3 with better handling. Very finely finished interior. I was very impressed with the car.

Then I drove the STi. The power of the STi is what seduced me. Also, I'm anticipating "subaru reliability". The steering was fantastic, but not better than the evo. The Subaru dealer was also courteous and professional. He knew I knew what the car cost him. So he gave me a very reasonable number right up front ($400 under invoice). The entire process with the Subaru dealer was fun. Like it should be.

Evo
Benefits: eaasy to tune for more hp, fantastic handling, largest back seat, nice recaro front seats
Problems: made by Mitsubishi, sold through Mitsu dealers, crappy dash, bad depreciation, unknown reliability

R32
Benefits: Very Very nice interior, better ride, hatchback with folding rear seat, best looking
Downside: NA engine harder to get power gains, handling biased towards understeer, VW reliability, not as fast or as sharp handling as other 2.

Subaru STi:
Benefits: Huge power, even off boost, rwd feeling handling, Subaru reliability, Subaru of America, Subaru Dealers. Great Dash, decent interior. 6 speed tranny.
Downside: worst front seats of all 3, Cost more to tune than Evo. Smallest interior. Rear seat doesnt' fold.

Hope this helps.

Don

I used to know someone who worked at a car dealership that sold VW, Subaru, and Toyota and said that the VWs were always coming back for problems- especially electrical. The other 2 just came for oil changes and regular maintance. Keep in mind these were brand new cars with tons of problems. That and how easy is it to make the VW a 400-500hp car. Very easy on an STI. And if your worried about the ricer look of the STI just swap exterior parts with a standard Impreza.

My Passat, while it gave great service, and is still running strong at 180K+, has had electrical problems since day 1.

Fortunately I purchased the VAG Com software (kinda like Delta Dash) and was able to diagnose most stuff myself, and repair for relatively little money.

Don

p.s. Great example, I had a problem with my cruise control turning off. VW dealer wanted to replace the cruise control module. Keep in mind that electrical components are not returnable. So if that didn't fix it, I'd still have to pay for it.

I had a local guy with a Vag Com come and scan my car. He found an intermitant brake light switch problem. I replaced the switch for $18 and the problem was fixed. I bought the software myself the next day.

I owned a gti vr6... nice car, no r32, but a nice car none the less.

I now own a sti... the sti is bananas!

a brand new r32 hit me up to run the other day, and i banked on him REAL bad. He didn't even want to talk or run it back afterwards, he just turned around and left. I think he was heading back to the dealership to return it.

Also the R32 is just a converted FWD.

Remember the Haldex in the R32 is primarily FWD until there's slip, then there's mechanical pumps that allow some RWD with the FWD ;)

But didn't the R32 sell for like $61k at the Barrett-Jackson auction?

Fortunately I purchased the VAG Com software (kinda like Delta Dash) and was able to diagnose most stuff myself, and repair for relatively little money.


http://ross-tech.com

Andy is a friend of mine.

Remember the Haldex in the R32 is primarily FWD until there's slip, then there's mechanical pumps that allow some RWD with the FWD ;)

But didn't the R32 sell for like $61k at the Barrett-Jackson auction?
That was a HPA twin turbo r32.

being a memeber of the nasioc, obviously i would take the sti...but i am very impressed with the EVO's agility i keep reading about.. in addition i love european styling and the look of the R32, plus the exhaust note is music to my ears, i could listen to that thing allllllllllllllllllllllll day :cool:

R32=teh junker

As far as the other two, flip a coin, blindfold yourself and spin, rock paper scissors... it really doesnt matter. And I say this because they are both so awesome and both have positives and negatives.

If you just love the STI get it, if you just love the Evo get it. Put it this way, everyday I am both completely satisfied with my STi and wish I had an evo. Great cars, have fun, dont buy the R32.

I'm a VW/Subaru technician at a dealership, so I've seen the good and the bad of both these products...
I've owned my STi for about 16 months now, and can honestly say if I could do it all over again, for practicality reasons I would have been much happier with an 04 WRX. Or better yet, an 05 Legacy GT. Maybe even a 20th Anniversary GTI- believe it or not...

STI=

pros: obviously, raw power; arguably the best transmission available to date in the US for under 100K; low center of gravity; optimum power transfer layout; simple, logical electronics design; anybody with 50 bucks worth of tools from Sears can upgrade/modify/bolton... perfect for a weekend toy.

cons: very thin paint; very poor quality of interior materials (for the price); unimpressive headlights (for being HID's); very strict/sketchy policy regarding warranty repairs to transmission (thanks to certain owners who launched early WRX's till they broke, and earned a reputation); back seat doesn't fold; very uncomfortable when taking long trips (normal driving)

R32=

pros: arguably the 'coolest' 6 cylinder engine ever mass-produced; unique looks that are unmistakable and timeless; awesome brakes without the horrible noises plagued by Brembos and other similar products; an extremely high quality interior with a true cockpit feel that is comfortable AND supportive, even for long trips; very high quality factory paint, and body finish; a huge amount of cargo room when lowering the rear seats; ESP on this car is idiot-proof; impossible to steal unless you have an authorized key or a flatbed and a winch;

cons: VW manufactured it, and although I haven't seen a single problem with even one R32- not even a rattle complaint- I would still fear the day that a wiring problem would arise (70% of my work is VW wiring repair/issues); very very difficult and expensive to work on if attempting to upgrade the powertrain; poor front ground clearance (driveway exits are obstacle courses); VERY expensive to repair/maintain.


My insurance company required that I open a life insurance policy when I purchased insurance for the STi, I got a kick out of that... VW's are cheaper to insure because the theft rates are VERY low; Both cars have an unmistakable sounding engine, but I would have to say that the VR6's growl is infinitely more addictive than any boxer rumble; the R32 is a daily driver that has enough power to get you around with comfort and a smile, and uniqueness that few other cars can offer; the STi is a guaranteed-to-scare-your-passengers-mobile, that has enough raw power to justify the worst fuel economy of any 4 cylinder out there; takes a while to master the driving skills, but it is rewarding on the racetrack or anywhere you're lucky enough to open it up without going to jail; it has become a celebrity on the streets that will always be hated by the V8 kids; best of all, Honda owners will despise you as long as you own it.

To summarize it all: STi: harsh daily driver/perfect weekend toy ... R32: slightly underpowered, otherwise perfect little machine that will empty your pocketbook and carry a ton of cargo; EVO: I wouldn't know, other than it looks and feels cheap and Mitsu made it, that says a lot.

Feel free to criticize, folks, that's what makes it fun.

thankyou for that. I know this isn't a thread I started but that's got to be the best write-up so far.

thankyou for that. I know this isn't a thread I started but that's got to be the best write-up so far.

Except the mitsu is not just cheap crap because its a mitsu.... sheesh :rolleyes:

And at least they didnt lie about forged pistons.

I had a gli vr6 now that engine was great at first then I noticed at about 30,000 miles that it started to feel real sluggish and things started falling apart inside and out I will never own another volkswagen. The sti however makes me smile everytime I get in. yes the ride can be harsh and noisy but its so much fun I almost love even the negative parts of the car maybe its conditioning

I noticed you mentioned something about "easy to work on." I would think the Subaru would be easiest to work on.

Also the R32 is just a converted FWD. I think the Subaru is the only one designed originally to be AWD, rather than a modified FWD platform, but I could be wrong.

Thats not exactly true...The r32 uses a proven AWD system, and the entire rear suspension if not from a gulf. If I'm not mistaken its the components from and audi TT. You ould call it converted, but all its pieces are designed to be used with an awd system. Its not as fast...but its torquey, and handles great...

John

elirentz: I can imagine you were frustrated with your 03 GLI: those cars were basically stock Jettas with upgraded seats, 24V VR6 and a 6 speed transmission. And they were WAY overrated and overpriced. That car did not come with a true sport suspension or upgraded brakes. Why they badged it GLI? Who knows.

Now, if you want to drive an awesome Jetta (BTW these are going out of production and will hold their value), check out the 04-05 GLI. 18" BBS's, true sport suspension, massive brakes, Votex body kit and exhaust, Recaro seats, black headliner, nice sound system, turbo/6 speed, LSD, real brushed aluminum trim, etc etc etc. Yes, I know it's still a VW- but to be honest with you, I haven't seen a single 337, 20AE, or GLI come in with anything more than minor interior trim issues. VW puts a lot of attention to detail into these models. And even though I hate VW for having such crappy wiring, the limited production sport compacts (GLI turbo/337/20AE) are the funnest car to drive for under 30K.

And like REX8 said, the R32 is not some retrofit setup that wasn't intended to be there; it does share traits similar to the TT. Not the best AWD platform, but then again the R32 is not a full-time mechanical AWD like Subaru and DSMs. Very different.

And like REX8 said, the R32 is not some retrofit setup that wasn't intended to be there; it does share traits similar to the TT. Not the best AWD platform, but then again the R32 is not a full-time mechanical AWD like Subaru and DSMs. Very different.

If you want further reading on the R32, search for how HALDEX works. Not quattro, not 4motion, but it's HALDEX.

It is not converted FWD at all, but the car behaves like a FWD car until it detects slip.

There is no comparison on VW/Audi quality vs a subaru. They are at opposite ends of the scale.

I have owned a GLI and an S4. Both were junk - although they were nice when not in the shop and a ball to drive. At 60K, the S4 had the transmission and then the turbos go - and that is typical for the car. With the $$$ spent fixing that, I could have bought half of a WRX.

(I am not a big fan of the FWD hybrid on any transverse mounted VW/Audi AWD - although I love the torsen based longitudinally mount VW/Audi AWD)

Meanwhile my subie just keeps on trucking along.