I know people always say that F1 testing results are meaningless, and they said the same things when Ferrari came out to play with the other children early last season, and smoked 'em. Then we saw what happened during the season. With that in mind...

I figure people are testing in earnest for a number of reasons, not the least of which are new technical regulations. They have to get the tire thing figured out (too bad there wasn't another Bstone team there to put Ferrari in perspective), and come to grips with the new cars. Four tenths off of last year's pole in a 2005-spec car is pretty scary. The new rules were supposed to slow the cars by two to three seconds per lap. We know that the engineers will get a lot of that back, and we don't know what anyone is running. After all, BAR was setting all kinds of records in pre-season testing.

I, for one, find testing interesting, not to mention that it's Formula One cars being driven in earnest! :banana: :banana: Woot!

<<Barcelona : impressive result by Schumacher
The World Champion dominates

Schumacher is back!

A total of four teams were testing today in Barcelona. Despite a newly resurfaced track that is slippery and still slightly bumpy, Michael Schumacher was able to achieve very fast times.

On the other hand, Williams, Red Bull and Toyota were significantly behind the times set last month on this track (on the old tarmac).

It must be noted that Ferrari is the only team using Bridgestone tyres in this test.

As a comparison, Michael Schumacher's 2004 pole position time for the Spanish Grand Prix was 1'15"022. The track record is still held by Takuma Sato (3 February 2004) in 1'13"797.

Barcelona - 18/01/05
1. Michael Schumacher - Ferrari - 1'15"461 - 103 laps
2. Mark Webber - Williams BMW - 1'17"137 - 92 laps
3. Antonio Pizzonia - Williams BMW - 1'17"357 - 92 laps
4. Jarno Trulli - Toyota - 1'18"392 - 54 laps
5. David Coulthard - Red Bull - 1'18"449 - 62 laps
6. Vitantonio Liuzzi - Red Bull - 1'19"544 - 58 laps
7. Ralf Schumacher - Toyota - 1'19"961 - 47 laps


Hugo GIGUERE>>

Go Ferrari!

This year means more then most, like you said because of all of the changed regs. It is just so hard to tell what it all means becuase teams are running hybrids of this years car and last and BAR and Sauber at least are running radical noses. I can only assume that the numbers are at best skued and at worst they are all sand bagging each other as much as possible while collecting as much data as they can. It hard to tell what enigne/gear box/ compound of tires (or tyres)/ fuel/ ballast/ wing setting ..........

I dont expect the cars to lap much slower this year, they will be slower in the corners due to a drop in grip at the higher downforce tracks, but will be faster down the straights due to lower drag. I expect Monza speeds to be even faster than last year.

Poor Ralfie.

How long will he last at Toyota?

and ferrari hands everyone there butt again...looks like a season of fallings ratings yet again...

I would think lap times would be alot slower than last year because of the 1 set of tires per race rule.

Poor Ralfie.

How long will he last at Toyota?
With Toyota's track record he will ast until the team doesn't get a win. They blame their drivers rather then their engineering. Hey look, there goes Salo, McNish, da Matta, Zonta, Panis and Trulli and Ralphie are right behind them.

Go Ferrari!


pft, rooting for ferrari now-days is old. just like being a yankee fan. not cool, and much too easy.

Damn, I can't keep up with these trends.
<--runs to closet to throw out yankee apparel.

So the rule changes for 2005 are less downforce & one set of tires per race?

Tires are everything. These all-weekend tires compared with last year's gumballs should drop lap times by 3 seconds. By season's end that should narrow, but it will take time.

I agree, Toyota's revolving door for drivers is ridiculous. I thought Salo and McNish where a great duo, and obviously their replacements fared no better. Trulli and Ralfie are two bonified top drivers however, so Ova would do well to hang onto them for more than a season this time.

I wonder why so many of the photos show them running tires that have intermediate style of tread.

Damn, I can't keep up with these trends.
<--runs to closet to throw out yankee apparel.

So the rule changes for 2005 are less downforce & one set of tires per race?
Yes. And the engine has to last 2 full race weekends or you get docked 10 places on the starting grid. So you the way I've heard it is that if you blow an engine in Canada practice you loose 10 spots for that GP and 10 spots for the USGP. :confused:

Dussander,
So many of them are running inters is becuase Barcelona surface is so messed up that at least BAR are getting better times with them.

Yes. And the engine has to last 2 full race weekends or you get docked 10 places on the starting grid. So you the way I've heard it is that if you blow an engine in Canada practice you loose 10 spots for that GP and 10 spots for the USGP. :confused:

Dussander,
So many of them are running inters is becuase Barcelona surface is so messed up that at least BAR are getting better times with them.

The 2 race weekend engine rule is lame.

What are the rules for getting a puncture in practice before a GP on your all-weekend tires then?

I think you only get a certain number of tires per weekend so if you cut one or flat spot one you have to go back to your practice tires which most likely are already flat spotted and cut. Lame indeed.
The worst part is that nothing is finalised on the rules about tires or engines or qualifiing. The teams are all left out int he cold. Sometimes I don't understand why the FIA can't make their choices earlier, like before the end of the previous season. They end up costing the teams more money for having to prepare and run models on ump-teen different possible rules and only getting 1.

I wonder why so many of the photos show them running tires that have intermediate style of tread.
Because currently Barcelona is VERY slippy..they resurfaced the track recently and the oil is seeping out of the tarmac....a couple more teams were scheduled to test there too but they moved to Valencia because of it

I think you only get a certain number of tires per weekend so if you cut one or flat spot one you have to go back to your practice tires which most likely are already flat spotted and cut. Lame indeed.
The worst part is that nothing is finalised on the rules about tires or engines or qualifiing. The teams are all left out int he cold. Sometimes I don't understand why the FIA can't make their choices earlier, like before the end of the previous season. They end up costing the teams more money for having to prepare and run models on ump-teen different possible rules and only getting 1.

They get three sets of tires, ideally one set for practice, one for qualifying/race, and one for just in case. I don't believe there is a penalty for changing in case of a flat, but I could be wrong on that.

I think that much of the haggling was an effort to get the teams to agree, and they couldn't agree with each other, OR the FIA.

Qualifying is also a done deal, such as it ever is (everything in F1 is, unfortunately, subject to the whims of Mosley and/or Ecclestone). One hour on Saturday, one hour on Sunday morning, fastest aggregate time wins. Still single-lap, etc, just like last year.

Kevin

Does anyone know if the engine has to used for 2 consecutive races?
Might be an advantage to have a fresh engine at a certain track or while the others are using their old one.

Does anyone know if the engine has to used for 2 consecutive races?
Might be an advantage to have a fresh engine at a certain track or while the others are using their old one.

Yes, the engine has to last two full race weekends (practice, qualifying and race).

Kevin

At what point does it make more sense to change engines and take the 10 spot? For a track like Monza or Spa it seems to be careful and change engines after qualifiing so that you can make it the race distance for sure.
Kevin,
I don't think there is an offical penalty either for changing tires, just you'll be running on a pre-used mismatched set.
Kevin

At what point does it make more sense to change engines and take the 10 spot? For a track like Monza or Spa it seems to be careful and change engines after qualifiing so that you can make it the race distance for sure.
Kevin,
I don't think there is an offical penalty either for changing tires, just you'll be running on a pre-used mismatched set.
Kevin

Yep. Makes sense. I imagine that the penalty incurred in taking the time to come in and change tires would be sufficient.

Didn't Ferrari try the fresh engine thing last year, to ill effect?

Oh, at Barcelona today the Williams cars are at the top of the sheet, but nobody's close to the time Schumacher set yesterday.

Kevin

...Qualifying is also a done deal, such as it ever is (everything in F1 is, unfortunately, subject to the whims of Mosley and/or Ecclestone). One hour on Saturday, one hour on Sunday morning, fastest aggregate time wins. Still single-lap, etc, just like last year.

Kevin

Yeah....except.....this year, they will be allowed to run a light fuel load for the saturday qualifying and add race trim fuel for sunday morning.
This should be MORE interesting to the fans (and stategically for the teams, given that the times are aggregated).

Better,IMHO......saturday qualifying, we'll get to finally compare apples to apples so to speak between the cars, without speculation as to fuel load and pitstop strategies.................

BriDrive

With regard to testing times...they don't necessarily indicate anything, as the teams are not required to adhere in any regard to specific 2005 championship season rules and specifications.

The tires will certainly make the cars slower as the season kicks off. I predict, as I think someone mentioned earlier, that the cars will work their way back as the season progresses...but its going to be seconds (compared to last year)...if his F1 history and its regular rules changes are any indication.

BMW's technical director estimated that they will lose 1 second per lap for every 10% decrease in aero...that's without regard to new tire specs, mind you.

They generally agreed on losing 30% aero downforce with a 2004 spec car with 2005 aero specifications...and all hope to make 20% of that back....by somewhere in the season. The new rear body work specs mandate complete revision as well to rear diffusers and aero design of airflow management to the whole back half of the car.

I predict radically slower times for the first quarter of the season at least...(3~5 seconds)...........Of course I could be wrong...............

BriDrive

Yes, the engine has to last two full race weekends (practice, qualifying and race).
I was wondering if they have to use the same engine in round 1 & 2 before switching. Or could they save the engine used in round 1 for round 4 nd put in a new engine for round 2.

Yeah....except.....this year, they will be allowed to run a light fuel load for the saturday qualifying and add race trim fuel for sunday morning.
This should be MORE interesting to the fans (and stategically for the teams, given that the times are aggregated).

Better,IMHO......saturday qualifying, we'll get to finally compare apples to apples so to speak between the cars, without speculation as to fuel load and pitstop strategies.................

BriDrive

But wasn't last year's pre-qualifying just like this year's Saturday qualifying, except that this year, the time counts for something? Last year, they were low fuel too, and someone commented that it was a shame that pre-qualifying didn't count for all that much, as that was when the cars were running in actual qualifying trim.

I'd still love to see a return to the old way of qualifying. Even with the 20 minutes of dead time before the drivers took to the track, the pole chase was the stuff of gladiator matches. Now, it's one lap, to live or die by.

You're right about the testing, but I still wonder if they aren't doing more with the '05-spec stuff, prompted by the great unknown. I read (or heard?) earlier this year that Ferrari had tested what was essentially an '05-spec car, and were about a second and a half slower than the F2004, which was surprising.

In race trim, I, like you, expect them to be comparatively slow. Less power, harder tires, heavier fuel loads (if you can't change rubber, why pit all that often) and less downforce, along with a car that will be trickier at the limit.

Kevin

I was wondering if they have to use the same engine in round 1 & 2 before switching. Or could they save the engine used in round 1 for round 4 nd put in a new engine for round 2.

No, the rules stipulate consecutive weekends, which means they will probably rev lower, and all that stuff. It will certainly make it more of a driver's series, that's for sure. It also makes you wonder how those "grab it by the neck and make it work" types like Montoya and Raikkonen will do, with only one set of tires that they have to make last for an entire race.

I like Coulthard's chances, not for the championship, but for a higher placing in the championship. He did a lot of one-stoppers last season, so he's used to saving his tires, and he's smooth. So are guys like Webber and Button. And don't forget about Barrichello. Schumacher's car setup has been known to be hard on tires, because he likes it so close to the edge. This could work in Woobins' favor as the race progresses.

I'm really looking forward to this season. Yes, there's a lot of uncertainty, but within that uncertainty, should be some great racing. Ferrari wins a lot with pit strategy, as well as outright pace. The tire thing removes some of that. Power-wise, they've never really had the most powerful engine, but they have been supremely reliable, which some are saying makes them the favorites.

I think it's as wide open as it has been in years, however. Forty-five days can't pass quickly enough, IMHO.

Kevin

I think Mario Thessien (?) BMW motorsport director was predicting that they would not loose too many revs to make the engine last 2 weekends. I find it hard to believe but then again, he knows a lot more about them then I do.

They get three sets of tires, ideally one set for practice, one for qualifying/race, and one for just in case. I don't believe there is a penalty for changing in case of a flat, but I could be wrong on that.

I think that much of the haggling was an effort to get the teams to agree, and they couldn't agree with each other, OR the FIA.

Qualifying is also a done deal, such as it ever is (everything in F1 is, unfortunately, subject to the whims of Mosley and/or Ecclestone). One hour on Saturday, one hour on Sunday morning, fastest aggregate time wins. Still single-lap, etc, just like last year.

Kevin
actually it's 2 sets of tires..

1 set for practice and qually 1
1 set for qually 2 and race

at least I think it's that..the first set may have to last both qually's leaving just the race to the 2nd set but I'm not sure....anyway there is no 3rd set. If there is a puncture or something they have to replace the tire w/ a previously used tire from the 1st set

and what about this...1 engine has to last 2 race weekends...but there are 19 races this year!! that means the last engine only has to last 1 race weekend...wonder how hard they will push it!!

and what about this...1 engine has to last 2 race weekends...but there are 19 races this year!! that means the last engine only has to last 1 race weekend...wonder how hard they will push it!!

:lol:

They'll have to run Silverstone twice! :lol:

I got the three sets of tires thing directly from the official F1 website, but given the state of flux, that could have changed. I think someone figured that the third set could be in case someone ruined rubber in practice, then flatted in the race. A car on dead rubber is a safety issue, hence the third set.

Then again...who knows?

Kevin

i'm with you on the original qualifying format Kevin. I think they realise it was the best solution but cant stomach the fact going back to it will show how wrong they have been for the last few years. The old qualy mad last 10 minutes was fantastic TV, it's dull as dishwater now.

:lol:

They'll have to run Silverstone twice! :lol:

I got the three sets of tires thing directly from the official F1 website, but given the state of flux, that could have changed. I think someone figured that the third set could be in case someone ruined rubber in practice, then flatted in the race. A car on dead rubber is a safety issue, hence the third set.

Then again...who knows?

Kevin
looks like we were both wrong!

"The new tyre regulations dictate that each driver has four sets of dry-weather tyres : two sets for evaluation purposes on Friday, one set for Saturday morning practice, and the final set for both qualifying sessions and the Grand Prix"

The tire rules, when finally figured out, will be interesting.....They will still have to answer "what if's" for example. Like, what if my driver hits debris and cuts a tire on lap 12? Can I come in for a new set, or am I effectively out of the race now...(Lots of hypotheticals that are going to, if they haven't already, spur additional controversy and disagreement from the teams)

BriDrive

Mike Gascoyne from Toyota asked an intresting question if you can change tires form side to side? If you can, do you have to do after you put in fuel or can you do it during refueling?

The tire rules, when finally figured out, will be interesting.....They will still have to answer "what if's" for example. Like, what if my driver hits debris and cuts a tire on lap 12? Can I come in for a new set, or am I effectively out of the race now...(Lots of hypotheticals that are going to, if they haven't already, spur additional controversy and disagreement from the teams)

BriDrive
If you cut a tire you have to replace it w/ a worn tire from practice

Another interesting rule is that if you don't finish 90% of the current race, you aren't penalized for an engine change for the next race!!! So theoretically all the people 9th place and up can just drop out of the race at the 89% mark if they know they aren't gonna score any points...'mysterious' electronic problems...so again..for the poor/slow teams it doesn't save them any money at all because they can use a fresh engine every weekend w/o penalty!

If you cut a tire you have to replace it w/ a worn tire from practice

What if you choose not to practice? Or just coast through the session?

Now you have a relatively unworn set of tires with which you can swap in.

I wonder which teams will try and bend the rules as much as they can.


- andrew

from what i read a few days ago, a team gets 4 sets of tires, 1 for practice, 1 for quali/race, 1 for puncture or flat, and 1 set of extreme weather tires which will onlybe allowed if the F1 directors claim extreme weather conditions. but from what you guys said that might have changed. The whole dropping out w/o penalty thing is still confusing to me, but im sure ill figure it out when the season starts.

I still like the one lap qualifying they started last year, its easier to follow and it not all at once, but one at a time, more organized.

But i still cant wait for the season, i just hope mclaren fares a little better this year than last. having half of the season packed with retirements isnt the best way to win a championship, but im optimistic for them this year.

anyone have all the testing times of the cars for all the tracks used so far? i checked formula1.com but they didnt have anything in the results yet.

and for the tires, what i just said is what is still on formula1.com

Try www.F1racing.net/en look at the right and they have testing times and photos broken down by day and location.
Kevin

What, no MP4:20 jokes yet?

monday the jokes can start i guess, not till anyone sees it. but i cant wait to see it, see how it runs. hopefully itll be a better start than last season

With Toyota's track record he will ast until the team doesn't get a win. They blame their drivers rather then their engineering. Hey look, there goes Salo, McNish, da Matta, Zonta, Panis and Trulli and Ralphie are right behind them.

Very true they should have kept Salo and McNish. How much money can you spend and get crap results. I would think they will start to produce this year.