Unfortunately, none of the Prodrive cars is a tuned WRX. From http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101665:U.K.'s Prodrive wants to sell electric commuter car in U.S.

CHRIS WRIGHT | Automotive News Europe
Posted Date: 1/26/05

LONDON -- British sports car engineering specialist Prodrive has developed an electric commuter vehicle it wants to sell in the United States.

A deal between Prodrive and Commuter Cars Corp. of Spokane, Wash., will see the British company building as many as 100 Tango 600s annually.

The Tango 600, a two-seater in which the passenger sits behind the driver, is powered by two electric motors that can propel the car to a top speed of 118 mph. It has a range of 80 miles. The vehicle is as tall as a conventional car but takes up only half a lane.

Volvo showed a similar-looking vehicle at the Detroit auto show. The 3CC concept has two front seats and room in the back for one adult or two children.

Prodrive of Banbury, England, has completed the first model and is constructing a second.

Commuter Cars is marketing the vehicle as a radical solution to urban traffic congestion. The company says it has several orders.

No decision has been made on where production will be centered.

"We could build the car in the U.K., but it is currently aimed at the North American market although we are not ruling out possibilities for Europe in the future," said Ben Sayer, Prodrive marketing manager.

Prodrive, which has a North American engineering center, provided the necessary engineering to turn Commuter Cars' prototype version of the Tango into a low-volume production vehicle.

The Tango 600 built by Prodrive will sell for $85,000, but the target price of a mass-produced version of the car is less than $20,000.

I believe they announced this in early December.

It's cool that they found someone to produce them. There is a video of one at an autocross on some slicks that is pretty nuts. Their prototype T600 did 0-60 in 4 seconds and ran the 1/4 mile in 12 seconds.

I like Prodrive, and I really like the ideal that commuters would actually drive small cars into the city.. but I just don't see that happening. Too unstylish.. and not practical enough. It's not likely that our road laws are going to change to allow 2 vehicles per lane... and it's not likely that cities are going to redesign their downtown districts to take advantage of narrow parking.

Then there's the sensationalism that will surround the first one of these things that gets T-boned by a Hummer.

http://www.prodrive.com/photolibrary/Tango%5Fin%5Faction%2Ejpg

For 20k you can get a Prius, which gets great mileage, will go way more than 80 miles at a time, and can hold a family of 4 plus some luggage. I think the niche for electrics is really limited to people who ONLY drive short distances in the city, and many of those people do not need a car at all.

in fargo we have alot of the GEM cars. so many that the city has allowed them to be driven on most public streets.

they are very popular w/the golfers as they can hop on the GEm and go straight to the course and home again in the same vehicle.

it would be cool to see some performance electric cars out there.

http://www.skytran.net/12KiddyTrain/Images-KiddyTrain/gem%20car2.JPG

never mind.

I live in Spokane and they brought this tango to an AutoX. It is Tiny, but pretty cool looking. The thing could haul ass too!

They almost tipped it taking an extra sharp turn over a downgrade, but the thing is much more stable then it looks, as most of the weight is in the bottom.

Thats cool they got prodrive to sell it. It's a pretty cool little thing. Think more like a motorcycle then a car though -- or a really bitchen golf cart.

(It got respectable AutoX times, if anyone cares)
-Allen

What happened to the photo from the Spokane drag strip in the thread? It was a good photo.

-Allen

Another problem with an idea like this is that battery technology is improving at a very slow pace. Even if it handles better than other electric cars before it - it still has almost exactly the same batteries that an electric car 20 years ago had. Would you buy a normal car that featured an engine / mpg of a car from 20 years ago - or longer?

Another problem with an idea like this is that battery technology is improving at a very slow pace. Even if it handles better than other electric cars before it - it still has almost exactly the same batteries that an electric car 20 years ago had. Would you buy a normal car that featured an engine / mpg of a car from 20 years ago - or longer?

the answer is probably no for most, but when you're talking about battery technology and not a 1o mpg difference in fuel economy, the question isn't as relevant to begin with.

I could see forward thinking cities having these in their downtowns to provide transportation for those that use public transit to get to work. Other than that, I think the market will be very limited. With expected production runs of as many as 100 indicates that their goals are realistic.

T600 future of WRC ?? :rolleyes: :p

Would you buy a normal car that featured an engine / mpg of a car from 20 years ago - or longer?If by "normal car" you mean a production car, then sure, I'd buy a 1985 Porsche 959 in a heartbeat (if I were rich). ICE technology hasn't advanced as far or as fast as you think it has.

']If by "normal car" you mean a production car, then sure, I'd buy a 1985 Porsche 959 in a heartbeat (if I were rich). ICE technology hasn't advanced as far or as fast as you think it has.

The actual engine hasn't but the engine management has. Look at a 1985 959 - it was producing 450bhp - without Federalization. Canepa retrofitted the car, Federalized it and now it produces nearly 600bhp. That's the progress I'm referring to. I think the electric car system - batteries to electric motor is too simple to have any large efficiency gains given that battery technology is mostly the same and I don't believe electric motors have changed much either.
Canepa Porsche 959 article (http://www.canepa.com/SportsLuxury/Showroom/959ArticleAutoweek.asp)

Another problem with an idea like this is that battery technology is improving at a very slow pace. Even if it handles better than other electric cars before it - it still has almost exactly the same batteries that an electric car 20 years ago had. Would you buy a normal car that featured an engine / mpg of a car from 20 years ago - or longer?

Yeah... and they're still using those round wheels, too. Haven't those been around (pun intended) for a while? I'm not buying a car that still uses round wheels.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

If a technology is the best solution available, even if the technology hasn't changed for many years, yes, I'd buy it.

This would be a good car for Zipcar.com to start using!

Look at a 1985 959 - it was producing 450bhp - without Federalization. Canepa retrofitted the car, Federalized it and now it produces nearly 600bhp. That's the progress I'm referring to. I think the electric car system - batteries to electric motor is too simple to have any large efficiency gains given that battery technology is mostly the same and I don't believe electric motors have changed much either.I'm sure that it's also possible to "refit" a brand new 2005 Porsche 911 Turbo such that its horsepower is raised from 415 to 600 and that its emissions meet 1985 EPA standards. I guess I don't see the "progress." The Prodrive electric car seems to rely on cheap lead acid batteries. There are other types of batteries that provide far higher power density with much lower weight.

On a Prodrive-related note, they issued a press release yesterday (see http://www.prodrive.com/news.asp?ID=141&M=10&IID=&S=):Prodrive reorganises its US performance market operations
25 Jan 2005

International motorsport and automotive technology business, Prodrive, has reorganised its operations in California, USA, to make its range of aftermarket accessories available to a wider audience of performance enthusiasts.

The reorganisation involves the creation of a new business, which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Prodrive’s Michigan-based operations. The new business will replace Prodrive’s two-year partnership with Aria Group, which served to launch Prodrive’s U.S. based aftermarket initiative and assessed the market potential for the Prodrive brand and its products in the U.S. performance market.

Prodrive managing director, Andy Tempest said: “The creation of the new business demonstrates our commitment to the US market where we have seen a large demand for vehicle personalisation products over the last couple of years. We believe that our unique position as the world’s leading motorsport company combined with our product offering will be welcomed by the market. Under the new organisation we will be able to be much closer to our customers and give them the products and service they expect from Prodrive.”

The new company will concentrate on the development and sale of aftermarket performance parts such as wheels, suspension systems and engine modifications. Initially focus will be on the development and supply of parts for Subaru cars, as a result of the long-standing relationship with the Japanese manufacturer through the running of its World Rally programme.

Prodrive’s offices will be based in Orange County, California, and will be headed up by general manager, Horacio Antonielli. He has considerable experience in the U.S. performance market having spent 15 years working for Subaru in America, most recently as general manager at one of Subaru’s leading dealerships in California.

Prodrive in the USA can be contacted on 866-797-7766 or found at www.prodrive.com/usa.I wonder how anyone who's "spent the last 15 years working for Subaru in America" could have "considerable experience in the U.S. performance market" given that the performance market for Subarus was miniscule prior to the WRX introduction less than 4 years ago.

Jon, keep in mind that they NEED the weight of the lead battery to keep the center of gravity low in that vehicle. Those batteries are the vehicles primary ballast. Everything else is lightweight / carbon fiber /etc.

-Allen

...I wonder how anyone who's "spent the last 15 years working for Subaru in America" could have "considerable experience in the U.S. performance market" given that the performance market for Subarus was miniscule prior to the WRX introduction less than 4 years ago.

Hey Jon,

Understandable Question.... I've known Horacio for many years and have had quite a few dinners with him and portions of his family. I have the upmost respect for him and wish him the best of luck with his new adventure.

Horacio was one of the primaries of [the late] SPi Motorsports. And was the General Manager for a local Subi dealership for a number of years. [Refusing to name the respective dealership because they are the devil. Except for 2 individuals still working there]

He had an influence on creating/sponsoring a few beautiful cars in 2002 & 2003 like Rob Shaw's WRX as well as Ben Jenning's beast of a WRX. [Ben's car dyno'd w/376bhp with stock internals] - Just ask Unit_91.... Ryan spearheaded the builds on those two, plus others with Horacio's blessing... ALL in the hopes to promote a name and niche in the 'performance market'... The 'Devil' had other beliefs...

There are quite a few fellow Subi owners in Southern California who can attest to Horacio's business knowledge of running a company in a 'performance market'. Not just for Subaru's but for other makes as well.

Didn't mean to seem like I'm standing on a soap box....



FWIW, Horacio's son Dan has worked for Prodrive for a couple of years now. That guy is a walking library of knowledge/magician of Subaru's... What works, what doesn't work, etc... such as... Did you know the dash & center console of an 2004-2005 WRX & STi fits in the 2000-01 RS? [along with the drivetrain of course..] It does, and I've seen it...

Chris.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=688092
The swap is available by a local vendor...

http://www.aerosim-research.com/images/RS_conversion/rs_wrx_engine.jpg

http://www.aerosim-research.com/images/RS_conversion/rs_wrx_driv_interior.jpg

http://www.aerosim-research.com/images/RS_conversion/rs_wrx_driv_dash.jpg

whoa!

I heard Prodrive is already planning to do a "special" of this thing and call it the Wango.
Ted Nugent will do the celebrity endorsements.

That is all.

Woo Hoo, Great start....

I don't think strictly electrics will catch on in the US simply because of distances we drive...

']I'm sure that it's also possible to "refit" a brand new 2005 Porsche 911 Turbo such that its horsepower is raised from 415 to 600 and that its emissions meet 1985 EPA standards. I guess I don't see the "progress." The Prodrive electric car seems to rely on cheap lead acid batteries. There are other types of batteries that provide far higher power density with much lower weight.

On a Prodrive-related note, they issued a press release yesterday (see http://www.prodrive.com/news.asp?ID=141&M=10&IID=&S=):I wonder how anyone who's "spent the last 15 years working for Subaru in America" could have "considerable experience in the U.S. performance market" given that the performance market for Subarus was miniscule prior to the WRX introduction less than 4 years ago.

have you forgotten about the turbo legacy sport sedan that was sold in the us in 91?

that would make it 14 years ago now. and we had the SVX too. then the GT legacy and then the RS in 98. i would say there has been plenty of time to develop considerable experience in performance subarus in the U.S.

I know this has been shown before, but I can't help but think that FHI had a hand in this design.

Look at that grille, and logo. The shape of the grille is a splitting image of that found on the Legacy and Outback. Replace the oval P2 logo with the oval Subaru logo, and BINGO! Could this be what we can expect the '08 Impreza's front to look like?

I bet FHI "floated" this concept—promoting it as a ProDrive effort—when in fact they have been testing the waters for a possible future Impreza front end styling. The styling of the grille is just too similar current and future Legacys and Outbacks to be a mere coincedence.

http://www.subdriven.com/news/publish/Subaru_News/article_443.shtml

Bob

I don't think strictly electrics will catch on in the US simply because of distances we drive...
I agree. 80 mile range is just not far enough.

Another problem with an idea like this is that battery technology is improving at a very slow pace. Even if it handles better than other electric cars before it - it still has almost exactly the same batteries that an electric car 20 years ago had. Would you buy a normal car that featured an engine / mpg of a car from 20 years ago - or longer?

The proper analog to the battery is the fuel tank. And the only difference between a 20 year old fuel tank and a new one is the material used. Newer batteries (Li-Polymer, Li-ion, NiMH, etc.) charge faster, weigh less and have higher charge capacity than 20-year-old battery tech (lead-acid or Ni-Cd). The development really seems to be picking up speed, too. There is a lot of money being spent on battery tech lately. For some reason though, Prodrive has elected to use lead-acid... Probably to do with number of charge cycles.

With a 120 mile range I could use an EV as a daily commuter. Otoh, at about 24 cents / kwh and climbing where I live, maybe electric isn't such a great
idea...

Doh! Pwn3d by the ancient thread bump...

I live in Spokane WA and have actually seen the Tango in person at an AutoX course, Autocrossing.

First: That thing is weird looking because it is tall like a car, but narrow like a motorcycle. It looks like it will tip over, but they say that all the batteries are in the bottom so it has a low center of gravity.

Second: That thing is FAST. It just takes off like a bat out of hell from 0 mph.

Third: I have a picture but I dont' know how to attach it, and I have no where to host it. (It is a pic of it drag racing at the Spokane raceway park.)

How cool that they partnered with Prodrive.

-Allen

Third: I have a picture but I dont' know how to attach it, and I have no where to host it. (It is a pic of it drag racing at the Spokane raceway park.)Click on the image for the hi-res version:
http://www.prodrive.com/news/tango.jpg (http://www.prodrive.com/photolibrary/Tango%5Fin%5Faction.jpg)

I agree. 80 mile range is just not far enough.

For some people it won't be, but for the average commuter in the US, it's more than enough since the average round-trip commute is only about 30 miles. If you've got a greater than 80 mile round trip commute, you may be better off moving closer to where you work anyway.

Yes Jon, thats the Pic =D

-Allen

I remember at Autocross they damn near tipped the thing over turning over a slight crest. That said it seemed remarkably stable for the gymnastics they were putting it through.

-Allen

DAMNIT! I thought this thread was related to the Prodrive P2!! SUCH disappointment.... :mad:

DAMNIT! I thought this thread was related to the Prodrive P2!! SUCH disappointment.... :mad:


Yeah +1 .. at least it is a foot in the door

Please tell me where I can get a Prius (not used) for 20k :)

For 20k you can get a Prius, which gets great mileage, will go way more than 80 miles at a time, and can hold a family of 4 plus some luggage. I think the niche for electrics is really limited to people who ONLY drive short distances in the city, and many of those people do not need a car at all.

If it's good enough for Clooney, it's good enough for everyone else:

http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/articles/05/aug/clooney_tango_2.jpg
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/articles/05/aug/clooney_tango3.jpg

George Clooney Tangos with Oil Independence
Source: Commuter Cars Corporation
(8/11/2005)

George Clooney grins as he stands beside his new Tango.George Clooney grins as he stands beside one of the coolest cars in Hollywood. His new ride is quick, swift, agile, and it doesn't burn a drop of gasoline. Clooney's high-performance Tango 600 is electric, and it's the very first car of its kind to be sold by Commuter Cars of Spokane, Washington.

Clooney advocates intelligent transportation choices as an alternative to securing foreign oil interests through military action. During one interview he even suggested that we, "Don't kill people. Drive electric cars." -- a position often ridiculed by those ignorant of today's emerging electric vehicle.

Clooney may have the last laugh as he proves the viability of electric cars in a car that can go from 0 to 60 mph in 4 seconds and do a quarter mile in 12 seconds... beating most sports cars in the process. Top speed is around 150 mph if anyone can find a place to go that fast!

Speed needs control, and the patented vehicle design uses the battery pack as ballast to maintain excellent cornering stability despite the narrow width, and a race-certified roll cage protects the driver and passenger in the event of a mishap.

According to Commuter Cars Corporation, the Tango "... is a glimpse into the future of commuting. Lane doubling, lane splitting, and perpendicular parking will become commonplace."

Getting back to the more typical drive to work, consumers may be interested in the vehicle's range. Although the Tango can be built with a fuel cell or internal combustion engine, conventional lead-acid batteries work well for most commuters. Its 80-mile range is nearly 4 times the distance the average commuter travels per day. With high-tech batteries, range could exceed 150 miles per charge.

To minimize any day time inconvenience, the Tango's on-board charger is designed to charge to 80% in under 10 minutes if 400 amp AC service is available at a nearby charging station. This gives approximately 50 additional miles of range per quick-charge. Typically one would just plug in each night to a dryer outlet and get a complete charge in less than 3 hours and be ready for work the next morning.

Commuter Cars Corporation is run by Tango designer Rick Woodbury and his son Bryan. Their interest in alternative personal transportation goes back to the 1970s when Rick was researching hydrogen power. In the late 1990s, Rick and Bryan realized that the heavy weight of the hydrogen fuel cell and hydride storage could be used to give a significant stability advantage to a small narrow vehicle, allowing a single design to tackle the twin problems of pollution and congestion.

Over the next five years, the Woodburys worked on their design while they waited for fuel cell technology to catch up with their vision. "Then we realized that modern lead acid battery technology could deliver four times the range of the average daily commute. That gave us the level of performance we required to build a practical commuter vehicle," explains Rick. "We built our first running prototype in 1998 and we've been refining the design ever since."

A deal between automotive technology specialist Prodrive and Commuter Cars Corporation (CCC) of Spokane, Washington will see the Banbury-based company managing the construction of up to 100 radical new electric commuter vehicles every year. Prodrive has worked with CCC to take the Tango vehicle design from its prototype form and engineer it for efficient low volume production. It will use its extensive automotive technology and motorsport construction experience to manage the production of the Tango from its site in Kenilworth, Warwickshire, UK.

Commuter Cars Corporation has chosen a route to production as radical as its vehicle design. Rather than going to the risk and expense of designing, tooling and testing for high volume production straight away, it chose to enter the market with a low-volume, high performance version of the vehicle built using motorsport technologies. Sales of the Tango 600 will be used to support the ongoing development of lower cost mass-produced versions of the car.

"Prodrive is one very few organizations worldwide that could actually do what we have done with the Tango," says Geoff Bye, Prodrive project manager for the CCC project. "In less than three months we've been able to take the prototype vehicle, make over 100 engineering changes to ensure it is suitable for low volume manufacture, and make use of both racing car and passenger vehicle manufacturing capabilities to put it into production."

Cheers to George Clooney for driving electric and to Commuter Cars and Prodrive for building the Tango T600 - an electric muscle car destined to shake up the establishment.

http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/display.asp?dismode=article&artid=168

If it's good enough for Clooney, it's good enough for everyone else:The $108,000 list price might make some people think twice.

']Click on the image for the hi-res version:
http://www.prodrive.com/news/tango.jpg (http://www.prodrive.com/photolibrary/Tango%5Fin%5Faction.jpg)
What an ego bomb if you got schooled by one at the local dragstrip? :lol:

Tri-spokes for real? And are those rodeo taillights? Also I would NOT want to ride in the back of that thing. It is really cool though and if they could make a slower one for ~$15k I think they would sell well.

It's a good thing Prodrive jumped in there, the old design was awful.

http://www.commutercars.com/gallery.html