Latest news on the TUNER...

http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000038

Nice... ECUTek for the masses. I never understood why ECUTek only sell their editing software to "tuners" for billions of dollars. The StreetTUNER is going to hurt their sales when it actually becomes available in 6 years. :p

Hopefully it will drive the price of the AccessPort down. In 6 years of course.

Oh, well I used to be excited by that. I am going to ECUtek route now, I had a few troubles with cobb.

heres the thing. It says that the pro tuner can make maps that regular AP users can DL and use. If you have the street tuner, you cant give home made maps to regular AP users. I wonder how much money tuners are going to charge for tuning the AP. Any estimates?

holy crap. the accesstuner is still in development? :lol:

Looks promising. I own an AP. I may upgrade. . .but no hurry. I rather wait till its been out for awhile..Ill prob do some sway bars / springs in realtime with the money. . .DONE! not waiting and waiting.

yep, so looks like it's coming out :lol:

Cool...I'll have to keep an eye on that thread.

so the StreetTUNER and AccessTuner are the same thing?

Im beginning to think access tuner wont come out for ANOTHER year. It was already suppose to be out. Whats the deal cobb?

heres the thing. It says that the pro tuner can make maps that regular AP users can DL and use. If you have the street tuner, you cant give home made maps to regular AP users. I wonder how much money tuners are going to charge for tuning the AP. Any estimates?Before the StreetTuner release notes came out, I believe you were correct; the StreetTuner wouldn't allow users to share maps according to earlier Cobb statements. But according to the release notes, this is no longer true.

From the StreetTUNER Release Notes (http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000038) first post:
For StreetTUNER users, a special StreetTUNER map file format has been created to allow any StreetTUNER user to share their map files with fellow StreetTUNER users. However, non-StreetTUNER users cannot load StreetTUNER maps on their AccessPORT and StreetTUNER users cannot load non-StreetTUNER maps.I think the biggest advantages of Pro over Street now are that the Pro can make maps for AP users (no StreetTuner required, maybe not even AP, just reflash like Ecutek?) and access to more tuning features (additional ECU functions and tables).

So if a ProTuner user releases a map, StreetTuner owners CANNOT use it, the ones who paid a lot more than the regular AP users, who can.. uhmm.. yeah.........

So you can de-marry StreetTuner from the AccessPort module and THEN run a ProTuner's map...but then why did you buy StreetTuner in the first place?

This is all blah blah blah til the dang thing ships anyway...

So if a ProTuner user releases a map, StreetTuner owners CANNOT use it, the ones who paid a lot more than the regular AP users, who can.. uhmm.. yeah.........I agree, that wouldn't make very much sense.

I thought about editing that last sentence out of the quote I used because someone might think that. I'm guessing that Trey just wasn't clear enough there.

My guess is that the ProTuner will be able to generate maps for the AP and StreetTuner. Cobb just doesn't want AP users to be able to benefit from the inexpensive (relative to ProTuner) StreetTuner without actually purchasing the StreetTuner.

I don't see a reason why they would prevent StreetTuners from being able to use maps created by ProTuners.

Fogdor's right. There's no point in owning the StreetTuner if you're going to run a map made by a ProTuner. But I'm sure StreetTuners will want to make use of maps made by ProTuners and make their own tweaks.

ProTuners will just end up publishing maps for both AP's and ST's.

Sorry for not being more clear, we were focused more on introducing the StreetTUNER features not the ProTUNER so we sort of overlooked some very good questions.

Yes, the ProTUNER software allows professional tuners the ability to publish both standard AP maps and StreetTUNER maps. When you go to save the map file, you just pull down the file type option and select what you want. That's it.

Our goal is to keep the StreetTUNER format open to the community.

The ProTUNER will give more in-depth access to the maps. Both TUNERs also give the user the ability to tune major maps and adjustments in REAL TIME. Those that have actually tuned these ECUs can probably understand how big of a deal that is. The disadvantage to tuning "off-line" and reflashing a new map everytime you make a change isn't so much the fact that you're using up the life of the ECU's memory but the actual TIME involved. Some of the newer ECUs can take 10+ minutes between reflashes, even if you change one value. Trying to fine tune a car, calibrate the MAF sensor for a new intake, or even dialing in an injector size can take quite a bit of time if you've had no prior experience. With the REAL TIME tuning you can make as many adjustments you want as quickly as you need. For tuners, that's the big difference between the AccessECU technology and anything else.

Sorry its taken so long to bring to market. Hopefully it'll be understood that it wasn't for lack of effort.

Cheers,
Trey

better place your order now so that you can get it before the '06 comes around

<sticky>

Here's hoping (just a vague hope, ya know, that it does what it's supposed to, allows sharable maps, and maybe comes out sometime soon ...) ... It would certainly be a useful tool ... :D

Trey, how much longer before FIS in Dallas has the tuner?

I could swear we had THIS THREAD (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=709432) 2 days ago ;)

Trey, will we be able to use other turbos? I'm really aching for a VF22!

The ProTUNER will give more in-depth access to the maps.

What does this mean? Do you mean broader access to different types of maps? "In depth" implys greater access within a map (i.e. deeper access).

:D Trey, will we be able to use other turbos? I'm really aching for a VF22!

I'm obviously not Trey, but it is my understanding that the Tuner will be very similar, if not pretty much duplicating the functionality of the UTEC, thus allowing for any type turbo, and supporting mod set-up you like ...

So if I bought StreetTUNER and took it to my local tuner would he have enough control over the ECU that he could give me a custom tune comparable to a ECUTEK reflash? Even if he doesn't have a ProTUNER license?

By "in-depth" I mean a larger number of maps to be adjusted. For instance the ProTUNER for the WRX will be able to adjust not only the Main Ignition and Knock Correction maps but also things like Ignition Idle maps, multiple Coolant Temp Ignition correct maps, the Intake Air Temp Ignition correction map, the Load Point that the IAT correction map becomes active, the Learning for Knock Conditions, the Advance Multiplier Reset Value, the default adjustment values, how knock is learned according to RPM/Load, etc. All those mentioned deal just with Ignition related mapping. There are tons more for fuel, boost, various functions like idle, radiator fan logic, individual sensor calibrations, limiters, etc etc...

Our focus with the TUNER software has been to structure it like an engine management software rather than an editing software. This means Fuel related maps are grouped together, as are Ignition, boost, etc. Hopefully this will mean tuners use to dealing with aftermarket engine management systems should adapt well to this software. We'll have to see...

We hope to get beta versions of the ProTUNER to shops like FIS around the same time the StreetTUNER launches. It's built off the same core software, so it's primarily just adding in the enhanced capabilities and additional maps. Even if we have to get what amounts to the StreetTUNER with the added ability to save standard AP maps this is something we can do immediately as it's already been programmed and tested.

As for other turbos, with the StreetTUNER you should be able to tune for any turbo within reason (ie: nearly all bolt on setups). You have access to the major turbo control related maps. You simply set your Target Boost values, dial in what WG Duty Cycle is required to achieve those targets and then fine tune your Turbo Dynamics to improve response and stability. All that can be done REAL TIME while you drive so it can all be done relatively quickly. You can use the Dashboard and Logging to see what WG Duty Cycle values the ECU is using versus what you have in your WG Duty map to see what direction you should be going. Again, doing this in Real Time significantly reduces the time it'll take to get to your goals. Once you're done, just save that file and share it with others that may have a similar setup.

Regards,
Trey

nice and nice.

i asked this on wrxforums, but i didnt get any response soooo....

couple questions-

what is calculated load based off of? what is used to calculate it?

is the fuel map an OLF-only map?

is the ignition timing map an OLF-only map?

are there ways to change the CLF maps?

when you adjust the injectors and/or the MAF ID, does it automatically change underlying multipliers in the fuel map? or will i have to change the AFR values...ie. its my understanding that the AFR value in the cell is just calculated as:

AFR = A * Am / F * Fm

where:

A = amount of air
Am = multiplier for MAF ID change
F = amount of fuel
Fm = multiplier for injectors

such that when i make a change in the MAF ID or the injector size, the Am and Fm are automatically changed. like if i had 12.6 in a cell in the fuel map in stock mode, if i upgraded the injectors, that same cell would still be 12.6 and should inject enough fuel for that amount of air to still end up with 12.6 in the end.

sorry if that sounds confusing, im just trying to understand how this works.

thanks in advance.

It's built off the same core software, so it's primarily just adding in the enhanced capabilities and additional maps.

Regards,
Trey

Is this core software completely new to the market or is it a modified version of Techtom? Is it DOS based?

Will there be any parameters to adjust/fix throttle-by-wire latencies like the competition claims?

so theoretically what is the biggest turbo for a daily driver you could put on a wrx(with 2.0l)? need to start plannin and saving...

happasaiyan - answered your questions in our forum.

CMJ - completely new software. It's Windows based. Everything was written from scratch in C++ and multi-threaded. We didn't take the easy route and use MFC or .NET, it's all pure C++ though we did use some standard Windows controls to keep the software looking like a Windows app.
I saw Techtom's Mighty Mapper about 6 years ago when I helped someone doing FD3S ECUs. Pretty neat stuff but no, this is definitely nothing like it.

legav05 - We adjust this but I never took the time to make it a Real Time adjustment thus is was left out of StreetTUNER. It will be in ProTUNER. I will look at possibly adding those features in for the StreetTUNER but I can't guarantee it'll make it into the release. I don't want to get in a mode of trying to push too much in before the release and potentially delaying the launch. It will be relatively easy for us to push out updates as they are needed.

Cheers,
Trey

happasaiyan - answered your questions in our forum.


yep, i saw, thanks!

As for other turbos, with the StreetTUNER you should be able to tune for any turbo within reason (ie: nearly all bolt on setups). You have access to the major turbo control related maps. You simply set your Target Boost values, dial in what WG Duty Cycle is required to achieve those targets and then fine tune your Turbo Dynamics to improve response and stability. All that can be done REAL TIME while you drive so it can all be done relatively quickly. You can use the Dashboard and Logging to see what WG Duty Cycle values the ECU is using versus what you have in your WG Duty map to see what direction you should be going. Again, doing this in Real Time significantly reduces the time it'll take to get to your goals. Once you're done, just save that file and share it with others that may have a similar setup.


What exactly does this mean??? Can you run an external WG venting to atmosphere? External WG venting to DP? Can you run a Garret turbo rotated mount setup??? Twin scroll setup like a VF37? Twin scroll setup like the GT32 GPMoto or PDX Tuning kit??? The word "nearly" makes it sound as though you CANNOT run some sort of turbo. Which sort is it?

happasaiyan - answered your questions in our forum.

CMJ - completely new software. It's Windows based. Everything was written from scratch in C++ and multi-threaded. We didn't take the easy route and use MFC or .NET, it's all pure C++ though we did use some standard Windows controls to keep the software looking like a Windows app.
I saw Techtom's Mighty Mapper about 6 years ago when I helped someone doing FD3S ECUs. Pretty neat stuff but no, this is definitely nothing like it.

legav05 - We adjust this but I never took the time to make it a Real Time adjustment thus is was left out of StreetTUNER. It will be in ProTUNER. I will look at possibly adding those features in for the StreetTUNER but I can't guarantee it'll make it into the release. I don't want to get in a mode of trying to push too much in before the release and potentially delaying the launch. It will be relatively easy for us to push out updates as they are needed.

Cheers,
Trey

Good info.

Question about reflashing. If Windows crashes during a reflash what are the consequences?

What exactly does this mean??? Can you run an external WG venting to atmosphere? External WG venting to DP? Can you run a Garret turbo rotated mount setup??? Twin scroll setup like a VF37? Twin scroll setup like the GT32 GPMoto or PDX Tuning kit??? The word "nearly" makes it sound as though you CANNOT run some sort of turbo. Which sort is it?
if i could venture a guess...it would be that you can run any turbo that still has the MAF connected.

either that, or the SBC cant control stupid amounts of boost, so an aftermarket bc is required.

if i could venture a guess...it would be that you can run any turbo that still has the MAF connected.

either that, or the SBC cant control stupid amounts of boost, so an aftermarket bc is required.
It was kinda the latter. Trey answered the question on the Cobb Forum. Basically, you can run any turbo, but you need an aftermarket boost controller if you aren't using the factory boost selenoid. I would imagine you can target any amount of boost with the AT if you are still using the factory boost selenoid, but I didn't ask specifically.

Good info.

Question about reflashing. If Windows crashes during a reflash what are the consequences?




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
M$... :devil:

CMJ - We don't flash the ECU directly from the Windows software. I can imagine though that if Windows did crash during a reflash, it could render the ECU inoperable. Depends on exactly when in the reflash process the computer crashed. Again, we don't use Windows to reflash the ECU. We use the AccessPORT hardware to handle the reflash. Our software saves the map and loads it onto the AccessPORT.

The current AccessPORT firmware was written in assembly and doesn't use DOS, Windows, or any other Microsoft products. ;)

If Windows crashes while tuning the car in Real Time, then the last valid communication will remain on the ECU. If the crash occured during transmission, it will be rejected because the communication checksums won't be valid.

When you restart the computer and reload the software, it can download where you left off from the ECU. You can then save your work and continue on.

Regards,
Trey

heres the thing. It says that the pro tuner can make maps that regular AP users can DL and use. If you have the street tuner, you cant give home made maps to regular AP users. I wonder how much money tuners are going to charge for tuning the AP. Any estimates?


....whatever they charge for dyno time I guess....

CMJ - We don't flash the ECU directly from the Windows software. I can imagine though that if Windows did crash during a reflash, it could render the ECU inoperable. Depends on exactly when in the reflash process the computer crashed. Again, we don't use Windows to reflash the ECU. We use the AccessPORT hardware to handle the reflash. Our software saves the map and loads it onto the AccessPORT.

The current AccessPORT firmware was written in assembly and doesn't use DOS, Windows, or any other Microsoft products. ;)

If Windows crashes while tuning the car in Real Time, then the last valid communication will remain on the ECU. If the crash occured during transmission, it will be rejected because the communication checksums won't be valid.

When you restart the computer and reload the software, it can download where you left off from the ECU. You can then save your work and continue on.

Regards,
Trey


Sooooooo Is our request, made back last year when the AP became available for the STI, going to be fulfilled ???? for we the MAC OS X users.


thanks

I know at FIS, the local shop that took over Cobb's business here in the DFW area they charge $150/hr for dyno tuning.

I figured they would know better than to rely on windows stability when flashing an ecu, good to hear nonetheless.

The current AccessPORT firmware was written in assembly
im sorry. ;)

im sorry. ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol: ... All in all, I am really looking forward to the release of this product ... What can I say, I'm a glutton for punishment ... It should open up alot of different paths for current and future AP users though, and that's never a bad thing ... Well, then again, sometimes it is ... :D

CMJ - We don't flash the ECU directly from the Windows software. I can imagine though that if Windows did crash during a reflash, it could render the ECU inoperable. Depends on exactly when in the reflash process the computer crashed. Again, we don't use Windows to reflash the ECU. We use the AccessPORT hardware to handle the reflash. Our software saves the map and loads it onto the AccessPORT.

The current AccessPORT firmware was written in assembly and doesn't use DOS, Windows, or any other Microsoft products. ;)

If Windows crashes while tuning the car in Real Time, then the last valid communication will remain on the ECU. If the crash occured during transmission, it will be rejected because the communication checksums won't be valid.

When you restart the computer and reload the software, it can download where you left off from the ECU. You can then save your work and continue on.

Regards,
TreyTrey, I think ya might wanna check this thread out and set things these guys straight.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699875&page=19&pp=25

Trey's already posted several times in that thread. It's a good read. I'm only 60% through it so far.

Trey's already posted several times in that thread. It's a good read. I'm only 60% through it so far.
My bad....I haven't read it in a little while.....it's very long but thanks for bringing it to my attention.

For those haven't experienced an Ecutek tune, let me assure you the Real Time capacity is *HUGE*.

Trey, I can't wait for the release. Have checked the software on Windows 98 and ME? If you need somebody to, let me know ;)

Siegel

question for trey-

will we be able to upgrade from a streetTuner to a proTuner?

question for trey-

will we be able to upgrade from a streetTuner to a proTuner?


good question!

so, do i need a laptop or pda to do realtime tuning in the car or can it all be handled by the accessport?

you need a laptop.