Yes, I have searched around, so don't yell at me for not searching, please just answer my questions :)

I know very little about EM. I am planning on running the following setup...

1. Catless UP
2. vf22 or vf30 turbo (what do you think?)
3. Catless bellmouth DP (3")
4. 3" exhaust the rest of the way, probably catless
5. FMIC w/ BOV of course
6. Depending on my turbo, either pinks or 650 (or larger) cc injectors. Again, what do you think?
7. If I get larger than 550 cc, a Walbro fuel pump.

Now, keeping in mind that I know nothing about engine management, what would be the best EM for me? I guess it boils down to UTEC or EcuTek since AP won't support me here.
Which would be easier for me? I live in the boondocks in PA, no where near any tuners, so keep that in mind as well. Anything I do I'm going to have to do by myself, unless you guys want to take a road trip.
Thanks for your patience and help.
Caleb

Also, is there anything else I need to throw in that setup? Keep in mind the word "need", I'm on a budget.

Well... If you aren't near any tuners, EcuTek is not an option. So only the UTEC and Ap are left. As of right now, only the UTEC will support what you want. Also, as of Feb 1st, COBB says that the Streettuner (Tuner for the Accessport), will definately be released in the 1st quarter of this year (exact dates will be available soon). So if you want to wait a month of 2, the Accessport is still an option.

Also... You said you no almost nothing about EM. Is that the same for tuning?
Supposing so....There is a whole lot to tuning EM... It's not just plug and play (for the most part). I would suggest reading a few books on the subject and also read the threads here and also http://www.wrxhackers.com/

A whole lot can go wrong in the tuning process if you don't know what your'e doing, so be carefull.


Good luck,
Adam

Thank you very much, Adam. Do you think the add-on for the AP will support what I have?

The AP addon will alloow you to do what you need, but the question remains - can you tune the car safely yourself? If not, neither the UTEC nor StreeTuner will be of much value.

Yes... The Streettuner(?), or "Ap add-on", will support what you want (as far as I understand), and probably do it a whole lot easier than the UTEC for all the tuning noobs. From the info that I can gather on the Streettuner, it looks like it's as easy as tuning gets.

Check out http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000038 for all the available info on the Street tuner.

Also Caleb, I suggest reading "How to Tune & Modify Engine Management Systems" by Jeff Hartman. It is a very thorough and easy to follow book for beginners.

Adam

If I were to read Hartman's book about tuning thoroughly, would it be safe for me to tune a UTEC myself? I mean, that way I could do anything to my car my heart desired, even though I probably wouldn't go further than what I said earlier, maybe just a larger turbo and injectors.
I read the Cobb statement about the street tuner and still don't really understand what it's going to do other than make it impossible to download regular AP base maps. If I purchased the AP, then the street tuner, would I be as versatile as I would be with a UTEC?
Thanks again, Caleb

If I were to read Hartman's book about tuning thoroughly, would it be safe for me to tune a UTEC myself? I mean, that way I could do anything to my car my heart desired, even though I probably wouldn't go further than what I said earlier, maybe just a larger turbo and injectors.
I read the Cobb statement about the street tuner and still don't really understand what it's going to do other than make it impossible to download regular AP base maps. If I purchased the AP, then the street tuner, would I be as versatile as I would be with a UTEC?
Thanks again, Caleb

Caleb,

For your first question, it really depends on how well you understand it, how comfortable you are with altering very sensitive parameters, and if you are doubting yourself while tuning. Let me put it this way: First, I have an accessport, not a UTEC. I have never "tuned" an engine. I have read Hartman's book, several times, and understand all of it, or grasp it atleast. If I had a UTEC, I would have no reservation at all about getting in there and tuning it myself. Also, I plan on getting the Streettuner upgrade as soon as it's not on "backorder" or whatever, it might not even be hard to find vendors that stock tons of them... Who knows? I also plan on tuning myself with the tuner.

Really the best way to look at it, and it is hard no doubt, is if you do pop your motor, you'll know what's bad and what's good for the engine.

About being able to go further with the UTEC.... Not really. The Streettuner supposedly, from what I understood from the release notes and product preview, is just as powerful as a UTEC, if not more powerful (ie. not a piggy-back.). It probably will really boil down to personal preference in all reality.

As far as the tuner making it impossible to download "regular AP Base Maps", your'e right, it will. But it will be able to download "a special Streettuner map file format", as Trey Cobb puts it. The new format allows streettuner users to share maps with other steettuner users. All that is about is to make it so "regular" AP users can't use Streettuner maps.

Hope this helped, good night,
Adam

Ok, well in that case, I'll probably get an AP and the streettuner with it. That way I'll be able to do whatever I want to my car with less chance of screwing something up... I think? You wouldn't happen to know what the price of the street tuner will be would you?

It's like a ~$450 add-on.

Ouch. College student here:(

Man, I understand. The COBB route will be a bit more expensive (~$50 more). The reason I am recommending it is because it sounds much easier for a beginer to tune (safely and confidently).

And I completely understand where your'e at with the whole confussion on which unit to go with... EM is one of the most confusing, along with suspension, aftermarket parts choice.

Adam

Yeah, I think I am going to go with the cobb when I get the money. It sounds sort of easy and it sounds like I'll be able to do pretty much what I want. Seeing as how I'm not planning on going totally nuts with power, I think it should see me through. Thanks again for all the info.
Caleb

Ouch. College student here:(

Wow. You're in college, and you get to drive a 20+K car. Waaaah. :p

Enjoy the car stock, keep it safe, study, and when you get out,
think about mods if you like.

Disposable income now is better spent on books, beer and babes.

If you have a few G's burning a hole in your pocket, open a Roth IRA.

Seriously.

- b

What's a Roth IRA?

A very good investment.

That said, if you don't take the wise investment advice, and don't want to learn to tune on your own car, you're going to need to figure out how to get the car to a tuner.... if you are not going to continue to mod the car and want set-and-forget EM Ecutek is the way to go.

EcuTek is great... But there's one problem with his "set-up".

I live in the boondocks in PA, no where near any tuners, so keep that in mind as well. Anything I do I'm going to have to do by myself.

Cabe

I like UTEC because it's been out a while, there's no doubt you can tune with it, and if you did go to a tuner they'd likely have a lot of experience with it rather than learning on your vehicle once ProTUNER and StreetTUNER come out. Plus, you can switch maps easily with a small switch... with the AP you have to plug it back in each time. No map-switching with EcuTek.

I'd slow down on the StreetTUNER if I were you, and give it some time to settle in. It's original release date was over 14 months ago... it's good Cobb waited until he had the kinks worked out, but did he get 'em all? And who knows if he'll release it with support for wideband O2 sensor input, which most tuners will tell you is a must. Cobb says StreetTUNER doesn't have that yet. I'm sure it will eventually. It has to if it's to be taken seriously. BTW, the wideband's an additional investment if you're self-tuning.

You could take your ride to stage 2 Cobb AP or a stage 3 TXS UTEC (along with your FMIC, etc.) and maybe you'd be happy to hold there a while, 'cause there's a whole lot of power there. You'll be blown a way with a stage 3 UTEC if you're at stock now. While you enjoy this level of power for a bit, you could learn more about tuning.

Then -- if you started with an AP -- the whole StreetTUNER / ProTUNER thing would have settled in. Maybe by then you'll have dug into tuning and decided it's better to have a professional do it at least once (IMO it is, then you can tweak if you want to, down the road). If you've gone Cobb, your tuner's going to want to use his own ProTUNER because it's more capable... and your StreetTUNER would have been a big waste of money.

I think someone without any tuning experience would have to be nuts to jump right in to trying to tune to stage 4. It's very possible you could sacrifice your engine to the experiment. Zero horsepower.

Driving on stage 3 without a professional tune means sacrificing some power and some smoothness through the rev range. Driving stage 4 without a tune is reckless. We're not just talking reductions in air intake temperatures and exhaust back pressures, we're muckin' with the compression and seriously increasing the rate of fuel flow. If you don't get the boost, ignition timing, and air / fuel ratio right, it doesn't take too many revolutions to knock your block into oblivion. I prefer the word detonation... it's more descriptive!

If you really want to go stage 4 right away, do it when you have a few days off and have it all set up in advance. Drive to Scranton or wherever to put your new turbo and injectors on, and have an appointment with a tuner right afterward. Then drive back to school with your stage 4 monster all tuned up!

I'm upgrading from stage 3 to a bigger turbo and fuel system in a couple of weeks, having waited 'til a topnotch tuner is coming to town for a dyno- and road-tuning. In the few days between bolt-ons and dyno day, the car will be parked, and when I drive to the dyno to meet him, I'm staying out of boost. If I'm going to take risks, I'd rather do it trying to get top performance out of my ride and not just in the process of upgrading. That's my .02.

EDIT: Here's a thread with experiences from happy and unhappy AP customers... http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699875&page=1&pp=25 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699875&page=1&pp=25)

if you want to be self-sufficient, you NEEEEEED to have a wideband o2 sensor. budget that in first.

to those who think the AT will be easier to tune than the utec, i don't agree. in fact, you've got a lot more load sites to screw up. i appreciate the fact that in 90% of my driving, the unadalterated oem ecu is calling the shots.

in my mind, the utec is like a "super carburator" and "super distributor."

it is "better" than old school carbs in that you have an infinite array of "jet sizes" to choose from, and you can switch them in seconds. you can have different jets at different loads, rpms, etc. but just like carbs, the mixture STAYS WHERE YOU SET IT.

it is similar wrt timing... you can set arbitrary numbers for iginition advance, creating curves that would be totally impossible with a mechanical distributor. but once it is set, the advance STAYS WHERE YOU SET IT.

with the adaptive ecu in control, neither of those things is really set in stone. fuel trims and knock correction have their OWN agendas. sometimes they coincide with what you want to do as a tuner. sometimes they do not.

i love having total MANUAL control over fuel and timing, so for me the utec is a perfect fit. also, having a pre 04 ecu is a good thing, since i don't have to screw around with low TPS crossovers to avoid the open loop fueling delay. my tps xover is set at 60%. i never have hesitation issues.

jm2c
ken

Ka mano,
Thanks, that was a huge help (thanks adam and everyone else too!).
Again to ka mano, what's a wideband 02 sensor and where do I get one? Secondly, I still think I am just going to go big and get everything I mentioned in the original question, but will take your advice and take it somewhere to put it on and drive conservatively. Is there someone in Scranton who could tune a UTEC if I got one with all those mods? What stage would you call that?
Thanks again,
Caleb

I live in the boondocks in PA, no where near any tuners, so keep that in mind as well.


you know TurboXS is in MD right?

What are your goal(s)? Work that out first. Be realistic.

I want my car to perform better than stock?
I want to learn to tune cars, may car?
I have time to learn tuning, I have resources to learn tuning (WB sensor, some dyno time and access)?
Am I a methodical person who enjoys problems solving?
Am I willing to put my car at risk when I tune it (again resources to accept risk)?
Do I want the option of tuning at a later date, but for now I'd like to just drive?
Do I want total control over everything that relates to electronic control of my car? What limits to control are acceptable or unimportant to me?

There are other options to the one's discussed that are cheaper, but offer less of a user base. Answer some of the questions above and we'll know more about you and what tools would be best for you.

in my mind, the utec is like a "super carburator" and "super distributor."I like that... it's not 'in place of' the carburator, it's the carburator returned as superhero!

Cabe:

Here's a link to some WB O2 sensor info.
http://www.alamomotorsports.com/fjo_wideband.html?source=google

How far are you from Gaithersburg, MD? Like Azezial says, there a good UTEC tuner there. ;)

Yeah, if you get your uppipe, exhaust, UTEC (comes with a manual boost controller), larger intercooler (I vote FMIC) and BOV, bigger turbo / fuel system, and a one-off tuning, you're at stage 4. I'd get gauges for boost (not OEM) and EGT, with the warn feature, like Defi, Apex-i, or GReddy.

What are your goal(s)? ...Answer some of the questions above and we'll know more about you and what tools would be best for you.I second that. If you do that, you'll get better advice, for example, on your turbo / fuel injector flow rate questions.

OK, first of all, I'd like my car to perform WAY better than stock. I've driven cars with Cobb stg. II and it's nice but I want more bang than that for sure.
I don't have access to a dyno, but I can solve problems if forced to. Like I said earlier, I'm a college student, although fortunate, I'm not fortunate enough to buy a new engine if I blow this one up. I would like to tune my own car, at least the basics. I definitely want the afore-mentioned setup. I can tune now, I'll just need help from someone who knows what they're doing.
Also, I have an OEM boost gauge (what's wrong with it, I can read it) but I know I'll get an EGT and AFR gauge when the time comes. I am 188.55 miles away from Gaithersburg, MD btw.
BTW, as opposed to the original post, if I get a UTEC, I'll prolly end up going with a vf22 turbo and 850 cc injectors and upgraded fuel pump.

Oh, Gaithersburg is only about 2 hours from my sisters house tho.

Cabe: I understand your steam for maxing out the EJ20 block... I'm the same way. We both need to realize that as we run more boost and burn more fuel and advance the timing we could be getting well out there on the hairy edge!

You can tune now? You'd like to tune? You know very little about EM? I'm getting unclear. What I do hear you saying is that you've got what it takes to learn how to tune and I'm believing you. It's gonna take knowledge and experience, not just with cars but with yourself, knowing your current limits and finding out what happens when you exceed them.

When you talk about tuning your own car, at least the basics, and tuning it yourself with some help from s.o. who knows what they're doing... it sounds turned around to me... IDK, maybe I'm just hearing the words wrong. IMO it's precisely the basics -- ignition timing, A/F ratio, and boost -- that you want to let a pro take care of, and as you learn more, you can make small changes to his maps with road testing, seeing how your tweaks affect performance.

Gauges. You need more accuracy than the stock boost guage affords, and a warning sound as you approach max pressure is really handy for performance driving. I say forget the A/F ratio gauge as the accuracy of the stock sensor is not good enough to pay attention to. When you do start doing your own tuning you'll need to get yourself a WB O2 sensor and you'll wanna address the gauge issue at that time. An EGT gauge with warning should be part of the stage 4 package you're building, so I'd say the time is now for that one, if you're really going for this now.

Turbo. The VF 22 is a great turbo and a good choice. How did you choose it? How does it suit your needs compared to a VF 34 or a PE 1818 or a FP 18g? In what part of the rev range are you looking for your biggest punch?

Injectors. Whoa, big fella! 850s? Tell us your thinking about that. Your VF 22's gonna flow about 490 cfm at 18.0 psi. I'd be looking at STi pinks (~565 ccm) or some 600 ccm injectors, max, or you're gonna idle really rough with that extra gas, mess up your cold starts in those rude Pennsylvania winters, and risk chronic problems with fouled plugs. The high impedance injectors we need to use have a low pulse width (time the injector is open) at idle and even a good tune can't close them enough to avoid this problem when the flow rate of the injector is too high. I've always thought a little rough idling at the intersection was racecar-cool, but... the 850s are too big IMO.

It's cool that your sister's not too far from Gaithersburg. That's the home of Turboxs and you could, of course, get a topnotch UTEC tune there. Unless you're planning to go with used parts, call 'em and ask them to give you a competitive package price for all your parts and a tune. I don't know if you're doing the bolt-ons or having that done, but you could discuss install options with them. They've got quality parts for everything you're looking for and you might get a great package price, IDK. It'd give you s.t. to compare prices to, anyway. (They might even take you on as a project car!?)

Take and post mucho pics when you bust this upgrade, man. Stock to stage 4 will make an interesting story.

Ok, lol, let me set this straight. As of now, I know nothing about tuning, except for what you've told me thus far. However, I'd like to learn to tune, but I will need a TON of help getting started (i.e. a professional doing it for me the first time). How's that?
Ok, now for the guages...
Along with my setup, I'll buy a new boost gauge (1 that measures pounds vs. the stock megapascals, right? and it must have a warning beep). A WB O2 sensor (will this have a warning sound too?) and an EGT gauge with warning too.
Turbo..
I picked the vf22 because it's BIG. Originally I wanted the vf30 but then when I decided against the AP w/streetTuner, I decided to go as big as I could with the vf series (plus they're really cheap). I know it's got a really late spool up time but I'll manage.
Injectors...
Will STi pinks really be enough? Cobb suggests that you use them with the vf 30 for their stg. II.5? Maybe there's a happy medium between 565 and 850 (i thought the pinks were 550?) At any rate, I'll look around for something else.
Now, let's say I'll drive down to Gaithersburg once I get all my "stuff." Should I put it on before I go, wait til I'm there (I can't exactly put all this stuff on in a few hours in a parking lot) or put it on at my sis's house and drive or what? I guess I could put it on here and just drive like 40 mph the whole way and keep it out of boost...
Lastly, how much would UTEC charge to tune my car? And I assume I have to make an appointment?
Thanks again, and yes, this will make an interesting story...

The VF 22 sounds good and like I said you could go with 600cc injectors.

The choice between PSI and kPa on the boost gauge is up to you.

You really ready to get you a WB O2 sensor? If so, here's my recommendation: take a com sci class where you can use tuning as a project for credit, 'cause you got a lot to study to learn how to take advantage of that investment... and you're in school full time, right?

Unless you're a mechanic, props for the ba11s you must have to install all this yourself, esp. the uppipe, the FMIC, and the injectors. Consider getting a Perrin turbo inlet hose to make your turbo install easier. Do you know how to prep a turbo before installation? You planning an oil change after install? Do you know where you want the EGT probe? You got: the tools for this, including any cutting you may need to do to get your front mount in? a good spot to do all this work? a backup plan in case you get into a jam with your bolt-ons?

I guess you could attempt all this at your sis's and -- since you'll have a moderately big turbo / fuel system for the EJ20 -- limp into Gaithersburg for your tune. Heck of a way to test drive this major upgrade though, especially if you're new to wrenching. Think about puttin' on some miles just toolin' around before you hit the road to see how it's all working together.

TurboXS: 301-977-4727

Also...
You need:
turbo timer
short ram intake with K&N filter
BIGGER BRAKES to give you the StopQuick to match your GoFast
sway bar (you wanna rally, auto-x, road race?) and springs
a CEL mod if you take out all the cats

Makes sense:
a CEL code reader (what if you get a CEL between sis's and TXS?)
cooler spark plugs, like #7s
oil catch can
reverse flow hood scoop to go with your FMIC
upgraded tires

Also...
You need:
turbo timer
short ram intake with K&N filter
BIGGER BRAKES to give you the StopQuick to match your GoFast
sway bar (you wanna rally, auto-x, road race?) and springs
a CEL mod if you take out all the cats

Makes sense:
a CEL code reader (what if you get a CEL between sis's and TXS?)
cooler spark plugs, like #7s
oil catch can
reverse flow hood scoop to go with your FMIC
upgraded tires

a lot of this is unneeded.

-you do not need a turbo timer.
-you need some aftermarket intake if you are getting a fmic. shortram or cold air doesnt really matter much.
-bigger brakes arent uber urgent, as the vf22 isnt powerful enough to massively overwhelm the stock brakes.
-sway bar only if you want to start wrenching on the suspension...
-depending on the downpipe you have, you might not need a CEL mod. if you have a godspeed or perrin downpipe, you wont need the CEL mod, as they have mechanical fixes for it.

-a code reader isnt a bad thing to have...but not needed. it might help with the initial install if you forget to plug some sensors in.
-you probably dont need cooler spark plugs with a vf22. talk to txs about what they recommend, as they will be doing the tuning, and they prefer copper to iridiums.
-catch can- not a bad thing to have...but not needed.
-reverse flow hood scoop- not needed. primarily aesthetic.
-upgraded tires- not needed yet, but not a bad investment as the stockers suck.

theres nothing wrong with a WBO2 sensor. if you are going to want to tune the car yourself, then go for it...and theres no sense in going to txs, as they will tune it for you. if you arent going to tune it yourself, dont get the WBO2 as it will be a waste.

if you are going to txs to get your utec tuned, you can easily get across the country without issue. (non-mechanical, that is). if you get 565cc injectors, set your utec to 565cc. if you get 785cc, set it to 785cc. if you get 850cc, set it to 850cc. there is nothing hard about that, and it should give you a sufficient map to get from point A to point B without issue. it should land you in the vicinity of a decent tune. you could also find someone who has similar mods and see if they have a map you could use that would be close.

Ka mano, I am going to attempt to do this myself. I have thought about getting a different intake just to make the turbo easier to put on plus it will look cooler. I have no idea how to prep a turbo before install. Injectors, UP, and FMIC will all be pretty basic and at most, really really annoying. I have no idea where I'm going to put an EGT probe, but I hope you'll tell me these things and not leave me hanging! Also, the lack of a backup plan is my incentive not to screw up and I don't have an ideal place to work on my car, but as you know, I live in PA, so I change my oil on a stone driveway that's nowhere near flat. I'll live. (lol I won't be doing it here though, I'll be doing it at my new apartment or in my sis's garage, hopefully the former). As for the WB 02 sensor, I'm sure if I take all this crap to TXS they'll know how to use it. Right now, I'm not doing anything with the suspension, I'll do that after. I do have enough self control to wait to drive like a maniac, even if I have all this stuff on. I really don't want to lose my hoodscoop, either, I'd rather have an even bigger STi scoop than no scoop at all.
If you guys think I might need new spark plugs, I'll get those too.
Ok, maybe I won't get the wb 02 sensor, but I will have to think about it.
So, here's a revised list of my upgrades according to you guys...

1. catless UP
2. vf22
3. catless DP ( bellmouth baby!)
4. catback (btw, is there any possible way i could pass emissions? could i put a cat or two on there and still have good power?)
5. FMIC
6. 650ish cc injectors
7. Some kind of intake.
8. of course, the UTEC
9. new gauges
THanks again for all your help.

Oh yeah, how much is it gonna cost to have it tuned?

Best way to find out how much TXS will charge for a tune is to call them.

TurboXS: 301-977-4727

My tune, including the cost of the dyno time, is going to be ~$500... that’s with one of the best (read: 'quicker') tuners in the country. You can find cheaper and you can find more expensive.

I think you’ll encounter a wealth of knowledge about parts if you call TXS to start setting up a tune. Like happasaiyan says, they can advise you about plugs, but also about injectors, etc.

I agree with happasaiyan about the WB. That's what I was saying, you don’t need it until you’re ready to tune, esp. if you’re on a budget like you say, ‘cause it’s major samolians. TXS will have their own, you know.

I also agree with him that I’m being compulsive about staying out of boost between the injector install and teh tune. He’s right about all that IMO... it’s not a crisis, you can get maps, etc. What are you gonna do… everywhere you go, there you are. He and I agree on the catch can, too… not needed but good to have. If you’re going to do it, might as well do it while your other bolt-ons are brand new!

If you overcome all the arguments against cold air intakes, you probably still couldn’t use one with your FMIC... so many pipes, so few openings. I couldn’t agree more with happasaiyan about dealing with the cat CEL issue... if it’s already fixed, well, uh... you don’t have to fix it.

I don’t agree with him on something, though. Pairing a reverse hood scoop with a FMIC is not at all about looks... it’s all about air flow induction. Having a good place for air to escape the engine bay will induce more air to enter through the grill opening, decreasing intercooler core temperatures... what it’s ‘bout. Keeping a stock hood scoop with a front mount would be for aesthetics, or maybe finances. Buying a STi scoop that’s going to increase the rush of air through the hood, competing for space in the engine bay with air trying to get in past the front mount, that’s definitely choosing looks over performance. I think the stock WRX hood scoop looks cooler than the reverse one... more rexy. But I’m choosing function over form in my set up. Looking at things the way I do, seeing a FMIC and a STi scoop on a non-STi rex would look odd to me. But, having the right to choose what you think looks cool over other considerations... hey, that’s what makes getting to mod your own car so much fun! The air flow thing’s probably not that big a deal... it’s definitely not a reason to go with a bigger-than-stock TMIC over a good-sized front mount for stage 4.

I also don’t agree about the turbo timer, my .02. You just don’t strike me as the kind of guy who'd want to have to choose between a) reducing the life of your nice new turbocharger with hot shutdowns or b) trying to calculate how hard you’ve been driving then sitting in your car and waiting a corresponding number of seconds idling the engine before you get to turn it off and take the key. A good turbo timer will calculate a proper cooldown period for you and keep the car running for those number of seconds while you it lock up and walk away.

You’ll love a modded suspension when you get around to that, man. Makes driving so much more fun.

What do you say you do a search on EGT probe placement and let us know what you find and I’ll get back here with a resource I’ve got somewhere on turbo prep.

IDK about PA emissions testing. I do know of a midpipe that allows a “quick swap to replace the cat after you’re done at the track,” but IDK about its quality and I’m sure the swap would affect the tune. I’ll try to remember where I saw that.

Could you have a high-flow cat in your TBE and still have great power with the set up you’re going for? Absolutely! Could you increase performance with race pipe, or a bigger turbo, or a riskier tune, or with nitrous or more displacement? Sure. Each decision's got its trade-offs.

I used to live in western PA, so I can definitely picture oil changes on sloping stone drives... and having to thaw-out my car's door before it'd let me in! Good luck with your move, BTW.

If you overcome all the arguments against cold air intakes, you probably still couldn’t use one with your FMIC... so many pipes, so few openings.
figure out which fmic you are going with and then either get their matching cai (ie, i have an aps fmic, and could install the aps cai...or the injen cai...but i have a short ram)

I don’t agree with him on something, though. Pairing a reverse hood scoop with a FMIC is not at all about looks... it’s all about air flow induction. Having a good place for air to escape the engine bay will induce more air to enter through the grill opening, decreasing intercooler core temperatures... what it’s ‘bout. Keeping a stock hood scoop with a front mount would be for aesthetics, or maybe finances. Buying a STi scoop that’s going to increase the rush of air through the hood, competing for space in the engine bay with air trying to get in past the front mount, that’s definitely choosing looks over performance. I think the stock WRX hood scoop looks cooler than the reverse one... more rexy. But I’m choosing function over form in my set up. Looking at things the way I do, seeing a FMIC and a STi scoop on a non-STi rex would look odd to me. But, having the right to choose what you think looks cool over other considerations... hey, that’s what makes getting to mod your own car so much fun! The air flow thing’s probably not that big a deal... it’s definitely not a reason to go with a bigger-than-stock TMIC over a good-sized front mount for stage 4.
i have the aps dr500 and even when pushing my car really hard in the middle of the summer, everytime i have touched the hot side of the IC it has never been more than lukewarm. the cold side has always been, well, cold. a reverse scoop isnt going to prove your IC or radiator ineffective, as the air will just go under the car. this is nothing different than running a tmic.

I also don’t agree about the turbo timer, my .02. You just don’t strike me as the kind of guy who'd want to have to choose between a) reducing the life of your nice new turbocharger with hot shutdowns or b) trying to calculate how hard you’ve been driving then sitting in your car and waiting a corresponding number of seconds idling the engine before you get to turn it off and take the key. A good turbo timer will calculate a proper cooldown period for you and keep the car running for those number of seconds while you it lock up and walk away.
maybe you dont know this, or havent seen it on this site before (even though its been posted many many times...and i should probably just say SEARCH), but a turbo timer isnt needed on our cars. the hot coolant will actually create a natural syphon since the coolant reservoir is above the turbo. the coolant will continue to flow through the turbo until cooler. this renders the turbo timer pretty much pointless. does it hurt? well, kinda, as there are usually problems with remote entry + turbo timers anyways, but as for the turbo, it wont hurt you, but doesnt really do anything the car isnt already doing naturally when you shut it off. 500whp STi's dont use turbo timers, why would you?

What do you say you do a search on EGT probe placement and let us know what you find and I’ll get back here with a resource I’ve got somewhere on turbo prep.
if you are keeping the stock header, just tap the nipple on the drivers side header casting. if you are going aftermarket, tap the #4 cyl 4-6" from the block.

as for turbo prep...when you install the upgraded fuel system, you will have to (or should) depressurize the fuel system. you do this by disconnecting the fuel pump relay under the glovebox...and then running the car till it dies. if you do the turbo install in one fell swoop, dont reconnect those plugs. when youre done, just crank the motor for 20-30 seconds. the car wont start, but it will get oil flowing to your turbo. then just reconnect the plugs and then fire her up.

Check this FAQ out and its links:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=6463636 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=6463636)

Wow, that's a lot of information. As far as the EGT goes, happasaiyan says to tap the nipple on the header casting. Do I just do this with a drill?
Where do you guys live? Maybe I'll just compensate for gas money and pay for dinners and crap and have someone drive here :) Man, I am lost. HELP!
Caleb

Oh yeah, and when all this is finally done, (I've been waiting to ask!) how much hp will I be looking at at the crank/ wheels?

... HELP!1. take a deep breath
2. let it out slowly
3. keep learning, set a goal, create a plan, repeating steps 1 and 2 throughout...

Break it down. You want to put on your own TBE? Read up on it, talk to people who've done it, figure it out. When you think you've got that, do the same with up-pipes. Then turn your attention to EM.

You don't have to do stage 4 all at once... it can be fun getting to know your car at different stages in the upgrade path. Do the exhaust and the EM and drive it a while, get good grades, collect interest on your cash, and prepare yourself for the next step.
Remember... you've already got a great car! Take a break and go for a drive!

LOL, steps 1 and 2 help once in a while! Thanks again for all the info.

1. take a deep breath
2. let it out slowly
3. keep learning, set a goal, create a plan, repeating steps 1 and 2 throughout...

Break it down. You want to put on your own TBE? Read up on it, talk to people who've done it, figure it out. When you think you've got that, do the same with up-pipes. Then turn your attention to EM.

You don't have to do stage 4 all at once... it can be fun getting to know your car at different stages in the upgrade path. Do the exhaust and the EM and drive it a while, get good grades, collect interest on your cash, and prepare yourself for the next step.
Remember... you've already got a great car! Take a break and go for a drive!


SO TRUE!!!

Yes, I agree, I love my car every minute. I have really REALLY gotten to know it, I don't think you have any idea! I live in PA and commute about 35 miles each way to school every day so I have spent COUNTLESS hours in de twisties! These are great cars and I have loved it from day one.
HOWEVER, I do want to squeeze a lil more out of it. On the other hand, it might take longer than I had originally thought, I need to buy some stuff for my apartment and get some student loans out of the way first. BUT mark my words, this WILL BE DONE!
I thought about putting on stuff a piece at a time and testing it out, but it's always been sort of a fantasy I've had of just stockpiling a bunch of parts and doing it all at once, which is what I think I will still do.
Keep that advice a'comin!
Caleb

I personaly think that the A-P will best support your needs for now especialy as a collage student. It is only $595.00 and you will be able to jump up to the street tunner as soon as you can afford it. COBB also has a map for the VF-30 which in my opinion will give you much better drivability than a VF-22. with a VF-22 you realy want to have an 8000rpm redline, that way you increase your useable rpm range. The spool on a vf22 realy sucks. The only thing that the COBB AP doesn't say that it will support is the front mount, which I personaly don't think wll make a huge diffrence, considering that it will also adapt to diffrent paramitors. I would definatly call COBB to verafy what I said, but I have herd of several people an the AP Threads that COBB hoasts having front mount Intercoolers. Just give them a call. It can't hurt to ask.

Hey guys,
I don't know if any of you are still subscribed to this thread but if you are, here is my DEFINITE mod path now that I've got it all figured out...

megan racing headers
catless erz up
vf22 turbo
catless erz dp
catback
565 or 650 cc injectors, not sure on that yet
perrin fuel rails
fmic (whatever one I can find, even if its the ebay one)
don't really care what bov i get
walbro 255 fp
UTEC!!!!!
prodrive springs or used STi suspension if I can find it cheap enough

thats about it.

Thoughts or comments welcomed