The NY Times carried an interesting article today at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/18/automobiles/18warn.html (see www.bugmenot.com for userid/pw) titled Dumbing Down Over-Engineered Cars - Armed with weapons from screwdrivers to laptops, car owners are fighting back. As you might expect, the BMW 7 series with its iDrive system receives mention. But I was mildly surprised to see two different Subaru Forester owners quoted. Although complaints about and fixes for the Forester's auto climate control and hill-holder are well known within the Subaru community, one doesn't often read about them in the mainstream press. Sam Later, 36, a systems integration analyst from West Paterson, N.J., found that the automatic climate control in his Subaru Forester was letting him freeze in the winter and boil in the summer - despite a temperature setting of 76 degrees. After complaining to the company and being told "the system is performing as designed," he got out his toolbox and traced the problem to a badly placed temperature sensor. His solution: a 12-volt fan that blows air over the sensor. "It forces the sensor to react to the slightest changes in temperature," he said. Mr. Later has now sold 20 kits to other Forester owners, who can make the repair with a Phillips screwdriver, a 10-millimeter socket and some duct tape.

ANOTHER Forester owner, Peat Romano, 43, a thermal processing specialist for a pet food company in Lawrence, Kan., has tinkered with cars since he was 10. But he now arms himself with a fast Internet connection instead of a wrench. "I scour the Net for information on how to improve my 2004 Subaru Forester XT Turbo," he said. One handy trick he has learned is how to cancel his manual transmission's annoying hill-holder feature by adjusting some well-hidden nuts. The hill holder applies the brakes when the car is stopped on any grade with more than a three-degree angle. "If I had wanted an automatic," he said, "I would have bought one."

That's pretty funny.

Bugmenot.com no longer works with NYTimes. How irritating. :rolleyes:

Bugmenot.com no longer works with NYTimes. How irritating. :rolleyes:Sorry about that. I hope you pressed their THIS LOGIN DIDN'T WORK button.

i thought the hillholder was a good feature what the heck? did they fix the automatic climate control problems in the 05 foresters?? i was tryin to get my friends dad to buy a new 05 forester L.L. Bean

One reason I like my WRX is that it is not overloaded with gadgets. As far as I'm concerned the only "modern" inventions I like on a car (my other 2 cars are 37 years old---a '69 911---and 33 years old---a BMW Bavaria) are cruise control and better crash protection. While cruise control is surely not necessary, I do find it nice to be able to move your feet around when cruising on the freeway. BMW, and even Porsche, lost me when they turned their cars into one big mobile electronic control unit.

Cool. NASIOCers making the NYTimes.

I felt the same way about my hill-holder at first. I had the dealer adjust it and now it's perfect! The climate control is another story and I never put it in automatic mode! Yes, less complaints on the '05 ACC.

Nice Peaty and Sam! :cool:

-Dennis

Oldnslow-I'm guessing you're one of the cranks on the SSR list, yes? I had to let my Bav go two years ago but I'm still looking for a replacement that's a little more intact.

I don't use the auto controls on my 05 WRX (I think the whole thing's lifted from the Forester). I've always adjusted the vents to suit the current conditions.

Funny thing is I didn't unhook my HH but I did tell him many people do and why. Something I don't like about it is if you have to back out of a spot and you are on an incline. It makes the brakes hang up. As far as the CC fix I did install Sam's fix (the author did talk to me about that too amoung other things) and it does seem to help. I put a page up on scoobymods about it if anyone is interested. Got my name spelled right and that's what counts :p

I'm surprised somone noticed the article :o

Peaty

Yotsuya--yup, I do subscribe to SSR (Senior Six Registry) :) My car is a '72, pretty much concours, that I bought new. Car has a Metric Mechanic 3.5 with big Webers---hehe. Learned how to drive on a track with it, and still take it to the track once a year or so. Great car, beautiful. Never given me a bit of a problem. Takes a well driven E36 M3 to keep up with it!

']Sorry about that. I hope you pressed their THIS LOGIN DIDN'T WORK button.

Sorry, I wasn't saying you are irritating. I hope you didn't take that the wrong way.

I meant that it's irritating that you must sign up for spam emails in order to read articles at NYTimes.com.

I tried about 8 different logins at bugmenot.com without success.

I'm envious; mine was in great shape other than a trashed nose and a brake pressure problem I never located. And after I spend all that time under the car replacing the flex disk, support bearing, and caliper rebuilding, too. The Zeniths even worked pretty well...

Pretty awesome!

Where can I find more info about the Auto Climate Control hack?

Nice find!

Great hijack too.. very interesting, Yotsuya & Oldnslow ;) I love old Bimmers. Not suprising that you two dropped into the thread with 'over-enginnering' in the title.

I'm kinda exaggerating my thoughts about modern cars simply because I own two vintage cars, one a sports car and one an early sports sedan. I'm sure I would enjoy a new Porsche or BMW if I had one, though I am really put off by the prices of performance cars now. It is amazing the performance and reliability Subaru offers with the WRX, STI, and Legacy GT for $30K or less. I have a good friend, who also has a fantastic early 911 track car, and we both have 02 WRXs that we thoroughly enjoy.

Oldnslow & Yotsua, you're sounding like the guy quoted in the last paragraph of that article:Hans Isler, 39, an information technology consultant from Fairfield, Conn., uses his laptop to recalibrate the engine on his 2001 Audi TT, but he still finds it a relief to switch to tending his 1961 Porsche 356B. "With the Porsche," he said, "if it has gas and a spark, it will run.".

Yeah, I can relate to that. Except Hans is 39, and I'm 61---hence Oldnslow :)

Where can I find more info about the Auto Climate Control hack?
Scoobymods.com (http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4699&referrerid=8267) and Sam's ACC fix. (http://www.geocities.com/samiam_68/SubaruCCS/SSC_Fix.htm)

-Dennis

Nice references to both of you, Peaty and Sam.

I've been at a business conference all week and one of today's presenters actually made reference to this article. He didn't mention you guys but the iDrive example as an example of introducing a technological "solution" for technology's sake without gauging the impact on the user community's needs (e.g., requirements analysis, learning curve, maintenance/repair/change control). It got a chuckle from the gearheads in the audience.

Oldnslow - I have an itching for an early 911 but I fear I may never get to scratch it.

Ed

lark6--the early cars up through '73 are the best IMHO. They are so lightweight and fun. When tweaked, they are simply wild. I've had mine 15 years or so, run it on the track all the time, including 5 years road racing in Pacific Northwest SCCA. Probably put 15-20K track miles on it over the years. Had motor and tranny rebuilt a couple of times (car is RS look-alike with race 2.7--250hp/2200lb dry). Fantastic car, but of course to do what I have done with it you have to pay to play. I'm sure I could have bought a new 911 for what I have put into it, but it wouldn't be nearly as much fun as this old car.

I actually love the hillholder feature. It makes it much easier to launch because you can take your foot off the brake. Wouldn't even consider getting rid of it.

Yep, pay to play is the issue - I can afford price of entry but maintenance may be the kicker. I'm pretty much finished restoring my Studebaker so that's in maintenance phase; it's fun to drive but in a whole different way. Of course if my son's 529 plan continues its pace that may make matters easier.

My interest is in a '70-72 T or E upgraded to S mechanicals; coupe, not targa. I'll leave it at that so as not to take this too deep OT.

Funny thing is I didn't unhook my HH.
Peaty

You're in Kansas. Of course you don't mind the hill holder.

I have hillholder in my 95 Legacy and love it. I think some of them are just oversensitive and need to be adjusted.

btw I am registered at NYTimes.com and don't get any spam e-mails.

You're in Kansas. Of course you don't mind the hill holder.

I'm on the MO side and in the Flint Hills though it's not flat here :P

However, I didn't mind the HH when it was on the Brats (3), we had either. I lived in North West Jersey where it was very hilly. I just got use to it is all. 90% of the time I forget it's there...

On the non-technology side, If we got a coupe from subaru, I'd prefer manual windows. On a four door it is annoying to try to use all four, but on a coupe (or two door hatch like my old escort), it's just 'reach over and wind'. Keep It Simple.

Tom

On the non-technology side, If we got a coupe from subaru, I'd prefer manual windows. On a four door it is annoying to try to use all four, but on a coupe (or two door hatch like my old escort), it's just 'reach over and wind'. Keep It Simple.

Tom

good point. and i'm guessing power window & power seat motors add a bunch of weight.

^^Somehow I don't see crank windows as very likely. I'd like non-power steering but have given up. Americans are just too lazy for manual anything.

Power seat and window motors weigh next to nothing compared to - carpets, for example.

Btw, we had hill holder on the old Legacy - neat feature, as long as you kept it properly adjusted. Oh, and never a problem reversing on hills, etc.