Still no proper thread for this weekend's race!? This forum is slipping. Predictions, etc?

How about this late-breaking news tidbit:
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/15441/

By the current looks of things, Ferrari will bar Minardi from competing in this weekend's GP.

Prediction: same ole MS-perfectly-executed-pitstop-extravaganza-for-the-easy-win.

No Minardi? There might be a manufacturer's point up for grabs! :lol:

Prediction: same ole MS-perfectly-executed-pitstop-extravaganza-for-the-easy-win.


Do most people think Ferrari was sandbagging during winter testing? They didn't seem to be going all that fast with the adapted 2k4 car...

Definitely sandbagging. I think MS is the sandbagging master.

the honest answer is i dont know what will happen, and neither does anyone else. :D

It's all about the tyres and how they will perform in hotter climates than winter testing. The cars themsleves will matter less in terms of Ferrari V the rest.

What i do expect to see is a dominant performance by one of the tyre manufacturers, if Michellin have it right we will see a race, if Bridgestone have it right it will be a borefest unless the TV director ignores Ferrari and looks at the race for 3rd.

If Minardi doesn't race this weekend, then niether will anybody else (except cry baby Ferrari)

Paul Stoddart claims that he has an agreement with the 8 other teams, which support Minardi running 04 spec cars, that they will boycott the event if Ferrari doesn't agree.

Man, that makes me so sick. It's not enough that Ferrari is world champion, Jean Todt also feels that they need to pick on the poorest team in F1, who are doing all they can to stay in the sport. Ferrari claims that it is an FIA matter, but in fact, if all teams agree, then it's race on.

I hope Ferrari's rein ends this season. GO MONTOYA!!!!!!!111

Minardi will race, I'll be very surprised if that doesn't happen, but it seems like there'll be a helluva lot of BS flying around before they do.

MS goes just as fast as he needs.

Melbourne is a cool track. I might have to jump in a car tonite and do some drivin.

Remember all of you stateside peeps. Thursday night is televised practice, iirc 9pm est. :banana:

Here's everyone's picks.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724713

I started the thread just to remind people to sign up for Pick 6, but it turned into an AU prediction thread. I changed the title, but that only changes the title of the first post.

I'm hoping pit strategy doesn't dictate the results. I think that since they have to run the same tires you will see greater speed differentials between drivers who are still out on low fuel and drivers who are full up from a pit stop, since drivers won't have a fresh tire advantage out of the pits.

I agree with johnfelstead that it's going to come down to which tyre (that's for you john) manufacturer has the better product, at least for the first couple of races.

I'm crossing my fingers for some off-line passing and an interesting grid lineup.

Hey, in this country we spell tire with an "I"!
I agree with John too. Tires will win the race.
Ferrari is sandbagging, as always. I don't think they ever show their true pace in public tests. They wait to hit you between the eyes in Melbourne every year.
This Minardi thing is shapping up strangely right now. I know Stoddart has a lot of support from the other teams since he is the most outspoken one but I doubt the other 8 will boycott the race. Think of how much money they spent to lug all of their stuff from Europe.

Unless I'm mistaken, it's up to the race organizers to pay for the transport of cars & gear to "away" races. That's how it is for the American events, anyhow.

Frank Williams seemed to think that although Ferrari were, fastest lap for fastest lap a bit behind the other teams, when you did the math on long runs, they were right up there with the other teams, pace-wise.

There will be so much learning this year, and the smoothest, most adaptive drivers will do well. I wouldn't be putting much dosh on the "grab it by the neck and wring it out" types, who are hard on tires. And if Schumacher doesn't adapt his driving style, he'll have fried rubber with a third of the race left, like the other folks, watching the technicians such as Button, Barrichello and Coulthard drive away.

It's all going to be fascinating, even IF Ferrari does what they did last year, just to figure out what the FIA is going to try next to slow them down. :lol:

Kevin

Weather forcast is for cooler temps than last year.

Looks like Red Bull is also blocking Minardi
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/15465/

Looks like Red Bull is also blocking Minardi
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/15465/

According to PlanetF1.com Red Bull is now backing down from that. Oh the silliness. At least the racing starts soon.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/story_18745.shtml

How did you get through that article with that "Download Nuts Babes to your Mobile!" ad staring you in the face?
:)

First practice starts (not on speed) in 1:20 minutes (I think) or 6:00PM Central.

Actually Speed airs the second Friday Free Practice...the frist session is now in the record books....

Friday First Free Practice - Australian GP

Friday March 4th, 2005

By Will Gray

Vitantonio Liuzzi gave his new Red Bull Racing team a debut delight as he topped the times in Friday’s opening practice session for this weekend’s Australian Grand Prix as Formula One kicked back into action in Albert Park.

The new two-race engine rules forced teams to opt for limited running and with many drivers choosing to preserve their powerplants rather than running up too many practice laps only 18 of the 24 cars set a time.

In warm, but not hot, conditions with cloudy skies and temperatures of 20 degrees Liuzzi, who had been hoping for a race drive with Red Bull, made his mark with a time of 1:25.967.

Pedro de la Rosa finished second for McLaren with a time 0.513 seconds slower than Liuzzi with Toyota test driver Ricardo Zonta third but a massive 1.298 seconds off the pace.

The top three drivers completed 19, 19 and 20 laps respectively but McLaren driver Juan Pablo Montoya set the fourth fastest time after just five laps of running with his new team.

Scot David Coulthard, the man Montoya replaced at McLaren, finished fifth fastest in the second Red Bull Racing machine while Felipe Massa claimed sixth fastest time for Sauber.

Home hero Mark Webber, who drove over Sydney Harbour Bridge last weekend, finished seventh fastest on his debut for Williams but he was 2.302 seconds off the pace of the lead driver.

Italian Jarno Trulli claimed eighth place for Toyota with Briton Jenson Button ninth for BAR-Honda and Christian Klien ensuring all three Red Bull machines finished in the top ten.

Liuzzi was the first man to set a competitive time when he drove his Red Bull Racing machine around the Albert Park circuit in 1:30.512 in the opening 15 minutes.

McLaren, who won the right to run a third car on the Friday of each Grand Prix weekend by finishing fifth last season, then saw de la Rosa better Liuzzi by more than a second to go to the top of the times.

The new rules had an effect on running and at the half-way point Jordan trio Robert Doornbos, Narain Karthikeyan and Tiago Montiero were the only other three drivers who had been out on track.

De la Rosa then upped the mark again before Webber came out to a cheer from the crowd as made his competitive debut for Williams to begin his first Australian Grand Prix in a front-running car.

Karthikeyan looked as though he suffered an engine problem 35 mins into the session when smoke was seen from the rear of his Jordan and he was forced to remain in the pits for the rest of the session.

More cars began to venture out as the session moved towards a close but it was clear the full picture of who will be early-season favourites would not be seen until teams risked more running later in the weekend.

Ferrari finished 12th fastest with Rubens Barrichello but world champion Michael Schumacher failed to set a competitive lap time as he chose to preserve his engine for the rest of the weekend.

McLaren driver Kimi Raikkonen and Renault pair Fernando Alonso and Giancarlo Fisichella also failed to set a time while Minardi were unable to run after failing to receive permission to use their 2004-spec cars.

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Liuzzi Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:25.967 19
2. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:26.480 + 0.513 19
3. Zonta Toyota (M) 1:27.265 + 1.298 20
4. Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:27.425 + 1.458 5
5. Coulthard Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:27.573 + 1.606 9
6. Massa Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:27.971 + 2.004 5
7. Webber Williams-BMW (M) 1:28.269 + 2.302 10
8. Trulli Toyota (M) 1:28.366 + 2.399 10
9. Button BAR-Honda (M) 1:28.632 + 2.665 10
10. Klien Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:28.834 + 2.867 9
11. Heidfeld Williams-BMW (M) 1:29.172 + 3.205 9
12. Barrichello Ferrari (B) 1:29.227 + 3.260 5
13. R.Schumacher Toyota (M) 1:29.285 + 3.318 12
14. Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:29.332 + 3.365 7
15. Doornbos Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:29.370 + 3.403 23
16. Sato BAR-Honda (M) 1:31.364 + 5.397 9
17. Monteiro Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:32.348 + 6.381 15
18. Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:38.175 + 12.208 6
19. Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) No Time 1
20. M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) No Time 3
21. Fisichella Renault (M) No Time 2
22. Alonso Renault (M) No Time 2
23. Friesacher Minardi-Cosworth (B) No Time 0
24. Albers Minardi-Cosworth (B) No Time 0

All timing unofficial

Looks like driggity's drunken prediction of a Red Bull 1-2 may not be far off.

Yeah, that's why it says "NOT on speed."

Duh, my mistake..in my excitement I simply read your post too quickly. :)

Sigh.....so nice to see the cars running again!!!!

Wow, Matchet just said an engineer at BMW told him they lost 30% of their downforce with the 05 rule changes but contiuned develpment has gotten back all 30% loss.

Incredible.

Bernie, please bring the mulit-feed pay per view HD F1 coverage to the US.

Friday Second Free Practice - Australian GP

Friday March 4th, 2005

By Will Gray

McLaren took first blood in the build-up to Sunday’s Australian Grand Prix when test driver Pedro de la Rosa set the fastest time of the day as he topped Friday’s second practice session at Albert Park.

De la Rosa, who finished second behind Red Bull driver Vitantonio Liuzzi in the first session, set a time of 1:25.376 to finish three tenths of a second ahead of team-mate Kimi Raikkonen.

McLaren have been tipped as favourites to take victory in Melbourne this weekend as world champions Ferrari struggle with their modified F2004M car before introducing their all-new model later in the year.

With Juan Pablo Montoya fifth fastest the Woking-based team look set to put in a strong challenge for victory but they will have to contend with a few regular rivals if Friday’s running is a prediction of what is to come.

World champion Michael Schumacher looked down and out after opting to conserve his engine life failing to set a time in the opening session then struggling to perform in his opening laps in the afternoon run.

But he was soon back to his familiar form and finished fourth fastest and was 0.705 seconds off the pace although he was, for once, not the fastest German as compatriot Nick Heidfeld claimed third in the lead Williams.

Brazilian Felipe Massa finished sixth fastest for Sauber with Spain’s Fernando Alonso seventh in the lead Renault after opting, like Schumacher, to conserve engine life and not set a time in the morning session.

Briton Jenson Button finished eighth in the lead BAR-Honda with Rubens Barrichello ninth in the second Ferrari and Italian Giancarlo Fisichella rounding out the top ten in the second Renault.

Teams limited their running in the first session to reduce engine wear for the weekend but they were not so cautious in the second and with 20 minutes gone all but the two Minardi cars had set a competitive lap time.

De la Rosa led the way again early on but the times were significantly slower than in the morning with temperatures rising to 22 degrees Celsius.

With 30 minutes gone Raikkonen was on top of the pile with a time of 1:26.311, around four tenths slower than Liuzzi’s session-leading time of 1:25.967 from the morning running.

His new team-mate Montoya, who joined from Williams at the end of last year, soon offered a taste of things to come, however, when he pipped the Finn by just 0.084 seconds to take the top spot away just seconds later.

Fisichella sat in third spot for Renault with David Coulthard fourth for Red Bull while world champion Schumacher sat in a distant 18th spot after completing just six laps.

Robert Doornbos, the Dutch Jordan test driver, had an early spin and Liuzzi, who topped the morning session, also made a mistake and lost control at turn three but was able to recover.

Barrichello spun his Ferrari at turn nine and Fisichella lost control of his Renault at turn 10 while Christian Kilen, of Red Bull, and Jordan’s Tiago Montiero both looked ragged as they dropped two wheels onto the grass.

Once again Patrick Freisacher, of Austria, and Dutchman Christijan Albers were forced to wait for their debuts as Ferrari continued to block their Minardi team’s request to run cars with aerodynamics that do not comply to 2005 rules.

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:25.376 28
2. Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:25.676 + 0.300 15
3. Heidfeld Williams-BMW (M) 1:25.940 + 0.564 23
4. M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) 1:26.081 + 0.705 15
5. Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:26.227 + 0.851 14
6. Massa Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:26.357 + 0.981 19
7. Alonso Renault (M) 1:26.562 + 1.186 21
8. Button BAR-Honda (M) 1:26.611 + 1.235 26
9. Barrichello Ferrari (B) 1:26.639 + 1.263 14
10. Fisichella Renault (M) 1:26.667 + 1.291 23
11. Zonta Toyota (M) 1:26.808 + 1.432 31
12. Coulthard Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:27.017 + 1.641 22
13. R.Schumacher Toyota (M) 1:27.162 + 1.786 16
14. Trulli Toyota (M) 1:27.195 + 1.819 24
15. Webber Williams-BMW (M) 1:27.329 + 1.953 19
16. Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:27.513 + 2.137 18
17. Klien Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:27.544 + 2.168 14
18. Sato BAR-Honda (M) 1:27.891 + 2.515 20
19. Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:28.168 + 2.792 29
20. Doornbos Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:28.620 + 3.244 30
21. Liuzzi Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:28.926 + 3.550 7
22. Monteiro Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:29.671 + 4.295 23
23. Albers Minardi-Cosworth (B) No Time
24. Friesacher Minardi-Cosworth (B) No Time

All timing unofficial

As already stated, it's great to see the cars running in anger again. :D

I believe that the concorde agrement specifies that the teams must field a grid of 20 cars. What's going to happen if Minardi doesn't race? Will McLAren run a third car? Will Ferrari?

Agreed, cool to see the cars running again, but I gotta say, if anything, the lap times show the futility of the rules changes in actually slowing the cars down. We'll see if they have any affect on making the races more exciting.

It was definitely nice to see and hear the cars running again. Other than drivers opting to go over the grass/gravel rather than locking the wheels up, it pretty much looks like last year and I'm pretty sure the qualifying times will be pretty close to last year's times which would still put them ahead of the times from two years ago.

What was also interesting was Matchett's information that Minardi has all the stuff to make their car meet the 2005 formula, which makes you wonder what the deal is with Stoddart, and IS he being put up to something by the other teams?

Kevin

What was also interesting was Matchett's information that Minardi has all the stuff to make their car meet the 2005 formula, which makes you wonder what the deal is with Stoddart, and IS he being put up to something by the other teams?

Kevin

I believe the Speed article indicated that he only has two prototyes of the 2k5 Formula parts. Knowing Minardi driver's love of grass and gravel traps (I recall seeing Zsolt coming right for me at Montreal last year), this would not an optiomal decision....

The most interesting thing for me was the fact that Sauber has 05 spec Ferrari engines while Ferrari is running 03s in their own chasis. Strange for all of the tension between the 2 teams over the off season.

I remember reading soemthing where Ferrari said that the '05 engine would not fit in the '04 chassis and that is why they are not running it. If that's the case, how could Sauber get the engine?

During the practice the caption says that RB5(R?) Cosworth. So what is Sauber running :confused:

Or did I get my teams mixed up in all the excitment with the season finally starting...

During the practice the caption says that RB5(R?) Cosworth. So what is Sauber running :confused:

Or did I get my teams mixed up in all the excitment with the season finally starting...

I think RB stands for Red Bull. I keep getting Red Bull and Sauber mixed up since they have been joined at the hip forever until this year. Now they are two seperate teams.

You're mixed up. Red Bull and Minardi are running Cosworth motors, and Sauber runs the Ferrari motor. Particularly, the F2004M that Ferrari is running is using the 053 engine, while Sauber is actually running the newer 055 engine in their chassis. Sauber is running a full 2005 spec chassis instead of a modified 2004 chassis, and as such, designed it to take the newer 055 engine.

Whenever the F2005 debuts, you can be sure that it'll be built around the 055.

/Andrew

What was also interesting was Matchett's information that Minardi has all the stuff to make their car meet the 2005 formula, which makes you wonder what the deal is with Stoddart, and IS he being put up to something by the other teams?

KevinYou mean some of the teams *cough*GPWC*cough* might want to give Ferrari a political black-eye and would employ dirty tricks to do it?

Nooooooo... ;)

:cool:


http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/050304111819.shtml
Court grants Minardi injunction
Team to compete in Aussie GP qualifying

Formula One team Minardi was late Friday granted a court injunction to compete in qualifying sessions for the season-opening Australian Grand Prix after race officials had ordered them to comply with new regulations.

A judge in the Victorian Supreme Court ruled that the F1 minnows could participate in Saturday qualifying given that the matter was considered urgent.

Minardi team principal Paul Stoddart sought the court injunction after FIA stewards had told his team they had to comply with the 2005 safety regulations to participate in the Australian GP.

The court was adjourned until Saturday when the issue could be discussed further, the presiding judge said.

Stoddart said outside the court he was relieved his cars could get on the track on Saturday.

"Now it's in the hands of the court, I really can't say anymore than that except that Minardi will be participating tomorrow, as usual, at the Grand Prix," Stoddart said. "It's really fantastic to actually get on the track in the wake of all the publicity."

Earlier FIA stewards blocked Minardi's efforts to start their cars over the weekend unless the struggling team complied with new regulations

As for Minardi and their alleged '05 spec aero sitting around: I suspect they are fairly certain that attaching these untested devices will surely put their cars at GREAT risk, something they definitely cannot afford.....Interesting dilemma: how much $$$ does Minardi stand to lose by way of sponsorship incentive and TV $$$ and marketing $$$ by failing to grid VERSUS, how much $$$ does it need to replace a couple of completely wadded cars.......

Engines are an interesting dilemma for the top teams because: the 2004 spec engines are WAY too squeezed, they were designed ( internals and everything in it ) to last for exactly as long as they had to last year. A couple of different engineers have stated that these 2004 engines could not be modified to live a 2005 life. The teams have completely redisigned new engines from the ground up, necessarily, for the sole purpose of longevity. Wall thicknesses, alloy content...the whole 9 yards...even the gearbox integration had to be considered with the respect to dimensional rules changes and new aero req's for the rear end and undercarriage diffuser efficiency.
So much for the "cost saving theory"...from a cost accounting standpoint, the overall engine cost may actually be MORE this year than last, as they will not use as many, but the development infrastructure to retool and refit and retest a NEW casting from the ground up is a major departure from last years iterration.

Sauber's 05 Ferrari engine, I'm certain, is the basis for the Ferrari F2005 package, but obviously a "less than optimal" reliable customer variant of what the Scuderia will actually deploy.

Prediction: Ferrari will be relatively disasterous mid-pack finish in Australia...calculated and known before the lights even go out by Brawn et al........will stoically and confidently walk away already knowing the future..............

Renault and McLaren will scrap it out for at least the first 3 events to take full and complete advantage of points they may not again see later in the season.

BAR and Williams shoot for top six points...........

BriDrive

Ummm, wow. The courts are involved? This is going to get interesting.

/Andrew

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=23689

Minardi has withdrawn their complaint.

Maybe I'm a cynic, but all of this smells of publicity stunt on Minardi's part. This has to be the most press they have gotten in the last several years - I have a feeling they will magically be compliant with '05 rules in time for qualifying.

Maybe I'm a cynic, but all of this smells of publicity stunt on Minardi's part. This has to be the most press they have gotten in the last several years - I have a feeling they will magically be compliant with '05 rules in time for qualifying.

That's exactly what happened.

First, they couldn't get signatures from all of the other teams to run the 2004 car...

Then, they managed to get everyone's signatures, including Ferrari.

Upon inspection, the FIA rejected them and said that their car didn't meet the 2005 safety regulations, and couldn't race, even with the signatures.

Minardi then took the case to the Victoria Supreme Court, and successfully obtained a court injunction to run their cars in 2004 spec.

The FIA then filed back, presumably to get a stay of the injunction and keep Minardi out of the race.

Minardi then withdrew their complaint and the injunction, and are now bolting the 2005 parts up to the car to run.

*boggle*

/Andrew

Good call on the publicity stunt, that sounds like something Stoddard would do. I didn't care for his showboating on the podium with a bottle of champagne while his drivers and sponsors sat around with their thumbs up their butts.

What a wonderful oppertunity for the anti-Minardi camp to spew their pent up frustrations.

No frustrations here buddy, it's all gravy for a tifosi.

If that was directed at me, I am actually a big Minardi supporter... when I walked the pitlane last year in MTL, they were to only team that seemed to enjoy the fact that they were there. The didn't have any too-cool-for-you pretenses, and in fact were giving out balloons. I feel for the hardships they had last year (death of team principal, and Ford's last minute bail out) and think overall that the F1 grid needs them.

However this mess makes no sense and something stinks about it.

What a wonderful oppertunity for the anti-Minardi camp to spew their pent up frustrations.

:lol: 12345

Oh sorry. Did I pigeon hole you because you said something bad against Mindari? Shame on me.
<stirring the pot>

Actually you assumed to understand my position because I commented on Stoddard's antics.

You're right, it was stupid.
What a wonderful oppertunity for the anti-Ferrari camp to spew their pent up frustrations.

*edit*

I stand by that comment, there has been too much Ferrari bashing over this. If the pigeon hole fits, wear it. I am quite simply not anti-Minardi, but I do think Stoddard acting foolish. Perhaps his hand was forced, however his actions are not all about survival -- they are also highly political, which I give a :monkey:

Children!

:furious:

:D

I'm not anti-Ferrari or anti-Minardi ... and I think this is Stoddie's way of making much ado over nothing as a way to point at the absurdity of the policitcs inside of F1 these days.

I think it's great fun to watch... even if the racing is a bit predictable, at least the posturing isn't. :)

/Andrew

"Boring conversation anyway." <Blam!>
:)

Oh, man, I hear there is a race this weekend.

finally something we can agree on! :D

Next practice should be live (online) at 4:00PM Central time. formula1.com seems to have the quickest results. They actually look just like the version Ralph was looking at when sitting in his car, from the footage Speed had.

Son of a... it is wet in Melbourne..

Surprise, suprise...the Minardi crew somehow :rolleyes: managed to get their cars to conform to the '05 standards that they agreed to follow. How can anyone not think that this was a ploy just to get their name in the news?

how did they determine the order for 1st qualifying?

go kimi!

Surprise, surprise...Sato crashes during qualifying. Learn the limits of the car, and stay as close as possible to it without going over. Learn from Schumacher(Mikey, of course).

Go Kimi!!!:)


Mika

It IS SO nice to have the racing seasons getting started again!!!!

I was going to skip F1 at Indy this year but I think I just decided to start booking the trip afterall.

Already ordered my gold montreal tickets.

crazy qualifying session. if its dry tomorrow, the order will have to look very similar to today.

both Minardi's ahead of both Schumachers. :lol:

1. 6 FISICHELLA Renault M 1'33"171 204.901 Km/h
2. 16 TRULLI Toyota M 1'35"270 + 0'02"099
3. 7 WEBBER Williams BMW M 1'36"717 + 0'03"546
4. 11 VILLENEUVE Sauber Petronas M 1'36"984 + 0'03"813
5. 15 KLIEN RedBull Cosworth M 1'37"486 + 0'04"315
6. 14 COULTHARD RedBull Cosworth M 1'38"320 + 0'05"149
7. 8 HEIDFELD Williams BMW M 1'39"517 + 0'06"346
8. 3 BUTTON BAR Honda M 1'41"512 + 0'08"341
9. 19 KARTHIKEYAN Jordan Toyota B 1'44"357 + 0'11"186
10. 9 RAIKKONEN McLaren Mercedes M 1'44"997 + 0'11"826
11. 10 MONTOYA McLaren Mercedes M 1'45"325 + 0'12"154
12. 2 BARRICHELLO Ferrari B 1'45"481 + 0'12"310
13. 18 MONTEIRO Jordan Toyota B 1'46"846 + 0'13"675
14. 5 ALONSO Renault M 1'47"708 + 0'14"537
15. 21 ALBERS Minardi Cosworth B 1'49"230 + 0'16"059
16. 20 FRIESACHER Minardi Cosworth B 1'50"864 + 0'17"693
17. 17 R.SCHUMACHER Toyota M 1'51"495 + 0'18"324
18. 1 M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari B 1'57"931 + 0'24"760

Certainly a strange way to start things off... It definately should lead to very exciting race. :D

Fisichella Fastest in First Qualifying - Australian GP

Saturday March 5th, 2005

By Will Gray

Giancarlo Fisichella set the fastest time in opening qualifying for Sunday's Australian Grand Prix as a mid-session rainstorm helped shuffle the pack and set up the chance of a mixed grid for the season-opening event.

Fisichella set a time of 1:33.171 just seconds before a rainstorm ruined the chances of his rival front-runners and virtually assured him of starting Sunday's race from pole position.

New qualifying rules will see the opening session, which was run in the finishing order from last year's season-ending Brazilian Grand Prix, aggregated with Sunday morning's qualifying laps to decide the grid.

And with second-placed Jarno Trulli 2.099 seconds back in the lead Toyota and Fisichella's main rivals from McLaren and Ferrari much further behind, the new rules look to have thrown things up in the air from the very start.

World champion Michael Schumacher set his lap time in the worst conditions and finished 24.760 seconds off the pace leaving him with little chance of starting and further up than the second last row of the grid.

Australian Mark Webber, who was the sixth driver out in the session, finished third fastest in his Williams but was 3.546 seconds slower than Fisichella as his team-mate Nick Heidfeld finished down in seventh.

Former world champion Jacques Villeneuve finished fourth fastest, 3.813 seconds off the lead pace in his Sauber but his team-mate Felipe Massa was the unlucky driver who hit the downpour just after Fisichella's lap.

Red Bull Racing driver Christian Klien finished fifth fastest, just ahead of his more experienced team-mate David Coulthard after setting their times on a drying track earlier in the session.

Briton Jenson Button finished eighth fastest but was 8.341 seconds behind Fiscihella while Jordan Narain Karthikeyan finished ninth and McLaren driver Kimi Raikkonen finished off the top ten.

Dutchman Christijan Albers was the first man out on a damp track in temperatures of 16 degrees Celsius and he set a time of 1:49.230 in his 2005-spec Minardi, which had to be worked on overnight to meet the regulations.

His Austrian team-mate Patrick Friesacher followed but could not better him and it soon became clear that the two Minardi drivers were suffering from a severe lack of testing on their newly modified car.

Indian Karthikeyan, who crashed his Jordan at the end of morning practice and will be awarded a 10-spot grid penalty after changing his engine, was next out and moved five seconds ahead.

Button, who posted the final retirement of the season in Brazil, was the first lead runner on track and he set a benchmark time of 1:41.512 but with the sun rapidly drying the track suggested his name would soon slip down the timesheets.

German Heidfeld immediately went 1.795 seconds faster than Button, despite losing time when he went wide onto the grass during his lap, and Webber then blew his Williams team-mate's time away by a further three seconds.

Klien continued Red Bull's early pace to slot into second as conditions continued to dry out to leave a mostly dry track with occasional puddles on some of the corners.

Italian Trulli then went fastest but two-time Australian Grand Prix winner Coulthard, a self-proclaimed struggler with single-lap qualifying, complained of oversteer as he finished slower than team-mate Klien.

Villeneuve chose to risk dry tyres on his Sauber but he spun on his out-lap and only just managed to avoid the walls. He was slow in the first section but his gamble paid off on the latter part of the lap and he slotted into third.

The sky began to darken as Fisichella took to the track and he set the fastest time just seconds before a massive rainstorm drenched the track and left all remaining runners with no chance of improving on the Italian's time.

The soaking circuit saw Felipe Massa, the next man out, fail to finish his lap and Takuma Sato, out next, crash his BAR-Honda on his out-lap in turn eight and hit the wall hard.

The session was red-flagged after Schumacher's run to clear the debris from Sato's crash and when it re-started his team-mate Rubens Barrichello finished 12.310 seconds off the pace in the slippery conditions.

Raikkonen managed to finish just ahead of Barrichello to nudge his way into the top ten runners but Montoya, running last after winning in Brazil last year, failed to match his team-mate's pace and finished 11th.

The finishing times will leave Sunday's grid in a topsy-turvey order and, providing there are no unusual weather patterns on Sunday, the finishing order from Saturday's session is likely to remain similar for the grid itself.

Pos Driver Team Time
1. (12) Fisichella Renault (M) 1:33.171
2. (9) Trulli Toyota (M) 1:35.270 + 2.099
3. (7) Webber Williams-BMW (M) 1:36.717 + 3.546
4. (11) Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:36.984 + 3.813
5. (8) Klien Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:37.486 + 4.315
6. (10) Coulthard Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:38.320 + 5.149
7. (6) Heidfeld Williams-BMW (M) 1:39.717 + 6.546
8. (5) Button BAR-Honda (M) 1:41.512 + 8.341
9. (3) Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:44.357 + 11.186
10. (19) Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:44.997 + 11.826
11. (20) Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:45.325 + 12.154
12. (18) Barrichello Ferrari (B) 1:45.481 + 12.310
13. (4) Monteiro Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:46.846 + 13.675
14. (17) Alonso Renault (M) 1:47.708 + 14.537
15. (1) Albers Minardi-Cosworth (B) 1:49.230 + 16.059
16. (2) Freisacher Minardi-Cosworth (B) 1:50.864 + 17.693
17. (16) R.Schumacher Toyota (M) 1:51.495 + 18.324
18. (14) M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) 1:57.931 + 24.760
19. (13) Massa Sauber-Petronas (M) No Time
20. (15) Sato BAR-Honda (M) No Time

All Timing Unofficial

I love that somehow Minardi actually ended up owning Ferrari/Schumi...

Maybe I'll put a dollar down on MS because the odds must be million to one for a win now! :)

A million to one for a pole maybe. A win for the red cars is still easily in the cards.

Overall with the new rules I am not sure what to think. On one hand I think the FIA has castrated the essence of F1 but on the other it may make for some very interesting late race (worn tire) position changes. The jury is still out.

I think its funny that they showed Massa got lapped in qualifying.

both Minardi's ahead of both Schumachers. :lol:

:lol: :eek: :banana:

MS is sandbagging..don't get your hopes up.

MS is sandbagging..don't get your hopes up.
I don't think you can sandbag in a typhoon. We all know he has pace but im starting higher then 10th is highly unlikely.

MS was not sand bagging. MS chose the wrong tire for the changing conditions. I was impressed by the last 4 runners in full wet conditions. All I can say is hairball:eek:


fwiw:
I did some laps at Albert Park last night. The one thing that was obvious to me is corner exit speed and rear traction is key here. Their are about 3 important sections where you're under hard acelleration all the while still exiting a corner. So if your car has oversteer your going slow and battling a beast while watching the wall pass by very close. This was in the dry. The rain just magnifies everything. I was using EA's F1C sim driving Chili Boys, Williams 02 spec car.

He didn't choose the wrong tire, we went out during a monsoon.

I thought they said he was on intermediates, not full wets.

He was on intermediates, the tread patterns look a lot different.

intermediates = wrong tires.

My guess is that for the time period they had to choose tires, intermediates were correct and that they didn't have the time to change to full wets once the rain started pouring and they had to make their way onto the track.

Interesting how they are pulling off without even putting down a second qualifying time. Even with a new engine in the ferrari they are that concerned?

Micheal, shame on you. It was clearly his fault. MS moved way offline for a block (lame I know) and pushed Webber into the grass and then into MS.

Haha!

Great race tho. The Rennies look fast.

Bonzo, you are 100% spot on. Michael=teh cack for trying to block Heidfeld. He got what he deserved. I never would have guessed the results in a million years.

My Silver Arrows got some points though, and that's a promising sign(reliability). I'm a bit surprised that JPM did better than Kimi. Then again, Kimi messed up the second round of qualifying. Incredible recovery though;)...I was like :eek:



Mika

The engines are designed to last two races, they had better last at least through one. The real test will be how many are still running by the end of the second race.

Well, if you aren't in the points running you could do what BAR did and pull both drivers in the pit lane on the last lap and they don't "finish" the race. :rolleyes: That way they can start the next race with brand new engines. I bet F1 officials will figure out a way to make sure this doesn't happen alot.

LOL @ Button/Fry.

cue Button. Why did you pull into the pits Jenson? The team said there was a technical problem so i had to stop.

cue Fry. Why did your BAR cars pull into the pits? It was a tactical decision to allow us to run new engines at the next race.

PMSL, what was it Max said about teams not using the loopholes in the rules? :lol:

MS got what he deserved, what a stupid move cutting off Heidfeld so he had to go on the grass losing all his braking ability.

As to the new rules re tyres and aero packages, what a yawn fest, it doesnt look like we will see much in terms of racing under these new regulations, how many overtaking moves where there? If you want good racing multiply the mechanical grip levels significantly, dont reduce them with rock hard tyres. :rolleyes:

JV, the mobile chicane from hell, he was pretty poor.

DC did a good job, it's nice to see him enjoying the new team, i thought he should have packed it in last year but am changing my mind at the moment, he might just be the right person to sort Red Bull out before the youngsters take over. I bet Jaguar/Ford are reeling from that race result. :o

Oh yeh, and DC beat MW in his old race car, quality. :D

With Shumacher and BAR having fresh engines at Maylasia do they have to use them for round 3 while all the others have new engines?

yes, unless they pit on the last lap. :lol:

Why do tracks still employ the use of gravel to stop cars? Pave this area so we have no more stuck cars slowing the race and no more laying down gravel on the track after every off.

As to the new rules re tyres and aero packages, what a yawn fest, it doesnt look like we will see much in terms of racing under these new regulations, how many overtaking moves where there? If you want good racing multiply the mechanical grip levels significantly, dont reduce them with rock hard tyres. :rolleyes:



My thoughts exactly. If you where expecting to see all sorts of passing, then this race was a big disapointment.

Its F1, there has never been tons of passing. I think part of the problem is that the Bridgestone and Michelin thought it would be much warmer so they made harder tires, look at the tires on most of the cars, they were fine at the end of the race. Let people get used to the tires a bit more and it will get better. People were also being conservative because of the engine regulations. I thought it was a great race, and Red Bull doing good was very nice too.

I expect there to be an FIA rule change about the engine changing after the next race if people pull the same crap they did today. MS could have continued and BAR obviously could have, and Mosley already said they would change something if the rules were pushed around like this.

OK, so I fell asleep in front of the TV.
2nd place started 13th.
Last I saw he was behind JV and got repassed after a lunge.
Did TV show any more of the passes or was it all in the pits?
Rubens moved up too.
(I usually wake up if Hobbs says "Crickey").
rz

Like Stubeck said the tires were made on the safe side, esp for the first race using this rule. I lke the tire rule. It makes the driver think about the whole race. Experience, patience and setup will win races.


As for the engine rule I don't like it. It will change or decide races in a bad way. Winning out of attrition does make a good show. I bet if MS keeps dropping out early this rule will be changed rather quickly. MS out of the race equals bad business for Bernie.

The qual rule can also suck donkey... Too mach can happen ove the course of two days. Qualifying is now a roll of the dice. Before the fastest cars started at the front.

They should get Calvin Fish into these broadcasts so that we can listen to Calvin and Hobbs.

The TV coverage was pretty bad...they never really showed much of Rubens making his way through the field - they seemed to mostly concentrate on following Michael and Kimi back in pack.

Does anyone know what happened to Trulli?

With MS retiring early and getting a fresh engine for the next race, do you think this will mean the debut of the F2005 for MS a race earlier than expected? The other teams need to be worried about how good the next gen Ferrari will be as Rubens was able to keep pace and get 2nd in the old car with the old engine.

Schumacher's a putz! How dare he have the corner. He should have moved aside so that Heidfeld could have completed the move. Outrageous. :lol: :lol:

Awesome drive from Fisichella, and DC too, as well as Barrichello. Sad to say that for the TV show, they just changed the car color from red to blue/yellow. Most anti-Ferrari folks will be happy just because of that color change, however. But will the FIA be happy at the quality of the show?

Personally, I think that the FIA is going to be pretty disappointed. Had they just left the bloody cars alone, normal evolution would have done what they tried to do with the regulations, but succeeded only in making F1 more expensive for everyone.

What we have now is the same, only slightly different. Nobody really lost much time because of rubber going bad except for Montoya, something attributable to his driving style.

And sorry to say, for all the antis, but with a normal qualifying, Ferrari almost certainly gets two drivers in the top four, which would have put the FIA right back at square one. As it was, the FIA got lucky with unpredictable weather, in that it put most of the fastest cars (except for the well-timed Renaults) at the back of the grid. This allowed cars that otherwise don't really have the pace (Williams, Red Bull) but are close, to race well. Coulthard drove the wheels off that car. Again, awesome drive from him, and from Barrichello. Alonso would almost certainly have gotten second had the Villeneuve Chicane not been present, but that's life in F1. Good on him for not trying anything crazy, and biding his time.

Pre-spearing, Schumacher was on pace for a top 6, possibly better, as we don't know how hard he would/could have pushed toward the end of the race. Yes, he tried to shut the door kind of late, but if Heidfeld shows a bit of patience (the only way for him to complete that pass would have been for Schumacher to stay off the racing line, and as he is the lead car, why would he do that?), both cars live to fight again.

Meanwhile, the FIA is going to have to do something about that engine rule. How long, particularly if Ferrari and BAR do well, will we begin to see more and more out-of-contention drivers pulling the cars off with "hydraulic failure" or some such bollocks. The good thing is that many predicted this potential loophole. Now it's up to the FIA to close it.

There wasn't as much racing as I'd hoped. Perhaps things will be different in Malaysia, a very hot race that could also see some engine expirations, as well as the demon of excessive tire wear.

I think Ferrari will be heartened by the performance of the F2004M. I think that had they gotten whomped by McLaren and Renault, with Williams nipping at their heels, you probably would have seen the developement pace of the new car accelerated a bit. But with a 19-race season, even if they don't excel at the first four, as long as they get points, they'll be pretty pleased, I think.

Now that the season's here, I can't wait two more weeks, dangit! :lol:

Kevin

Trulli's car ate up the rear tires after the first pitstop

Kevin, you have schmi/ferrari hate too much on the brain. ;)

If anyone else pulled the move MS did i would say they were being stupid too. Heidfeld was going for a pass, MS saw that and rather than fighting the corner out like a good midfield running F1 driver, he took the track away so heidfeld had to go on the grass. Nick was already commited to the pass when MS moved to take the track away, cutting off his track space meant that instead of them going into the corner side by side and racing, they both were taken out because nick couldnt slow down. There isnt much grip on the grass, especially on these new tyres. :)

Put MS in the midfield and you see how his racing talent isnt as developed as his lapping tallent, he usually screws up when in that position these days, we might get to see this more as the year progresses. It's interesting to see his instincts havnt changed though, someones about to pass, ram the bastards off the track is his first reaction. ;) Any other driver would be being investigated by the stewards to see if they had a case to answer for causing an unavoidable crash, as per the new for 2004 rules where you can get penalised at the next race for such an infringement rather than be given a stop go penalty as per 2003.

As to him sitting there beconning marshalls on to push him out of the gravel, that has got to be stopped! Those marshalls should not be put in danger unless absolutely required, he should switch off and get out like every other F1 driver does.

The most disapointing thing about this race is that even with the mixed up grid and superior car/driver combo's in midfield, there was no overtaking worth a comment on. The new rules dont allow you to run close, they have limited that even more by taking away mechanical grip. There is a reason why Formula Ford is more exciting to watch than F3, thats because mechanical grip is all you have in FF so you can race as close as you like everywhere on the track. If we want good racing bring back fat ass slicks, get rid of the front wings aero afect and we might get to see some. Thats never gonna happen whilst Max is about though.

johnfelstead - great comments, i couldnt agree more.

I believe that the concorde agrement specifies that the teams must field a grid of 20 cars.
What's going to happen if Minardi doesn't race?

Minardi: will get DNS instead of DNF.

*clapping 4 john* :) well stated.

Man, I really throught DC was going to get a podium today. I still have no idea when Rubens and Alonso sniped him. Suddenly he was in 2nd instead of 4th and I looked like this :confused:

Great start for Red Bull, anyway, and a promising start for DC's new career.

Put MS in the midfield and you see how his racing talent isnt as developed as his lapping tallent, he usually screws up when in that position these days, we might get to see this more as the year progresses.

Absolutely!

Anyway, I hope Max doesn't take the credit for the unusual finish order. Nice to see a wide range of cars in the top 10 though.

Yay for Fisi!


- Andrew

We can agree to disagree on Schumacher, John. Whether he was in his position or Heidfeld's, he would have still been in the wrong in many peoples' eyes. That's just how it goes, but why quibble over it.

You're right about the lack of passing. And I don't see that changing. Partly I think that it's tire paranoia, in that everyone is worried about jinking around, trying different lines and thus prematurely wearing out the rubber, leaving them hosed late in the race. Hopefully, now that people see that the tires will last a race distance, and further, can still be fast late in the race, that will relax some.

What's interesting is that the cars are pretty evenly matched when it comes to defensive driving, but once a faster car gets by a slower one, the difference is apparent. Witness Alonso and Villeneuve.

The season is young, and there's much to look forward to. Maybe even that Schumacher guy will learn how to behave like a mid-packer. :lol:

Oh, and don't the rules state that a car can be pushed out of the kitty litter by stewards if it is deemed to be in a "dangerous position?" Sure, the FIA should change that rule, but if a driver takes advantage of it, it is within the rules, yes?

Kevin

Oh, and don't the rules state that a car can be pushed out of the kitty litter by stewards if it is deemed to be in a "dangerous position?" Sure, the FIA should change that rule, but if a driver takes advantage of it, it is within the rules, yes?

Kevin

Yes they do Kevin, and i am not criticising MS for using the rule, i am saying that rule has to be changed as its clearly being used in a way its not designed to be, and is endangering MS and the marshalls in that process.

Bleh...there's no way MS should've gotten pushed out.. that's like a get-out-of-jail-free card. I really don't think this race had meaning in the long run. With all the changes it was more of a feeler.

Yes they do Kevin, and i am not criticising MS for using the rule, i am saying that rule has to be changed as its clearly being used in a way its not designed to be, and is endangering MS and the marshalls in that process.

Agreed. I still remember seeing the one marshal, years ago, get submarined by an off-line car, luckily suffering a broken ankle. Just wish I could remember the race.

Kevin

I like the little fight going on in here between John and GT. I side with GT on this one. One pass this is worth mention is DC's on Webber. That was simply awsome. I thought there was zero chance of him making that corner. The race was good to show that there are other drivers out there with pace. With the sake up of the grid you could tell that some people were willing their cars to stay in the place they were blessed with (Jaquces and Trulli). The cars didn't have the speed but the drivers were still pushing as hard as they could. Usually that happens but you don't see it on TV.
KP

Agreed. I still remember seeing the one marshal, years ago, get submarined by an off-line car, luckily suffering a broken ankle. Just wish I could remember the race.

Kevin

Suzuka, Martin Brundle took out a marshall at 130R exit. He was very lucky not to hit one of those caterpillar recovery mini crane things they use in Japan.

Suzuka, Martin Brundle took out a marshall at 130R exit. He was very lucky not to hit one of those caterpillar recovery mini crane things they use in Japan.
It also happened in the 60's I think. The movie The Quick and the Dead shows some absolutely horrible footage of a marshal in Imola running to help a driver and getting hit by a car at full bore.
KP

Don't forget about poor old Tom Pryce at Kyalami in 1977. He got hit in the head with a marshall's fire extinguisher at 170mph... after the marshall had been already been hit and killed by Ritchie Ginther's car.

Here's a decent read from Renault's head of engineering Pat Symonds regarding the upcoming season.


Analysis: F1 Looks Forward to Tough Title Fight

Monday March 7th, 2005

By Alan Baldwin

Even if Renault's Giancarlo Fisichella made it look easy in Australia at the weekend, Formula One is bracing for a real battle ahead.

"You've got to be careful looking at one race and saying, right that's how the season will go," said Renault's head of engineering Pat Symonds after the French team's resounding victory in Melbourne.

"But there are signs, not just this from race but the testing we've been doing over the winter as well, that this is going to be one of the closest seasons for a while.

"I think that ourselves and McLaren are very, very close. Ferrari are there. Williams and BAR won't be far behind for long," he added.

"Red Bull had a great race and maybe they are joining in."

With champions Ferrari leaving their new car at home, possibly until the fifth round in Spain in May, Renault and McLaren were heavily tipped to set the pace in the season-opener.

In the end, the fickle Melbourne weather proved more decisive than anything.

Fisichella, officially making his debut for a team he knows well since he raced for them under the Benetton name, was favoured by heavy rain falling immediately after his Saturday qualifying lap.

That left rivals, including both McLaren drivers and Ferrari's seven times World Champion Michael Schumacher, with an insurmountable task and Formula One fans savouring a deep draught of fresh hope for the future.

Schumacher Nightmare

Schumacher qualified at the back of the grid, and was shunted out during the race, while McLaren's Kimi Raikkonen started from the pitlane. The real measure of who was hot and who was not lay elsewhere.

Brazilian Rubens Barrichello left no doubt that Ferrari, even with their old car, were quick when he went from a midfield position to second place.

"They are going to be a serious challenge right through the year," said Symonds.

"At the last Barcelona test, for example, on the Thursday we were doing a race distance with Ferrari and they were right up there. It might be last year's car but it was a pretty good car last year.

"They were quick today and one assumes their new car will be quicker and better so they are going to be really hard to beat. But at the same time we are constantly developing our car.

"We've got a whole new floor in Malaysia. It's only the second race but we've already got quite a big aero update. You just keep pushing."

McLaren showed their pace with Raikkonen storming through to take a point and Juan Pablo Montoya sixth.

"The result may not show this but we have the pace to challenge for victories," said Raikkonen.

"It was circumstances, it wasn't a straightforward race," Symonds agreed. "I'm sure they (McLaren) are as quick as us. I think on some circuits they will be quicker than us, at others we will be a bit quicker than them.

"What I do know is that they are quick and they just had a disastrous weekend. It could just as easily have been the other way round with them first and third.

"It's going to be a good, tough fight right through the year, I'm sure."

Malaysia, the next round on March 20, will throw more light on where the championship is heading with strategy likely to play a bigger part than on Sunday.

That race is the hottest of the year, a big test for reliability now that engines must last for two successive races.

BAR, overall runners-up last year, could come back into the fray after opting to retire their cars in Australia to enable a penalty-free engine change. Briton Jenson Button scored the first podium of his career there last year for BAR.

I lost a bit of respect for Schuey.... that was a very amateur move. I examined it frame by frame on my DVR. He should be penalized.

I lost a bit of respect for Schuey.... that was a very amateur move. I examined it frame by frame on my DVR. He should be penalized.

he was at fault, but everyone makes at least 10 ridiculous moves in racing in their lifetime. that might have been #5 :)

sam

Maybe, but the moves against Hill and Villeneuve in the 90's count for at least 2-3 each :)

the word "ridiculous" should cover those as one move each, and those moves were included in the five. I've done some ridiculous blocks which i regret in hindsight. two that i can think of immediately. luckily, no one was injured and no equipment damaged.

sam

I honestly don't understand all the Schumi hate. He was the lead car going into that corner, even if Heidfeld was trying a passing manuever. Why is a car in the lead obligated in any way to deviate from his already commited line to take an obviously poorer line through the corner? The way I saw it was Schumi held his intended line all throughout that corner entrance. It was Heidfeld who tried to dive in under and blasted right into MS's side in a doomed pass attempt when there was no opening whatsoever. MS should not be expected to create openings to allow others to pass him, that's asanine, and not reasonably expected from any other driver on the grid.

Yet to 80% of the people watching this is Schumi's fault? ... right...

I know people don't like him, but jeez... I didn't even think that one was questionable.

If there was anything sketchy it's his "retirement" a few laps later. Of course, that's what the FIA gets for making arbitrary engine rules I guess, serves them right IMO.

Watch the replay again. Heidfeld is passing on the inside, and MS jerks the car to the right. Heidfeld goes to the grass to avoid making contact, then of course can't stop because he's on the grass and ultimately hits MS in the corner.

The first time I saw it I thought Heidfeld was being too ambitious, but he was clearly faster and had the corner and it was MS's jink to the right that caused the accident.

And we're not haters, and we're certainly not the only ones thinking this:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_sports/view/136133/1/.html

I think Heidfeld's response to the incident pretty much depicts what happened.
Bottom line...who cares........
Its a mean, competitive, hyper ego sport and survival of the fittest in a game with, at best, enormous gray area where rules might exist. F1 has been INCONSISTENT in applying consequences to any rules, especially driver / line / incident rules...always.
Everyone state their opinion and move on.
Everytime somebody pulls a stunt, generally in the heat of battle, where things are happening at fractions of seconds and a racing incident occurs...we have the world's armchair quarterbacks throwing out a bunch of accusations as if they were the aggrieved party.
As a footnote, for every "incident" we see on the tele, there are a dozen more that we don't see at each race, and these perceived "slights" are racking up in the driver's brains....the classic, "Ok buddy...you want to play eh!...you are going to be called out soon for that one...best regards, Michael" or JPM or KR or JV or JB etc...some more vindictively than others.........

I, for one, thought the GP was a very interesting one on many levels. The qualifying format is definitely going to throw some curves all year long. I like the unpredictability of the format. Comparing fast laps of all the drivers was interesting. The deck shuffled out quite unpredictably and I'm certain topteam STRATEGY will play a very big role this year in who comes out where. Can't blame teams for pulling in cars before checker...blame/shame F1/FIA if they don't close hole.
BriDrive

Well, I don't have Tivo, so I only saw the live footage; perhaps I was fooled, but my first impression watching it was "WTH is Heidfeld doi..." <BAM>

MS HAS pulled off deliberate collisions before, the accident this weekend really didn't look like one of those to me. I guess if you do that too many times though, people stop giving you the benefit of the doubt...

Im not a Shucey hater but I do think the move was a bad one. If anyone else in the feild and tried it the media would be all over it (JPM, Sato even Ralph) as being amatuer. Nick had the line,Micheal chopped him. Its not the first time but its also not the end of the world. If I was Nick or Williams I'd be pissed, since I'n not either I don't really car, racing is racing.

As the effwon world turns:p

I am not a hater. I enjoy watching an obviously talented man manipulate a machine to it's fullest.

MS went way offline to block. As in more than a cars width offline. He made a decision in the heat of battle. imho this was not a very prudent move. His decision took 2 cars out of the event. MS had also just exited the pits with now cold tires. If someone would have did that to him (on cold tires), you would never hear the end of it.

Less than 2 weeks away before episode 2 :banana:

I also was left witha "what happened to Trulli?" feeling..he was P2..after the first round of pit stops he is P4 or P5 and they never explained why it happened...no coverage either..left me very confused

Well, I don't have Tivo, so I only saw the live footage; perhaps I was fooled, but my first impression watching it was "WTH is Heidfeld doi..." <BAM>

MS HAS pulled off deliberate collisions before, the accident this weekend really didn't look like one of those to me. I guess if you do that too many times though, people stop giving you the benefit of the doubt...

In the live action, I felt the same way you did -- that Heidfeld had made a bonzai move and took Schuey out. When I backed it up to let my wife see, it was clear that MS had moved two car widths inside the natural line just as NH came up on him. I still wasn't sure until I saw other cars taking the correct line later in the race.

When you replay it, it is brutally clear that NH got a much better run off the previous corner and was going to shoot by MS just as they entered the braking zone. If MS hadn't done what he did, we would have called it a brilliant and sportsmanlike pass.

Oh.... and I'm a huge MS fan.

^^^^^

perfect analogy, also a huge MS fan, but he pulled a bonehead move.

now, let's all look forward to episode 2 :banana:

sam

In the live action, I felt the same way you did -- that Heidfeld had made a bonzai move and took Schuey out. When I backed it up to let my wife see, it was clear that MS had moved two car widths inside the natural line just as NH came up on him.
Well, I guess the live footage was a bit misleading as it was broadcast. It did look like a bonzai move from the portion that I saw, but if Heidfeld really did set Schumi up coming out of the previous corner than it is a shame to see it ending up like it did.

Everything surrounding MS is disproportionate; the praise, the hate, the coverage (even when he DNF from a middling position). It's really a sad state of affairs; he certainly has an amazing amount of talent, but sometimes I feel like F1 would be a better series without him attracting (distracting?) so much of the attention...

I also was left witha "what happened to Trulli?" feeling..he was P2..after the first round of pit stops he is P4 or P5 and they never explained why it happened...no coverage either..left me very confused
Felt the same way about Trulli. I think the Yota just didn't have the pace. Everytime a round of pit stops happened he just dropped a couple of spots and the cameras never picked him up. I like him but that car is a dog.

Trulli had an issue with one of his rear tires, according to a race report I saw.

I was somewhat annoyed that for almost the entire first stint they focused on Alonso trying to get around JV. I guess they figured since Alonso was right up on him that a pass was imminent but I would have liked to see the front runners more.

If MS hadn't done what he did, we would have called it a brilliant and sportsmanlike pass.

IF... NH could have made the corner. It looked to me like an unlikely lunge, which MS played into by forcing NH off the track. It reminded me a lot of Jerez 97 where I didn't think JV could have made that pass stick, but both times MS takes the bait. <shakes head in disappointment>

I think the new qual format has potential, but I don't like Q2 taking place on Sunday. I thought it was anticlimatic to both qual and the race, and it was absurd having a driver's interview just before the race itself. Also with SPEED showing Q2 immediately before the race, that makes for a VERY long sitting. I think both qual sessions should be on Saturday.

I agree with Kevin, let's see what the Malaysian heat does for tire wear, Melbourne was cooler than usual and the track is not know for being abrasive so tire degradation may be a factor yet.

Great job by GF, flawless weekend for a great guy. I'd love to see him as a title contender.

Jacques, oh boy. Here we go again!

I'm impressed to see DC having an impact at Red Bull. I suspect this drive was one of those days when DC gets it all right, but even if his driving returns to a more DC-like form, I'm glad he is having such a positive impact on the team.

Final thought is that this loophole to the 2 weekend engine rule is total rubbish! We now have an incentive for drivers to pull into the garage, what a perversion of racing! :furious: The FIA must fix this immediately.

I also was left witha "what happened to Trulli?" feeling..he was P2..after the first round of pit stops he is P4 or P5 and they never explained why it happened...no coverage either..left me very confused

Trulli & his Toyota, frankly, just didn't have the pace...he was getting passed...

His very best lap was only the 14th fastest overall.........

Same with Villeneuve.........

Click on this link first: http://www.formula1.com/race/result/732/8.html

Then select the "Live Timing Archive"....when that loads, go down to the 3rd tab called "Lap Chart".....

This is a very easy snapshot of the position of each driver through the full course of the race........very instructive on many fronts.......

BriDrive

Well, I guess the live footage was a bit misleading as it was broadcast. It did look like a bonzai move from the portion that I saw, but if Heidfeld really did set Schumi up coming out of the previous corner than it is a shame to see it ending up like it did.

Everything surrounding MS is disproportionate; the praise, the hate, the coverage (even when he DNF from a middling position). It's really a sad state of affairs; he certainly has an amazing amount of talent, but sometimes I feel like F1 would be a better series without him attracting (distracting?) so much of the attention...

You know.... I don't disagree... but he has earned this attention. He is... amazing!

Yeah, you can tell the tires were doing well since most people did their best lap on lap 55. Some slowed down before that to save the engine for next race when they knew they were not going to pass or get passed. Fernando, probably had some good tire wear though from all those fights to pass.

Good Q & A with Ross Brawn...


Monday March 7th, 2005

By Luis Vasconcelos

Q. What's your opinion on Michael [Schumacher]'s accident?

Ross Brawn: We've only seen in from one camera, but the idea I got is that Michael was in the right and Nick [Heidfeld] was in the wrong. He had managed to pass Nick at the pit stops and he came from a quite reasonable distance back. It's a racing accident, but I certainly don't think it was Michael's fault.

Q. What do you think of the pace of your cars?

Brawn: It was OK. We are here [Melbourne] with the old car, which has probably been a bigger compromise because of the regulation changes, so we feel quite happy with the pace. It has been our first experience with the tyres, which was very good; we ran a good race, with a good strategy. We started with one car in 11th and one 18th and finished 2nd. So, I'm quite happy.

Q. Did you expect Renault to be so strong?

Brawn: That's what we had seen in testing; they've always been the strongest team. They've won a race last year, so they've always been a strong team. I'm not surprised, but they are a good target to go for.

Q. How good was Ruben [Barrichello]'s race?

Brawn: He had a great race. He had a problem with the brakes from lap ten, and we had to advise him to make some adjustments to the settings. Once he settled in he did a great race; he was patient, looked after his tyres, pushed when he needed to and he did a great job.

Q. Do you think the results show the current status quo?

Brawn: I think it will vary; it will depend on the track and the situation. But we were competitive today; we didn't have the fastest car but we were competitive, and the new car is a good step forward from what we have now. They were all here with their new cars, we were with our old and compromised car and we finished 2nd, so we have good reason to be optimistic. But we've got a lot of work to do.

Q. Will this result change your strategy for the debut of the F2005?

Brawn: There's the possibility of starting it in Bahrain; I've always said that. There's a lot of work to do but there's a small possibility of taking it to Bahrain; we'll make that decision after Malaysia. We'll see how the testing goes for the new car; we've got a lot more mileage to do, as we've done just one test with it, and we'll find out what problems it has. But Bahrain is a slim option, a slight possibility.

Q. MS was urging the marshals to push him. Do you think there was a delay there?

Brawn: There was a delay, but I don't think he would have scored any points anyway. He had just got into a points scoring position and he was already too delayed to get back into it. Our main concern now is that the engine may have got too hot as he sat on the gravel trap or quite a while. We'll have a careful look at all the data and see if the engine did overheat at all and do as many checks as we can. But we've got time to do that before Malaysia, but it's a legitimate thing for the marshals to push a car, it became legal a few years ago. Michael was keen to get back on track, but his car was too damaged.

Q. [David] Coulthard has been quite critical of the new qualifying format. What's your view on that?

Brawn: I think we need a couple of races to see how things are. I don't think this race was a good example, because of the weather, but I think that if in a couple of races we don't see a reasonable spectacle then things need to be considered again. We seem to be going from poor solution to another poor solution, and we should all really sit down and see what the best approach is, but let's give it a couple of races and see. Maybe it will be okay and we can have some excitement in qualifying and the race.

Q. How close a rival do you think Renault will be this year?

Brawn: Renault got in front of us; they had the fastest car today, for sure. We are pleased with the job we did, with the car we had and the package we had. I don't think we could have got a lot more out of it and it would have been interesting to see, if we were at the front of the grid or close to the front of the grid, what kind of race we could have made out of it, but Renault were quite impressive today.

McLaren didn't show in the race for some reason, but I suspect they had some problems because their car looks quite fast. They didn't seem able to put the race together; I don't know why. But we've got reasons to be optimistic; the reports we've got about the new car from our test drivers are very good, and if we can make it reliable over the next couple of weeks maybe Bahrain will be a viable option.

Q. When will you make a decision about it?

Brawn: We won't make a decision until after Malaysia. Of course it will all depend on how things will go in Malaysia, as it could swing one way or another. I think here we were a bit more competitive than we thought we would be, but if we go to Malaysia and do quite well, then that will make the decision more difficult. But if we go to Malaysia and get a few backside's kick, that will make the decision easy.

Q. How much did the new rules affect the race today?

Brawn: I think that when Michael won races from behind [in the past] was when there were some incidents that helped him get back into contention. Today the race didn't allow him to do much; I don't think that there was anything else he could have done today. There were no safety cars today, everybody had a fairly straightforward race, and I think it would have been a bit too much to ask Michael to win today. I don't think this had anything to do with the format of the event, and he was actually quite competitive. I think the format of the race will work quite well, and I think it will work even better in Malaysia, so I think we have to make a judgment of qualifying in a couple of races.

Q. The BAR drivers opted to retire on the last lap to have fresh engines in Malaysia. What do you think of it?

Brawn: I didn't notice that. Did they? That's their option, and no new format is perfect. But if we believe the new format is the way forward we need to smooth all the small glitches that there may be. I think people will be willing to do that, and if there's a situation where people take advantage of the rules, that's their choice. We'll see how it will go, but that was their prerogative. If they chose to stop others can do the same on the next race.

This is a supposed video of the incident:
http://videofiles1.f1gp.ru/1123456/05/melbourne/melb05_r7.avi

I say supposed because I apparently don't have the necessary codec to view it. Anyone know what it is? I have DIVX installed...

Michael, make a mistake? No way!;) I understand that you need to stand behind your team, but when it's that obvious(that MS deliberately went to block NH) it's hard to say that it isn't his fault. Fact is, Nick had a line on Michael, Michael didn't like that so he shut the door(and ultimately, paid for it).

BTW, the Ferrari will be very competitive come. The new Ferrari will be a front runner.



Mika

Here's what windows media player tells me about the clip:

Audio codec: MPEG Layer-3 Decoder
Video codec: Nero Video Decoder

Nice clip, btw. Has the real-time footage and a couple replays from different angles.

Nero decoder, eh? Have to see if I can find that.

Did anyone notice how incredibly long after each turn it took a driver to get back on the throttle? I haven't watched F1 in a while. They had a lot of in-car coverage and it seemed that the cars would coast through and well past the apex of a turn before getting on the throttle again.

Is it because the risk of lighting up the tires is too great by getting on the throttle earlier?

I'm sure they just backed off on the traction control.

I'm sure they just backed off on the traction control.
Even so, in most forms of racing, you try to get on the throttle as early as you can so that you're under power through the apex, even if it's only a little. There's a steady, progressive application of throttle.

With these cars, it seemed like there was absolute apprehension to touch the throttle unless the car was almost completely straight at which point it was nearly floored. I just wonder if there's so much sensitivity in the throttle that it's difficult to control it's application in the face of bumps and g-forces through the turn.

Meh. Just curious to see if anyone had any insights.

It probably had more to do with rear tire preservation than anything else.....
BriDrive

It probably had more to do with rear tire preservation than anything else.....
BriDrive
Yeah. I forgot about that aspect.

Yeah, that is why they backed off the traction control.

I did'nt notice any difference in corner exit throttle app. I am sure less grip would delay the use of the loud pedal a bit.

Would'nt Backing TC off allow more wheel spin. I did here them talk about diff TC settings for wet or dry conditions.

Sorry, backed off the aggressiveness of the traction control. ie, even less wheel spin.

Matt Bishop, a writer for Autosport and editor of F1 Racing magazine wrote a pretty funny "review" of the first race.

Ferrari

Stop press: Michael Schumacher didn't win the Australian Grand Prix. Neither, for that matter, did he at any moment look like doing so. But only a fool would be writing-off Schumi, or the red cars, so early in the season, right?

Yes, right; even so, if you were to conduct a vox pop in a Maranello café right now (or do something similar in Bar Italia, in London's Frith Street, as I did on the evening of March 8, albeit very informally and somewhat drunkenly), then you'd know that tifosi, everywhere, are very worried indeed.

But perhaps they shouldn't be. After all, despite the long-preached Todt-ite credo which would have us all believe that there is only one god, the faithful understand that two Ferraris enter every grand prix, not only Michael's; and the other one, driven by a God- (but not god-) fearing man, Rubens Barrichello, finished the 2005 Australian Grand Prix in second place, despite having lined up only 11th on the starting grid. Furthermore, Ferrari's 2005 car has yet to race, and there's no reason to doubt Ross Brawn's claim that it's the best the Scuderia has ever produced.

And Schumi? He had the kind of race he usually has at the end of a season rather than at the beginning - a ragged run from the back to somewhere around the midfield, finally tangling with a blameless rival (Nick Heidfeld) whom he thought should have given way to him as if by divine right. Frankly, I'm surprised he wasn't black-flagged. (Yes, that was a joke; that isn't how Formula 1 works, as you probably know.)

B.A.R-Honda

Very disappointing indeed. Bluntly, they were off the pace, and Jenson Button's post-race mood said it all. Even so, there was surely no need for him to tell such a blatant porkie to ITV's Louise Goodman when she asked him why both he and his team-mate, Takuma Sato, had pulled off on the slowing-down lap - thereby, under the ludicrous regulations under which F1 is currently 'run' (David Coulthard, no longer constrained by McLaren's all-controlling PR machine, used the word "s**t" to describe them), guaranteeing themselves fresh engines for Malaysia. "We had a problem," said Button, then appeared to get the hump when Louise refused to believe him. What utter cant!

Five minutes later, ITV viewers saw team boss Nick Fry unequivocally admit that the thing had been a ruse. Come on, Jenson; the British public deserve better than that, and so does Louise.

Renault

Now you're talking! As regular readers of this column (and of F1 Racing, which magazine I've edited since 1996) will not need reminding, I've long been a champion of the once-largely-unsung abilities of Giancarlo Fisichella; I was therefore neither surprised nor able to contain my delight when he crossed the line to win the 2005 Australian Grand Prix. As Eddie Jordan (bless 'im) used to say on as many occasions as he could find reason to, "F**k the begrudgers!" Or, lest I frighten the horses (or, rather, the colts and fillies) on a website which is read by so many teenaged F1 fans, "I told you so!"

Fisico will win again this year, as will team-mate Fernando Alonso. Their personal battle will be one of the highlights of the season.

McLaren-Mercedes

Another fascinating battle will be that fought out between McLaren's two megastars, which is why I've decided to deal with the Woking boys before the Grove chaps, in contradiction of the rubrik to which this article has been set out (ie, in 2004 constructors' championship order).

'Honours' (such as they were) were about even in Melbourne, for neither man shone. Kimi Raikkonen's progress from a stall that caused the first start to be aborted to eighth at the flag, and Juan Pablo Montoya's unforced error that converted a likely second place to sixth by the end, were described by Ron Dennis as "not the way to go motor racing".

Well, quite. But don't be surprised to see both men bounce back - perhaps as early as Malaysia. The MP4-20 is not only beautiful; it's very quick, too. And the advantage conferred to McLaren by their being the sole 'big team' allowed to run a third car on grand prix Fridays - especially when that car is tweaked so as to accommodate the frame of the world's best (and quickest) test driver, Alex Wurz - will be considerable. Expect wins, and plenty of 'em, from both JPM and the Kimster, throughout the year.

BMW-Williams

Good in parts - or, rather, much better than feared. No-one at Grove will be satisfied with having come away from Australia with just four constructors' championship points (courtesy of Mark Webber's gritty drive to fifth), but Patrick Head and Sam Michael both told me, when I spoke to them in the Albert Park pit lane on Thursday afternoon, that they're much happier with the FW27 than they were with the FW26 at this stage last season. Yes, it has problems; equally, they think they know how to fix them.

As I wrote in this place last week, Williams will get there - and both drivers will score points (yes, and podiums) regularly in 2005. The championship(s)? Not this year, sorry, no.

Sauber-Petronas

As usual, Sauber have built a very pretty car - and, as usual, it will figure in the upper reaches of the midfield all year. The trouble, entirely predictably, will be the drivers. Felipe Massa is quick enough, but he's still a bit wild; by (partial) contrast, Jacques Villeneuve manages to be slow and wild (not a good combination for a racing driver, by anyone's lights). He reminds me of late-vintage Jean-Pierre Jarier.

So...listen up, ol' Pete. When you get back to Hinwil, get out your copy of JV's contract and start reading. If you can find a clause that says he should be other than slow, and/or other than wild, then bite the bullet and get rid now. In his place, hire Davidson or Wurz or any one of half a dozen other more deserving (and quicker, and less wild) cases. You (now) know it makes sense.

Red Bull Racing

So far, RBR have been the surprise of the season. And, since in this place some weeks ago I urged Coulthard to retire rather than risk eroding the equity of his personal brand on what appeared likely to be a bit of a joke team, I'm happy to eat humble pie. (Well, after having crowed, "I told you so!" about Fisi, I have no choice when I'm shown to have been wrong, do I?!)

No; DC drove an excellent race in Australia, no doubt about it. And if he can keep up that kind of form all year, he'll actually improve the equity of his personal brand, not erode it.

Okay, he's unlikely to be able to repeat his Melbourne form too often this year - undoubtedly, the weather helped him in qualifying - but it looks like there's nothing much wrong with the Jaguar R6, does it? Which rather begs the question: why sack the men who created, designed and built it, simply because you've re-christened it the Red Bull Racing RB1? Tony Purnell (ex-team principal), Dave Pitchforth (ex-managing director), Ian Pocock (ex-director of engineering) and Chris Hammond (ex-head of vehicle science) must all have very mixed feelings right now: justifiably proud of their handiwork... but gutted and confused as to why they were so unceremoniously given the heave-ho.

Let's hope that 31-year-old 'boss' Christian Horner, ex-Ford Rally (and, briefly, ex-Jaguar Racing) technical administrator Guenther Steiner, ex-Jordan/ex-Renault designer Mark Smith and ex-Ferrari/ex-McLaren R&D executive Anton Stipinovich can keep up the highly encouraging performance levels demonstrated in Australia by the car created by their deposed predecessors... and that Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz's mysterious eminence grise, Helmut Marko, allows them to.

Toyota

Oh dear. Not good. Not even a freak front-row grid slot - the result of one-lap qualifying ("I think it's s**t," said DC, warming to his new theme) and a dry spell between torrential showers - was enough to enable Jarno Trulli to score points in the hugely disappointing 2005 Toyota... while Ralf tugged his way from 15th on the grid to 12th at the finish. Come on, is Ralfie-boy really worth US$18 million a year, Mr Howett?

F1 insiders are fond of saying that Toyota's new(ish) technical director, Mike Gascoyne, is under enormous pressure. Well, I don't agree. Any engineer who's on a guaranteed four-year deal worth US$32 million, and who will collect the entire sum whether he lasts the course or not, is under no pressure at all! But then perhaps that's the problem.

No, the man under pressure is Toyota's motorsport president John Howett, the chap whose task it was to hire both Gascoyne and Schumi Jnr. And that's a shame, because he's an extremely nice, very intelligent and fantastically hard-working bloke; but if his mega-bucks signings don't turn things around very quickly indeed...

Jordan

A bit of a shambles. Okay, Narain Karthiheyan may have split Barrichello and Alonso on the starting grid, but he finished only 15th, two laps down on Fisichella. Nonetheless, it was a workmanlike debut, for he achieved both his (unstated) aims: (1) to finish the race, and (2) to beat his team-mate, Tiago Monteiro (16th).

Since the team's 2005 car is merely a development of last year's Jordan-Ford, and since its new Toyota engine appears to be extremely reliable, Australia 2005 is probably a reasonably accurate barometer of what we can expect from this once-very-competitive
team over the next 18 grands prix.

Minardi

They got one car to the finish, albeit four laps down on Fisichella. Not good. But, as far as Paul Stoddart was concerned, Melbourne 2005 was all about politics, not racing. His made his point, demonstrating to the satisfaction of the Victorian Supreme Court that the FIA's implementation of F1's latest rule changes may not have been as rigorously superintended as Max Mosley and his cronies insist we should all believe... but I wouldn't be surprised if, in so doing, Stoddy has signed his own death warrant.

The 1983 Labour Party manifesto was once described by that moderate Labour veteran, Gerald Kaufman, as "the longest suicide note in history"; if you've read the lengthy correspondence between Stoddart and Mosley (astonishingly, the FIA president has decided to reveal its every sentence, and you can check it out even now on the FIA's official website), then I think you might be forced to agree that that lefty firebrand Michael Foot (the Labour leader 22 years ago) now has a rival in F1's unofficial shop steward.

Personally, though, I hope not, for Stoddy is good company, street-wise and courageous. Moreover, as long as he manages not to fall in love with the political limelight (a danger, as his flagrant courting of local Aussie media in Melbourne last weekend made plain), he can play a useful role in shaping the future of a sport that in many ways is in a bad way, by stoutly questioning Mosley's (and Ecclestone's) more autocratic and ill-considered initiatives. Just as important, Stoddy adds a splash of colour to the otherwise too-grey (make that too-anthracite) world of 2005-model-year grand prix racing.

But, the F1 'piranha club' being what it is, he'll probably be (M)axed sooner rather than later.

Good 'ere, innit?

Great read, thanks!

I missed It!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought they would replay it on sunday at 9:00 pm mst LIKE USUAL, I guess "SPEED" has it's head up NASCAR'S butt again. the road race was kinda cool though in Mexico. Good to see Boris showin' em how its done.

Anyway, does anyone know if they will replay Australia? I'm pissed here. :mad:

They replayed it that afternoon, which was good because my DVR b0rked during the live run.

Sorry, but I don't think they'll be replaying it again later.

That's ok, I'll just wait 10 years until it's on F1 decade :rolleyes: