Subaru.com finally premium [Archive]

Jon [in CT]

03-03-2005, 04:34 PM

SOA just issued a press release about their new website at http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/DotNet/Newsroom/ViewAttachment.aspx?SiteName=Subaru&Entity=PRAsset&AttachmentType=F&EntityID=96624&AttachmentID=2b79a228-380b-41d1-a3d3-e54e03805323: Subaru of America, Inc. Launches Lastest Version of Subaru.com

-- Company taps R/GA to enhance the Subaru customer purchase and ownership experience --

CHERRY HILL, N.J., March 3, 2005, -- Subaru of America, Inc. today launched the latest redesign of its website, www.Subaru.com. Last year, the company began working with R/GA, a New York-based interactive agency to enhance the Subaru customer purchase and ownership experience online.

“As we broaden the appeal and bolster the Subaru brand image nationwide, it is imperative that we continue to enhance the Subaru purchase and ownership experience particularly online,” said Rick Crosson, Vice President of Marketing, Subaru of America, Inc. “The new Subaru.com is a highly immersive site that focuses on the customer experience and we are pleased with the results that R/GA delivered.”

Visually, consumers are now greeted with an elegant site that invites them to explore the Subaru experience. Original photography and animation further conveys the Subaru brand appeal by emphasizing the style and design of its vehicles. Some of the key changes that resulted in a more streamlined experience included the redesign of research tools and navigation to accommodate different customer needs throughout the decision-making process. For example, the financial and shopping tools were aligned under one section to provide a unified navigation system that gives consumers quick and intuitive access to request quotes, locate dealerships and view available inventory.

“We are honored to be chosen by Subaru as their interactive agency of record,” said Bob Greenberg, Chairman, CEO and Chief Creative Officer at R/GA. “This is an exciting time to collaborate with Subaru as the brand grows and strengthens among its many loyal owners, as well as customers who may be shopping Subaru for the first time.”

In addition to redesigning Subaru.com, R/GA recently created an interactive campaign to promote the launch of the all-new 2006 Subaru B9 Tribeca. The new flagship of the Subaru brand, the Subaru B9 Tribeca is a progressive SUV and the first-ever Subaru with available seating for seven. The campaign includes a mini-site (www.b9tribeca.com) with original photography art directed by R/GA, online advertising including a just-unveiled Subaru B9 Tribeca sweepstakes, and traveling interactive kiosks to help capture customer opt-ins across the nation’s major auto shows.

About R/GA
R/GA (www.rga.com) is the New York-based interactive advertising agency that serves as the lead digital partner for Fortune 500 companies and world-class brands. R/GA focuses on creating optimized, user-centric experiences that sell products, engage customers and build brands across channels, from the Web to broadband/enhanced television and wireless devices. Founded in 1977, R/GA is the world's most award-winning interactive agency and has received the top creative awards for film, broadcast and interactive.

About Subaru of America, Inc.
Subaru of America, Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. of Japan. Headquartered in Cherry Hill, N.J., the company markets and distributes all-wheel drive Subaru vehicles, parts and accessories through a network of nearly 600 dealers across the United States. Subaru is the only car company that features Symmetrical All-Wheel drive as standard equipment on every vehicle in its product line. For additional information visit www.subaru.com.

WagonMonster

03-03-2005, 05:01 PM

Way way way too much flash. So 1990s.

I wish a painful death for anyone who uses flash for anything beyond animations. Menus are bad enough, whole sites are just plain awful.
Exactly...

As someone who makes websites for a living, I have to say that all-flash sites reek of amateurism.

WRXVT

03-03-2005, 05:08 PM

Exactly...

As someone who makes websites for a living, I have to say that all-flash sites reek of amateurism.

I like the subaru site though... its much better than before. Besides I would also say that car websites in general are allowed to have a bit more flash than most other websites (for example a university or corporate website)

Jon [in CT]

03-03-2005, 05:21 PM

Only folKs with broadband access could like such a website, but everyone with dial-up will hate it. Does Subaru somehow believe all potential buyers who visit its website for information have broadband internet access?

sasquatch95

03-03-2005, 05:25 PM

']Only folKs with broadband access could like such a website, but everyone with dial-up will hate it. Does Subaru somehow believe all potential buyers who visit its website for information have broadband internet access?
I guess they figure if you don't have broadband you couldn't afford a "premium" vehicle and have no business viewing their site.

BigElm

03-03-2005, 06:05 PM

Regardless of the flashes... it's still a step up from where they were. Maybe you should see it that way :p

ckcook

03-03-2005, 06:31 PM

What the correlation between the use of Flash and people's ability to view a site with a dialup connection?

NeoteriX

03-03-2005, 06:47 PM

Flash is ritzy and fancy, and hence takes more time to download as opposed to straight up HTML.

only1agam

03-03-2005, 07:15 PM

the site is truly beautiful..finally a step in the premiumm direction. its funny its got a premium look to it yet still has an active touch

Nonz3ro

03-03-2005, 07:31 PM

Better site... better buisness... more buisness, more money, more money, more money going into the sti division...

Im fine with that.

bull3964

03-03-2005, 07:35 PM

Two words

WHITE SPACE.

I didn't buy a $400 monitor for a site to arbitarly decide that I'm only allowed to use a portion of it. Sites that do not scale with window size are basic bad design.

Jon [in CT]

03-03-2005, 08:52 PM

What the correlation between the use of Flash and people's ability to view a site with a dialup connection?Maybe it's the number of bytes sent? I just opened the subaru.com home page for the first time with IE on a dialup and timed how long it took to complete the loading of that page - 3 minutes and 40 seconds.

WRSport

03-03-2005, 09:00 PM

100% idiotic excessive usage of flash.

Kiss any future sales from non broadband users shopping for a new vehicle away.

Its crap like this when people need to start looking at who is making these decisions.
20-30 year olds in marketing seem to love making this excessive flash mistake over and over and over at nauseum.

Dumb move subaru.

nimaxpro

03-03-2005, 09:14 PM

bah....must be ricers working at SOA....

WRXVT

03-03-2005, 10:33 PM

subarustan

03-04-2005, 02:38 AM

wow, impressive site. Also taken away by the amount of people who are still not on highspeed internet in the States.

Kuro

03-04-2005, 03:13 AM

What's with the ugly POS gray streaked background?

bob655

03-04-2005, 03:25 AM

Doesn't seem any more premium than say http://www.fordvehicles.com/

dl337j00

03-04-2005, 05:04 AM

honestly, grow up ppl... a multimillion dollar company's decision to "spiff up" its site will have little to do with their ability to sell cars. anyone who is bumming around with dialup, your opinion should mean nothing to market analysts. not to sound condesending or anything, but its business.

when the average dude who is 'settling' for dialup cause he cant afford highspeed, goes to subaru.com... and it takes him 5 minutes to load the page, hes going to be angry at the fact that he has crappy internet access, not subaru cause they make crappy cars.

in the eyes of a market research team, when they push technology (high bandwidth sites) that forces ppl to upgrade (survival of the fittest, if you will). how does this involve subaru? everybody knows that technology is a race, every company is trying to keep up. subconsciously, ppl will be viewing Subaru as a contender of this race. its simple psychology (common sense even). i know that when im shopping for a car, im not going to each site, and measuring how quick it loads to determine what car im going to buy.

Two words

WHITE SPACE.

I didn't buy a $400 monitor for a site to arbitarly decide that I'm only allowed to use a portion of it. Sites that do not scale with window size are basic bad design.

you speak like you have the legal right to use the full portion of your monitor. honestly, nobody cares. cry about how much money you wasted on a crappy monitor, not some site that you dont own, and has NOTHING to do with your life.

Jon [in CT]

03-04-2005, 09:15 AM

bull3964

03-04-2005, 09:30 AM

you speak like you have the legal right to use the full portion of your monitor. honestly, nobody cares. cry about how much money you wasted on a crappy monitor, not some site that you dont own, and has NOTHING to do with your life.

It's bad web design, period. Subaru's website doesn't look premium to me. It looks like they hired the lowest bidder for a weekend job of shoving the content into a Studio MX template. Really lazy and cheap.

WRXVT

03-04-2005, 10:12 AM

It's bad web design, period. Subaru's website doesn't look premium to me. It looks like they hired the lowest bidder for a weekend job of shoving the content into a Studio MX template. Really lazy and cheap.

Do you think audi's site is premium?

bull3964

03-04-2005, 11:06 AM

Do you think audi's site is premium?

It's just about as bad. Most carmakers have crap for websites. They let their marketing department run things rather than actual web designers and the result is flashy animated crap that's a chore to use. Car websites seem to always be 5 years behind the times.

Also, there's not such thing as a "premium" website. Make it attractive looking and easy to navigate and that's about as premium as you can make it. Stuffing it full flash content with metalish textures does not make it premium.

The biggest thing I hate about subaru's website is all the animation. From the moment you are at the first page, even after the thing loads you have to wait for it to do all the little animations before you can even use it. Not only that, but it's reminiscent of a Geocities page with 500 animated gifs. First the subaru logo does a little flash, then the name, then the text goes in one letter at a time, the dealer locater does a flash, the menu fills in one item at a time, then they do that little ripple thing over the whole image. The only thing that's missing is a looping midi in the background. This seems like a kid who's using powerpoint for the first time, jam every animation you possibly can in.

Then, after that is loaded, drill down all the way to a specific trim of a model. OOPS no way switch trim levels without using the back button. Now you have to wait for the trim animation to populate the menu again.

Animations can be ok for a first visit to set an impression, but constantly throwing them in a user's face as they navigate the website just makes it a chore to use. If I click on the subaru logo to get to the main page after I've already been navigating the site, it should just appear and not go through the whole opening animation again. If I click back to get back to a previous page, I shouldn't have to wait for the menus to populate again.

ckcook

03-04-2005, 11:14 AM

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that the use of Flash on a website or its use of monitor real estate can automatically equal bad design.

To know if this version of Subaru.com is good or bad, you'd have to know what SoA's goals are for the site. If this site acheives the objectives of its owner, then it, by definition, must be good design.

Does Flash equal bad design? I don't think so. MINI does a great job with Flash. I certainly think that the danger with Flash is that it's a technology that is easy to go overboard with. Many Flash applications seem to be over ladden with big images that take a long time to load, but it's not the technology. Ultimately Flash is neither good or bad; it's all in how you use it.

As for white space, it's often very valuable. When you fill up every pixel of a page with content, it's difficult for many people to understand what they're supposed to pay attention to.

Without knowing what they are trying to do, I think the site is good. I think it's better than the old site. Is it the best automotive site out there? Nope. But hey, it's a step in the right direction.

Catsmeow

03-04-2005, 11:24 AM

']"The simple truth is that there are more dial-up users in the US than broadband users. And the ratio of dial-up to broadband increases the farther one is from a city. Subaru's market share has always been highest in rural states .."

When it becomes extremely difficult to navigate a website because it takes forever to load pages, regardless of whether the reason is graphics or animation or slow transmission speed, visitors become frustrated and annoyed, some even to the point of abandoning the attempt.
Ditto.

I live in rural western Pennsylvania where there are plenty of Subarus (mostly Outback Wagons) and no broadband. Use of a high-speed internet connection and driving a Subaru ARE NOT related. If broadband use were a prerequisite to ownership, SOA would risk losing dozens of loyal customers in my immediate area.

Regarding Subaru's (USA) redesigned website, the changes appear to be cosmetic, not substantive. The site's content is basically the same as before.

If you wish to see a Subaru website done right, visit one of Subaru Canada's specialized microsites. Great presentations, even better content and well worth the wait even if you use dial-up. :cool:

(The one and only improvement that comes to mind for SOC's microsites would be the ability to save the entire Flash presentation as a projector file to archive for off-line viewing.)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-2/952747/legacy.jpg (http://www.subarulegacy.ca/)

Click image to visit Subaru Canada's Legacy microsite.

DGoReck

03-04-2005, 11:57 AM

You guys should visit other car manufacturer websites. It seems all of them use extensive flash and high qualitty(large file size) graphics. People want to see the 3D models of the cars they can rotate, and zoom in and out of the car. Static pics are meaningless. http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2005/tundra/ext360.html Pretty cool if you ask me.

SoDealer

03-04-2005, 12:09 PM

rsholland

03-04-2005, 12:18 PM

Oh my gosh quit griping people...It seems we have people who are adverse to change...Nevermind that the previous Subaru site used extensive Flash as well...I think it's a pretty good site (from someone who designs websites, logos, and PowerPoint templates)

The best subaru site is http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/bt/index_f.html ...it's worth checking out

Yep, it's a much classier site than before, and more in keeping with their image.

Bob

Zola

03-04-2005, 12:20 PM

I don't have anything new to add, other than that previous comments lambasting Subaru for poor web design and excessive use of Flash are 100% spot on.

Sigh.

Jon [in CT]

03-04-2005, 12:46 PM

I think Porsche's North America website (http://www2.us.porsche.com/usa/) is an example of a clean, elegant and informative site. You can go directly from the homepage to the page you want, and yet there's no clutter. And the lack of flash animation doesn't diminish Porsche's reputation one iota.

This is as far as you'll get if you show up at www.subaru.com without flash:
http://www.subaru.com/home_noflash.html

bull3964

03-04-2005, 01:00 PM

SoDealer

03-04-2005, 01:00 PM

']I think Porsche's North America website (http://www2.us.porsche.com/usa/) is an example of a clean, elegant and informative site. You can go directly from the homepage to the page you want, and yet there's no clutter. And the lack of flash animation doesn't diminish Porsche's reputation one iota.

This is as far as you'll get if you show up at www.subaru.com without flash:
http://www.subaru.com/home_noflash.html

clean and simple yes...modern and progressive no. Porsche's site borders on boring. Unlike Subaru, Porsche doesn't need it's site to be as emotionally stimulating. Everyone knows what a Porsche is. If I was buying a Porsche, the only reason I'd be on their site would be to find out where the nearest dealership is.

In contrast, Subaru has a different type of customer. They are beginning to appeal to people who either have no clue about Subarus or tend to group them with the likes of other small Asian manufacturers (Suzuki, Isuzu, Hyundia, and Kia). They really need to be assured that they are buying a "Premium" automobile.

And for most automobile companies, the internet is much more than just an informative tool...for a car company its a virtual showroom as well. And for the record...this site isn't 100% flash...more like 50% size wise. Just the home page and the top half of most of the subsequent pages are flash intensive. It is using about as much flash as the previous site. Also...based on average resolution of browsers...this site is correct in size (even though I run my resolution at 1600x1200, the majority of people who have had to look at my screen for whatever reason complain to no end about how small things are. 1024x768 - 1280 x1024 is normal. No this site isn't perfect...but it's a bold step forward for a frist introdution to Subaru, or for a repeat visit to the site. It's dynamic, engaging, easy to navigate, and pleasing to the eye. For someone who has dial-up...it's worth the wait ;).

rsholland

03-04-2005, 01:06 PM

like anything else, can be good or bad. It's just another tool in the web designer's arsenal. It's all up to the talent of the designer, and if it's approporate for the situation at hand. I don't have a problem with Flash per say, as I've seen both good and bad examples.

If it enhances the message then it's good. If, on the other hand, it interferes or overpowers the message, then it's bad.

Bob

Eyeflyistheeye

03-04-2005, 04:00 PM

The car descriptions are hokey-sounding (not to mention with extremely questionable grammar) and not the kind of thing that would give a BMW or Audi owner the impression of a brand on the same level as theirs.

"250-hp turbocharged all-wheel-drive sophisticated sedan" :huh:

I wish Subaru.com would have looked like this- this design is absolutely brilliant, IMHO.

http://www.melbourne.subaru.com.au/

phlacoe

03-04-2005, 04:20 PM

I don't like it when there's excessive special effects (I.E. waves across the screen, flashing light, etc...) It makes it confusing and hard to navigate.

Otherwise, I like the new color scheme.

team_orion

03-04-2005, 05:43 PM

WagonMonster

03-04-2005, 05:45 PM

How many people here actually build or design websites for a living?

Because there's some really retarded comments in this thread.

nick04263

03-04-2005, 06:13 PM

I just can't wait until the 06's are posted instead of the 05 models.

Jon [in CT]

03-04-2005, 07:02 PM

clean and simple yes...modern and progressive no. Porsche's site borders on boring. SoDealer, what do you feel when you visit the Subaru of Dallas (http://www.subaruofdallas.com) homepage? I would hope (after you've deleted its popup), embarassment. That page has "premium" written all over it. I bet it was created by someone who makes their living as a webpage designer and consultant.

BTW, it's a "slow loader" too thanks to the worthless flash stuff embedded.

rsholland

03-04-2005, 07:09 PM

']SoDealer, what do you feel when you visit the Subaru of Dallas (http://www.subaruofdallas.com) homepage? I would hope (after you've deleted its popup), embarassment. That page has "premium" written all over it. I bet it was created by someone who makes their living as a webpage designer and consultant.

BTW, it's a "slow loader" too thanks to the worthless flash stuff embedded.

I don't see "premium" written all over it. I see "tacky" written all over it.

Bob

jester5

03-04-2005, 07:18 PM

very nice!

-Jeff

SoDealer

03-04-2005, 08:47 PM

']SoDealer, what do you feel when you visit the Subaru of Dallas (http://www.subaruofdallas.com) homepage? I would hope (after you've deleted its popup), embarassment. That page has "premium" written all over it. I bet it was created by someone who makes their living as a webpage designer and consultant.

BTW, it's a "slow loader" too thanks to the worthless flash stuff embedded.

I think it's cluttered and unnapealing...that being said...an outside company handles all of the local sites...atleast in this region.

WRSport

03-04-2005, 09:14 PM

If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem. There seems to be a lot of "experts" on here that are very passionate about the new site. My suggestion instead of complaints (these are complaints not constructive criticisms) I think maybe some of you need to build a ghost site and submit it to them as to what you think should be done. If your not concerned enough to show them how it "should look" then maybe it's time you took a deep breathe and let others that enjoy the site the opportunity to do so.

I am not saying I like or dislike the new site but complaints seldom get anything accomplished in the marketing world. Designers are always and should be open to criticism but whining won't even get you a nipple.

Yeah yeah yeah. You really want us to write up an alternate design proposal?
Why should I waste my time? There isnt much to say other than slap the marketing people into reality. They ask for this stuff and the content devs deliver it.

Look I've battled this flash issue/heavy overloaded site design at every company Ive worked out. WITHOUT fail my advice has been ignored and each and everytime my predictions has become true. Hits falloff the map and we end up bringing in a $$$$ specialist to assess the design. Said specialist then tells them exactly what I was saying from day one, the site gets redesigned to a less bloated nature and we move on.

I'm battling this EXACT issue this week for our new site which is launching....Guess what mistake they are doing this time? After my complaints on the proposed design were voiced, this time we brought in a specialist right away and what did he say? Wholly overly bloated flash design batman!

I swear some of these great younggun content developers out there need to assess the target market before making these HUGE bloated flash designs. I must say it's also usually not the designers fault. Its Marketing people asking for this stuff and not using there brain. They really tend to forget about the non broadband enabled. For some products and services out there sure, this is an acceptable tradeoff. For a struggling japanese automaker, I dont think they can afford to allienate potential customers.

DGoReck

03-07-2005, 09:47 AM

I think the site has come a long way since Decemeber 28, 1996....

http://web.archive.org/web/19961228024612/http://www.subaru.com/

rsholland

03-07-2005, 09:54 AM

I think the site has come a long way since Decemeber 28, 1996....

http://web.archive.org/web/19961228024612/http://www.subaru.com/

Boy, does that put it in perspective! Nice find. :)

Bob

03-07-2005, 10:17 AM

To the following people, please link us to what you have developed. If you're so mad at the site, that Subaru is doing something different, show us what YOU have made if you all think you're perfectionists and the end-all be all of designers. Wait... all designers think this way! :lol:

bull3964
WagonMonster (I know your problem...)
WRSport
nimaxpro
Kuro
Zola

I'm not singleing out Jon in this list, he's stuck to the fact that it's a dialup vs Boradband issue, and has repeatedly re-iterated that other than saying 'This is crap, too much flash yadda...'

My answer to that is... How many family people out there don't work where there's internet access? Hell, most people I know, families or singles, do most of their surfing at work, during lunch and whatnot. Sure there are some companies that put their internet on lock-down, but that's not as many people as you'd think.

Add up the people that use company bandwidth, and those that have Broadband (Cable or DSL or Dish) And I'm willing to be you'd have a higher percentage of people.

Subaru is moving upscale. Their target demographic is starting to be professionals. Those professionals don't work the Sales Floor at Best Buy or work stocking the isles at a grocery store. They're in an office, behind a computer, and homeowners... in neighboroods near cities, (Highly populated areas). That's where there's the bulk of the purchasing power.

Those in the fringes of society, who have dial up, are in the minority of those that will buy a Subaru BASED ON A WEB SITE. They KNOW already what Subaru is. Subaru owns their souls already.

So designers being designers will complain and gripe about 'this not being perfect' and 'that's not right', and 'I could have done it better'

To which I have to say: Why didn't you bid on the redesign? WHy didn't you TRY to do it?

You guys remind me of the non-conformists in highschool... who look like everyone else that were trying to be 'unique'.

--kC
(I bet you all own Macs too) :p

rsholland

03-07-2005, 11:00 AM

(I bet you all own Macs too) :p

Yep, well at least I do. If you're a "designer," it's the industry standard. :D

Bob

bull3964

03-07-2005, 11:34 AM

To the following people, please link us to what you have developed. If you're so mad at the site, that Subaru is doing something different, show us what YOU have made if you all think you're perfectionists and the end-all be all of designers. Wait... all designers think this way! :lol:

Please point out where I ever said that I designed web sites for a living.

I don't. But that doesn't mean I haven't had significant education on the subject nor exposure to people that have that task as their primary job. Hell, I did my thesis on usability of computer interfaces. Besides, an expert eye is not needed to point out things that annoy the hell out of you.

I'll remember this post the next time you point out anything negative about anything. Don't like a feature on a car? Well you best point out the cars that you have built. Dislike a tire? Well, show me some examples of vulcanized rubber goodness that you have concocted in your back yard.

Please also point out how subaru is doing anything different. This is the exact same content they've always had on the site repackaged in a new layout that's neither innovative nor incredibly usable.

Here, have a read on usability.

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/us-cranky1.html

Also, to your browse at work assertion, good luck if flash isn't installed and the user doesn't have significant access permissions to install it!

When you require a specific version of a browser, or a specific feature, you are telling all the people who don't have it, for whatever reason, that you don't want their business, you don't have anything to say to them, and you don't care. Is this ever something you want to say?

03-07-2005, 12:02 PM

If people are really interested in buying a Subaru, do you really think their website will turn them away?

From that article:
When you require a specific version of a browser, or a specific feature, you are telling all the people who don't have it, for whatever reason, that you don't want their business, you don't have anything to say to them, and you don't care. Is this ever something you want to say?

Yep. It is actually when your webpage is an extension, not a replacement, of your advertising. It's all about image. Sure you can create a Dynamic page (Like the Porsche Site) that is usable, but SOA didn't want that. You can create a page that is just black and white text... THAT will please everyone right? Afterall, everyone will be able to use it. But gone is the Image that SOA wanted to convey to their targets audience.

You want to talk usability right? OK, I'll bite... You have your thesis done in it. how is the new site wrong? (Bypassing that it's in flash and there are some purists that do not like flash) I can find the information I want within 3-4 clicks. Is that too much?

You didn't say anything in your above resonse on the WHY you don't like it.. just that you don't.

I don't like the site.
Why?
I've had significant education on the subject & exposure to people that have that task as their primary job.

That still doesn't tell anyone why.
Let's try that again...

I don't like the site.
Why?
I did my thesis on usability of computer interfaces.

Good for you... you're still avoiding the issue on explaining why you don't like the new site (other than 'It's done in flash')

Take 3?
I don't like the site.
Why?
This is the exact same content they've always had on the site repackaged in a new layout that's neither innovative nor incredibly usable.

Yeah, we got that... you're reiterating that it's not innovate or usable. Again... WHY is the stuff not usable? You're the expert, yet you took up a few paragraphs to repeat what you've sead time and time again.. "It's Not useable". However, backing it up with "I have eduaction and I work with people" doesn't answer what I've been asking... WHY do you think it's unusable?

I can navigate around, find what I need within a few clicks. It's actually is easier than the site it replaces. Yes, it's in flash... I'm above the curve when it comes to the 'average' user too.. so it may come easey to me.

But I also don't see where someone would not buy a Subaru BECAUSE the site is in Flash.

--kC

WRXVT

03-07-2005, 12:09 PM

I like the flash on that site.. I like flash in general on car sites. It shows off the car better, much like an interactive commercial. Many/most car sites have flash because of that reason.

WagonMonster

03-07-2005, 12:46 PM

Dear KC...

like WRSport said, I'm not going to spend the extensive time and resources neccessary to build an "alternate" site, that Subaru will never even look at, just to prove my point. All I'm trying to say is that I've been in this business long enough to see the glaring problems with the Subaru Site.

Translation: Dear KC, huff a dong, you're just cranky because we won't make you a Motorsports Moderator :p

team_orion

03-07-2005, 12:52 PM

Yeah yeah yeah. You really want us to write up an alternate design proposal?
Why should I waste my time? There isnt much to say other than slap the marketing people into reality. They ask for this stuff and the content devs deliver it..

I don't want anyone to do anything that they are obviousely incapable of doing.

In the end who's time has actually been wasted?

bull3964

03-07-2005, 01:01 PM

I already posted specifically WHY I didn't like it and WHY if felt the usability suffered.

I don't know why I have to put aside that it's in flash for one. Flash navigation IS a usability problem. If I wanted to compare two models, I can't right click and open in a new window or middle click and open in a new tab. I have to open a new browser window or tab myself and either cut and paste the address in or start navigating fresh from the front page in the new window.

Forcing someone to sit though the same animations over and over again as they browse is annoying. As a corollary to the animations, they perform poorly on my work PC which is a P3 600. Granted it's nowhere near top of the line, but it is representative of a computer that is out there for people who don't upgrade every year. This wouldn't be a problem if the animations were confined to multimedia content like explaining how the AWD works, but they are present in the basic navigation of the site.

Having a hard coded width of ~800 pixels is a real waste of screen real estate. They are HARD CODING this site for someone who has a 10 year old monitor. Even on my modest sized 17 inch LCD, 38% of the horizontal resolution is going to dead space. Meanwhile, there are pages which force me to scroll even vertically though there is a ton of space available for content to be in. This is really going to be much worse once widescreen monitors become more and more common (which, ironically enough, will show up on the desks of "premium" shoppers first). I can't even imagine how silly the site would look to someone running a 1600 pixel resolution.

You know why they are hard coding for the lowest common denominator? Because of their flash content. Since they are using flash content that spans the whole horizontal width, they can't afford to size the site wider than 800 pixels for the risk of alienating people who still run 800x600 resolution since flash doesn't scale to resolution. I hope you can appreciate the irony of a site that requires a premium internet connection and a up to date computer but shackles users with the limitations of decade old display technology.

03-07-2005, 02:15 PM

Dear KC...
Translation: Dear KC, huff a dong, you're just cranky because we won't make you a Motorsports Moderator :p
:monkey: :p

03-07-2005, 02:38 PM

I hope you can appreciate the irony of a site that requires a premium internet connection and a up to date computer but shackles users with the limitations of decade old display technology.

Why? Why would that be so hard to understand? You said in your 3rd paragraph that:
... they perform poorly on my work PC which is a P3 600. Granted it's nowhere near top of the line, but it is representative of a computer that is out there for people who don't upgrade every year.

Well it stands to reason that people that don't upgrade their computers, especially don't upgrade their montiors since you can just buy the box cheaper, right? They did, however, upgrade their connection when it was available.

Would they even know how to set the screen size higher than the default? These are the people the site WAS designed for. And, it just so happens, the site works with people that have bigger monitors.

Should it scale? IMHO, sure. What's the design and testing budget that makes sure that the code works in every single browser. Complex CSSs based layouts do not display the same across browsers/platforms. Yess, CSS has a much less load on required bandwidth vs flash. No agument there.

However, Flash does, no matter what platform, or browser you're using, render the same, with no special quirks becuase I happen to be using IE 5 instead of IE 6.

Pick your poison. You can get CCS designed sites to look close across browsers, but you never know when IE7 will come out and mess that whole thing up. And IE just happens to be the biggest audience. However, Flash is pretty much a standard in and of itself.

With Image based advertising, you want person A and person B to be exposed to the same material.

Beaverboy

03-07-2005, 03:44 PM

As a corollary to the animations, they perform poorly on my work PC which is a P3 600. Granted it's nowhere near top of the line, but it is representative of a computer that is out there for people who don't upgrade every year.
Yikes.. I was running a P3 600 at 900Mhz (150Mhz FSB) 5 years ago. Your work computer is bordering on antique status.

You can pick up a 2.4Ghz P4 Celeron (400Mhz FSB) Dell w/ 17" monitor for $399. Even people who don't upgrade every year should be running at least 1.5Ghz P4s or so (pentium-wize)... people who don't upgrade but twice a decade might still be working with 600Mhz machines.

As for Subaru's new site.. it's a huge step forward in design.. and in bringing the SOA site into line with the Subaru Japan site (http://www.subaru.co.jp/index.html), which was probably a large part of their agenda.

SoDealer

03-07-2005, 03:50 PM

As a corollary to the animations, they perform poorly on my work PC which is a P3 600. Granted it's nowhere near top of the line, but it is representative of a computer that is out there for people who don't upgrade every year.

I did a computer check up on AOL at home on my PC which has an Athlon XP 2200+, ATI 64MB 7500 All-In-Wonder, 768 Megs of Ram, and 120 gig 7200 rpm HD. AOL reported all of this as AVERAGE! with the exception of an extra 256 MB of RAM and 40 more gigs of HD space. A P3 600 is way behind the curve these days. Oh and KC...I'm typing this from a 17inch Powerbook which sits next to my G4 Cube ;)

03-07-2005, 03:55 PM

Oh and KC...I'm typing this from a 17inch Powerbook which sits next to my G4 Cube ;)

[Covers ears]la-la-la-la-la-I can't hear you la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la[/Covers Ears]

--kC
(Yes, I use PCs and Macs daily... my mac line was in jest. ;) )

bull3964

03-07-2005, 04:04 PM

Why? Why would that be so hard to understand? You said in your 3rd paragraph that:

Well it stands to reason that people that don't upgrade their computers, especially don't upgrade their monitors since you can just buy the box cheaper, right? They did, however, upgrade their connection when it was available.

So it's ok that they made a site that will give a bad impression because everything crawls on it?

Would they even know how to set the screen size higher than the default? These are the people the site WAS designed for. And, it just so happens, the site works with people that have bigger monitors.

OEM computers are usually set at a higher display resolution than 800x600 from the factory. This is especially true with ones that ship with LCDs as an LCD has a native resolution where it is optimal for operation and even a 15 inch LCD has a native resolution higher than 800x600.

Should it scale? IMHO, sure. What's the design and testing budget that makes sure that the code works in every single browser. Complex CSSs based layouts do not display the same across browsers/platforms. Yess, CSS has a much less load on required bandwidth vs flash. No agument there.

Which is why I said it made the site look cheap. Macromedia products in general are made for quick development and prototyping. They are very useful for sites that change content quite often and have tight development windows. A car manufacturer website doesn't fit that. The content isn't that dynamic. It only gets major changes when a model is changed, otherwise, the bulk of the content stays static.

However, Flash does, no matter what platform, or browser you're using, render the same, with no special quirks becuase I happen to be using IE 5 instead of IE 6.

You forgot the "or not at all" portion. No plugin = no content. This means that you are limited to browsers and platforms that Macromedia decides to support with their flash plugin.

Pick your poison. You can get CCS designed sites to look close across browsers, but you never know when IE7 will come out and mess that whole thing up. And IE just happens to be the biggest audience. However, Flash is pretty much a standard in and of itself.

You also don't know if IE7 will have tighter restrictions on activex controls which will make installing a plugin like flash more difficult. It's the ease of installation of activex controls that's at the root of IE security problems right now and if that process is made more difficult than clicking "Yes" when going to a site that requires the plugin, many people may not bother.

With Image based advertising, you want person A and person B to be exposed to the same material.

At the expense of making that material more difficult to access though and opening the possibility that person C will not get to see it at all?

I will say, I do not think their design will impact sales at all. That's not really the issue at hand here. We are discussing the actual merits of the website redesign and I, along with others here, feel that it falls short. The excessive use of flash, because of the limitations it imposes, gives a budget feel to the site no matter how much animation or dark color scheme is crammed into the design. It telegraphs the fact that it was designed by a marketing committee rather than someone who understands both the medium and content.

Is it full of eyecandy? Yes. Does it convey any sense of premium? Nope, can't say that I get that impression.

Jon [in CT]

03-07-2005, 04:06 PM

Does anyone else notice that Subaru's new site has no real content? Most who visit Subaru's site are looking for authoritative information about Subarus. They're trying to do their homework before they visit the showroom because they don't want to be utterly dependent on their salesman's knowledge of the current model line's features and accessories. Some are trying to decide whether the current year's model is better enough compared to last year's model (wich might still be available new at a significant discount). Other's are trying to decide between two different current Subaru models (i.e. is the Limited worth the extra money?)

Let's say you're trying to decide between two current versions of the Outback, the 2.5XT Limited wagon and the 3.0R VDC. You go to Subaru.com and, four clicks and many baud later, you're looking at the list of features and specifications for the 2.5XT Limited wagon. Now you need to open another window/tab and go to Subaru.com again and, another four clicks later, you're looking at the list of features and specifications for the 3.0R VDC.

So what are these features? What, for instance is "antidive geometry" or "5-speed adaptive electronic direct-control automatic with SPORTSHIFT manual control?" There are no explanations and no hyperlinks to explanations anywhere in the features list, so the average visitor has no idea what most of these features are. Can anyone find me a hyperlink to a description of VDC, VTD, AVCS, ETC, VVL, EBD or any of the features?

Each feature listed ought to have a hyperlink to a page that describes what it does and why it's good. If the feature is an improvement over the previous model year's similar feature, the difference should be explained, too. Depending on the feature, that feature description page would also have large thumbnails with the "Click to enlarge" option (for tires and wheels, e.g.) or it could have one or more "Click to learn more" options that would take one to pages that describes how the feature(s) works. Now this "How it Works" type page is a very good candidate for animation, to allow the reader to visualize the concepts involved. Here's an example of the type of animation I have in mind, taken from a Subaru Australia page describing how Subaru's 2-stage turbocharger system works: Twin-Turbocharger Operation (http://jon.in.ct.home.att.net/2Stage-Turbo.swf). Another example: Subaru Boxer engine. The "what it is and why it's good" page would point out the low CoG and vibrations inherent in a boxer design. But people don't get the reference to a "boxer" until they see an aninmation of the opposing cylinders moving out and in together, which is what they'd see if they hit the "click to learn more" button.

bull3964

03-07-2005, 04:20 PM

Jon [in CT], i was actually going to make an addendum to my post addressing that very same thing. However, just to be sure I wasn't mistaken about the lack of content I went to the site and attempted to view the AWD information applet.

You beat me to the post because opening that forced a reboot of my computer. Ahh macromedia, what CAN'T you code half-assed (I deal with Coldfusion every single day and dear god if that doesn't have a lot of flaws). Flash is one of the few things I can consistently get to crash both on my work and hope pc. Fortunately at home it is less frequent and only manages to take down the browser.

BigElm

03-07-2005, 07:02 PM

']Does anyone else notice that Subaru's new site has no real content? Most who visit Subaru's site are looking for authoritative information about Subarus. They're trying to do their homework before they visit the showroom because they don't want to be utterly dependent on their salesman's knowledge of the current model line's features and accessories. Some are trying to decide whether the current year's model is better enough compared to last year's model (wich might still be available new at a significant discount). Other's are trying to decide between two different current Subaru models (i.e. is the Limited worth the extra money?)

Let's say you're trying to decide between two current versions of the Outback, the 2.5XT Limited wagon and the 3.0R VDC. You go to Subaru.com and, four clicks and many baud later, you're looking at the list of features and specifications for the 2.5XT Limited wagon. Now you need to open another window/tab and go to Subaru.com again and, another four clicks later, you're looking at the list of features and specifications for the 3.0R VDC.

So what are these features? What, for instance is "antidive geometry" or "5-speed adaptive electronic direct-control automatic with SPORTSHIFT manual control?" There are no explanations and no hyperlinks to explanations anywhere in the features list, so the average visitor has no idea what most of these features are. Can anyone find me a hyperlink to a description of VDC, VTD, AVCS, ETC, VVL, EBD or any of the features?

Each feature listed ought to have a hyperlink to a page that describes what it does and why it's good. If the feature is an improvement over the previous model year's similar feature, the difference should be explained, too. Depending on the feature, that feature description page would also have large thumbnails with the "Click to enlarge" option (for tires and wheels, e.g.) or it could have one or more "Click to learn more" options that would take one to pages that describes how the feature(s) works. Now this "How it Works" type page is a very good candidate for animation, to allow the reader to visualize the concepts involved. Here's an example of the type of animation I have in mind, taken from a Subaru Australia page describing how Subaru's 2-stage turbocharger system works: Twin-Turbocharger Operation (http://jon.in.ct.home.att.net/2Stage-Turbo.swf). Another example: Subaru Boxer engine. The "what it is and why it's good" page would point out the low CoG and vibrations inherent in a boxer design. But people don't get the reference to a "boxer" until they see an aninmation of the opposing cylinders moving out and in together, which is what they'd see if they hit the "click to learn more" button.

I said something like this in some previous post but you went into much more detail you had time for ;)

My point exactly!!!

Yotsuya

03-07-2005, 07:48 PM

Think of the website as an extension of the brochures; they're equally useless to anyone looking for useful information about components. Heck, most car magazines aren't all that technical, other than some test numbers and the occasional tech sidebox. That's what ASE books, repair manuals, NASIOC and HowStuffWorks.com are for.

That said, Flash is nice for consistancy since browsers are a crapshoot, but it does lead to a lot of fluff creep. Take a look at Subaru's Japan site to see the true potential of "Flash Madness."

Jon [in CT]

03-07-2005, 08:58 PM

Think of the website as an extension of the brochures; they're equally useless to anyone looking for useful information about components.
...
Take a look at Subaru's Japan site to see the true potential of "Flash Madness."I always though the brochure was meant to be an enticement to visit the website (or a dealer) for details and answers to questions. It's normally easier and cheaper to put the bulk of the data on the website and keep it up to date than to publish a 100-page brochure. But, in SOA's case, the brochure has much more data than their website now.

I, perversely, would like to suggest that the Subaru Japan website might serve as a model for SOA's. If one goes to www.subaru.co.jp, one has an opportunity during the first few seconds it's loading (at least on a dialup connection) to click on an html option, which redirects to the homepage without Flash (that's not unlike the original 1996 Subaru.com home page cited earlier with the "Standard Performance" and "High Performance" buttons at the bottom). From the Flash-free homepage, it's usually possible to navigate to a Subaru Japan model's technical pages, which are usually VERY detailed and also Flash-free. Since Subaru Japan's site has all that content available without having to deal with Flash, I don't care how much other nonsense they care to host in Flash.

My only two complaints about Subaru Japan's website are that everything's in Japanese (not a valid complaint) and that the illustrations/pictures/graphs in the technical sections are very small and don't have a "click to enlarge" option.

SoDealer

03-08-2005, 12:33 AM

Jon [in CT]

03-08-2005, 01:03 AM

Obviously the revisions to subaru.com were based off of the surveys that were gathered from the survey pop up window. Based on those surveys this is what we've gotten. Those who don't like it are probably in the minority. You can't please everyone.Yep, folks kept telling Subaru over and over: You've got way too much text info on your site and it loads way too fast! Please, we'd be much happier if you just showed us animations of melting cars on your home page.

SoDealer

03-08-2005, 07:35 AM

']Yep, folks kept telling Subaru over and over: You've got way too much text info on your site and it loads way too fast! Please, we'd be much happier if you just showed us animations of melting cars on your home page.

I was being objective...now you're just being petty... ;)

bakadayo

03-08-2005, 11:10 AM

I have several issues w/ Flash. Hard to bookmark, (and as a corollary) usually hard to navigate through the site, and to a minor extent, you can't view an image alone or save a particular image unless provided the ability to.

However, in the end Flash is just a tool, and in most cases, I blame the tool wielder (Flash designer) in providing a subpar site. www.subaru.com is actually not that bad as car sites go. It's certainly not the best. I found the interface too cluttered, and my eyes were all over the screen trying to find the information/link/buttons I wanted. The information is there, just not convenient to find. www.subaru.ca is only marginally better - easier to navigate, but still plagued by clutteredness at times.

I really like VW's site (www.vw.com) EXCEPT for the fact that it's IE only. It's a shame that the development house they used did not go the extra mile to make it compatible as it's really not that difficult.

I used to do the backend programming for www.gmcanada.com and so I know just how designers can go wrong. IMHO, the really good web designers are the ones who understands the balance betw art and functionality; and can incorporate both into a single entity. I hate to generalize, but a lot of flash pieces I've seen are pretty, but not very functional when they needed to be.

SubaruImpreza_power

03-08-2005, 11:40 AM

Oh my gosh quit griping people...It seems we have people who are adverse to change...Nevermind that the previous Subaru site used extensive Flash as well...I think it's a pretty good site (from someone who designs websites, logos, and PowerPoint templates)

The best subaru site is http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/bt/index_f.html ...it's worth checking out

Ditto SOJ's website is great, it's not overused by flash maybe SOA can get some pointers from SOJ?

imho I still like Subaru Of Japan's website better.

rsholland

03-08-2005, 12:41 PM

The new SOA site "looks" much better than the old site. It certainly creates a more modern an upscale image of Subaru, and that's good.

Having said that, I think Jon has a point. I would also like to see the site have the ability to offer more in-depth information, for those who want it. One thing I would LOVE to see, would be links to Subaru Owner's Manuals, page-by-page, of every model. These could be PDFs, and even broken down into further sub-set PDFs, if need be.

For example:

One could select the "Owners Manuals" link. Then select "Impreza." Then select a topic like "Break-in Procedures," and a PDF of that topic could be accessed, which you could download.

This not hard to do, as all page layout programs such as Quark Express and InDesign can be exported to PDFs. I'm sure the Owners Manuals are laid out in one of those two programs.

Bob

ckcook

03-09-2005, 11:21 AM

Look I've battled this flash issue/heavy overloaded site design at every company Ive worked out. WITHOUT fail my advice has been ignored and each and everytime my predictions has become true.

Sounds like you may have problems at your office.

For a struggling japanese automaker,

What Japanese automaker are you refering to? I'm not aware that Subaru is struggling.

WRSport

03-09-2005, 02:12 PM

:lol: Funny **** guys.

Ckcook, I take it you work in marketing at Subaru and are upset with my honest real world comments?

ckcook

03-09-2005, 02:14 PM

One thing I would LOVE to see, would be links to Subaru Owner's Manuals, page-by-page, of every model. These could be PDFs, and even broken down into further sub-set PDFs, if need be.

Bob,

The PDFs of the Owner's Manuals are available online as a part of My.Subaru (http://www.my.subaru.com) . For a fee, you can also browse entire service manuals on the STIS (http://techinfo.subaru.com) site.

Jon [in CT]

03-09-2005, 03:13 PM

Bob,

The PDFs of the Owner's Manuals are available online as a part of My.Subaru (http://www.my.subaru.com) . For a fee, you can also browse entire service manuals on the STIS (http://techinfo.subaru.com) site.One can't view the owner's manual at My.Subaru (http://www.my.subaru.com) unless one's already purchased that Subaru. Pretty worthless for a potential buyer trying to evaluate a Subaru model. There's no good reason preventing Subaru from making a copy of the owner's manual for each current model available for browsing by potential buyers on the www.subaru.com site. Does Subaru think someone's going to make a bootleg CDROM of the owner's manual and start selling it on eBay? The people who own Subarus already got their owner's manual for free when the bought their Subaru (or can go to My.Subaru (http://www.my.subaru.com)). Only an idiot would pay $35 to STIS just to download the owner's manual.

BigElm

03-09-2005, 03:42 PM

']One can't view the owner's manual at My.Subaru (http://www.my.subaru.com) unless one's already purchased that Subaru. Pretty worthless for a potential buyer trying to evaluate a Subaru model. There's no good reason preventing Subaru from making a copy of the owner's manual for each current model available for browsing by potential buyers on the www.subaru.com site. Does Subaru think someone's going to make a bootleg CDROM of the owner's manual and start selling it on eBay? The people who own Subarus already got their owner's manual for free when the bought their Subaru (or can go to My.Subaru (http://www.my.subaru.com)). Only an idiot would pay $35 to STIS just to download the owner's manual.

Problem is just that... with malicious people roaming on this earth and especially the internet, chances are they'll use the manual for self interest, other than being educated.

Jon [in CT]

03-09-2005, 03:53 PM

Problem is just that... with malicious people roaming on this earth and especially the internet, chances are they'll use the manual for self interest, other than being educated.But how? They can't sell them because the only people who might possiblely want one, owners, already have free access to the owner's manual.

BigElm

03-09-2005, 04:14 PM

Well, it would be more intended to those who don't own Subarus. Maybe those who are working on projects and so forth. I'm sure ebay would have answers to any kind of person looking for these.

Nevermind, I'm actually thinking of "Service" manuals not "Owners". - But, I guess it's just a legal issue. Haven't heard of any other car make doing it. But in this wonderful world of gain and loss, chances are they prefer to 'sell' you the manual (hard copy) than offer it for free.

rsholland

03-09-2005, 05:13 PM

I'm one of those few who use owners manuals to help me make up my mind in terms of purchasing a vehicle. I would find having that available to customers (before they buy a car) as a very valuable sales tool.

Bob

Jon [in CT]

03-09-2005, 06:06 PM

Haven't heard of any other car make doing it.Hyundai offers free online access to their entire library of service manuals (I assume that includes Owner's Manuals, too), as well as to their online parts database. But that's a different topic.

rogerd

03-09-2005, 06:52 PM

A lot of good points all around. From my own experience in the IT business, the first problem is that *ALL* web site "definers", designers, etc., work on in house networks, with megabit speeds to the desktop. So that's what they design for - unless they are required by enlightened management to design for and demonstrate their products on dial up. And IT enlightened management is pretty thin on the ground.

"Flashy" sites always look good to the marketing types - flash is their profession after all; it's engineers who worry about facts and content.

I think the SOA site is a distinct improvement - but then I have cable Internet. It does fall into the same fault as the old site though - when you navigate and change the bottom of the page, the top redoes itself unnecessarily.

Contrary to at least one strongly held opinion, I DO judge a company by its web presence - and unfortunately many of them stink. There's simply no excuse for a Fortune 100 company's web site to have 404's as an example - but they do.

As for Hyandai's online manuals - good for them! Subaru should do the same. Like some others, I like to read the manuals before I buy the car - that way you learn a lot more than a glossy web site or brochure will ever tell you.

rsholland

03-09-2005, 07:54 PM