What's the point, Ferrari? It's not like they have any unfair advantage over you. :rolleyes:


_________________________________
Ferrari shuts Minardi out of first GP practice
In a sensation at the Melbourne Grand Prix, Minardi is out of today's first practice session with Ferrari refusing to allow the team to compete.

Minardi owner Paul Stoddart frantically sought approval from Ferrari, but team boss Jean Todt refused to sign.

The two Minardis are 2004 models and fail to conform to new specifications brought in for this season.

Race organisers say the cars can compete if all rival teams agree.

Stoddart says he will keep lobbying through the day and night in the hope of competing in the qualifying session tomorrow.

The first practice session began at Albert Park in Melbourne without Minardi.

It is the first of four practice sessions before qualifying begins tomorrow afternoon.

With rule changes in force, teams will use their time on the track today to make last-minute adjustments to their cars.

For Australian fans all eyes are on Mark Webber who is driving in his first race with Williams.

Others are keen to see Ferrari's Michael Schumacher win his fifth Australian Grand Prix in six years.

The drivers will return to the track for another practice session this afternoon.



http://www.abc.net.au/sport/content/200503/s1315886.htm

Well, ain't that a kick in the nuts. I guess they have the right, especially since rules aren't met, but still... maybe a "yes, but with ballast" would be better.

http://www.abc.net.au/sport/content/200503/s1314702.htm



Schumacher says Minardi shouldn't race

Ferrari driver Michael Schumacher says it would be unfair if Minardi used a 2004 car in the Australian Grand Prix this weekend.

Minardi, Formula One's smallest team, say they have not been able to afford to comply with new rules aimed at slowing Formula One cars down.

Minardi is waiting for Ferrari to sign a waiver with the other eight teams, allowing them to use last year's car.

Minardi may resort to legal action if Ferrari fails to agree to their decision tonight.

Schumacher says while it is not up to him, Minardi should not be treated any differently to the other teams.

"Imagine there's a new rule in soccer, you start playing with 10 people and there's always one team which is not doing very well," he said.

"Would you accept they play with 11 or more people?"

It kind of sucks that Minardi does not have a car that meets the rules. On the one hand, it sucks that Ferrari is refusing to sign the wavier.

On the other hand, if Minardi can't afford to build a car to meet the current rules, then well, tough... This is formula one after all.

Well supposedly Minardi does have the parts to make the cars legal but they haven't tested them on the track yet and say that it wouldn't be safe to run the cars like that in the race. This was mentioned in a link in one of the other F1 threads thats discussing this.

Would Minardi be signing the document if it was Ferrari that wanted to race their 2004 car?



I didn't think so.

Would Minardi be signing the document if it was Ferrari that wanted to race their 2004 car?



I didn't think so.


Exactly, if Minardi couldn't find the resources to track test the new parts then that's their fault, not Ferrari's. I guess there is something to be said about allowing it to slide in the spirit of competition, but if the minardi car isn't playing by the same rules as everyone else it could afford their team an unfair advantage which completely throws any notion of true competition out the window anyways. Additionally, there's no way to tell if the car does indeed have an unfair advantage so the safe bet is to deny minardi entrance.

Minardi unfair advantage......I cant believe these words are even being spoken.

LAME move on Ferrarri's part. Ive given them a pass on lots of things over the years but crap like this leave a very bad taste in my mouth.

Woot - 1 more hour!!!!

This is being discussed in a number of other threads, but I'll repost here:

What about the ability to race but with no opportunity to score championship points?

Assuming the Minardi vehicles pass a safety inspection, the drivers and some new parts get some testing, PS gets his team out in front of his home crowd, and he can get some implict bragging points if they should happen to finish in front of anyone.

I mean, isn't this basically what's happening with the illegal Maserati (= Ferrari) GT cars? They're racing, but not for points.

If Minardi just trekked all their stuff from Italy (where they're based, yes?) to Australia for no reason, they can kiss any cost savings from the new rules (the ones meant to level the playing field for teams like them) goodbye.

I seem to recall ferarri dodging some rules last season, i remember they wore their tires down to flat slicks, while the comentators stated that there must be grooves in the tires, did Shui also pass under caution one race. It is really a lame move by Ferarri. I find it funny that they are afraid of Manardi.

This is being discussed in a number of other threads, but I'll repost here:

What about the ability to race but with no opportunity to score championship points?

Assuming the Minardi vehicles pass a safety inspection, the drivers and some new parts get some testing, PS gets his team out in front of his home crowd, and he can get some implict bragging points if they should happen to finish in front of anyone.

I mean, isn't this basically what's happening with the illegal Maserati (= Ferrari) GT cars? They're racing, but not for points.

If Minardi just trekked all their stuff from Italy (where they're based, yes?) to Australia for no reason, they can kiss any cost savings from the new rules (the ones meant to level the playing field for teams like them) goodbye.

^^ Makes sense to me.

This definitely makes Ferrari look even more like the bad guy then they ever were last season...regardless as to what is "right." Not a very classy move.

- Andrew

all you people bashing Ferrari for denying Minardi the ability to participate chew on this :

Ferrari knows something about the 2004 car that you DON'T. your source of information is television and the internet. not in-house testing of the 2005 car vs the 2004 car.

what it boils down to is this : the Minardi car doesn't comply with 2005 rules. therefore, it should NOT be allowed to race no matter what the other teams say. i want Ferrari to be toppled as much as the next guy but that doesn't mean i want them to let other cars race which don't even conform to 2005 rules. that is complete BS.

if you are so weak that you can't even build a car an average car that conforms to the current rules then you need to go home, sit in a corner and think about your dumbass mistakes.

all you people bashing Ferrari for denying Minardi the ability to participate chew on this :

Ferrari knows something about the 2004 car that you DON'T. your source of information is television and the internet. not in-house testing of the 2005 car vs the 2004 car.


I take it you missed the part that Ferrari is running the 2004 engine themselves starting in about 31 minutes?

IF minardi was able to run people would have seen it would have been a NON issue. Running but without potenital points would have been fine as well to cover everyones butts.

Yes, the wings would not be to 2005 spec.....Minardi would not be trouncing everyone......the other teams were fine with this.

running without points i can agree with. but otherwise no. still a car is more than it's engine.

The two Minardis are 2004 models and fail to conform to new specifications brought in for this season.



'nuff said.

Ferrari is god.

running without points i can agree with. but otherwise no. still a car is more than it's engine.


just so there is an extra car or two on the track to have to go around?? What if said team, who can't score any points, causes a crash that takes out a team who could win, would that be fair??

I take it you missed the part that Ferrari is running the 2004 engine themselves starting in about 31 minutes?



are they(Ferrari) legally allowed to participate?

(yes)

is Minardi legally allowed to participate if Ferrari says no?

(ok, then)

Minardi should've felt blessed that they atleast had 'A' car to run for the past few years. otherwise they would've been cleaning the **** off the floors.

Kwyjibo : i agree with you. it's just that i'm trying to think on the same level as these Ferrari haters. except for the fact that I'm a Ferrari hater as well. I just don't want anything unfair going on.


Ferrari is superior to MOST teams. that's a fact of life. deal with it.


to al the Ferrai haters is Ferrari doing anything that's NOT withing the rules?

Ferrari is superior to MOST teams. that's a fact of life. deal with it.



Thanks for the F1 lesson.

:lol: I was a full fledged F1 fan by the time 1982 rolled around and you were born.

A dominant team is nothing new. It hasnt always been Ferrari.

it's not only ferrari who refused to sign; redbull also did not sign.

the piece of paper stoddart has in his hand has the signature of Jag's principle on it.
Jag's no longer in F1, thus that piece of paper is no longer valid.

I can't believe people actually are blaming ferrari for minardi's ****up. It's not like he doesn't HAVE the 05 bodywork either, he just hasn't tested em "enough" to justify putting it on.

This is downright retarded, he'd rather waste time to make ferrari look bad than to put it on and run. Think aobut this before you ferrari-bashers decide to bash the team. I'm hoping someone step up and kick their ass too, but this is rediculous.

Would YOU let someone run a car that does not conform to the racing series you participate in? If you would, more power to you. I know i won't.

Ferrari haters :lol:

Ive defended their actions so many times over the years Ive lost count.

I disagree with the decision made and refuse to be lumped into the Ferrari hater group.

If Minardi cant conform to the rules, then too bad. I'm sorry but they shouldn't race. Everyone else has to conform, so should they.
And I am not a ferrari fan, I'm a honda fan for the record.

Thanks for the F1 lesson.

:lol: I was a full fledged F1 fan by the time 1982 rolled around and you were born.

A dominant team is nothing new. It hasnt always been Ferrari.


hahaha...hey atleast you're keeping your spirits up. that's good
:banana:

but just b/c you've known about F1 longer than i have doesn't mean i don't know know what i'm talking about. yes there have been many teams in the past who have dominated. if i was alive back then, i would've LOVED to see the dominant team go down. today i would LOVE to see Ferrari go down. but that doesn't mean I would support an illegally preparered car no matter HOW ****ty the team is.

in the end, Ferrari and all those who are against MINARDI RUNNING AN ILLEGAL CAR FOR 2005 are who i support.

Thanks for the F1 lesson.

:lol: I was a full fledged F1 fan by the time 1982 rolled around and you were born.


since you were born before me, you are OBVIOUSLY right :rolleyes:



A dominant team is nothing new. It hasnt always been Ferrari.

oh really? "Thanks for the F1 lesson...." i didn't know that :rolleyes:

What's the big deal? Minardi are always rolling hazards on track anyway. not having them in the race is better for everybody else's safety... not to mention, Schumacher is RIGHT when he says they should be treated no differently than the other teams which must conform to the new rules.

What's the big deal? Minardi are always rolling hazards on track anyway. not having them in the race is better for everybody else's safety... not to mention, Schumacher is RIGHT when he says they should be treated no differently than the other teams which must conform to the new rules.

it seems like we all agree with the exception of one person.... but he was born before i was so he MUST be right.
:lol:

Good lord, blow a ****ing a comment out of proportion much?


ITS not about Minardi winning.

If you want Minardi GONE which some of you clearly do, then you believe in a differnt vission of F1 than I do.

Do you remember how many cars we had at times in seasons past?
When your at a race live even a backmarker minardi doesnt suck.....

Minardi was not looking for a season long exemption correct?

Different way of looking at would what could be a struggling series before too long. I think some of you need to look at this issue in a more longterm view.

FWIW, I'm still willing to bet Minardi will be running with an exemption before the weekend is over.

screw it....nevermind

in all fairness to Minardi and the other teams...every race needs losers for they determine the winners, and I appreciate those other teams consistently losing so Ferrari can be the winner :D

Hopefully this year I can make it out to Europe to watch a F1 and WRC event live

it seems like we all agree with the exception of one person.... but he was born before i was so he MUST be right.
:lol:Age is not a factor. Some people just look for reasons to hate winners.

I seem to recall ferarri dodging some rules last season, i remember they wore their tires down to flat slicks, while the comentators stated that there must be grooves in the tires, did Shui also pass under caution one race. It is really a lame move by Ferarri. I find it funny that they are afraid of Manardi.
It was consistently the Williams team that ran their Michelins down to slicks in the 2003 season. In 2004, Ferrari/Bridgestone decided to adopt the new square tread profile to compete with the Michelins.

Red Bull signed a deal fairly early in the day with Minardi, and Ferrari did too. It was the stewards who said no. They'll run under protest for the race though I believe.

Minardi also agreed to race and not receive any points if they do well. Looking at the times in practice, there is no chance they are faster then the other teams so there isn't a problem.

The reason they aren't running with the new bodywork that hasn't been tested is because...well, it hasn't been tested. I'm guessing an F1 car running with unsafe bodywork that possibely flys off at any point would be a bad thing. Anyways, theres got to be a reason they wouldn't run with the new parts if they had them, I don't think Stoddart would go to the risk of not running if he didn't have to.

dont bring up williams trying to play ferraris game, and having it stolen from them.

thats exactly what happend. williams realized the rules didnt stipulate about the tires having grooves after a stint. they took advantage of it with michelin. they blew the socks off of ferrari. and what happend? the rules were changed by the ferrari biased bernie ecclestone (amongst other people), justt o give ferrari a chance at regaining thier championship and keeping thier dominance in-line. it was such an obvious tank job.

maybe they should just realize that williams had out-interperated the rules, and not ran to the high office to change things. brigdestone could have had tires that lived like the michelis within days.

many ferarri fans seem to forget what kind of literal support they get for just showing up. i'm not saying they dont deserve it, but the other teams that make up the competition get next to nothing.

ferrari has always explioted the rules, and the stewards to thier advantage, and i hope legacy will show that. maybe people will realize when the are about to get beat, rules change.

just like the future changes. i'll bet ferrari was whispering in bernies ear, about what to focus on. so they are currently in the garage working to keep thier dynasty.

with rules changing and exculding, so much over two different seasons, i can understand why minardi is taking a dive.

bernie ecclestone is the devil.

You are all fooling yourselves if you think that F1 is just about racing, and being fair. F1 is a business, and like all busineesses, it's all about making money. Why do you think all the teams pay Ferrari??

Becasue Ferrari is what is keeping F1 alive.

What a wonderful oppertunity for the anti-Ferrari camp to spew their pent up frustrations.

If Minardi has the parts available, just not tested, then what in the hell is PRACTICE for?

If they REALLY wanted get out there, put on the bodywork and go out and test it during the FOUR practice sessions before the qualifying and race. If after practice they deem them unsafe, pull out of the race, pretty simple.

If they dont know if they are safe or not, someone will eventually have to get in the car and drive it around at some point, practice on a race weekend seems as good a time as any for me.

I really don't know why there is even an argument. You meet the requirements or you don't... period.

Most of these new rules have been directed at slowing the red team down, why should they allow another team to race without complying with them?

Wasn’t Paul the one running around for the last two seasons whining about the rules and how they need to be changed???

Surprise, surprise, Minardi ran complying with 2005 specs. Also stated by the announcers was that Minardi had already completed two days of testing the new spec aero kit prior to this weekend. What kind of **** is Stoddart trying to pull here!? Good on Ferrari for calling Stoddart's bluff.

Looks like Bernie is non too impressed with Mr Stoddart's antics...

F1's commercial rights holder says the Minardi owner is too much of a nuisance. By Autosport.com staff

Formula One commercial rights owner Bernie Ecclestone has lashed out at Minardi owner Paul Stoddart, saying the Australian should leave Formula One.

Stoddart has drawn criticism from several leading figures in Formula One yesterday, when he asked an Australian court for an injunction against the FIA, after the Australian GP stewards disqualified his 2004 cars from participating in the season opening event.

Stoddart, who won the injunction, decided to withdraw his legal threat today and Minardi ran with a pair of hastily prepared and untested 2005 cars. But the Australian's action incurred the wrath of Ecclestone, who had in the past helped the cash-strapped team but now says it's time for Stoddart to leave.

"Paul's been a bit of a nuisance since day one, but we have protected him," Ecclestone told The Sun. "Regretfully, there is now no place in Formula One for someone like him. If you can't sustain running a team then you should get out.

"That's precisely what dear old Eddie Jordan did and that's what Paul should be doing. This is an expensive game to be sitting in on and if you can't afford the ante you shouldn't take part in the school."

:lol:

damn right.

Given court rulings and the attendant FIA irritability, making (what anyone knows to be hollow) threats to pull out of world motorsports in Australia, I'd say that Stoddart is a far bigger jackass than anything Ferrari could have done, eh? I still don't understand what he was trying to accomplish. I think it's absurd.

Kevin

This may be the one time that I agree with Ferrari and Schumi. This isn't an amateur sport; it's the highest level of motorsport know to man. Even though Minardi's budget is a fraction of the top teams, how could you spend $30M annually to bring an illegal car to grid? Ridiculous in my opinion.

On the other hand, I don't understand how Ferrari could be on the '04 engine. Is it still legal, even though it must last 2 race weekends?

This may be the one time that I agree with Ferrari and Schumi. This isn't an amateur sport; it's the highest level of motorsport know to man. Even though Minardi's budget is a fraction of the top teams, how could you spend $30M annually to bring an illegal car to grid? Ridiculous in my opinion.

On the other hand, I don't understand how Ferrari could be on the '04 engine. Is it still legal, even though it must last 2 race weekends?

It is an '04 engine which has been modified to meet '05 specs, including longevity restrictions. It is, in effect, an '05 engine as far as adherence to the rules is concerned.

Kevin

Welp he did get all of us talking about Minardi, didn't he? Lolz :rolleyes: