Well fresh off the boat (no pun intended) of me getting my 2.5RS wagon for me and my soon to be wife, I'm looking long and hard at getting a newer WRX. However, do you think with all the rumors running around, that Subaru will actually move the 5spd Automatic/ 5/6spd LegacyGT/STi tranny to the WRX?

I've driven a 5spd WRX and love it and driven a 4spd Auto WRX and hated it! :mad: Probably the worse automatic transmission for a turbo I've ever driven. However, the LegacyGT Auto is quite a different story. The shifts in manual mode are crisp and don't lag that much, plus you have the versitility of just sticking it in drive mode for the long trips. Either way, I'd like to see a '06 WRX with the 2.5 engine, making more than the LegacyGT (sorry LGT owners, but I think the WRX will have more HP) most likely the 255-265 range using a little bit bigger turbo and probably pushing 15 PSI stock.

Either way, I think I'll be holding out till we get the 5spd Auto Rex's.

Anyone else hoping as well!? :D

We'll know in May-June.. And WRX will probably make less hp than Legacy, at least on paper..

I wouldn't expect the WRX to make much more than 230hp.. even with the 2.5L.

What is the '5/6spd LegacyGT/STi tranny'?? The Legacy's manual tranny is the same as the WRX.. just with a reinforced case. I doubt we'll see the 6 speed in the WRX.. too heavy.

I would think that the 4EAT is so bad on the WRX because of the low end torque deficit... something the 2.5L WRX will remedy.

I wouldn't expect the WRX to make much more than 230hp.. even with the 2.5L.

What is the '5/6spd LegacyGT/STi tranny'?? The Legacy's manual tranny is the same as the WRX.. just with a reinforced case. I doubt we'll see the 6 speed in the WRX.. too heavy.

I would think that the 4EAT is so bad on the WRX because of the low end torque deficit... something the 2.5L WRX will remedy.
3 more HP than 227 from the 2.0L? That's pathetic..... I highly doubt Subaru would be cheap like that.

3 more HP than 227 from the 2.0L? That's pathetic..... I highly doubt Subaru would be cheap like that.


Torque my friend, more torque available lower in the power band. I'm assuming the HP would stay the same while the torque would go up or at least shift the power band so more torque is available sooner.

IMO seeing the 5MT with the reinforced case from the legacy is likely to become standard issue for the WRX, especially if it will come with the 2.5T engine. However, unless for some reason the 4EAT does not have enough torque capacity, it seems unlikely that the WRX will get the 5AT from the Legacy next year.

WRX and WRX STI for sports usage all the way, but if you are looking for an automatic transmission car, I think the Legacy is a way better car and a way better deal than the WRX and better looking to boot.

IMO seeing the 5MT with the reinforced case from the legacy is likely to become standard issue for the WRX, especially if it will come with the 2.5T engine. However, unless for some reason the 4EAT does not have enough torque capacity, it seems unlikely that the WRX will get the 5AT from the Legacy next year.

WRX and WRX STI for sports usage all the way, but if you are looking for an automatic transmission car, I think the Legacy is a way better car and a way better deal than the WRX and better looking to boot.


As I see it:

'06 WRX 5spd Auto / 5 spd Stick
LGT Tranny / LGT Tranny (w/ STi supplements)
2.5 DOHC w/ I'm betting a little bit bigger turbo (or same turbo as the LGT) and will have a 250-265 BHP and probably 260TQ.

I don't see why you guys think that Subaru will short change the HP/TQ and keep it "minmial" since the that isn't moving the car market forward at all.

If they use the exact same engine as the LGT, then it's all tuning at that point.... of which the WRX will have more HP than the LGT by default simply because the WRX is the "sports car" for the 24-32 yr olds.

While I like the Legacy's, they are for an older demograph and I'm hoping that Subaru realizes this. No offense to anyone younger/older than owns them, they're great cars, I'm just hoping that Subaru brings their flagship car platform up to speed.


Short version.

'06 WRX 2.5 DOHC w/ 5spd Sport Shift / 5 spd Manual / 250-265HP/260TQ

The STI is the flagship not the WRX, I don't see any reason why Subaru would feel it's important for the WRX to make more power than the GT. The GT is a larger, heavier, more expensive car. That means more power.

Here's my completely uneducated and un-asked for guess-

06 WRX-240hp 2.5
06 STi-330hp 2.5
Legacy Gt-still 250hp 2.5

The STI is the flagship not the WRX, I don't see any reason why Subaru would feel it's important for the WRX to make more power than the GT. The GT is a larger, heavier, more expensive car. That means more power.

I would say more people know the WRX than the STi but that's difference of opinion.

I tend to agree with Eby and others. The WRX is by no means a flagship, one might just call it their bread and butter sporty car, that being not the utmost special model. I by no means expect the WRX to make more power than more prestgigeous models including the Legacy GT. The power to weight ratio may exceed the GT's, but I would guess the WRX would make no more than 235-240chp and same number for torque. Reason being, even though it's popular, it's still not a premier sports model.

Personally, if they do add the 2.5L turbo powerplant to the WRX for 06, I think they will keep the 4EAT since it is still used in the FXT, the better torque curve capable with the EJ25 will help, the 5MT would likely move to the unit from GT/OBXT/FXT that is already proving to be more reliable with the revised case design. There is no good reason for the WRX to get more power than the more expensive GT and OBXT models, both, which sits higher on Subaru's totem pole. 235-240 and 235-240 with much more power under the curve will really change the WRX to a whole new character and under the curve is where it matters more than actual numbers by a long shot.

What kind of power does the Impreza turbo make in Japanese market? 250? What kind of power does the Legacy GT make in the Japanese market? Both are 2 liters, correct?

JDM Legacy = 280hp 5MT, 260hp 5EAT
JDM WRX = 250hp

It has been noted the reason the JDM WRX makes 250hp @ 6000rpm and 245lb-ft of torque @ 3600rpm is because their WRX uses AVCS and the higher octane fuels available regularly.

The Japanese difference between the WRX and Legacy GT power would indeed seem to bear out the notion that perhaps the U.S. WRX won't have as much power as the Legacy GT. That would be kind of disappointing to me. If they bump up the STI power to say 325 hp or so, which they probably will do to stay ahead of the competition, I'd like to see WRX power figures stay about the same relative to the STI, which would mean around 250. The WRX really should not compete with the Legacy GT, which is a much bigger and more luxurious car. No reason a WRX, based on the rally chassis, should not be faster/outperform the Legacy GT. Also, they could also offer some kind of performance Legacy GT between the current car and STI power levels, if someone wanted a hotter Legacy version

Fearless predictions for the next WRX:

Flared fenders--both new Subarus--Legacy and Tribeca--have them. Blisters are out.

Wagon and sedan to share same suspension and have same track. Having so many different body and suspension parts is redundant and wasteful, particularly for a low volume car like the Impreza

Impreza to move to Legacy chassis. It's better, and like above, keeps costs down. Two platforms makes no sense for a niche manufacturer like Subaru. Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate. Bonus: this lets them target their engineering resources. Instead of developing and tuning essentially 4 setups (Legacy, Impreza Sedan, Impreza Wagon, STi/Forester) they'll cut down to, eventually, one.

WRX and STi to grow closer: I bet you'll see the WRX to share the front and rear suspension linkages: right now the STi pretty much gets a bespoke setup.

Dunny

To the original poster: you seem to really like the Legacy GT 5-speed auto tranny, so why not just get a Legacy GT? That would seem like the answer to me. Although bigger than the WRXs, they are certainly still very fun to drive and still have quite a bit of power.

The wagons have different suspensions from the sedans for a reason; they are marketed more to people who want to haul more stuff with them. The STi has a different suspension for a reason too; its too stiff for the average WRX driver.

The wagons have different suspensions from the sedans for a reason; they are marketed more to people who want to haul more stuff with them. The STi has a different suspension for a reason too; its too stiff for the average WRX driver.
Ah, but it's not the suspension tuning but the physical dimensions. The sedan, wagon and STi all have different track width; the STi has different length rear lateral links and swaybar; the wagon has different front control arms. You can't interchange Sedan/STi suspension with the wagon. I bet we'll see one platform, different tunes with the new WRX, just like the new Legacy: Wagon, Sedan, Spec-B--it's all interchangeable.

Dunny

Torque my friend, more torque available lower in the power band. I'm assuming the HP would stay the same while the torque would go up or at least shift the power band so more torque is available sooner.

I can see it now... "The new Subaru WRX, now with 230 lb-ft of torque!!!" Just doesn't seem to have the performance ring of "...now with 245 HP!!!"

I will look at my tea leave an predict that the WRX gets a 2.5 with advertised HP quite close to the Legacy GT (remember, when the WRX had higher HP than the Legacy in the USDM?). I also predict that the rex gets the Forester XT treatment, with output numbers advertised on the conservative side.

The WRX put Subaru on the map in the USDM, it single-handedly made Subaru cool with its performance and driving character. Additions like the STi, Leg GT and Forester XT show that Subaru recognizes a winning formula. I do not think they will miss the opportunity to revitalize the WRX and again redefine the sport compact market... at least, that is what I hope.

I can see it now... "The new Subaru WRX, now with 230 lb-ft of torque!!!" Just doesn't seem to have the performance ring of "...now with 245 HP!!!"

I will look at my tea leave an predict that the WRX gets a 2.5 with advertised HP quite close to the Legacy GT (remember, when the WRX had higher HP than the Legacy in the USDM?). I also predict that the rex gets the Forester XT treatment, with output numbers advertised on the conservative side.

The WRX put Subaru on the map in the USDM, it single-handedly made Subaru cool with its performance and driving character. Additions like the STi, Leg GT and Forester XT show that Subaru recognizes a winning formula. I do not think they will miss the opportunity to revitalize the WRX and again redefine the sport compact market... at least, that is what I hope.

Don't forget the Baja XT!

Or Poland!

-Allen

Here's my completely uneducated and un-asked for guess-

06 WRX-240hp 2.5
06 STi-330hp 2.5
Legacy Gt-still 250hp 2.5

Ha, I like that, here's mine:

06 WRX - 250 hp/230 tq
06 STI - 375 hp/350 tq
06 Leg GT - 250hp/250 tq
06 Leg STI H6 TT - 420 hp/400 tq

Speculation is a wonderful thing :D

The reason I don't see the WRX getting a lot more power is because Subaru knows how the market works. Right now there are tons of kids fresh out of college (and many still in college) that are buying the WRX. Few people under 25 can head out and buy 227hp AWD cars and still manage to make the insurance payments as it is. Now, we're expecting the next impreza chassis to shed a few pounds -a la the hydroformed legacy chassis- so bumping the HP very far over 230hp is going to make the WRX a significantly faster vehicle. Once Subaru does that, they lose their youth market. With the STi to sell to more mature buyers, why would Subaru do that?

Advancing the market, as it were, is exactly how we lost all the sportscars in the mid 90's. Cars got too powerful, and too expensive for the public at the time. We lost cars like the RX7, MR2, 300ZX and the Supra. If Subaru keeps steaming ahead by pushing the HP boundary, then the STi, and eventually the WRX, will be added to that extinction list. Ask yourself why Nissan has been building a non-turbo Z for the last few years. Yes, it's fast.. but it's also cheap for them to continue building. They won't make the same mistake twice.

If you expect Subaru to forge ahead like the european makes with more powerful vehicles, then you have to expect them to sell them at similar prices, and eventually watch them become bloated overweight luxobarges, or go the way of Porsche and sell your cheapest sportscar at a premium.

The WRX put Subaru on the map in the USDM...
Actually I would say that it was the Legacy Outback (and our good friend Paul Hogan) that put Subaru on the map, followed by the Forester. Although I agree that the WRX has done a lot for Subaru, I still see at least 10 Outbacks on the road for every WRX. Of course this may be regional.

Beaverboy, you've made such a good point, I agree with a lot of what you said, I think the little enthusiast in all of us keeps grunting wanting more power, more power.

Along the lines of what you mentioned, I believe the industy pendulum swings to different extremes, from the insane muscle cars of the 70's to the supercars of the mid 90's and now we are on the brink of power cars again (look at the all the high powered vehicles flooding the market from the SRT vehicles to the V series cadillacs, to the upcoming 400 hp M3, and on and on) before another fad hits the industry and hybrid-everything becomes the norm. Having said that I do believe that in the next two years Subaru will have some very appealing and powerful vehicles introduced before they follow the rest of the market and fade down a bit...and chase the pendulum swing somewhere else. And that's why I hope to buy a 400 HP Subaru in the next few years (legacy or Impreza, not sure ;) )

Alright well I guess my next question to you guys is why do you think Subaru would undercut the HP/TQ on the WRX? Just to allow the LGT to be it's "highest" HP/TQ under $30k?

Either way, I think the LGT will get eclipsed by the WRX at least in the next year or two because the demograph of buyers for the LGT is older than for the Rex's.


Oh and the comment about me getting a LGT.... I'd like to, but it feels bloated to me. The 5sp Sport Shift w/ 2.5 Turbo engine in the WRX is more appealing to me anyways. Not saying the legacy isn't a cool car, I would just like a Rex instead.

Yes, I think the WRX will have less HP/TQ than the GT for reasons already stated in this thread.

I don't think the WRX numbers will be underated like the Forester XT. I think the only reason Subaru underated the XT numbers is to make the WRX look better. They figure most Forester owners aren't as concerned with HP, so why not underate it so the WRX looks better. Heck, maybe they'll just give the WRX the Forester XT engine rated at what it's actually producing. :lol:

Not to belabor the point, but as to WRX power ratings my thinking is: Subaru is releasing the first significantly modified WRX since its inception in this country. It will have a motor with 20% greater displacement, and five years of development. Seems to me we should be able to expect more than 3-13 hp increase, and that at a minimum we should get the Legacy figures(real figures not lowballed BS stuff like the supposed Forester turbo numbers). I'd be seriously underwhelmed with anything less.

Not to belabor the point, but as to WRX power ratings my thinking is: Subaru is releasing the first significantly modified WRX since its inception in this country. It will have a motor with 20% greater displacement, and five years of development. Seems to me we should be able to expect more than 3-13 hp increase, and that at a minimum we should get the Legacy figures(real figures not lowballed BS stuff like the supposed Forester turbo numbers). I'd be seriously underwhelmed with anything less.

Exactly. I don't think I would buy a WRX if the numbers are less than the Legacy GT.

Actually I would say that it was the Legacy Outback (and our good friend Paul Hogan) that put Subaru on the map, followed by the Forester. Although I agree that the WRX has done a lot for Subaru, I still see at least 10 Outbacks on the road for every WRX. Of course this may be regional.

that is a completely regional perspective. what you mean is that "the outback put Subaru on the Canadian DM."

in states not affected by snow, you don't see too many outbacks/legacies/foresters. it is the WRX that expanded the subaru brand image to more than "just" the snow vehicle.

getting back on topic, i doubt the WRX will see a big power increase. they sell well enough as they are...there's no need to change HP.

that is a completely regional perspective. what you mean is that "the outback put Subaru on the Canadian DM."

in states not affected by snow, you don't see too many outbacks/legacies/foresters. it is the WRX that expanded the subaru brand image to more than "just" the snow vehicle.
Last I checked the US has quite a few states with snow, and there's quite a few Outbacks in them. Putting something on the USDM map does not have to include every single state. Saying that a vehicle didn't make an impact in snow free states is also a completely regional perspective isn't it??? That would be akin to me saying that Dunkin Donuts hasn't made much of a North American impact, based on the fact that we don't have any in Canada.

Here's my completely uneducated and un-asked for guess-

06 WRX-240hp 2.5
06 STi-330hp 2.5
Legacy Gt-still 250hp 2.5


minus 10hp each from the wrx and STi and I think you're right on the money. No reason to add hp to the forester's 2.5, which is prob. what will find it's way into the wrx. The xt's are fast, have more torque, especially low end, combine that with the wrx weight and it'll already be faster and easier to drive.

My opinion is that the 2006 WRX will remain as a 2.0 liter. Subaru's decision must be based on costs. Unless the JDM WRX changes to a 2.5, I doubt we will see it in the No American WRX. I think Japan will use a 2.0 for the near future because of tax/fuel/insurance cost implications. I also think we will get whatever transmission the JDM models get. That is, for now until the WRXs are built in No America or sales are high enough in No America that it will dictate what its own WRXs will get as specs/options.

As for horsepower, my prediction is a bump to 235-240 with AVCS. I think Subaru actually doesnt want to increase the horsepower much in order to keep prices down on the WRX. Doing so will also help further differentiate the WRX from the Legacy.

Thats my guess :D

It's my non-guess that the WRX will have a 2.5 turbo soon(ish), and that it will have less advertised power than the Legacy.

Despite the image in the states, the WRX has been, and always will be, the entry level turbo vehicle of Subaru. The STi is the actual sports end, the Legacy was always the GT tourer with more power. The Forester was/is supposed to be a separate soft roader segment.

America has a skewed view of the WRX because Subaru gambled on releasing it with a turbo first. This was a gambled based on the fact that sales were very soft worldwide for the WRX at that time, and they figured they had the least to lose with the WRX at that point. Yes, they had a certain amount of feeling that a turbo Subaru was going to be a failure at that time.

On topic, I am pretty sure the WRX 2.5 would come with the Legacy GT 5-speed, which should give it a nice bump in reliability and power-holding.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
www.avoturboworld.com

00Maddog, I agree with your expectations on the WRX and the STi is 50:50 to me, not sure if they'll add an extra 20 on the STI right now with one year to go til refresh, but WRX sales are lagging, so it's a worthy upgrade.

Alright well I guess my next question to you guys is why do you think Subaru would undercut the HP/TQ on the WRX? Just to allow the LGT to be it's "highest" HP/TQ under $30k?

Either way, I think the LGT will get eclipsed by the WRX at least in the next year or two because the demograph of buyers for the LGT is older than for the Rex's.


Oh and the comment about me getting a LGT.... I'd like to, but it feels bloated to me. The 5sp Sport Shift w/ 2.5 Turbo engine in the WRX is more appealing to me anyways. Not saying the legacy isn't a cool car, I would just like a Rex instead.

What makes you think because the LGT buyer is older we need a slower car? I think that is downright ignorant. Lets see, SRT4-Magnum, Mazda3-MazdaSpeed6,etc. Moving up in class and performance at the same time, but a more refined level of touring performance.

Beaverboy hit this right on the head.

I love my LGT, would take it over a WRX any and every day! It's just that nice of a car to spend my time in.

I was told by srd Subaru Research and Development that the 2.5L will be in the WRX and that the order of perfomance will be restored
ie. fastest to slowest
sti
wrx
spec b leg
leg gt
forester
baja ( if it's still here)

oh yah we won't see the wrx till august or later bummer huh

Not really, because by the time the new one is out my GT will be MUCH faster. ;)

where does a leg STi fit into that picture? You guys keep talking about the STi as if it were its own car, its still a WRX!!! :)

I was told by srd Subaru Research and Development that the 2.5L will be in the WRX and that the order of perfomance will be restored
ie. fastest to slowest
sti
wrx
spec b leg
leg gt
forester
baja ( if it's still here)

oh yah we won't see the wrx till august or later bummer huh


Well that makes the most sense. I really do not see the Legacy GT making more Horsepower than the Rex.... sorry GT owners but that's just not going to happen. Different cars, different demographs.... it's obvious. Most GT owners are at least 30+ yrs old; Most WRX owners are sub 30yrs old. It's not a bias, it's a fact.

Either way, I can't wait to test drive one w/ the 2.5 if it comes in. :)

Different cars, different demographs.... it's obvious. Most GT owners are at least 30+ yrs old; Most WRX owners are sub 30yrs old. It's not a bias, it's a fact.

It's also a fact that the Legacy GT in Japan is rated at 276hp, and the WRX at 246hp. It's been like that for quite a while, too.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
www.avoturboworld.com

It's also a fact that the Legacy GT in Japan is rated at 276hp, and the WRX at 246hp. It's been like that for quite a while, too.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
www.avoturboworld.com

you realize that that is only a matter of about 15 whp difference if even that for the wrx??

that's like an uppipe and 1 psi more boost. = /


What i'd LOVE to see is AVCS and a decent transmission. if these 2 things are added i'll get a subaru again... but until the tranny is fixed i can't have a rex = ( ... i busted too many with my 04 (3rd transmission and 4th clutch)

What i'd LOVE to see is AVCS and a decent transmission. if these 2 things are added i'll get a subaru again... but until the tranny is fixed i can't have a rex = ( ... i busted too many with my 04 (3rd transmission and 4th clutch)

Yea, it would be really cool if they brought over a car with the 6 speed, DCCD and AVCS. Maybe they'll even bring it as an Impreza, with STI badges. One day, we can only hope. :rolleyes:

America has a skewed view of the WRX because Subaru gambled on releasing it with a turbo first. This was a gambled based on the fact that sales were very soft worldwide for the WRX at that time, and they figured they had the least to lose with the WRX at that point. Yes, they had a certain amount of feeling that a turbo Subaru was going to be a failure at that time.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
www.avoturboworld.com
I don't follow what you're trying to say here. I didn't think there was ever a non-turbo WRX available anywhere. It was my understanding that Subaru USA realized there was a significant demand for the WRX, which had been available just about everywhere else except the States for many years. Subaru was pleasantly surprised by how well it sold once they did make it available over here.
Where they go with it from here is anybody's guess, but I do think that Subaru views it as an important vehicle here in the States and for that reason I think their decision will be based on how to best increase the number of WRX's sold here.

you realize that that is only a matter of about 15 whp difference if even that for the wrx??Not quite.. the percentage of power lost to the drivetrain decreases as flywheel power levels go up. Also, the turbo setup places more area under the curve in the legacy.

that's like an uppipe and 1 psi more boost. = /
Those figures are for cars that already have catless up-pipes.

...but until the tranny is fixed i can't have a rex = ( ... i busted too many with my 04 (3rd transmission and 4th clutch) Somehow I suspect a loose nut behind the wheel.

...
Somehow I suspect a loose nut behind the wheel.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

OMG Subaru fan battles! WRX versus LGT R-U-M-B-L-E ! :)

The WRX needs something. Price is too close to LGT for a car with an inferior engine, transmission and interior.

-B

I did a clutch on a 05 lgt, and the flywheel was a dual-mass type, which is very heavy and can fail from heat (it had on that car, split right in two at the rubber bond). If they do keep the new trans behind the wrx 2.5 in 06, I hope they don't use the dm flywheel.

Advancing the market, as it were, is exactly how we lost all the sportscars in the mid 90's. Cars got too powerful, and too expensive for the public at the time. We lost cars like the RX7, MR2, 300ZX and the Supra. If Subaru keeps steaming ahead by pushing the HP boundary, then the STi, and eventually the WRX, will be added to that extinction list. Ask yourself why Nissan has been building a non-turbo Z for the last few years. Yes, it's fast.. but it's also cheap for them to continue building. They won't make the same mistake twice.
nissan had no money to keep going.

mazda had to pull out because the rotary, well there was no way they were going to pass emissions, and no other engines they had could have been used. that and it was really soon after ford bought them that they axed the rotary engine. hmm, correlation? yes.

toyota saw a culmination of a few things to push them out of the USA with the supra and the MR2. emissions regulations, this is what ultimately killed the supra. if you notice the direction toyota has decided to go in, neither the supra nor the mr2 were in toyotas plans for quality and economy, and they did not see a fast flagship as selling units.

take a look at the mustang, that car has, since 1995 seen constant improvement, however has not gone up in price (other than here and there, mostly caused by inflation, and price to build) since then.

the comaro was the same way.

if subaru can streamline the assembly of the car there is no reason they can't make it better and still sell it for the same or cheaper.

That's just it, the mustang has remained faithful to it's market. The MR2, RX-7, Supra and Z all had fairly humble beginnings. With a new generation, the cars would improve dramatically and we'd see a drop in the US sales numbers. What were once bargain sportscars that people adored, became expensive status cars that were outfitted with leather and power everything only so that their owners could complain about the rough ride. The emissions eventually closed the deal, but by that time they had already left the bargain sportscar market far behind.

Yes, Subaru could very well come out with a more powerful car that costs just the same.. I'm not against it at all. I just think that they're likely to keep the figure subdued on the WRX, to keep with their market. The WRX already brings a higher premium than a V8 Mustang with most insurance companies. Besides, the power-hungry will find modding a detuned EJ25 much more fruitful.

Wouldnt they have to keep it as a 2.0L in order to compete in WRC?

Wouldnt they have to keep it as a 2.0L in order to compete in WRC?
not in the U.S.

Wouldnt they have to keep it as a 2.0L in order to compete in WRC?
2.0L is only in the EU and JPN IIRC. Honestly the NA market is in need of a 2.5L powerplant engine that across all of Subaru's platforms, would generate sales, excitement and stability for the NA division of Subaru.