This thread is to consolidate Hydra discussion. Please do not litter it with "Which is better UTEC or Hydra" posts. While a perfectly valid question, this thread is for those who either already own a Hydra or who have a very specific question about the capabilities of the Hydra.

This top post is just a thread primer. Let's get the discussion going!

NOTICE: The following information is not from Element Tuning's mouth unless explicitly tagged in quotes attributed to Element Tuning. It is to be used at your OWN RISK.

NOTICE: Just because I have collected this information and this thread is under my name does not in anyway suggest I have any idea what I am doing.

Non-NASIOC Online Resources

Manufacturer's Site - http://www.hydraems.com/america/ (http://www.hydraems.com/america/). Click 'Software' for the latest manual and software revisions available for download.

Element Tuning Hydra EMS (http://www.elementtuning.com/technical/element_ems.htm) (aka Hydra + Subaru maps) product page

Element Tuning Hydra EMS Installation (http://www.elementtuning.com/technical/element_hydra_ems_installation.htm)

Element Tuning Guide (http://elementtuning.com/technical/elementtuningguide1.htm) for the Hydra EMS. This is guide 1 -- guide 2 is linked to the end of guide 1, etc...

Element Tuning Hydra EMS WB02 Sensor Calibration (http://www.elementtuning.com/technical/elementwbcalibration.htm)

hydraems.com forums (http://www.hydraems.com/forums/) - Not Subaru-specific.

Lots of good info about tuning the Hydra (http://www.mrcontrols.com/installs/nemesis/tuning.htm) - NOTE that the info here is often specific for a Toyota MR2.

http://www.hydratuning.com/

Focused "How To" Posts of Note

Boost Control (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9397574&postcount=32) by bboy. Link is to his single post. It's around 50% down page 2 in this thread if you care to find it that way.
Decel Fuel Cut (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9524541&postcount=112) by bboy. Link is to his single post. It's around 50% down page 5 in this thread if you care to find it that way.

NASIOC Threads of Note

"So who has gotten their Hydra/Element yet" (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=670489) - wanders in several directions with some good info buried in it.

bboy's (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=730391) post after a fresh Hydra tune with Phil of Element Tuning

Hydra injector to real-world cylinder correlation (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=710339)

wgknestrick's effort to make a Hydra tuning guide (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=698838)

n2xlr8n's thread about going fuel pump controller-less (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=722163)

DarthChicken's Hydra autotune "in action" images and thread (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721395)

Thread on Hydra CEL flashing details (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721367)

Some info about removing the MAF sensor with Hydra setups (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=717399)

bboy's info about tuning the Hydra on a Mac using Virtual PC (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=707927)

Hydra with/without cruise control (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=700231)

Some info on boost targets and deceleration fueling (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=684224)

Questions and Answers

Q: What keys alter cell values in increments?
A: PageUp / PageDown

Q: What does "Some passwords do not match" mean when I try to Download to ECU?
A: Various maps/sections allow for password protection. By default, Element Tuning (and/or your Hydra tuning shop) password protects some of the maps to save you from shooting yourself in the foot in areas you most likely should not be touching. The above message in the question is not an error and can safely be ignored. If you need access to password protected maps, you should contact Element Tuning with your serial number and discuss your needs.

Q: How can I see what maps/sections are password protected?
A: Settings menu -> Setup tab -> Check Status. See also FAQ at manufacturer's website (http://www.hydraems.com/america/).

Q: When I go to Settings -> Injection, enter values larger than 5 or less than -5 for trim and click enter, the number displayed reads 5. Why?
A: Phil says, "The maximum you can trim individual cylinders is +/- 5% which is a very large difference."

Q: I don't have MS Excel and that appears to be the only way to save logged data. W T F ?
A: Contact the manufacturer (http://www.hydraems.com/) and ask for software version 2.14v11 (or newer). It has the ability to "Export to Notepad" where you can then save your log files and view them in any tool of choice, such as Open Office (http://www.openoffice.org).

Q: Although USB-to-serial adapters are not recommended by Hydra EMS, are there any known to work okay?
A: It has been reported that the iConcepts PDA Serial to USB Adapter as well as the IO Gear unit. It should be noted, however, that using a USB-to-serial adapter will cause "slightly slower datalogging capabilities and roaming capabilities on the main fuel and timing maps". It is also reported that PCMCIA serial cards work very well without the above performance issue.

Various Notes


The "Closed Loop Limit" map is not in effect while Autotune is enabled (even though you have to Enable Closed Loop and Enable Autotune for doing autotuning...). A little confusing.

Thanks for consolidating this information!

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Phil, when can we roughly expect Element Tuning Guide 3? It's been a long time since 1 and 2. Any idea what it will cover?

It's been half way completed for about 1.5 months. :lol: I promise I will finish the tuing guide series and not leave it at only 2. I sidelined it temporarily so I could travel and tune Hydras around the country.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Thanks, Phil. I figured it was just a matter of being busy, but it is great to hear that you are dedicated to working on it further and it's not going to just fall off the face of the earth. It is sorely needed :)

Alright, I'll get the ball rolling with a question I emailed to Phil 20 mins ago on a Friday night at 8:15PM :)

During initial setup, after install of physical parts, and just after WB02 calibration exactly as the directions state...

I saved my map to my laptop.

I exited "Maps"

I clicked Download to ECU, then Download (1st time ever)

I got an error message about "Some passwords are not the same" and that some of my maps may not be transferred. I clicked OK. Stuff transferred and I was left at the main/first screen.

ANSWER: According to Hydra EMS North America, Phil's default is to disallow editing of some maps (maps 95% of you will never need to touch). The error above is caued by the password protection on some maps. It is actually fine.

jblaine - with the igntion on, go into select, settings, and hit the setup button. In there, you'll see a button called "check status"

Hit that, and see what "matches" and what "fails".

Did that.

Everything fails.

Damn seems like they are more trouble than they are worth?!?!?! To me it seems, If your not a master tuner, this thing should be left alone IMOP, But Its a powerfull tool, and they should really program the Crusie Control back into it!!!

Check your PMs, I have an idea for you

Thanks DC -- got PM. Email sent.

Damn seems like they are more trouble than they are worth?!?!?! To me it seems, If your not a master tuner, this thing should be left alone IMOP, But Its a powerfull tool, and they should really program the Crusie Control back into it!!!
It's a simple map/password problem. I am grumpy, but it's really no big deal. I'm the one who did the install at 6PM on a Friday night.

Damn seems like they are more trouble than they are worth?!?!?! To me it seems, If your not a master tuner, this thing should be left alone IMOP, But Its a powerfull tool, and they should really program the Crusie Control back into it!!!

Its not a matter of putting the cruise control back into it, its a matter of getting it in there. There are safeties built into the unit, and cruise control pretty much eliminates those safeties if it was used.

The problem that jblaine is having is not related to tuning at all. Its a password problem. Once the unit is setup properly for idle, vacuum controls, acceleration parameters (all the stuff that Phil does for us), its no harder to tune than any other engine management.

Well, aside from a low battery and no charger :rolleyes: I think I am on track now. I screwed around enough to get my saved initial map working and it reports some things password protected and some not (matches/fails). Updated original post above with more information/answer.

Updated top post with pretty lists and colors for easier reading. Added Q/A section.

thanks for doing this jeff. good luck!

ken

New Q: When I enter "10" into the fuel trim for inj1 - inj4 and click enter, why does it read '5'? It reads '5' no matter what I put, after clicking enter.

New Q: When I enter "10" into the fuel trim for inj1 - inj4 and click enter, why does it read '5'? It reads '5' no matter what I put, after clicking enter.

The maximum you can trim individual cylinders is +/- 5% which is a very large difference.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

EDIT: Update at bottom of post.

Thanks Phil.

I can't get this pig to start for anything with charged battery still. I feel like I am kind of running blind here though. Is there anything at all you can tell me about the map loaded into this thing initially? What size injectors was it mapped for?

No matter how far I swing rich or lean in cranking enrichment and start primer, I cannot seem to get the car to do anything but crank. The RPMs on dash and in the software blip up around 120RPM or so now and then during cranking.

I have tried as high as 40 cranking enrichment (20C) and as low as 10.

I have tried corresponding start primer as high as 2.5 and as low as 1.5 (20C).

I have also tried trim of -5 and the default 0.

I have also tried removing fuel from the main fuel map in the current trace site.

No sputter, no pops, and AFR during cranking goes to 8.6:1 no matter the changes above in any direction.

Is it safe to say at this point I have cylinders full of fuel and I am just soooo far off rich-wise that I need to take more drastic measures in the main fuel map?

UPDATE: Okay, with enough fuel pulled out of the main map and -5 trim on all injectors, I am seeing 10-11:1 AFR at crank now. Still nothing but cranking. No sputtering, no start.

EDIT: Update at bottom of post.

Thanks Phil.

I can't get this pig to start for anything with charged battery still. I feel like I am kind of running blind here though. Is there anything at all you can tell me about the map loaded into this thing initially? What size injectors was it mapped for?

No matter how far I swing rich or lean in cranking enrichment and start primer, I cannot seem to get the car to do anything but crank. The RPMs on dash and in the software blip up around 120RPM or so now and then during cranking.

I have tried as high as 40 cranking enrichment (20C) and as low as 10.

I have tried corresponding start primer as high as 2.5 and as low as 1.5 (20C).

I have also tried trim of -5 and the default 0.

I have also tried removing fuel from the main fuel map in the current trace site.

No sputter, no pops, and AFR during cranking goes to 8.6:1 no matter the changes above in any direction.

Is it safe to say at this point I have cylinders full of fuel and I am just soooo far off rich-wise that I need to take more drastic measures in the main fuel map?

UPDATE: Okay, with enough fuel pulled out of the main map and -5 trim on all injectors, I am seeing 10-11:1 AFR at crank now. Still nothing but cranking. No sputtering, no start.

The map that's in the unit you purchase is for a 2.5L WRX with 800cc injectors so this would not be a good starting point for a 2.0 WRX running stock injectors ;)

I'll email you something closer but again I don't have a map for stock WRX injectors.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Thanks Phil - got the map and replied. At least I know what I am starting from now in the map you sent me. Getting myself into a rough guess area with a map of known cc is much easier than having no idea what I am working with to start.

I plugged in the stock ECU and took the car around the block (a mile) to flush things out.

I have to be doing something funamentally wrong, flapping around in the dark here. I don't mind publicly humiliating myself if it means some sort of progress.

It seems to me that nothing I do changes my AFR significantly while cranking.

With the Hydra and a map for 550cc injectors, It just sits there and hovers around 9:1 when one would expect it to be at least as lean as 12-13:1 (because I have 440cc injectors). Globally alter/scale the map for 440cc injectors? Hovers around 9:1 still.

Putting my stock ECU back in, the car cranks right up and is firing on all cylinders.

I have tried increasing all fuel map values by as little as 3% and as much as 20%. Still reads roughly 9:1 during crank and never starts.

I have tried decreasing (against all logic) all original fuel map values by as little as 3% and as much as 20%. Still reads roughly 9:1 during crank and never starts.

I've recharged my battery 5 times in the last 22 hours... If I could just get the thing to SPUTTER or COUGH I'd be happy.

I just don't get it. I am missing something.

EDIT: For what it's worth, all injector trims are 0, and all start primer / cranking enrichment is left alone as instructed by Phil. I have been tweaking only the fuel map to try to get this thing to cough, wheeze, anything. The WB02 was calibrated and the L/R WB HEGO are selected... dunno what else to list here.

EDIT 2: I even tried dropping all cranking enrichment values to 0. Did nothing of significance for my problem.

Are you sure you have spark?

I would change my oil if I were you, there is probably a ton of fuel in it.

I'm not sure of anything other than my stock ECU starts the car right up. That's about the only consistent piece of information I have been able to gather in 2 days.

I agree re: fuel. I will do that once I can even get the thing to start and idle.

EDIT: I mean re: fuel in oil.

7:45PM - Zero progress. With the 550cc map I have, I have tried just about everything imaginable in the range of +3% to +25% injector on-time and 0-30 for cranking enrichment values. At least 50 combinations. Not a single sputter or cough. Stock ECU starts the car right up, so it's nothing mechanical in my car. I am at the end of the road with ideas to try.

Phil has told me I am on my own with my stock injectors, so if anybody is waiting for Phil to chime in, don't -- let me hear your ideas.

It is beyond me how one can have a map for 550cc injectors and try for 3 days to get the car to give a SINGLE significant combustion event... unless the Hydra or harness is bad.

Yeah, don't under estimate how difficult it is to get a car running with a stand alone when youd don't have a base map. I managed to get this done in about 5 minutes but I had another customer with stock injectors that also struggled the same as you. I may have a copy of his fuel map somewhere which I know will start the car but it's was pretty bad elsewhere.

Honestly with all that time you spent trying to make a stock injector map I think you may have been better off just installing your 550cc injectors and starting with the 550 base map ;) There just isn't a whole lot of demand for a stand alone map running stock WRX injectors so this map so it was never made.

Send me an email to remind me about that map.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Ignore the crank enrichment for now. At zero RPM, set timing at the 1.3psi, 10mmhg, 85mmhg, and 160mmhg to zero. Same thing for 400rpm

Set fuel at 5ms for all those same cells. Save the map, downdownload it to the car, shut the down off and walk away for 30 seconds. Turn the ignition on, let it prime for 5 seconds, and crank for 5 seconds. If it doesn't catch, kick it up to 6ms of fuel in those ranges. Keep adding 1ms of fuel in those ranges, until you get to 10ms... if it doesn't start by then, it ain't gonna ever start and you have either a bad harness (which I'm REALLY starting to suspect btw) or a corrupted map.

I don't know what else to tell you man....

Ignore the crank enrichment for now. At zero RPM, set timing at the 1.3psi, 10mmhg, 85mmhg, and 160mmhg to zero. Same thing for 400rpm

Set fuel at 5ms for all those same cells. Save the map, downdownload it to the car, shut the down off and walk away for 30 seconds. Turn the ignition on, let it prime for 5 seconds, and crank for 5 seconds. If it doesn't catch, kick it up to 6ms of fuel in those ranges. Keep adding 1ms of fuel in those ranges, until you get to 10ms... if it doesn't start by then, it ain't gonna ever start and you have either a bad harness (which I'm REALLY starting to suspect btw) or a corrupted map.

I spent several hours Saturday doing that -- fuel map changes only, and only for 0RPM and 400RPM around 1.3psi, 10mmHg, next one to the left, next one to the left (which may very well be 85 and 160 as you mention above).

I will try again though. The battery is charged up again as of a half hour ago...

It's nice to know I was on the right track. I will do it exactly the way you state though (5 for all, then up 1, etc) as a last ditch effort. If the thing doesn't cough in those tests, something has GOT to be wrong with the Hydra or harness, which will be a great condolence to me because I am at the point with this where I feel like I am starting to lose my sanity :) One can only crank a car so many times in 3 days with sweeping changes up and down a range and not hear a peep from the engine before starting to lose it.

I too have the suspicion that I have been cranking my car for 3 days with a bad harness, but I am stubborn and persistent.

Yeah, don't under estimate how difficult it is to get a car running with a stand alone when youd don't have a base map.

Interestingly enough, I waved my hands around a lot this afternoon with various guesses for numbers and came up with 5.something ms for 400RPM, 12:1 AFR, 1997cc, 440cc/min injectors, 60% VE. :lol:

I knew my EFI-101 class book would come in handy someday :)

Phil, do you agree that starting at 5ms on up to 10ms (which is over twice the time in your 550cc map for this load/RPM site) in 1ms increments will prove this is or isn't a problem with the harness/Hydra?

For each of 5-10ms, I did the following just now and got no different results:

Set 160mmHg through 1.3psi and 0RPM through 800RPM to the current value.
Saved the map as a new map name (5ms.s20, etc).
Exited "Maps"
Downloaded to ECU
Ignition off for 30 seconds
Ignition on, fuel pump primes and stops
Upload from ECU
Check values in fuel map, always was as expected
Crank car
100% TPS, crank car again to flush fuel out of cyls supposedly
Crank car
Start over again with new values

Honestly with all that time you spent trying to make a stock injector map I think you may have been better off just installing your 550cc injectors and starting with the 550 base map ;)
And when I finished installing them, the car still didn't start for some reason and I put my stock ECU back in...

"Just stay in closed loop and clear the codes as they pop up..."

One hole in the foot at a time, Phil :)

Hydra Boost Control in a Nutshell

Three main players:
1) Boost Target (Select-->Control2-->Boost target)
2) Boost Control Settings (Select-->Settings-->Boost Control Tab)
3) PWM Map 4 (Select-->2D PWM-->PWM Map 4)

The discussion below pertains to a boost control plumbing like the stock (restrictor, T-fitting, solenoid normally closed) or in an 'interruptor' mode (restrictor or not, solenoid IS the T-fitting, 3 way solenoid normally open).

Boost Target
These values at each RPM have the least to do with actual control of any of the boost control parameters. I would go so far to say that the main purpose of the value in each column is to set an "boost cut" value which is 3 psi above the set value. From brief experimentation it seems that the target value may have a very minor effect on the actual boost level, but that would in the +/- 1 psi range.

Boost Control Tab Settings
There are four main values here: RPM onset, Proportional, Integral, and Derivative. Phil's Tuning Guide goes through these values but I'd like to add some additional insight based on altering these values.

The RPM onset value is the RPM at which the boost control system starts to operate. The only thing to consider here is that you begin trying to control boost before boost is present. A lower value in the RPM box will give you a bit of a running start if you are trying to raise boost with a small solenoid. In other words, opening the solenoid at 1500 RPM may permit higher boost than opening it at 2500 RPM.

PID controllers are not really applicable to things like a solenoid that only has two states--on or off. PID control is easier to understand with something like an oven where you can vary the "proportion" of the heat by turning up the gas incrementally.

A boost control solenoid is not an oven. You have two states, on or off. In terms of proportion you can only be on. The same is true for adjustments at the D, derivative level, you are either adjusting on or off, no in between. The integral, I value, is the only one that matters much in boost control You can look at it as bias toward being on or off. If the value is over 1/2 of 255 (127.5) the bias is toward "on" or an open solenoid valve.

Phil has the PID values set at 175, 165 , and 45. You can change these values all you want, but the integral value is the only one that will have much of an effect. Raising the integral will tend to raise boost (somewhat). We are talking at most a couple of psi here, no more. These values, like the boost target value, are really fine tuning boost.

Generically, if you need to "activate" something to raise the boost:
P must be >= 127.5
I can be varied somewhat to raise boost, values between 125 and 200 seem to work best (always less than P)
D only effects how "active" the boost control system is, that is how often it "checks" the boost. Values of 25-50 all work fine, anything more does nothing.

So what is really controlling boost? PWM Map 4

PWM Map 4
PWM stands for pulse width modulation. The basic idea here is that the Hydra is sending a current to open (or close) the boost control solenoid. The faster the pulse width the more the percentage of time the valve is open. Its the same as the fuel injectors.

I experimented with all different shapes of curves in Map 4: linear increasing, linear decreasing, asymptotically approaching a value, parabolic, hyperbolic..... Here is the long and short of it. You want to start in the 5-15 value range on the far left (0%) and you want to end at 100 on the far right (100%). In between, you want to keep values low until you get close to the 100% column, at which point the values rapidly climb to 100. This gives you the fastest boost rise, and holds boost.

If you log data with the Hydra you'll see that the majority of the time under WOT the Hydra spends it's time in the 80-85% range of the PWM map. At low RPM it's at 100% and the solenoid valve is "open/active" all the time. As you get close to YOUR boost target (not the one you set in the Hydra) the solenoid backs off on it's duty. As the boost peak is reached the solenoid duty will drop into the 70s or 60s and quickly bounce back up into the 80s.

If you are like me and have a dinky turbo, my boost tapers from 18 psi to 12.5 psi. I can make the turbo hold a bit more boost by raising the values in the 80-90% columns. Thus, instead of a pure exponential curve, I have an exponential curve with a bump in it.

Here are my values across the board:
16 16.8 18 19.2 21.2 23.2 24.8 26.4 28.8 31.6 35.2 39.2 56.4 66 72.8 100

For the VF39 and GM solenoid that gives you a peak boost of 18 psi tapering to around 13.5. Use a different turbo, a different solenoid, and your curve will be different to achieve the same effect.

The two values that will most effect the "boost peak" are in the 73% and 80% columns. Raising these values will have a linear effect on the boost peak if the shape of your curve is like mine. Determining which of the columns will raise or lower the peak is just a matter of logging the data to see where the "boost valve %" is just prior at at the boost peak. Lowering the values at the logged percentage will lower the boost peak.

The one thing I feel pretty sure will always remain no matter what components are used, is the general shape of the curve--like an aircraft take off.

Summary So the summary is: PWM Map 4 is you main boost control point, the other systems/control points are pretty much fine tuning. The "Boost Target" is really there to set a "Boost Cut" which occurs 3 psi above the Target value.

If you are using something like a stepper motor to control boost, the PID values will become more important. Remember the Hydra was not built for the Subaru, but as a generic control system. For our cars, and the majority of boost control systems that Subaru users use, PWM Map 4 is the money for controlling boost and I believe the above advice will hold true for those single solenoid based systems.

Thanks man! I have added this to the first post with attribution.

Hey jblaine, first thanks for starting up this thread. Am I right your car has never started witht he Hydra? If so, I know you mention recharging your battery, but I think you might just need a more powerful battery. I was using the stock battery with mine, and it didn't take much for the battery to lose charge enough that it couldn't start the car (I was running my notebook through the cigarette lighter). I got a cheap but much higher output battery from Costco and it works fine. As you probably know, the sequential firing start of the Hydra needs a more powerful battery to get the car started than the stock ECU.
Just thought it would be a lot quicker for you to try a more powerful battery than all the more complicated stuff you're getting into.

Next I like to do a post that is something like: Getting the Most Out of Nemesis 2.14 v7.

There are a lot of little tuning nicities in the Nemesis software that can aid in tuning. Some are present in all of the 2.14 versions and some only work in the v7. DarthChicken could help out on a post like this alot. Phil knows the most, but putting down at lease what has already been worked out my common users would be a huge boon to tuning for the general community.

YES. Please. I don't understand how this stuff is not documented clearly in release notes, etc. :mad:

A boost control solenoid is not an oven.
:lol:

Well. Nothing's changed here. Tonight I jacked the car back up, recalibrated the WB02 sensor, took the stock out, plugged the WB02 in, unplugged the stock ECU, plugged the Hydra in ... and tried 5.5ms, 6.5ms, 7.5ms, 8.5ms, 9.5ms.

Nothing.

Phil, I want to be a patient customer and wait for your 440cc "starts but runs like crap" map, but I just don't see that I can do anything further here unless you have a rabbit in your hat to pull out. If I heard even the FIRST cough or sputter by now, I would be honing in on the tuning aspect of it, but everything from 5 to 10ms in .5ms increments has been tried now and I am at the end of my pointless cranking song and dance.

I don't even care about starting and idling for 1 second at this point. To not hear a single noise out of all of that is telling to me, but perhaps I am just naive.

Another day down the tubes.

Hmmmm...... how can I help you jb. I've got one idea, PM me with your email address and I'll send you some screen shots that might help out. I'm not promising anything, but as long as your putting days down the tube-- it can't hurt.

jeff, are you sure you're getting spark?

jblaine -> I am not sure if this could have any bearing on your problems, but it may be one of the easier things to check.

it was droping down to 10.4V during cranking, then barely 12+V
The Hydra Standalone EMS acts up when it sees those low voltages and it will not start the car below ~10.8V , the stock ECU works fine - The Hydra has 3 processors so it power hungry...

Now if I can just figure out what happened to my throttle I will be back to the joys of the Hydra. It seems that everything was running great on the initial map I set up from Phil's original map with only the WBO2 calibrated. It seems after about 30 minutes of driving I completely lost my all throttle response and my idle shot up to a steady 2250rpm's. The TPS gauge on the Hydra software even reads zero no matter how much I push the accelerator down. I tried downloading the map to the ECU again and several other little things with no luck. I let my car sit for about an hour and then when I started it I pumped the pedal three times and had response before it went away again. Now I am back on the stock ECU waiting for the next reply from Phil.

offset

bboy: PM sent

Ken: Nope. And I'm not shooting the messenger when I say this... and maybe I expect too much... but the way I see it at this point, a new harness should be tried before I go ripping my car apart or buying a new battery. I tediously 2amp-slow-charge the battery to full charge every time the Hydra reports less than 11 volts in all of this trying. If this thing can't start a car with 11+ volts, I don't want it, frankly.

Hydra EMS USA has stated firmly that the car should have started (and run like crap) well past now with any of the fuel map settings above -- as one would expect. I have an appointment, so to speak, to call them from the car this afternoon to look over the wiring harness.

It's easy to pull one spark plug and have someone ground it to something (or if you're evil themself) while you crank the car.

When you start it with the stock ECU does the car bog and stutter for awhile? That would be an indication of it being flooded. If not it may not be activating the injectors.

It's easy to pull one spark plug and have someone ground it to something (or if you're evil themself) while you crank the car.That's the next step after the harness checks out or doesn't. None of my friends live near me, so it will be a matter of asking a stranger/neighbor to crank my car or bothering one of them to make the trip.

When you start it with the stock ECU does the car bog and stutter for awhile? That would be an indication of it being flooded. If not it may not be activating the injectors.Yes, it flops along for 4-5 seconds at start with stock ECU then runs pretty rich (seen at tailpipe) for a good 20 seconds and settles down. I can smell the fuel during Hydra cranking.

Can't I test the spark with just the coil pack off somehow?

FWIW, the car does not start with the 420cc map from Phil.

Well, are you ready for this?

The car starts. It idles. It drives.

The problem? After almost 2 hours on the phone with Hydra EMS USA, it was found that almost every single trigger and output was completely wrong for a Subaru (these are locked by the tuner, and Hydra EMS USA unlocked everything for me with a password to check on this).

Once fixed, the car started right up and idled.

:furious: :furious: :furious:

I want to make a point to thank Hydra EMS for their extensive step-by-step problem solving with me today. They initiated the contact with me yesterday due to a thread I started in their forums, and followed up with me today as planned until everything was straightened out.

Now it's time to overdose on tylenol for this splitting headache, eat something before I fall over, and go deal with my tax appointment! Sweet!

Well, are you ready for this?

The car starts. It idles. It drives.

The problem? After almost 2 hours on the phone with Hydra EMS USA, it was found that almost every single trigger and output was completely wrong for a Subaru (these are locked by the tuner, and Hydra EMS USA unlocked everything for me with a password to check on this).

Once fixed, the car started right up and idled.

:furious: :furious: :furious:

Well I can't say that I'm glad is was so simple and I never thought of it. :confused: Just for the record the triggers are set by Hydra EMS and not overwriten by Element Tuning. I do not have access to overwrite the triggers but it looks like I need to program the triggers just to make sure they are correct from now on.

Wasn't your tachometer boucing around when you trying to start the car?

I'm glad you're running!

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

It was bouncing here and there (twitchy) from 0 to 150RPM.

It was bouncing here and there (twitchy) from 0 to 150RPM.

LOL! I know you read Element Tuning Guide 3:

"Crank Triggers Incorrect:

This is rare but if the crank triggers are wrong the Hydra will not see 2 syncs of the crank and therefore will not attempt to start. A tell tale sign of wrong triggers is no RPM reading (monitor with Hydra software) while cranking the car or the tachometer needle bounces."

The Hydra read 0-150RPM during cranking.

I should have been more clear in the 1st post. They both displayed movement/reading. It went up to 150 or so (yes, on the Hydra too), 123ish, 0, and would jump back up to 100-150 here and there.

"The RPMs on dash and in the software blip up around 120RPM or so now and then during cranking." Page 1 of this thread, Saturday 4/2/2005.

This was one of the first things Hydra EMS had me try on the phone.

You'll have to excuse me, too, if I'm not finding your humor in it.

I apologize for your misfortune but I have to find the humor in this as I now know on top of having to write tuning guides, I now have to reprogram even the triggers that are already supposed to be configured to a specific application, and on top all that I'll probably even have to write a basic owners/operations manual which should be provided by the manufacturer.

Just so you understand, I personally program every single ecu and after the program is complete, I reboot the system, upload the map, and save it to a hard drive. This way I know what data is contained and have a record of every single unit that is programmed when it leaves Element Tuning. The outputs were correct when the unit left Element Tuning but I cannot verify the triggers for you as it is something again that I do not have access to overwrite and they appear with "locked" values.

All I can say is, I apologize for the inconvenience but somewhere along the line the base file was corrupted and I wish I could have figured it out sooner for you. Hopefully I can be of more assistance when it’s time for you to tune.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

I almost wish I could blame someone, because the battery has just about been destroyed charge-wise at this point and my 800-mile-old oil needs changing... but it does no good in the end.

It was a disappointing experience. I feel a unsettled as a customer because of how this has gone over the last 4 days... But it's over, and armed with the autopsy, nobody else should have to go through this.

Moving forward.

congrats jeff. i hope your sailing is smoother from this point on! :eek:

I got an email from Phil (who has been very helpful keeping up correspondance on my issue) that Hydra would like to take a look at my ECU to try and figure out why the TPS shows zero all the time now.

Well in an interesting turn of events I heard from Aaron (aka Antimullet) who said he started having some minor TPS flutter issues. So he was talking to Andrew at Hydra about it and here is the response he got...

Here's what ANdrew at Hydra said:
It seems that the 04 and 05 Stis have a weak Ign switch output which feeds power to the Hydra ECU. Most cars when running will show anywhere from 12.8-13.8 on the real time battery volts window. However the 04-05 Stis seem to be showing anywhere from 10.2-11.5v. This voltage is way too low for the hydra to run properly and that is why the DBW safety circuit is cutting in. At this time we will like to have all 04-05 Stis units sent back to us for additional hardware and software to fix this problem. We will take care of shipping both ways. Sorry for the inconvenience.

I really hope I am not out of line for posting this as it could start a big ruckus, but it might really be beneficial knowledge (especially for this thread). It seems most of us knew there were a lot of power concerns, but this sounds like it may verify that it isn't just a one or two person problem. Of course I look at this in a positive way since it appears Hydra is going to take charge of the problem and see about getting it corrected.

offset

I almost wish I could blame someone, because the battery has just about been destroyed charge-wise at this point and my 800-mile-old oil needs changing... but it does no good in the end.

It was a disappointing experience. I feel a unsettled as a customer because of how this has gone over the last 4 days... But it's over, and armed with the autopsy, nobody else should have to go through this.

Moving forward.


....and from one man's point of view, you have handled this episode admirably.

Glad to see you got it running. Now on to the fun part. ;)

S.

I got an email from Phil (who has been very helpful keeping up correspondance on my issue) that Hydra would like to take a look at my ECU to try and figure out why the TPS shows zero all the time now.

Well in an interesting turn of events I heard from Aaron (aka Antimullet) who said he started having some minor TPS flutter issues. So he was talking to Andrew at Hydra about it and here is the response he got...



I really hope I am not out of line for posting this as it could start a big ruckus, but it might really be beneficial knowledge (especially for this thread). It seems most of us knew there were a lot of power concerns, but this sounds like it may verify that it isn't just a one or two person problem. Of course I look at this in a positive way since it appears Hydra is going to take charge of the problem and see about getting it corrected.

offset

You're not out of line as this was posted on the Hydra forums already. While it's not a widespread problem as I can count the number of cars on one hand it's a problem that needs to be addressed. I started noticing this on a couple of cars where the voltage would drop below 12v while the car was running so I have been making a habit of asking customers to check their voltage. Hydra EMS flew in one of the engineers to investigate this, identified the problem, and planned a course of action to rectify this as quickly as possible. Even if your particular car does not have this issue it would be wise to have the unit upgraded since it will only cost you a couple of days of downtime.

I’ve already contacted some and will be emailing the rest so the units can be shipped in waves and not all at once to minimize downtime.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

You're not out of line as this was posted on the Hydra forums already. While it's not a widespread problem as I can count the number of cars on one hand it's a problem that needs to be addressed. I started noticing this on a couple of cars where the voltage would drop below 12v while the car was running so I have been making a habit of asking customers to check their voltage. Hydra EMS flew in one of the engineers to investigate this, identified the problem, and planned a course of action to rectify this as quickly as possible. Even if your particular car does not have this issue it would be wise to have the unit upgraded since it will only cost you a couple of days of downtime.

I’ve already contacted some and will be emailing the rest so the units can be shipped in waves and not all at once to minimize downtime.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com


Hey Guys, just want to give props to Phil at Element for his great customer service on this issue, and to Andrew at Hydra for being so helpful and explaining the exact issue. This is the kind of customer service that makes for a successful business. And no I'm not sponsored by either party and I'm not a buttshark, like I've stated before... :lol:

yeah - true about Hydra flying one of the engineers all the way from Singapore! I loaned my car to Hydra to test and find what the problem is - as I had that problem. Andrew flew to Los Angeles - picked up my car and drove it back to the Bay Area and drove it back to L.A. a week ago.
So far, it seems a few cars suffer from the low voltage problem- mine is one of them. I wander if there's a way to "hardwire" the Hydra's power supply by means of a relay - circumventing the weak Subaru electrical system that supplies the juice. Hydra's response has been fast to fix this and I really hope the problem, is solved.

Antimullet: I agree, so far Hydra (Phil & Andrew) have been quick to tackle the problem and look for a solution. They mobilized promptly and are working on a fix - and according to Andrew - the problem was found and can be fixed! Their interest in fixing the problem , prompted me to loan my car to Hydra for a week. Well in the end it would benefit me, as well as the STi - Hydra community!

I recently ordered an Optima Yellow top and a H.O. Alternator - just to improve the electrical system and so I won't have to get rid of my radio, amps, alarm, gauges....

Does anyone else have trouble logging? I can't get it to work at all.

I go to Tools -> Log data. Window pops up. I click Start and I see values getting recorded. I drive (as little as 10-20 seconds). I pull over and click Stop. I try to save and am told that I need to export to Excel. I select Export to Excel and a progress box opens up, then within 1 second it bombs out with an error.

It has done this every time I have tried -- exact same behavior.

My disk is not full or anything ;) I have posted over in the official Hydra EMS forums, but things are slow over there...

I never hit save, I just hit export to excel, and it just exports. I assume you have excel? It opens up excel for you, and drops it in.. no excel, no work.

for those of you guys on a budget or broke from already paying for your hydras theres a free word suite which contains excel called openoffice and can be found at www.openoffice.org Its a great replacement and best of all its free. hth

Does anyone else have trouble logging? I can't get it to work at all.

I go to Tools -> Log data. Window pops up. I click Start and I see values getting recorded. I drive (as little as 10-20 seconds). I pull over and click Stop. I try to save and am told that I need to export to Excel. I select Export to Excel and a progress box opens up, then within 1 second it bombs out with an error.

It has done this every time I have tried -- exact same behavior.

My disk is not full or anything ;) I have posted over in the official Hydra EMS forums, but things are slow over there...

The new software 2.14v7 is very processor and RAM intensive to run. I had this problem with my old laptop and no kidding it took 5 minutes to export. I needed a new laptop anyway so I got an inexpesive Dell for about $650 and it exports instantly.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Phil, it won't even export. It errors out almost instantaneously.

So, unless I am misunderstanding what has been said...

- since "Save" doesn't work, and it apparently "Exports" by loading Excel itself instead of exporting to a .CSV file or something...
- and I don't own Excel...
- and I don't see that there is any way to configure it to load OpenOffice's spreadsheet program...

I have to buy Excel now!?

for those of you guys on a budget or broke from already paying for your hydras theres a free word suite which contains excel called openoffice and can be found at www.openoffice.org Its a great replacement and best of all its free. hth
You've used OpenOffice's spreadsheet app with the Hydra's data logging function?

I don't even know why there is a save feature as it has never been functional. To export the data log you must have Excel as it lauches the program and then you can see the data logs.

Personally I think it would be best for it to export a data file and I've put my request in ;)

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

:huh:
Lame.

So, I was reading the AEM EMS WRX application notes ... ;) ... and I noticed this which might be of use to someone with a Hydra looking for a simple solution to this (I know this has been discussed before):
The MAF (mass air flow) sensor can be removed to help eradicate intake air restriction as the base map uses the factory MAP sensor for engine load detection. However, the WRX/92X uses a 5 Volt-Type MAF sensor that, by design, includes the IAT (intake air temperature) sensor as one-piece. If air temperature corrections are needed, AEM has an IAT Sensor Kit (P/N 30-2010), which comes complete with the sensor, wire connector, and an aluminum weld-in bung.
Yes, I know. Blasphemy.

jeff, re: office, how fast is your i-net connection?

ken

768 DSL -- I downloaded OpenOffice to my tuning laptop and am gonna see if the Hydra software has any smarts at all to handle anything but Excel. In fact, I'll run down and try it real quick.

Yeah - let us know
otherwise - I got a "trial" version of Office XP you can download/burn and "test" then if you like it & it does what you want you can run to your nearest electronics/software store and purchase a license from Bill Gates
But you'll need a cd burner.... and I'll have to wait to get home @ 5pm to upload ....
PM me or post here if you still need it !

Negative

I am pretty sure I can get it through work's unlimited license. I will PM one of you if that doesn't work. Thanks guys. This is stupid.

Open file, get filehandle, loop over log data, write it to the frickin file with commas between values, close the filehandle! Software engineering rocket science apparently.

MS Office - should do the trik - just select "export" and wait a while (or long while if your laptop is 300 Mhz like mine)

Open file, get filehandle, loop over log data, write it to the frickin file with commas between values, close the filehandle! Software engineering rocket science apparently.
I don't see any error checking in that :p

offset

try and determine how the hydra is "finding" excel and rename the corresponding openoffice program the what its looking for and where. not sure what other checks it might do against the program but it would be interesting to know if it can be done. hopefully Ill have my car back on the road soon so I can help test. gl2u jblaine.

Yeah, I opened the hydra binary in an editor and poked around looking for excel references. I didn't really find anything that looked promising for changing.

I have a coworker who is downloading the Office 2003 "STD" .iso image from Microsoft's Developer Network, which we have a subscription to. I will use Excel from that until this is fixed.

Well, that saga is over (http://www.hydraems.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=55).

I'm so demanding wanting to save my log files without additional commercial software! :lol:

Phil, it won't even export. It errors out almost instantaneously.

So, unless I am misunderstanding what has been said...

- since "Save" doesn't work, and it apparently "Exports" by loading Excel itself instead of exporting to a .CSV file or something...
- and I don't own Excel...
- and I don't see that there is any way to configure it to load OpenOffice's spreadsheet program...

I have to buy Excel now!?

You have to export to Excel inorder to save. It's a bummer. 2.14 v7 is the most bug ridden of the versions. I'm going back to v5. I'll wait for some of the bugs to get out before I use the newer v7 "features".

Edit Change: One bug in v7, the "reversing" of arrow keys can be changed in the Preferences I'm informed by Phil.

I apologize for your misfortune but I have to find the humor in this as I now know on top of having to write tuning guides, I now have to reprogram even the triggers that are already supposed to be configured to a specific application, and on top all that I'll probably even have to write a basic owners/operations manual which should be provided by the manufacturer.


"I'll probably even have to write a basic owners/operations manual which should be provided by the manufacturer."

I'm surprised that Hydra did not supply a manual to you Phil. If anyone would need it, it would be you. My hope is that this thread will serve as a de facto manual for the Element Hydra.

Edited to preserve the spirit of the message and thread.

This thread was supposed to be helpful but it has turned sour. I will no longer post on this thread.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

This thread was supposed to be helpful but it has turned sour. I will no longer post on this thread.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

:(
unfortunate it did

Er.... what does your knock threshold map look like?

Anything like this?

http://www.kickflop.net/temp/knock-threshold.gif

This thread was supposed to be helpful but it has turned sour. I will no longer post on this thread.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com
Great... *sigh* :(

So this is what it comes to now? We have a small company and a small-volume product, therefore we're obligated to only say positive things or everyone cries and starts "rubbing you out" or cold-sholdering you?

Fantastic.

Mine knock curve looks like that.

If 'sour' is 'problems' that's too bad since this thread is to fix problems. The Hydra has a few and so does the Nemesis software. If you want to stop people from venting their frustrations--that won't happen. God invented light and two seconds later some farmer was complaining about it.

Phil you have done a great job tuning but now that you have a few hundred users and some of them have had serious problem, some have had ones in the more 'annoying' category-- what are you going to do? Flee everytime the volume gets turned up?

I'll stop complaining about XXXXX, but it's pretty damn hard. This person was, has been, and continues to be a complete nuisance to Hydra owners. IMHO people need to know XXXXX is not to be trusted. If you have problems with the Hydra take them to Phil or these forums.

If there are issues beyond your control Phil, I'm willing to see that and I think most of us are. We knew we were buying a "brand new" system. We can accept a few bugs in the software. We work around some quirkiness. We can rewire harnesses for boost control to make them work with the idea that the design will be changed. As a rule this group is a pretty self-sufficient bunch.

What we can't deal with is dissembling .....**self-censored**. It's not fair to us. Most of the units work great, many users don't ever tune with the software, so they don't have issue with it. Call Phil if you have a problem with your Hydra. PM me I'll do what I can, or point you to who can.

Please keep posting to this thread Phil--you are the sole resource for accurate Hydra info. You, your tuning guides, and the consolidation of info in this thread, are the total written universe of Hydra tuning for the Subaru. While I may seem sour and other's may seem sour, maybe some of the sourness serves a purpose that has nothing to do with Phil/Element Tuning. Maybe the 'sourness' has more to do with the writer's frustration.... *self-censored*. Certainly my writing does.

Mine knock curve looks like that.
Well, that'd be my problem then. That was extracted from a 550cc map sent from Phil. The one in the 420cc map I got from Element looks nothing like that.

No wonder I can't make any sense of the ridiculous timing retard I am seeing all through vacuum ranges at sub-4000RPM and 10 or so events in low boost.

+2 more days wasted screwing around trying to fix a misconfigured setup.

Complain and discuss your problems at will. I have never discouraged anyone from doing so. Anyways the squeaky wheel always gets the grease and jblaine is the poster child for that one. Somehow he managed to get a data dump from the logger instead of exporting to Excel with two days of complaining yet I’ve been requesting that for a year.

Where I drew the line was when the OWNER of Hydra EMS was called a “blatant liar.” I cannot condone this nor continue to post here because of it.

Start a new thread if you want or need my help and of course you can email or call.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Complain and discuss your problems at will. I have never discouraged anyone from doing so. Anyways the squeaky wheel always gets the grease and jblaine is the poster child for that one. Somehow he managed to get a data dump from the logger instead of exporting to Excel with two days of complaining yet I’ve been requesting that for a year.
Just a matter of being a vocal customer pointing out a lack of functionality with the paid product.

Contrasted with "I would like it if...", as a customer/distributor already owning Excel and getting by fine -- the customer ready to put his foot down and return the product if this failed functionality and flawed implementation is not addressed, wins.

EDIT: Added a few left out words

Well, that'd be my problem then. That was extracted from a 550cc map sent from Phil. The one in the 420cc map I got from Element looks nothing like that.

No wonder I can't make any sense of the ridiculous timing retard I am seeing all through vacuum ranges at sub-4000RPM and 10 or so events in low boost.

+2 more days wasted screwing around trying to fix a misconfigured setup.


Welcome to the world of standalone engine management.

No comment on that.

Anyway, here's a tip -- don't use your OEM ECU's DeltaDash logs (minus 1 degree) to try to get a non-knocking map. My low for a 16psi-peak run from 2000-6800 with the OEM ECU was 14 degrees. I am having to run 10-11 at greater than 11psi or so through my midrange. Now, whether the timing is that low because of actual knock or a poor Knock Threshold curve for my car, I don't know. I will certainly find out in time, as I am only rough tuning right now and using the Element Tuning Knock Threshold map.

jblaine:

I found anpther non-Nasioc Online Resource. I sent them an email for more info.

http://www.hydratuning.com

Welcome to the world of standalone engine management.

This is true, but not with respect to jblaine. At times I miss the coziness of EM tied to the stock ECU, but then I go to tune something and I'm so glad I have the Element Hydra.

Let's chip in and get jblaine a wheel chair for his poster child pic. We'll mod it with lots of stickers and an extra loud BOV.

Er.... what does your knock threshold map look like?

Anything like this?

http://www.kickflop.net/temp/knock-threshold.gif

In most engines normal engine noise generally rises with RPM so your knock threshold should also probably increase rather than decrease with RPM, mine sure does, I'd be happy to email you one of my maps so you can have a look if you like.

Regardless of that it would be best to get the car onto a dyno with an operator who has a set of 'ears' and can tell you if your car is detonating, the same operator should really also be able to fully tune your Hydra for you (assuming he has experience with similar products, Motec, Link, Autronic, AEM, etc) in fairly quick time.

Another option would be to fit a Knocklink or similar product to warn of detonation. I wouldn't recommend trying to tune a turbocharged car without either ears or a Knocklink and a wideband O2 sensor.

Regards,
Steve Coates
http://www.avoturbo.com

Thanks Steve. I'd like to see your KT map. Can you email it to jblaine AT kickflop DOT net?

I have a WBO2 setup and agree with you completely regarding dyno tuning and/or ears and/or knocklink. It's on the list :)

lowturboboost: Added, thanks.

Thanks Steve. I'd like to see your KT map. Can you email it to jblaine AT kickflop DOT net?

I have a WBO2 setup and agree with you completely regarding dyno tuning and/or ears and/or knocklink. It's on the list :)


You have mail. :)

I edited ALL my posts in the hope of Phil's return.

That knock curve is a good one. It's based on 1) stock knock sensor activity 2) phil's listening in with his Tuner headset. I would not change the shape of the curve unless you have good reason.

What you can do is select all the cells buy holding down the Ctrl key and arrowing across. Once selected, you can raise or lower the whole curve up and down the Y-axis. In this way you change the "ceiling" of the knock limit across the entire RPM range.

Here is a caveat to the knock limit map. Generally the knock limit is set while on a dyno or at least at WOT on the road. It's a good practice, since these are the loads where knock is most likely to occur. However, imagine partial throttle conditions or times of transition like during shifting. Detonation knows no boundaries, det can occur at less than WOT, during transitions, etc. The Hydra has some other fuel maps like the "dynamic" enleanment and enrichment maps that help to ameliorate knock during transitionary states (among other functions). That said you can still detonate at 3500 RPM in sixth gear and 10% TPS (that's what the knock correction is there to catch, so you don't have to tune every single condition).

Keep it up Jeff, your doing great!!!

I edited ALL my posts in the hope of Phil's return.
Let me say that I appreciate that and that I also hope Phil returns to this thread now. It is rare for some folks to know where the edit button is it seems.

offset

I guess my concern at this point with the knock threshold shown in the graph I posted is that I am running so much less timing under boost than my stock ECU settled down into with its adaptive timing.

With the "new" (to me) and proper KT map, my vacuum knock problem (all over) is gone.

Now it's just a matter of me scratching my head at having to run 10 and 11 degrees of timing advance through a large splotch of my map at 9+psi... to not register knock events. AFRs are 11:1.

My DeltaDash logs showed 16psi tapering to 14psi and only a single small area going as low as 14. The rest being a lot of 15, 18, 19, 20. AFRs were 11.5:1.

At any rate... yes, det cans of some sort are a start. I already have a simple mechanics stethoscope. I don't see why I can't just lengthen it so I can wear it in one ear while in the cabin driving.

I'll have to see if I can get some screen captures of the '+' trails immediately after a pull or two and I'll show you how crappy my timing is from 3200-5500 past 9psi.

jeff.. remember that the hydra may be more sensitive than your oem ecu was. in fact, i'd put money down that it IS more sensitive. as a result you're seeing some noise that would have gone completely undetected by your oem ecu.

i say this because i run with a utec that has all knock thresholds set 10 units higher than "normal". i used to think it was engine noise, not knock, that was getting picked up... until it went away with a degree or two less advance. the oem ecu never saw it at all. it was barely perceptible with electronic detcans.

ken

That's definitely the case -- the provided Hydra Knock Threshold map is configured significantly more sensitive than the OEM ECU's logic, at least in the areas I have hit so far.

I guess I am just a little confused about the shape of it and curious to hear how it was configured/determined. It does, after all, grow drasticly more sensitive as RPMs increase.

I'm sure the only way I am going to determine an appropriate shape/level for it is with det cans and a dyno.

I guess I was just under the misconception that I would have a reasonable starting point for my Spark map to tweak in a few areas where a few small knock events were being registered, and that's far from where I am right now. I feel like I'm making my own base timing map from scratch at this point to simply not knock. That seems "off" to me.

Well, I loaded up with 4/5ths 100 octane and had 1/5th of 93.

Here are various Knock Threshold "trail" results from pulls up to 14psi or so (some were to redline, some were not). This is with stupid-low timing in areas that have been causing me trouble, gradually decreased over time down to where I have them now (10 degrees as mentioned before).

http://www.kickflop.net/temp/racegas-kt-trails/Clipboard01.gif
http://www.kickflop.net/temp/racegas-kt-trails/Clipboard02.gif
http://www.kickflop.net/temp/racegas-kt-trails/Clipboard03.gif
http://www.kickflop.net/temp/racegas-kt-trails/Clipboard04.gif
http://www.kickflop.net/temp/racegas-kt-trails/Clipboard05.gif

And 10.8:1 AFRs from 4000-4800...

it DOES seem to follow the shape.

listening through the tuner pro headphones i can tell you that i hear a sharp increase in engine noise at around 4k. is that where your x axis scale points?

Your whole knock curve looks too low in the red rectangle. You curve is th approximate shape as mine, but mine sits higher in the box by about 10-15%

I'd lower your timing advance to 15 or less until you get the fueling right, then advance timing to the verge of knock. Phil's timing curve is very complicated, it makes the fueling look simple.

When I "track" knock and really run through gears to hit all the RPM range and loads I can. my knock readings profile follows Phil's knock threshold curve perfectly.

The fueling is right, now, except for extremely small additional corrections. I am hitting all target AFRs and have pulled/smoothed at least 8 times now, as well as logging to make sure everything is kosher.

The timing being used in those plots above was extreeemely conservative.

To make sure they weren't misfires, I loaded a timing map for a car Phil did, which is conservative, but far more advanced than "mine" is. The plotted trail from that is no different really.

I'm just going to keep raising the Knock Threshold without touching the timing further while I have this 100 octane tankfull. It (the timing map) is already conservative, and Phil said it should be fine.

FWIW, that Knock Threshold map was taken from the same map I got the timing from.

If yours is much higher, and mine needs to be much higher, why can't I seem to get my hands on a proper set of maps for a Subaru? This is getting ridiculous. I knew I would have to do the fuel map myself, and I have. All of the other major maps should be available and require minimal tweaking to just get a base non-optimized setup going.

Every step I take, I find out I have a bogus map or config setting -- not just a "bit off"

it DOES seem to follow the shape.

listening through the tuner pro headphones i can tell you that i hear a sharp increase in engine noise at around 4k. is that where your x axis scale points?
Yes, X axis there is RPM

So you want to run Decel Fuel Cut

If your as old as I am, you remember the rumble of deceleration under high vacuum of the old muscle cars. It sounded like the car was about to blow up, with the occasional back fire thrown in for excitement. You can relive those days by checking the Decel Fuel Cut box in Select-->Settings-->Setup-->Enable Decel Fuel Cut

Other than reminiscence, why do this? One it saves some fuel, and two, it gives a very different feel to the car--very responsive throttle.

OK, backfires can be fun, but they don't make you too popular with your neighbors, and paint a target on your car for the smokies. If you want to run the Decel Fuel Cut you will most likely need to tune for it to eliminate back-firing. Back-firing occurs when residual fuel is ignited in the exhaust. I'm not sure that backfires hurt much of anything (maybe the O2 sensor via vibration), but they can be startling.

1) first stop is the "Dynamic enleanment value" in the Select-->Settings-->Injection.

You want this value as high as possible for the most "enleanment" when the throttle shuts. Higher numbers, leads to less fuel, more enleanment. Read that again, it's backwards to other maps. I increased this value until the car started to buck at low RPM, no or low load, then back off one unit. Why the car bucks with too much enleanment is another story (think of: transmission/flywheel is turning the engine instead of the engine turning the transmission/flywheel). Find the value when the bucking stops. Mine is set to 122 (see below).

I experienced less back fire, but it still backfired especially on low speed partial throttle shifts.

2) next stop, "Dynamic Enrichment value" in Select-->Settings-->Injection.

If you find that while changing gears, right as you get on the gas pedal the car backfires, this is the place to tune to help eliminate that problem. The dynamic enrichment is there to add fuel during acceleration and rapid throttle openings. Without it, you can run lean as the air rushes in quicker than the fuel is delivered. Sometimes dEnrich adds too much fuel, and upon the initial throttle opening, the car will back fire. Lower this value to reduce the fuel addition during "enrichment". You don't want to go to low, the "dEnrichment" is very useful. I lowered mine from 85 down to 80. "On gas" backfiring was elliminated.

3) now for the die-hard backfiring. You have gotten it down to the occasional back fire or intermittent backfire, but no more can be done with the "dynamic" settings. Now its time to tune the fuel map itself.

Here is a great use for "autotune". Look at your AFR Target Table and make sure it looks reasonable particularly in the "vacuum" areas. It should be 14.7 most everywhere, creeping into the 13's at high RPM near 1 psi of boost. In Select-->Settings-->Closed Loop, check "closed loop" uncheck "DRQ long term learning" punch the "Wide Band Target Table". Also, set the Closed Loop max RPM to 7000. Autotune is explained in Phil's Element Tuning Guide 2, you must up load after autotuning, save, and download to make changes permanent.

Change the "Closed Loop Limit" to 0 mm Hg from 0-8000 RPM. This is the region we are tuning, you can always return these values when we are done.

OK back to Decel Fuel Cut tuning, run autotune and stay out to boost with your foot. Drive around in 2nd or 3rd gear, or whatever it takes, and 'hit' or 'drive through' as many of the RPM and Load ranges as you possibly can, as many times as you can--little or no boost. Massage the map. You'll feel it when the ECU pulls fuel. While your here, push the clutch in and rev the engine, hold it at 4000, 5000, 6000, rev slolwly, we are giving Autotune time to work on each load/RPM point. All you are doing here is pulling fuel out in the 'low load' parts of the fuel map, down to ~14.7 AFR.

Don't turn the ignition off!! You may be shocked how much fuel you pulled. You'll see it in the 3D graph.

Upload your autotuned map, smooth the map if you like, turn off autotune, reset the closed-loop max RPM to 4500 (or whatever), save the file and name it, and then download to the ECU.

You may find that the car now bucks (slightly) after removing fuel from the Main Fuel map with Autotune, I did. I upped my "dEleanment" to 123. Done.

This tuning session completely eliminated backfiring for me with Decel Fuel Cut. If you don't like the way the car drives now, you can always dis-Enable Decel Fuel Cut. It took longer to write this message than it did to tune, go figure. : Th th th th th that's all folks...still having trouble call Phil.

Jeff, I'm emailing you my knock limit pic.

BBoy, Great info I'll give it a try tomorrow.

Question about smoothing. On my map after autotone, I just filled in the areas around major peaks and valleys figuring it was erring on the side of rich.

I'm still trying to get a good visual and mental understanding of what a really smoothed map would look like. WHat are you guys shooting for as far as how the 3d map looks like when you are smoothing?

Are you going along the load or rpm lines, or kind of blending both. I blended both.

I get quite a bit of popping and sputtering off throttle just idling down my hill in 2nd and 1st gear on the way home (kinda like what you mention about decel cut). Do you guys think that's normal or do you think I could pull fuel out of the higher vacuum areas?

Just wondering cause I was also having the knock supposedly in the vacuum sites at low RPM (by viewing the timing map and seeing the red.).
However, a power pull in 3rd and 4th I've managed to get knock free by fuel and timing manipulation.


That brings another question to mind. Timing map.. Is there a safe way to "Smooth" this in or is it just a fact that your timing map is just gonna look chaotic??

Thanks,

Antimullet

jblaine,

email me your map and if you are using that customer's map as your base starting point there is a good chance the "knock amplifier" is enabled. If it is, turn it off.

Hey bboy, thanks for the great info. I won't be using it just yet (don't worry Phil), but I might do once I get the hang of the more basic stuff. Good to see Phil back on the thread too.

Well, due to the stupid post length limit, I cannot add bboy's new great post to the top post in this thread. I will add a pointer to it instead, but I am growing weary of forum limitations and am considering taking all of this information to a new medium where it can be rendered better and without limitations. I'll be sure to say if I do anything.

Phil: Knock amplifier is off already. I will email you my map in a few minutes. Thanks.

So you want to run Decel Fuel Cut

...

3) now for the die-hard backfiring. You have gotten it down to the occasional back fire or intermittent backfire, but no more can be done with the "dynamic" settings. Now its time to tune the fuel map itself.

Here is a great use for "autotune". Look at your AFR Target Table and make sure it looks reasonable particularly in the "vacuum" areas. It should be 14.7 most everywhere, creeping into the 13's at high RPM near 1 psi of boost. In Select-->Settings-->Closed Loop, check "closed loop" uncheck "DRQ long term learning" punch the "Wide Band Target Table". Also, set the Closed Loop max RPM to 7000. Autotune is explained in Phil's Element Tuning Guide 2, you must up load after autotuning, save, and download to make changes permanent.

Change the "Closed Loop Limit" to 0 mm Hg from 0-8000 RPM. This is the region we are tuning, you can always return these values when we are done.

OK back to Decel Fuel Cut tuning, run autotune and stay out to boost with your foot. Drive around in 2nd or 3rd gear, or whatever it takes, and 'hit' or 'drive through' as many of the RPM and Load ranges as you possibly can, as many times as you can--little or no boost. Massage the map. You'll feel it when the ECU pulls fuel. While your here, push the clutch in and rev the engine, hold it at 4000, 5000, 6000, rev slolwly, we are giving Autotune time to work on each load/RPM point. All you are doing here is pulling fuel out in the 'low load' parts of the fuel map, down to ~14.7 AFR.
Note to readers -- if you've spent a lot of time hand-editing your fuel values at idle to be something other than 14.7:1, don't forget that this will obviously clobber that work, so do it by hand + logging instead.

Your whole knock curve looks too low in the red rectangle. You curve is th approximate shape as mine, but mine sits higher in the box by about 10-15%
Per email exchange with you, for reader info, this is not the case. The main peak of your curve is about 1-3% higher than mine.

Optical illusion :)

^^^^^^ More like wishful thinking :D. The curve and "height" looks about right.

Alright, well, I spoke with Phil today (he called me after I sent him my map and examined it).

After fixing a setting that was incorrect, and learning from Phil to make sure not to pay attention to any trail marks in the Knock Threshold map that result from a snap-lift of throttle, it seems I have something reasonable for a curve to work with now. It's a little taller than probably typical, but I feel it's a pretty accurate representation of my car's noise level (Group-N mounts all around, FWTW).

It's a good thing, too, as my $45 100 octane fill up is almost gone :p

Phil, I realize the CEL will blink at a set interval under knocking conditions, but could you elaborate on the threshold that will cause that? It would seem that snap-throttle-lift false knock events do not throw the CEL, so there has to be some sort of logic to it.

Note to readers -- if you've spent a lot of time hand-editing your fuel values at idle to be something other than 14.7:1, don't forget that this will obviously clobber that work, so do it by hand + logging instead.

Good point, and this is the same reason I say to stay out of the boost area while autotuning the Decel Fuel Cut. Phil and I have invested a great deal of time into my WOT and other boost site maps. I did not want to jeopardize those parts of the map.

I have a method of combining maps (more like cutting and pasting large map chunks) but it's not ready for prime time, and I think we'll see a better method solution soon for the same purpose.

JB I'm sending a pic and a map.

Something I have noticed and need a sanity check on -- when logging, then pulling over to examine/massage the data, I am noticing that the bold black "visited" cells back in the fuel and spark maps are very minimal and not representative of the complete range I went through (by far).

Do others see this as well?

I've confirmed this ^^^. It happens even if viewing the Knock Threshold map (doesn't require logging or some other overlaying screen/window to deactivate the visited-cell-highlighting).

Seems one has to be viewing the fuel (or spark?) map to get the snail trail.

My settings to get a "decent" boost curve on a Vishnu Stage 1 setup. It oscillates a tiny bit, but does not spike (anything for integral higher than 100 was spiking badly for me). This is provided as a STARTING POINT for those who may have a similar setup.

- Bleed-hole fitting as provided by Vishnu
- TBE (1 cat in mine)
- Stock turbo
- Samco hoses
- JDM v7 STI TMIC

BOOST TARGET

Left to right (top to bottom below)
10.05
11.1
12.9
15.15
16.2
16.2
16.2
16.2
15.3
13.95
13.05
11.55
10.65
9.9
0
8.1
7.35

PWM MAP 4

Left to right (top to bottom below)
0
2.4
5.6
10.8
16.4
22.4
28.4
35.6
47.6
65.2
76
80.8
81.2
82.8
84.4
91.2

SELECT -> SETTINGS -> BOOST CONTROL TAB

1700 Start
160 P
80 I
45 D

NOTES

Boost valve % at WOT stays in the 57-60% area.

Added 'Various Notes' section to top post with some info.

"It has not been confirmed officially yet, but you must be viewing either the fuel or spark maps while driving for Autotune to work (90% sure)."

The Autotune works regardless of the map being viewed. The only requirement for Autotune to work is that your laptop is plugged in and the Nemesis software is running.

Map "tracking" requires you to be viewing that particular map.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Hm. Okay. I've deleted that note.

Here's what Autotune has determined my 420cc fuel map to be, for what it's worth.

Clearly the 18+psi area needs work by hand in case of an overboost situation. I'll get to it.

Any comments?

http://www.kickflop.net/temp/fuel-map.jpg

2.14v11 software and the May05 version of the "manual" can be found at the following link. I have not tried v11...

http://www.hydraems.com/america/Nemesis%20Software.htm


2.14V11

* Fixed bug where tracking cell disappears that was in 2D maps in Version7.
* Changed KPA to Absolute values.
* Added Comments option to keep track of modifications of map.
* Added option of text dump instead of excel dump for data logging.
* Added Miata Air temp sensor option.

Hydra Boost Control in a Nutshell

... text deleted ...

If you log data with the Hydra you'll see that the majority of the time under WOT the Hydra spends it's time in the 80-85% range of the PWM map.
53-70% for me the majority of the time at WOT

I still don't fully "get" the PWM4 map. Luckily, I have a sane/safe boost setup working anyway.

Phil, any word on the WI setup?

Has anybody noticed that auton-tune usually makes that small hump down there?
Jblaine has two humps... many has one, as I do as well.

Jblaine: Just smooth it out and test.

lowturboboost: I have found that the autotune humps are bogus. Once you're confident the area to the right of the hump is accurate (higher RPM), smooth from right to left to get rid of the hump, then adjust your autotune RPM range to start higher than where the hump ended.

Autotune on the ROAD, in my opinion, is really only good enough to get a rough starting point with a poor initial base fuel map. There is simply way too much going on.

Some other asides:

1. It is worth noting (since I've never seen anybody note it outright...) that tuning the main Nemesis fuel map properly for "normal conditions" requires that you are not in a coolant or air temperature range that is activating any fueling adjustments due to the Coolant Temp Trim or Air Temp Trim maps. That is, if you are cruising around tuning a low-load low-RPM portion of your fuel map with 100C coolant temperature (for instance) and your Coolant Temp Trim map is adding 1% fuel at that temperature, you do not want to target a 14.7:1 AFR.

2. Likewise, when tuning idle AFR, it is pointless to touch anything in the map until the Post Start Enrichment period has ended (roughly 70 seconds supposedly...).

3. For the reasons above, this is another reason I do not like using Autotune past the first few days of building a rough base map on the road.

4. A workaround, of course, is to set all of your Coolant Temp Trim and Air Temp Trim values to 0 from 40C to highestC ... while you are tuning. Then put them back as you see fit when you have a nice fuel map. Be attentive though.

That all may seem brutally obvious to some of you more experienced tuners, but it was something I started realizing on my own with no previous experience tuning.

Something else I learned: With a fresh tune planned, get your car functioning well enough to drive off boost. Go load up on high octane fuel. Spend the next few days building an 80% accurate fuel map, then focus on tuning your Knock Threshold map before you even begin to touch timing. Select Knock Threshold map. In a VERY safe place with somewhere to pull off and stop at the end, get into 4th gear and run it from 2200 to redline at WOT while noting the tick mark made right when you lift off throttle (that tick is NOT knock, and will likely be high on the graph). Pull over. Adjust the Knock Threshold map so that the highest marks are under your curve and are ALMOST touching it. Select Tools -> Reset Traces and check only "RESET KNOCK TRACE". Click OK. Repeat a few more pulls, making sure to note the throttle lift marks which are not knock, and adjust your Knock Threshold curve as necessary.

Then, if not making a race gas map, wait until your tank is empty and refill on your typical octane of choice. Do some low boost test pulls, noting of course the lift-throttle tick marks, work up from there, etc etc...

Just my 2 cents. Not a professional tuner.

EDIT: Changed "smooth left to right" to "smooth right to left" in the 1st paragraph

lowturboboost: I have found that the autotune humps are bogus. Once you're confident the area to the right of the hump is accurate (higher RPM), smooth from left to right to get rid of the hump, then adjust your autotune RPM range to start higher than where the hump ended.

1. It is worth noting (since I've never seen anybody note it outright...) that tuning the main Nemesis fuel map properly for "normal conditions" requires that you are not in a coolant or air temperature range that is activating any fueling adjustments due to the Coolant Temp Trim or Air Temp Trim maps. That is, if you are cruising around tuning a low-load low-RPM portion of your fuel map with 100C coolant temperature (for instance) and your Coolant Temp Trim map is adding 1% fuel at that temperature, you do not want to target a 14.7:1 AFR.

2. Likewise, when tuning idle AFR, it is pointless to touch anything in the map until the Post Start Enrichment period has ended (roughly 70 seconds supposedly...).

3. For the reasons above, this is another reason I do not like using Autotune past the first few days of building a rough base map on the road.

4. A workaround, of course, is to set all of your Coolant Temp Trim and Air Temp Trim values to 0 from 40C to highestC ... while you are tuning. Then put them back as you see fit when you have a nice fuel map. Be attentive though.

That all may seem brutally obvious to some of you more experienced tuners, but it was something I started realizing on my own with no previous experience tuning.



The way I did this, was I tuned the car with zero correction... THEN went back and tuned the correction maps. Example - tune the car at 90c coolant temp, 30c air temp. Get it perfect (ie 14.7 for example). Then go back and tune the correction maps, so when your air temp is 40c, you're still 14.7. 50C air temp... 14.7. Same thing with coolant temp, except I like to run my car richer at lower coolant temps (the car is smoother and less likely to have any issues.

Phil's base maps are good, but he can't account for elevation or humidity (dewpoint)... so whats good in one part of the country on an 80 degree day won't be PERFECT in another part of the country. Its definitly close though :D

So this is what it comes to now? We have a small company and a small-volume product, therefore we're obligated to only say positive things or everyone cries and starts "rubbing you out" or cold-sholdering you?

Fantastic.


dear lord alot of this sounds very familiar. and thats not a good thing. i got a hydra a while ago for my GM6 with a hybrid ej22t/rs engine ludespeed kit. basically without flaming phill or andrew or hydra ems at the time it seemed like from what i was getting as far as communication from phil and andrew i had a "very rare" problem. it was explained that way at least. i was given a similar description of major problems being limited to a very few number of cars (can count them on one hand, etc) but when told by andrew how many cars like mine (ie not new age wrx or sti's) he actually had running/trying to on a hydra it became clear that the percentage of problem cars was kind of scarey.

phil and andrew were great about communicating so i thank them VERY much for that, its always a help. BUT, if that communication doesn't lead to a solution due to hardware problems, software problems, traveling, limited personel, whatever, than the communication isn't worth very much in the end. and i believe that may be a reason for why threads like this and some ppl's opinions of this system have become "sour". its unfortunate and i wish it were different but it isn't.

now it seems as though hydra has come along since i got mine and had my problems but it seems as though some of the current issues are ringing some old bells for me and if nothing else i just want to say that you're not alone, and in the end it will work out whether it is with or without a hydra. needless to say i am no longer a hydra owner. it is, i hope, enjoying its new home down in puerto rico and i am selling everything that seemed to just turn out to be a bad combination in exchange for an ej205 swap with ecu.

the reflash capabilities are just too tempting to not go this route and in the end it turns out this is the better way for me. so just something to think about, there are solutions out there. it took me probably a month to get the car to start, the entire summer to get the car to idle and move on its own power (even if it wasn't pretty), and close to a year to get it where i was comfortable driving it regularly. it cost me a good chunk of money sending my unit back and forth for testing and attempted fixes.

i live in massachusetts. and unless you're near element tuning or andrew it seemed like there was no way to get accurate fixes made. i sent it back to get it put back the way it was when it was running poorly. it had been running and then as soon as i hit about 4k rpms it would fall on its face. it was violent and loud and i had no idea what the hell was going on. apparently i was losing my trigger signal, which another car in china i believe it was, was having the same problem. when i got it back from the initial attempt to fix this problem it wouldn't even start. the filters in the hydra at first would see trigger signal to start and run to 4k, then when i got it back the filters were too high and probably woulda seen trigger to 8k but couldn't see anything low enough to start.

at this point i needed to worry about getting back to school for the fall semester so i sent it back AGAIN so phil could just put it back the way it was so i could at least drive back to school in PA. i got it back and when it was all said and done the car started, ran, and pulled nicely to redline. if i recall correctly andrew had taken a guess at the filters or maybe it was the bad idle control module or something along those lines that when i got it back it was the way it should have been. something fairly simple, but easily overlooked, and ultimately something that never should have left the factory line with. i'm not sure why there are so many of these different little simple problems that are being allowed to be sent out with these units but in my opinion (and its just that) these problems should be caught and stop or ppl should cut bait and walk away.

i know i'm not a hydra owner technically anymore, and this is going to be looked on as a "sour" post, but you know what, i don't care. its what happened to me. in my eyes i'm seeing similar things happen, similar reactions, and i feel for ppl. not just on this thread but other places i hear it too. so take this information as you will, if it helps great, if not then forget it and don't worry about it. well everyone, i hope it all works out and you find a way to make it work.

RSEnigma,

Your situation was fairly unique and we have hundreds of customers without issues but with any product you’re bound to have defects, bugs, or incompatibility with certain cars. To this date I’ve only given 3 refunds and they were all due to defects in the product such as bad harnesses.

Your situation was unique in that you had a hybrid RS engine using a 22T bottom end, RS heads, a custom turbo kit, and RC injectors so there was no highly tested map for your application. You declined having your car professionally tuned which I understand as money doesn’t grow on trees but you were offered a full refund within weeks of your purchase but you declined this also.

My point is that defects or bugs happen but Hydra EMS and Element Tuning have always offered full refunds under these circumstances. If a refund is declined we make all reasonable attempts to correct the situation. We can’t make everyone happy with our product but we do our best.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

Phil, any word on the WI setup?

Richard Lamb at Aquamist wants me to continue testing until we have all possible scenarios fully tested. At this point we still have water capacity issues do the high power nature of our car. We need to increase the water flow on our setup but we are currently at about 475 whp on pump fuel.

I did have a chance to test this at a track event and it worked great but I definitely need to baffle the water tank for track use.

We're also looking at options to reduce the cost of the kit so we'll be testing some other components.

If you have any specific questions ask away.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
240.246.0302

Definitely some good tips in posts above.

In theory you should not have to worry about the air temperature correction map while tuning as it’s designed to maintain the same AFR at various intake air temps. It has been revised slightly over very early maps but it’s been tested for all conceivable temperature ranges. The coolant correction maps will affect the AFR so as suggested be aware of coolant temperature when tuning.

For the most part AutoTune is a god send but I’ve always told customers some manual finish work is required but it’s by far the fastest way to get your fuel map on target.

Humidity and elevation is going to have a large impact on AFR and this needs to be addressed on an individual level. A more advanced technique which will compensate largely for these conditions is to run closed loop, long term learning, and wide band target table. This way the ecu will always be compensating for various conditions and will target the AFR established in your Target AFR map. The key here is to make sure your Target AFR map matches very closely to the actual AFR of your main fuel map so only minimal corrections need to be made. On my car I run this from 300 rpm all the way to 4000 rpm as I don’t want a closed loop system when the car reaches full boost and peak torque incase the WB were to fail.

On a side note if you’re going to use closed loop at idle it’s best to target the AFR at 14.0 to 14.5 as the Hydra will cycle the AFR on the lean and rich side of the target but when the AFR is run leaner than 14.7 the idle can feel a bit rough.

Keep in mind my car produces about 475 whp on pump fuel and on a recent trip I recorded 350 miles to the tank running this configuration.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
240.246.0302

Added info to top post about USB-to-serial adapters and PCMCIA serial cards (in the Q and A section).

Phil, I am going to resize my load grid under Settings due to the fact that I need more resolution between the default 385inHg to 310inHg columns.

I idle at ~366 and my driving style around town is a lot of very light throttle cruising around 330-340inHg. Right now, I am suffering from interpolation across 385inHg to 310inHg. Given that I want to tune that very light throttle cruising for 14.5:1, but want to target ~15.5:1 at 385inHg, I don't see any other choice.

What maps will this resizing affect? Timing, fuel... what else? Not likely worth the hassle?

Phil, I am going to resize my load grid under Settings due to the fact that I need more resolution between the default 385inHg to 310inHg columns.

I idle at ~366 and my driving style around town is a lot of very light throttle cruising around 330-340inHg. Right now, I am suffering from interpolation across 385inHg to 310inHg. Given that I want to tune that very light throttle cruising for 14.5:1, but want to target ~15.5:1 at 385inHg, I don't see any other choice.

What maps will this resizing affect? Timing, fuel... what else? Not likely worth the hassle?

Most of the cars will idle around the 465-535 load site so there is plenty of resolution where it's needed but since your idle vacuum is so low it may be worth doing. You can get really creative with the “Gridy Setup” values and may be able to increase the resolution where you need it by decreasing the resolution below 366 mm/hg without significantly impacting the higher load areas of the map.

For 99% of our customers I would say it’s not worth doing if you’ve tuned most of your map since it shifts the fuel, spark maps, and the AVCS maps.

Thanks,
Phil
http://www.elementtuning.com
(240)246.0302

You can get really creative with the “Gridy Setup” values and may be able to increase the resolution where you need it by decreasing the resolution below 366 mm/hg without significantly impacting the higher load areas of the map.
Ah, good idea! I hadn't considered that. I'll poke around and see how awful it will be to fix up.

^^^ This worked, BTW. Took 10 minutes to figure out what was going on in the GRID Y screen and what I needed to do with it exactly, but... it worked fine.