Hi guys, I don't know if you guys saw my very first post, but I had a problem being able to view the threads, but I got it fixed, and now I'm here!

Anyways, I currently have a 2000 Eclipse GT Sportronic (manumatic, auto-manual, lazy guy's manual, whatever you want to call it :)). Anyways, I've had it for about a year now (bought it may, 2000). Love the car, but now I'm having issues with it. First, the backseat is useless. I DO have a life, so sometime's I like to drive around with my friends. So we all have to pile in. I'm a pretty big guy anyway, so that doesn't help matters. The people in the back end up involuntarily practicing their yoga skills. And it's even worse if I have 3 people in the back. So I need more rear-seat room. The engine in the Eclipse is alright. 200 HP V6, not bad. But sometimes I wish I had a little more power. I wish Mitsu kept the turbo and AWD. But, I still love the car, but I think it's time to think a little more practical. I need a 4-door car that can go fast. Then I can actually fit 2, even 3 people in the back a little more comfortably, and I can still drive fast.

So here is where you guys come in. I need help making a decision. I've narrowed my list down to two cars. Well...3, but I have no idea when the STi is coming out (and all I heard was that it was super fast). So I have to pick between the 2002 WRX Sedan Auto and the 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (2002's arent out yet).

I've talked to a few people about GTP's and they seem to be really great to drive and they are pretty moddable. Lots of room too. But I don't know about driving a midsize car. I like driving compact sedans because they seem to fit in certain spaces easier. But, I've heard of people running 12-13 sec. 1/4 miles with minimal mods. 0-60 is obviously not as fast as the WRX.

So what can you guys tell me to make me want to get a WRX?

First, I want an auto. It's just my thing. I've heard the whole "get a manual" speal, but no. I've heard m/t's running 5.8 0-60's, but I don't hear too much about the auto. Anybody got a good 0-60 and 1/4 mile time for the auto? I heard somewhere that the auto runs 6.4 0-60... That's a big difference! But hey, I guess that's what I get for wanting an auto, right?

Now for mods. I'm not really into modding, but maybe I will be. What are the simple mods for the WRX? Major mods? And is it possible to turn up the boost without doing anything else first?

So that's my dilemma. GTP or WRX? Help me sort out the differences. Thanks for any opinions you can give!

FunkeyCold (Dan)
Club 3G member
www.neweclipse.org

BTW...any info on when the STi is coming out? (sorry if any of what I'm saying has been asked before...I know how people hate answering the same questions over and over)

the STi will never come out in north america, its just a pipe dream some hold onto. I like the wrx, I drove one, its a cool car. Though I thought it would be a rough ride for everyday driving. the GTP is oddly big. it is a midsize, but just seems huge for its dimensions. I have another option for you. I know everybody here will say WRX, but I dont own one, so I will say why not pick up a used Taurus SHO. they are fast, the gen II's come fully loaded with options, and have four doors and tons of room. You can pick up a used SHO in remarkebly great condition with lower miles for under 10K. Just my thoughts on the subject. And just for refernce, with about 600 in mods, I can get my SHO to run 14.91 in the quarter. And it is an automatic. And with about 1200 in bolt ons, I have seen people running low 14's, around 14.3-14.0 all day. some with autos. not uber fast, but hey, its a family sedan, and on the highway, these things are damn fast. well, thats my thoughts on the subject. I would go with the WRX or the SHO. depends on what you are looking for.

Yeah, I've heard about those fast SHO's. But I'm probably not going to do a whole lot of modding. I would rather have a decently fast stock car than spend money and make it really fast. Also I personally have to have a car that has a unique 'look' to it. Like my Eclipse. It's styling is really unique. Same with the WRX. I never really did like the looks of the SHO. But that's just my opinion...no harm intended.

And as a side note.....I just got done reading a few posts arguing the manual vs. auto WRX thing. I kinda regret posting in www.i-club.com now. Here I am asking questions about an a/t WRX. By what I've read, auto's are not taken seriously. I know a few people do...i.e. Rifts and Kevin Thomas, and a few others. But the general idea is that a/t's are truly hated. Don't get me wrong...I know that one forum cannot speak for every owner. Other owners may have other opinions. But, hey, whatever floats your boat right? I'm still open to suggestions on getting a new car... Lol, I'm going to count how many people suggest getting a manual...

Dan

I agreed GTP is kinda large, not a very good ideal for sporty sedan. Four wheels drive which mean u can justa bout go anywhere with it, more rooms and still can perform like a Camaro. Ya it's the WRX.....
I don't think WRX is going to be any much faster than Eclipse, but with some modification on it you could get up some more horses out of it.

Or u can wait for Evo. VII to come to US beginning of next year (Maybe).
I not sure if it's true or not but i heard Evo. VII is going be equipted with a pretty much same as WRX but more Horses 276 HP and alittle roomy than WRX. Best of all :p 1.costless 2. starting at $19K.....

Pontiac:lol:

no no no. you need to take your mdication.

How can you comparethe two cars?

One is good and the other is a poorly made pile-o-crap

I'd rather have that car that Homer invented


Comparing the mitsu to the WRX is a lot closer to reason for what you are looking for. The WRX has a pretty comfortable back seat. It will deffinately be quicker and plus you get AWD. Go test drive one. Thats the only way to decide

Just don't buy the Pontiac..... PLEASE

well i had a 97 gs-t, and boy it was quick but when i drove by the subaru dealership and saw that blue 2.5rs sitting on the lot i had to get it...it isnt as quick as my old eclipse but just so much more fun to drive...the handling on the eclipse SUX(only my opinion)....and with you coming from a gs, a wrx would be an absolute blast. id go with the wrx.

People are so confused, for example, this quote:

Or u can wait for Evo. VII to come to US beginning of next year (Maybe) I not sure if it's true or not but i heard Evo. VII is going be equipted with a pretty much same as WRX but more Horses 276 HP and alittle roomy than WRX. Best of all 1.costless 2. starting at $19K.....

Let us get the facts straight. The EVO VII will probably not be here next year (kinda like the STi). The Mitsu Lancer (NOT Lancer EVO) will be here, with 130 HP starting at 19K. The EVO, if it ever does come here, will almost definately be over 30k.

HP V6, not bad. But sometimes I wish I had a little more power. I wish Mitsu kept the turbo and AWD.

yep... I was disapointed that Mistubishi dropped the AWD. bad move on their part. Just imagine the V6 with AWD... drool.... then add some kind of forced induction.... drooooolllll....

oh well. Just a note, the GTP is a POS in IMO. It rated at the bottom in every crash test done by the goverment.

For the safety reasons alone I would buy the WRX over the GTP, LOL, I go in the performance aspect except that "wider is stupid":)

Originally posted by StreetracerNewbie

I don't think WRX is going to be any much faster than Eclipse, but with some modification on it you could get up some more horses out of it.
[/B]

Your i-club name says it all. The new eclipses are very slow... yes even the V6. I taxed 2 of them when I was bone stock (one drag, one freeway) and I was not impressed. And yes they were both GT's (I don't even want to know about the RS). Mitsubishi needs to remove their heads from their asses. It's like taking the WRX and turning it in to a front wheel, understeering blob.

Mitsubishi America thought process:

"Let's cancel AWD/turbo"
"Sounds good, Americans want low end torque with sacrifice for high end power"

**notice WRX sales**

"Oh **** we better get the Lancer over here!"
"Yea! Wait first it has to go thru US crash standards, a de-tune in power, and let's not forget to make it 200hp standard for all CA models"

Bottom line: Mitsu should have kept a turbo AWD eclipse in the first place. It was a fast modded car (I have several friends with 2G eclipses) and were very fun to drive. They still don't handle as good as the WRX, IMO though..

But anyway, answering this post, WRX all the way. Don't even need to stop at the Pontiac dealer.

Get the automatic tranny WRX! There has been a lot of discussion regarding the auto versus manual transmissions on the Rex. The general consensus is that the manual transmission's reliability is going to be questionable with extensive modding (above 280 hp). The automatic on the other hand is proven to be pretty bullit proof at higher horsepower. Add synthetic fluid and a good auxillary ATF cooler and the tranny will take lots of abuse. Sure the slushbox will be slower than the 5-speed in stock form and not as much fun to drive, but if you are definitely set on an auto you can rest assured the tranny will hold up to your future mods.

Adding a simple manual boost controller to the WRX will allow you to adjust boost and is an inexpensive mod that has great results.

I am a an old Pontiac fan but skip the GTP. Sure they are nice cars but the build quality does not compare to Subaru and resale absolutely sucks. The last late model Pontiac I owned (85 H.O. Trans Am bought new) sounded like a bucket of bolts after 6 months. Not to mention it won't come close to the handling of the WRX and no AWD.

Here is an interesting thread regarding the WRX and the GTP:

http://www.drivefaster.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=2&topic=2

Punk

Hey, thanks for the responses. I have another question now. What are the things that are missing out of the WRX? I've heard that there is no clock if you get the optional gauges. What else is missing in the car?

one thing missing from the WRX is the sunroof. it is not even available. PLEASE dont let that deter you from getting a WRX. a WRX is much, MUCH better than a Pontiac. Pontiac's are poorly made cars. also, a ford taurus should not even be a consideration.

Sunroof is available in Japan.

yes, the WRX does have a clock.

Punks hit the nail on the head with the reliability issue and the AWD. the question is, would ya rather be drinkin' sanka at the pontiac service waiting room, or be zooming up to crystal mountain or mt. hood to go boarding? :)

I hate to be the dissenting voice, but don't write off the GTP. At least take it for a test drive.

American cars are much, much, MUCH better than they used to be. I've had the Alero for 18 months, and my wife had a Cavalier for nearly 4 years. Absolutely zero problems with both cars! Not to mention my sister's Pontiac 6000LE with 210,000 miles on it...

The "American cars are crap" prejudice doesn't hold much water with me, considering the flawless cars we've purchased from GM and the crapmobile that was my '96 Jetta. Cars are complex pieces of machinery, every manufacturer drops a few duds once in awhile. Do I think all German cars suck because of my bad VW experience? No.

I've driven a 1998 GTP, and not only do those things haul ass, but they have much nicer interiors than any Subaru I've seen. You're going to be hard-pressed to find a new car with more grunt in that price range. Given the fact that you admit you're a larger guy, and you drive friends around regularly, and want the automatic... I'd *seriously* look at the GTP. One suggestion, though, assuming you're not going to keep the car until it turns into a pile of rust: lease. Punks is right, you will get severely violated on resale or trade. GM is excessively paranoid about market-share, and so incentivizes the hell out of their cars. Not a great way to keep resale values up. It's a great car, though, make sure to at least give it a test drive.

Rich

P.S. It's interesting you asked this question; I've posted elsewhere on this forum, and was wresting with the WRX vs. GTP question myself. I decided that unless something new and interesting comes out, I'm going to get the WRX. The GTP is a much better deal, but I miss having a small, nimble car that I had with my Jetta. Plus, I've always wanted a car with a turbocharged engine....

Oh, I didn't write off the GTP on MY test driving route... I made sure to stop in and try it!

And WOW, what a piece of crap. I couldn't get out of the car soon enough. The supercharger was well and good, but I was afraid if I put full power to the wheels the whole chassis would just snap in half!

It's a plastic nightmare. And not the GOOD plastic like you see on Audis... this is the stuff they use to make those plastic bubbles with cheap toys that you get out of vending machines at supermarkets.

Wholely unimpressive car. Definitely the worst thing I looked at. My friend and I laughed at them after we left the dealership.

I'm obviously prejudiced to the WRX, but I only bought it after EXTENSIVE test drives. I drove the Mitsuclipse GT and was a big fan! Leather + sunroof + V6 is NOT a bad thing!

The automagic WRX is underpowered at low revs, but so what? If you're not planning on launching it that often, it'll ride just great after you get past 20 mph! I say go for it.

I love Imprezas, and if you were considering the manual tranny, the WRX would be my recommendation. Having said that, a friend had a Gran Prix one level below the GTP, non SC, and it was a nice quality comfy car. And very torquey. My wife has an Olds Intrique, and although it does not handle like an Impreza would, it is the same car as the Gran Prix. My only reason for bringing this up is that the car is high quality and has a supurb engine. 0-60 comes in 8 seconds, and it is a very fast highway car, great accelleration and tops at about 130mph. Now, the GTP does 0-60 in like 6.5 seconds. Slower than a manual WRX, but not the auto. It actually has a nicer interior than the WRX and is more roomy and comfortable. It is a nice car. I would love to see you in a stick, but it sounds like you are set so I won't try to persuade you.

Basically, if comfort and room are more important, go with the GTP. If handling and all the other great things that come with sport compacts are important, go with the WRX. If the WRX ages like the last Impreza, it will rattle more than the Pontiac will.

Having said all that, I would get the WRX, but hey, it depends on what is important to you. Read the reviews at www.edmunds.com

-Justin

Err.. while I don't entirely care for Pontiac's light-grey plastic buttons on the interior, *as a whole* it's quite nice. I like the way the dash glows red at night, and the HUD is pretty cool too.

As for "snapping in half", I don't think you had much to worry about. They're extremely solid cars. One of the guys at work totalled one out; it was one of those "How in the *hell* did anyone survive that??" accidents, and he walked away.

I also disagree with your assessment of the Eclipse. Overpriced junk, but you also know what they say about opinions... :)

Incidentally, while I do plan on purchasing a Subaru after my lease is up, it does amuse me to see you guys ripping on American cars. This, after threads like, "News about WRX Stock Rattle", "driver side window squeak", and "name this rattle" on the WRX board, and everybody bitching about the paint quality, I think it's time for you to admit that you're simply prejudiced against American cars, and get on with your life. My Alero is 100% solid, dead quiet ride, and hasn't been back to the dealer except for freebie oil changes.

Anyway, the reason I'm moving off American rides next time has nothing to do with perceived 'quality' issues, it's that American manufacturers forgot how to make fun cars. While I do like the Alero, it just wasn't as much fun to drive as my Jetta was. The steering is kind of loose for my tastes, and the salesman shrugged and told me it was because zillions of women complain about the wheel being "difficult" to turn. If I didn't have family that work in varying capacities for GM to verify this was true, I'd think my sales guy was full of crap. It really is true. It irritates me that GM designs their cars to appeal to the lowest common denominator; I can understand wanting to sell cars, but you can only make something so generic until it loses all appeal.

Call it "McDonald's syndrome". Except we're not dealing with 89 cent hamburgers that taste like cardboard, we're talking about the 2nd most expensive purchase most people make in their lifetimes. They want it to suit their needs, but also uniquely reflect their personalities (subconsciously or otherwise). The PT Cruiser is selling like wild, despite the fact it's anemic and kind of balky to drive. Does Chrysler capitalize on this by introducing V6 or turbo models? No, they're pissing away their opportunity. GM is content to introduce bizarro vehicles and generic SUVs... Ford seems to be the only US manufacturer doing almost everything right, at least as far as new models go. Perceived quality is a huge problem of theirs; the Escape is a great new vehicle (my wife just replaced her Cavalier with one, actually, it is a hell of a nice ride for what it cost!), but had 5 major recalls when it first came out last year. FIVE! The Focus had a similar amount upon introduction. Despite this, however, Ford is selling zillions of Focus(Focii?), and can't seem to pump out Escapes fast enough. Once Ford figures out how not to screw up vehicle introductions, I seriously believe they'll be the premier U.S. auto manufacturer.

Well, I had a 2000 Eclipse GT, and now own a WRX. (both manuals) Here's the skinny between the two cars from my perspective.

The WRX is a LOT faster in a straight line. The Eclipse was reasonably quick, but the WRX really pushes you into the seat when the boost comes on.

The Eclipse had terrible understeer problems. Even with a bigger rear bar and playing with tire pressure, it was like driving a plow whenever I got on the gas in a corner. The WRX has a natural tendency to understeer a little, but it's fairly easy to get the back end to come around as you get accustomed to the car.

Despite the financial hit I took from it, I'm actually glad I crashed the Eclipse, because it gave me a reason to trade up to the WRX.

As for the GTS, I imagine it's engine is better matched to an auto tranny than the WRX (The Auto WRX lags far more than the manual). But Grand Prixs plow through corners worse than the Eclipse did. And you WILL fall in love with the AWD of the Subie.

Talk one of your pals, who usually end-up in the back seat, to buy a mid-sized sedan...:D
Then go buy a 5 speed WRX. You'll enjoy shifting and wonder why you ever had a pokey, hard to control automatic. :eek:

The GTP is a powerful car, the engine is a solid beast. The body is fine from the outside, but the interior is what kinda kills the car. Too much "cheap" plastic on the inside. I hang out w/some of the local GrandPrix club and those guys are pretty fast @ the track. I've seen em run low 14s, even high 13s in stock form on good days. Easily into the mid to low 13s w/minor mods. The car has a really good low end, but the high end kinda sucks. There's one bad thing about that car: the tranny, it can't handle a lot of torque, so once you start doing some mods, the tranny begins to weaken, too bad you can't get the car in stick. So I guess unless you wanna do some R&D to design a nice tranny for that car, or you're leaving it in stock form, go for it. It's pretty comfortable, and it's roomy as hell. I say get the WRX either way, cause I just love that car... :)

Its a Pontiac for crying out loud.

Its interior is not better quality than any car. It will fall to peices within 6 months. The WRX interior looks great in my opinion, and won't do that falling apart thing.

Look yourself in the mirror and say " I drive a pontiac "
Its not going to feel good and you'll probably laugh.
The car is a boat. I am not biased toward Subarus I've just ridden in this Pontiac you speak of and I wouldn't wish the ownership of this car on anyone. Keep the eclipse if you are going to get a Pontiac.

Have you thought about a VW Passat or a Nissan Maxima.
Both larger cars and both are well made.


I would get the WRX though. Too good of a value.

GTP is not a slow car by any means. The interior is not up to par and you have to semi worry about the quality issue. But you get a lot of room.
I can fit 5 people in my wrx, and it definitly have a lot more room than eclipse ( it is a 2+2 after all.) If you need room, get a gtp. It sounds like you just want a comfortable car with decent performance. Automatic doesn't really shine in the wrx...

1) Get a WRX, you will not look back with regret for even a moment.... heck while you're at it get a manual transmission, and get a WAGON :)

2) A 3rd Gen Eclipse is not an Eclipse, it's some abhorrent car that had managed to steal the Eclipse name from an otherwise wonderful car. DSM guys don't even acknowledge these cars as DSMs. It would appear to me as though someone in a California based design center had too many tokes from the bong when designing this car.

3) A GTP? Sure you can do surgery with a hacksaw, but wouldn't a scalpel be the correct piece of equipment. [DISCLOSURE: I'm vehemently opposed to buying most modern American cars with a few noteable exceptions, unfortunately the GTP is not one of them :)]

lateRZ

Yeah, I've heard about those new, powerful, altimas, maximas, etc. But I will have to check them out too.

I've actually been thinking about trying out a m/t now. My dad has a stick, and I drove it twice. Both were serious learning experiences. But I figure once you get used to it, it's not all that bad. Up here in Tacoma/Seattle, traffic sucks every hour of every day. Not the funnest place to have a manual. But anywhere else, it would be alright. I will take your views into consideration, and when I go test drive a WRX, I will check out the manual, even though I still don't really know how to drive one.

And to whoever said the EVO VII isn't coming, that's probably not true. There was an EVO VII at Road Race Engineering in So. Cal.
Here is the thread:

http://www.neweclipseforums.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000569.html

FYI

the GTP is faster AND quicker than the SHO, and it has a better reliability record.

ford taurus, very reliable.
SHO, very unreliable (one of fords most problematic cars)

the GTP is a huge car, but the SHO is equally as huge. and the GTP is .5 sec quicker 0-60 than the SHO (6.6 vs 7.1).

The GTP also gets better mpg because it has a smaller engine (sc-v6 vs v8).

American cars are fine compaired to older american cars...
But if you compair them to anything else, you really start to notice the quality/capability difference :p

1.5 years ago I didnt even care about subaru's... but after test driving EVERYTHING on the market for 6 months in the 2000 model year, I came to the conclusion that Subaru's were the best thing since sliced bread.

Any questions? Yes? Then go do some test drives! :p

First of all I hope you're cross posting this on Grand Prix Net and whatever Mitsu boards exist so you can catch the slag from the other directions too. That said here's my recommendation...

Forget about the mitsu especially in automatic form. Talk about noise problems I think they're worse than most GM cars. Plus its small with NO back seat and realtively slow.

Next figure out why you want a new car. If you want a quick car, automatic tranny, that is comfortable, really carries 5 ppl with low maintenance get the GTP. The SC 3800 is bulletproof and the quality problems are NOT bad at all on that car. I have the JD Power data on my HD somewhere. Yes the grey plastic is cheap but the radio kicks ass and the HUD is pretty durn cool. I also like the seats but that's subjective. Other positive points are really good lease and purchase deals on the GTP. Resale isn't bad either.

Bad points are bad brakes. Sloppy handling and unagressive suspension.

All that said. I would (and did) buy a WRX (wagon for me). Not sure I'd buy it if I wanted an auto but that's up to you. For me its the AWD, 5 spd, 227hp, and cargo carying ability of the WRX wagon that sold me. I have no clue of how reliable it will be and I really don't care.

For the record I'm a Mech. Engineer for General Motors. I work at the Milford Proving Grounds and have driven everything we make and will make in the next few years. I've also driven nearly every competitive vehicle I can get my hands on. I think we make good cars for the masses, but not anything for people who would really consider a wrx. Maybe when the pontiac VIBE comes out...

At any rate I like the WRX enough to ignore my GM discount and buy one. Plus everyone should realize that GM owns 20% of Fuji Heavy and consequently Subaru. So you're all driving GM cars!

Originally posted by ChrisW
yep... I was disapointed that Mistubishi dropped the AWD. bad move on their part. Just imagine the V6 with AWD... drool.... then add some kind of forced induction.... drooooolllll....

V6 + AWD + Turbo... what about twin turbos? :p See sig. :D

---------------
Patrick
Black '01 Eclipse GT
Modded.

3000GT VR-4 soon.

Originally posted by WRX Power
Your i-club name says it all. The new eclipses are very slow... yes even the V6. I taxed 2 of them when I was bone stock (one drag, one freeway) and I was not impressed. And yes they were both GT's (I don't even want to know about the RS). Mitsubishi needs to remove their heads from their asses. It's like taking the WRX and turning it in to a front wheel, understeering blob.

Mitsubishi America thought process:

"Let's cancel AWD/turbo"
"Sounds good, Americans want low end torque with sacrifice for high end power"

**notice WRX sales**

"Oh **** we better get the Lancer over here!"
"Yea! Wait first it has to go thru US crash standards, a de-tune in power, and let's not forget to make it 200hp standard for all CA models"

Bottom line: Mitsu should have kept a turbo AWD eclipse in the first place. It was a fast modded car (I have several friends with 2G eclipses) and were very fun to drive. They still don't handle as good as the WRX, IMO though..

But anyway, answering this post, WRX all the way. Don't even need to stop at the Pontiac dealer.

Well, sir, I've raced a WRX and I, too, am not impressed with the WRX.

I was in the lead in 1st - granted the guy did NOT know how to launch an AWD car. :rolleyes:

I was unsure if I would continue the race and shifted lazily. even in 2nd.

WRX started to pull in 3rd... VERRRY SLOOOWLY. :rolleyes:

And I was under the impression that I'd be left behind by a WRX which would ROCKET away!

What a disappointment.

A couple of guys at Club3G are running turbos. With my results and their new performance gains....

Anyway, I'm sure the WRX still handles much better. :)

---------------
Patrick
Black '01 Eclipse GT 5-Speed
Modded.

3000GT VR-4 soon.

It's good to see people from all 3 different view points being posted in here.

It's true though. A turbocharged Eclipse could very well take a WRX. And the rest of the mods wouldn't be too much more. If Pats goes through with the AWD coversion + Twin turbos...Wow. But the only bad thing that it costs a lot.

If I keep the car, my first choice is going to be turbocharging my car.

I think you'd be VERY happy going from a 3G Mitsu Eclipse GT to a WRX. my roommate test drove a GT the other day (dealer let him go nutz on it.. ) He was unimpressed.. neither was I. It felt SLOW.. I let him drive my wrx to the dealer to let him practice his stick driving a little bit. He kept saying afterwords "I shoulda never drove your wrx to the dealer. There's a HUGE difference." Then he sped off in my wrx.