ok i know there's not a whole lot of options available for headers....who else makes headers besides TWE and Borla? I dont want equal length because i dont want to loose that boxer sound :)

yea i dont want to lose my boxer sound either. so if i buy the borla's i wont right ?

thats right borla is your best and cheapest bet.
just dosnt give you as much hp gain as twe and cobb and other equal length
brands.

yea the borla's aree the cheapest ones so i figure i will get em but i was just very worried about losing my boxer sound. So your saying i wont right?

Borlas if anything make the boxer rumble more pronounced. Maybe its placebo effect or something but I felt more low end power with them on too.

Borlas = boxer sound amplified.
Apparently they also = cracking header.

yea ok so i guess im going to order them very soon ,and ive also heard about the cracking. I heard its very common but If i buy them i shouldnt have a problem becuase when your the original owner you get the "1 million mile warrenty" or so they say :lol:

Have you heard any el headers? While you do lose some of the boxer rumble, you gain maybe twice as much horse power. And they still sound MEAN!! :devil: Used ones pop up now and then. I got a Brullen for less than 1/2 the retail price.

Chad

or you could get them done custom...why does no one ever suggest that?

well custom is just ah i dunno not my style I like to know that i have something more reliable :lol:

lol borlas arent reliable at all. they crack and fall apart all the time.

yea ok so i guess im going to order them very soon ,and ive also heard about the cracking. I heard its very common but If i buy them i shouldnt have a problem becuase when your the original owner you get the "1 million mile warrenty" or so they say :lol:

yup 1 million mile warranty... How bout you go "warranty" your header every 4 months lets say... that makes your life difficult...

finds out ur header is cracked
took it off and send it to borla for replacement/repair
get it back and install it
driving it until its cracked again
repeat first step...

lol borlas arent reliable at all. they crack and fall apart all the time.
yes they crack all the time but i dont care becuase by the time they do crack i wont need them anymore becuase the motor will be coming out for a new one :devil:

thats the thing that bugs the hell out of me from borla....there isnt anything remotely good and not so expensive....a set of headers runs like 700-900$ its just not worth it for the output on our cars

thats the thing that bugs the hell out of me from borla....there isnt anything remotely good and not so expensive....a set of headers runs like 700-900$ its just not worth it for the output on our cars
what headers did you see from borla for our cars that cost 700-900 bucks :huh:

yea ive seen brand new borla headers for like $280

buying headers for sound is pure rice. get what makes the most power. if you can't afford that much now, then save. you will be happier in the long run.

what headers did you see from borla for our cars that cost 700-900 bucks :huh:
im talking about TWE, COBB, MRT, those kinda brand headers...im not going for power on this car for once...more so for asthetics and suspension...already did 3 straight line mustangs...wanna try something different :rolleyes:

:lol: ok i see what your saying

I've got the Brullen EL headers... they are awesome ;)
Video with sound (http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=mybrullen)

Kyle

I've had the borla header on my car for about a year now. It's ceramic coated, increased the boxer rumble nicely plus gave decent power gains as compared to most others. I have heard about cracking but not on just borla's... on all headers except the shock. Having a good exhaust system helps with the sound as well. I have Bosal devorced to bosal race pipe to HKS hi power.... catless. The sound is pure rumble with this header and loud when you want it to be.

All in all, not bad for what I paid for it.



-K

All EL headers besides the brullen sound like crap... IMO. I've heard them on more than 10 occasions and most times i'd look around for a ricey looking honda, but then i see a Subaru :( :huh: . I really don't think they sound mean at all.. more annoying than anything

Brullen's are cool in my book though... It isn't completely Subaru sounding, but it doesn't sound bad at all. It doesn't sound like a little 4 cyl. I still wouldn't get one unless it was absolutely dirt cheap since the sound of a Subie is one of its callsigns... it would be like the New Jersey Devils not having Red on their uniforms.... it just doesn't fit the bill.

yea since im not going for power on this car, im not too worried and i guess ill just keep getting borlas....i wont tolerate having the honda sound :p

yea brullens are hot....still have a nice sound, and give you killer gains

to my knowledge only the older gen borlas cracked. i have the newest gen for like over 6 months and they look just fine.

If equal length headers take away the "boxer sound", then isn't it really an "unequal length headers sound", and shouldn't it be associated with the allegedly poorly flowing stock headers?

<"boxer sound" goes by> "Uck, that guy's got restrictive stock headers."

I like the EL sound. After reading this thread I ran out and shot a short video from the tail of the Subiesport Project Car (TWE headers):

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784354

of course I only have a map and stock cams and cat and hedder and oh well I can still dream.

...shouldn't it be associated with the allegedly poorly flowing stock headers?

<"boxer sound" goes by> "Uck, that guy's got restrictive stock headers."
Makes sense. Isn't part of the 2006 HP increase from a new equal-length stock header? Anyone know part# & pricing?

Does anyone know of the Borla header for the 2.2ltr single port engines amplify the 'boxer' sound as well?

Shouldnt the "Boxer sound" be referred to as the "unequal length header sound"? I mean if you take off the headers and it doesn't have that sound anymore then its more an opposed engine+ header combo then it is a result of the firing order of the engine....

Well Kevin, judging by the theory of where the boxer sound comes from, then yes, because its not EL. I have no experience with the 2.2l header, but I have yet to hear a borla header on any car that didnt sound like a V8. And all the nay sayers with their cracking crying, they redesigned them recently and as a few have said, Ive run the new gen for quite a while with no problem.

I just remembered that the 2.5 and 2.2 headers are the same part number. But I see your looking for single port, so nevermind.

Well Kevin, judging by the theory of where the boxer sound comes from, then yes, because its not EL. I have no experience with the 2.2l header, but I have yet to hear a borla header on any car that didnt sound like a V8. And all the nay sayers with their cracking crying, they redesigned them recently and as a few have said, Ive run the new gen for quite a while with no problem.

WHat is the latests generation? Was is changed withing the past year?

im curious too Hawk296...im about to get some used 4th gen borlas

I think 4th gen is the latest. I've had a set on for a couple of months. I'd like to see a "My Borla DIDN'T Crack" thread, because unfortunately only people with problems generally post.

Hi i bought my borla headers in feb 05, wrapped them up and coated them too. Still no cracks, love the performance inthe dyno butt, and sound is really nice. It brings the boxer engine alive.

6:34 PM:
If equal length headers take away the "boxer sound", then isn't it really an "unequal length headers sound"...?

11:21 PM:
Shouldnt the "Boxer sound" be referred to as the "unequal length header sound"? I mean if you take off the headers and it doesn't have that sound anymore then its more an opposed engine+ header combo then it is a result of the firing order of the engine....

Beat ya. :)

Madahatteroo... If you aren't getting headers for more power, and love the "boxer" (read: ineffecient) sound then WHY are you looking for headers at all? Just open the exhaust a bit and then you will hear it loud and clear.

BTW, I had a 2.5" Brullen catback - then later installed MRT header/cat ($350new - a few years ago now) on my '98 Leg GT. The exhaust was MUCH louder with the stock header, and dronned a lot. The MRT was "raspier", but NOT "honda" and sounded MEAN above 4500rpm at WOT (oh, it also did what I bought it for - shaved .3+ off my ET and added almost 2mph to my traps - who with a unequal length header can say that?.... the header/cat gave me ~15+hp judging by trap increase)

my $.04 (you get extra)
-Chad

6:34 PM:


11:21 PM:


Beat ya. :)

:lol: oh man, I didnt even see that! I must say though, you have an excellent point!

About the whole million mile warranty for the borla headers. I went through a huge puddle and the water cooled them down way to quick and they cracked, so I took them to a shop and they welded them for me. 2 weeks later I was driving down I-79 and a barrel of some sort flew out of a trailor and I ran it over and it cracked them again, but this time it also put a dent in the y pipe of the headers. Does the million mile warranty cover dents also, or do they just cover cracking? And also, if Borla sees that they were welded again, would they still replace them? This is for a 97 2.2L.

About the whole million mile warranty for the borla headers. I went through a huge puddle and the water cooled them down way to quick and they cracked, so I took them to a shop and they welded them for me. 2 weeks later I was driving down I-79 and a barrel of some sort flew out of a trailor and I ran it over and it cracked them again, but this time it also put a dent in the y pipe of the headers. Does the million mile warranty cover dents also, or do they just cover cracking? And also, if Borla sees that they were welded again, would they still replace them? This is for a 97 2.2L.
best bet is to call up borla and find out

Borla header is nice, sounds sweet with aftermarket or stock exhaust. Noticed more low end torque. I dont believe the newer version cracks like the last one, and it isnt equal length so you will keep the boxer sound. For the price it is definitely worth it!

overall how much louder does the borla headers make your exhuast sound?
P.S i have Apex'i catback.

VERY VERY LOUD. well not really, but it's very noticeable. I have 4th gen borlas since december and they haven't cracked yet. oh and I live in NH so the heat up and cool down very fast during the winters. The only thing I don't like about them is that they DO NOT MAKE ANY HORSEPOWER!!! People say that it pulls harder but that's just in your mind. At most they make like 2HP. Just because of that I'm switching over the TWE or Brullen headers because they make HP like crazy.

I just asked my wife to get me a Borla header for the 2.2ltr engine for Father's day. She agreed! I stated I'd go half though. :banana:

So, instead of waiting, I'm going to look for one right now and ordering it. She can pay me on Father's day. Hooray! :p

Since people haven't been posting before and after dyno results of a Borla header, I'm going to dyno them. Remember, this is for the single port 2.2ltr engine so power may vary. Stay tuned!

BTW: I'm counting on the sound to be great. The car sounds great as it sits with the Remus dual tipped muffler. I LOVE how it sound. I wonder if this will make it better. Video to follow.

Has anyone heard the Cobb tuning headers at all? I thought about buying them along with their exhaust.

I keep hearing about Borla's cracking....are we talking about the 1st generation they produced or the current 2nd one..I have the 2nd one..and have yet to check them for cracking....just scared I guess....

EDIT: I have the most recent generation..I guess it's 4th...got to many generations in my head...haha..sorry.

[QUOTE=Sargeant_002] I have the 2nd one..and have yet to check them for cracking....just scared I guess....

Dont worry about checking for cracks. You will it before you see it. I had a pinhole leak in mine, and two days later it cracked 3/4 around the collector and sounded like a harley.

Dont worry about checking for cracks. You will it before you see it. I had a pinhole leak in mine, and two days later it cracked 3/4 around the collector and sounded like a harley.

That was my next question....would it be a noticable sound difference if it does end up cracking....also, my car kinda turns heads now (I guess people aren't used to seeing an Outback Sport....sound so :devil: ) I can imagine what kinda looks I would get with a Harley sound.. :banana:

VERY VERY LOUD. well not really, but it's very noticeable. I have 4th gen borlas since december and they haven't cracked yet. oh and I live in NH so the heat up and cool down very fast during the winters. The only thing I don't like about them is that they DO NOT MAKE ANY HORSEPOWER!!! People say that it pulls harder but that's just in your mind. At most they make like 2HP. Just because of that I'm switching over the TWE or Brullen headers because they make HP like crazy.

soooo, ya think the headers would be a bit much? besides i'm having problems with authorities already.

what if i put the headers on with my silencer in my N1 catback?

well I have the borlas and JIC bullet for my exhuast system and you can hear the car 1/2 mile away when I'm on the gas pedal. With my silencer on it sounds like a really nice tuned exhuast which is great when you have the po po up your a$$.

About generations and how to tell if its cracked. 4th is the latest gen, apparently in previous generations the flanges that bolt to the motor were slightly off but could be flexed by hand enough to get them on. This provided enough stress on them that temp changes could weaken them enough. And ya know how when you see a rusted out POS on the road with the tail pipe draggin on the ground and it sounds like a race engine? Thats what holes in your exhaust do to the sound, small cracks and holes wont be as drastic, but if your sure theyre new and hole free upon install, note the sound and if you hear changes in it, which driving it everyday should be easy to do, you most likely have a crack somewhere in the system. To narrown it down, get under the car and look for visible holes or highly rusted spots. Turn on car, CAREFULLY get under it and listen for a hissing sound along the pipe or the obvious smell of fumes. That method should at least get you to the correct piece of pipe that needs to be removed for further inspection.

People say that it pulls harder but that's just in your mind. At most they make like 2HP. Just because of that I'm switching over the TWE or Brullen headers because they make HP like crazy.


How do you know this? Do you have a link to information that you or someone else posted up showing the hp that the Borla header make?

to my knowledge only the older gen borlas cracked. i have the newest gen for like over 6 months and they look just fine.

My gen4 cracked after 2 years. I'm having them warrantied.

Does anyone have comments or info on the cobb headers?

Does anyone have comments or info on the cobb headers?

Cobb. Maybe???? :rolleyes:


How do you know this? Do you have a link to information that you or someone else posted up showing the hp that the Borla header make?

From Cobb's web site comparing their header to the borla header:

COBB Equal Length Headers for 2.5L Non-Turbo Models


Salt Lake City, Utah – February 2004 – COBB is proud to announce the availability of our anticipated Equal Length Headers for the Natural Aspirated 2.5L Subaru vehicles. Our header is designed to replace the factory exhaust system starting from the Engine Cylinder Head and ended where the factory second catalytic converter normally ends. There are 4 sections of exhaust on the 2.5L cars. Starting from the engine you have the Factory Header -> Factory Cat Section -> Intermediate Pipe -> Muffler Section. When you purchase a cat-back from us, this replaces the Intermediate Pipe and Muffler Section. The Equal Length Header will replace the Factory Header and Factory Cat Section.

Our system has also been carefully designed to work with our catback, the stock catback, or any aftermarket system designed to mate to the Factory Cat Section. We use the same flange/donut gasket attachment point as the factory equipment and you’ll even re-use the same spring-bolt hardware to bolt the Equal Length header to your cat-back. This was done to preserve the necessary “flex” capability in the system.

To maintain affordability and durability, our Equal Length header is constructed from Mild Steel. We used 16 gauge thickness for durability, heat retention and reduced noise. The system consists of two pieces -- the main header section and an extension pipe section that comes with or without a high-flow performance catalytic converter. This allows the user the ability to purchase both a catted section and a race pipe section for track use without having to purchase two complete header systems.

During the development we obviously compared the dyno results to competitive products; Borla, GReddy, etc. The thought was that if we couldn't make a better overall header, then we should just instead continue to resell another brand as we had in the past. The Borla's actually make pretty respectable mid-range torque though they sort of fall off at higher RPMs. Another competitor's header didn't equal the Borla's mid range but worked better at high RPMs.

We spent an enormous amount of time, effort and money building our header and we have well over 200 dyno passes that we've made developing it. Our goal was to make a header that bested both and at the end of our tested we had by a fair margin.



Dyno Results

Stage 1 Peaks: 126 HP @ 5400 RPM
(Stock Header) 141 ft-lbs @ 4000 RPM


COBB Header: 134.1 HP @ 5400 RPM (+8.1 HP)
158 ft-lbs @ 4000 RPM (+17 ft-lbs)


For comparison purposes we dyno tested the latest generation Borla header with the Random Tech cat using their newest high-flowing Metallic Substrate cat. Measured between 2000 RPM to 6000 RPM, sampling every 100 RPM, the COBB header setup produced +9.4 HP on average and +12.7 ft-lbs of torque on average. The Borla/Random combo produced only +5.5HP on average and +6.9 ft-lbs of torque on average. This represents a 71% higher average HP gain and an 84% higher average torque gain with the COBB header compared to the Borla/Random combo.

The highest gains recorded with our header were +14.7 HP and +17.5 ft-lbs torque. Nowhere in the power band did we find a reduction in performance. In fact, low-end torque was significantly improved. At 2000 RPM, our header is making +16 ft-lbs of torque compared to stock. FWIW, the Borla/Random combo produces +1.9 ft-lbs at 2000 RPM. In fact, from 2000-4000 RPM, our header showed an average torque increase of +13.5 ft-lbs whereas the Borla/Random combo showed an average torque increase of +6.5 ft-lbs. This represents a 107% higher average torque with our header compared to the Borla/Random combo in the portion of the powerband we use the most.

For pricing, we decided to make the system as accessible as possible. While we always want to do things full-tilt, we realize that may put some of our products out of reach of some enthusiasts. To combat that, we’ll be offering the systems either HPC coated or uncoated and with or without a catalytic converter. The Uncoated systems will come pre-painted with high temperature paint to the outside of the pipe to minimize (read: not prevent) rusting. The Ceramic Coated systems are coated inside and out for rust protection and heat retention.

From Cobb's web site comparing their header to the borla header:

Thanks! I was trying to find some dyno information from one of the other sites so you could compare stock vs Cobb vs Borla. Your post was what I was looking for.

"The highest gains recorded with our header were +14.7 HP and +17.5 ft-lbs torque. Nowhere in the power band did we find a reduction in performance. In fact, low-end torque was significantly improved. At 2000 RPM, our header is making +16 ft-lbs of torque compared to stock. FWIW, the Borla/Random combo produces +1.9 ft-lbs at 2000 RPM. In fact, from 2000-4000 RPM, our header showed an average torque increase of +13.5 ft-lbs whereas the Borla/Random combo showed an average torque increase of +6.5 ft-lbs. This represents a 107% higher average torque with our header compared to the Borla/Random combo in the portion of the powerband we use the most."

The 13.5ft-lbs vs 6.5ft-lbs is a pretty big difference. Even still, it's not 2ft-lbs like the previous poster showed.

We still need a dyno chart from the average Joe. We'll see!

Here's the Cobb header dyno info from their site.

http://cobbtuning.com/impreza/images/header-dyno-sm.jpg

Since they supposedly dyno'd the Borla header, why didn't they post the dyno result of that as well? I figured someone here must know.

kinda off topic but i have a Stroumg axel-back for sale, that will fit a 02-05 RS

if anybody is interested PM me, with an offer

travis (CA)

don't want to be a jerk but that 6.5 hp is the borla/random combo. I'm pretty sure that without the random cat the numbers would be less than that 6.5 hp

Thanks for all the info. But does anyone heard them before? Im just wondering how does the cobb headers sound. Looking for the good boxer sound. I screwed up being cheap and had someone build me an exhaust with an apexi muffler. It sound to rice.

I've heard COBB headers before and I think that even though it's equal length, it still has a very nice boxer sound. The only down side to the headers is that you have to use their cat and if you intend to turbocharge your car at a later time you have to replace your headers because they don't end at the stock location.

don't want to be a jerk but that 6.5 hp is the borla/random combo. I'm pretty sure that without the random cat the numbers would be less than that 6.5 hp

You are not being a jerk at all. Some people do not read between the fine lines of such things and it is good you pointed this out.

However, if you look at what I posted from Cobb's site, it says this, "The Equal Length Header will replace the Factory Header and Factory Cat Section."

So you know that the factory cat has been removed with the Cobb header installed.. What you do not know is if the dyno chart is with an aftermarket cat or just a straight pipe going to an aftermarket muffler (or even stock muffler). I must have missed the reference as to what exactly was used but you know the Cobb setup was at least equally on par with the Borla setup as far as the cat goes.

Just things to make you go hrrmmmmmm. :devil:

On another note, I've ordered a Borla header over the weekend. Once it arrives, I'll be sure to post dyno results but I do have the single port setup. I'll have the before and after results to compare. I'm curious about this myself and have been waiting months for something but nothing has came up. I wasn't even going to mod my OBS anymore. :mad: I just have to know.

I don't know if anybody mentioned this cause i didn't feel like reading all 3 pages of the thread but Borla's are good for some Torque and burble, Equal Length Headers are good for ****loads of power.

So you know that the factory cat has been removed with the Cobb header installed.. What you do not know is if the dyno chart is with an aftermarket cat or just a straight pipe going to an aftermarket muffler (or even stock muffler). I must have missed the reference as to what exactly was used but you know the Cobb setup was at least equally on par with the Borla setup as far as the cat goes.

kevin, cobb did a baseline dyno that consisted of their stage 1 performance package. This includes a cobb cai, and a cobb cat back exhaust. the dyno with the eq header is with the stage one still on the car, and with the eq headers hi-flow cat section.