As most of you know, there are a number of FP Red popping up where FP Greens used to be. We recently tuned an FP Red based STI using the typical parts list: Full 3” Exhaust, Perrin BigInlet, Perrin BigMaf, Perrin Injectors.

The goal of the tune was to get a street safe 350whp on pump 92, with a safety margin enough for track use. As you know, the typical FP Green tune that we do with similar goals gets in the 330 – 350 whp range on our dyno.

Below you will see a dyno sheet from this FP Red tune, tuned by Tim, Jarrad, and Jeff Perrin.

http://www.pdxtuning.com/nasioc/Red.jpg

Those familiar with FP Green charts we have posted will recognize this. Let’s take a direct comparison of a FP Green and FP Red:

http://www.pdxtuning.com/nasioc/GreenVSRed.jpg

As you can see, the results are nearly identical. This is good… Especially when you see how to get these results.
Pushing the FP Green to 350whp on our pump gas usually requires something around 21-22psi of boost, a good lean mixture, and a decent amount of timing. As you can see in the graphs below, the Red was able to make the same power and torque with 20-21psi, a very conservative AFR, and equally conservative timing. While not apparent from the data itself, the tune was VERY easy. It was clear the extra efficiency of the FP Reds compressor made the results easy to get and require not only less boost, but a more conservative tune.

http://www.pdxtuning.com/nasioc/FPRedDynoData.gif

Commentary:

As you can see from the dyno graph, the boost threshold combined with the changes in efficienct make these two turbos nearly the same. On the road, the real turbo lag however is slightly different. Tim drove the FP Red car and indicated that there was a perceptual difference in spool up, mostly in the time from accelerator to boost ramp at any rpm. Since both the Red and Green use the same exhaust wheel and housing, this must be related to the different size and style of compressor.

Even with that difference, it is clear that the Red is an extremely good alternative/upgrade from the Green. As is obvious, the real question is now how will it do with the wick turned up. That info will be coming soon, as we are fitting Red to Tims STI tomorrow to tune.

From my perspective, I think the Green has met it’s checkmate. The Red is here and ready for primetime.

(continued on the next post)

Oh, and as per my other thread, here is a datalog. ;)


Engine Speed (RPM) Boost Ignition Timing (°) Mass Air Flow (grams/s) Air Flow Sensor Voltage (Volts) AFR
1376 -4.695 35 19.15 1.98 17
1391 -2.955 26 20.23 2.02 17.13
1406 -0.78 21 24.12 2.16 16.72
1451 0.38 18 23.86 2.12 16.09
1505 0.67 17.5 25.19 2.22 13.98
1506 0.815 18 24.84 2.16 15.55
1568 1.105 17.5 26.19 2.26 12.78
1597 1.25 17 27.36 2.24 12.16
1637 1.395 17.5 28.34 2.28 11.47
1711 1.685 18.5 29.18 2.28 11.58
1740 1.83 19 30.33 2.36 12.28
1810 2.12 20 31.69 2.4 12.45
1835 2.12 20 32.63 2.42 12.45
1905 2.41 21 33.65 2.42 12.39
1964 2.555 21.5 35.58 2.5 12.2
2004 2.7 22.5 36.08 2.5 12.2
2057 2.845 23.5 37.17 2.46 12.2
2138 2.99 25 38.57 2.56 12.06
2187 3.28 25.5 39.66 2.6 12.06
2244 3.425 26 41.05 2.56 12.14
2285 3.425 27 42.4 2.64 12.27
2364 3.86 28 44.28 2.7 12.45
2436 4.15 28 46.75 2.7 12.81
2516 4.585 27 50.24 2.76 13.08
2593 4.875 26.5 52.64 2.78 13.28
2642 5.31 25.5 54.59 2.9 13.22
2732 5.745 25 56.67 2.92 13.09
2821 6.325 24 60.22 2.94 12.75
2876 6.905 22.5 64.75 3.04 12.45
2959 7.775 22.5 68.95 3.18 12.38
3046 8.79 22.5 72.13 3.24 12.31
3138 9.95 22.5 77.31 3.26 12.27
3247 11.255 22 84.31 3.38 12.25
3342 12.415 21.5 87.75 3.46 12.19
3474 14.155 20 96.29 3.54 12.06
3570 15.895 17.5 110.22 3.68 12
3711 17.925 15 132.63 3.82 11.95
3812 20.535 14 148.14 3.9 11.64
3968 20.97 11 174.8 4.14 10.88
4090 21.115 11.5 159.49 4.04 10.77
4289 20.97 12 177.33 4.16 10.78
4393 20.97 12.5 179.91 4.12 11.31
4552 20.97 13.5 177.92 4.16 11.64
4656 20.245 14 184.01 4.2 11.7
4788 20.68 15 191.02 4.22 11.53
4976 20.97 15.5 185.71 4.22 11.34
5118 20.97 15.5 192.29 4.22 11.28
5177 20.97 16 206.19 4.3 11.3
5377 21.115 16.5 207.83 4.34 11.33
5506 21.115 16.5 211.15 4.34 11.3
5617 21.115 16.5 216.16 4.38 11.3
5748 20.97 16.5 215.29 4.38 11.31
5842 20.68 17 221.13 4.4 11.25
5982 20.97 17 228.75 4.42 11.19
6142 20.97 19 233.52 4.42 11.13
6199 20.97 20 235.9 4.44 11.06
6320 20.825 21.5 241.87 4.46 10.88
6448 20.825 23 235.89 4.44 10.83
6605 20.97 23.5 241.86 4.46 10.95
6659 20.825 24 249.03 4.46 10.84
6814 20.825 24.5 240.66 4.46 10.83
6855 20.97 25 240.66 4.46 10.83

Does the Red use a different compressor housing than the green? And if so does it have a larger compressor inlet?

Does the Red use a different compressor housing than the green? And if so does it have a larger compressor inlet?

Yes, it is a larger housing. It fits under the manifold, but barly. We used the new jumbo Perrin Inlet which is designed to fit the larger inlet turbos.

Jeff

the only thing that sucks about the red is the need to remove TGV's

Greens rock!

This car still has the TGVs. The fit is extremely close, but technically you can put it together with the TGVs in place. Time will tell if the TGV sensors are tough enough to withstand the proximity. Worst case if the sensor goes bad you will be able to remove the TGVs and be right about where you would be if you had pulled the TGVs in the first place.

We did two installs last week with the Red and both of them still have the TGVs. We have the install on Tim's car this week, and then another Red install next week. We will report back with any change in the status for removing the TGVs.

Jarrad

I'm sorry,...but to me the red seems to be a little bit of a let down on pump fuel,
At this point..So i may eat crow real soon.

Doesn't the red have a 63#s wheel?

Do you think the hotside is holding it back? or prehaps it needs to run more boost to be a happy camper?


Again not to flame or bash...just wanting to get insight....and with race fuel the numbers maybe way HIGHER

As i think there is one 10 second Subby in the 10's with a red already.

I'm sorry,...but to me the red seems to be a little bit of a let down a pump fuel,
At this point..So i may eat crow real soon.

Doesn't the red have a 63#s wheel?

Do you think the hotside is holding it back? or prehaps it needs to run more boost to be a happy camper?


Again not to flame or bash...just wanting to get insight....and with race fuel the numbers maybe way HIGHER

As i think there is one 10 second Suuby in the 10's with a red already.

No danger in asking. I noted in the comments that this was not an attempt to push to boundary on pump fuel. This was a conservative tune, intended to generate the power level it did, and not so see how we could push it. Since we are putting a Red on one of our STIs this week, we will push it first there before doing it on a customer car.

Given how the tune went, I suspect 375-395 may be possible with the right setup.

Running more boost would certainly gain more power, and I will have some results with that in mind shortly. It's all in the details my friends.

Jeff


jeff

Do you guys need a new friend??


It's always enjoyable reading what you guys are doing. Makes me spend less money. If you're ever in Cincinnati, and you need a car to drive/work on/ upgrade, look me up!

Thanks for all the info posted and Good job PDX crew!

P.S...

What goes in must come out.. The larger compressor and inlet helped but it was marginal. Get that 8Cm housing and clipped wheel on board and you will reap the benifits of that larger compressor.

Cya

Clark

Great review with great supporting detail information ... Thank you .. :)
To Jarrad: I sent u PM, did u receive it?

Did you try the green with the same richer AFR? I noticed that your GT35 tune was very lean, leaner than I would expect *on an impreza* to make best power.

Paul

So the more efficient compressor on the Red means lower charge temperature ? So less boost for the same weight of air through the engine ?

It would have been real interesting to know the charge temepratures ? It is one dimenson that frequently get's overlooked. It's not the boost but the weight of air that matters.

Lower temperatures also means less problems with detonation - a win all around.

Great job again PDX.

I think you will find a minor difference in charge temps. The bigger (compressor wise) turbo also scores by being able to run boost with lower RPM, and therefor a more open wastegate and less exh back pressure, which increases VE.

Paul

Did you try the green with the same richer AFR? I noticed that your GT35 tune was very lean, leaner than I would expect *on an impreza* to make best power.

Paul

Great question Paul. Tim did this tune, so I will have to check with him. Since we are putting a Red on his car today, we will certainly run it a bit leaner and see how it comes out. The Red map for that customer was conservative in both AFR and timing, since we are just getting this turbo mapped out.

On the GT35R, I was suprised at how well it ran, and how much better it ran with the leaner mixture. The car feels like a dog if you get to 11:1 or richer.. But at about 11.7:1, it really runs very smoothly, and EGTs are very good... But of course timing has a large factor in that. There does appear to be some difference in what I can run with the Spec C cams and heads vs the STI. I noticed the difference when I had the 8cm Green on as well... I was always at least a degree or two more then Tims STI was.

Certainly I'll do some more testing and post back the results.

Cheers,

Jeff

Thanks for all the info posted and Good job PDX crew!

P.S...
What goes in must come out.. The larger compressor and inlet helped but it was marginal. Get that 8Cm housing and clipped wheel on board and you will reap the benifits of that larger compressor.
Cya
Clark

You read my mind Clark! I have an 8cm turbine housing sitting right here awaiting the arrival of the UPS man with some Reds. ;)
-Jeff

Many BIG thumbs up to the PDX crew for coming forth with alot of great info.

As a whole this will help out Subaru owners all over :banana:, not only in tuning but in making the right choices on how to upgrade their cars.

^^ Could not agree more. Big props!

So the more efficient compressor on the Red means lower charge temperature ? So less boost for the same weight of air through the engine ?
It would have been real interesting to know the charge temepratures ? It is one dimenson that frequently get's overlooked. It's not the boost but the weight of air that matters.
Lower temperatures also means less problems with detonation - a win all around.
Great job again PDX.

Charge temps is a good idea.. I have some of those GM intake air sensors and a DTEC, so I will see if I can rig something up on Tims car. It would be great to see charge temps at the same boost level for each turbo.
Jeff

If you're getting the same "Mass Air Flow (grams/s)" at the same RPM with less boost, the intake charge should be cooler... Back to the what Clark said earlier, "What goes in must come out..".

Another factor could be less exhaust backpressure generated by the turbo which would improve overall efficiency of the engine, but lower intake temps should still be present.

Only one way to find out. ;) Having both pre/post intercooler temps would be useful.

Great job again PDX, love the writeups.

You read my mind Clark! I have an 8cm turbine housing sitting right here awaiting the arrival of the UPS man with some Reds. ;)
-Jeff

I have that sitting in my car. This 1000 mile break in is killing me :(

Jeff, can we see some utec logs of the difference between Baily's car with the green and then the red.

Posts like these are very informative and help us self tuners by providing a rough outline to guage our own tune against. Me to begin tuning a green next week :D

Keep up the great work...

Dave

Jeff, can we see some utec logs of the difference between Baily's car with the green and then the red.

Posts like these are very informative and help us self tuners by providing a rough outline to guage our own tune against. Me to begin tuning a green next week :D

Keep up the great work...

Dave

Yep.. I'm trying to find some logs from the last time we were on the dyno. I have some street logs, but those are more difficult to compare beacuse of changse in load.. I'll look around and see what I can find.

Jeff

great write up from the crew at PDXTuning (again)

Props

This car still has the TGVs. The fit is extremely close, but technically you can put it together with the TGVs in place. Time will tell if the TGV sensors are tough enough to withstand the proximity. Worst case if the sensor goes bad you will be able to remove the TGVs and be right about where you would be if you had pulled the TGVs in the first place.

We did two installs last week with the Red and both of them still have the TGVs. We have the install on Tim's car this week, and then another Red install next week. We will report back with any change in the status for removing the TGVs.

Jarrad


How come when I called you about a week or so ago, you told me I would have to....

I canceled my order with FP and ended up with a green because of it..

I just installed my green and even the green's compressor housing came close....

How come when I called you about a week or so ago, you told me I would have to....

I canceled my order with FP and ended up with a green because of it..

I just installed my green and even the green's compressor housing came close....

I don't think we believed it would fit, at least not without some work. It is VERY close.. We are going to see a few more fitments, and perhaps come up with some other solutions before we go hog wild on these. ;)
Jeff

? for all of the PDXTuning crew and others. i am planning on going with the green set up because there will be less lag. my goal is 350-360 WHP with the least amount of lag as possible with the safest tune i can get. Owen and i have been coming up with some sort of a plan. the stuff that needs to be hooked up is what i have already. just wondering what the general consesis is of my list. and would you recomend the green or red? and this will be taking place in about 7-8 months on a 05 STI. now i understant that in 7-8 months PDXTuning will have more knowledge and might be able to find a way to make the red spool faster. same on the green.
just looking for input in this stage.

EcuTek tuning for FP Green setup $????
Hook up of Greddy EO1 EBC
Hook up of Oil Temp, Fuel Press+tap in, EGT+probe
EcuTeck $1000
Perrin BigMAF Intake $219.99
Perrin Turbo inlet $250
Perrin 816cc Injectors $639.99
Walbro GSS34x Fuel Pump $119.99
FP Green $1,375.00
FP Green Oil lines $75
Front Mount Intercooler $1,199.99
Perrin Fuel rails $360
T mount bushings $25
Steering rack bushings $30
IPD sway set + end links $300
Project MU brake pads F+R $180
Kart boy short throw shifter $150
Tein coilovers + EDFC $2000

There are people making mid 400s on pump with reds... if you read above it says on a rich mixture and a CONSERVATIVE tune.

There are people making mid 400s on pump with reds... if you read above it says on a rich mixture and a CONSERVATIVE tune.

Agreed. Also, looking at how low the torque numbers are should give you an idea of how much power is left on the table since its obviously lagging a decent amount. I'm sure the Mathletes can explain it better than I but I figure when they get more aggressive with it the torque should shoot up tremendously. I love posts like that though, there is a lot of good info to take from it all and I can't wait to see what happens when they dial it up a few notches.

Agreed. Also, looking at how low the torque numbers are should give you an idea of how much power is left on the table since its obviously lagging a decent amount. I'm sure the Mathletes can explain it better than I but I figure when they get more aggressive with it the torque should shoot up tremendously. I love posts like that though, there is a lot of good info to take from it all and I can't wait to see what happens when they dial it up a few notches.
while torque might be a little low because of a conservative tune, the main reason the torque looks so low is because of the type of dyno.

There are people making mid 400s on pump with reds... if you read above it says on a rich mixture and a CONSERVATIVE tune.


but there is a big lag factor....

Not on a 2.5 there isnt. the red spools 300-400 rpms later then the green.

There are people making mid 400s on pump with reds... .
Who :confused:

how has driven both a green and a red? anyone? or is everyone just giving advice based on readings. i know the guys at PDXTuning have driven both and from what i was told by a pro at PDXTuning is that the green spools faster. but who can say in 7 months that the timeing and fuel wont be mastered by then. thus eliminating the lag. but at this point i am sold on the green. it is tryed and true. the red is just a little to new for me.

kool man

You aren't going to get a Red to spool like a Green.

The Red is a big turbo that is ment to be spun 30+ psi. It can make around 550+ hp on DSMs.

Who :confused:
I made 400 on pump gas(100) I did have to pump it. ;)

100 octane? that isnt pump gas man. that is race gas out of a pump. how many places have that at the pump? not very many. i would consider the highest pump gas to be 93* anything more than that is not regular pump gas...

You aren't going to get a Red to spool like a Green.

The Red is a big turbo that is ment to be spun 30+ psi. It can make around 550+ hp on DSMs.


thank you for the input.

thank you for the input.

You're welcome.

People are just thinking of the Red as just a bump up from a Green when it's not. It is a large turbo that is ment to be spun at 30+ psi.

I doubt that a stock STi engine will withstand that kind of pressure without popping the heads from the block.

I made 400 on pump gas(100) I did have to pump it. ;)

Hell, i can pump Sunoco 116 from the local racetrack :lol:

You aren't going to get a Red to spool like a Green.

The Red is a big turbo that is ment to be spun 30+ psi. It can make around 550+ hp on DSMs.


Just to be clear, the FP Red for the Subaru market is not the same turbo as the FP Red for the DSM market. While of course the specs are not published, it is rumored that the DSM red is based on a T series compressor wheel (60-1 if my memory serves me?). The FP Red for the Subaru market is based on the newer GT series compessor wheels, and uses the same compressor wheel as the -14 CHRA in the GT30R group, which is a 65lb/min GT40 style wheel.

As well, the Subaru Red uses the 7cm turbine housing, not the 8cm one commonly found in the DSM world.

So, actually you can get spoolup pretty close to that of the green with the red. OF course it is not as fast, but it isn't that far behind either. ;)

Jeff Sponaugle

=I doubt that a stock STi engine will withstand that kind of pressure without popping the heads from the block.

As an aside, mostly due to the smaller head surface area (there are two heads, not one), I have yet to see any problems with heads lifting, even at 30+psi. The most common problems that I have seen on stock blocks is of course the ring landings are very easy to break, and lots of det can very quickly run thru the bearings.

Jeff Sponaugle

Running a 65# wheel with a internal gate :eek: :huh:

What if any power do you think could be picked up by switchin to a EWG?

One of the local guys around here has a 8cm red along with a done up Crawford/DPR motor...It will be nice to see what this bad boy will put out.

Running a 65# wheel with a internal gate :eek: :huh:

What if any power do you think could be picked up by switchin to a EWG?

One of the local guys around here has a 8cm red along with a done up Crawford/DPR motor...It will be nice to see what this bad boy will put out.

Don't make me have to post up the haterade sign again.... :p

IWG on the red seems to work just fine for alot of ppl. I am able to keep boost down to about .7 bar all the way to redline.

So, actually you can get spoolup pretty close to that of the green with the red. OF course it is not as fast, but it isn't that far behind either. ;)

Jeff Sponaugle


Owen sold me on the Green pretty much for this reason. cant wait to come back to the NW and have you guys do some work for me.

Running a 65# wheel with a internal gate :eek: :huh:

What if any power do you think could be picked up by switchin to a EWG?

One of the local guys around here has a 8cm red along with a done up Crawford/DPR motor...It will be nice to see what this bad boy will put out.

That sound like Derek. He is bringing his car up here in the next few weeks to have us tune it, and I'm very excited to see what it puts down. It should be a GREAT setup.

We will have an external wastegate on the Red in about a week, so I'll let you know.

Jeff

Running a 65# wheel with a internal gate :eek: :huh:

What if any power do you think could be picked up by switchin to a EWG?

One of the local guys around here has a 8cm red along with a done up Crawford/DPR motor...It will be nice to see what this bad boy will put out.

Boost for boost the power should be very similar. But the EWG usually enables a wider range of control, and would also enable the system to not get chocked up if NOS was used.

Paul

Boost for boost the power should be very similar. But the EWG usually enables a wider range of control, and would also enable the system to not get chocked up if NOS was used.

Paul


Internal wastegates also have been known to blow open at higher boost levels. There are also limits to the size of an internal gate, so that they are more prone to "creep".

It's strange that FP is confusing the issue when they start making green and red turbo's for different vehicles, with different parts. Not a very good marketing decision on their part.


Have you guys thought about skipping the whole red/green turbo and just going to thier 3065/3055?

Hell, i can pump Sunoco 116 from the local racetrack :lol:
Theres a Sunoco about 15 miles from our dealership that has 120 octane race-gas, there is a track nowhere near it either, kind of strange.

anything over 93* is not pump gas

That sound like Derek. He is bringing his car up here in the next few weeks to have us tune it, and I'm very excited to see what it puts down. It should be a GREAT setup.

We will have an external wastegate on the Red in about a week, so I'll let you know.

Jeff

Yes, it is me. See you guys soon enough!

It's strange that FP is confusing the issue when they start making green and red turbo's for different vehicles, with different parts. Not a very good marketing decision on their part.

Have you guys thought about skipping the whole red/green turbo and just going to thier 3065/3055?

I suppose the decision on the Red was to match the turbo to the motor a bit better. The newer compressor wheel is a 65lb/min wheel, and should be good to push that car to 450-475whp. (Mustang Dyno Hp, that would be perhaps 475-500 Dynojet whp). This compressor wheel is the same wheel used in the FP3065, The Slowboy GT14, and the AVO600.

When Perrin first started on his turned turbo kit, we tested a 3052 with the stainless steel turbine housing (.7 A/R), and it worked very well. In the end, he decided to go with the GT Balistics housing, as it allows swaps from .63, .82 and 1.06. Tim can certainly offer some more comments about the streetability of the Red compared to the Green.

Cheers,
Jeff

So far of all the results I've seen perrin 3052 kit made the best overall numbers, right? What has left you you the most impressed, I'm talking total power under the curve, not just a high peak hp.

Any update on Baily's car going from the green to the red?

They were supposed to tune last night so I am sure we will see something soon enough.

He called me after it was on and said it destroys the Green and the spool was not nearly as badly affected by the larger compressor wheel as others would have suspected. He said maybe 200 rpm later on the street then with the green.

YEAH!!!!!

You guys are going to have to wait for the full update from them but all I can say is I am excited to see what mine puts down ON PUMP!!!!

FP RED!!!!

Well, I've had my green on for one day and all I can say is it is heads and shoulders above my sbr turbo. Can't wait to see the red data, compared to the green..

waiting on the edge of my seat

Sorry guys. We got the data to Jeff tonight, so I am sure he will post up the full details shortly. It definately destroyed the Green's whp on pump.

Jarrad

bump for updates

I am not gonna spoil anything but i was there to witness the awesomeness;)

Ben

anything over 93* is not pump gas
All the Sunoco stations by me pump 94 as there best premium ;)

What was the difference between the Red in your previous thread with the Perrin 3052 kit? Is this the redesigned red?

All the Sunoco stations by me pump 94 as there best premium ;)I wish they had Sunoco stations here in California!

so where did all this Fp-Red Tuning take place, and Did they use a EWG

What was the difference between the Red in your previous thread with the Perrin 3052 kit? Is this the redesigned red?

The Perrin 3052 kit uses a Garette 52 lb compressor wheel with corresponding CHRA, along with the corresonding balistics compressor and turbine cover. In other words, it is a turned turbo kit.

The FP Red mentioned here and there is a direct bolt in turbo using the 7 or 8cm Mitsu Subaru bolt pattern turbine housing.

The Perrin kit is available with either the 3052, 3065, or 35R.

As for the Red here, it is the same. All of the Subaru Reds use the newer Garette 65 lb compressor wheel mated to the 6H turbine wheel.

Cheers,

Jeff

Ok, I was just wondering because everybody is asking for results and it looks like the fp3052 was a better all around performer than the fp red based on your initial testing. I know that you have forgone that particular housing in favor of a the more swappable garrett hot side. I was just wondering at what point is the diminishing marginal returns of going larger stock location vs going rotated. The fp3052 vs red seems like a good comparison for this type of analysis.

so where did all this Fp-Red Tuning take place, and Did they use a EWG

My apologies for not getting this data up faster. Unfortunatly two PDXTuning guys are in Michigan today, I'm in Chicago, and another is in California.

We did tune the Red on Tims STI with pump gas, no WI, and got just a spit shy of 400hp at the wheels. Keep in mind getting 400whp on pump 92 would not be possible with the Green (on our dyno that is). The Red performed very well, especially given the size of the compressor wheel.

I'll have full dyno plots, UTEC data logs, and ALL of the details posted when I return to PDX Wednesday. That is the new standard in Power Proven of course. Datalogs and all. ;)


And this was an internal wastegate red. We will add an external gate very soon.

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle

bump...

Its Wednesday :)

BUMP For some updates...


JDM 2.0 Liter (v7 forged)
JDM Heads (AVCS functional)
FP Red

Thats what I wanna know.

bump it up!!!

i am dropping in hte red this weekend, ill let you all know how it goes.

who is doing your tuning?
what mods do you have?
what turbo are you upgrading from?

BUMP For some updates...

Jeff,
What do you think you could put down with a USDM Block and a set of JDM heads. (pump gas/race gas)
These are the combos of motor/heads I am looking at. Maybe you can offer some insight as to what would be best for my goals. (400+whp pump, 450+race)

USDM 2.5 Block
USDM 2.5 Heads
FP Red

USDM 2.5 block
JDM Heads (AVCS functional)
FP Red

JDM 2.0 Liter (v7 forged)
JDM Heads (AVCS functional)
FP Red

Sorry if this is off topic, Ill take it to PMS if so.

Let's not take it to PMS, I hate it when you are on the rag :lol:
Ahem, sorry, couldn't resist...

From what i have head through the grapevine was that Tim's car did almost 400 on pump and that is stock STi heads on a built motor, without WI with a conservative tune.

Headwork has shown some 30-40 WHP gains on the USDM STi heads.

There will be more data showing all of this soon. PDX is very busy right now with their secret project and I am sure will have more data to post soon.

One thing i can say for certain is that when you sit a set of USDM STi heads next to a Set of JDM STi heads, it doesnt take a talented mechanic or tuner to see that the JDM heads are clearly superior. Big port from the factory!

Soon we will see the benefits of porting STi heads with data just like everyone wants to see. Stay tuned, lots of good info is right around the corner.

From what i have head through the grapevine was that Tim's car did almost 400 on pump and that is stock STi heads on a built motor, without WI with a conservative tune.

I wonder how a stock block would do with this setup both with and without WI?

If it's still streetable, 400 whp on pump would be a very satisfying number indeed I would think. :D

I wonder how a stock block would do with this setup both with and without WI?

If it's still streetable, 400 whp on pump would be a very satisfying number indeed I would think. :D

Especially if the lag was not that big of a deal, which is what seems to be the case with my red.

Not very noticable change in response from the green on the street.

BTW, that stock block scares me. My 04 burned so much oil after 8K miles of just a vishnu stage 1 (Xede and TBE).

^^^ I saw your ride at gruppe-s looks like it will be a monster when everything is clear. Who will be tuning your ride?

bump...

Its Wednesday :)

;) Ok.. I'm back on PDX now, so I just need to get some datalogs from the dyno this am and I'll post up the results. The external wastegate parts came in yesterday, so hopefully we can have those welded up before this Saturday.
Jeff

I understand that the Red is a direct bolt on based off a Garette 65 lb compressor. This seems equivalent to Perin’s “medium” sized kit: the 3065. I’m interested in seeing what the difference between the rotated mount turbo kit with 3065 option, vs the Red. Can you shed some light on why someone would want to go rotated when it looks like the Red solution is easier? This seems like a no brainer for those who aren’t going for HUGE power.

So many new solutions, decisions…decisions… ;)

Thank you for providing great feed back :D

if you going JDM why not just go for the v8 spec C type RA block and heads?

I can just about guarantee Perrins 3065 kit will put down more power. The reason? Exhaust housing. The Red has the same tiny housing as the green, the 3065 comes with a .82 housing I believe. No brainer. This is why the 8cm housing puts down so much more power than the 7cm housing.

I think even with a smaller compressor wheel I bet the 3052 kit has almost as much up top with more power under the curve.

I'll have full dyno plots, UTEC data logs, and ALL of the details posted when I return to PDX Wednesday. That is the new standard in Power Proven of course. Datalogs and all. ;)

Is it Wednesday yet?

anything today???

guess we are done with this topic?

did anything come about on this?

guess we are done with this topic?

did anything come about on this?How about some patience? They are obviously busy!

#1. a super secret project
#2. traveling all over the place
#3. Family holiday
#4. greatness takes time

Followup data and graphs are here:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=801692

Sorry for the delay!

Jeff

you drop down to 11 degrees of timing at 3800????

wow!