I have a MY00 RS in BRP and the WHOLE car is COVERED in swirlmarks! All of it! Its only a year old but the paint looks like CRAP! WHY? Does everyone else have this problem? I've had it detailed at the local subie dealer a few months ago, but it still dont look all shiny and glossy. :(

I dont think I wash it right. I use a big bucket of soapy water (good quality car wash soap) and a clean wash mit that I clean between every wash. I dry it with a synthetic shammy (chamois?) that I clean off as well. But my car looks pretty bad. Am I pressing too hard when I was the car? should I rinse the bucket out every 30 seconds or something? Is it just the cheap Scooby paint? It really looks like I wash it with sandpaper! HELP!

double posting...sorry :)

there are a lot of causes of swirl..
but the most important thins to remember is that:

you have to provide your car with good wax protection...


now, for removing the swirls...just follow the link below:
http://www21.3m.com/dr/v2/ec_main.entry17c?sp=10007&cid=0&sid=28181&pn=16&pid=37836&DSP=&CUR=840&CACHE_ID=0

buy a product named Finesse it II Finishing Material...or just go to the 3m website (go to auto and go to their online store)in case the above link doesn't work..

how to use the product? follow the direction on the bottle..and many people have reported to be very2 satisfied with the
product, here's one of the proof:

http://autopia-carport.com/forum/showthread.php3?threadid=2168

don;t forget to polish and wax your card afterwards...and let us know the result...

hope this helps :)

The best way to eliminate swirl marks is to use a high-quality buffer and machine polish. There's no better way to do it than that. Hand jobs (guffaw guffaw) always look worse than machine jobs (guffaw guffaw.)

You get swirl marks with almost any contact you make with your paint. If your wash mitt isn't 100% cotton, the risks of swirl marks are even greater. It's not a big deal-my mitt isn't all cotton-but it's something to keep in mind.

3M makes a great swirl-mark remover. Alternately, you could clay the paint if the swirl marks are really bad. Clay will shear off a layer of paint, but it's a bit more exact than a paint cleaning polish.

And yes, it's the cheap scooby paint. :)

I have this product Made by 3M that I got from my friend at the body shop. Its called Imperial Hand glaze. That stuff is the BOMMMMMMMBBBBBB!!!! It will not necessarily take out the swirls, but it will hide them. 99% of them. Well at least till you wash it again. But you must apply it a section at a time while the car is cool. NO HEAT, or its harder to take off. Requires a little more effort, but well worth the time/money/energy.

I seriously doubt that a dealer will do a quality job detailing a car. A good quality detailing will usually cost a couple hundred dollars minimum, and you usually get what you pay for.

Some tips to avoid swirl marks: If you can help it, try to never wash or wax/polish your car in direct sunlight or when the panels are hot. Use either 100% cotton or microfiber cloths/mits for washing and polishing. Instead of moving the cloths in circles, try using straight lines along the long axis of the car as much as possible. I use a California Water Blade to dry my car. Some people say it may scratch the paint if there is any dirt present, but I've never had a problem.

Jordan

I have BRP too.. I'm kinda regretting not getting silver now because I'm damn lazy when it comes to cleaning my car. It's only light colors for me from now on! I'll probably stick to yellow & silver. At least I don't have black. Thanks for the tips, I need to try that too.

Mike

Another good product to remove swirls is the Meguires ScratchX. I also have the BRP paint and currently have no swirls on the car (just scratches).

I wash my car quite regularly and use a cover always (which helps keep much of the dust off. I usually wash my car with just water, and use a mit that I machine wash every time.

I think swirls come mostly from when you dry the car, so be careful there too.

Well the Safari Rally is now on Speedvision....I'm off to watch....


Cheers

EddyL.

3m finesse it II is superior to the 3m imperial hand glaze...which as Pinoy said, hides the swirls until you wash the car again...
this is not the case with Finesse it II...it will stick much longer.. ;)

Finesse-It is also more abrasive than the swirl mark remover.

There's always a tradeoff.

I use 100% cotton diapers and lots of 'em and rub front-to-back (no circular motion). I never get swirl marks on a hand job. I do get microfine scratches over time (not sure where these come from). Polishing every year or two cleans that up.


If you use a buffer and you have any dirt on the pad, you're hosed.


U4

yeah, i`ve been regretting getting black since i bought the car, but when it`s clean, which isn`t very often, black looks better then any other color:) :)

If you want to get rid of them try this:

1. Wash the car with Dawn using all cotton. Dawn will remove any wax, if there is any. this should only be done once, after that use a high quality car wash that will not strip the new wax.

2. Clay the car to remove any embedded dirt particles. This does not remove a layer of paint as previously posted.

3. Polish the car using a hand polish designed to remove swirl marks.

4. Wax the car using a carnuba-based wax.

I just did this on a 2 year old black M3 and it looks like a mirror with no swirl marks. I use all stuff that you can get at www.griotsgarage.com. It's pricey but it works perfectly.

Note: Everthing that you use must be clean, new and 100% cotton. Even diapers sometimes have polyester threads on the edges.

Kurt

The August 2001 issue of Sport Compact Car has a great article called "The ABC's of Detailing" If you subscribe to them, you may want to check it out. Also, their web page MAY have the article. Go to www.sportcompactcarweb.com

-Andy

P.S. I think every Subaru owner should subscribe to that magazine...they love the Subaru....and Rallying.

Geez, you guys are useful! :D


I'll have to find this 3M stuff somewhere......I've never seen it. Anyone know where to get it in CANADA or around here? I know all you guys are gonna say Pep-boys or something....I dont have that here!!!!!!!!:D

Um, yeah, claying DEFINITELY removes a layer of paint. What did you think, it was magically making your paint smooth?

Dragging the clay across the paint takes off the dirt-encrusted top layer and leaves you a nice, smooth, clean layer of paint to work with. You don't really need to do this to remove swirl marks. Swirl marks are completely and utterly superficial and very minor in comparison to a scratch or something. You can fill in swirl marks using a less abrasive method (such as a glaze over the short run and a swirl mark remover over the long run.)

Caranuba-based wax is overrated in terms of shine but not in terms of protection. Most of the waxes with less caranuba actually produce more shine than the waxes with more caranuba. They just don't last as long and don't provide half the protection of a good paste wax loaded with caranuba.

Of course some synthetic "waxes" provide even more protection over the long run, but I like wax.

Good luck with it.

Your first mistake was buying a dark color. :)

I have never and will never buy a dark colored car for that very reason. The Ram is burgandy but, uh, whatever. Swirl marks? Try tree marks. :D

Um, yeah, claying DEFINITELY removes a layer of paint. What did you think, it was magically making your paint smooth?

Um, no it doesn't:

http://www.properautocare.com/usclaybartor.html

The final solution, a special clay bar, was developed in Japan nearly five years ago. This clay safely removes rail dust and industrial fallout by "pulling" it off the surface. It does not "cut" or perform any abrasive action normally associated with polishing or compounding.

Jordan

I'll give you my opinions and suggestions from previous experiances.

First I'll start by saying that for about 1 year I tried to get rid of the swirls in my Black 98 VW Golf. I used TONS of products and did lots of research. Results.

A swirl can NEVER be REMOVED. But, they can be made less visable. The dirtier the paint the more apparent imperfections are. First start by cleaning your car with a quaility car wash. Then use a Clay Bar to 'deep clean' your paint. This will remove all kinds of garbage and will make your car's finish feel like glass (the smoother the better). Third, use a paint cleaner/polish to enhance your cars shine. A non-abrasive, hand applied product would be safer for you. Lastly, use a high quality wax to protect that new shine.

For future reference, when washing your car, use two buckets. Why...one with the soap/water mixture and one with clean water to rinse the dirt off the mit. The dirt on the mit are what causes lots of the swirls. When drying the car, use either a chamois or an artificial chamois. DON'T use a california duster.

My recomended products.

Wash: Pinnacle car shampoo
Clay Pinnacle miracle clay (and lube)
Polish/Cleaner Zymol HD cleanse
Wax Either Pinnacle Paste Glaze or Zymol Japon
Wax removal Any 100% terry cloth
Drying I like the absorber best

PS- Follow the directions for all these products exactly as written on the package. You could buy them at www.autodetail.com They also have great tutorials.;)

Also, if you don't use any of these products, at least use the Zymol HD Cleanse. It is by far the BEST polish/cleaner on the market and will eliminate most of you swirls.

You need Zaino.

www.zainobros.com

Originally posted by Overtime
Um, yeah, claying DEFINITELY removes a layer of paint. What did you think, it was magically making your paint smooth?

Actually, the friction caused by the clay being rubbed over the clear coat allows it to safely remove anything that got stuck in it, such as dirt and brake dust.

I assure you that this is a very safe methond of 'cleaning' your paint.

BTW, if paint 'was' being removed, my clay bar would be very colorful by now (and I cartainly wouldn't be praising its effectiveness).;)

From Autopia, re: clay and abrasives.

Many clay products claim to contain no abrasives. This is stretching the truth. The reason most clay manufacturers claim they don't contain an abrasive is because the general public thinks the word "abrasive" refers only to aggressive, paint removing materials. The fact is the abrasives in most automotive clay products are so fine that you will not see any reduction in paint gloss. After several uses, paint luster may even improve.

What a clay bar does is remove all the surface contaminants in your paint. But it doesn't just "pick out" dirt and junk from the paint. It can't. What it does is sweep away a very thin layer of surface paint with all the dirt and junk in it and leave you with a new layer of paint which has been filled/smoothed out.

It's not magical or anything. And while it's not as rough on your paint as, say, a rubbing compound, it's not completely safe either... which is why claying once every month is not reccomended for most paint jobs.

I have a BRP car and no matter what you do it will never look like the day you picked it up. I have long searched for a solution and I know what you are looking for, it will never happen unless you detail the S*** out of the car. And a clay bar will do absolutly nothing except strip the old wax and caked on dirt from you finish. If I were you, Try not to wash the car when it is dirty(Confused?? - Rinse the car with a power washer first) This will ensure when you wash the car, you don't rub in the dirt :)

Nick.

Yeah, unless you're a real fanatic swirl marks are impossible to control. The trick is to make them difficult to notice... that's where frequent uses of glaze will help you out a lot. Glaze is a filler which will temporarily mask your swirl marks, while SMR is a light abrasive which will remove some of the swirl marks (and create new ones if you're not careful.)

I'm not a huge fan of clay bars for frequent detailing. They do smooth out the paint wonderfully, but they also are slightly abrasive and strip wax-not to mention being a pain in the butt to use. However, for swirl marks, they can be a nice fix...though it's imperative that you use some sort of sealant afterwards.

I would reccomend against powerwashing or heavy-duty spray nozzles. This will just slam the dirt into your paint and help to strip wax because of the velocity of the water you're throwing at the car. Go easy on your car when you're rinsing it off... not disgustingly so, but easy enough. It'll help preserve all those hours you spend waxing the car. :)

I have a BRP car and no matter what you do it will never look like the day you picked it up.
Well, I guess for every opinion, there is an opposite one eh? Cause I have a BRP that will be 2 years old in October. I just started using the Meguires 3 step process about 4 months ago...apply by hand, and remove with a buffer. My paint looks about twice as good as it did when I bought it. I had some swirl marks too, and they are completely gone now.

Bill
NSG Racing

Originally posted by GooseMan
I dont think I wash it right. I use a big bucket of soapy water (good quality car wash soap) and a clean wash mit that I clean between every wash.

DONT wash it with soap in EVERY wash!!! Thats harmfull to paint, especially standard soap...
Just rinse it off most of the time minus the soap, only use soap if your REALLY dirty! (IE not just dusty)

If you disagree, you should see all of the cars in my family even after 10+ years... imaculate paint :)

Originally posted by Overtime
From Autopia, re: clay and abrasives.



What a clay bar does is remove all the surface contaminants in your paint. But it doesn't just "pick out" dirt and junk from the paint. It can't. What it does is sweep away a very thin layer of surface paint with all the dirt and junk in it and leave you with a new layer of paint which has been filled/smoothed out.

It's not magical or anything. And while it's not as rough on your paint as, say, a rubbing compound, it's not completely safe either... which is why claying once every month is not reccomended for most paint jobs.

You are very mislead. I don't know where you got your information from, but it's completely untrue. I have already explained how the clay functions. It certainly does 'pick out' contaminants.

Think of it this way. Clear coat is very soft. If you spray allot of coats of it, you could dent it with your finger nails. Now when you are driving; little fragments of dirt and dust get stuck in the clear coat. When you rub the clay over the stuck dirt, it pulls it out (because of friction). Kind of like rubbing tape over the car, but much less stick than that. If the clear coat in any way got damaged, my car would be VERY ugly by now.

You are, kinda, right about one thing though. Clay doesn't 'need' to be used every month; but not b/c you'll damage your car. It's just not needed. Once a year is enough, but I use it about once every 3 months.;)

Ant,

That information is from the best detailers forum on the net and merely backs up what I already knew.

You're welcome to believe what you like about clay. At least you understand on some degree that it does damage your paint, especially with excessive use.