On August 18th FHI made it evident that, in correspondence with the current environment, that the development of its diesel engine has been progressing. The diesel engine is based on Subaru's forte, its horizontally-opposed engine, to which a turbo will be mated.

Engine displacement is 2.0 liters, and according to FHI, their recent prototype showed better-than-expected test results for generally problematic issues such as vibration and noise. FHI is undecided on when the engine will be ready for product commercialization.

According to a FHI rep from the Technology Dept, 'green diesel cars are not only about the European market, but hereafter will also receive more attention in places like North America and Japan' and recognizes that Subaru 'cannot lack a diesel powertrain'.

From: http://response.jp/issue/2005/0818/article73434_1.html

This'll be pretty significant once the clean diesel rule (low sulfur fuel) goes in effect here in 2007. Until then, there isn't much "green" in diesel, since the tailpipe emissions are horrible, however the fuel savings / CO2 reductions are pretty good.

I was actually expecting this to happen some time. The TDI Jetta here in the US has been a top seller...as it is one of the only deisel sedans available. Question is which models will Subaru put that engine in?


-Mark
MAPmotors.com

The TDI Jetta here in the US has been a top seller...Not in California, New York, Maine, Massachusetts or Vermont, where it's illegal to sell it due to its emissions.

isn't that the new diesel engine emission is much cleaner than gas engine...?

now they need to put the diesel engine into their hybrid system, then they will be able to beat toyota and honda...

A turbo-diesel-hybird system with awd...would be nice to say the least.

How much power do you think the 2.0 turbo diesel will have?

isn't that the new diesel engine emission is much cleaner than gas engine...?

now they need to put the diesel engine into their hybrid system, then they will be able to beat toyota and honda...


yup, should be a bit cleaner.

Should be torquey. Cant wait to see what it does.

ss

The TDI makes 100 hp, and it uses a 2 liter. I'd guess somewhere around there.

TDI's can get 700-800 miles on a tank, with mods. How cool is that?

Get a Subaru with a Diesel, and mod it to run on biodiesel. :D

An article from New Zealand:
Diesel power for Subaru?
02 September 2005

Subaru is developing a pair of diesel engines for the first time in the firm's history.


In true Subaru fashion, the new common rail turbo diesels will be based around the firm's trademark horizontally opposed 'boxer' design.

Designed in conjunction with Isuzu, the four cylinder engines will come in two guises, a 2.0 litre developing 111kW and a 135kW 2.2-litre.

Subaru originally commissioned Porsche's engineering expertise to design the new diesel units but the production units will be based around an in-house design. The move to develop these new engines is to help improve sales in diesel mad Europe. Expect to see these units to be powering the Impreza and Legacy models by the end of 2006.

Also on Subaru's agenda is the development of a Legacy petrol- electric hybrid.

With help from electronics giant NEC, the company is making claims that the battery technology used has a life of 15 years while offering a 30 per cent reduction in fuel economy from the car's turbocharged 2.0-litre petrol engine. The electric Legacy is due to go on sale in Japan in 2007. From http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3397729a30,00.html


2.0L 149hp & 2.2L 181hp turbo diesel - impressive, I wonder what the torque rating is. As a reference, the Jetta 1.9L TDI is rated at 100hp/177lb-ft.

Sign me up!!!!

Very good news. I thought that they were avoiding a diesel. Maybe they can get it to market by '07.

Peace,

Greg

A turbo-diesel-hybird system with awd...would be nice to say the least.

How much power do you think the 2.0 turbo diesel will have?

You don't worry about power with diesels, it's all about the torque baby. ;)

I'd say probably something along the lines of 80 to 100 HP, and 200 to 260 lbs of torque.

Has anyone come across any new info on the diesel engine?

I have a feeling Subaru will announce their boxer diesel engine very soon.

Its been posted that Scooby Magazine will cover some kind of big announcement in the UK on 9/29. See http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11046336&postcount=48. Perhaps a 2007 boxer diesel Impreza? :)

There's also the 39th Tokyo Motor Show starting on 10/22. If the boxer diesel is ready it would make sense to have the initial announcement in the UK where diesel cars are common, rather than in Tokyo where diesel has a generally negative reputation similar to that in the US. Of course thats not to say Subaru would exhibit their new tech at the Motor Show.

What do you guys think?

The electric Legacy is due to go on sale in Japan in 2007 I wonder if they actually mean hybrid Legacy? That would be awesome.

I can't believe the Hybrid Honda Accord isn't a bigger seller. It's actually a performance-oriented car with 255 HP and a nice suspension that gets 37 MPG.

I wish i buy a new Diesel car here in San Diego but they dont allow diesel cars here in Cali since 2002 i think. Which i think is crazy when you see all these Diesel Ford, Dodge and Chevy trucks with 12 inch lifts and 40 ince tires spewing black smoke everywhere because of thier performance mods. And they get by because there are "commercial" or "Heavy duty". C'mon!!! most of these Trucks dont even have a trailer hitch or for that matter how can you haul anything around when you pick up bed is 6 feet from the ground. I'll get off my soap box now. :mad:

I still want a Hybrid Compressed Air and Electric R2.

The compressed Air engine can be refuled in 4 minutes and cleans the air when you drive, or trickle charger from your home electrical supply with the built in compressors in 4 hours.

They reroute the exhaust into the cabin as the air is cooled by the engine process and is cleaner than the outside air and does not require a seperate AC compressor for air conditioning. Doesn't effect mileage either.

with an Electrical hybrid this would give a huge range and cost next to nothing to run.

Diesels can be pretty darn fun when you got all that torque so low :)


Thing is VW kind had to detune their engine a bit or it would have some trouble selling here, thus why its not that powerful. The VW diesel Passat in Europe is actually a pretty decent car to ride in :)

I still want a Hybrid Compressed Air and Electric R2.

The compressed Air engine can be refuled in 4 minutes and cleans the air when you drive, or trickle charger from your home electrical supply with the built in compressors in 4 hours.

They reroute the exhaust into the cabin as the air is cooled by the engine process and is cleaner than the outside air and does not require a seperate AC compressor for air conditioning. Doesn't effect mileage either.

with an Electrical hybrid this would give a huge range and cost next to nothing to run.
Yes, I'm sure a compressed air system would be spectacularly reliable during a Calgary winter.

Compressed air doesn't freeze like propane. Infact the intake air would get heavier and probably work better. Although everytime I think about it it reminds me of those balsa wood airplanes with the rubberband propellors.

Diesel + turbo = :banana:

I would totally buy that car.

I wonder if they actually mean hybrid Legacy? That would be awesome.

I can't believe the Hybrid Honda Accord isn't a bigger seller. It's actually a performance-oriented car with 255 HP and a nice suspension that gets 37 MPG.


People don't buy hybrids to save money. And they don't save money. Look at the recoup analysis. It takes almost 7yrs to make up the expense and that doesn't include possible battery replacements.

People buy hybrids to make statements. The hybrid accord/civic/RX etc. don't "look" hybrid or are easily identifiable like the Prius. They don't convey the statement being made. That's why they aren't selling like the Prius.

People don't buy hybrids to save money. And they don't save money. Look at the recoup analysis. It takes almost 7yrs to make up the expense and that doesn't include possible battery replacements.


People don't buy hybrids to save money...yet. As gas prices go up (they will) and hybrid prices come down (they will) hybrid vehicles will start to make financial sense.

I have nothing against people who are willing to spend a few thousand today for technology that they think is a good thing. Hell, we (enthusiasts) spend many thousands for cars that perform well and that will *never* make financial sense. If someone is into being green and saving gas and they want to spend thousands of dollars on a hybrid car then who are we to say they're being stupid? I'm sure they think we're being stupid for buying a rally car to drive to work in!

I wonder if they actually mean hybrid Legacy? That would be awesome.

I can't believe the Hybrid Honda Accord isn't a bigger seller. It's actually a performance-oriented car with 255 HP and a nice suspension that gets 37 MPG.


Don't forget that combined bhp is not the same as available bhp. You need to match the bhp curves and the torque curves. Electrics have very different torque and bhp curves than gasoline engines, let alone turbos. However they may work together in beneficial ways. Electrics have terrific off the line go, and a turbo gas engine can then take over and keep you going when the electric starts to die out.

People don't buy hybrids to save money...yet. As gas prices go up (they will) and hybrid prices come down (they will) hybrid vehicles will start to make financial sense.

I have nothing against people who are willing to spend a few thousand today for technology that they think is a good thing. Hell, we (enthusiasts) spend many thousands for cars that perform well and that will *never* make financial sense. If someone is into being green and saving gas and they want to spend thousands of dollars on a hybrid car then who are we to say they're being stupid? I'm sure they think we're being stupid for buying a rally car to drive to work in!


Me either... I never said they were "stupid" I was explaining why the common cars gone hybrid aren't selling as well as the exclusively hybrid Prius.

I have a feeling Subaru will announce their boxer diesel engine very soon.
Is this the big announcement we've been waiting for?
So you don't think it will be a larger sedan model to help the push to go "upscale". I thought there were rumors of an A6 or A8 sized vehicle they were calling an "executive sedan" that might be built off the Tribeca platform. Instead it'll be a diesel engine, or a hybrid? Thrillsville.

What about a boxer 8-cylinder engine? Or a twin turbo boxer 6 ? Now that would be an announcement.
Even hearing that the Tribeca and Legacy get telescoping steering wheels and available back-up cameras and better seats would be a lot more exciting.
What about a Legacy STi ?

Hows this for a crazy idea... How about some 6-spd transmissions (manual and auto) that have tall 6th gears, so that we're only turning 2000rpm at 75mph. That would yield some great gas mileage.

Is this the big announcement we've been waiting for?
So you don't think it will be a larger sedan model to help the push to go "upscale". I thought there were rumors of an A6 or A8 sized vehicle they were calling an "executive sedan" that might be built off the Tribeca platform. Instead it'll be a diesel engine, or a hybrid? Thrillsville.

What about a boxer 8-cylinder engine? Or a twin turbo boxer 6 ? Now that would be an announcement.
Even hearing that the Tribeca and Legacy get telescoping steering wheels and available back-up cameras and better seats would be a lot more exciting.
What about a Legacy STi ?

Hows this for a crazy idea... How about some 6-spd transmissions (manual and auto) that have tall 6th gears, so that we're only turning 2000rpm at 75mph. That would yield some great gas mileage.
That's my guess - that a boxer diesel will be revealed soon. I don't think a large sedan is coming anytime soon. Its been mentioned before on this board a few times but no new models are planned for release in the next couple of years except the mini-car, which is scheduled for release in Japan in 2006. Its only speculation but its possible SOA is assessing market potential for a minicar here.

Excluding the mini-car, new model development has been put postponed in favor of further developing hybrid, diesel, and electric powered techonology. After the mini-car, FHI plans to release the next-gen Forester ('07), then the next-gen Impreza ('07), followed by a new model ('08), then an all new Legacy. The new model will most likely be a minivan, although the project has been put on hold for now.

Subaru has a 395hp twin turbo Boxer 6 that's been shown in the B11S concept car. Recently there was news that FHI has developed a new type SOHC engine with AVCS.

Regarding your comment of transmission improvements, it seems Subaru is focusing more on those kinds of issues these days. From what I understand, in the last year or two, FHI has been trying to get away from their traditional way of being overly particular about producing items in house - possibly the main reason for lagging transmission updates.

The lack of interior refinement can probably be blamed on what has normally been all-men design teams. To counter this negative trend, FHI allegedly included many women on the R2's design team. In regard to transmissions, FHI has connected with parts manufacturers to share in the development of new ATs, with hopes of speeding up development time and lowering costs.

Compressed air doesn't freeze like propane. Infact the intake air would get heavier and probably work better. Although everytime I think about it it reminds me of those balsa wood airplanes with the rubberband propellors.
Comressed air does not freeze, but the water vapour which is produced upon expansion sure does. Industrial plant air systems have drain plugs in the lines for just this reason. The amount of expansion determines how much water vapour is produced. This is exactly why plane wings have a problem with ice in the winter. Expansion of air over the wing (the low pressure zone) produces water vapour which freezes to the top of the wing. An automotive air system has to run EXTREMELY high pressure to have the capacity required to make the vehicle run for more than 5 minutes. Therefore LOTS of water vapour would be released.

Saab's New Diesel

by David Morgan (26 Sep 05)

Saab could be the first European manufacturer to hit the market with a "boxer" turbodiesel engine. The alliance between Saab and Subaru which created the Impreza-based Saab 9-2X for the US market is about to signal the return of the 96 badge in Europe - and it looks set to be their first 4x4 SUV with a horizontally-opposed diesel power plant.

By late 2007 British Saab drivers will be able to order the Swedish car maker's first crossover 4x4 - the Saab 9-6X. The all-wheel drive five-door will be closely related to the Subaru B9 Tribeca (pictured) which is built in Indiana and has been on sale throughout North and South America for the past few months.

Saab's upmarket version will be individually styled inside and out, but power and drivelines are strictly Subaru. The first Saab 9-6X models will be powered by the same three-litre flat-six petrol injection engine used in the current Subaru Legacy 3.0R. The 241bhp power plant will be linked to a five-speed automatic gearbox driving a Subaru 4x4 transmission system and mounted on a modified Legacy platform featuring a revised multilink rear suspension.

But the big news is that the three-litre petrol boxer engine will not be alone. Saab and Subaru have been working closely to develop a boxer turbodiesel which is likely to debut in the 9-6X as a flat-four or flat-six. Industry sources say Saab have been working with Porsche engineers in an effort to advance the design of a horizontally-opposed turbodiesel engine. The German firm's expertise in extracting high outputs from petrol-fuelled boxer layouts has apparently proved useful in creating an oil-burner with a sporting character.

The 9-6X is due to make its UK debut around the same time as Subaru introduce their Tribeca to Britain. But the SUVs will have individual styling and features, although both are expected to be available in five- and seven-seat guise.http://www.itv-motoring.com/features/industry/2005/7000.asp

Coming closer..

This article is hilarious! They got it all backwards, which is kind a cute.
Well I´m on Prozac today so nothing can hurt me, obviously.

I'd love a diesel Impreza. Give me the 6 speed transmission w/ that and I'd be a pig in mud.

That said, I'm really liking the BMW 120d. With the M aero/wheel kit, it'd be around $24k US at around 50 miles/gallon combined (better than 60 mpg on the highway!). You get a 6 speed transmission, leather interior, etc. It is a 5 door hatch, as well.

~~Quentin