Knowing that Audi has their DSG up and going now, BMW has the SMG, and Mitsu is working on their own DSG on the Evo X.

Curious as to when you guys think Subaru is going to integrate a similar style tranny into the Impreza line up?

Sure, most people here drive 5spd or 6spd cars, but if Subaru is going to win over the USDM region, they're going to have to start putting the a newer tranny into the '08 Impreza?

The LegacyGT already has the 5spd sport shift, but that's not exactly cutting edge.

Sure, Americans are a different breed, traffic is a pain in the ass and people are getting tired of shifting while driving. I'm not blasting the hardcore ethuists, I'm simply wondering what people's take would be on them putting that in the STi / WRX on the next model revision?

For me at a least that have a wife that doesn't drive a stick and me growing up not having ever owned a manual.... a "fun" transmission would be worth a couple extra bills for enjoyment.

Thoughts?

dsg?..

DSG=direct shift gearbox= Clutchless manual transmission has a auto mode and a sport mode with launch controll (bmw's have it) with steering wheel paddles to shift I think it would be cool I have always wanted a Bmw with smg I think all sports cars should have an optional SMG and a conventional manual

Subaru has a variety of gearboxes and technologies

we just dont get them all here in the States

Subaru B4 - has tiptronic steering wheel controlled shifting

Subaru R2 is a 7 speed sport shift, with optional supercharger

*shrug*

guess they'll expend the market when they deem fit.

hopefully never.

what the heck is an r2

what the heck is an r2


:lol:

something I want desperately.


http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=574771

it's the tops. The bottom is d2. :rolleyes: sorry. That was bad.

dsg?..

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=20&article_id=1324&page_number=1

Knowing that Audi has their DSG up and going now, BMW has the SMG, and Mitsu is working on their own DSG on the Evo X.

Curious as to when you guys think Subaru is going to integrate a similar style tranny into the Impreza line up?

Sure, most people here drive 5spd or 6spd cars, but if Subaru is going to win over the USDM region, they're going to have to start putting the a newer tranny into the '08 Impreza?

The LegacyGT already has the 5spd sport shift, but that's not exactly cutting edge.

Sure, Americans are a different breed, traffic is a pain in the ass and people are getting tired of shifting while driving. I'm not blasting the hardcore ethuists, I'm simply wondering what people's take would be on them putting that in the STi / WRX on the next model revision?

For me at a least that have a wife that doesn't drive a stick and me growing up not having ever owned a manual.... a "fun" transmission would be worth a couple extra bills for enjoyment.

Thoughts?

A lot of people hate the new manumatics. Car and Driver for instance. I think people who REALLY are into driving want 3 pedals in the box. I don't think Subaru gets enough of the middle range of people to warrant such an expensive transmission. Subaru's are still a ways off being Audi and BMW fighters as far as luxury, etc. They are always a little more pure...

What you're asking for is already available from Prodrive. Sell your kidney.. and maybe a few other organs, and you'll be driving one in no time.

B4 = Legacy sedan.. and the USDM Legacy's with the 5EAT have steering wheel controlled shifting.

The 7 speed R2 gearbox is just a CVT with 7 presets that allow you to select 'gears'... just for fun. Not exactly cutting edge.

DSG is based on a completely different concept than SMG.. don't try to interchange the terms.

SMG= sower than manual gearbox....at least according to the reviews of the Z4 with the SMG.

All that aside, I really hope they never install it. I like the simplicity of the SUbaru platform and you can keep all teh stupid bells and whistles I dont want. Its just more crap to break. One of the last VW's I owned was an electronic nightmare that VWoA had to buy back from me and the other had to have all the window regulators replaced, all the coil packs replaced, the DBW module replaced, and the climate control system replaced. Yeah, two of those have supposedly been fixed but the DBW and CC were not and I only had the car for 18,000 miles. Thank GOD it was under warranty 'cause you dont wanna know how much a VW/Audi climate control module is.

Please keep the cars as simple as possible and leave all the electronic crap on the options list for me.

VW's also have DSG transmissions.

...........It's not winning anyone over in our lot... most people don't care about it, as long as it drives nice.

I don't see it coming any time soon. they just got the sportshift and I doubt many AT buyers will even use it. Very few will pay extra for DSG.

Very few will pay extra for DSG.

Have you seen the cost for the DSG/SMG option :eek: :eek:

I don't see it coming any time soon. they just got the sportshift and I doubt many AT buyers will even use it. Very few will pay extra for DSG.

I tried the sportshift on my Tribeca couple times. It has a one or two seconds delay. Very annoying and not much useful unless you want to manually control gears at certain situations (like uphills etc.). It certainly shifts slower than in auto mode.

Audi/VW get there DSG from BorgWarner...is a Dual Clutchless Manual

BMW's SMG is only a Single Clutchless Manual

both are NOT true automatics since they do NOT have a torque converter...

plus rumors are that Mitsui is going to get there own version of DSG from BorgWarner also...


If Subaru wants to succeed in America, they should put one as a option in there cars.

Knowing that Audi has their DSG up and going now, BMW has the SMG, and Mitsu is working on their own DSG on the Evo X.

Curious as to when you guys think Subaru is going to integrate a similar style tranny into the Impreza line up?

Sure, most people here drive 5spd or 6spd cars, but if Subaru is going to win over the USDM region, they're going to have to start putting the a newer tranny into the '08 Impreza?

The LegacyGT already has the 5spd sport shift, but that's not exactly cutting edge.

Sure, Americans are a different breed, traffic is a pain in the ass and people are getting tired of shifting while driving. I'm not blasting the hardcore ethuists, I'm simply wondering what people's take would be on them putting that in the STi / WRX on the next model revision?

For me at a least that have a wife that doesn't drive a stick and me growing up not having ever owned a manual.... a "fun" transmission would be worth a couple extra bills for enjoyment.

Thoughts?

Mitsu is trying to put an auto in the Evo X, huh ? Wow.... Goodbye Evo enthusiasts...... First, they're going to dump the 4G63 for this new Chrysler/Dodge/Hyundai developed "World Motor" and then add an automatic transmission (assuming this info is correct).... Wow.... That's all I can really say.....

A lot of people hate the new manumatics. Car and Driver for instance. I think people who REALLY are into driving want 3 pedals in the box. I don't think Subaru gets enough of the middle range of people to warrant such an expensive transmission. Subaru's are still a ways off being Audi and BMW fighters as far as luxury, etc. They are always a little more pure...

Clarkson on Top Gear hates the "flappy paddle" gearboxes. It has taken me about a month to get used to mine. It isn't really a substitute for an automatic and they do have shortcomings. However, as a substitute for a manual (apart from lacking manual clutch control at low speeds) they are the business when you are going flat out, going around corners, etc.

What you're asking for is already available from Prodrive. Sell your kidney.. and maybe a few other organs, and you'll be driving one in no time.

Err no, theirs doesn't actuate the clutch for launches or shifts.

Give me a nice, slick, traditional 5 or 6spd manual any day of the week over those DSG/SMG/PDQ/BMW/BLAH/BLAH/BLAH boxes. Less crap to go wrong and more satisfying to drive.

Give me a nice, slick, traditional 5 or 6spd manual any day of the week over those DSG/SMG/PDQ/BMW/BLAH/BLAH/BLAH boxes. Less crap to go wrong and more satisfying to drive.

EXACTLY...less crap to break and not as costly to fix when I do break it.

I guess I am gun-shy from having owned cars that even the factory trained "techs" could not fix.

:lol:

something I want desperately.


No, really!? :lol: :lol:

The elitist in me thinks that people who want a sporty ride should have to learn to use a clutch. It's like a hazing :) That said, it would be nice to not have to think about the clutch in stop-and-go traffic on a steep hill, but I am not sure how much I would be willing to pay for that, especially if it didn't work as well as my manual transmission.

Err no, theirs doesn't actuate the clutch for launches or shifts.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/editors/technobabble/0206scc_techno/
Prodrive NGT
Prodrive's NGT, or New Generation Transmission, is the one I would want in my car. In the most basic terms, the NGT is just like Toyota's SMT, a manual transmission under computer control, but instead of using an existing transmission, Prodrive started over. Conventional manuals are designed for human control. They have synchros, since we aren't precise enough to match gear speeds perfectly on each shift, and they're overbuilt to withstand abuses from simple clumsiness to outright mechanical hatred. The shift throws are long, so the driver doesn't get lost, and the shift mechanisms are large and elaborate to allow a single stick to do all the shifting. With computer control, none of this is necessary.

Eliminating the human allows Prodrive to stuff six or seven gears in the space of a normal five-speed manual, and as many as eight in the space of an automatic. Waiting through seven gear changes would be agonizing if they were as slow as Toyota's, but Prodrive has managed to shorten the entire shift, from the moment torque is interrupted to the moment you start accelerating again, to an amazing 50 milliseconds. That's so short you barely feel it.

The concept was developed in its WRC Subarus, but now Prodrive is making a push to get the NGT into production cars. It's still a few years off, and there's no word when or where we'll see them first, but if we're lucky, this rally technology will take the place of the your grandmother's slushbox.

And the current WRC box, which you can buy for £60,000 ($108,225) launches, and shifts on it's own, but, as per WRC rule compliance, also allows you to shift it manually should the automatic systems fail.

I wasn't talking about their 5 speed dogbox. That's a step in the opposite direction from a DSG-like box.

Having owned both a 996 C4 with Tip, and driven a M3 with SMG...give me the 6 spd auto....of course, I do like to drag race ;) , and only occasionally pretend I'm M. Schumacher. :lol:

While a DSG sounds like it might be an interesting compromise with the advantage of sub-second shifting speeds and the tech-geek in me would love to put one in my drag-racer...

I want to hear you back up this statement or question or whatever it was.

"Sure, most people here drive 5spd or 6spd cars, but if Subaru is going to win over the USDM region, they're going to have to start putting the a newer tranny into the '08 Impreza?"

I have an opinion about putting overly-complex and expensive technology into reasonably priced cars. My case study is VW, but I'll leave it at that.

Mitsu is trying to put an auto in the Evo X, huh ? Wow.... Goodbye Evo enthusiasts...... First, they're going to dump the 4G63 for this new Chrysler/Dodge/Hyundai developed "World Motor" and then add an automatic transmission (assuming this info is correct).... Wow.... That's all I can really say.....

For the umpteenth time. DSG is Not an automatic transmission (although you can set some to automatic mode if you want).

Goodbye enthusiasts? :confused: What do you think the WRC/F1 cars are using these days? It's not a stick with an H-pattern. :lol:


My fear (and the above quote seems to be bearing it out) is that Subaru and its customers will mistake the lack of enthusiasm for a steering wheel button/paddle-type automatic for lack of enthusiasm for a real DSG. :(

The elitist in me thinks that people who want a sporty ride should have to learn to use a clutch.

Exactly. DSG is a gimmick for rich poseurs.

Clarkson on Top Gear hates the "flappy paddle" gearboxes. It has taken me about a month to get used to mine. It isn't really a substitute for an automatic and they do have shortcomings. However, as a substitute for a manual (apart from lacking manual clutch control at low speeds) they are the business when you are going flat out, going around corners, etc.


What car do you have that has this?

Goodbye enthusiasts? :confused: What do you think the WRC/F1 cars are using these days? It's not a stick with an H-pattern. :lol:

Not really a good yardstick to judge by. Teams are not able to compete in F1 and WRC due to costs and electronic crap like DSG-type gearboxes is one of the biggest reasons why.

NASCAR on the other hand has every grid position filled every weekend...and they use the old H type pattern.

Audi actually had DSG in their old rally Quattros. As noted above it is not an automatic but a manual gearbox with two layshafts and two clutches - you switch from layshaft to layshaft. Therefore there is seamless power delivery - the next gear is already engaged. It's an ultraslick system that is way above and beyond the BMW SMG and much better than the Ferrari F1 gearbox. Yes it has the disadvantage that it is sequential like a Hewland, so you can't downshift directly from 5th to 2nd etc.

Porsche is about to offer their own version ... this is where the world is going.

Now would I want one for my own road car ... not sure ... I enjoy shifting a manual gear box and think that I am actually rather good at it ... at the same time the Audi DSG box downshifts are unmatchable by even the best driver - and the upshifts are seamless. There is no doubt that a car with DSG is going to be faster, but certainly not as playful as a regular manual box.

Well I think that the 5 speed auto that i heard they will probly be putting in would be good for me, But a 6 speed auto would be oh so much better.

While a DSG sounds like it might be an interesting compromise with the advantage of sub-second shifting speeds and the tech-geek in me would love to put one in my drag-racer...

I want to hear you back up this statement or question or whatever it was.

"Sure, most people here drive 5spd or 6spd cars, but if Subaru is going to win over the USDM region, they're going to have to start putting the a newer tranny into the '08 Impreza?"

I have an opinion about putting overly-complex and expensive technology into reasonably priced cars. My case study is VW, but I'll leave it at that.


Kes - Sure thing. If Subaru is going to take a larger chunk of the "sport sedan" market, then the WRX needs to evolve. I don't know how many people I know personally, would get a WRX "IF" it had a sport shift function of sometime in it. I know some of my friends are getting the new GTI w/ DSG once it hits here this fall because 1) They love how it drives (per their 3.2 V6 TT drives they've done) and 2.) The tranny is solid.

What I see Subaru doing in the US market place is placing them in a spot to take a chunk out of... Saying Acura's growing base. Here in Portland, OR, we're home to the LARGEST Subbie population that I know of in the US simply because of the weather we have. The AWD is the selling point, but what can they do to make it more sweet so that people with bite?

My logic - If the STi has a 6 speed manual, then why the hell doesn't the WRX or even an STi have a 6 speed Auto Sportshift as an option?

Case in point, if they do release an STi with a "DSG" or "SMG" type of tranny, it will make good use of the power and allow for some people who don't know how to drive a stick (which again, the arguement "it's not hard to drive a stick" isn't the point) or people who can't due to injury or other reason, could pick up Subaru's premeier flag ship car for maybe a couple thousand more.

If Subaru is smart, they'll realize that putting the 4AT in the '06 WRX really isn't going to sell at all due to it just being packaged with the "Limited" brand. While I do agree most of the peopl who drive Rex's, drive a manual and say "If you're not driving a stick, get the hell out of my way...", however, if Subaru was smart (which is what they're doing in Japan...) is putting the LegacyGT tranny in the WRX over there, but NOT giving us that option over there.

What it boils down to is choice. Subuaru knows that the American people like to have options before them. Why not EOL the 4AT and put the LegacyGT tranny in? it's been tested since the JDM market gets the tranny, why not bring it over here? That closes in on cost since you get rid of one tranny and put in another. Mait. might be moer on the other one depending on if people abuse it, but point being..... if Subaru is giong to take a larger chunk of the market, they need to offer a sporty line up that is inviting to everyone, not just a select crowd.

while there might be some demand for a DSG, it would have to be huge to offset the engineering and development costs as well as increased cost in materials over a typical transmission.

Remember that they would have to develop the tranny from scratch and then licence all the patents that Audi owns. Try to guess what that would cost over a regular automatic?

the cost does not justify the benefit. maybe one day. yeah, I would consider one.

while there might be some demand for a DSG, it would have to be huge to offset the engineering and development costs as well as increased cost in materials over a typical transmission.

Remember that they would have to develop the tranny from scratch and then licence all the patents that Audi owns. Try to guess what that would cost over a regular automatic?

the cost does not justify the benefit. maybe one day. yeah, I would consider one.

Eh....not as much as you think.

VAG does not own the patents. BorgWarner owns the patents...at least according to the LONG discussion on vwvortex.com

SO, as much as I hate to say this, FHI could buy the tranny from BW and the engineer the rest of it. This would keep costs down.

That would be interesting if Subaru ever offers a DSG. I'd definitely be interested. They shouldn't get rid of stick, but it would be cool if they offered an additional option. Bring over a higher performance Legacy with a plush interior and an option for DSG, and I'll buy it!

Or Subaru could be planning on offering a tranny like the NGT designed by prodrive some time after the all new STi comes out. That's what I would guess.

Oh yeah and if they do they might actually get me to trade up. Well maybe that and active front and rear differentials. :banana:

Never know, but I figure if the '08 is getting completely made over... I'm hoping for a tranny like this.

I'd go :banana: for it. :)

Get this crap out of here!

Considering we don't even get the JDM-only goodies currently offered, and we can't get 6MTs in the Legacy, Forester or WRX, I'd say we'll see a Subaru DSG about the 10th of Never.

While I'm a manual driver, I like the DSG idea, auto when needed, sport mode when desired if done right and I believe that's what the people at BW have been doing. I'd highly consider it in a more potent Legacy STi, at least a car with more power in particular which gives me the ability to keep both hands on the wheel better and just lay the power to the ground while switching with some paddles. As for Subaru and timeframe and guessing, one could only wonder...

[And the current WRC box, which you can buy for £60,000 ($108,225) launches, and shifts on it's own, but, as per WRC rule compliance, also allows you to shift it manually should the automatic systems fail.

It doesn't use the clutch for any of the in-gear shifts.

Exactly. DSG is a gimmick for rich poseurs.

Interestingly, I initially thought that about the Maser's flappy paddle, but it actually makes sense as you're going around corners, keeping both hands on the wheel, shifting at 7500 RPM almost instantly, and not losing any momentum or upsetting the balance of the car. Of course, that's the single case where it is great, there are plenty of other situations where it either doesn't add any value, or just plain sucks.

In an ideal world, I'd have a car with an "optional clutch", or just use it for moving off.

What car do you have that has this?

WTLM :o

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10873524&postcount=12

WTLM :o

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10873524&postcount=12


Very nice! I've been trying to get my mom to buy one (her Jag XJR was totaled by some idiot who failed to notice she and a few other cars were stopped at a red light), but she bought a Prius. :confused: :mad: :lol:

According to the Prodrive website:
wrc - transmission

The Subaru Impreza S10 uses a 6 speed semiautomatic transmission actuated by the same paddle shift on the steering column as factory cars.

The S10 comes with three fully active differentials, new for the S10 is a fully active Xtrac epicyclic mechanised rear differential. This offers three main improvements, better distribution of torque, increased traction and greater ground clearance due to smaller packaging. An increase to both the service life and choice of set-up options is also provided as a result of these changes.


Launch control is enhanced with a new anti-stall programme which is an improvement on that used in the S9, and as part of the system, the S10 also comes with an automatic first to second gear change. Coupled with the launch control, this enables the car to optimise performance from the start on a consistent basis.

More info on: http://www.prodrive.com

Yes but isn't that system like over $100,000 grand?

Yes but isn't that system like over $100,000 grand?

This the reference farther up to selling body parts.

This the reference farther up to selling body parts.

They don't have to be your body parts... :devil:

Eh....not as much as you think.

VAG does not own the patents. BorgWarner owns the patents...at least according to the LONG discussion on vwvortex.com

SO, as much as I hate to say this, FHI could buy the tranny from BW and the engineer the rest of it. This would keep costs down.

simply buying the technology won't be enough. they have to reengineer it for the subaru drivetrain configuration. going from transverse to longitude isn't just a one week action item for the engineering team, thats starting from scratch.

even though it is completely possible to engineer, the market does not warrent such an investment. end of story, really, unless they figure out a way to make it for nearly the same cost as an automatic.

stick with VW. they will always be good for throwing in overly complex systems for you to pay to fix. I wish I was kidding.

I'd much rather have Subaru use their resources to develop more sophisticated engine technology, including direct injection, that could result in higher power outputs that complywith control of future emission regulations and get decent milage. Save the fancy transmissions for the deep pocket boys. I'd settle for a strong straightforward manual transmission any day.

Exactly. DSG is a gimmick for rich poseurs.

If knowing how to use a clutch is something you feel you can brag about then I kind of pity you.

Let's not degrade this into yet another name-calling fest. Every time there's a thread that makes any mention of a transmission that doesn't involve a clutch pedal, people get so worked up like their religion was offended or something. It's silly.

Let's not degrade this into yet another name-calling fest. Every time there's a thread that makes any mention of a transmission that doesn't involve a clutch pedal, people get so worked up like their religion was offended or something. It's silly.

So, Religion is silly?

So, Religion is silly?

Is driving a manual transmission considered a religion? ;)

Wasn't the original Impreza WRC semi-automatic transmission designed off of the standard H shift box, and still uses the H pattern when shifting, only it's hydraulically actuated?

Also, am I the only one who noticed the article talking about Prodrive's semi-auto they created for street cars?

I agree with the thread starter. There are people who would like to have a paddle shifted manual on a WRX or STi. Being able to drive through the city in auto mode, and still having the power and response of a manual, with the ease of paddle shifting while autocrossing, track driving, or back road fun sounds like a positive to me.

This weekend, I got a ride in a friend's Audi TT with DSG and it was awesome. Shifts were very quick and launches were great. I think it is only a matter of time before these are available for most cars. I will not be replacing my car (STI) until there is something like an Evo or STI that does. (Hopefully it will have direct injection and a hatchback body, too)

Also, last month's Speed Magazine (by Road and Track) featured a TT/ DSG that ran a 3.8 0-60 (IIRC). It had a lot of power, but shows the potential of AWD and DSG. I beleive the car was done by HPA.

Petter Solberg has one in his car

I would be interested in it. I'd have to test drive one to be sure, but the idea appeals to me, even though i can drive a stick on an STI just fine. I don't think driving skill equates to how well you can shift (just look at autocross), so I'm not ashamed to desire an SMG/DSG type system which is NOT the same as a sportshift automatic as people still don't seem to get.

And in some ways, Subaru will have less things to fix for auto-manuals because there's less chance for abuse.

If others are doing it, especially Mitsu, and people are requesting it, I think Subaru should do it if they want to compete in the future.

I love a 6 speed dual syncro gearbox.

My wife could drive the car after 1 6-pack too many.

simply buying the technology won't be enough. they have to reengineer it for the subaru drivetrain configuration. going from transverse to longitude isn't just a one week action item for the engineering team, thats starting from scratch.

even though it is completely possible to engineer, the market does not warrent such an investment. end of story, really, unless they figure out a way to make it for nearly the same cost as an automatic.

stick with VW. they will always be good for throwing in overly complex systems for you to pay to fix. I wish I was kidding.

I understand all of this but at least they wont have to develop the technology of the gearbox itself. And going from longitude to transvers isnt starting from scratch...they just have to re-engineer the transfer casings and they are fine.

I would agree that the market would probably not support that kind of investment...and I am happy about that as I am not a fan of the DSG equipped Z4 I drove the other day. The shifts were crap. I just want SOA to put the STI 6 speed in everything.

As for VW...I have stories from the last two VW's I owned that would make your head spin...but for just a teaser they had one of my cars for 7 months.

I would agree that the market would probably not support that kind of investment...and I am happy about that as I am not a fan of the DSG equipped Z4 I drove the other day. The shifts were crap. I just want SOA to put the STI 6 speed in everything.



the Z4 is a SMG which is only a Single Clutch...

the BorgWarner "Dual Clutch" that Audi/VW uses is 100x better...

http://ts.borgwarner.com/images_products/large/dual-clutch-01.gif


Both clutches are electrohydraulically controlled and this allows two gears to be selected at the same time to minimize interruption in power delivery during shifts. As one clutch opens, the other closes.


There is NO human that will be able to shift as fast as this system...

I understand all of this but at least they wont have to develop the technology of the gearbox itself. And going from longitude to transvers isnt starting from scratch...they just have to re-engineer the transfer casings and they are fine.

I would agree that the market would probably not support that kind of investment...and I am happy about that as I am not a fan of the DSG equipped Z4 I drove the other day. The shifts were crap. I just want SOA to put the STI 6 speed in everything.

As for VW...I have stories from the last two VW's I owned that would make your head spin...but for just a teaser they had one of my cars for 7 months.

Sti 6 speed in everything, agreed.

It will be interesting to see how the DSG technology advances.

When Porsche brought the Tiptronic to market in the 80's, I thought it would be a fantastic advancement. When I finally got around to driving a car with a tiptronic, it was totally wrong for the way I drive. Works for some people, but you would have to make major changes for me to want to use it.

There is NO human that will be able to shift as fast as this system...
There's also no engine that can change speeds fast enough to keep up with it. The transmission is still handicapped by the engine technology.

The only other drawback with the system is that it still needs to assume what direction you're shifting in. As it preselects the next gear, it must preselect the proper one. If you're looking to downshift and the TCU is expecting you to upshift, it still takes it some extra time to shift the gears back.

Also, you still cannot skip gears.

I'm not knocking the DSG.. great idea.. great execution, it's certainly the wave of the future of auto-manuals. I'm just pointing out that it's not perfect yet.

My wife could drive the car after 1 6-pack too many.

Is that a good thing? :)

The only other drawback with the system is that it still needs to assume what direction you're shifting in. As it preselects the next gear, it must preselect the proper one. If you're looking to downshift and the TCU is expecting you to upshift, it still takes it some extra time to shift the gears back.

Also, you still cannot skip gears.


BMW also has a new transmission in development that may be used in the new M3 and it is called ZSG. It addresses the two criticisms you advance. It uses a single clutch that operates at high speed (speed is selectable) and has a continuously engaged central shaft thus obviating the problem of gear shift direction in automatic mode. It also allows the skipping of gears. These are pretty exciting times for advances in transmission technology ... albeit I continue to be fond of just regular manuals ... if the ratios on the STI just were a bit more motorsport oriented ...