Well im in the market for a borla header and I want to know your experiences with them. I've searched a little bit and have looked over here (http://www.subarureview.com/) (which is extremely helpful) but I want to hear some feedback from you guys. Basically what I want to know is the reliablity of them. Will they last? Were you satisfied with the purchase? why/whynot? Would you do it again? Do the gen IV still tend to crack?

thanks!

I think most people that have them on the boards are pretty happy with them. I think I only know of one person that doesn't like them due to rattling and whatnot. Definitely do a search for "Borla header" and read up. Like I said, most seem pretty happy with Borla.

There are two questions you need to ask.. Do you want performance or sound? and.. How much do you want to spend?

borlas are a great low price option to get small gains, great sound and keep most people happy.

in short. Yes it will most likely crack. My new gens have cracked, and been replaced, and cracked again. Borla is good about replacing them.

butt dyno:
you will see small amounts of gains on the low end. slim to no improvement in the top.

sound: amazing rumbling spaced out exhaust pulses
here is a Link to a video of my car (http://webpages.charter.net/lindorff/impreza/scoobysport%20borla%2002rs.WMV). 02 rs with borla headers, 2.25 inch midpipe, scoobysport axleback.


Mine will most likely be for sale within the next month as i am planning on upgrading to TWE equal length headers. Do some searching around the NA forums to learn more. there have been multiple header threads within the past month alone!!! Keywords are equal length, unequal length, borla, twe, cobb , brullen, borla replica, mrt.
look at Rallitek.com, cobbtuning.com, techworkseng.com,
If you dont know of rs25.com join that forum as well.
Pat

is his outback 2.5L or was it the outback sport that was 2.5L. if its 2.2 you are stuck with the borlas

^^^ Sounds nice man. What else have you done? :confused:

Damnit SVEK you got in the way of my post arrows :lol:

Damnit SVEK you got in the way of my post arrows :lol:

haha yah i ruin everything :lol:

I had a set of Borla's, got them new at cost (the joys of working ina shop) so I didn't feel ripped off when I got them on my car and noticed very little difference in performance. Sound was a little grumblier, the car "felt" faster but really wans't. It's one of those sounds faster and revs a little better/smoother so much BE faster. But the same people were just as much faster than me as before. The car did feel a little better though and for some people that is enough. I kept them for about 6 months then sold them. If I were to do it again I definitely would NOT buy them and would instead buck up for EL Headers.

sound: amazing rumbling spaced out exhaust pulses
here is a Link to a video of my car (http://webpages.charter.net/lindorff/impreza/scoobysport%20borla%2002rs.WMV). 02 rs with borla headers, 2.25 inch midpipe, scoobysport axleback.
Pat


There's something to be said about that sound. I'm not a ricer or at least I don't think I am but that sounds really nice. :D I like it a lot. Gotta get my single port Borlas installed right dangit.

is his outback 2.5L or was it the outback sport that was 2.5L. if its 2.2 you are stuck with the borlas

My car has the 2.5L. The Outback Sport is the model that has the 2.2L. The problem I have is...I truly don't have or want to spend alot of money. I'm 17. I'm cheap. I surely don't want to spend 750+ :eek: just on ONE mod...and for that one mod to make the overall sound of the car to be less attractive. I think the EL headers are out of the park in my mind. I have around 800 to work with. What would YOU buy? I will be having the car for a couple more years and then probably upgrading to the famous WRX once in college.

So..what are some worthwhile mods that'll last for a couple years?

+1 for borla. Yes, they aren't really a performance increase, but my god how they sound.

Furthermore, I've had these for about two years and have had NO cracking, no clanking, nothing. They've been just fine.

Here is a video of my car (borla headers, custom 2.25 midpipe hooked to a 3 inch perrin dual tip axleback. No resonators)

Pardon the crap quality, its from my cellphone.

CLICK ME! (http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAxOTY0NjZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx)

OR ME! (http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAxOTY0NzZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx)

OR EVEN ME! (http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAxOTY0ODZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx)

Sorry, had to whore out my car a bit :)

My car has the 2.5L. The Outback Sport is the model that has the 2.2L. The problem I have is...I truly don't have or want to spend alot of money. I'm 17. I'm cheap. I surely don't want to spend 750+ :eek: just on ONE mod...and for that one mod to make the overall sound of the car to be less attractive. I think the EL headers are out of the park in my mind. I have around 800 to work with. What would YOU buy? I will be having the car for a couple more years and then probably upgrading to the famous WRX once in college.

So..what are some worthwhile mods that'll last for a couple years?

Btw, I know what you're going through. I'm 20 and struggling through college with money, so I don't have much for the car. Don't worry about EL's in your situation. Get borlas, and have a decent ride. Some of us subie purists are going to push the EL's because of their performance increase. If you're cheap, do borla. You'll be happy with them.

Furthermore, the easiest mods that'll last for years are going to be suspension. Get decent rims/tires or upgrade to a set of shocks and springs. Or a rear sway is an excellent option for handling, and will only cost you about 150-200 depending on company.

You can also increase handling in a variety of ways with different bushing sets. Upgrade your steering rack bushings with a set of Whitelines. It'll only cost you about 30 bucks. Or change the endlink bushings.

There are plenty of options. However, when it comes to engine mods, don't expect much for little money. Doing a catback exhaust would be a great option and can be had for about 200 bucks if you get a good shop to do a custom catback system for you. Throw on a magnaflow muffler and you'll have yourself a quality exhaust for not too much money. On our N/A's, you have to pump in a lot of money to get significant results with engine mods. Go with suspension mods first and you'll be able to take the car harder in turns and have a much more enjoyable ride for yourself.

Hope some of that helps.

ok so you have the 2.5. at least then you have options. the cobb headers arent THAT expensive. and if you have like a stromung catback you will love the sound. its still a boxer engine, the EL headers dont eliminate all of the sound.

my borla's rattled until i took them off :banana:

HolyCrikey, thats my problem. All of the aftermarket strut/spring combos WILL lower the car. One of the main reasons why I got the OB was because of the raised suspension. I like the rear sway bar idea though.

Catback - 300
Used Cobb CAI - 200
RSB - 200

would I be satisfied with this weak:lol: setup?

HolyCrikey, thats my problem. All of the aftermarket strut/spring combos WILL lower the car. One of the main reasons why I got the OB was because of the raised suspension. I like the rear sway bar idea though.

Catback - 300
Used Cobb CAI - 200
[b]RSB - 200[b]

would I be satisfied with this weak:lol: setup?

you can get a brand new 20mm rear bar for like $80

I bet you would. if you want to lower it, look for some legacy suspension. I think they're a good 1-2 " lower than the outback.

I have all the above on my car.

^^^^^

Hmm... Yup, I'm not sure of any other performance springs for the OBS.

As to if you'll be satisfied? Depends. I was satisfied for bout a month, but then I got bored. Thus, I'll need a WRX within a year. But I know I'll get bored with that. So I'll need an STI :)

It's like that whole damn "If you give a mouse a cookie" thing... I just need more!!!

I think you'll definitely like the improved sound and it'll get you at least some noticeable increase in torque and hp from the setup.

I'd definitely suggest rims and tires though. Exterior mods always seem to please. And it'll definitely be better when it comes to handling if you get some decent rubber.

a few points:
Suspension mods will produce the best bang for buck in your situation.

You will be happy with borla headers. It is in your price range, great sound, small gains. Just dont expect it to make your car into a rocket. As others have said you need quite a bit of cash to get the ej25 to be fast. but thats not to say that with a few easy mods you cant have a quick, extremely fun car.

your cobb intake, catback, borla headers and rear swaybar plan is a great start. you will definately be happy with this. but you wont want to settle!!! This is where it begins, and you will keep wanting more!


^^^ Sounds nice man. What else have you done? :confused:

heres some laughs to show the addiction!!! Listing everything for fun and to prove the wanting more point!:
Cobb intake, borla headers, 2.25 inch unresonated midpipe, scoobysport axleback, Gfb LW/underdriven pulleys, Exedy sport clutch, exedy lw flywheel, BPM short throw, sti ti shift knob, adjustable pedals!, kartboy shifter bushings, Kartboy Exhaust hangers (Great Mod), whiteline steering rack bushings, Whiteline Sport anti lift kit, Whiteline front swaybar, cusco adj rear swaybar, eibach pro-kit springs, KYB-AGX adjustable struts, Group N Strut top mounts, cusco front and rear strut bars, momo jet 350 mm steering wheel, boss splash hub, autometer guages, 2.5rs headrest embroidery, falken azenis, my rims are now sprayed gold. wrx hood swap. fake carbon fiber sidemarkers, Jun Eyelids, old school red 2.5rs badge!

car goes into the shop TOMMORROW! :banana: :banana: for a leaking headgasket. she will come out with Cometic Gaskets, TWE stage 2 cams, TWE Valvesprings/retainers, Perfect Power ECU tune, Group N Tranny mount.
within the month TWE Equal length headers and resonated midpipe will be ordered, and i should be semi close to keeping up with stock wrx's in the lower gears:D

ha ive had to keep editing this post as i remember more parts that are on the car!

so that kinda shakey rumbly exhaust note is done with unequal length headers? cuz that sounds mint!!!

Ryan

yeah it wont be nearly as pronounced with equal length headers, but from the majority of sound clips floating around the site, it still keeps a mean sound.

Nice list man. Looks like a pretty badass car.

as it sits now its still quite slow! its quick in the twisties and on an autocross course though.
with the cams and PP tuning it should be a great improvement.

I've been researching the Borla Header topic alot myself. Here's my results:

1. They sound AWESOME. True Subie boxer sound that nobody else fully delivers. And it doesn't seem to matter what you do from the header back, it's SUBARU.

2. Buy new. Older generations had problems with cracking. Buying new you make sure you don't have this problem. www.boxer4racing.com seems to have the best price. If you find a better price, PM me cuz I wanna know it. :)

3. They're half the price or less than the equal length headers out there, even though power gains won't be as big as the EL's, you still get 75% of the gains at 50% or less the price. Can't go wrong there.

4. Take a video clip when it's all said and done. I need to add to my collection. They all just sound so damn good. :D

you still get 75% of the gains at 50% or less the price.

See, I don't think anyone will argue the sound aspect, but plenty of people argue the gains that you get from them. Most people that have the Borla header say that they barely noticed any gains, but are very happy with the sound. Some even refer to it as a "sound mod" only, although I don't see how it can not give you at least SOME gains considering you are improving on the airflow. I think this will continue to be an interesting topic for a while. I guess it depends on just how far you want to go with your Suby. If you want power you have to pay for it. Nonetheless, this is still very interesting.

I've been researching the Borla Header topic alot myself. Here's my results:

1. They sound AWESOME. True Subie boxer sound that nobody else fully delivers. And it doesn't seem to matter what you do from the header back, it's SUBARU.

We are starting to find that it is more of a Borla header sound than the boxer sound. While the boxer is quite rumbly and offbeat... its not THAT (borla) rumbly. in short non technical terms! (someone care to explain?) The way the borlas are made (unequal length) causes larger spaces in the exhaust pulses as they exit the car.
2. Buy new. Older generations had problems with cracking. Buying new you make sure you don't have this problem. www.boxer4racing.com seems to have the best price. If you find a better price, PM me cuz I wanna know it. :)
The cracking issue still exists in the new generations although not as often as in the previous gens. Mine have cracked twice. I have also read of many other members with new gens cracking aswell.

3. They're half the price or less than the equal length headers out there, even though power gains won't be as big as the EL's, you still get 75% of the gains at 50% or less the price. Can't go wrong there.
while i have no data to back this up, i think its safe to say that you dont get nearly 75 % of the gains of EL headers.
Borlas are mostly a sound mod. Small gains can be found and may differ due to the type of butt dyno used.

with that said . the price is very affordable and the gain in sound / small performance is enough for most people who dont want to break their wallet.

4. Take a video clip when it's all said and done. I need to add to my collection. They all just sound so damn good. :D

But they sure do sound good!!!!! :disco: :disco:

So, I had an epiphany when driving home from school today. I remember test driving one of the older WRXs and I remember that the car basically had nothing...but when the turbo came into play, it was amaaaazing. The topend of that car was insane, but did not have much at the bottom end (so? thats what you get for basically slapping a turbo on a 2.0L engine). I know my Outback's topend doesnt have the potential as the famous WRX...but what I care about is what gets you up and going. When driving the car 'hard', rarely do I see myself looking at my speed (Don't worry, I know my car well enough to know how fast or slow I'm going.) What I'm saying is, I don't care whatsoever about numbers. As pathetic and non-enthusiast as it sounds, I just care about how it feels. But what can I say, I'm just a kid right now...I'm sure my attitude will change once I grow up and am able to afford some of the more sportier cars. I'm just like any other kid in highschool, I'd like to find some things to make the car feel faster ("butt-dyno"). please don't take it the wrong way and am open for ideas.

bump. what im looking for are somethings that will help the acceleration of the car from a roll...around 20mph or so

what are EL headers?

Ryan

Equal-Length

car goes into the shop TOMMORROW! :banana: :banana: for a leaking headgasket. she will come out with Cometic Gaskets, TWE stage 2 cams, TWE Valvesprings/retainers, Perfect Power ECU tune, Group N Tranny mount.
within the month TWE Equal length headers and resonated midpipe will be ordered, and i should be semi close to keeping up with stock wrx's in the lower gears:D


Let us know how the new mods feel when they're on the car. How much is the shop charging for a PP tune, and who is doing your work? Maybe you can show us a dyno or two? ;D

bump. what im looking for are somethings that will help the acceleration of the car from a roll...around 20mph or so

It shouldn't matter if the acceleration is coming from a roll or not.

If you're looking for power gains across the powerband, and don't have very much money, I'd consider getting an intake and catback before anything else. Then, you can add your choice of headers later when you (hopefully) have more money.

Let us know how the new mods feel when they're on the car. How much is the shop charging for a PP tune, and who is doing your work? Maybe you can show us a dyno or two? ;D

Im basically at their mercy as the list is quite extensive. including, timing belt, water pump, thermostat gasket, replace tranny fluid,sti tranny mount, re-mount alternator (freak encounter with a snowbank)/change belts, cams, valvesprings/retainers, headgaskets, perfect power with just base map from rallitek for now, testing coil pack/replacing? oil change! lol..etc... it goes on and on..

i would have liked to produce a few dyno runs before i got the cams installed, unfortunately i had an oil leak and the headgasket issue so i didnt want to push the car. However im thinking..once the cams and pp are in i will do a few runs.. then once i swap to equal length headers i will do some more run. That may give us some kind of clue as to how well the EL's flow above the Borlas. Wont be perfect due to diferent days / condition/ parts etc.. but hey its better than nothing! lol.

Sound of beauty (http://http://media.putfile.com/Picture-01540)

This is a sound clip of my 05 RS with Injen intake, Borla headers, and Custom catback to a magnaflow muffler. Sorry its kinda raspy cause of the wind.

Hmm...link isn't working for me.

yea the link doesnt work

feels etc...

So you are looking for mid-range torque. Speed does matter when accelerating because engine RPM at a given speed are dependent on gearing. Unless you clutch kick to build up the revs, most grunt on the street is going to be called upon in the mid range (3-5.5k). Midrange power will come from smooth intake flow, including through the throttle body, intake ports and manifold, and from smooth exhaust flow.

What about modifying the Borlas to be EL? I know that welding stainless is difficult, but if it costs you less than the difference in price from Borla to TWE to have it done, maybe it would be worth the difference?

FYI:
Borla
http://www.teaguesauto.com/images/borla/rsheader.jpg
$300 from www.boxer4racing.com

Tech Works Engineering
http://www.teaguesauto.com/images/Techworks/headers.jpg
$750 from www.boxer4racing.com

If you look at these two piping systems, you can see that the TWEs have MUCH longer primary tubes (the tubes for each individual cylinger port), which, at 2.25" in diameter, will help augment the low-range power of the Boxer design. The 4 into one design helps with collection and further helps with the mid-range torque (usually this helps for high-mid range torque on inline motors, but Boxers are special).

It's not that the Borla is a "bad" pipe or doesn't give power gains, but it LOOKS like it is tailored for a high-rpm powerband, which isn't necessarily where the 2.5 flat 4 does best.

I'm looking into headers as well and will probably go with the TWEs even though I can get the Borlas at cost. Down the line, I'm also doing ITBs on my 2.5l Legacy Outback, so airflow is key.

Sidenote: I have a dyno for my 2.5l Phase I motor with nothing but AIRNIX and Magnaflow muffler that I could upload for Pat's "baseline" just so we can have an idea of where the power comes in. I REALLY want to know about the Stage II cams

Just out of curiousity, would EL headers give you the most bang for the buck, or would it be a nice catback exhaust? In other words, let's say you could only buy one mod within the price range of 1000 (excluding engine swaps) what would you buy?

Just out of curiousity, would EL headers give you the most bang for the buck, or would it be a nice catback exhaust? In other words, let's say you could only buy one mod within the price range of 1000 (excluding engine swaps) what would you buy?

This depends heavily on the first rule of tuning: "Decide what you want out of the car" - A hardcore drag racer will probably get a N2O system or Drag tires, an autocrosser would probably say coilovers and sway bar, while a Rallycrosser might say under-armor or a roll bar. I'm a drifter, so if I had a stock car with $1000 to spend, I would buy suspenison goodies.

It sounds like you just want some more beef at low/mid range, in which case I'd tell you to do a good intake and a cat-back system. If you want headers, you will have to decide whether true performance at a high price is going to be more important to you than nice sound for real cheap, and the answer to this will most likely be different for everyone. There is no doubt that it is a difficult question, it can be very jard to justify spending $750 on a header that will only give you 6-10hp at 5000rpm, or $1200 on a set of coilovers when 90% or more of the driving time you spend is on the street going to work and the grocery store.

For getting some extra pep with basic bolt-ons, I would suggest the following (in loose order):
Intake
Cat-back
Lightweight Pulleys
Grounding Kit
Header
Cams ?

This depends heavily on the first rule of tuning: "Decide what you want out of the car" - A hardcore drag racer will probably get a N2O system or Drag tires, an autocrosser would probably say coilovers and sway bar, while a Rallycrosser might say under-armor or a roll bar. I'm a drifter, so if I had a stock car with $1000 to spend, I would buy suspenison goodies.

It sounds like you just want some more beef at low/mid range, in which case I'd tell you to do a good intake and a cat-back system. If you want headers, you will have to decide whether true performance at a high price is going to be more important to you than nice sound for real cheap, and the answer to this will most likely be different for everyone. There is no doubt that it is a difficult question, it can be very jard to justify spending $750 on a header that will only give you 6-10hp at 5000rpm, or $1200 on a set of coilovers when 90% or more of the driving time you spend is on the street going to work and the grocery store.

For getting some extra pep with basic bolt-ons, I would suggest the following (in loose order):
Intake
Cat-back
Lightweight Pulleys
Grounding Kit
Header
Cams ?
Yeah, I figured this was pretty much the case. I'm still learning and still in that phase of "I want something I can bolt on without having to do anything to the car or the product." The intake stuff alone is still a little confusing to me because everyone that has the EJ22 engine does so many different things with this. Modifying the stock box, buying an EJ25 one and modifying that, or taking the chance with an Ebay one and having it not even fit, getting an MAF adapter, these questions still get me a little confused as to what to do. I don't even know if putting on an Intake is that simple. I will probably just end up keeping it stock engine wise as I am rather happy with the power I have. In the future I will probably add on a rear sway bar and struts for handling. That's why I'm constantly on these boards trying to learn as much as I can, now that I actually have a scooby. :lol:

It looks like on the TWEs though that your going to need 2.25" piping made from the header back. I think that since the borla's are a direct replacement and don't require more exhaust modification (though its probably recommended), and they create a nice sound, they are geared toward a different consumer than the TWE's.

I think i might buy the TWE's and a high flow cat, though i'd like the sound of the borla's..

Sorry bout that this should do (http://media.putfile.com/Picture-01540)

Still doesn't work.......

Nah, I'm just playin' it sounds really nice man. It has a nice aggressive sound to it.

the thing i like most about it is the extremely quiet idle but the slightest gas given to it and it is loud as hell.

Sort of a hijack, but related. I just bought the Borla headers and am trying to find someone to install them. Especially after listening/watching these clips!!!

I'd attempt it myself if a) I had time and b) if someone could tell me tightening torque specs. I don't want to overtighten or not have them tight enough.

The one shop I found willing to install asked me to bring the parts in, cause he wanted to see how the headers connect to the engine. Real confident :eek:

Anyone know? Or anyone know of a shop in Lancaster, PA?

BTW-I went with the Borla Headers cause it's half as much AND keeps the boxer sound!!!
Peace,
Oquipah

all shops will tell you to bring it in before they give you an estimate of how much its gonna cost.
any shop can do it! its quite simple.

Sort of a hijack, but related. I just bought the Borla headers and am trying to find someone to install them. Especially after listening/watching these clips!!!

I'd attempt it myself if a) I had time and b) if someone could tell me tightening torque specs. I don't want to overtighten or not have them tight enough.

The one shop I found willing to install asked me to bring the parts in, cause he wanted to see how the headers connect to the engine. Real confident :eek:

Anyone know? Or anyone know of a shop in Lancaster, PA?

BTW-I went with the Borla Headers cause it's half as much AND keeps the boxer sound!!!
Peace,
Oquipah

It's really not that hard to do. If you do it yourself honestly it would be easier to drop the whole exhaust. If you still have all stock stuff on where the header connects to the cat the bolt is a pain to get to. Also most likely it's rusted to all hell. I just dropped the whole thing and broke the bolts on the ground. Then hang the back of the exhaust then put the header on. Should take 30-45 min depending on how rusted your bolts are. I would also recommend new bolts.

If you really don't wanna do it yourself my friend owns an exhaust shop in Bridgeport. Hell I've taken mine off plenty of times there and even did my trans last week there. Can't say he'd do it for free though. I'm off on vacation all week next week and I'm not doing anything so if you want me to I'll call my friend and get a price. Let me know.

BTW-I went with the Borla Headers cause it's half as much AND keeps the boxer sound!!

The "Boxer" sound that most people think about is really just terrible mixing of exhaust pulses that is done by stock and stock-type exhaust manifolds :lol:

The TWE pipe (from what clips I've heard) just smooths out the pulses by mixing them better and improving scavenging. The TRUE Boxer sound is still there, it just isn't augmented by crappy exhaust.

The "Boxer" sound that most people think about is really just terrible mixing of exhaust pulses that is done by stock and stock-type exhaust manifolds :lol:

The TWE pipe (from what clips I've heard) just smooths out the pulses by mixing them better and improving scavenging. The TRUE Boxer sound is still there, it just isn't augmented by crappy exhaust.
Way to bring the mood down :lol:

Hey, at least it's not like Honda, where the real sound of the motor is a maddening buzz :lol:

Our motors sound gooood - drive around a twin sidepiped, twin open wastegate 2.2T/2.5 hybrid and you'll agree!

Our motors sound gooood - drive around a twin sidepiped, twin open wastegate 2.2T/2.5 hybrid and you'll agree!
HELL YEAH!!! I totally agree.........up until that part with the drive around a twin sidepiped....If I knew what that meant I would totally do that, and I would do it so hard people would be like, "Wow, look at that guy doing some sweet twin sidepiped, twin open wastegating," but I have no clue what that means. :lol:

Actually I just drove around in an EJ22T scooby done right and it sounded awesome. My friend was totally wastegating it :D

Suparu- Is that in Bridgeport Lancaster or Montgomery County? I may take you up on the offer. I'm meeting with the local guy over lunch and will decide my route of action.

If it's Bridgeport Lancaster and you don't mind calling your buddy, that would be awesome!

Thanks,
Oquipah

So I met with the shop. HE has no problems doing the work, however wouldn't givve me an estimate. Figured a couple of hours for everything installed.

So I'm thinking he'll charge close to $150 or higher. Sound high?

Thanks,
Oquipah

It's in montgomery county right next to king of prussia. 150 I think is pretty steap. On a lift it would probably take a half hour to do. I called my friend but he must have went to sleep when he got home. I'll find out how much he would charge for a job like that. He already knows what is involved.

Sweet let me know if you find anything out. I'd rather save some money and have someone who knows exactly what is involved doing the work.

Peace,
Oquipah