ok...here are my following options...

i get a '94 Impreza L with an extra $10,000 in mod money...

pros:
• LOOK AT ALL THAT MOD MONEY
• its DOHC
• lighter
• insurance will be cheaper


cons:

• too much body work need to make it as beautiful as a RS
• need a new tranny if i want to run an EJ20...and i don't wanna spend all my money on a transmission!
• comes in wierd colors and might need a pricey paint job...


OR

i get a 2.5 RS with a very very limited amount of money...

pros:

• not too much dress-up mods needed
• LSD
• still be under warranty
• BLUE RIDGE PEARL...
• plenty other that i can't think of at the moment

cons:

• ahhh! insurance
• no mod money =(...
• hard to find in my area

i'm leaning toward getting a '94 and making it into a monster...
can you guys give me more feedback or/and more pros/cons about the 2 cars?

TIA

I would get the 94, I have an 01 and I'm absolutely sick of maintaining it. It was beautiful for a little while, but now it has scratches, swirl marks and my newly cracked windshield. I regret not getting silver. :(

Mike

Damn, $10,000 for my car that I just got I would:

Aluminum hood, aluminum trunk, lightweight seats (blue or blue/black), lightweight flywheel, lightweight clutch, lightweight pulley's, lightweight bumpers (all the lightweight stuff to get the weight down to 2200-2300lbs), short shifter, attempt to Jury rig a WRX turbo and an aftermarket intercooler to the car with exhaust, repaint it to Rally Blue, get a ver 5 suspension, whiteline tunning bushings all around with new sway bars and endlinks too, and some 15lbs 17" rims with some RE730's...

Maybe get some All-terrain tires w/ beater wheels too, and a rear LSD as well if there was money left...


I'd get the RS... Really. All that work is well, alot of work! :p

get the RS, and let me buy the L, or better yet sell me the L plus some cash for my RS without the mods :)
cus seriously, if I had the chance to do it over, and knew all I know now, hell I'd go for the L, trust me!

i have a 95lx.. 10K isn't enough to do a full WRX conversion. I'd just slam a turbo on the 1.8l and go from there or buy a 2.5 motor and tranny and turbo that.

I've got a 2000 RS, which I love, but the car payments are killing me. Can we say $500/month? Okay, so I am selling it within the next week or two, and I am going to pick up an older one - like a 94-96 L or LX (whatever model, I have no idea) and then here is what I figure I have to do:

1. Rear wing
2. Headlights
3. Foglights
4. Front spoiler
5. Front bumper
6. Assorted grille and other parts
7. Aluminum hood
8. Dynabat (13lb. battery)
9. H6 engine and 4EAT tranny from LL Bean wagon
10. LevelTEN torque converter
11. Custom headers
12. Single (dual?) turbo
13. Air to water intercooler
14. 16" MY00 Rims
15. Recaros
16. Instrument cluster?
17. Suspension (coil-overs)
18. Tint the windows
19. Install my stereo
20. FJO (or similar) engine management system
21. Go play!

I figure the car payment will be around $100 - $150 for a $6000 car (I have already seen quite a few around here) so that leaves me a few extra bills each month to buy stuff. I figure in a year I will be all done and will have a kick ass car. :)

James
www.RS25.com

My friend has a nice green Impreza L w/ a EJ22 engine swap from a turbo legacy. Didn't cost that much, very fast, very original, and runs on the stock tranny just fine. EJ22 sounds bad a$$ w/ an exhaust too. IMO, do that!:D

with the 1.8L. i hear they have stroker kits in japan.. just a thought

Originally posted by dRu18
with the 1.8L. i hear they have stroker kits in japan.. just a thought

Where? (and what are stroker kits? I havent heard that one yet :()

500 a month? you are getting ripped off

Actually it is $455/mo, but my credit just sucks... can you point me to a better finance company for my next cars? I am looking at getting two loans - one for the Impreza (about $6k) and one for a Blazer (about $8k).

James
www.RS25.com

Yes I want to hear more about these stroker kits also:)...Oh yeah get the 94...and build an absolute beast:D

Originally posted by EnterTheDragon
500 a month? you are getting ripped off

500/month * 36 month = 18,000

Now, I don't know the term of the loan in question, but I don't see that as evidence of getting ripped off.

yes, what is this stroker kit thing?

I bought a 1995 Brighton. Seriously, the earlier cars can be had with no power anything and no sunroof. If you're into performance, those are huge advantages (weight and stiffness). Buy an L or Brighton and save up for an engine transplant. (Be it WRX, STI or 2.5). You might want to keep an eye out for a wrecked RS if you don't want a JDM conversion.

PS. If you're near NJ, let me know. I bought my 95 for $1500 from a small vendor. No rust, no accidents, and it runs great!

oh i was assuming i was a 4-6 year loan, i've never come across someone paying for a car in 3 years

also I know some guys paying 455, and 485 for WRX's

I wouldn't put an H6 in an Impreza, even if it fit, it is damm heavy. The Impreza is nose heavy as it is.

As the price of the older mid 90s imprezas come down, I see a lot of potential using one as a platform for sticking all sorts of JDM and SOA goodies on it. As noted above, they are lighter, can be had with no sunroof, lighter windup windows, etc. The chassis is still the same... the VW guys have been doing this kind of thing for decades, and the honda tuners for years. This is hotrodding at its finest- taking the lightest platform and sticking in the biggest, baddest motor...


Glen

The H6 is only, what, 50 lbs heavier? I can get an aluminum or carbon hood, relocate the battery to the back and it equals out. How much does that battery weigh? 40 pounds?

Besides, I bet I can order some special coil overs and a bigger sway bar to compensate some. And with all that power (turbo it of course) it'll be a monster!

But does it fit?

At 1" longer that should not be a problem. I hear it is taller (darn, can we say custom hood scoop?). My figuring is this:

I suspect that the engine mounts will have to be custom fabricated (again who cares) but then it just drops in. It can't be significantly larger than the 2.5 engine because it fits into the same car they have been making for years that had the 2.5 engine in it. Maybe I have to work the hood (make a scoop/power buldge) to get it to fit, or custom make a lower intake manifold. That is easy.

It is kind of like the VR6 that VW makes - it fits into the same space as the 4 cylinder engine they had in there before. I can't imagine it would be much of a problem...

I'll know soon enough, huh?

James
www.RS25.com

i don't know it's all up to you. i've got a 00' L in blue ridge pearl, love the color and a bigger
engine then the previous years. but hey, with all that mod money, you can swap engines--you'd
have a lighter car and a bigger engine--wow. but..... rs's are good also because they have the
looks, hood scoop, spoiler( i've got a spoiler too but not as high as the rs's), and they've got factoury
proven power. well like i said, it's up to you.
rosco

I love my RS too, but think about it. If the chassis is the same for all the years (basically) then what is stopping me from bolting on all the parts? They all fit, and apparently Sugar even sells the whole kit.

Andrew has a nice 4 door RS that he put the 2dr wing on the back of and I didn't even notice that it was a four door until he opened the back door!

So I get a lighter, cheaper, faster car. Problems? Only when I blow everyone else away!

James
www.RS25.com

Originally posted by Ant WRX
My friend has a nice green Impreza L w/ a EJ22 engine swap from a turbo legacy. Didn't cost that much, very fast, very original, and runs on the stock tranny just fine. EJ22 sounds bad a$$ w/ an exhaust too. IMO, do that!:D

Actually my car is the Brighton Ed., even lighter than an L. Stock weight is 2660lbs.
If you can find an EJ22T motor it's a good strong block to start a built up with. They will not be as much as an EJ20 and easier to put into a US spec car. Then you could do it in stages; motor first, then IC, better heads and bigger turbo. The initial change is sooo great over the 1.8L, you'll love it.

my car is here on DLC's web page (http://www.xmission.com/~dac/centric/members/alan.htm)

IMHO the H6 is too heavy for an Impreza, your weight distribution would suck.
good luck

Originally posted by RS25.com
Problems? Only when I blow everyone else away!

Um, I had to say this, because there is nothing wrong with scooble dreaming - but I'm not sure all the desired mods would fit within the prescribed budget.

i'm having second thoughts about the RS..i don't know if i can handle NOT having power locks and a sunroof.... is there a way to get it factory installed? do y'all think the stock tranny will handle the power of the EJ20?

can i have more input in this subject?

Talk to Rallispec. I seem to recall they were offering UK Impreza turbo drivetrain swaps for around 10K all in. This means a 215 HP turbo with LOTS of room for improvement. A good exahaust and air filter sould get you up to at least 230 HP. An the Uk Impreza Turbo did 0-60 in about 5.3 seconds. You will be able to whup stock WRX's in a set up like that with ease.

Um Iowannaski, you presume to know my budget and/or how much money I have to spend on my hobbies?

Plenty of people can work hard and save money to do what they want to do.

Besides, the H6 alone has almost the same power as the EJ20 turbo, and has a heckuva lot more potential, so don't knock it till you've tried it! :D

Instead of the L or the RS get the nameless '2wd Impreza Coupe' like I did. Everywhere I've looked there is no letter designation at all for my car. I'm guessing since it's FWD, a tranny swap would be needed to accomodate an engine swap. Anyway, I think it'd be more fun to buy a lowly L and build it up. Make a sleeper and blow away some unsuspecting RS owners.

not to offend anyone but the L is just an ugly car, the hood,wing, rest of the cosmetic pieces make it look sooo much better

Go w/the '94 ;)

Scoobyslack1 I just pm'd you about your setup:)

id say get the L too

Just to let you know those of you who were wondering about the stroker kits. There are a few out there. I don't know of the ones in Japan, but I do now Paeco in Alabama has them. I believe they were like $1,200 - $1,600. What they do is the crankshaft is wider so that it makes the piston go up and down farther and the cylinders are bored, with bigger pistons. The con rod may have to change. So you could take your 1.8L and go from 7.3 to 1; to 11 to 1.

the H6 is 0.8" longer, and about 100lb heavier. all the only changes subaru made to accomodate the engine were a larger anti-roll bar up front, and a thicker crossmember.

having said that...

how much trouble WOULD it be to do an engine swap in a '94 fwd 1.8L?

i was pondering dropping a 2.5L in, but i'm guessing i'd need the whole transmission/drivetrain as well, right?

if i could get away with doing a straight swap and keep the car fwd...i'd do it. i'm not that worried about not being able to launch like an awd car...just a little more power would be nice. but otherwise...i might as well just go and buy a new car. is it possible to swap in a 2.2 or 2.5 without having to replace the whole drivetrain?

(adam)

Originally posted by RS25.com
Um Iowannaski, you presume to know my budget and/or how much money I have to spend on my hobbies?

No, I was observing that $400/month won't pay for $15,000 worth of mods in 1 year.

Originally posted by RS25.com
I've got a 2000 RS, which I love, but the car payments are killing me. Can we say $500/month? ...I figure the car payment will be around $100 - $150 for a $6000 car ...so that leaves me a few extra bills each month to buy stuff. I figure in a year I will be all done and will have a kick ass car. :)

James
www.RS25.com

Get the 2.5. Your old L will always look fairly bad with its nonmatching rear windows and door handles and an ugly Maaco paint over of whatever ugly color it is now. You know how it looks when someone mods up some four generation old Civic. It's embarassing. Even if it's fast it's not going to impress anyone.

Originally posted by mr_disco
Get the 2.5. Your old L will always look fairly bad with its nonmatching rear windows and door handles and an ugly Maaco paint over of whatever ugly color it is now. You know how it looks when someone mods up some four generation old Civic. It's embarassing. Even if it's fast it's not going to impress anyone.

what's with the backlash against the looks of the L?

if someone tacked a hood scoop and fog lights on a civic, you'd be busting on them...

IT'S THE SAME FREAKING CAR.

my windows and door handles match...the paint still looks new...so your point is...?

(adam)

Originally posted by mr_disco
Get the 2.5. Your old L will always look fairly bad with its nonmatching rear windows and door handles and an ugly Maaco paint over of whatever ugly color it is now. You know how it looks when someone mods up some four generation old Civic. It's embarassing. Even if it's fast it's not going to impress anyone.

I beg to differ. Gen 4 Hondas are all ugly. But the L and RS are identical bodies, except for hood, grill, and headlights, so if an L is ugly, an RS is ugly. And they're a couple hundred pounds lighter than an RS, which makes them not only more cost effective (get an L for 2-3 grand), but more ideal for the kind of conversion we're talking about. Plus, the other goodies, like no stock sunroof, so you can do cool stuff like put a roof scoop on your car.

Later.

"Don't hate me because my Impreza's beautiful."

There are a lot of ways the 2.5 RS is going to look better than a 94 L. Being newer, the paint will be in much better shape. (He's already said the 94 L paint looks ugly, and will require a repaint). The lights on an RS will be halogen and will look better than the old smoked glass. In addition he'll have:

a better looking front bumper/foglights
better grill
spoiler
rims
better looking/feeling seats
a leather steering wheel and shifter
white faced gauges
hood scoop
side skirts
power(!) sunroof
better badges on the trunk

These are all merely cosmetic (no mention of ABS, cruise, etc). You can replace these pieces piecemeal but you end up with spoiler, hood, bumpers and so, on the wrong color. No offense to old L owners, but an RS is better looking than an old '94 L and it would take several thousands of dollars to make them look the same, and the L will still be noticeably an L.

Originally posted by mr_disco
There are a lot of ways the 2.5 RS is going to look better than a 94 L. Being newer, the paint will be in much better shape. The lights on an RS will be halogen and will look better than the old smoked glass. In addition he'll have:

a better looking front bumper/foglights
better grill
spoiler
rims
better looking/feeling seats
a leather steering wheel and shifter
white faced gauges
hood scoop
side skirts
power(!) sunroof
better badges on the trunk

These are all merely cosmetic (no mention of ABS, cruise, etc). You can replace these pieces piecemeal but you end up with spoiler, hood, bumpers and so, on the wrong color. No offense to old L owners, but an RS is better looking than an old '94 L and it would take several thousands of dollars to make them look the same, and the L will still be noticeably an L.

Pricier? I just see NO point spending $15-18,000 on an RS, when you're still going to have to spend an additional $4-8,000 to turbocharge it properly (based on Rallispec turbocharging prices), and you still probably won't have the power of a j-spec WRX or STi, which you can put into a LIGHTER weight L. And you still have to deal w/upgrading the RS's suspension, window tinting, sound system :D just like you would w/an L. The only thing that you listed that can't be easily remedied is the white guages. Also, L brakes definitely need upgrading, whereas the RS brakes are good enough to get by. No matter what, w/ the L, you'll have to replace hood, grille, and headlights to do the upgrade, and you'll have to add a hood scoop.

In fact, I've already made all the upgrades you list to my '95 WRX hiding under an L body, except for the guages and steering wheel, plus I went w/a roof scoop instead of sunroof, STi red/grey suede seats, '01 UK spec WRX rims/tires, STi ver 5 replica bumper, sideskirts, and grill. All of these upgrades together cost me $3,135 (including painting the parts cardinal red at the local dealership). It's pretty tough to beat that (of course I found a few killer deals on some of that stuff ;)

Maybe the best advantage to the RS is the paint job, although people always say how flashy my L/WRX looks (it was garage kept during it's 7 year life as a lowly L, and it's paint still looks like new). Cardinal red is probably one of the best of the otherwise wierd L colors. But when you put 'em in the scales, I still see waaaaaaay more advantages to hooking up an L than an RS, and it'll be a lot less expensive, and prolly end up w/more of a custom touch. What more couldja want? ;)

Later.

I would have gotten an RS if I had the money :p

But ya, I have to do alot to make it look good, but not as much as you think... (my not-gonna-happen-without-a-mericle-plan) $50 for stock RS sideskirts, $70 for syms grill, $150 for RS headlights, $300 for aluminum hood, $100 for Prodrive combo-hoodscoop, $50 roof vent, $100 roof scoop, and then a $1000 paint job of course (WRX rally blue of course! Maybe that nice gray/silver Pinoy had) and i'd have a very unique car! :D

Thats just exterior stuff though... For my 1.8l L, I'd also get: WRX rims w/ RE730's, WRX front brakes, RS seats front+back (cheapest interior upgrade), a rally suspension OR Ver5 suspension, Whiteline sway bar kit, Lightweight clutch, lightweight flywheel, lightweight drive-shaft, Lightweight pulleys (not UD), DIY Intake, custom exhaust (only option is to get a custom job, that I know of...), and i'd be good to go... Not much power though, but you can get an XT6 or used WRX turbo and stick it in and custom job it.

All that, and your still talking just around $10k including the car.

For the money you would spend on an RS, you could modify an L to perform as well (or better?) and look just as good too and probably still have money left over. If you bought an RS, it would be another bone stock RS running around, while if you bought an L, you could modify and personalize it, while making it unique. It just seems more fun buying a lesser model and making it outperform higher models.

make no mistake. i'd love to have an RS.

but i just got done paying an arm and a leg for a fast/nice car. i'm over it. my VW was eating me out of house and home to the tune of $900/mo. so i sold it, and wrote a check for my L, and ended up with $$$ in the bank. i don't owe a cent on it. it looks brand new. the insurance is crazy cheap.

let's see...what i've spent on my car thus far since i bought it in may...

car = $3000
'99 RS rims = $450
(lucked out...my baby bought me tires for my b-day)
intake = $200
pulley set = $250

grand total = $3900

coming soon:

brullen catback = ~$500
cusco or STi strut tower & sway bars = ~$500 altogether
still under $5000 total.

after that, i might spring for a prodrive P1 or WR suspension package down the road ($800-1300), so i'm still only looking at $5700-6200. yes, i'm still down 35-40hp, maybe more, but oh well...i don't drag race. an RS would still be slow compared to what i used to drive...so comparing apples and apples is pointless here. :D

let's not let this turn into a "shampoo vs. conditioner" argument, mmmmmkay?? :lol:

*adam*

How much lighter is the L? What exactly makes it lighter besides sunroof and spoiler? Airbags? Side impact beams?

Mike

it's a little lighter...unless you're like me with the fwd model...then it's a LOT lighter.

2400lb with me in it and almost a full tank of gas...and that's with full power accessories + a power sunroof...my car still has side impact beams, and dual airbags as well. i think all imprezas do (?)

most civics weigh in at around 2700lb.
an RS is just under 3000.

alan (aigburth) has a 1.8L awd coupe that is completely stock, save an intake, and turns faster laps at the auto-x than RS's and WRX's. soooooooo...

The 2001 RS coupe w/ manual weighs in at 2795 lbs. while the FWD coupe weighs in at 2400 lbs. without you in it. I'm guessing with you in it and a full tank of gas, that's adding an extra 200-250 lbs maybe? Add that to an RS and you're definitely over 3000 lbs.
For the MY 2000, the manual Civics range in weight from mid 2300's to 2612 for the Si.
So with the FWD Impreza, you're on par with most Civics, 200 lbs lighter than an Si and about 400 lbs lighter than an RS. I'll take a lighter, less powerful car over a heavier, more powerful car anyday. I mean, there's a ton of ways to get more power out of a car but how easy is it to shed a few hundred pounds off a car?

everyone makes all the mods seem so easy, dropping in an engine and tranny isn't something the normal person could do, if there was a shop around here that would drop a jspec tranny and engine into an L and the cost would still be less than an RS i would deffinately do that

Annointed: let's see some pics!

EnterTheDragon: Prior to closing shop, Rallispec did a UK turbo conversion for about 10K. Add to price of a brighton, 12K. Plus wheels and tires and misc. stuff, 13K. Less than an RS and a whole lot faster.

closed shop then that's not really an option

It's an example. You can always find your own engine and have another shop do it. There are other shops that will source engines for you.

Originally posted by DoinkMobb
The 2001 RS coupe w/ manual weighs in at 2795 lbs. while the FWD coupe weighs in at 2400 lbs. without you in it. I'm guessing with you in it and a full tank of gas, that's adding an extra 200-250 lbs maybe? Add that to an RS and you're definitely over 3000 lbs.
For the MY 2000, the manual Civics range in weight from mid 2300's to 2612 for the Si.
So with the FWD Impreza, you're on par with most Civics, 200 lbs lighter than an Si and about 400 lbs lighter than an RS. I'll take a lighter, less powerful car over a heavier, more powerful car anyday. I mean, there's a ton of ways to get more power out of a car but how easy is it to shed a few hundred pounds off a car?

i stand corrected...

i got my figures from a weigh station i drove through on a road trip last weekend ("heheheheheheheheh...let's see what happens if we drive through there, heheheheheheh...")...it was strictly for scientific purposes only. :D so maybe someone in the car was lying about their weight. :lol: i checked my title last night, and it's listed at 2400lb.

don't forget that the WRX and new RS's are a bit heavier due to all the stiffer chassis...the WRX is a shade over 3000.

yeah, an Si weighs 2600lb, but that's an Si...from the factory...most civics i see around here are 4 door EX mommy-gave-this-to-me hand me downs, with 18-20" rims, plenty of subz in da trunk, an extra 100lb of tacked on bodywork, etc. etc. with the 2 extra doors, all the extra junk an automatic adds, and probably more sound insulation than an Si, 2700lb wasn't an unreasonable stock figure...at least i thought. :) now add all the rimz, subz, etc., plus a couple of big booty girls in da back, and you're WELL over the 3000 mark... :lol:

anyway...i forgot where i was going with this...neeeeeeed caffiene...

------->adam.

Originally posted by Scoobyslack1


Actually my car is the Brighton Ed., even lighter than an L. Stock weight is 2660lbs.
If you can find an EJ22T motor it's a good strong block to start a built up with. They will not be as much as an EJ20 and easier to put into a US spec car. Then you could do it in stages; motor first, then IC, better heads and bigger turbo. The initial change is sooo great over the 1.8L, you'll love it.

my car is here on DLC's web page (http://www.xmission.com/~dac/centric/members/alan.htm)



Did you switch wiring harness?