OK, my friend is buying a car and I'm pushing her to get a used (99 and up) legacy GT. Well it seems her father (Dumb ass!!) wants her to get a SUV because "they are safer". So, being that the legacy has gotten the top ratings in safty, I thought I could use that fact to help her with her arguing with her father (wow, did that make sense? :) )
neways, heres what I hve so far.
she has $13k to spend
SUVs:
1.Use LOTS of gas
2. bad for enviorment (shes into that stuff)
3. are normaly not as reliable as a subaru
4. awd system isn't as good as subarus
5. are expensive
6. roll over
7. I hate them :D
8. In accident VS a solid object (not another car, but something like a wall or something) your in more danger because of the high mass of the suv. a 3000lb car running into a wall is a lot easier on a person as a 7000lb truck.
9. bigger isn't always safer.
Legacy:
1. is hot and on fire
2. reliable..very reliable
3. comes with all options fairly cheap
4. AWD all the time.
5. lower center of gravity = less chance of a roll over
6. highest safty ratings in its class
7 I like it :D
9. its not a pos
give me some more facts or statistics about suvs

ummm...you're a piece of trash? :D

what are the SUV's in question? the 13k limit should help your case considering most SUV's at that price are going to suck even more than the average SUV.

How about the fact that SUVs don't accelerate/decelerate as fast. Ususally, the safest car is the one that can prevent getting into an accident in the first place.

at $13K for a used suv, definitely push the subie reliability factor. plus, as you've said it's hot and on fire :D

It always bugs the heck out of me when people assume SUV's are safer. Wrong! A select few, like the ML320, are as safe as cars.
The Nissans are on a unibody and have similar safey features like cars (steel door beams, crumple zones, etc.). But they also have that antiquated part time 4WD that is useless on dry/wet pavement.
Even if they are car-based any SUV, cute-ute, etc. will have a higher center of gravity and be way more likely to roll-over.

A friend of a friend bought a Passport a few years ago. He was driving back from Canada a little tired. He veered off the road and over-corrected and rolled it. His wife, his mother-in-law and his nanny all died. His newborn baby barely made it.

Do you know what he has in mind? That way, we can customize our repsonses better.

Dennis

holly shi+ that one statment you just made should be good enough!
Sorry to hear about that.
Shes not sure whats shes looking at, but her dumb ass father (get read to laugh) thinks she should buy another (she has one now that is a total POS) Jeep.
Last I heard, Jeep is having a recal due to it shifting into reverse by itself while driving. I think thats pretty safe :rolleyes:
I just need some general statistics about suvs being POS.
I don't want another suv on the road (she kinda cant drive well either..we don't need her driving a fargen 6,000lb truck around.)
keith
Ohh and I think Jgaurd said that he had some free WRX decals. Send him a PM about them..I got mine last week..nice looking :D

i dont usually talk about it... as it still makes me very, very sad...
but... the GT is very , very safe!! I know....

You tell this guy to email me... i'll give him a million reasons to buy the GT...
#1 is safety...
http://www.subiegal.com/images/My%20Car/crash.jpg

http://www.subiegal.com/images/My%20Car/crash5.jpg

i would not have wanted to be in an SUV, Honda, Toyota or just about anything else in this type of crash... i walked away with a sore chest, and that's it!! and SUV would have gone end over end... i can guarantee it...

anyway... the GT is very drivable, gets great gas mileage, easy to maintain, work on, easy to park, and looks 150% better than any friggin SUV out there....

statistics? use a search engine and start piling them up. SUV's are not as safe as people think... "bigger" is not always better :D

j.
www.subiegal.com

SUV's also scored the poorest in low speed crash tests in regards to dollar amounts of damage. If you hit a stationary object at the whopping speed of 5mph be prepared to pay AT LEAST $1000 to repair the damage.

http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/09/13/suv.crash.tests.01/

here's another test taken in 98':

http://www.cnn.com/US/9807/21/suv.report/

Lookee who comes out on top on the 2nd link...a Subaru! :D

my friend is buying a car and I'm pushing her

some people can't read. :p :D

1) On slippery surfaces the front wheels of a 4x4 can lock up due to the power going to the rears and the amount of brake effort required to counter the engine, causing a loss of steering ability.

2) Chicks look cuter in Subarus than sport utes.

3) She can join the club. :D

4) You'll be able to fix her car.

5) maintenance is cheaper.

6) insurance is cheaper.

7) easier to park

subiegal: can you tell me the story or do you have a link to the story behind your crash. I know you got in it but I don't know the story behind it.
-Neal

Originally posted by horatio102

some people can't read. :p :D


and some people smoke crack...
what are you talking about?:rolleyes:

seems her father *the* (Dumb ass!!)

that's who i was referring to...

anyway... pics of the big crash are on my site... under the 2.5 GT page... if you want the whole story... email me and i'll retell the tale... bit of overconfidence and lack of fear for the fog :(

anyway... tell ya gal pal NOT to get a SUV... she'll regret it.

j.
www.subiegal.com

Well, I did some research for you Keith, and I wasn't able to come up with anything useful for you. All the statistics say that you are better off in an SUV - because you're less likely to be killed by someone in an SUV. It's disturbing, but true.

for what it's worth,

I currently have a legacy rental as my WRX got the dreaded PE1443. I had to drive from Santa Cruz down to San louis obisbo (half way between San Francisco and LA). round trip was about 350miles which I did on a single tank of gas, aproximately 13 gallons.

The ride was good, I don't like the seats at all. But overall, the legacy is a great car.

Originally posted by Iowannaski


and some people smoke crack...
what are you talking about?:rolleyes:

I'm talking about the people who are sending stuff to help Keith's female friend argue with her father, and they're saying stuff like
Do you know what he has in mind? or You tell this guy to email me... i'll give him a million reasons

The plea was for information to be given to the female friend, so she could argue. Not for information so Keith could argue directly with the father. :p

Yes, some people do smoke crack.

But if Keith wants to do battle with the father or have the father do battle with complete strangers, that's all good.

A legacy wagon will have more cargo space than most SUVs. Any legacy model will have more comfort space than most SUVs in her price range.

I have had 6'4" 300lbs rear seat passengers who have been quite comfortable and remarked upon the leg room.

SUVs just don't make very much sense these days. Why does she need an offroad vehicle for 100% onroad driving? She will be paying a premium for outdated technology and safety standards, not to mention lousy fuel economy!

http://www.remarcable.net/misc/legacy_outback/

In the gallery section I have a copy of Pat Olsen's very bad day where he flipped his 99 Legacy GT on the racetrack. Unfortunatly I can't find the 'aftermath' pictures, but the car protected the driver very well, as is the case in most of the subie wrecks I've seen.

Maybe he'll chime in with some pictures.

bah Keith you hipocrit! I knew you were jealous of my GT every time you dissed on it! :lol: buhahaha :D But seriously, yeah all the reasons you said are true. Okie i'll give another example: Last winter this guy and I were driving on the LIE during the snowstorm. Now the plows had passed by prolly 30 minutes prior to us. But this guy in a Nissan Pathfinder- while driving straight spun out and almost too out 2 other cars. Me on the otherhand kept crusin along at a nice 50mph :D Just gotta make sure she gets rid of those <b>POS</b> RE92's ;)

-chrisC

Recently, while in the waiting room of a doctor's office, I read an article in Scientific American (I *think*) that addressed the issue of SUV safety. I wish I knew where to get a copy for you, it was very good and I don't remember all of the details. Here is what I do remember:
Compared to cars, "SUV's" exhibit:
-Significant increase of rollover including evasive maneuvers, hitting guard rails and colliding with other vehicles/objects. Obviously this is due to the increased center of gravity. It compared the stability of a Ford Taurus to a Ford Explorer and said that for the Exploder to have the same stability it would need a wheel base that took up over two standard freeway lanes (or something ridiculous!)
-Significant increase in occupant fatalities in the case of a rollover. This is due to the fact that the vehicles are taller and therefore when they roll over there is less structural rigidity and more inertia which tends to crush the tops of the trucks and cause fatal head and neck injuries.
-Significant stopping distance due to increased weight. Stability in emergency stops is decreased due to high center of gravity. However, a defensive driver can mitigate this by using the higher seating postion to look farther down the roadway and anticipate sooner when the brakes will need to be applied.

Additionally the article stated that because the driver sits higher in an SUV than a car, the sensation of speed is not as great. Again the comparison between the Taurus and the Explorer - doing 60 in an Exploder "feels" the same as doing 35 in the Taurus. If you've ever gone 30 mph in a go-kart that's half an inch off the ground you should know exactly what the article was talking about.
SUV's are *generally* built on truck chasis (some of the newer ones like the Pathfinder are getting away from this). These type of chasis have two huge beams of steel running underneath them. In the case where an SUV strikes a vehicle broadside these beams act as battering rams that carry the trucks momentum through the other vehicle. These beams have a tendancy to poke right throught the skin of a car or truck and proceed directly into occupants causing serious injury or death.

Good luck convincing your gal's dad. It's hard when people are set in there thinking and it's no good having your lady's dad mad at you!

Here's a link which is definitely biased but may contain some useful facts, particularly useful to you may be the comment about shorter wheelbase (ie under 13K) trucks have a higher incidence of rollover:
http://www.suv.org/safety.html

I dont have any facts for you but I think personal experience and opinion would do you just as well. I have a Jeep and Ive seen how a head on or back end collision gives them there indestrutable reputation but I'd much rather have a sedan, subaru or not.
Body roll is pathetic and if you get hit on the side kiss your ass goodbye (maybe your cars as well). I drive confident but there are some serious limitations that SUV drivers dont heed and I dont think your friend would be any different, no offense. One example that I have personally had to deal with manuverability.

To make a long story short on a semi-sharp turn that a Subaru wouldve eaten I started to lose grip (going only 40) and almost went head on into an Explorer. Had the pavement been wet I wouldnt be posting right now and thats a fact. My sisters '92 Toyota Camry is a freaking tank (oh the wrecks shes gotten into and came out just as good as Subie Gal, latest was a tractor trailer that plowed her and the car is still here, so is my sister) so I wont say anything too bad about them. I wouldnt want to be in a Civic in the same situation though.:eek:

Get the scoob or any reliable sedan for that matter.

THANKS SO MUCH!!
Keep the info coming, this is really gonna help when i drop a mini book on her lap about how much SUVs sucK!! :)
btw, I'm not helpin her fix her car...she don't put out:)
ehhe
Thanks again guys (and jamie:) )
keith

Well, the Forrester would be OK I guess, but maybe out of the price range? Anyway, it does not seem to be quite as good as the Legacy when crunched...;)

My cousin flipped a 4 Runner on an expressway doing a sharp brake and swerve coz a guy cut in on him at "only" 40mph - it rolled twice, put all 5 of them in hospital (luckily no one with permamnent damage). It was miraculous that they did not all die as the roof was sitting on the driver's seat head rest.:eek: :eek:

I guess a simple example would be all the fuss about Explorers!

Really tall tyres, high CG, blowouts = major pain for everyone.:(

Low CG, good AWD, etc., etc. - its all been said before.

Good luck.:D

Get him to drive a Legacy, that should be feeling enough. Grr, makes me so angry those SUV owners...

http://www.toad.net/~rrubel/comparisons.html

Go there and look around, I traded in a 96 Jeep XJ Sport for our 97 Legacy Outback Limited and never looked back.

Peaty

Everyone has good points, but I think you all missed one very important thing - if she is older than 18, she can buy whatever car she wants.

maybe combine both a look at a Legacy GT wagon:)

Subaru's suv, the Forester, also comes in a special "sport" edition that features a lower center of gravity and better handling. I believe it is called an "Impreza RS." Have her look into it:D