Okay. Block cleaned and tapped, bolts cleaned, tapped, and lubed.

Crank mains are dead on 2.362". Stock crank polished and checked for straightness by my guy.

Brand new Subaru bearings. Block looked great @ teardown, bearings looked great, but I'm not in the habit of reusing bearings.

The main bearing clearances on #3 and #4 are .0005" off. It's on the loose side rather than tight, so I'm tempted to go with it. I'd like some of our esteemed engine assemblers to chime in ;)

There's no swapping bearings on those two journals.

Unless I hear otherwise, I'm going with it.

S.

Steve,

Considering the OE specs show:

Crank journal diameter - 2.3619 — 2.3625

I don't see why you couldn't do that. I know, this isn't your daily drive, grocery getter etc but that's really close. If it really has you thinking, just take it back to your guy and have him get them all where you want.

My guy (lol) checked the journals for me personally (not one of his workers) and assured me that it was a go. When my friend and I assembled the SB this past Saturday we didn't have a fancy micrometer so when used red Plastigauge. They were all extremly close and on the tight side.

On your bearings, you've gone this far, why skimp. While you're at it, get them dry film coated.

My .02

Possible to take the bearings back to Subaru, say they are out of spec and get a new set in hopes they are correct?

What I'm driving at is.....while the clearances are in spec, I'd like to know:

-Why there is more clearance on #3 and #4...the crank rotates freely, and the journals are spot on. Have folks seen this kind of inconsistency in the bearings, or is there some kind of trick to torquing the block? :lol:

It's not a deal-breaker, but I thought I'd ask.

Thanks for the input, folks.

S.

FWIW, when we put my motor back together, we used plasticgauge (sp??) to measure the clearances. All of the clearances were right in spec.

It doesnt really matter what your crank measures at unless its been changed. The only way you can get a true idea of how the crank fits is to dry assemble it and plastigauge all the journals. Torque up the crank cases and then pull the whole lot apart and see what clearances you have. You should also do the same thing with your con rod big ends.
To say your crank measures 2.362" really doesnt mean much.
List what your clearances all measure at on all 5 main journals and check end thrust with feeler gauge.

It doesnt really matter what your crank measures at unless its been changed. The only way you can get a true idea of how the crank fits is to dry assemble it and plastigauge all the journals. Torque up the crank cases and then pull the whole lot apart and see what clearances you have. You should also do the same thing with your con rod big ends.
To say your crank measures 2.362" really doesnt mean much.
List what your clearances all measure at on all 5 main journals and check end thrust with feeler gauge.

Thanks for the hot tip. :lol:

Nevermind, for christ sakes.

I said CLEARANCE, not DIMENSION was off .0005"


S.

I just went through almost the same thing with my 2.5L build. As I remember it, main was spot on, #2 and #3 were 0.0005 off-loose and #4 was tight. Polished crank to bring #4 back into spec and left the others loose.

I tried multiple packs of bearings, I was surprised how close to spec they all were.

Your only other option is to purchase what they call an "undersize" bearing set and grind the crank if you want them to be perfect. Don't bother, you are so close to spec.

Are you doing the oil pump modification to raise the oil pressure? It should help with the large spec clearance

I just went through almost the same thing with my 2.5L build. As I remember it, main was spot on, #2 and #3 were 0.0005 off-loose and #4 was tight. Polished crank to bring #4 back into spec and left the others loose.


THAT's what I wanted to hear, thank you. :) It seemed okay to me, but I'm not a EJ guru.


Are you doing the oil pump modification to raise the oil pressure? It should help with the large spec clearance


I'm not a fan of that mod. If I had a technical resource I trusted tell me it's a good thing, I'd consider it. But IMO, increasing the oil clearance by .0005" throughout the engine, running a vacuum pump, using a new oil pump, and having no intention of going beyond 73-7500 rpms should suffice. AFAIK, the EJ engines have a buttload of pressure to begin with....I'd not increase it without adding volume, and that brings on a new set of issues. I've tackled enough issues....I want to finish this project. :lol:

Thanks for the help!

S.

I was told about the mod by another engine builder (thanks) and them went off and checked it out myself.

The pressure release on the STI oil pump already has one shim in it. You can see this in the STI built manuals. (oil pump - 15010AA234)

Now look at the - 15010AA232 - this is the pump from the 2.2L turbo block, it has 2 shims installed by default. Same oil pump, springs everything just it has an extra shim.

Of course Subaru may have reduced the shim count for a reason, I don't know but as I see it an extra shim can't hurt.... The other engine builder says that 3 shims total is the limit and you would not want to do more than that.

Projects are never finished. My car, stock -> Stage 4 -> Built 2L with GT30R and now to built 2.5L.... I have a half roll cage and a whole stack of other stuff to install. then what's going to break? I think my R160 rear diff.... Ha

Now look at the - 15010AA232 - this is the pump from the 2.2L turbo block, it has 2 shims installed by default. Same oil pump, springs everything just it has an extra shim.

Interesting. Wonder if the percieved need for pressure was related to the piston squirters, or the bottom end?

Go check out my package; it shows as "delivered" ;)

Steve

So what exactly do these shims look like? I've had 4 oil pumps in my hands over the past year. One from the 2.0L WRX (US), and the other three all said to be from a USDM STI. The first STI pump I got looked identical to the WRX pump. I never removed the pressure relief valves on either of those two. Both of those had a grey finish on the back plate. The other two, also said to be STI pumps had silver backplates. I've had both of these apart and there are no shims of any sort to be found. They all look identical from the outside except one or two had different castings marks.

Anyway, where does the shim go? Up in the piston and then you slide the spring in place? Also, are these "shims" just SS washers of the same inside diameter?

TIA

Todd

P.S. Sorry for the thread jack

Todd
P.S. Sorry for the thread jack

Are you kidding me? :lol: As long as we learn something, I could care less.

I don't have a pump in front of me, but I imagine one would have to remove the pressure relief valve to add/remove shims. One domestics, the PR valve is held in by a roll pin.

S.

Thanks, Steve ;)

They are just washers which go into the piston. Seems they just change the pre-load of the spring. I think they are $0.12 each from the Suby parts dealer. Maybe the cheapest part I have every purchased.

I have pictures but they are on my external drive. I'll crop a couple and post when I remember

Thanks, man. You got a part number or should I just go and get SS washers from the hardware store? Do they have a similar thickness as any other washer of the same diameter?

Washers from Subaru - 031106000 They are cheap, buy them from Subaru. You will need to buy 2 to make a total of 3 in the pump. You could also just add an extra one to match the 2.2L turbo motor.

Picture of the pressure relief valve
http://www.mickandsarah.com/wrx/misc/oil-pump-mod-0001.jpg

Picture of the internal piston, note existing washer and then the 2 additionals that I was about to install
http://www.mickandsarah.com/wrx/misc/oil-pump-mod-0002.jpg

nice pics mick.

For what it's worth the Subaru bearings were more consistent than the Clevite ones that are in with my rods. Like you said, you can't change the clearance much without major work, so as long as they were in spec, I went with it on the mains.

The con-rod journals have all been polished out out limit of recommended spec.

The oil pump mod looks like a good one as long as pressure is not insanely high.

FWIW... a notable, trusted assembler of EJ engines on this very forum stated that the only time he uses an additional shim in the pump is for assys utilizing piston squirters, i.e., EJ22T.

Thanks for the pics, Mick.

S.

The oil pump mod looks like a good one as long as pressure is not insanely high.

IMO anything over 80 psi is insanely high, and I've been told that the stock pressure sometimes exceeds that figure. :eek:

I'm not going to "fix" this.
I'm not going to "fix" this.
I'm not going to "fix" this.
I'm not going to "fix" this.

Get the project done.
Get the project done.
Get the project done.
Get the project done.

:lol:

S.

Mick comes through with pics and a part #, NICE! Everybody watchout, this is going to be the new Subaru thing to do ;) Seriously, though, I am adding at least two washers to mine. I've got an Oil Pressure gauge now so I can see what's going on :) There's a point where the pressure can be too high (I don't know what that is though). I'm sure on a crank with the addition of extra oil holes it would work great. However, if you've got a std EJ257 crank then??? I'll try two to start and see what my gauge reads.

IMO anything over 80 psi is insanely high, and I've been told that the stock pressure sometimes exceeds that figure. :eek:

I'm not going to "fix" this.
I'm not going to "fix" this.
I'm not going to "fix" this.
I'm not going to "fix" this.

Get the project done.
Get the project done.
Get the project done.
Get the project done.

:lol:

S.

I could not agree more. You could work on nearly every aspect of the engine while you are in there. I chose some goals and I've stuck to them pretty much. Adding cams in late in the game was a matter of being persuaded that even though the bang for buck factor for cams is low, I'd reap more becuase I was already going to up the revs. We'll see in the end if cams + 8K RPM actually yields more (I'm secretly looking for 50 hp).

In the end I'm still relying heavily on Subaru to have overbuilt this engine. Time will only tell if not just I'm right, but all of us. While the EJ257 is very similar to EJ's of past, there are lots of little differences--those can make of break you.

I agree, get the project done. A word of warning about the oil pump mod. Remember that accessing the pressure relief valve after the build is complete is very hard to do. It's not like you can remove washers after they have been installed.

This is the first time I have done this mod so other than knowing what to do, postinig pictures of what I did, I do not know the *real* effects of this mod. I took advice, did reseach, decided that it's a 2 minute mod while the pump is on the desk and did it.

I'm dieing to post some more pictures of my 2.5L build, it's pretty sweet but I think I will wait until it's tuned so I can post some results at the same time.

Mick,
I saw a pic or your block on the Vendor Announcements forum for the PDX Tuning Open House. Looks like we did the same pistion top coating. I was thriled to see the H6 build coming along. That will be quite a motor.

That block and heads are in the car now :)

Adding cams in late in the game was a matter of being persuaded that even though the bang for buck factor for cams is low, I'd reap more becuase I was already going to up the revs.

bboy, so your stock cams will be available? PM if so.

Bump for move to "built engine forum" :)

S.