10/12/05
Subaru has issued (snipped) the following statement:

Please be advised that oil filter, part number 15208AA09A, may potentially exhibit a small amount of seepage that is noticed during the installation process.

Although seepage is slight, we are requesting that all inventory of this part number be removed from stock immediately.....


No official recall of the product for the consumer at this time

BUT....
I have learned the following.

suspected bad batch numbers:
your oil filters should have a series number stamped on them
if you have one of the following series numbers,
then your filters are suspect of this seepage issue

F08
F09
F10


One would think you should be able to exchange them for a known "good" oil filter at any Subaru Dealership, but again, there is no known official recall at this time.

That's all I have for an update at this moment.....

Jamie Thomas
Jamie@chaplins.com
www.subarugenuineparts.com
https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/images/design/logo.gif (https://www.subarugenuineparts.com)
***************************
www.subiegal.com

i dont like the new filters at all, look exactly the same as the purolators, but more pricey. they should bring back the black ones.

More pricey? these new filters are mega cheap.
We sell them for less than $5.....


but yeah. the Black ones were highly popular.

Jamie Thomas
Jamie@chaplins.com
www.subarugenuineparts.com
https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/images/design/logo.gif (https://www.subarugenuineparts.com)
***************************
www.subiegal.com

So the filter in question are the brand new ones that were just released and the one you notified us about a little while back Jamie? I'm still using ones I purchased a couple years back before the black ones came out. After I use up my stash, I still have two of the black ones to use :)

exactly.

these are the brand new ones, the most recently released filters from Subaru.

these 09A took the place of AA100....

jamie

so you're saying i should find a dealership and trade the ones i just got?

Jamie is saying that Subaru has determined that there is a problem with certain lots of the new oil filter, that Subaru has informed the dealers and is recalling all such filters from the dealers ONLY at this time.

There is no recall being issued to the Customer at this time. With no official recall, it is a good bet that the dealer would not give you a new one for nothing.

good thing I still have a stock of black ones then

Call your dealership to determine if they will take it back cause mine said they will.

There is no recall being issued to the Customer at this time. With no official recall, it is a good bet that the dealer would not give you a new one for nothing.


word.

turns out i got AA060's, so i'll be alright for the time being.

wow thank's for the info jamie. i'll have to see what we're putting on at my dealer;)

word.

turns out i got AA060's, so i'll be alright for the time being.


AA060's are NOT RECOMMENDED for turbo models. per subaru.

they are for non-turbo's only....


Jamie

doh! well, guess the search continues...

uhoh... i think i put one of those on my cars last week... will have to check the batch i guess...

I changed oil and filter on my wife's '06 FXT last week and used the "new" 15208AA09A filter. She came home last night and complained of oil smell. So I went out today and looked under the car, oil everywhere! :eek: ! I put the car on my lift and the source appeared to be from the filter. After cleaning everything up I started the car and observed the filter. Within seconds oil was seeping out between the rolled lip and the outer circumference of the can. Piece of JUNK! :furious: ! Batch number F08R05E1. As I always fire up all cars after oil changes and observe the filter for any leaks, I know the filter did not leak initially. But the leak occured within 300 miles because that is what it has.

Fortunately a little oil goes a long ways, the oil was still way above the add mark, and I had a AA080 on the shelf for the STi, so the car is back on the road.

So hey vendors, I got three cars that need this filter, what do you have that works? I'll take this filter (and the others I bought with it) back to the dealer I got them from, but unless I see some sort of technical bulletin addressing it I do not want to trust another AA09A filter.

Judging from this thread others have had this problem. I'm lucky, :D , but Subaru had better address this.

Cheers!

i checked in my parts dept today, and was informed that they knew about the bad filters and had pulled them from the shelf. they are still selling 09A's, updated i was told, and i changed the oil today with one. i'll check on it the next couple days and make sure everything is good. i hope the problem is fixed!

... I put the car on my lift...
Now *that* is a proper home garage! :banana:

09A's will be the oil filter for the turbo from now until????

there was simply a batch with a kink or "dink" which allowed for this seepage.

those #'s affected have been recalled.

the replacement filters will be fine.
subaru is all over this issue right now.

Jamie

SubieGal Home (http://www.subiegal.com)

AA060's are NOT RECOMMENDED for turbo models. per subaru.

they are for non-turbo's only....


Jamie


Yeah, but the stock unit is so freaking small! :(

I really can't see how the bigger AA060 is going to get that much hotting bering close to the exhaust. How long is the oil in the filter, a few seconds at most? Plus, it is white and not black.

I'm just telling you what SUBARU has stated.

AA060's - (white) = we are not allowed to sell them for non turbo models.

AA09A (white) = turbo model oil filter

Jamie

I'm just telling you what SUBARU has stated.

AA060's - (white) = we are not allowed to sell them for non turbo models.

AA09A (white) = turbo model oil filter

Jamie

Oh, I understand. I am just saying that I don't understand why.

Not sure why, but the stock filter on my Saabaru was black and very small.... I wonder if the tiny filter had something to due with my oil being rather dirty looking after 3,000 miles. Much more so than other cars I have owned.

Jamie,
the description of the oil filters you posted seems to match the 6 filters i received a few weeks ago.

any suggestions on what i should do w/ them now?

Yeah, but the stock unit is so freaking small! :( .

This is the only case where size doesn't matter. Ability to trap particulate matter has little to do with the size of the filter.

This is the only case where size doesn't matter. Ability to trap particulate matter has little to do with the size of the filter.

I would agree with that but the small filter is going to get clogged up before the larger one with everything else being equal.

I worry about going 7,500 miles on something that is so freaking small when I go to syn. In reality is it an issue, I don't know.... :(

^^yeah I don't think i have the stones to go 7500 though. I still change around 3500 with mobil 1.

Probably overkill but i loose about 1/2 quart until the next change anyway.

There are new filters?

Are dealers being required to notify owners who bought these defective filters or had them installed during an oil change? I would hope so, otherwise they might (should IMO) be liable for any resulting engine damage.

Just buy Pure One filters from Pep Boys and save yourself these troubles ;)

Are dealers being required to notify owners who bought these defective filters or had them installed during an oil change? I would hope so, otherwise they might (should IMO) be liable for any resulting engine damage.


no.
once again :)
this is NOT A CONSUMER recall (yet?)

there are no gushing leaks, only seepage
and not enough to cause you to fry your engine.

Jamie

Deja Vu. Didn't this argument take place when the AA060's were replaced by the AA080's?

Yeah, but the stock unit is so freaking small! :(

I really can't see how the bigger AA060 is going to get that much hotting bering close to the exhaust. How long is the oil in the filter, a few seconds at most? Plus, it is white and not black.


IIRC the AA060 were the original filters for the WRX. I went thru a case of those with no problems.

I have two with the batch number : F07R18E1

Think those are ok?

-Nigel

Thank you, Jamie.

I bought six stamped with FO8R11E1,installed one,week later I installed my pinks and swaybars.....yep they leak,time for a refund or exchange.

I have two with the batch number : F07R18E1

Think those are ok?

-Nigel

yes those ones are okay :)

F08, 09, 10 - - -according to Subaru
were the affected filters...


Jamie

I just looked and I put on an F08.

Here's my dumb question: How much oil should I add after swapping the filter? I've never changed a filter w/o changing the oil...

And thanks for the info, Jamie!

crap, found this too late....just came back from the dealer and checked my filter....its an F10. So, do I go back and ask for a different filter? Which one?

Jamie, you have a PM

thanks

Good thing you posted this! I just checked because I have the F08R05E1 filter. I've put about 1k miles and it is leaking. I'll have to get a new one from the dealer tomorrow. I hope these are only a bad batch of filters.

Thanks

dammit mines leaking. and the parts guy said it was the updated one.

i just used a mobil1 filter on my 06 seems to be good.....it came w/ black filter from factory instead of white

dammit mines leaking. and the parts guy said it was the updated one.


check the serial ## on the filter.

if it has F08, F09, F10... it is NOT the updated one

hell.. we only just GOT the updated ones last week.

Jamie

check the serial ## on the filter.

if it has F08, F09, F10... it is NOT the updated one

hell.. we only just GOT the updated ones last week.

Jamie


Whats the updated part # that we should be looking for?

The part number, once again: IS THE SAME & will not change:

15208AA09A


the SERIAL number is what you need to check.
this is on the filter itself.

if it starts with F08, F09 or F10

then the filter is under dealer recall.
and you should be able to get a replacement :)

Jamie

Two things I did note between the two different filters (100 vs. 09A).

The 100 (Black version) was definitely larger than the 09A (white version)
The 09A does not have a pressure relief valve in the center bore like the 100 and every other Subaru OEM filter that I've ever used (a lot since 1974)
I purchased my 09A filter about a month ago so I'll bet that it's seeping. I too do the start and check but noticed no drips, leaks or seeps. That said, I did have some oil smell after a 350 mile trip back from Phoenix two weeks ago that has since stopped. Probably collecting on the top of the undercover now that I'm not motivating at highway speeds. Will check tonight.

If it is seeping, I'll be taking it back to the dealer?

UM....

actually the black version is much smaller than the 09A

http://www.subiegal.com/images/misc/work/oil-filter-09A2.jpg

crap, found this too late....just came back from the dealer and checked my filter....its an F10. So, do I go back and ask for a different filter? Which one?

thanks

bump it

if it starts with F08, F09 or F10

then the filter is under dealer recall.
and you should be able to get a replacement

Is there someplace the specific serial numbers are documented? I bought two from my local dealer last weekend. They were aware of the problem with the filters and indicated that they pulled all the problem filters yet when I bought the filters they were F10 serial numbers. When I called back, they said that they were only selling the 'new' shipment from Subaru and they didn't know what serial numbers were effected. I'd like to get new filters but if I can't convince them the ones I have are bad, I don't think they're going to give me new ones!

The part number, once again: IS THE SAME & will not change:

15208AA09A


the SERIAL number is what you need to check.
this is on the filter itself.

if it starts with F08, F09 or F10

then the filter is under dealer recall.
and you should be able to get a replacement

Jamie
Subie Gal = SubaruGenuineParts = Subaru Dealership = races subarus ad uses subaru filters

I think you can trust Jamie to give you the right stuff. You apparently have the "bad" filters. I would take them back and check the serial #'s on the new filters you get before you take them.

Subie Gal = SubaruGenuineParts = Subaru Dealership = races subarus ad uses subaru filters

I think you can trust Jamie to give you the right stuff. You apparently have the "bad" filters. I would take them back and check the serial #'s on the new filters you get before you take them.

While *I* trust this information, my dealer may look at it and say, 'well, our supplier said all the filters in this box are good, so who am I going to believe?'

Just ask the dealer to put it in writing that they are good so you know who to turn to for travel time/cost reimbursement if they turn out to be bad.

Is there someplace the specific serial numbers are documented? I bought two from my local dealer last weekend. They were aware of the problem with the filters and indicated that they pulled all the problem filters yet when I bought the filters they were F10 serial numbers. When I called back, they said that they were only selling the 'new' shipment from Subaru and they didn't know what serial numbers were effected. I'd like to get new filters but if I can't convince them the ones I have are bad, I don't think they're going to give me new ones!

If they are unused, just return them...have your reciept?

Hey Jamie, I still have a bunch of the old ones...Part # 15208AA100. Are the new ones better, or should I just use these up?

Hey Jamie, I still have a bunch of the old ones...Part # 15208AA100. Are the new ones better, or should I just use these up?


if you don't want them i'll take them....:D


















they're still good.

just went to dealer today, doing oil this weekend.....

stamp on top of filter says f10r19e1

should i take this thing back or what?

^^^

Its been said like 403938495895 times that batch F10 is a bad batch.

^^^

Its been said like 403938495895 times that batch F10 is a bad batch.



argh.

the one time i decide to use an OEM oil filter, i get pwned.

^^^

Its been said like 403938495895 times that batch F10 is a bad batch.

well, not really.....as Jamie has not posted the serial numbers from the "new" shipment from subaru. Maybe the new shipment is F10 as well, just different numbers at the end....

food for thought.

Does nobody read this thread?

yes those ones are okay :)

F08, 09, 10 - - -according to Subaru
were the affected filters...


Jamie


check the serial ## on the filter.

if it has F08, F09, F10... it is NOT the updated one

hell.. we only just GOT the updated ones last week.

Jamie

UM....

actually the black version is much smaller than the 09A

http://www.subiegal.com/images/misc/work/oil-filter-09A2.jpg

When I put the two side by side, my white one (09a) was marginally taller (< 1/4") than the black one (100) and substantially narrower on the cross-section, looking down on the two filters as positioned in the pic above.

I think mine is leaking too... batch # starts with F07... I get out of my car and I can SMELL oil... this is BS... I'm pissed!

I like the black filters! If I knew they were going to do this I would have purchased 3 cases of them months ago... aRG!

-Nigel

Has anyone cut open a 'good' new one yet to compare?

I have an F09.. This thread should be a sticky! This is going back to the dealer next week.

i just got a purolater pureone. looks exactlye like the subaru one, except it has a better gasket design. i bet the gasket is the problem on the subarue ones. its really small

i just got a purolater pureone. looks exactlye like the subaru one, except it has a better gasket design. i bet the gasket is the problem on the subarue ones. its really small
From the descriptions above, it seems more like a problem in the metal shell; in any case, the PureOnes are nice filters, but do have a different bypass valve pressure setting than the OEM ones.

From the descriptions above, it seems more like a problem in the metal shell; in any case, the PureOnes are nice filters, but do have a different bypass valve pressure setting than the OEM ones.


do you have more info on the pressure setting, i am considering switching to pure one.

Does the different pressure setting really matter?

Does the different pressure setting really matter?

i highly doubt it. you are certainly not going to blow up your car using a non-oem oil filter.

i highly doubt it. you are certainly not going to blow up your car using a non-oem oil filter.


No, but over time you may develop an oil leak because the pressure will eventually blow out the front engine seals. Alot of the cars we see with front engine seals leaking have aftermarket filters on them. This has also been proven by Subaru thru research. Thats why if you ask someone about the older Subaru's they will say they always developed oil leaks.

No, but over time you may develop an oil leak because the pressure will eventually blow out the front engine seals. Alot of the cars we see with front engine seals leaking have aftermarket filters on them. This has also been proven by Subaru thru research. Thats why if you ask someone about the older Subaru's they will say they always developed oil leaks.


Is the pressure bypass REALLY that drastic? I mean, it's not like it's bypassing at all times. Cold starts and usually WOT runs when the pressure is building up quickly.

I just can't see a non-oem filter blowing up engines. Wouldn't crankcase ventilation (PCV, etc) have a part to play in this as well (seals).

And upon searching, I can find the PureOne bypass pressure. Can you provide me with the OEM bypass pressure?

Is the pressure bypass REALLY that drastic? I mean, it's not like it's bypassing at all times. Cold starts and usually WOT runs when the pressure is building up quickly.

I just can't see a non-oem filter blowing up engines. Wouldn't crankcase ventilation (PCV, etc) have a part to play in this as well (seals).

And upon searching, I can find the PureOne bypass pressure. Can you provide me with the OEM bypass pressure?


Ehh, were you listening to rexygirl? it happens over time. Which means the difference is not drastic, but enough to cause a problem. And she did not say its gonna cause your engine to blow...just not run as well for as long. I definitely don't mean to be rude, but it seems that what she said "went in one ear and out the other."

Ehh, were you listening to rexygirl? it happens over time. Which means the difference is not drastic, but enough to cause a problem. And she did not say its gonna cause your engine to blow...just not run as well for as long. I definitely don't mean to be rude, but it seems that what she said "went in one ear and out the other."

I'm not one to just listen to word of mouth. Show me the hard proof, and I'll accept it :-)

I know what the pressure bypass PSI is for the PureOne, what is it for the OEM filter, also made by purolator?

Thanks

I'm not one to just listen to word of mouth. Show me the hard proof, and I'll accept it :-)

I know what the pressure bypass PSI is for the PureOne, what is it for the OEM filter, also made by purolator?

Thanks


Fair enough. I have no idea what the pressure is on the oem...what is it on the PureOne? Perhaps someone knows what the OEM bypass PSI is...? Hmm, this just made me think, I wonder if the pressure is different 'tween the old black ones and the new white ones.

Rexygirl...would you happen to have a link where we could look at the research (on related info) Subaru did?

IIRC, oem bypass pressure is 23 psi.

i just got a purolater pureone. looks exactlye like the subaru one, except it has a better gasket design. i bet the gasket is the problem on the subarue ones. its really smallThe problem isn't the gasket, it's the way the filter case was clamped to the base, it leaks there.

Fair enough. I have no idea what the pressure is on the oem...what is it on the PureOne? Perhaps someone knows what the OEM bypass PSI is...? Hmm, this just made me think, I wonder if the pressure is different 'tween the old black ones and the new white ones.

Rexygirl...would you happen to have a link where we could look at the research (on related info) Subaru did?


According to Purolators site, the bypass pressure on the PureOne for the WRX is 14-18psi

I just stopped at the local Suby dealer near my work to pick up an oil filter, and the service rep had 3 cases in front of him while on the phone with Subaru trying to determine if it was the bad batch. They just found out about the filters. They didn't seem too thrilled when I told them I knew of this over 2 weeks ago (thanks to this thread).

Needless to say, I walked away empty handed since I didn't have all day to wait for them to sort the problem out. Hopefully I'll have a filter by this weekend; coming up on 75k miles.

[QUOTE=shemoves]Hmm, this just made me think, I wonder if the pressure is different 'tween the old black ones and the new white ones.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there was no discernable pressure relief valve (PRV) in the white 09A filter that I installed. Read: It was literally missing in action. The black 100 filter had a PRV sitting squarely in the center of the bore. So the pressure difference should be exactly whatever the 100 series is capable of delivering since the white one has no restriction

FWIW - There's three times that a filter relief valve should open:

When you start a cold motor. The oil is thick and cannot pass easily through the filter so you develop a high pressure differential. The PRV opens to prevent oil-starvation of the motor.
When the motor is fully warmed. At idle, normal oil pressure is about 15 to 20 psi, and the pressure differential across the filter is about 1 or 2 psi. As you take off, and if you wind up the motor toward redline, you quickly build oil pressure to the 70 to 80 psi range. During that full-throttle acceleration the pressure differntial across the filter will exceed the PRV's relief parameters, sending unfiltered oil to the motor until the pressure across the filter has time to equalize.
When a filter becomes clogged. The PRV's opening is the only way to keep the motor from becoming oil-starved if the filter becomes clogged.

well the first leaky come-back arrived at my dealer today, batch #F08, oil all over the undercover. we are having problems getting enough good filters too. this is a crappy problem it makes us look bad. people don't understand why the dealer "can't get an oil change right"

Jerry

FWIW - There's three times that a filter relief valve should open:

When you start a cold motor. The oil is thick and cannot pass easily through the filter so you develop a high pressure differential. The PRV opens to prevent oil-starvation of the motor.
When the motor is fully warmed. At idle, normal oil pressure is about 15 to 20 psi, and the pressure differential across the filter is about 1 or 2 psi. As you take off, and if you wind up the motor toward redline, you quickly build oil pressure to the 70 to 80 psi range. During that full-throttle acceleration the pressure differntial across the filter will exceed the PRV's relief parameters, sending unfiltered oil to the motor until the pressure across the filter has time to equalize.
When a filter becomes clogged. The PRV's opening is the only way to keep the motor from becoming oil-starved if the filter becomes clogged.


Perhaps my oil guage is innaccurate, but my oil pressure (when warm) really only seems to see two pressures (with very little movement)...low at idle and high under any throttle. As soon as I use any throttle, it jumps up and just kinda stays at the same level no matter what kind of load its under. It does measure in hkpa in thousands, so perhaps I just can't see the movement 'cause I've only got "0-8."

Fair enough. I have no idea what the pressure is on the oem...what is it on the PureOne? Perhaps someone knows what the OEM bypass PSI is...? Hmm, this just made me think, I wonder if the pressure is different 'tween the old black ones and the new white ones.

Rexygirl...would you happen to have a link where we could look at the research (on related info) Subaru did?


I suspect Rexygirl will be posting no such info. Basically..yeah. It looks identical to the OEM filter (the purolator, that is). You are fine using it. I see no bypass valve in the oem filter.....

Just FYI, I got a F10 batch from my dealer, Subaru of Dallas, who indicated it was part of the 'good' batch they received. I installed it yesterday and as a precaution I havn't installed the belly cover. I haven't noticed any seepage whatsoever, so perhaps not all F10 batch filters are effected? The dealer indicated that the filters he sold me were not part of the recall.

I'm not one to just listen to word of mouth. Show me the hard proof, and I'll accept it :-)

Thanks

Find as many people as you can that own a Subaru, doesn't matter year or model..(older ones are better). Ask them if they have ever had to replace their front engine seals. If so, ask them where they got their oil changes done the majority of times and what kind of filter was used. I would bet that 95% of the people with front engine seal problems have hardly ever used a Subaru filter.

As far as paper research, I will have to see if I can come across some.

Find as many people as you can that own a Subaru, doesn't matter year or model..(older ones are better). Ask them if they have ever had to replace their front engine seals. If so, ask them where they got their oil changes done the majority of times and what kind of filter was used. I would bet that 95% of the people with front engine seal problems have hardly ever used a Subaru filter.

As far as paper research, I will have to see if I can come across some.


All I am asking for is the bypass pressure for the OEM filter for the WRX. Should be fairly easy for someone in your position (I assume you work at a dealership or something) to find.

I unfortunately don't know many people with subarus. And even then, it'd still be word of mouth.

I understand the desire to have it "on paper," but if I hear enough people talk about the same thing, at different times, in different places, under different circumstances, I tend to lean toward it being true.

And although purolator may make Subarus filters, that does not mean they are the same as the ones they sell independently.

I understand the desire to have it "on paper," but if I hear enough people talk about the same thing, at different times, in different places, under different circumstances, I tend to lean toward it being true.

And although purolator may make Subarus filters, that does not mean they are the same as the ones they sell independently.

Yet, the exact reason for the need for it "on paper" is because I have heard plenty of people talking about how the new subaru filter is in fact made by purolater and surprisingly, looks exactly like it. Many, MANY manufacturers buy 3rd party products and rebadge them. Volvo does this..we can get a filter for our diesel engine for 50 from volvo or 30 from Wix....they are both made by Wix.

A lot of stupid people think those Turbonators work, but they really don't.....and they don't believe it until they see it in writing.

I'm really not trying to be a pain, honestly.

I'm really not trying to be a pain, honestly.

I don't think that. Just from experience, hearing it from the Subaru rep, that used to be a parts depot person for the main warehouse for Subaru, and other people that work for Subaru, it is known to be true. Sure, there are failures out there on the front engine seals for other reasons, but the majority of them have to due with the speed the oil flows thru the filter, thus, over time, blowing out the seals. Will it damage your engine? Only if you let it run low on oil, otherwise, you will just have an oil leak

Still trying to look for information on both subjects "on paper"

I don't think that. Just from experience, hearing it from the Subaru rep, that used to be a parts depot person for the main warehouse for Subaru, and other people that work for Subaru, it is known to be true. Sure, there are failures out there on the front engine seals for other reasons, but the majority of them have to due with the speed the oil flows thru the filter, thus, over time, blowing out the seals. Will it damage your engine? Only if you let it run low on oil, otherwise, you will just have an oil leak

Still trying to look for information on both subjects "on paper"

Rexy, it's really appreciated, and I thank you.

well, not really.....as Jamie has not posted the serial numbers from the "new" shipment from subaru. Maybe the new shipment is F10 as well, just different numbers at the end....

food for thought.

Okay, this is getting interesting...I had the same experience as Drews_WRX. Went to the local dealership (Downtown Subaru in Oakland) a few weeks ago to pick up a 100 if they had it. They told me they didn't have that one...only the 09A, and they were out of stock because they had just sent out all they had in stock to Subaru for a recall. Told me to come back in a couple of days and they should either have the 100 or the replacement 09A. Went back three days later and asked if they had the 100. The guy comes back with the 09A. I told him I thought they were recalled and he told me these were the replacements.

After reading through this thread, I checked the lot number at it's F10R05E1. I might take them back to the dealer tomorrow and see if I can get a straight answer about which ones are okay.

09A is the correct oil filter

we did get some new ones in

F10-something-something was the serial number

we have to trust that these filters are good to install
subaru would not re-ship out the 'bad' filters

apparently all of the 'defective' filters have been returned....

the new 15208AA09A's should be available now, and again,
our first batch did start with F10....

Jamie

It would be good if we could get a definative answer from Subaru themselves. Can anyone call them and ask specifically what serial number the good ones start at? First it was all F8-F10's, now it's partial F10's. I have an F10 that I'm taking back this morning so I'll try to get the right answer if possible from my dealer. Why did Subaru ever change to these crap filters. I swear... everything "Made in the USA" sucks ass.

subaru has not released specific serial numbers

i'm doing my best to keep you guys posted


i will examine serial numbers on our good filters later today

hopefully soon this will all be a memory.... ;)

Jamie

It already is a memory...a bad one :lol:

:) okay guys

latest filters we have has this serial number on it

these are the g o o d filters


F10R25E1


Hope this helps gang...
Jamie
www.subiegal.com

Subietonic (and others)

You seem knowledgable on this pressure relief valve thing; where'd you get your info? Furthermore, why would Subaru replace a filter that had one (100), w/out one, if it can damage engine seals over time?

Anyone? :confused:

Jamie:

Do you offer the six pack o' turbo filters anymore? I can't find them on your site (only can find the non-turbo ones).

Thank you for keeping us all informed.

Subietonic (and others)

You seem knowledgable on this pressure relief valve thing; where'd you get your info? Furthermore, why would Subaru replace a filter that had one (100), w/out one, if it can damage engine seals over time?

Anyone? :confused:


My question exactly! I'd much rather use the 100 version with the PRV than one without.

I can't believe that any Subaru oil filter doesn't include a high-pressure bypass feature. Just because one person said they didn't see one doesn't mean they don't have one; not all are visible without disassembling the filter.

I went filter shopping today and all the ones I picked up Mobil1, K&N, ACDelco, Bosch and they all had the spring inside. I can't remember if the Fram one did or not, but the others definatly did. From all the ones I could see the Mobil1 M1-108 filter for the WRX was the only one that had the wide "round" rubber seal at the bottom that was close to the Subaru 100 filters. All the other ones had the flat seal that I consider cheap. I'm going to check out the Wix and Purolator ones tomorrow, but as of right now I'm seriously leaning towards the Mobil1 until I can find a source for the Subaru 100 filters. BTW, this is another SoA choice/change. No other country is switching filters including Japan. They all use the Subaru 100 filters. Apperently SoA is all about being cheap more and more these days. Hey SoA, I have an idea... why don't u just build the cars that get sold in America in Mexico... like you did with the 5 speed trannies in the WRX. Stupid LAMOS!

I've been changing oil filters for over 40 years. I know where to look for a by-pass valve/pressure relief valve and what to look for. All I can tell you is that when I picked up the 09A filter from the dealership, the parts guy said that the number had been changed (100 to 09A) and that Subaru had taken the PRV out of the 09A filter. I asked him why he said that and he indicated that several people had commented about it when they picked it up.

Seems some owners were surprised at the size difference (longer and narrower) and popped it out of the box, turned it over so they could look it over and commented that the PRV was missing. Sure enough, it was missing. When he told me that, I immediately took the filter out of the box and looked it over, looking both for the bore-centered and/or for a bottom-fixed PRV. Nothing. I asked him why it had no PRV and he told me that Subaru had switched mfgrs and that's the way they were being made now.

Anyway, when I took my old filter out (100) and after I emptied it out, I looked it over pretty carefully and yes there was a PRV dead center in the bore just like God intended. Took out the 09A and held them both up side-by-side and you could see all the way to the bottom of the 09A bore and there was nothing there ~15mm of open flow all the way to the bottom.

So, to answer the previous poster's comment, I and several other turbo-motored Subaru owners have seen the same thing... it's not just my old eyes playing tricks on me.

I so want to buy an extra one and take it appart. I looked at the inside again of the new 09A and it almost looks like there is some sort of valve in at the bottom, but you just can't see the spring. It's almost like the PRV is inverted or something. Take a look at the inside and you'll see that the center is fastened in the middle. Could it be that the PRV is still there, but in a different design? I don't know... I'm not an oil filter guy, but I can tell you that the thing that bothers me the most about the new 09A filters is the wimpy gasket... it's almost 1/2 the size in diameter then the ones on the 100 filters. Anyway, someone that has an extra one and a filter cutter... cut this thing open and let's see what's up with it. I'm installing mine tomorrow because I can't get my hands on a 100 anytime soon and I just don't trust retail oil filters over OEM ones.

I have one sitting around.....how should I go about cutting this puppy open ?

well, you could poke a flathead screwdriver into the side and peel it open like a can, or you could hack saw it, or you could use an exhaust cutter (the kind withthe sharp cutter wheels) all will work. the screwdriver method is pretty easy though.

Jerry

I just noticed seepage on my garage floor and I just got my oil changed earlier this week. Looks like I'm heading back to the dealer! :mad:

well, you could poke a flathead screwdriver into the side and peel it open like a can, or you could hack saw it, or you could use an exhaust cutter (the kind withthe sharp cutter wheels) all will work. the screwdriver method is pretty easy though.

Jerry


I will give this a shot this weekend (I'm not bothering to return it to Subaru for 5 bux) and i will post up pics.

are you guys trying to say that these new filters do not have a check valve?

afaik... all subaru OEM filters have a check valve.

i've never heard anything different

Jamie http://www.subiegal.com/images/subiegal-smilie.png (http://www.subiegal.com)

Look inside Jamie... it does not look like it has one. We would love it if you'd consider calling SoA and asking the tech line directly though. ;)

BTW, I just installed mine this morning so we'll see how it does. It did not leak uppon startup and idle after the change. All I know is that if something bad happens and is related to this filter SoA will replace my motor one way or another. I've been changing my own oil on all my cars since I could drive and have never had a problem due to a mistake in the process. Crap for that matter I know more about my car then the grease monkey that I see changing oil at the local Subaru place. You know they are noobs when they say they've never installed SS brake lines before. :lol:

Wouldn't it be funny if a class action lawsuite happens because of something as small as them being too cheap to provide a good oil filter. :lol:

doubt that this seepage would cause a failed engine... :rolleyes:

it's a little drip here and there...

not a gush of oil all over the place :lol:

Jamie:

Do you offer the six pack o' turbo filters anymore? I can't find them on your site (only can find the non-turbo ones).

Thank you for keeping us all informed.


Am I the only one who can't find these filters? Please clue me in. :)

BTW, I just installed mine this morning so we'll see how it does. It did not leak uppon startup and idle after the change. All I know is that if something bad happens and is related to this filter SoA will replace my motor one way or another. I've been changing my own oil on all my cars since I could drive and have never had a problem due to a mistake in the process. Crap for that matter I know more about my car then the grease monkey that I see changing oil at the local Subaru place. You know they are noobs when they say they've never installed SS brake lines before. :lol:

Wouldn't it be funny if a class action lawsuite happens because of something as small as them being too cheap to provide a good oil filter. :lol:


The oil filter only leaks a little bit, and if it gets to the point that damage is done to the engine, then that is not Subaru's fault. You have an oil light to tell you that the oil is low, and you would notice the oil on the ground. If you continue to drive the car with little or no oil, then damage that occurs would be no one elses fault but your own. Even if the dealership does the oil change, you should know not to drive the car with no oil.

And just because they never installed SS brake lines does not make them a noob. Most dealerships do not install aftermarket components, and how may times have you heard that Subaru brake lines need to be replaced?

According to Purolators site, the bypass pressure on the PureOne for the WRX is 14-18psi

so if the OEM bypass pressure is 23 psi and the PureOne bypass is 14-18 what does that really mean?

Not to be stupid here but is the PureOne OK to use for the long term or is it letting to much pressure through?

Am I the only one who can't find these filters? Please clue me in. :)

they were removed for a short time :) obviously... :lol:

they are back now *here (https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=oil+filter&osCsid=5d2be874cb40b420ba7a2e5c7ffc130b)


Jamie Thomas
Jamie@chaplins.com
www.subarugenuineparts.com
We Take Subaru Bucks! <---pm me for info
https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/images/design/logo.gif (https://www.subarugenuineparts.com)
***************************
www.subiegal.com

Thanks Jamie! Order placed!

so if the OEM bypass pressure is 23 psi and the PureOne bypass is 14-18 what does that really mean?

Not to be stupid here but is the PureOne OK to use for the long term or is it letting to much pressure through?

Exactly what I am trying to find out.

Great! If you get a good answer then we will both know...becuase the difference in price is peanuts...I just need to remember to order them from Jamie before my next oil change.

The oil filter only leaks a little bit, and if it gets to the point that damage is done to the engine, then that is not Subaru's fault. You have an oil light to tell you that the oil is low, and you would notice the oil on the ground. If you continue to drive the car with little or no oil, then damage that occurs would be no one elses fault but your own. Even if the dealership does the oil change, you should know not to drive the car with no oil.

And just because they never installed SS brake lines does not make them a noob. Most dealerships do not install aftermarket components, and how may times have you heard that Subaru brake lines need to be replaced?

Girl, I check my oil level every week just to make sure all is well, but to allow a filter to be used that even has a slight leak is total BS on SoA's part. I mean common!!!... how many cars have you had that you just looked under at the oil filter, noticed some leaking and said... oh well, it's designed that way. :rolleyes:

Oh and as for noticing oil on the ground... that's going to be a little hard with the undercover in place. There is plenty of channels in that thing for oil to drop into before it overfills and starts showing up on the ground. Do you really want to start making it a point to pull the guard down every week and check the seal on the oil filter. What the hell?

Point is... the old 100 filters didn't leak at all. New ones seem to leak (I'll tell you if mine does tomorrow when I have to crawl under the car again to check on this stupid filter just to make sure. I installed it this morning when I did the oil change. SoA are just cheap asshats to introduce such a crappy filter, but we won't be able to tell just how crappy it is until more of us use them and see how they hold up.

Thanks SoA for adding yet another thing I have to keep watching from time to time!!!

Oh and as for the "Oil light" thing... by the time that turns on it's already too late.

they were removed for a short time :) obviously... :lol:

they are back now *here (https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=oil+filter&osCsid=5d2be874cb40b420ba7a2e5c7ffc130b)


Jamie Thomas
Jamie@chaplins.com
www.subarugenuineparts.com
We Take Subaru Bucks! <---pm me for info
https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/images/design/logo.gif (https://www.subarugenuineparts.com)
***************************
www.subiegal.com

Are those the 100 filters? Now I'm confused. :confused:

Oh and as for the "Oil light" thing... by the time that turns on it's already too late.

VERY true. If the oil light comes on get our your check book and dont even bother stopping...your engine is already toast. Drive straight to the bar and have a drink!:p

AMEN brotha! :lol:

Girl, I check my oil level every week just to make sure all is well, but to allow a filter to be used that even has a slight leak is total BS on SoA's part. I mean common!!!... how many cars have you had that you just looked under at the oil filter, noticed some leaking and said... oh well, it's designed that way. :rolleyes:

Oh and as for noticing oil on the ground... that's going to be a little hard with the undercover in place. There is plenty of channels in that thing for oil to drop into before it overfills and starts showing up on the ground. Do you really want to start making it a point to pull the guard down every week and check the seal on the oil filter. What the hell?

Point is... the old 100 filters didn't leak at all. New ones seem to leak (I'll tell you if mine does tomorrow when I have to crawl under the car again to check on this stupid filter just to make sure. I installed it this morning when I did the oil change. SoA are just cheap asshats to introduce such a crappy filter, but we won't be able to tell just how crappy it is until more of us use them and see how they hold up.

Thanks SoA for adding yet another thing I have to keep watching from time to time!!!

Oh and as for the "Oil light" thing... by the time that turns on it's already too late.



First of all, you are supposed to check your oil periodically, that's your responsibility.

Second, it's not supposed to be designed that way, a problem occured in production, Subaru caught it and is taking care of it. Subaru didn't make the filter, so don't blame them. They are doing what they can to correct the situation. If you bought an item at Walmart, and it was recalled, who would you blame? Walmart or the company that made the product? All this was was a bad batch that got out after production, and Subaru caught it.

I think you are taking this a little too far...your car is a machine, and crap happens...If your that unhappy with Subaru, go buy another car and see if they recall your oil filter when they discover there is a design flaw....Look how long it took for Ford to take action when the trucks were catching on fire, they were FORCED to issue a recall....

Damn I just recieved a box of 12 of the defective filters :( , guess I'll be seeing about sending them back

so if the OEM bypass pressure is 23 psi and the PureOne bypass is 14-18 what does that really mean?

Not to be stupid here but is the PureOne OK to use for the long term or is it letting to much pressure through?

Yes, the PureOne should be fine to use. Since it has a *lower* bypass pressure than the OEM, it will *not* result in higher oil pressures than OEM.

Rexygirl, if I bought a recalled item at Walmart, I'd blame the manufacturer more, but it would also diminish my trust/image of Walmart. Walmart (Subaru) gets to choose whose parts they will sell; enough bad decisions on which vendor to use (which hasn't yet happened for Subaru) and the company's reputation will suffer.

.....

Point is... the old 100 filters didn't leak at all. New ones seem to leak (I'll tell you if mine does tomorrow when I have to crawl under the car again to check on this stupid filter just to make sure. I installed it this morning when I did the oil change. SoA are just cheap asshats to introduce such a crappy filter, but we won't be able to tell just how crappy it is until more of us use them and see how they hold up.

Thanks SoA for adding yet another thing I have to keep watching from time to time!!!

Oh and as for the "Oil light" thing... by the time that turns on it's already too late.

I agree with rexygirl and subigal (two of our vendor representatives) Subaru responded to the problem immediatly, and did a dealer recall. I personally applaud them for that. The fact that they leak a little will only be a small anoyance until the next oil change, not a threat to anyone's engine. If you ran a business the size of SOA what would've you done differently. Would you throw millions of dollars at an unfortunate short term annoyance? If you would, you wouldn't be in business for long. I think Subaru's response was appropriate.

Oh, and the oil light... It's there to warn you of a low oil condition. It will first come on when you are going around a corner and the pressure switch gets starved for oil then it will go out. That is certainly not too late, however it is a serious warning that means you need to put oil in as soon as practical. If it goes on steady that's a different matter, pull over and put oil in immediately. Still not too late, but don't ever drive with a steady oil light on...

Rocket's two cents...

Rexygirl, if I bought a recalled item at Walmart, I'd blame the manufacturer more, but it would also diminish my trust/image of Walmart. Walmart (Subaru) gets to choose whose parts they will sell; enough bad decisions on which vendor to use (which hasn't yet happened for Subaru) and the company's reputation will suffer.

Exactly the way I see it.

IIf you ran a business the size of SOA what would've you done differently...

I WOULD NOT have switched oil filter manufacturers from the Japan one to an American one so that the higher-ups (executives) could pocket even more money then they already make. Maybe I just value my car more then the average person, but I believe anyone who's a real "car person" would sympathize with me on this. I don't look at my car as a thing that gets me from point A to point B... to me it's like a family member. This is why if you mess with my car we're going to fight.

Most dealerships do not install aftermarket components, and how may times have you heard that Subaru brake lines need to be replaced?

Please don't take any of my responces on this thread the wrong way. I certainly don't mean to be rude to you or Jamie, but if a dealership is expected to perform engine rebuilds you'd think they know how to put on some SS lines. Notice I never said they didn't do the job, but it took them a while to do it simply because it was "A first time thing". If you're going to have people work on cars I think they should be either...

1) ASE Certified.
2) Have a lot of experience.

Personally I'd take experience over certification anyday.

Now, back on track. Does anyone know what the deal is about the PRV and the new 09A filters not having one? Man, wouldn't it be funny if someone overlooked this... :p

my dealer is still installing F08's....:(


btw... i change shortblocks regularly and have never installed ss lines. o, and i have 11 ase certs and 10 years exp.

Jerry

btw... i change shortblocks regularly and have never installed ss lines. o, and i have 11 ase certs and 10 years exp.

Jerry

Noob :p

(Joke)

Yes, the PureOne should be fine to use. Since it has a *lower* bypass pressure than the OEM, it will *not* result in higher oil pressures than OEM.

kinda what I was thinking.....since the bypass pressure is lower it would have made sense to me that things would have been good to go.

Rexygirl, if I bought a recalled item at Walmart, I'd blame the manufacturer more, but it would also diminish my trust/image of Walmart. Walmart (Subaru) gets to choose whose parts they will sell; enough bad decisions on which vendor to use (which hasn't yet happened for Subaru) and the company's reputation will suffer.

Most recalls are issued when a problem (or defect) is found. By then, the item has been sold to many people. If Target, Walmart and KMart all sell the same car seat, and they are recalled for whatever reason, why would you not trust them? They didn't know it was going to happen. And, they participate fully in recalling the item with no questions asked, whether you just purchased it or bought it years ago, and it has stains all over it. The manufacturer is at fault, not the seller. If you think that way, then while you're at it, you shouldn't trust Target or KMart, seeing they sell the same thing, you just didn't buy it from them

I think Subaru did what was appropriate. They are not hassling anyone who may have had the filter on for weeks...they are giving full replacements. What more can they do? At least they didn't acted like it was no big deal and not do anything.

Don't take it personally, I just don't understand why people think like that

I think you're misunderstanding the issue here with the new 09A filters. No one is saying SoA sucks for releasing these filters with initial problems. We're bitching because the new 09A filters seem to suck and look like a POS compared to the old 100 filters made by trusty Japanese people who know what a good quality filter should be. Have you looked at the old 100 and new 09A filters next to each other in person? You'd know what we're talking about then.

rexygirl, perhaps things are different where you live, but in the PNW not every store sells exactly the same items. If I didn't know anything about a brand, I would be more likely to try it anyway at Costco than at Walmart, because I know from past experience that, in general, Costco carries higher-quality items than does Walmart. Similarly, my local traditional bike shop charges more for items than does a bike superstore. However, everything I have ever bought at the bike shop has worked well for my needs, and has been of good quality; that's not true for stuff from the bike superstore.

The bottom line is that I'm paying a premium price in part for the *retailer's* supposed expertise in stocking only good quality items (so I "can't go wrong buying something there"). The more bad items I buy from a retailer, the less I believe in their "stocking expertise," and the less reason I have to shop there.

I think that SOA is handling this filter issue decently after-the-fact. Hopefully, it's a one-time aberration. However, one or two additional similar events will cause me to make my own "stocking decisions" and to think seriously about switching to buying aftermarket maintenance parts.

As for "what more can they do," I think people are concerned that SOA may not fully understand their customer base. Most people who buy OEM maintenance items are concerned about quality more than price, otherwise they wouldn't be paying premium OEM prices. If people get the impression that SOA is emphasizing cost-cutting at the expense of quality, the justification for the premium price goes away. Hopefully, there won't be similar events in the future, and our worries about reduced quality will be shown to have been wrong.

As for "what more can they do," I think people are concerned that SOA may not fully understand their customer base. Most people who buy OEM maintenance items are concerned about quality more than price, otherwise they wouldn't be paying premium OEM prices. If people get the impression that SOA is emphasizing cost-cutting at the expense of quality, the justification for the premium price goes away. Hopefully, there won't be similar events in the future, and our worries about reduced quality will be shown to have been wrong.

"Dead On Target" once again.

As for "what more can they do," I think people are concerned that SOA may not fully understand their customer base. Most people who buy OEM maintenance items are concerned about quality more than price, otherwise they wouldn't be paying premium OEM prices. If people get the impression that SOA is emphasizing cost-cutting at the expense of quality, the justification for the premium price goes away. Hopefully, there won't be similar events in the future, and our worries about reduced quality will be shown to have been wrong.


very true. i guess next we'll have to see if they abandon the oiled air filters...that would be along the same lines imo.

This is why I was buying the PureOne filters...they seem to be very high quality....and very consistent.

This is why I was buying the PureOne filters...they seem to be very high quality....and very consistent.

Do you have a pic of one or better yet, a pic of the inside PRV setup? I really like the PRV setup that was in the 100 filters that Subaru had from Japan. It looked very high quality in relation to the ones I've seen on the shelves in stores from the general vendors. The PureOne's are the only filters I haven't gotten a chance to look at personally.

This is why I was buying the PureOne filters...they seem to be very high quality....and very consistent.

Ditto.

Just returned two of these filters, (one used, one new). And in my case the filter leaked more than a little bit. Over a quart in 2 days :mad: , but my local dealer gave me new ones that wern't under the "recall" and they are working fine.. :banana:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16252

you should check out this thread, oh and here are the pictures of the pure one you wanted to see.
http://www.bescaredracing.com/sti/oil/filters/purolator/

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16252

you should check out this thread, oh and here are the pictures of the pure one you wanted to see.
http://www.bescaredracing.com/sti/oil/filters/purolator/

Pictures are good but what about measurements? I'd like to know how long the filter materials are in both the "premium" and the "Pure One".

Just returned two of these filters, (one used, one new). And in my case the filter leaked more than a little bit. Over a quart in 2 days :mad: , but my local dealer gave me new ones that wern't under the "recall" and they are working fine.. :banana:

But I supposed this is just a little seapage that no one should be worried about........:rolleyes:

Thats premium quality OEM for ya there!!!!

Thanks...I will stay with my PureOne filters.

It's official based on the pics of those Purolators. The new 09A filters are Purolators with different seals. Still no PRV in the filter though... which sucks! I should have taken a picture of the 100 JDM old filter I took out on the oil change. That thing is "Quality" compared to this POS USA made one. Way to go SoA!!! :rolleyes:

Which has no pressure relief valve...the OEM filter? or the PureOne?

Which has no pressure relief valve...the OEM filter? or the PureOne?

the PureOne...

They both don't have one the PureOne and the new 09A filters from Subaru (white ones). With the exception of the seals the 2 filters are IDENTICAL. :( I wish one of the people on here that deal with SoA on a regular basis (Jamie) would call up SoA and see what they have to say about the new 09A filters not having a PRV.

I will attempt to cut open my OEM filter tonight and post pictures. I really don't know how to go about it though....

If there is no relief valve then why do they give a psi value for it on there web site and on the box it comes in? hmm.....thats odd.

Why would you not have one? other than being a lazy cheap SOB.....

It's the SOA 09A filter that members are mentioning has no relief valve.

FWIW - I changed out the 09A filter on mine yesterday (production serial F07...) which I had installed right about the time that SOA was recalling them. There were no leaks, drips, or other external oil seeps from this filter.

Checked again, as I did on first install to see if the PRV was there and I can see nothing all the way to the bottom of the bore. Same with the replacement 09A (production serial F10...). Not sure what this means for the long term as NO PRV means that the oil is free-flowing around rather than through the filter media. That can't possibly be right!

I will attempt to cut open my OEM filter tonight and post pictures. I really don't know how to go about it though....

My money says if you open a 09A filter up it'll look exactly like this.
http://www.bescaredracing.com/sti/oil/filters/compare/premplus_vs_proline_vs_totalgrip/DSC01678.JPG

See the thing in the middle... Pressure Relief Valve (PRV) (OEM Baby)
http://www.bescaredracing.com/sti/oil/filters/oem/DSC01274.JPG

See the thing in the middle... No PRV. (09g"A"y)
http://www.bescaredracing.com/sti/oil/filters/proline/DSC01591.JPG

Well I took an angled shot of the f10 filter I have in my possesion as I still dunno how to take the sucker apart....

here it is..


http://www.albany.edu/~tw9428/images/f10.jpg


where would the PRV be???

Well I took an angled shot of the f10 filter I have in my possesion as I still dunno how to take the sucker apart....

here it is..


http://www.albany.edu/~tw9428/images/f10.jpg


where would the PRV be???

There is no PRV in the new 09A filter (F10) as you call them. Also, look at the picture above of the cut ones. That should give you an idea of how to cut them open. You cut arround the top of the can with a hacksaw until it's through the metal can and then twist and keep going all the way arround. Look at the pic... it'll make sense, but trust me... it'll look just like the 3 above do inside and out.

Pictures are good but what about measurements? I'd like to know how long the filter materials are in both the "premium" and the "Pure One".


http://www.bescaredracing.com/sti/oil/filters/sti_oil_filters.xls

he measured that also, check out this excel document. :banana:

so no prv in either, does that mean the filter is going to blow out my front seals???? Just kidding.

All it took was one look at the 09A filter for me to realize it's a big p.o.s. Then I looked on the side of the filter and saw Made In U.S.A., needless to say I was disappointed. Also I remember reading this filter should be like 5 bucks, too bad i paid the usual 10 dollars and change :(. Anyways does anyone know if there is a way to get the Tokyo Roki co. filter from anywhere? Maybe a U.S. distributor for them or a way to order directly from Tokyo Roki themselves? I'm really not ok with using the 09A filter, as much as I hate to i'll go aftermarket if necessary to avoid using that thing. Anybody recommend a filter with close to the old OEM filter (100) design/quality? Thanks and take care.

Someone needs to print this thread out and fax it to SoA. Maybe they'll get the point.

Someone needs to print this thread out and fax it to SoA. Maybe they'll get the point.
What's the point? That it's PURE SPECULATION that this filter is garbage (barring the defects, which could happen to any product). Nobody has solid proof that the filter doesn't have a PRV, other than looking in it. Maybe it's a different type of design? I don't think Subaru would issue an OEM part that would be known to cause failures down the road, but thats just me.

Its speculation that it doesn't have a pressure relief valve?

what are you smoking? these guys cut the damn thing open!!!!! IT IS NOT IN THERE!!!!!

For what it's worth....

I have the new "09A" (white) series filter on my car for the first time. Before this recent oil change, I've alway had the "100" series (black) filter on the car.

With the "100" series, my oil pressure when at normal operating temps never exceeded 6.0 bars (~87psi), reguardless of rpm. With the new "09A" series, I am seeing up to 6.8 bars (~98.6psi) at 3500+ rpm warm.

Pressure Relief Valve (PRV), or lack of???

i also knew that this new filter wasnt as good as the old just looking at it. i rather run a purolator pure one now, or a mobil 1

I need to watch this...I had my oil changed last week and noticed that my filter has some seepage on the bottom.

I think it would be a good idea for everyone experiencing issues or just having concerns with these new filters to email SoA politely informing them of your dislike of this product. If they start seeing a lot of inquaries or email comming in in reference to this new oil filter they might actually do something about it.

I think it would be a good idea for everyone experiencing issues or just having concerns with these new filters to email SoA politely informing them of your dislike of this product. If they start seeing a lot of inquaries or email comming in in reference to this new oil filter they might actually do something about it.

good point.


here ya go everyone:

http://subaruofamerica.com/tools/contactus/index.jsp

Man... after reading all this I'm sure glad I have several of the AA100's still left.

If you want to sell some I'm sure you can make a "crack" like profit on them. :lol:

Its speculation that it doesn't have a pressure relief valve?

what are you smoking? these guys cut the damn thing open!!!!! IT IS NOT IN THERE!!!!!
I haven't seen an actually picture of this Subaru Filter cut open anywhere in this thread.

Anyway, I'll assume it doesn't have the PRV since enough of you are saying it doesn't.

Maybe Subie Gal or rexygirl can find out why Subaru would make this change when it apparently causes engine seals to fail:

Sure, there are failures out there on the front engine seals for other reasons, but the majority of them have to due with the speed the oil flows thru the filter, thus, over time, blowing out the seals.

Don't leave us hanging.

If you want to sell some I'm sure you can make a "crack" like profit on them. :lol:

:lol: I probably could but with all the problems people have been having with the AAA09A's I wouldn't feel right about it. But I'm willing to let go a few if any one is desperate for an oil change. The dealer sold me his last AA100's at 10.00 a piece and if you need the crush ring I have those too. But the Purolator's and the AA09A's are much cheaper. I think with shipping just to get it to some of you guys, it wouldn't be a deal at all. But if you still want one, just PM me. :)

I haven't seen an actually picture of this Subaru Filter cut open anywhere in this thread.

Anyway, I'll assume it doesn't have the PRV since enough of you are saying it doesn't.

Maybe Subie Gal or rexygirl can find out why Subaru would make this change when it apparently causes engine seals to fail:



Don't leave us hanging.

I concur.

I haven't seen an actually picture of this Subaru Filter cut open anywhere in this thread.

Anyway, I'll assume it doesn't have the PRV since enough of you are saying it doesn't.

Maybe Subie Gal or rexygirl can find out why Subaru would make this change when it apparently causes engine seals to fail:



Don't leave us hanging.

Ya know..your right. I thought one of the links I was following off here to be scared racing had the new filter without a PRV. But I was looking at the wrong filter. I will have to go buy a filter and cut that sucker apart!

I changed oil and filter on my wife's '06 FXT last week and used the "new" 15208AA09A filter. She came home last night and complained of oil smell. So I went out today and looked under the car, oil everywhere! :eek: ! I put the car on my lift and the source appeared to be from the filter. After cleaning everything up I started the car and observed the filter. Within seconds oil was seeping out between the rolled lip and the outer circumference of the can. Piece of JUNK! :furious: ! Batch number F08R05E1. As I always fire up all cars after oil changes and observe the filter for any leaks, I know the filter did not leak initially. But the leak occured within 300 miles because that is what it has.

Fortunately a little oil goes a long ways, the oil was still way above the add mark, and I had a AA080 on the shelf for the STi, so the car is back on the road.

So hey vendors, I got three cars that need this filter, what do you have that works? I'll take this filter (and the others I bought with it) back to the dealer I got them from, but unless I see some sort of technical bulletin addressing it I do not want to trust another AA09A filter.

Judging from this thread others have had this problem. I'm lucky, :D , but Subaru had better address this.

Cheers!

This is exactly what happened to me today. Leaking in the same spot. Beware. Now, ANYBODY, have you ever changed a filter without draining the oil pan. I don't want to waste 4 + quarts of Royal Purple. Also if I can not get to the dealer, what filter can I use in the meantime. O4 STi.

Ya know..your right. I thought one of the links I was following off here to be scared racing had the new filter without a PRV. But I was looking at the wrong filter. I will have to go buy a filter and cut that sucker apart!

The 09A filter will look the same as the Purolator ones I've linked in pictures above. I will bet you anything on this. It may or may not have more filter element, but that's not what our concerns are. Our concerns are about the filter not having a proper PRV in it like 99% of the other filters on the market for the WRX/STI.

I strongly suspect the same thing....but assuming the same thing will...well...ya know....;)

This is exactly what happened to me today. Leaking in the same spot. Beware. Now, ANYBODY, have you ever changed a filter without draining the oil pan. I don't want to waste 4 + quarts of Royal Purple. Also if I can not get to the dealer, what filter can I use in the meantime. O4 STi.


I got a leaky one and changed it without draining the pan (didn't want to waist 4+ quarts of AMSOIL). Anyway I only lost about 1/2 quart at most, although it was a mess. I'm not sure on the filter; I went back to my dealer and got another one for free. The new one hasn't leaked so far (knock on wood). Both filters had the F10 serial.

I got a leaky one and changed it without draining the pan (didn't want to waist 4+ quarts of AMSOIL). Anyway I only lost about 1/2 quart at most, although it was a mess. I'm not sure on the filter; I went back to my dealer and got another one for free. The new one hasn't leaked so far (knock on wood). Both filters had the F10 serial.

Same here. Thanks. I have never changed a filter without draining so I had no idea what to expect. I called the dealer. He said Purolater safe to use til next time. I lost about half qt also.

PRV thing really makes me curious. Did they just decide it was over protection? Wierd.

good point.


here ya go everyone:

http://subaruofamerica.com/tools/contactus/index.jsp


Sent a message. Friendly tone. As in "just thought you might like to know". I should have told me they owed me oil and labor. Maybe they will send some Suby Bucks or something.

The 09A filter will look the same as the Purolator ones I've linked in pictures above. I will bet you anything on this. It may or may not have more filter element, but that's not what our concerns are. Our concerns are about the filter not having a proper PRV in it like 99% of the other filters on the market for the WRX/STI.

I went to PepBoys today and took a good look at the Purolator and I agree with these guys. The inside looks very similar to the AA09A's. No PRV. I looked at three boxes (they must of thought I was a little loco...) and all were the same story. Appearing to have no PRV.

How about we just start buying these instead? ;)

http://www.japanparts.com/Pic/pic170/100-035.jpg

http://www.japanparts.com/db/partslist.php?maker=4

hahah a 30 dollar oil filter. no thanks :)

So which aftermarket filter with a PRV is most similar to the older OEM filters?

None at the moment. From looking at all of them in person they all have kind of a cheap design for the PRV in them. However, I would wager to think that a cheap design would be better then none. I'm still waiting to hear back from SoA on the issue, but I doubt I'll get anything back in detail. We shall see. Oh, just a little FYI, seems from everything I keep reading that Tokyo Roki is a major manufacturer of pretty much all JDM filters for the car manufacturers out there. They are the #1 choice to use in Japan as they have very high standards for all of their filters. At one time even Honda was using Tokyo Roki for filters, but has changed (within the last 2 years) to cheaper USA made filters to save a buck for the US market. Just food for thought.

Honda now uses Fram for the OEM oil filters, at least in the U.S. However the OEM HONDA/FRAM filter is totally built to Honda's spec. An off the shelf FRAM oil filter is totally a different breed.

Before we all go assuming that there is no PRV, remember that there are different PRV designs, not all of which have coil springs visible inside the output "tunnel". I've seen pictures of what looks like a PRV made by riveting a disc that plugs the center tunnel to a flat stamped circular spring's center, and attaching the perimeter of the flat spring to the perimeter of the tunnel. This is on the "outside" of the end cap securing the filter media, so it would only be visible if someone cut apart the filter.

The photo at the top of this page seems to show a small rivet at the center of the disc at the end of the tunnel, which would be consistent with such a design. Has anyone actually cut apart one of the new Subaru filters?

There seems to be several who say they are going to cut one open. So far I haven't seen a AA09A cut open but I have seen the earlier models when I did a search. Also if SOA could get back to us about this issue that would help as well.

Before we all go assuming that there is no PRV, remember that there are different PRV designs, not all of which have coil springs visible inside the output "tunnel". I've seen pictures of what looks like a PRV made by riveting a disc that plugs the center tunnel to a flat stamped circular spring's center, and attaching the perimeter of the flat spring to the perimeter of the tunnel. This is on the "outside" of the end cap securing the filter media, so it would only be visible if someone cut apart the filter.

The photo at the top of this page seems to show a small rivet at the center of the disc at the end of the tunnel, which would be consistent with such a design. Has anyone actually cut apart one of the new Subaru filters?

This is a Purolator filter. This is more then likely what's on the other side of that rivet you're seeing in the 09A filter. I knew I should have gotten 2 just to cut one open and see what's up. If you look closely you can see that this design seems to represent some type of PRV as the disk in the middle serves as a flat tension spring, but it does not in any way seem to be of the same caliber as the old 100 Tokyo Roki filters. It just looks crappy. Of course looks can be deceiving, but since I'm an American I believe that size matters. :lol:
http://www.bescaredracing.com/sti/oil/filters/purolator/pureone/14612/DSC01200.JPG

Hmmm, just goes to show that you should read everything on the net w/ a grain of salt. I'll go back to my original assertion that Subaru would not switch to a filter that would damage engine seals until evidence proves otherwise.

If you want to consider that a PRV I guess you also wouldn't mind if Subaru would just make the airbags in the car out of birthday balloons...

Looks like a clever design to me, but durability is the key question. I would want to make sure the spring hadn't been stretched to the point of not closing after a few 1000 miles of use.
Feel free to posts pics of a cut-open used filter, folks!

Thanks JRSCCivic98 on the pic of the Purolator. Al least we have an idea now what it is. Definitely not the level of the PRV in the AA100's that I have.

Looks like a clever design to me, but durability is the key question. I would want to make sure the spring hadn't been stretched to the point of not closing after a few 1000 miles of use.
Feel free to posts pics of a cut-open used filter, folks!


I have an unused 09a, I just cant figger out how to get teh damn thing apart :mad: :mad:

no ones cut one open yet? i'll do it at work tomorrow. pics coming...

maybe i can find an old black one to cut open too, i'll have to look in everyones oil drain thingie.

I have an unused 09a, I just cant figger out how to get teh damn thing apart :mad: :mad:
You just take a hacksaw and cut through the outer metal shell about 1/2" above the rolled edge at the base of the filter. The outer shell will fall away and you'll be able to see all the guts.

I just wanted to add my two cents. I purchased a filter today from my dealer and the parts manager brought out a 09A. I asked for one of the black 100 series filter after I saw that he had brought me a 09A. He said that Subaru doesn’t make those any more. I then inquired about the recall of the 09As filters. He gave me this irritated look and said well the 09A is the new part number and it replaced the 100 series, which did not really answer my question about the recall. I again asked about the problems with the new filters and he proceeded to tell me that there was a problem with some of the filters. That is certain instances and the right circumstances they would leak maybe a drop or two of oil. Mind you that he is speaking in a, who gives a flying F, why are you worried about this, I am sick of people bringing this up, tone of voice, which did not really instill confidence. He then went on to say that the filter he just gave me was shipped in that very morning (November 18th, 2005) and that there should not be a problem with it.

I am still not convinced, especially after reading this thread. The number stamped on the top of the filter is F10R28E1. I originally told him to give me 5, but I ended up just purchasing 1.



I read Subie Gal’s post about their new shipment starting with F10 and like she says, we have to trust that the new shipment has no defects, but I have sort of lost confidence in these new filters.

I could use a PureOne Filter; I have in the past and have had no problems with leaking. I guess I will try the “Subaru” filter and see if there are any problems first. When I change my oil next week I will dissect my used 100 series filter and post some pics of the inside.


Ok, that was more than two-cents, sorry.

That's alright mn1028 I have a AA09A on the car that I JUST put on two weeks ago. I've been checking underneath for the past 4 days now and since it's cold here in Chicago I'm not sure how that'll affect the integrity of a "faulty" filter, if it is indeed faulty? So far, it's held up. Pressure is good and oil level is good. But... we'll see. I have a bunch of AA100's that I scrounged around for and am SOO glad that I have them now (it did cost me). But I'm going to leave the AA09A on there. Some might disagree with this but b/c over these past days I haven't had any problems I am going to risk it. This doesn't change how I feel about the AA09A from this point on.

aaa was in bed sick all day. tomorrow i'll cut one open.

jerry

ok i salvaged a roko and a f08 out of the trash today...cutting them open now. pics soon:) yeah i know i'm slow....

Boy am I glad that I bought 10 of the 100 series filter! I hope Subaru fixes this issue soon. What an annoyance!

Checked underneath my car once more since it's getting pretty cold. Still no leaks. Thank God!!

I'm beginning to wonder whether Subaru redesigned these filters to allow higher flow for the AVCS-equipped engines, since the AVCS is an oil-pressure-powered system. Seems all of the current gen turbo motors now have AVCS and the NA engines are getting it too. As was mentioned in a previous post, the oil pressure reading is higher with the 09A filters than with the 100 series filters which would, perhaps, be consistent with a Valve Control System that requires higher pressures. Pure speculation on my part but with the lower viscosity oil requirements too, maybe there's a connection. BTW - The AA060 filters that I use for my NA Subes (non-AVCS) definitely have a prominent PRV. Anyone with a new gen NA (w/AVCS) care to comment on the filter requirement for this engine?

I've been following this for a few weeks now and this thread is getting so long I thought I'd take a moment to sumarize my take (so people don't have to start at the beginning) and to share my recent experiance:


1. There are 2 Subaru part numbers for the WRX Turbos and old one and a new replacement one. The old one clearly seems to be better made in terms of its ability to properly seal and included a Pressure Relief Valve. It's still not clear at this point whether or not the new filter (or any aftermarket equivalent) has a PRV.

OLD #15208AA100 (black – has a Pressure Relief Valve & made by Tokyo Roki)
NEW #15208AA09A (white – maybe has a PRV but it’s not clear & made by ???)


2. Bad batches have serial numbers stamped on top of the filter that were numbered F08, F09, and F10

3. Bad batched were supposedly removed from dealer shelves in mid-Oct. 2005

4. Batches whose serial numbers are still F10 that are purchased through dealers after the mid-Oct. removal are supposed to be OK.

5. I purchased one (whose S/N ended in 10) from my local dealer the other day (11/18) after specifically asking him about the removal and being assured they knew all about it and this filter was fine.

6. A few days after I installed it I found my new filter leaked – a lot!! :furious: :furious:

Over-tightening it (meaning turning it pretty much as hard as I could by hand – about 1 full “extra turn” more than I did on the old black filters) reduced the leak to an occasional drip bit it’s still there.


7. The following list of replacement aftermarket filters is taken from a Subaru Forester web site. The Forester XT uses the same OEM part number so these should be equivalent replacements for the WRX Turbo Impreza as well. (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong so I can edit this post.)


PUROLATOR OIL FILTER: L14612

PUROLATOR Pure One PL14612

WIX OIL FILTER: 51365

K&N OIL FILTER: HP-1008

AMSOIL OIL FILTER: SDF13

AC DELCO OIL FILTER: PF1237


As a side note: I'm sure Subaru and the dealers will eventually straighten this out. But I need a solution right now and I would much rather continue to use the original black filter (#15208AA100) on my car. If anyone knows where I can still get some (through a vendor or private party) I’ll take at least 5-10 of them today (and I’m willing to pay a premium to get them).

03 subaru WRX is PL14460

The leaking oil filters had a sealing o-ring that had the diameter too small.

I have had using the old style filter problems. The 06's use only the new filter. The old style will not work..
I had to use one (they had to try a 04-05 filter) and with the current PRV in the old style it made my AVCS and the top end start to tick...

I now have the 09A on my car and with 1200 miles all ready on it no leaks.... The 09a PRV is a better design, With a higher flow rate.

The older spring design didnt like to hold up to the daily temp changes of every day use. Thats spring gets weak as the metal ages with each heat cycle. Same can be said for filters with the plastic PRV such as Fram to name one.. All though I am not sure if anyone is still using plastic PRV in filters anymore.
The older filters didnt fit the 06 cars, and sence and the new filters didnt fit the 05 and below. The 09A is a filter that can fit and be run on both cars, Now they can carry one filter to fit all cars. Helps cut cost down.
From what I have seen. There was a height differance with o-rings and with the spin on area of the filter. The spin on area was not deep enough. This is why the new filters leaked on the older cars. You just couldnt tighten up the clearaces with it and it would leak.
I am pretty sure there is a spin on flange height differace on the blocks.. The new filter covers both.

09A
http://www.albany.edu/~tw9428/images/f10.jpg

older
anyone have a pic of the old one?

The leaking oil filters had a sealing o-ring that had the diameter too small.

I have had using the old style filter problems. The 06's use only the new filter. The old style will not work..
I had to use one (they had to try a 04-05 filter) and with the current PRV in the old style it made my AVCS and the top end start to tick...

I now have the 09A on my car and with 1200 miles all ready on it no leaks.... The 09a PRV is a better design, With a higher flow rate.

The older spring design didnt like to hold up to the daily temp changes of every day use. Thats spring gets weak as the metal ages with each heat cycle. Same can be said for filters with the plastic PRV such as Fram to name one.. All though I am not sure if anyone is still using plastic PRV in filters anymore.
The older filters didnt fit the 06 cars, and sence and the new filters didnt fit the 05 and below. The 09A is a filter that can fit and be run on both cars, Now they can carry one filter to fit all cars. Helps cut cost down.
From what I have seen. There was a height differance with o-rings and with the spin on area of the filter. The spin on area was not deep enough. This is why the new filters leaked on the older cars. You just couldnt tighten up the clearaces with it and it would leak.
I am pretty sure there is a spin on flange height differace on the blocks.. The new filter covers both.
^^^^ Where did you get this info from? You're the second person to mention AVCS and possible problems. My question is... why wheren't there any problems with the 100 filters on the STIs from 04-05. Those cars have pretty much the same engine that's in the new 06 WRXs. There were no AVCS issues on the STI with the 100 filters to my knowledge. Also, there are still a few users of the 09a filter that drive 02-05 cars that have leak issues. Another question... when you got your 06 car... what filter did it come with from the factory?

The leaking oil filters had a sealing o-ring that had the diameter too small.

From what I have seen. There was a height differance with o-rings and with the spin on area of the filter. The spin on area was not deep enough. This is why the new filters leaked on the older cars. You just couldnt tighten up the clearaces with it and it would leak.


I agree. Earlier in this thread (and elsewhere) people have been talkng about "crimped cans" in certain batches being the problem but this seems to be more on track. (Or maybe there was more than 1 problem?) When I had my old black one off and was putting on my white one, I was pretty sure I saw there was going to be a problem with the rubber seal not being "tall enough" compared to the black one. This also may be why tightening it up a litle extra seemed to help seal it better (though not completely). I also forgot to mention that after giving it the extra turn, it only leaks now when it's driven hard (over 6k).

I have a 2004 WRX. The question for me is where can I go to get either an old style black one or a properly