Just want to get some ideas from you guys.
I have an 04 WRX with a TBE (catless) up-pipe (catless) and a short ram intake. I have a GFB MBC that i have been debating on installing for some time now. Is it worth it to do so, or not? I have raced a few friends with Cobb AP Stage 2 (just a TBE and CAI) and beaten him from a roll and a dig many times. I dont understand that, but to a lot of people my car feels faster and clearly is when we raced (hense my hesitation for engine management or a MBC). What do you guys recommend? Any help and all opinions will be appreciated greatly.
-Marc

No do not use it. It has been covered many times. Save your money and buy the AP

No do not use it. It has been covered many times. Save your money and buy the AP


I understand the issue has been covered many times, but does Cobb have a Map that will work perfectly with my other mods besides the TBE? What worries me is how the original stage 2 Map was just a TBE and AP, and I have other mods that I want to work in full potential if i do infact buy the AP. Basically, is the AP going to be worth the money and make my car A LOT fastAr at this point or no?
-Marc

I understand the issue has been covered many times, but does Cobb have a Map that will work perfectly with my other mods besides the TBE? What worries me is how the original stage 2 Map was just a TBE and AP, and I have other mods that I want to work in full potential if i do infact buy the AP. Basically, is the AP going to be worth the money and make my car A LOT fastAr at this point or no?
-Marc

You're UP is fine with stage II. Your intake is hurting your car and is costing you power. Put the stocker back on and save for EM. You will feel a difference. No worries there. You're looking at about another 30 whp...

With an 04, and MBC is NOT a viable option so just forget it...

i would say this is the wrong forum.

Your stock car with just TBE is faster than your friends with AP, TBE and CAI?

+1 for CAI sucks.

Your stock car with just TBE is faster than your friends with AP, TBE and CAI?

+1 for CAI sucks.

Yea, my car is faster with a TBE u/p and short ram vs his stage 2 with just a TBE.

BTW blackpanther, i wouldnt say this is the wrong section for this tread. these guys know best about making power, so why not ask them?

So we think, ditch the short ram, get the A/P and it will add 30whp?
-Marc

So we think, ditch the short ram, get the A/P and it will add 30whp?
-MarcCorrect. And don't be so concerned with how much whp you'll gain. Your car will be much smoother and more responsive with a lot more topend, which to me is worth a lot more than the ~30whp you'll gain. Horse power is nice, tq is even nicer, but drivability is key. Just my .02c

peak HP gains are not everything as vlady said

Yea, my car is faster with a TBE u/p and short ram vs his stage 2 with just a TBE.

BTW blackpanther, i wouldnt say this is the wrong section for this tread. these guys know best about making power, so why not ask them?

So we think, ditch the short ram, get the A/P and it will add 30whp?
-Marc
i thought you said your buddy has a tbe,ap and cai? if so thats why you most likely beat him unless you car is some kind of freak :devil:

i thought you said your buddy has a tbe,ap and cai? if so thats why you most likely beat him unless you car is some kind of freak :devil:

I wish my car was a freak, that would be real cool, but I will break it down for you guys, and please give me your opinions, ideas, etc. Many times, people will/have called BS, but anyone like that please don't waste my time or yours with a response. I am simply looking for advice from experts on what I can do next to make a major difference (aside from a turbo etc.) So far, it seems that adding the AP to my car (with a stock airbox) may be the way to go for a smoother power delievery and wider powerband. Thanks in advance guys.

Here is my comparision with my friends car:

His car: 02 WRX
His Mods: TXS Stealthback (catted), Prodrive Axleback, K&N CAI, AP Stage 2

My Car: 04 WRX
My Mods: TXS Stealthback (catless), STi Axleback, Catless Up/Pipe, MRT Short Ram

On more than one occasion, I have beat him from both a roll and a dig by a decent enough distance that would sway my opinons of the AP's effects. In the same respect, I have a friend who has a 03 WRX with my same mods, with the exception of I/C hoses and a CAI, and we are dead even from any speed. What do you guys think about these results?

-Marc

PS-According to the oh so accurate "butt-dyno" my car absolutely feels faster, from multiple standpoints. Obviously, a car with a smoother boost curve will hit you with less force, but still even from a roll? I am trying to make sense of this all for my knowlege...

cats suck

MBC's suck from what i've heard. ECU's dont like to be told it's limits, it's smarter than you are by a mile

just get a tune, and be a man

What do you guys think about these results?


I did the same thing initially (UP/DP/axleback on stock 05) and didn't have a clue either as to the potential downsides... then I datalogged my car and realized I was pushing 14+ psi boost at a 14.7:1 a/f ratio at 5,000 RPM. Oops.

The CL/OL delay on the 04/05 cars is horrible, and no mods should be made, hell you shouldn't even drive it hard STOCK, until you fix that....

i may have the wrong idea, but i think the benefit of a mbc is to help a turbo HOLD boost and not taper down. if you had a tune to go with it, that would be ideal for your car. i say get it if you must, but don't install it until the same day you will get a tune...

no mbcs on post bugeyes w/o em.

Yea, my car is faster with a TBE u/p and short ram vs his stage 2 with just a TBE.

BTW blackpanther, i wouldnt say this is the wrong section for this tread. these guys know best about making power, so why not ask them?

So we think, ditch the short ram, get the A/P and it will add 30whp?
-Marc

If he has JUST a TBE, then he's not STG2.. up-pipe replaces your first Cat.

If he's runnning with a cat in front of the turbo... then STG2=stage suck

BTW... until you can get better injectors and a custom tune, a CAI will only hurt you.. stock airbox lets in PLENTY of air.. probably good upwards of 300hp

also... Catless>Catted. Period.

I understand the issue has been covered many times, but does Cobb have a Map that will work perfectly with my other mods besides the TBE? What worries me is how the original stage 2 Map was just a TBE and AP, and I have other mods that I want to work in full potential if i do infact buy the AP. Basically, is the AP going to be worth the money and make my car A LOT fastAr at this point or no?
-Marc

The only way to have a perfect map is a custom tune. Every car is different and off the shelf maps are NEVER perfect. I mean they could be safe and make more power than without EM. Yet you can get more safe power with a custom tune by a good tuner. And not to mention the piece of mind to know everything is safe. I have seen Cobb maps be dangerously lean, and TXS maps rob power from being too rich.
On my stage 4 bugeye, I went from 212whp with stage 4 Utec shelf map once corrected timing for knock (91oct)gas here in Vegas. Then I made 241 whp after I tuned it on a Mustang dyno. Then clark made 253 on pump and 270 on 100 oct when he tuned it. This was when it was over 110 ambient outside in the dry desert air. Just somthing to think about.
But to simply answer your question, unless you go bigger turbo and injectors, EM is not that noticable vs price. IMHO, go stage 4 because since you like to race you will be doing it one day anyway. lol
Now I used a MBC on my bugeye before the turbo upgrade with no issues. I'm not sure why everyone is hating on them for 04+ wrx's. could someone elaborate quickly or refer me to a link.
Bugeyes rule the HP for the 2.0 out here in Vegas. Besides my Crawford/Kingpin 530whp 04 wrx. But thats really a 2.35 Crawford block so that don't count. My 270whp HPH Mustang dyno/Clark tuned bugeye is the dynoqueen 2.0 local subie. HPH and the rep from Mustang say it reads >30% less than a dynojet so you can reference. Good luck, your at the begining of a fun ride. :0 Somthing to think about is a UTEC. Then you can run a racegas map for about another 20-40whp. Not to mention it's new software allows for flat foot shifting and it's allways had the option of launch control. Just remember, the faster you are, the more stuff that will break. Mostly tranny/clutch issues. You gotta pay to play. LOL

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

i may have the wrong idea, but i think the benefit of a mbc is to help a turbo HOLD boost and not taper down. if you had a tune to go with it, that would be ideal for your car. i say get it if you must, but don't install it until the same day you will get a tune...
Realize that boost tapering is good no matter if you have EM or not. Holding boost [without any tapering] to redline means you're really pushing the turbo out of its efficiency range. This is bad for performance and longevity of the turbo.

You want at least a few psi of taper starting at ~5.5K I believe.