Just to give a update on the car..

Last week we hit 358whp @ 19psi on CA gas on the Gruppe-S dyno.

This week the wick was turned up slighty...the car went to alittle over 400whp @ 22 PSI runnin 100 octane...on just some dataloging dyno pulls that Mike was doin.

Very Very low timing advance with a 11.2 to 1 AFR IIRC.

We are having to make some fueling changes as the PE 850's are pretty much tapped out :(

I'll keep you guys posted...this thing is starting to suprise me :banana: in a good way.

Dyno sheets!


Dyno sheets!

Where are those stinkin dyno sheets!



Sounds sweet none the less. Nothing like 400whp out of a 4 banger!

forget the dyno sheets...i want tme slips!!!

Dyno sheets!


Dyno sheets!

Where are those stinkin dyno sheets!



Sounds sweet none the less. Nothing like 400whp out of a 4 banger!
I'll give the dyno sheets whens the cars done :)

Maxxin out 850s @ 22 psi-23psi :devil: , Lifes a bish :lol:

mod list, congrats.

you maxed 850's at 22 on a GT35R? Doesnt PE flowrate their injectors at a diff pressure though, higher than what we run.?

nice numbers none the less.

Ben

forget the dyno sheets...i want tme slips!!!
Soon :)

So are you gonna go with bigger 1000cc MSD injectors?
Or are you thinking of an aux fuel system like a second set of injectors?

Also, what kinda pump and FPR are you useing? Stock fuel cell? twin pumps? That is if you don't mind already spilling some details. PM me if you want it off the thread. Just interested in your setup.

So at what psi does your turbo wakeup at? 30? :lol:

you maxed 850's at 22 on a GT35R? Doesnt PE flowrate their injectors at a diff pressure though, higher than what we run.?

nice numbers none the less.

Ben
89% duty cycle @ 22 psi

We could push 23-24 PSI...but not safely.

We are making the mods needed to run a stronger 100 octane map and a C16 map.

nice :D

great numbers, must be a blast to drive!

Nice number Mark. What was the torque number?

Nice number Mark. What was the torque number?
320-330 about....still very very flat. :D

Impressive!!!!:) Any chance will be seeing this monster in the track pretty soon? Can't wait to see some 10 second runs. :banana:

Of course. I think you're the bastion of the Subaru community right now since you've done good passes in the past that actually matched up w/ your dyno #'s.

I mean, because with all these 500whp wrxs trapping <120 and doing 13's, you are the last hope before we are all on our way to destruction...

ive never been a fan of big numbers on race gas. Cool though :devil:

I am running NISMO 740s on GT30R at 21 psi using 59% IDC.. interested to know just how fat you must be running to make that high of a IDC on bigger than mine.

Of course. I think you're the bastion of the Subaru community right now since you've done good passes in the past that actually matched up w/ your dyno #'s.

I mean, because with all these 500whp wrxs trapping <120 and doing 13's, you are the last hope before we are all on our way to destruction...

dont you worry my friend. i have all the intentions of making 10's when my car is finished. and its almost done!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=872183


NICE NUMBERS MARK! lets see some video, f* the dyno chart.. i believe you. :P lol

I'll give the dyno sheets whens the cars done :)

Maxxin out 850s @ 22 psi-23psi :devil: , Lifes a bish :lol:

Dam Mark,

Big Valley is making 720 wheel HP using 850cc injectors :eek:

You can read about it in this months Turbo magazine on page 21, its the Black STI on the cover!

Maybe you should fly Gadiel up to tune your car?

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

i dont really see why you need bigger injectors yet?

youre going to drag race on c16 anyways, right? you would be surprised how much farther injectors can go when you can lean things out significantly.

...plus, why not just get an adjustable FPR?

I don't see how you could need bigger injectors with only that much air....turn up the fuel pressure...

At 420 WHP on 93 octane I maxed out 800CC injectors easily. I was able to get a bit more with running 14.4 volts to the fuel pump through a relay but I'd say you won't be able to get much more than 440 WHP out of 850's without reaching 100% duty cycle. Then againyou probably won't get much higher than that on 93 octane anyway so I guess it is irrelevant. This was with stock regulator. Still, I wish someone made a bolt on adjustable unit to give us a bit more room without having to switch out injectors.

Dam Mark,

Big Valley is making 720 wheel HP using 850cc injectors :eek:

You can read about it in this months Turbo magazine on page 21, its the Black STI on the cover!

Maybe you should fly Gadiel up to tune your car?

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com
:lol:
We'll stick it out with the 850's.
I never said we were gettin rid of them...All i said is that @ 22 psi/400whp they were maxxed...there are ways of gettin injectors to flow more without replacing them.

We are taking this one step @ a time...I'll keep you guys posted.

I can't wait for you to run a 10 second pass with 400 and something whp just to show up all those 12 second 500whp cars ;) Congrats again on the car and lets see some fricken video!!!!

I can't wait for you to run a 10 second pass with 400 and something whp just to show up all those 12 second 500whp cars ;)
I fell bad for the guys with 500whp that can't seem to get good timeslips...I hope that my luck is better.

Hey Quirt, It's patrick with blue sti that i left in your shop for a week. do you think that maybe the 720cc injectors are limiting me on the 100octane map? bill had said that it was still struggling a bit on the 100. It seem that eveyone is running 850's? Just curious, I have no idea. Anyone else have input?
- CP-32 Turbo Kit
- 3 inch exhaust
- APS DR725 front mount intercooler
- 720cc Injectors
- Walbro high flow fuel pump
- S3L short block

Markgsti,
What doesn't make sense to me is Victor's car in Puerto Rico makes 720whp on 850's and your saying that your 850cc injectors are maxed out with only 400whp as Quirt so studeously pointed out....does no one else see the point? Even w/o Nitrous Gadiel is pushing the 850cc injectors 190whp more than your setup. So why are your injectors maxed out at the 400whp level, is what i guess i'm trying to say?

the truth behind his 400whp numbers and maxed IDCs is that the Gruppe-S dyno is in my opinon the lowest reading dyno in the country. Thusly it says 400whp and maxed IDCs....he could drive that car to the DynoJet at ATP and pull 450-460whp no doubt.

Get over the 500hp cars, just cause the dyno says 500whp doesnt mean jack squat....yeah its a fast car, but others have run very very fast on JDM 2.0s on FP Greens and SZ49's. Read(Mikaust & Dug-E-Fresh) who both make 450whp and run 11.3. Think about that.

i never trust dyno numbers...i've seen a 339whp xwing RS beat a 500whp skyline and supra in the ultimate street car challenge drag races. It's more about power delivery than peak numbers. Everyone says track times don't lie....and this is true what's fast is fast for certain tracks... we shall see when Mark runs his car at cali speedway if the car is done by then. We'll just have to wait and see.

.

We are having to make some fueling changes as the PE 850's are pretty much tapped out :(




What fuel pressure and pump are you running ?

you maxed 850's at 22 on a GT35R? Doesnt PE flowrate their injectors at a diff pressure though, higher than what we run.?

nice numbers none the less.

Ben


Does sound like they shouldn't have maxed out.(Las Vegas Mustang dyno) I make 420whp on 100 octane with Perrin 800's . I made 530whp (c-16) and was limited on the tune. We had to stop at 28psi since IDC was 93+ in areas. But every car is different. I also use a GT35R with a .82 housing. The turbo is leaking oil now, so if it needs to be replaced, I will go back to the 1.06 housing which the car was designed for. Has anyone heard of a GT35R leaking through the seals? I havent.

Looks like you are on your way to more power. Congrats. :)
PS Let me know how your fuel problem is solved. I will be needing to do the same when the turbo leak issue is sorted out.

Markgsti,
What doesn't make sense to me is Victor's car in Puerto Rico makes 720whp on 850's and your saying that your 850cc injectors are maxed out with only 400whp as Quirt so studeously pointed out....does no one else see the point? Even w/o Nitrous Gadiel is pushing the 850cc injectors 190whp more than your setup. So why are your injectors maxed out at the 400whp level, is what i guess i'm trying to say?
Read post #23.
@ 400whp/22PSI...with the current fuel volume and pressure the injectors were @ 89% duty cycle....close to being maxxed out.

Increase volume and pressure and the injectors can preform better...This is the exact thing Big Valley did with his fuel system and what we are in the process of doing. ;)

Once we are done with this car and everthing comes together I'll gladly spill the beans....no secret turbos or "lighty cleaned up" CNC race heads here ;)

Seems to be two theories going on here
1 - too much fuel being used, which would be because of the tune
2 - not enough fuel because of pressure, volume, octane or because of the tuning

Not sure of either for this situation, but I'v read ton here that people have made more power with less. Have you considered having someone else tune the car just to confirm the diagnosis?

Anyway, you seem happy with your car and that's the most important thing:)

Mike

Seems to be two theories going on here
1 - too much fuel being used, which would be because of the tune
2 - not enough fuel because of pressure, volume, octane or because of the tuning

Not sure of either for this situation, but I'v read ton here that people have made more power with less. Have you considered having someone else tune the car just to confirm the diagnosis?

Anyway, you seem happy with your car and that's the most important thing:)

Mike
This whole thing is real simple,...but as normal is has been taken and twisted and now somehow the tuners skills come into question? :rolleyes:

Hey Quirt, It's patrick with blue sti that i left in your shop for a week. do you think that maybe the 720cc injectors are limiting me on the 100octane map? bill had said that it was still struggling a bit on the 100. It seem that eveyone is running 850's? Just curious, I have no idea. Anyone else have input?
- CP-32 Turbo Kit
- 3 inch exhaust
- APS DR725 front mount intercooler
- 720cc Injectors
- Walbro high flow fuel pump
- S3L short block

Hello Patrick,

Gadiel has made 720whp with the 850's and Bill has made 605whp with the 720's. If you plan of running more than 550whp, I would go with the 850's to be on the safe side :)

How is your car running?

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

This whole thing is real simple,...but as normal is has been taken and twisted and now somehow the tuners skills come into question? :rolleyes:

The tuners skill is what makes the difference,,, period.

You can have the best motor in the world die on the dyno from a poor tuner, or you can have a stock motor make 530whp that is tuned by great tunner.
Tuning is not something that a person can learn overnight.

If you have a good tuner, stick with him. And be careful having someone else tune your car for a diagnosis, this could lead to a damaged motor.

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

Hello Patrick,

Gadiel has made 720whp with the 850's and Bill has made 605whp with the 720's. If you plan of running more than 550whp, I would go with the 850's to be on the safe side :)

How is your car running?

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com


Quirt, Cars running great! Thanks again...

The tuners skill is what makes the difference,,, period.

You can have the best motor in the world die on the dyno from a poor tuner, or you can have a stock motor make 530whp that is tuned by great tunner.
Tuning is not something that a person can learn overnight.

If you have a good tuner, stick with him. And be careful having someone else tune your car for a diagnosis, this could lead to a damaged motor.

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

Which dyno was it (age old question) as it is always, as you know, apples to oranges when comparing dynos. Gruppe-s's dyno reads a stock STI around 215 - 220 whp which on average is around 15% less than a dynojet. My guess is Mark's car would put down around 460 whp at 21psi, not too bad. I can only imagine that 700+ whp is done at what 30 psi? I have only heard great things about Mike at Gruppe-S from several friends.

The point of this thread was to let people know the limits of the factory fuel system.

On my car it seems to be about 460whp on a dynojet...pushing the 850 injectors with a upgraded intank pump to a 89% IDC.
We could of pushed it to say close to 500whp on a dynojet running about 23-24psi with a little more timing...but why risk it??...My car seems to be cursed and we are not taking any chances.

All along we have planed to make the needed upgrades to the fuel system...Thats why today less then 24 hours after finding the limits...a twin pump and adjustable regulator are going in...and a set of rails is sitting there just in case.

I have to give a BIG hand to Mike and the team @ Gruppe-S for taking this thing on..as this is a project that most any shop will not want.

Yup, I agree with Mark and others on this one. Mike is one of the best tuners here in Cali. He know his stuff, and I wouldn't go to anyone else. So far he has taken good care of me, my car, and setup.:)

What are the egt's like? And what do you consider low timing?

What are the egt's like? And what do you consider low timing?

Nice Question....

What are the egt's like? And what do you consider low timing?
You would have to ask the tuner...@ this point they were just dataloging runs...not that much for pure power.


If you know anything about Mikes tuning style...then you know he is by far the most cautious tuner out there.

To all that question the tuner...

In threads I've read, it is VERY uncommon for cars to put down over 350whp on that dyno. Think about it, it's a low reading dyno.

If his car is making over 400whp on that dyno that is saying alot. Also, it sounds as though they are VERY early in the tuning process. With an exotic setup like this, you don't just slap on your GT35R base map, do some tuning for an hour and presto, we just made 550 whp everybody.

At 420 WHP on 93 octane I maxed out 800CC injectors easily. I was able to get a bit more with running 14.4 volts to the fuel pump through a relay but I'd say you won't be able to get much more than 440 WHP out of 850's without reaching 100% duty cycle. Then againyou probably won't get much higher than that on 93 octane anyway so I guess it is irrelevant. This was with stock regulator. Still, I wish someone made a bolt on adjustable unit to give us a bit more room without having to switch out injectors.

How much better than a Walbro pump was the setup on this car?

BTW can u modify injection timing with ECUTEK software ?

I fell bad for the guys with 500whp that can't seem to get good timeslips...I hope that my luck is better.

its because they are scared to break something

Hi guys,

740cc injectors will run (with increased fuel pressure and running C16 - keeping in mind different AFR with leaded race gas) about 475whp on our dyno. This is at 100%++ IDC, and this car will run high 10's. We do not consider this to be safe for the average customer. That being said we can probably push Mark's car to 450whp on 850cc injectors without increasing fuel pressure. This might be somethign we would do on a shop car, but is a definite no no on a customer's car. Running 100% IDC's is not good for a variety of reasons that I'm sure most of you can understand.

Therefore we are choosing to bump fuel pressure. Keep in mind that any stock chassis car making over 500whp on our dyno with a 2.5 / GT35R will run 10's with a good launch / good driving. And honestly dyno numbers are just numbers and are only relative to the dyno. Oh BTW, the fuel mass required for 100 octane and C16 is totally different. Fuel flow versus relative horsepower should only be compared with same octane levels. :)

Cheers,

Gary
Gruppe-S

If his car is making over 400whp on that dyno that is saying alot. Also, it sounds as though they are VERY early in the tuning process. With an exotic setup like this, you don't just slap on your GT35R base map, do some tuning for an hour and presto, we just made 550 whp everybody.


Seriously, I think most people don't realize how long it takes to ACTUALLY tune a completely custom map; most people run off the shelf setups that only need to be tweaked from the base map.

Seriously, I think most people don't realize how long it takes to ACTUALLY tune a completely custom map; most people run off the shelf setups that only need to be tweaked from the base map.
Exactly.

Contrary to popular belief, big power isn't as easy as 1, 2, 3...

Update:
Fuel system upgrades are in... :)

More tuning to come next week.

The tuners skill is what makes the difference,,, period.

You can have the best motor in the world die on the dyno from a poor tuner, or you can have a stock motor make 530whp that is tuned by great tunner.
Tuning is not something that a person can learn overnight.

If you have a good tuner, stick with him. And be careful having someone else tune your car for a diagnosis, this could lead to a damaged motor.

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com
it's humorous to hear you infer that there's something about skill in your tunes that's somehow missing in mark's tune. At the very minimum you should realize that there are tremendous differences from dyno to dyno and that additional will work to bring additional fuel pressure for the injectors. Really you're just being an ass, and vendors should really not being acting like this on this forum, pissing in somebody else's thread. Sounds like you're just trying to protect your motor business. Why don't you ask Bill about that dyno, he knows how low it reads. Why don't you take your car that made 600 hp on 720s on 100 octane and bring it up to gruppe-s and see what it makes. Put your money where your mouth is. Anyway, I've seen plenty of ****ty tunes from your shop, Mike is one of the best tuners out there, certainly a class or two better than Bill, and I can't say anything about Gadiel because I haven't seen any of his tunes.

^^^ Thank you for saying what I have been thinking.

it's humorous to hear you infer that there's something about skill in your tunes that's somehow missing in mark's tune. At the very minimum you should realize that there are tremendous differences from dyno to dyno and that additional will work to bring additional fuel pressure for the injectors. Really you're just being an ass, and vendors should really not being acting like this on this forum, pissing in somebody else's thread. Sounds like you're just trying to protect your motor business. Why don't you ask Bill about that dyno, he knows how low it reads. Why don't you take your car that made 600 hp on 720s on 100 octane and bring it up to gruppe-s and see what it makes. Put your money where your mouth is. Anyway, I've seen plenty of ****ty tunes from your shop, Mike is one of the best tuners out there, certainly a class or two better than Bill, and I can't say anything about Gadiel because I haven't seen any of his tunes.
WOW...Right on brother man :disco:

Seriously, I think most people don't realize how long it takes to ACTUALLY tune a completely custom map...
Been there, done that - and it DOES take quite a bit of time, even running real time adjustments using ProTuner. My tuner worked his way up slowly, and methodically.

it's humorous to hear you infer that there's something about skill in your tunes that's somehow missing in mark's tune. At the very minimum you should realize that there are tremendous differences from dyno to dyno and that additional will work to bring additional fuel pressure for the injectors. Really you're just being an ass, and vendors should really not being acting like this on this forum, pissing in somebody else's thread. Sounds like you're just trying to protect your motor business. Why don't you ask Bill about that dyno, he knows how low it reads. Why don't you take your car that made 600 hp on 720s on 100 octane and bring it up to gruppe-s and see what it makes. Put your money where your mouth is. Anyway, I've seen plenty of ****ty tunes from your shop, Mike is one of the best tuners out there, certainly a class or two better than Bill, and I can't say anything about Gadiel because I haven't seen any of his tunes.

AMEN! +1 Subscribed.

it's humorous to hear you infer that there's something about skill in your tunes that's somehow missing in mark's tune. At the very minimum you should realize that there are tremendous differences from dyno to dyno and that additional will work to bring additional fuel pressure for the injectors. Really you're just being an ass, and vendors should really not being acting like this on this forum, pissing in somebody else's thread. Sounds like you're just trying to protect your motor business. Why don't you ask Bill about that dyno, he knows how low it reads. Why don't you take your car that made 600 hp on 720s on 100 octane and bring it up to gruppe-s and see what it makes. Put your money where your mouth is. Anyway, I've seen plenty of ****ty tunes from your shop, Mike is one of the best tuners out there, certainly a class or two better than Bill, and I can't say anything about Gadiel because I haven't seen any of his tunes.


Another challenge that I-Speed and Crawford Performance won't own up too.

it's humorous to hear you infer that there's something about skill in your tunes that's somehow missing in mark's tune. At the very minimum you should realize that there are tremendous differences from dyno to dyno and that additional will work to bring additional fuel pressure for the injectors. Really you're just being an ass, and vendors should really not being acting like this on this forum, pissing in somebody else's thread. Sounds like you're just trying to protect your motor business. Why don't you ask Bill about that dyno, he knows how low it reads. Why don't you take your car that made 600 hp on 720s on 100 octane and bring it up to gruppe-s and see what it makes. Put your money where your mouth is. Anyway, I've seen plenty of ****ty tunes from your shop, Mike is one of the best tuners out there, certainly a class or two better than Bill, and I can't say anything about Gadiel because I haven't seen any of his tunes.
I think everybody (that is unbiased of course) will concur with your thoughts here b/c they are just flat out true. I kinda said this earlier in one of my posts (post #44), I just didn't bring the hammer down so hard... ;)

:lol:

Dam Mark,

Big Valley is making 720 wheel HP using 850cc injectors :eek:

You can read about it in this months Turbo magazine on page 21, its the Black STI on the cover!

Maybe you should fly Gadiel up to tune your car?

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

Uh, Gadiel turned up his fuel pressure and added a second fuel pump, which I am certain Mark is doing - so Mark will also be using the PE850s, just like Gladiel does...

If you have a fixed flow, ie 850 cc injector, you can increase flow by turning up the fuel pressure - causing it to flow more than 850cc, or by installing larger injectors....Gadiel and I'm certain Mark will also turn up the fuel pressure.

Mark, I'm sorry I missed this thread - I think you tried to call me last week but I was in work hell and couldn't take the call.

Really Good Job, thumbs up for both Mark and Mike :D

Wow this got heated... I don't think anyone should be bashing Crawford. He's been around for a long time...You should listen to wise old men because they have experianced more than you have at your point in life. Us young bucks should listen and learn from there experiance.

I think Quirt knows exactly what he's talking about. Problem is you'll never know cause, you'll think a studdering tune is the greatest thing on earth because, you've never known anything else.

It's like whatching black and white t.v. your whole life and thinking wow this is awesome and never even knowing about color t.v.

Your ignorance really must be bliss.

And if you read Crawfords post he wasn't bashing anybody he was merely stating...you took it as bashing.

You guys are too concerned with which dyno and whats the peak horsepower number...a great tuner is not concerned with that so much. It's more about whats the power/torque curve look like. How does it feel and where's your powerband. By looking at mark's power band and curve you can tell a lot more than from his peak horsepower....now let me guess, someones rebuttle will be gruppe-s's dyno doesn't plot the curve right.

Was that english?

i guess your illiterate...and maybe i got a little ahead of myself because the car is not done...i'll wait till the final dyno plot, to disect it...if the car is ever done. I'll also be at the track dec 4th to see how mark runs.

Funny thing is, most will argue that color TV was the downfall of that medium...

Wow this got heated... I don't think anyone should be bashing Crawford. He's been around for a long time...You should listen to wise old men because they have experianced more than you have at your point in life. Us young bucks should listen and learn from there experiance.

I think Quirt knows exactly what he's talking about. Problem is you'll never know cause, you'll think a studdering tune is the greatest thing on earth because, you've never known anything else.

It's like whatching black and white t.v. your whole life and thinking wow this is awesome and never even knowing about color t.v.

Your ignorance really must be bliss.

And if you read Crawfords post he wasn't bashing anybody he was merely stating...you took it as bashing.

You guys are too concerned with which dyno and whats the peak horsepower number...a great tuner is not concerned with that so much. It's more about whats the power/torque curve look like. How does it feel and where's your powerband. By looking at mark's power band and curve you can tell a lot more than from his peak horsepower....now let me guess, someones rebuttle will be gruppe-s's dyno doesn't plot the curve right.

+1233453554625656

Funny thing is, most will argue that color TV was the downfall of that medium...
lol true that..I see you're from Evanston. I'm orginally from Skokie.

Uh, Gladiel turned up his fuel pressure and added a second fuel pump, which I am certain Mark is doing - so Mark will also be using the PE850s, just like Gladiel does...

If you have a fixed flow, ie 850 cc injector, you can increase flow by turning up the fuel pressure - causing it to flow more than 850cc, or by installing larger injectors....Gladiel and I'm certain Mark will also turn up the fuel pressure.

Mark, I'm sorry I missed this thread - I think you tried to call me last week but I was in work hell and couldn't take the call.

Really Good Job, thumbs up for both Mark and Mike :D
Really quick... his name is Gadiel.. without the L in the beginning ;)

thechoochman28 - I think if you came up to the nor cal and had someone else tune your car you would see the color... It's funny how alot of people that had their cars tuned by Bill switched to a different tuner and realized how much more SAFETY, drivability, and power there was to gain.

i guess your illiterate...and maybe i got a little ahead of myself because the car is not done...i'll wait till the final dyno plot, to disect it...if the car is ever done. I'll also be at the track dec 4th to see how mark runs.
Dec 4th.....

I haven't seen hardly any shops/tuners post about this event :( .

We know what the motives behind Quirts comments are...I'll leave it @ that.

thechoochman28 - I think if you came up to the nor cal and had someone else tune your car you would see the color... It's funny how alot of people that had their cars tuned by Bill switched to a different tuner and realized how much more SAFETY, drivability, and power there was to gain.

You know what i have had a norcal tune before it ran stupidly rich and would hesitate and felt like junk. Granted it made peak power 260whp but had no torque what so ever. I thought it was good until i got road tuned by i-speed...with less boost, he had more power on the first run the car became smooth and torquey...that was 2 and half years ago...and you know what? How much safer do u want it...the car has 50k on it. The engine is still fine and no det.

I've been in other peoples cars that are tuned by other tuners and they're tune sucks they're completely ignorant to the detonation and they drive right through it...weeks later they blow their engine and wonder why. (worst case scenarios)

It's funny that down here everything is opposite of norcal...people switch from other tuners to i-speed. It makes me think a company up there is bashing and spreading lies. Does anyone up their actually have hard evidance against i-speed?

Note i did not mention who i got tuned by up there because i'm trying not to be a basher.

Dec 4th.....

I haven't seen hardly any shops/tuners post about this event :( .

We know what the motives behind Quirts comments are...I'll leave it @ that.
i know...i'd like to see some tuners bring some cars and lay down some times.

i guess your illiterate.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... do you know the difference between your (possessive) and you're (you are)? I think you meant to use you're?

It should be:

Hey, thechoochman28, you're illiterate.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... do you know the difference between your (possessive) and you're (you are)? I think you meant to use you're?

It should be:

Hey, thechoochman28, you're illiterate.
woopty doo!....a typo...who cares why don't you try and really insult me with something that matters...wait, you can't because you don't have anything to insult me with.

oh wait i'll play *your* game....right only has one "i" in it

http://www.i-clu b.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116794&

delete the space between the u and the b...

ok im not trying to be an a-hole but i just put down just over 400whp and 336wtq and i only have the 720cc injectors and they arent maxxed out and im running 22-23psi but i am using a sr55 not gt35 but i hope u hit 10's cause that would be awesome but i cant see it. The best i have done was 11.8 @ 119 and that was at 371whp but good luck and make sure we get to see some timeslips

http://www.i-clu b.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116794&

delete the space between the u and the b...

lol your factual evidence is on i-club ahahahahah that's the funniest thing i've seen all day and that thread brought out most of the a**hats on that forum and still has no evidence whats so ever of anything. :lol: get real man everyone knows adam of i-club has something against chris of i-speed so he goes out of his way to tell people on i-club to bash and then everyone else just jumps in cause the owner of the forum says it...it must be true, right?

well it's been entertaining...i have more important stuff to do today then play on this forum with the likes of you.

Honestly boys, this can be done in another thread.
I don't like Ispeed for never coming out with the RS ecu reflash. But thats a different game ;)
Remember, dynos and drag strips are only tools to help get a car to run the way an owner wants it. Hopefully this owner wants 10s all day long :lol:

ok im not trying to be an a-hole but i just put down just over 400whp and 336wtq and i only have the 720cc injectors and they arent maxxed out and im running 22-23psi but i am using a sr55 not gt35 but i hope u hit 10's cause that would be awesome but i cant see it. The best i have done was 11.8 @ 119 and that was at 371whp but good luck and make sure we get to see some timeslips

That's awesome man and prooves a point...

but on here people will say what dyno and what tuner....then they'll say *you're* a liar and want proof...you'll show them proof then they'll be pissed off cause they don't understand the dyno chart or say your video at the track is fake.

i agree doc! hope he stops cause i'm done.

oh yea and just a question (may not be the right forum to ask on but...) and i do not want a bunch of arguements but who is probably the best tuner around.

now i am not asking who has the best dyno i am asking who is the best TUNER for sti setups

and i am not going to say anything dumb about anyone but you can have the best car, with the best engine and the best tune but you have to know how to drive that car to where u want it
everyone is talking about big horsepower and low track times but like i just said and i have said before its in the tune (of course) and the driver

anyway thanks to all who answer

ok so before people ask i am going to say it was a dyno jet this time after i got it retuned and before it was dynoed with the deltadash through ECUtek software with the old tune and i dont have videos and all that but i do have dyno sheets and whoever asks for proof will just have to wait until i get a digital camera or something and post them on here then they can call them fake and all that and ill just laugh cause i really dont care im happy and thats all that matters in the long run anyway

and just to let everyone know I AM DEF NOT THE BEST DRIVER so my car might go better but who cares its my daily driver and its fast enough for now

I think Quirt knows exactly what he's talking about...And if you read Crawfords post he wasn't bashing anybody he was merely stating...You guys are too concerned with which dyno and whats the peak horsepower number...

I have nothing against Quirt, and in fact I owned one of the very first 2.4 Crawford Subaru engines. He is an outstanding engine builder - no complaints from me!

My problem is that he compared Gadiels modified Fuel delivery system, using 850 cc injectors with Marks mostly stock fuel delivery system, using 850cc injectors and made the point that Gadiel had no problems, and implied the problem was with Marks tuner.

Due to increased fuel pressure, Gadiel gets more than 850 cc of fuel out of his injectors, he turned up the pressure. Mark has not yet turned up the pressure, so he maxes out at 850 cc's....why wouldn't Quirt recognize that?

.

i'd imagine its because he builds motors, not tune them. Good point though.

Dam Mark,

Big Valley is making 720 wheel HP using 850cc injectors :eek:

You can read about it in this months Turbo magazine on page 21, its the Black STI on the cover!

Maybe you should fly Gadiel up to tune your car?

Quirt Crawford
www.crawfordperformance.com

You gotta have duel fuel pumps! You can run 2 walbros on the same power, together they pull the same power as a supra fuel pump. Big Valley STi is running Bosch pump 2ea. You can get a ss y from the beverage factory that works perfect, they both go in the tank together with No problems!

I have nothing against Quirt, and in fact I owned one of the very first 2.4 Crawford Subaru engines. He is an outstanding engine builder - no complaints from me!

My problem is that he compared Gadiels modified Fuel delivery system, using 850 cc injectors with Marks mostly stock fuel delivery system, using 850cc injectors and made the point that Gadiel had no problems, and implied the problem was with Marks tuner.

Due to increased fuel pressure, Gadiel gets more than 850 cc of fuel out of his injectors, he turned up the pressure. Mark has not yet turned up the pressure, so he maxes out at 850 cc's....why wouldn't Quirt recognize that?

.

true that. whoever can't see the point of the above statement or can't understand the proccess of fuel delivery should try to make sense of things rather than blaming their ignorance on other factors (ie. tuners, shops, drivers, weather, etc.) no matter what status they think they have (owners, tuners, specialists, gurus, etc)

my .02 cents.

BTW i have 100% confidence that gruppe-s and mike's tune will bring me in to the 10 second region.

all i need left are head/cams, headers, and c16 tune.

gruppe-s already povided:
gt35r kit
bullet proof block

already have:
850 injectors
FMIC
fuel pump

You gotta have duel fuel pumps! You can run 2 walbros on the same power, together they pull the same power as a supra fuel pump. Big Valley STi is running Bosch pump 2ea. You can get a ss y from the beverage factory that works perfect, they both go in the tank together with No problems!

great explanation.

That's awesome man and prooves a point...

but on here people will say what dyno and what tuner....then they'll say *you're* a liar and want proof...you'll show them proof then they'll be pissed off cause they don't understand the dyno chart or say your video at the track is fake.

i agree doc! hope he stops cause i'm done.

Awesome, you won't be missed.

why wouldn't Quirt recognize that?

.

He does! He is feeling the squeeze from gruppe-s now that they are building motors. I have noticed him following Gruppe-s around lately, much like he did to Kingpin.

The way Crawford/ispeed made that type of power with those injectors is they maxed them out and didnt care as they were glory runs and would never be duplicated.

He does! He is feeling the squeeze from gruppe-s now that they are building motors. I have noticed him following Gruppe-s around lately, much like he did to Kingpin.

The way Crawford/ispeed made that type of power with those injectors is they maxed them out and didnt care as they were glory runs and would never be duplicated.
And would never go to another dyno to prove that they can duplicate those numbers. Shady stuff going on lately it seems.

He is feeling the squeeze from gruppe-s now that they are building motors. I have noticed him following Gruppe-s around lately, much like he did to Kingpin.

Edit....

Actually this is unofficial but I'm going to create custom cranks for 2.8 motors... Since I don't tune I wonder if Crawford is going to accuse me of being bad person and tell people not to buy stuff from me because they do more things for the community.

He does! He is feeling the squeeze from gruppe-s now that they are building motors. I have noticed him following Gruppe-s around lately, much like he did to Kingpin.

The way Crawford/ispeed made that type of power with those injectors is they maxed them out and didnt care as they were glory runs and would never be duplicated.

Just like you're feeling the squeeze from all your current lawsuits? (you can see those in the vendor reviews under kingpin lawsuits)... oh and i remember kingpin hounding crawford...not crawford hounding kingpin and it got so bad the nasioc mods had to put an end to it. I know cause i followed all the threads. Isn't subaru drama just the best?

Just like you're feeling the squeeze from all your current lawsuits? (you can see those in the vendor reviews under kingpin lawsuits)... oh and i remember kingpin hounding crawford...not crawford hounding kingpin and it got so bad the nasioc mods had to put an end to it. I know cause i followed all the threads. Isn't subaru drama just the best?
Wow i had no idea! here is the kingpin threads for the lazy. I'm so glad i never ordered anything from them or bought into all of it.

unsatisfied customers and law suits (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=885493)

another thread on kingpin- go to the last pages (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=485423)

i usually order parts from gruppe-s...cause they're cheaper than anyone else as for tuning i don't know never seen any of their work. I thought i would just post those links...markgsti sounds like your car will be sweet.

Just like you're feeling the squeeze from all your current lawsuits? (you can see those in the vendor reviews under kingpin lawsuits)... oh and i remember kingpin hounding crawford...not crawford hounding kingpin and it got so bad the nasioc mods had to put an end to it. I know cause i followed all the threads. Isn't subaru drama just the best?
You have no clue what you are saying. Crawford had the phony name, not kingpin. You need to read up again.

You have no clue what you are saying. Crawford had the phony name, not kingpin. You need to read up again.
whatever...like i'd believe a bunch of scam artists at kingpin after reading all those posts in those threads. You better pray that you weren't directedly envolved in any fraud and hope no one at kingpin tries to take you down with them or you'll be saying hello to bubba.

I'm sorry mark your thread has become messy. I'd just make a new one when you get more results.

Standing back and reading and hearing all this stuff…well, I’ll toss in my 2 pennies:

I have nothing against anyone here. Personally I want to see markgsti, get his car together and make a pass.
I have bought parts from Gruppe-s, never got tuned there, because they were cheap and plentiful. They did screw up an order of mine but they fixed pretty fast. So, no real complaints from me there. Personally, I do not have too much confidence in their motor building. I mean selling strut bars is one thing, but building motors? Who knows, maybe they will work.
Quirt at Crawford…that guy can be an ass, no doubt. But his results are pretty good (in magazines, the strip and the track). I don’t see any other motor building getting as much press and good results as they do. So the guy is proud of his work. Big DEAL! BTW:I came to this thought, just thinking of sports figures like T.O or SHAQ. A$$es but they produce results. Watcha gonna do eh?
As far as him responding to engine related threads or following posts…ummm, maybe he does so because that’s the subject he knows best.
Oh yeah….”go to another dyno and prove your power numbers!?” It’s good drama, but I am sure I am not the only one who gets get tired of seeing these jr.high call-outs. I am not saying they did or didn’t make that power, but I thought that the proof was in a time slip or the podium, not a graph.

There! My Monday is complete. You can all move along now:D

Mike

I tend to agree with you that calling out may seem childish, but when a Vendor posts irresponsibly, he deserves to be called out. Their dyno reads very high for one, and their results are questionable. Guys like PDX even stated so. So to continue to tout questionable numbers as proof of their tuning acumen is irresponsible. If Quirt was really cool, he would have congratulated him and say maybe he should do this or that given his domain expertise. But instead, he suggested he should fly up one of "his" tuners, for a mechanical issue unrelated to tuning. This is not about how T.O. acts like a selfish child, it's about how Quirt made several comments alluding to bad tuning. I think that Chris and Quirt might infact be the same person!

I think the real measure of Mark's car will be at the track which I expect on c16 will be in the 10s. How many of i-speeds cars have gone 10 seconds?

1. Don't buy anything from a shop that uses old ****ted up sparkplugs, on your brand new motor build up.

2. If you make the mistake of having something installed there anyway, triple check and make sure your not pissing power steering fluid all of the place.

3. If you are pissing steering fluid all over the place, try not to crash going 65+ on the highway with no power steering.

4. The End

1. Don't buy anything from a shop that uses old ****ted up sparkplugs, on your brand new motor build up.

2. If you make the mistake of having something installed there anyway, triple check and make sure your not pissing power steering fluid all of the place.

3. If you are pissing steering fluid all over the place, try not to crash going 65+ on the highway with no power steering.

4. The End

Which shop did this?

Which shop did this?

My guess is SBR since the guy's location is PA. :lol:

My guess is SBR since the guy's location is PA. :lol:
No, but I've heard stories about them too....

power steering fluid isnt too important for anything more than getting started. once you hit 10 mph, your car turns pretty much normal after that do to motion. correct me if im wrong, but i thought thats how ot goes, cause i didnt have PS on my old VW, and it was only bad upto 5mph and turning after was no prob.

peace and love.

You have no clue what you are saying. Crawford had the phony name, not kingpin. You need to read up again.
Even if they did, your the ones that should have been sued for using the damn Amish Bowler...
http://www.ampache.com/video/a.gif

WOW,
Just read this thread
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=485423&page=41&pp=25

You have no room to talk about Crawford in any way,
Turbos 4 weeks late
Engines months late
Wrong cams shipped
Billing people for the total amount before you even SHIP THE STUFF
And the list goes on

I ordered my shortblock from Crawford on a monday and recieved it 2 days later(I paid for the shipping).

damn,this went way off topic.

nice ride.

Grow up guys this is serious stuff here!! This isn't about some power steering pump install gone bad. This is about seriuos money from multiple customers, totaling in the 10's & 10's of thousands of dollars.

Someone else that knows about the pissing power steering fluid... :devil:

Someone else that knows about the pissing power steering fluid... :devil:
is he back on the forum or still banned? :devil:

Mark, what turbo is it? a GT35R?

Mark, what turbo is it? a GT35R?
yes. :banana:

Im running 22psi on 93 relatively safely on modded stock injectors flowing 816cc on a 35R. Whats up with the race gas and maxing out your 850's??

Sorry for taking this way off topic before... My input... I'm running my DR65
at 23psi on 93oct with PE850's at safe levels

Whats up with the race gas and maxing out your 850's??
You gotta read the first two pages of the thread...that will explain it all.


On a side note....Why not leave the bashing of different vendors in the vendor review forum?

Neither Kingpin nor Crawford have anything to do with my car.

Sorry for taking this way off topic before... My input... I'm running my DR65
at 23psi on 93oct with PE850's at safe levels


I guess if we would of pushed the car to 450 whp on a C-16 tune with 100% IDC(unsafe :( )...then we could hit close to the #'s other tuners are gettin on a lighty upgraded fuel sysytem,....on their higher reading dynos(read 500whp+).

We would of run out of injector even with the advantages of the C-16 fuel without bumpin the pressure and/or increasing the volume.

You gotta read the first two pages of the thread...that will explain it all.

On a side note....Why not leave the bashing of different vendors in the vendor review forum?

Neither Kingpin nor Crawford have anything to do with my car.
Exactly. Leave the bashing elsewhere. I am sure there are pleanty AIM chat sessions for that. :p

I guess if we would of pushed the car to 450 whp on a C-16 tune with 100% IDC(unsafe )...then we could hit close to the #'s other tuners are gettin on a lighty upgraded fuel sysytem,....on their higher reading dynos(read 500whp+).

We would of run out of injector even with the advantages of the C-16 fuel without bumpin the pressure and/or increasing the volume.
Come on now Man. I want your car to fly too. But in all fairness, iIf you want other people to take your advise of leaving the bashing, then you shouldn't do it either.
BTW, how come you don't post your dyno plots. This whole thread has NO plots. At least give us something...stop being a tease:D

Mike

BTW, how come you don't post your dyno plots. This whole thread has NO plots. At least give us something...stop being a tease:D

I'll give you the plots after we are done with the tuning ;)

GLad to see you back up and running again. Good luck with the new setup.

bump for any new whp data

bump for any new whp data


+1 :disco:

bump for any new whp data

Bump to laugh at Mark for more months of his car not working :lol:

HAHA Jk, Mark fix your car and make it disapear :banana: Come Race my car, beat my 12.1 even though I would have beaten it today but it started raining :furious:

Poor Mark.

what happened, did his car blow or what?

why mark dont post plots?

Ben

Mark's car is fine, he's going with a hydra now, should be much easier to tune....

Mark's car is fine, he's going with a hydra now, should be much easier to tune....


+1, His car was working perfectly fine on the dyno, then it decided to get a mind of it's own and run like **** :furious:

Mark's car is fine, he's going with a hydra now, should be much easier to tune....
Lets hope the old saying proves true "All good things come to those who wait."

Amen, I've been waiting quite a while for my setup.

And I'm gonna keep waiting to see your results also!

Mark's car is fine, he's going with a hydra now, should be much easier to tune....

I was wondering when he'd switch...

I was wondering when he'd switch...
All is set to have the hydra installed tomorrow.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Best wishes with you and the hydra Mark!:) Hope everything works out.

I heard his motor had low compression in the #4 cylinder.










j/k

Rumor has it the car is back and definately in full force :)

Rumor has it the car is back and definately in full force :)
Meaning?

Meaning?

Hahaha, I know what he's talking about! It's funny how mark is always the last to know the Good news about his car but always the first to know the Bad news.

:p

Hahaha, I know what he's talking about! It's funny how mark is always the last to know the Good news about his car but always the first to know the Bad news.

:p



HAHA I know, Mark you might want to call Mike in the morning :lol:

:disco: :banana:

Uhmm lets see 12:20 call my tuner.???Naa




Better get all the laughs in you can....bishes. :furious: :p

E D I T

Damn isn't that some $hit... Hey Mark since they know all the details before you do...
Maybe they should be paying the Bill :)

Maybe they should be paying the Bill :)
:disco:
I agree.

not too get way off topic or anything but...
do you know the status on Bo's forester Mark?
We are awaiting that beast over here in San Diego.

not too get way off topic or anything but...
do you know the status on Bo's forester Mark?
We are awaiting that beast over here in San Diego.

i saw it when i was getting my 100octane tune for the gt35r :banana:


status... umm... it's black... lowered and is fast as hell for a Forestor :lol: :disco: Oh and it was in the garage

i saw it when i was getting my 100octane tune for the gt35r :banana:


status... umm... it's black... lowered and is fast as hell for a Forestor :lol: :disco: Oh and it was in the garage
ahahaha,they keeping it nice and clean for me. :banana:

ahahaha,they keeping it nice and clean for me. :banana:


haha yup looked clean to me. And damn it was bad ass to watch your minivan do AWD doughnuts on the street too!!! That thing can spin! :lol:





j/k :p

HAHA I know, Mark you might want to call Mike in the morning :lol:

:disco: :banana:


So Mark Did you call your tuner to see what's up??? Guess alot of ppl know your car is running strong ??

haha yup looked clean to me. And damn it was bad ass to watch your minivan do AWD doughnuts on the street too!!! That thing can spin! :lol:





j/k :p
ahahaha, :lol: i am going to kill you!!!

Is it done yet?

Is it done yet?


I'm sorry, but Mark and his "Done" don't exactly go hand in hand... The correct question would be "Is the car running, and making the power it SHOULD be for it's current mods" and you must ask this question hourly, because within minutes Mark will have a whole pile of new mods on the way just as the car is being finished!!

I heard the car was sent to Vishnu for some final tweeking before it hits the street

I heard the car was sent to Vishnu for some final tweeking before it hits the street
ZINGA!!!

haha yup looked clean to me. And damn it was bad ass to watch your minivan do AWD doughnuts on the street too!!! That thing can spin! :lol:





j/k :p
ooohhhhhhhhhh, I almost hit the floor :eek:

I heard the car was sent to Vishnu for some final tweeking before it hits the street
You heard wrong.

Mark, so what's the status??? I'm dying here waiting for you.

Updates?

Just to give a update on the car..

Last week we hit 358whp @ 19psi on CA gas on the Gruppe-S dyno.

This week the wick was turned up slighty...the car went to alittle over 400whp @ 22 PSI runnin 100 octane...on just some dataloging dyno pulls that Mike was doin.

Very Very low timing advance with a 11.2 to 1 AFR IIRC.

We are having to make some fueling changes as the PE 850's are pretty much tapped out :(

I'll keep you guys posted...this thing is starting to suprise me :banana: in a good way.




Very nice numbers on 100 octane





Chris Macellaro :)

Sorry..I've been busy dealing with none cars problems for the last 1-2 months...My house got flooded recently so I've been busy with all that stuff. :(

I went out a bought a 06 Civic SI thaty dyno'd 161 whp over on the Gruppe-S dyno a few days ago :lol:

Well the cars switched over to a Hdyra now....along with all the goodies..I don't know if I mentioned that.

It had made 400+whp before and its more now...but no final #'s yet.


It did pickup quite a bit of TRQ aswell.

Are we done yet? Jeez, any other company would have been done by now.

Are we done yet? Jeez, any other company would have been done by now.
If i ain't trippen and its my car,...then its alright ;)

^^ :lol:
Good things are worth the wait. He only started thie thread a week ago.

Are we done yet? Jeez, any other company would have been done by now.


:rolleyes:

Build your own car, then you'll have something to sweat.

Mark what do you think youll run in the 1/4 on the 100 octane 400whp tune?? 400whp kinda seems low for a gt35r on a 100 octane. But its probly a low reading dyno for sure..

Mark what do you think youll run in the 1/4 on the 100 octane 400whp tune?? 400whp kinda seems low for a gt35r on a 100 octane. But its probly a low reading dyno for sure..
This was about 410whp @ 21-22psi last time out IIRC...This was still with a way rich AFR and low ign. timing and running factory style EM.

I'm pretty sure we can pull 425-440 whp on 100 octane with this car once its done...moreso now since it runs a open turbo with no MAF restriction @ the race track...running 23-25psi.

The tuner advises not to push the car too hard on 100 octane..as this setup works better with true race fuel...110+ octane on up.

That 100 octane should be good for 126-127 mph with the curent setup and the new features the car has like flat foot shifting and boost anti lag.

What is 126 mph good for??..I would say low low 11's with the right driver.

But only time will tell :)

Oh come on Mark, I got 11.7's at 120... you should be able to hit 10.9's@126!!

what does a stock sti put down on gruppe-s dyno?

what does a stock sti put down on gruppe-s dyno?

215-225whp

awesome man congrats

215-225whp

Like this guy knows... :lol:

Mark what do you think youll run in the 1/4 on the 100 octane 400whp tune?? 400whp kinda seems low for a gt35r on a 100 octane. But its probly a low reading dyno for sure..

The baseline numbers seem to change by the mood of the day. They read anywhere between 205-245. Then add their SAE correction numbers on top of that. Might want to get a Mustang Dyno rep out there to check on the inconsistency of the dyno.

The baseline numbers seem to change by the mood of the day. They read anywhere between 205-245. Then add their SAE correction numbers on top of that. Might want to get a Mustang Dyno rep out there to check on the inconsistency of the dyno.

Where has it been said 205-245??? Also what SAE correction?

As for the inconsistency remark that made me laugh.

fwiw, my gt35r dyno'd 440whp/400tq on 93 octane, dynojet, stock sti puts down 240whp.

I get tired of the dyno #'s game so many people play on here.

Thats were the P.R. do have my respect..they dyno their cars....and run them to back up their dyno figures.

We have Soooooo many high hp cars here in the country....only 4 or 5 have run decent low 11 second passes.

Again dynos are used for tuning...but most people assume...i have a 420whp car...so it must be faster then this guys 380whp car :lol: :rolleyes:

If this was the case then Topspeed, King pin, Harman would have many many cars in the 10's by now ;) (no slam on these tuners intended)

The baseline numbers seem to change by the mood of the day. They read anywhere between 205-245. Then add their SAE correction numbers on top of that. Might want to get a Mustang Dyno rep out there to check on the inconsistency of the dyno.

Get a life bro. My mood will change when you stop posting your garbage.

canosardines, you're throwing out red herrings... people are just idiots on these forums with the whole inter-dyno comparisons. You can't compare dynos period. Trust me if you think your pump gas dyno is making more hp than Mark's 100 octane setup, really think again. Gruppe-s dyno is more consistent than others because they don't SAE correct like some of the ridiculous numbers others have posted. Baselines really don't tell the difference in how hp is measured throughout the whole curve or when you add a lot more hp. The percentage difference between dynos is not necessarily a static thing. We have seen lot's of tuners come to this dyno, including PDX. None have made more power through tuning.

canosardines, you're throwing out red herrings... people are just idiots on these forums with the whole inter-dyno comparisons. You can't compare dynos period. Trust me if you think your pump gas dyno is making more hp than Mark's 100 octane setup, really think again. Gruppe-s dyno is more consistent than others because they don't SAE correct like some of the ridiculous numbers others have posted. Baselines really don't tell the difference in how hp is measured throughout the whole curve or when you add a lot more hp. The percentage difference between dynos is not necessarily a static thing. We have seen lot's of tuners come to this dyno, including PDX. None have made more power through tuning.

Not to mention all stock STI's do not always read exactly the same stock even on the same dyno, so variations between the hp numbers is normal. Mine dynoed around 210 on a totally different Mustang that has also had stock STI's dyno as high as 230. The high number was from someone who lives at high elevation and dynoed immediately after arriving at the dyno. Humidity, heat, etc can all affect the whp number. Mark is correct - a dyno is a tuning tool.

Where has it been said 205-245??? Also what SAE correction?

As for the inconsistency remark that made me laugh.

Your dyno is so inconsistent... :lol: :lol: :lol: